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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As pollsters start to look at tacticals Marf gives her take

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited February 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As pollsters start to look at tacticals Marf gives her take.

Politicalbetting's Marf on the polling pic.twitter.com/55nJE8S3JT

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    first?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038
    Damn you!
  • Great cartoon!
  • I hate this cartoon, Marf! It's really good :)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    There are issues with the climate change data - from the location and number of reporting stations, to the problems with satellite sensors - the 500 degree water surface temperature measurement at Egg Harbor by satellite springs to mind - to the 'adjustments' to data, that raise enough red flags to say it's time to establish more rigorous requirements and to start gathering data that everyone can agree are accurate.

    BUT - absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. Just because we don't have enough untainted data doesn't mean that it isn't out there.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    RobD said:

    Damn you!

    ain't I a stinker? :-)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    edited February 2015
    @TGOHF I think you are missing the point re BJESUS

    The only significant movement in 8 months is from LAB to SNP since that now assumes Lab lose most of Scottish seats it will not form a trend.

    CON unmoved for 8 months.

    Therefore EICIPM (Betfair 2.36) looks good to me
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Fantastic cartoon MARF
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SamCoatesTimes: Ooop - turns out Ukip's newest supporter was de-selected last week as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last http://t.co/mVzkam8DJ4
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Does anyone have links to the IPSOS and ICM tables ?

    Their websites are crap for finding polling info (Both of them)

    I reckon there is a reconciliation of sorts that will be possible.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Wow interesting.

    I wonder if anyone blinks?
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Looks a good price.

    I think Merkel will blink but surely todays news means GREXIT will shorten to enable you a profit
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,123
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone have links to the IPSOS and ICM tables ?

    Their websites are crap for finding polling info (Both of them)

    I reckon there is a reconciliation of sorts that will be possible.

    Both can be found in the Wikipedia list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election

    http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2015_feb_guardian.pdf

    https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/feb2015web_VI_THR_FINAL.pdf
  • Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Where are you getting the odds on Greece leaving or have they been pulled now?

    I seem to remember Betfair used to offer them.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited February 2015

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    I'm merely a spectator from afar - I don't have a dog in the fight.

    It affects me about as much as A-Rod and the Yankees.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Scott_P said:

    @SamCoatesTimes: Ooop - turns out Ukip's newest supporter was de-selected last week as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last http://t.co/mVzkam8DJ4

    What a surprise. The poor lady should have realised that once Ms Buggins has had her turn, thats it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Where are you getting the odds on Greece leaving or have they been pulled now?

    I seem to remember Betfair used to offer them.
    Yep Betfair
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    If EICIPM on 8/5/15 my work is done if not i will reappear as Bob A Fret 999999!
  • @TGOHF I think you are missing the point re BJESUS

    The only significant movement in 8 months is from LAB to SNP since that now assumes Lab lose most of Scottish seats it will not form a trend.

    CON unmoved for 8 months.

    Therefore EICIPM (Betfair 2.36) looks good to me

    I don't remember you running a BJesus on the ICM poll yesterday.

    Did I miss it?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    LOL Yeo

    However – it seems there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Harriet Yeo was removed as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last week, after being accused of non-attendance at council meetings and a failure undertake council casework.

    Last night she was deselected as a candidate for the 2015 local elections – and left the Labour Party the next day.
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Telegraph really is a in right old state..it has all been bubbling under the surface for months, but at some point it is all going to go nuclear.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2015
    Pulpstar said:

    MP_SE said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Where are you getting the odds on Greece leaving or have they been pulled now?

    I seem to remember Betfair used to offer them.
    Yep Betfair
    Cheers. I see they are favouring more can kicking at the moment. Current odds of no exit arn't tempting enough for me.

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
    I have given up waiting for them to leave. I thought they would years ago and have held on.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    ICM looks like a low outlier in Scotland for Labour to me... raw numbers are too low...

    ICM England
    38% CON
    34% LAB

    Ipsos England
    38% Con
    37% Lab
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Baxter 38% Conservative, 35.5% Labour for England.
  • Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    The figures were interpreted 'rather optimistically' as it was always a political project. Same with a number of the other southern EU countries. Greece was just the most egregious example.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Speaking of Yeo, how is the Tories' newest MEP doing?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Telegraph really is a in right old state..it has all been bubbling under the surface for months, but at some point it is all going to go nuclear.
    Whatever you might have thought of the previous owner of the DT, it was still a decent paper, after the Barclay Brothers took over it went downhill with a following wind.
    I haven't bought a Daily Telegraph for years.
  • Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    The figures were interpreted 'rather optimistically' as it was always a political project. Same with a number of the other southern EU countries. Greece was just the most egregious example.

