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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation finds its smallest SNP lead over LAB in Scotland

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited February 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation finds its smallest SNP lead over LAB in Scotland since the IndyRef

SNP lead over LAB in Scotland drops again according to latest Survation/ D Record poll pic.twitter.com/DUrUF48btF

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Comments

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited February 2015
    First? Like SNP
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    How big are the Losesss?
  • Ouch

    Despite the unpopularity of the Tories, Scots would rather have David Cameron in the top job than Miliband.

    Nineteen per cent think Miliband would make the best Prime Minister, compared to 23 per cent for Cameron, six per cent for UKIP’s Nigel Farage and five per cent for Nick Clegg.

    Even among Labour supporters, only 46 per cent think Miliband would be the best PM.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited February 2015

    How big are the Losesss?

    If our results were repeated in the actual vote, the SNP would win 47 seats and Labour 10.

    The Lib Dems would lose all but one of their 11 Scots MPs and the Tories would keep their solitary Scottish MP.

    So by my reckoning

    Lab minus 31, SNP plus 41, LD minus 10, Con no change
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited February 2015
    The trend is your friend...
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    The headline is bizarre. This just confirms what we've seen in every other Scotland poll - there are no changes beyond MoE between the same companies polls since the start of Novembver.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,193
    murali_s said:

    The trend is your friend...

    Labour ahead by polling day!
  • Looking at Mike's graph, that's a 3.5% swing over the last two months.

    If that maintains, Labour will only be beaten not smashed come May.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I will never, NEVER understand why so many Labour commentators thought Jim Murphy was the Scottish party's saviour.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Lab Scottish recovery

    Lab most seats 2.42 Betfair
  • Dair said:

    The headline is bizarre. This just confirms what we've seen in every other Scotland poll - there are no changes beyond MoE between the same companies polls since the start of Novembver.

    That is why I show the trend chart. Each step maybe MOE but it is in one direction.



  • Electoral Calculus

    SNP 47 Seats
    Labour 12 seats
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,025
    Scottish Labour only 17 (!) points behind. Changed days.

    If Jim Murphy has any sense Ed will not be allowed over the border in the election. The man is an embarrassment.
  • Labour was born in Scotland and it's going to die there.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2015
    DavidL said:

    Scottish Labour only 17 (!) points behind. Changed days.

    If Jim Murphy has any sense Ed will not be allowed over the border in the election. The man is an embarrassment.

    Murphy doesn't exactly seem to be going down a storm either, though. To have negative personal ratings in your first couple of months is pretty atrocious -- even Ed had semi-respectable ratings during his "honeymoon"!
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited February 2015
    Danny565 said:

    I will never, NEVER understand why so many Labour commentators thought Jim Murphy was the Scottish party's saviour.

    Jim Murphy is a good man and has a tough row to hoe, but let's just see how it ends.
  • DavidL said:

    Scottish Labour only 17 (!) points behind. Changed days.

    If Jim Murphy has any sense Ed will not be allowed over the border in the election. The man is an embarrassment.

    Did you see the article linked to on the previous thread?

    URL gives you an idea

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11413557/Scottish-Labour-MPs-threaten-to-bar-Ed-Miliband-from-campaigning-in-their-seats.html
  • Don't you need three polls to call it a "trend"? (One's an accident, Two's a pattern, Three's a trend.)

    The rounded numbers flatter Labour a bit - to one decimal place the gap is 17.7%.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )
  • Damian has written a piece for the Record

    Scottish results could cost Ed Miliband chance to form UK Government, according to new poll

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-results-could-cost-ed-5187607
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Scots love MT.

    No MT riots in Scotland
  • That's the second pollster in the last few days to do a piece saying Scotland could stop Ed becoming PM.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    JamesMo said:

    Don't you need three polls to call it a "trend"? (One's an accident, Two's a pattern, Three's a trend.)

    The rounded numbers flatter Labour a bit - to one decimal place the gap is 17.7%.

    Labour on .5 ending, SNP on .3 ending so the lead is 18%, not 17%.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    I don't know why they don't include Labour minority in the preferred government question. I want to see if SNP voters would prefer supply and demand or a coalition.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Ed Miliband is leading Labour to a vote-share and seats-won revival comparable to Hague in 2001.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    chestnut said:

    Ed Miliband is leading Labour to a vote-share and seats-won revival comparable to Hague in 2001.

    Leading?
  • chestnut said:

    Ed Miliband is leading Labour to a vote-share and seats-won revival comparable to Hague in 2001.