    Wonder if anybody has found all those millions of olive tress we funded that appear to be as invisible as George Osborne the day any bad economic news is announced.
  • LOL Yeo

    However – it seems there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Harriet Yeo was removed as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last week, after being accused of non-attendance at council meetings and a failure undertake council casework.

    Last night she was deselected as a candidate for the 2015 local elections – and left the Labour Party the next day.

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    If EICIPM on 8/5/15 my work is done if not i will reappear as Bob A Fret 999999!
    Do you see it as your work to big him up on here through your forecasts?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Tim_B said:

    There are issues with the climate change data - from the location and number of reporting stations, to the problems with satellite sensors - the 500 degree water surface temperature measurement at Egg Harbor by satellite springs to mind - to the 'adjustments' to data, that raise enough red flags to say it's time to establish more rigorous requirements and to start gathering data that everyone can agree are accurate.

    BUT - absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. Just because we don't have enough untainted data doesn't mean that it isn't out there.

    BEST was that attempt to "start gathering data that everyone can agree are accurate." but once it came back with evidence that global warming was happening suddenly all the people from the "Global Warming is not happening camp" disowned it despite having spent the previous year hyping up it's results.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
    The capacity for politicians to fudge it the last minute when it comes to Europe draws me to the same conclusion.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited February 2015
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    Blankslatism, the new European man can be forged from anyone, they don't even have to be European. Human differences do not exist, Greeks would become Germans.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
    Take the 2-5 on Greece remaining in the Eurozone.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    edited February 2015
    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    Not to be mixed up with EICINPM

    Ed Is Crap Is Not Prime Minister - Which we'll be hearing more and more of over the next few weeks.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Where can we read Pete's rant Re. The Tele?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    LOL Yeo

    However – it seems there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Harriet Yeo was removed as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last week, after being accused of non-attendance at council meetings and a failure undertake council casework.

    Last night she was deselected as a candidate for the 2015 local elections – and left the Labour Party the next day.

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    If EICIPM on 8/5/15 my work is done if not i will reappear as Bob A Fret 999999!
    Do you see it as your work to big him up on here through your forecasts?
    No i know he is a huge drag on LAB.

    I think he is pretty Crap but think the polls show he is marginally favorite to be PM
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Where can we read Pete's rant Re. The Tele?
    Guido has it
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    Goldman Sachs arranged some novel financial products to move debt off balance sheet via various swap contracts.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Ed is PM by my reckoning if we end up with that ICM in May.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    FalseFlag said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    Blankslatism, the new European man can be forged from anyone, they don't even have to be European. Human differences do not exist, Greeks would become Germans.
    I heard that the EU was hoping to enter membership talks with Bangladesh. Due to the EU being their largest export market it makes perfect sense for them to join.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Where can we read Pete's rant Re. The Tele?
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegraph
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    ICM presents a 3.75% swing to Labour in England, Ipsos would mean a 5.25% swing to Labour in England.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904
    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    Alistair said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    Goldman Sachs arranged some novel financial products to move debt off balance sheet via various swap contracts.
    Well, no question of thinking pure thoughts there then!

    Couldn’t a really bright lawyer find some reason for Goldman Sachs to be sued, by both Greece and the ECB, thereby squaring the circle. The compensation would be awesome.
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
    Interesting that Oborne complains about the rise of online shares as a measure of significance, something pb's own SeanT has previously addressed from a different angle.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    edited February 2015
    FalseFlag said:

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    How did Greece get into the eurozone in the first place? It's been a basket case for years. Was it a case of ignore the truth, think pure thoughts and onward to ever closer union?
    Blankslatism, the new European man can be forged from anyone, they don't even have to be European. Human differences do not exist, Greeks would become Germans.
    I thought it was Turks who were becoming Germans!
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited February 2015
    Wonder how long it will be before Labour councils start confiscating children of UKIP members and having them adopted, in the true spirit of Mrs Honecker

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2957368/Judge-slams-social-engineering-council-took-baby-away-father-ties-racist-EDL-teenage-sex-caution.html

    Gets more and more like East Germany in this country:

    "More than 2,000 Germans are still searching for family members lost as a result of as a result of the forced adoption policies instigated by Margot Honecker.

    Under the policy, the children of dissidents and East Germans who attempted to flee to the West were forcibly and permanently separated from their parents. Many were placed in foster homes or state adoption institutions, or with the families of childless Communist party activists.

    Many affected children and parents never saw each other again"


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dictators-wife-defiant-over-forced-adoptions-1817710.html

    Clearly forced adoption has longstanding socialist credentials.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Floater said:
    I think the Telegraph is taking tremendous artistic license with the word "Top" in the Headlines !
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Telegraph really is a in right old state..it has all been bubbling under the surface for months, but at some point it is all going to go nuclear.
    Whatever you might have thought of the previous owner of the DT, it was still a decent paper, after the Barclay Brothers took over it went downhill with a following wind.
    I haven't bought a Daily Telegraph for years.
    Correct. But it started earlier when after Thatcher won her landslide and Labour were in disarray they ran an Editorial I well remember claiming they would be the 'opposition' from now on.

    The Barclay Bros of course with their reputation have every incentive to see weak national government. But really to be fair the them, although they do not deserve it, every media organisation in the country has every incentive to undermine the workings of government since they all have zero reputation for morality themselves.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904
    Pulpstar said:

    Floater said:
    I think the Telegraph is taking tremendous artistic license with the word "Top" in the Headlines !
    Yep - quite right. Interesting how the NEC has essentially disappeared. In the days of Benn and Heffer that was an important post.
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
    He's right about sub-editors though.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    The Telegraph is liable to find that it is the story, on all the other newspapers.
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/feb/17/peter-oborne-telegraph-hsbc-coverage-fraud-readers
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    Since my opinion of EU affairs is so low that I compare them with Looney Toons cartoons, the correct clip for the Greece vs Eurozone surrealist situation is close to this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgPq8Lc7Ns
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,514
    edited February 2015
    Dale Vince making a bit of a prat of himself on C4 news at the moment. Doesn't know what interest rate he took a £3 million loan, might be 0%, might be just below the market rate, no idea, no idea what tax implications of that is, etc.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
    Take the 2-5 on Greece remaining in the Eurozone.
    Thanks, but I don't fancy betting on it either way.
  • LOL Yeo

    However – it seems there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Harriet Yeo was removed as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last week, after being accused of non-attendance at council meetings and a failure undertake council casework.

    Last night she was deselected as a candidate for the 2015 local elections – and left the Labour Party the next day.

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    If EICIPM on 8/5/15 my work is done if not i will reappear as Bob A Fret 999999!
    Do you see it as your work to big him up on here through your forecasts?
    No i know he is a huge drag on LAB.

    I think he is pretty Crap but think the polls show he is marginally favorite to be PM
    Fair enough, but yesterday's ICM didn't. You may need a different moniker as the election approaches.

    PS. It'd be nice to see your Bjesus data in a graph, rather than a giant data table. Easier to digest too.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
    He's right about sub-editors though.
    Well you could knock me over with a feather I'm so surprised at that. Newspapers employ people who are thick! Who'd a thunk it.
    Journalists? I think we can count the good ones on the fingers of one hand. Buit we do not get 'journalists' any more do we? We get 'commentators'.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904
    Speedy said:

    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    Since my opinion of EU affairs is so low that I compare them with Looney Toons cartoons, the correct clip for the Greece vs Eurozone surrealist situation is close to this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgPq8Lc7Ns
    I think you've nailed it. (I do rather wonder as to how you knew of such a singularly appropriate clip though!)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,384
    edited February 2015

    GIN1138 said:

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Where can we read Pete's rant Re. The Tele?
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegraph
    Thanks. :D

    Looks like he's off to The Guardian with Matt D'Ancona then? :D

  • Sigh....ITV have got rid of Chiles, but we still have Keane, Scholes and Dixon..yawn....That been said, next year we have the likes of Owen's amazing commentary to look forward.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MTimT said:

    Greece. This does not bode well for a deal: "Greece's government has called for a vote to scrap its austerity programme on Friday, the same day that the eurozone has declared a deadline for it to seek an extension to its bailout." (from the Beeb)

    Hope so - on Greece at 9-2 to leave the eurozone this year
    Those odds look about right to me.