    EdM will underperform Brown handily, that's quite clear to me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    Danny565 Well when Murphy took over the SNP's lead was over 20%, it has now fallen to 17%
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    The headline is bizarre. This just confirms what we've seen in every other Scotland poll - there are no changes beyond MoE between the same companies polls since the start of Novembver.

    That is why I show the trend chart. Each step maybe MOE but it is in one direction.
    There is no company showing anything beyond MoE.

    Yougov - 43/47/48 vs 27/27/27
    Ipsos MORI - 52/52 vs 23/24
    Survation 46/48/46/45 vs 24/24/26/28

    Panelbase obviously has the problem with the misleading question sequence and TNS and ICM only have one poll each.

    I don't see any positive for Labour here and I really don't see a justification for the headline.
  • There seems to have been a small movement back to Labour. Whether that predates the constituency polls by Lord Ashcroft is unclear.

    Labour supporters will be minimally encouraged.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited February 2015
    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Seems to me since Murphy took over he has sliced through the SNP lead.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Game Over for the Lib Dems.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,580
    edited February 2015
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    The headline is bizarre. This just confirms what we've seen in every other Scotland poll - there are no changes beyond MoE between the same companies polls since the start of Novembver.

    That is why I show the trend chart. Each step maybe MOE but it is in one direction.

    I don't see any positive for Labour here and I really don't see a justification for the headline.
    Give the headline is merely fact, even if it means next to nothing as there are no real positives for Labour to be found in that fact (given the movement is MOE) I don't know what your problem with it could be. Is it the smallest SNP Lead over Lab in Scotland since the IndyRef with Survation or not? If it is not, the headline is indeed inaccurate. If it is the smallest such lead, then the headline is correct and why get antsy over someone possibly interpreting it for more than it is, given the caveats that should be applied to that fact?

    It seems like if people get mad about a headline saying 'Labour lead' if there is a labour lead, because they feel statistically the average of polls show it is a dead heat or something, which may well be appropriate to add, but the headline would still be correct unless it contains a subjective judgement.
  • Hengists_GiftHengists_Gift Posts: 628
    edited February 2015
    Looking at the full data one of the interesting figures is the difference in lead that the SNP has over Labour in the employment sectors (granted the samples are small). In the private sector the SNP has a 12 point lead over Labour. In the public sector the SNP has a 25 point lead.

    With the SNP in charge in Edinburgh I would have thought its going to be hard for Labour to eat into that public sector vote in any major way......
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited February 2015
    @SquareRoot
    Religion and socialism have the same roots and aims, the difference is in the existence or otherwise of a deity.
    The socialists have Marx of course, but that too branches into many different observances and schisms.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    Squareroot Unlike Ed Justin Welby has actually had a senior job in the private sector, for Elf and Enterprise Oil, he is no socialist, but no Thatcherite either. Of course if you want socialism the Greens offer a better avenue!
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Agree with Telegraph front page re Putin.

    Almost as bad as typing agree with Mirror!
  • PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    edited February 2015
    I did warn that SNP always flatter to deceive & SLAB wouldn't do as badly as some polls e.g. Ashcroft. Betting on SLAB disaster is fraught.

    Turning into a 2-horse race Cons vs Lab.

    Meanwhile was interested in something an acquaintance put on fb today. He's v much left-leaning & not sure if he's ever voted tory:

    'Terrible day for us floating voters. Unemployment down again, inflation at record low level, wages rising fastest for 5 years. Hard to hate Tories.
    Still thinking of voting green, but dithering.'
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Toms said:

    Danny565 said:

    I will never, NEVER understand why so many Labour commentators thought Jim Murphy was the Scottish party's saviour.

    Jim Murphy is a good man and has a tough row to hoe, but let's just see how it ends.
    It would certainly be difficult to imagine - their wipe out. But he relies on his success by being anti English, by promising more for Scotland at the expense of the English. Any success he has must be at the inverse ratio of success in England. Even the prospect of a SNP / Labour coalition would be viewed to be at the expense of the English by English voters.

    Labour have been defying gravity in Scotland for too long. They have not deserved their pre-eminence in the first place. We are witnessing their fall, even if it ends up less than predicted. But it is to an even more left wing party. Scots not wanting far-leftwingery will have to get their skates on.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
  • Staying at the Ritz in Madrid for the rest of the week amigos. A few brandies in and the world is good. Buenas noches.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Smarmeron said:

    @SquareRoot
    Religion and socialism have the same roots and aims, the difference is in the existence or otherwise of a deity.
    The socialists have Marx of course, but that too branches into many different observances and schisms.