    I'll believe Greece is leaving the Euro when I see it.
    The capacity for politicians to fudge it the last minute when it comes to Europe draws me to the same conclusion.
    They will fudge it as long as they believe in it.
    When they stop believing in Europe, then they will try to make excuses to get out, instead of staying in.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Thanks, but I don't fancy betting on it either way.

    To be quite honest, I don;t think Tsipras can come up with an agreement that would placate both his electorate and his creditors at the same time.

    Essentially Tsipras was elected on a giant misrepresentation of what was achievable for Greece. The people of that country are going to find that out either via
    1. business as usual
    or
    2. getting paid in toilet paper as opposed to euros when the cash runs out
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    LOL Yeo

    However – it seems there’s more to this story than meets the eye. Harriet Yeo was removed as Labour Group Leader of Ashford Council last week, after being accused of non-attendance at council meetings and a failure undertake council casework.

    Last night she was deselected as a candidate for the 2015 local elections – and left the Labour Party the next day.

    Tim_B said:

    MTimT said:

    Tim_B said:

    I have to ask - what does EICIPM mean?

    Ed is crap is Prime Minister
    I guessed E was Ed and PM was prime minister - it was the rest I didn't get. Obviously I didn't miss much...
    Oh I don't know. It could be one of the most important acronyms of the year come 8th May. Or then again.
    If EICIPM on 8/5/15 my work is done if not i will reappear as Bob A Fret 999999!
    Do you see it as your work to big him up on here through your forecasts?
    No i know he is a huge drag on LAB.

    I think he is pretty Crap but think the polls show he is marginally favorite to be PM
    Fair enough, but yesterday's ICM didn't. You may need a different moniker as the election approaches.

    PS. It'd be nice to see your Bjesus data in a graph, rather than a giant data table. Easier to digest too.
    No - If we end up with that ICM then Ed becomes the Prime Minister... or at least Dave is out the job. The SNP will end up with every last seat in Scotland too. So the all 3 leaders out before year end is probably a winner too.
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
    He's right about sub-editors though.
    Well you could knock me over with a feather I'm so surprised at that. Newspapers employ people who are thick! Who'd a thunk it.
    Journalists? I think we can count the good ones on the fingers of one hand. Buit we do not get 'journalists' any more do we? We get 'commentators'.
    It's not about being thick or otherwise, It's about a separate pair of trained eyes who correct things. Journos have all sorts of other skills.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    Since my opinion of EU affairs is so low that I compare them with Looney Toons cartoons, the correct clip for the Greece vs Eurozone surrealist situation is close to this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgPq8Lc7Ns
    I think you've nailed it. (I do rather wonder as to how you knew of such a singularly appropriate clip though!)
    It's simple, I tried to find youtube clips of playing chicken with trains.
    I also factored in that the EU is a collection of silly fools, madmen, absurd bureaucrats, crooks, liars and other colourful characters that fit the description that history is made by the psychic illnesses of leaders. Essentially people fit to be a cartoon.

    Add those 2 together and the result was that.

    Though I don't know which character is Tsipras and which is Merkel.
  • Sigh....ITV have got rid of Chiles, but we still have Keane, Scholes and Dixon..yawn....That been said, next year we have the likes of Owen's amazing commentary to look forward.

    Dixon is good and the other two won't pull punches, all much better than useless Jamie Redknapp.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Ed is PM by my reckoning if we end up with that ICM in May.

    Almost certainly not. If the Tories have a 4% national UK lead they will be well ahead on seats, and close to 300 of them.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Speedy said:

    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    Since my opinion of EU affairs is so low that I compare them with Looney Toons cartoons, the correct clip for the Greece vs Eurozone surrealist situation is close to this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgPq8Lc7Ns
    Aside from the clip itself, it's funny that they thought nothing then of putting guns in a young kids' cartoon. Can't see it happening today.