    I thought religion was invented by elites to get the minions to sacrifice their lives in back-breaking endeavours that they would never in their right minds do unless a deity were proposed. Hardly socialist -rather the opposite.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    Squareroot Unlike Ed Justin Welby has actually had a senior job in the private sector, for Elf and Enterprise Oil, he is no socialist, but no Thatcherite either. Of course if you want socialism the Greens offer a better avenue!

    I know about Welby. These bishops are all fairly well off. I wonder if any of them are tax avoiders?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    If Labour recover just enough to get back 3 Glasgow seats I'll be happy enough ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    Moniker Chestnut Even if Miliband only won 33% and gained 25 seats that would be a gain of 4% since 2001 which would still be better than Hague's gain of 1% and 1 seat. It would be more akin to Howard's gain of 33 seats in 2005
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    It needs less church all round - particularly in arpartheid Romanist schools.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited February 2015

    Looking at the full data one of the interesting figures is the difference in lead that the SNP has over Labour in the employment sectors (granted the samples are small). In the private sector the SNP has a 12 point lead over Labour. In the public sector the SNP has a 25 point lead.

    With the SNP in charge in Edinburgh I would have thought its going to be hard for Labour to eat into that public sector vote in any major way......

    I don't think the 140,000 people who work in NHS Scotland and achieved 95% of people rating their experience as Good or Excellent are going to be very happy with Labour's description of the service they work so hard to deliver successfully.

    BTW, the SNP only recently gained any traction in Edinburgh and that was entirely due to the Liberals and Labour proving themselves unfit for public office. It's still a fresh memory.
  • Pulpstar said:

    If Labour recover just enough to get back 3 Glasgow seats I'll be happy enough ;)

    It depends which three. I'm greedy.
  • HYUFD said:

    Squareroot Unlike Ed Justin Welby has actually had a senior job in the private sector, for Elf and Enterprise Oil, he is no socialist, but no Thatcherite either. Of course if you want socialism the Greens offer a better avenue!

    Guido Fawkes isn't happy http://order-order.com/2015/02/18/top-justin-welby-aide-is-labour-sleeper-agent/
    but its all par for course isn't it?
  • Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    You've got an Established Church, it's called the Church of Scotland. The clue's in the name, wee pal.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    MTimT
    No, it evolved out of a need for humans to co-operate in an ever more complex set of circumstances.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited February 2015
    Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    Indeed I think its time the bishops gave up their seats in the HOL and the Church became disestablished. They can then spout as they wish, but they will lose huge numbers of their congregation (IMHO) if they do.

    The church should minister spiritually.. period.
  • antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Labour recover just enough to get back 3 Glasgow seats I'll be happy enough ;)

    It depends which three. I'm greedy.
    Why do I get the feeling that some of us are going to be so obsessed with Scotland and Glasgow on election?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    You've got an Established Church, it's called the Church of Scotland. The clue's in the name, wee pal.
    No, there is no Established Church in Scotland. The very idea is anathema to both the people and the CoS.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    HYUFD said:

    Moniker Chestnut Even if Miliband only won 33% and gained 25 seats that would be a gain of 4% since 2001 which would still be better than Hague's gain of 1% and 1 seat. It would be more akin to Howard's gain of 33 seats in 2005


    Perhaps Miliband won't do better than 29.7%, with the added inefficiency of many fewer seats per vote due to losses in Scotland?

    If the polls have Labour at 32, it's very possible that he's sub 30 in reality.

    Clicking 'Labour' on the web isn't the same as going to a polling booth.
  • Dair said:

    Dair said:

    The headline is bizarre. This just confirms what we've seen in every other Scotland poll - there are no changes beyond MoE between the same companies polls since the start of Novembver.

    That is why I show the trend chart. Each step maybe MOE but it is in one direction.
    There is no company showing anything beyond MoE.

    Yougov - 43/47/48 vs 27/27/27
    Ipsos MORI - 52/52 vs 23/24
    Survation 46/48/46/45 vs 24/24/26/28

    Panelbase obviously has the problem with the misleading question sequence and TNS and ICM only have one poll each.

    I don't see any positive for Labour here and I really don't see a justification for the headline.

    I suppose it's a teensy bit more credible* than constructing a narrative around the accents of the pollster's interrogators.

    Only a teensy bit mind.


    *tr: slightly less a load of old bollox.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    ....and on....and on....and on....does Basil keep marching, despite the Janaury crossover month, and February pulling away month. Labour in front by 2%
  • YouGov

    Labour lead by two: CON 32%, LAB 34%, LD 8%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Sun_Politics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by two: CON 32%, LAB 34%, LD 8%, UKIP 14%, GRN 6%
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    It needs less church all round - particularly in arpartheid Romanist schools.
    Good luck finding any politician to bring apartheid out into the debate.

    Perhaps the new hegemony will finally allow this nonsense to end. I doubt the SNP will do it before FFA at least, more likely they will long grass it until after Independence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    SquareRoot Welby is a bit of an exception in having industry experience, most bishops started off as priests or academics, like Rowan Williams. The average bishop's salary is £40-60,000
  • The Lord Ashcroft poll out tomorrow should show a 5-5.5% swing to lab as his previous polls were showing similar swings and the com res marginal polling also showed a 4.5% and if it was something different Lord Ashcroft would have dropped a hint.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    That Labour lead, tiny though it is, really is rather stubborn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    TimT True, although religion has also provided charity, soup kitchens, hospitals, schools, great art etc
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot Welby is a bit of an exception in having industry experience, most bishops started off as priests or academics, like Rowan Williams. The average bishop's salary is £40-60,000

    plus all the freebies that go with the job....
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Danny565 said:

    That Labour lead, tiny though it is, really is rather stubborn.

    A PB Hodge defying lead.
  • ....and on....and on....and on....does Basil keep marching, despite the Janaury crossover month, and February pulling away month. Labour in front by 2%

    Either you can type exceptionally quickly or you'd pre-prepared this post to have been able to outpace the cut and paste efforts of TSE & Scott_P
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    ....and on....and on....and on....does Basil keep marching, despite the Janaury crossover month, and February pulling away month. Labour in front by 2%

    Either you can type exceptionally quickly or you'd pre-prepared this post to have been able to outpace the cut and paste efforts of TSE & Scott_P
    Fast fingers
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Maxwell1 said:

    The Lord Ashcroft poll out tomorrow should show a 5-5.5% swing to lab as his previous polls were showing similar swings and the com res marginal polling also showed a 4.5% and if it was something different Lord Ashcroft would have dropped a hint.

    I'd push the boat out and say 6%.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot Welby is a bit of an exception in having industry experience, most bishops started off as priests or academics, like Rowan Williams. The average bishop's salary is £40-60,000

    pS

    I cannot begin to explain how irked I am by the bishops letter interfering in political matters.
    Their protestations of impartiality are a clear case of dissembling.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Labour recover just enough to get back 3 Glasgow seats I'll be happy enough ;)

    It depends which three. I'm greedy.
    Why do I get the feeling that some of us are going to be so obsessed with Scotland and Glasgow on election?
    Have you seen my book ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2015

    I did warn that SNP always flatter to deceive & SLAB wouldn't do as badly as some polls e.g. Ashcroft. Betting on SLAB disaster is fraught.

    Turning into a 2-horse race Cons vs Lab.

    Meanwhile was interested in something an acquaintance put on fb today. He's v much left-leaning & not sure if he's ever voted tory:

    'Terrible day for us floating voters. Unemployment down again, inflation at record low level, wages rising fastest for 5 years. Hard to hate Tories.
    Still thinking of voting green, but dithering.'

    'Turning into a 2-horse race Cons vs Lab"

    As opposed to the wide open heat it's been for the last century?
  • Pulpstar said:

    antifrank said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Labour recover just enough to get back 3 Glasgow seats I'll be happy enough ;)

    It depends which three. I'm greedy.
    Why do I get the feeling that some of us are going to be so obsessed with Scotland and Glasgow on election?
    Have you seen my book ?
    I have, you sent it to Antifrank and I
  • HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot Welby is a bit of an exception in having industry experience, most bishops started off as priests or academics, like Rowan Williams. The average bishop's salary is £40-60,000

    plus all the freebies that go with the job....
    Presumably Welby also benefitted from the truly gargantuan bonus payments payable by his former employers BP. Doubtless he can afford to be very, very generous indeed to deserving causes.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    Cross over!

    Albeit Green/Lib Dem
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Smarmeron said:

    @SquareRoot
    Religion and socialism have the same roots and aims, the difference is in the existence or otherwise of a deity.
    The socialists have Marx of course, but that too branches into many different observances and schisms.