    Re papers, of course it's regrettable. Just like airlines, people prefer cheap journalism and let quality go hang. But there are many more side-effects to losing good newspapers than losing high-fare airlines.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited February 2015
    Rather strange that none of the AGW experts on PB can tell us how many Islands have been overwhelmed by the rising waters and also tell us how near is the extinction of the Polar Bears.
    Both of these were the hot topics in the propaganda war just a short while ago...has it all gone terribly wrong....no Islands submerged and a rise in the population of the bears..perhaps.
  • Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Is Oborne complaining that the Telegraph is not criticising Cameron and the tory party enough? He will have a tough time trying to make that stick.
    The Telegraph is indeed rubbish as are the Barclay Bros, but so is Oborne and the never ending set of chips on his shoulder. Not least Israel.
    He's right about sub-editors though.
    Well you could knock me over with a feather I'm so surprised at that. Newspapers employ people who are thick! Who'd a thunk it.
    Journalists? I think we can count the good ones on the fingers of one hand. Buit we do not get 'journalists' any more do we? We get 'commentators'.
    At University I shared a house with Nigel Morris who is the Deputy Political Editor of the Independent. We remain friends not least because of our shared love of West Ham football club. He remains one of the most intelligent people I have ever met even if we do not always agree on politics.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,904
    Speedy said:

    Omnium said:

    Speedy said:

    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    Since my opinion of EU affairs is so low that I compare them with Looney Toons cartoons, the correct clip for the Greece vs Eurozone surrealist situation is close to this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJgPq8Lc7Ns
    I think you've nailed it. (I do rather wonder as to how you knew of such a singularly appropriate clip though!)
    It's simple, I tried to find youtube clips of playing chicken with trains.
    I also factored in that the EU is a collection of silly fools, madmen, absurd bureaucrats, crooks, liars and other colourful characters that fit the description that history is made by the psychic illnesses of leaders. Essentially people fit to be a cartoon.

    Add those 2 together and the result was that.

    Though I don't know which character is Tsipras and which is Merkel.
    Sort of disappointed that you're not a contender to have Looney Toons as your Mastermind specialist subject. Some of the cartoons that I watched as a child will stay with me forever - who can forget Muttley's snigger.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited February 2015
    Is Peter Oborne alleging that the Telegraph owners (Barclay brothers) were censuring their newspaper stories for their own financial interest, or is it just me after reading his article?
    Probably I'll read about it in the next Private Eye.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
  • Pulpstar said:

    Ed is PM by my reckoning if we end up with that ICM in May.

    Almost certainly not. If the Tories have a 4% national UK lead they will be well ahead on seats, and close to 300 of them.
    How? Even if they lose half their Scottish seats the Tories would be hard pressed to top 300 on seats. Remember they are going to struggle to have net gains of more than 10 off the LDs and they are more vulnerable to UKIP than. LAB

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    @MikeSmithson WIll the Lib Dems have an appetite for Gov't if they end up on 28 seats ?

    Genuine question.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    Omnium said:

    The Greek situation is becoming really quite interesting. It seems to me that they're playing chicken with a freight train whilst driving a Reliant Robin, but good luck to them if they manage it.

    The problem of course is that if they do then every other crap economy will try the same trick.

    I agree that the odds are probably about right, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Greece finds itself out despite no one really wanting that.

    I think the new word is Grexident covering that scenario which I agree is increasingly likely.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    @MikeSmithson WIll the Lib Dems have an appetite for Gov't if they end up on 28 seats ?

    Genuine question.

    I think I can answer that question, it all depends if Clegg survives.
    I'm sure that if Clegg loses, it will be such a historic moment that the lesson for the next LD leaders will be "if I go into a coalition it might cost my seat".
  • Pulpstar said:

    Ed is PM by my reckoning if we end up with that ICM in May.

    Almost certainly not. If the Tories have a 4% national UK lead they will be well ahead on seats, and close to 300 of them.
    How? Even if they lose half their Scottish seats the Tories would be hard pressed to top 300 on seats. Remember they are going to struggle to have net gains of more than 10 off the LDs and they are more vulnerable to UKIP than. LAB
    What about the Peter Kellner analysis on Con and Lab?
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Interesting Egypt bombed IS in Libya. Putin recently visited, clearly the Egyptian re-alignment with the Iranian-Russian axis and away from the US-Israeli-Saudi axis of evil is already bearing fruit.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    England is what's going to matter the most in the next GE when it comes down to who is next PM:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010_(England)

    Conservative 39.6%,
    Labour 28.1%

    Last GE.

    The ICM has 38 vs 34, a 3.75% swing to Labour.

    Ipsos was 38 vs 37

    So despite the very different headline numbers, the England subdata is not too bad for Labour. And its a statistically significant subset.
  • Pulpstar said:

    England is what's going to matter the most in the next GE when it comes down to who is next PM:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010_(England)

    Conservative 39.6%,
    Labour 28.1%

    Last GE.