    Socialism is a religion.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    edited February 2015
    SquareRoot You get to live in the Bishop's Palace for a few years, but you do not get to keep it but hand it over to your successor

    Purseybear Par for the course with the Anglican Church, but Welby is far less of a leftie than Williams or Runcie were, albeit maybe more so than Carey
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    HYUFD said:

    SquareRoot You get to live in the Bishop's Palace for a few years, but you do not get to keep it but hand it over to your successor

    Purseybear Par for the course with the Anglican Church, but Welby is far less of a leftie than Williams or Runcie were, albeit maybe more so than Carey

    I know all that BUT... given that.. what's the taxable benefit in real terms and do they pay the real rate of tax on it, or do they have some kind of dodge to avoid tax the real benefit?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Flightpath
    By some definitions I suppose it is.
    But the only alternative to strive for without it, is money and power, the priests already have first dibs on god.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    If Labour are tanking in Scotland yet somehow Miliband manages more votes than Dave... that is horrific for Conservative seat prospects in E&W. Utterly awful.
  • Utterly depressing goings on at the Telegraph. One of the nation's great papers has sold its soul to the Devil.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    chestnut The polls are far more accurate now than 1992 and due to LD defections to Labour I doubt he will fall below 31-32%
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    I sense the Lib Dem firming up towards polling day to around a very solid 9%.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    Some interesting focus groups on Newsnight now
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    HYUFD said:

    Some interesting focus groups on Newsnight now

    @MrHarryCole: Newsnight focus group on Miliband: "I don't trust him, I don't like him"
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Smarmeron said:

    @SquareRoot
    Religion and socialism have the same roots and aims, the difference is in the existence or otherwise of a deity.
    The socialists have Marx of course, but that too branches into many different observances and schisms.

    Socialism is a religion.
    Much as Satanism is.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Utterly depressing goings on at the Telegraph. One of the nation's great papers has sold its soul to the Devil.

    It ceased to be a great paper several years ago, in my opinion.
  • TGOHF said:

    Dair said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Danny565
    Desperation mainly, that and an inability for the Labour party to remember what "socialism" means.
    (In truth, few in the SNP grasp it either, but it is a handy vehicle for them to ride )

    Perhaps Ed should be replaced by the Archbishop of Canterbury. He knows what socialism is as do the rest of his lefty mates in the archbishopocracy./
    I'm sure Scotland no more wants an Established church today (especially an Anglican one) than it did in 1633 when it kicked off the War of the Three Kingdoms.
    It needs less church all round - particularly in arpartheid Romanist schools.
    Correct. The entire concept of the state funding schools to brainwash separatism into children is premier league bonkers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    TGOHF One said he looked like he got out of bed the wrong side and was too hesitant

    A few for the Tories One Welsh lady was Labour another was going Green, angry at Clegg's betrayal and Blair for abandoning socialism, a black lady seemed to like UKIP though another mistook Farage as leader of the UK

    More to come over the campaign
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    SR I imagine the Church pays for council tax etc
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    If Labour are tanking in Scotland yet somehow Miliband manages more votes than Dave... that is horrific for Conservative seat prospects in E&W. Utterly awful.

    Did you reflect this awfulness in your competition entry earlier? Oh no, I see in fact you have the Tories winning more seats than Labour
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Was that Newsnight thing actors, or real focus groups?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,975
    Yet more evidence of the Telegraphs decline. They apparently interviewed Scottsh Labour MP's with small majorities who said they were facing wipe out thanks to Miliband. Frankly I have good reason to suppose the story was either exaggerated or possibly invented. No one was mentioned by name apparently because they wanted to remain anonymous
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411

    Pulpstar said:

    If Labour are tanking in Scotland yet somehow Miliband manages more votes than Dave... that is horrific for Conservative seat prospects in E&W. Utterly awful.

    Did you reflect this awfulness in your competition entry earlier?
    ICM and IPSOS showing the Conservatives both on 38% in England was reflected in there too.

    Spoke to my Dad today, Nuneaton & Bedworth is a key defence for the Conservatives. If this poll occurs on election day, Warwick & Leamington could be in trouble too.
  • philiph said:

    Utterly depressing goings on at the Telegraph. One of the nation's great papers has sold its soul to the Devil.

    It ceased to be a great paper several years ago, in my opinion.
    Perhaps.

    I rate Max Hastings book – Editor. I loved his line that the Telegraph, Guardian and Times try their level best to ensure their stories are based in fact, whereas those in the Sun, Star and Mirror are often – voluntarily – works of sheer fiction.

    But when you hear that the Telegraph upgraded a children's film from the actual reviewer's two stars to the commercial team's preferred three, you wonder whether times may have changed...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,896
    Danny565 Meant to be real families, could just as well be actors!
  • Danny565 said:

    Was that Newsnight thing actors, or real focus groups?

    Real people playing actors
This discussion has been closed.