    The ICM has 38 vs 34, a 3.75% swing to Labour.

    Ipsos was 38 vs 37

    So despite the very different headline numbers, the England subdata is not too bad for Labour. And its a statistically significant subset.

    But that's assuming UNS in England.

    Which certainly wont happen.

    But how the various regions and demographics within England will differ from UNS and consequently the electoral effect is far from certain.

    By contrast in 2010 it was obvious, well obvious to everyone but the Cameroons, that there was going to be a much bigger swing to the Conservatives in wwc areas than there would be in the cities.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Speedy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    @MikeSmithson WIll the Lib Dems have an appetite for Gov't if they end up on 28 seats ?

    Genuine question.

    I think I can answer that question, it all depends if Clegg survives.
    I'm sure that if Clegg loses, it will be such a historic moment that the lesson for the next LD leaders will be "if I go into a coalition it might cost my seat".
    If Clegg goes, surely a period of "reflection" is needed, and the Lib Dems abstein on ANY confidence motion ?

    They will be the 4th biggest party... will the Nats be happy to only have supply and confidence whilst the Lib Dems have seats in Gov't... probably not. Perhaps SNP-LD-LAB coalition can be ruled out too as ... to crowded . Therefore the only party that the Lib Dems will in effect aid are the Conservatives. And that depends on Clegg holding his seat.

    So to conclude why the hell are the Conservatives even putting up a candidate in Hallam :D ?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    England is what's going to matter the most in the next GE when it comes down to who is next PM:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010_(England)

    Conservative 39.6%,
    Labour 28.1%

    Last GE.

    The ICM has 38 vs 34, a 3.75% swing to Labour.

    Ipsos was 38 vs 37

    So despite the very different headline numbers, the England subdata is not too bad for Labour. And its a statistically significant subset.

    Yes. Scotland has 59 seats. England has 533 seats.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited February 2015
    FalseFlag said:

    Interesting Egypt bombed IS in Libya. Putin recently visited, clearly the Egyptian re-alignment with the Iranian-Russian axis and away from the US-Israeli-Saudi axis of evil is already bearing fruit.

    Al-Sisi the murderer is Washington's man. The US always liked dictators as long as they were "their" dictators. Saddam and Gaddafi should have heeded that advice. How many monarchies have been toppled ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited February 2015
    Was in Hammersmith at a gig last night - has anywhere ever had such a high concentration of estate agents ?!

    Had a good laugh at the rental prices.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,831
    surbiton said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Interesting Egypt bombed IS in Libya. Putin recently visited, clearly the Egyptian re-alignment with the Iranian-Russian axis and away from the US-Israeli-Saudi axis of evil is already bearing fruit.

    Al-Sisi the murderer is Washington's man. The US always liked dictators as long as they were "their" dictators. Saddam and Gaddafi should have heeded that advice. How many monarchies have been toppled ?
    I don't think he really is.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    surbiton said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Interesting Egypt bombed IS in Libya. Putin recently visited, clearly the Egyptian re-alignment with the Iranian-Russian axis and away from the US-Israeli-Saudi axis of evil is already bearing fruit.

    Al-Sisi the murderer is Washington's man. The US always liked dictators as long as they were "their" dictators. Saddam and Gaddafi should have heeded that advice. How many monarchies have been toppled ?
    We shall see but a lot of business was done by Sisi and Putin.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited February 2015
    surbiton said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Interesting Egypt bombed IS in Libya. Putin recently visited, clearly the Egyptian re-alignment with the Iranian-Russian axis and away from the US-Israeli-Saudi axis of evil is already bearing fruit.

    Al-Sisi the murderer is Washington's man. The US always liked dictators as long as they were "their" dictators. Saddam and Gaddafi should have heeded that advice. How many monarchies have been toppled ?
    :trollface:

    Edited to add:

    Egypt is spending $5 billion on Frog fighters and corvette. EU-funded arms for Al-Sisi? EU bet...!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567

    GIN1138 said:

    Peter Oborne quits Telegraph and launches devastating critique of way the paper is run. Looks like more HSBC issues.

    Or have we done this one and I missed it earlier?

    Where can we read Pete's rant Re. The Tele?
    https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/peter-oborne/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegraph
    Wow!
This discussion has been closed.