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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A bit of cheer for LAB as TNS Scotland poll has party just

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited February 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A bit of cheer for LAB as TNS Scotland poll has party just 10% behind

Just out from TNS is the latest Scotland poll. The main GE voting figures are in the chart above and as can be seen the red team trail the nats by 10%.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    What happened to the comments on this thread ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    What happened to the comments on this thread ?

    Two chances to get first and I bloody missed it. Great!
  • John Curtice's take:

    Professor John Curtice, from Strathclyde University, said: ”A lead like this rather than the 20-point one in many other recent polls would enable Labour to hang on to half of its current seats. It reminds us of just how much difference a few points either way makes to Labour and SNP prospects. That said I am not sure Labour would be that happy losing half of its seats.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/snp-set-to-double-its-vote-in-general-election-poll-finds?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,038

    John Curtice's take:

    Professor John Curtice, from Strathclyde University, said: ”A lead like this rather than the 20-point one in many other recent polls would enable Labour to hang on to half of its current seats. It reminds us of just how much difference a few points either way makes to Labour and SNP prospects. That said I am not sure Labour would be that happy losing half of its seats.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/snp-set-to-double-its-vote-in-general-election-poll-finds?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    A fair bit happier than losing all their seats, probably!
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    John Curtice's take:

    Professor John Curtice, from Strathclyde University, said: ”A lead like this rather than the 20-point one in many other recent polls would enable Labour to hang on to half of its current seats. It reminds us of just how much difference a few points either way makes to Labour and SNP prospects. That said I am not sure Labour would be that happy losing half of its seats.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/snp-set-to-double-its-vote-in-general-election-poll-finds?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

    That is a very, very neutral article by a pro-Labour paper. That pretty much tells you all you need to know.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited February 2015
    A 16 point swing to the SNP is certainly little cause for celebration for SLAB.

    It would be interesting to see how unequal the swing is in different parts of Scotland.

    I was pondering the UK swing (Con-Lab) the other day with the GE in mind, and had a look at the Euros, finding this:

    London 10.1%
    NW 9.5%
    Y + H 7.9%
    NE 6.8%
    UK 6.7%
    W Mids 6.7%
    East Mids 6.1%
    Wales 5.8%
    SE 5.1%
    East 4.8%
    SW 3.7%
    Scotland 2.4%

    The UNS is anything but a UNS, and there is a strong illustration of where Labour is performing well, and not.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.

    It is fair to say that at the IMF in New York, and in the corridors of Europe, SYRIZA's tactics are being met with exasperation. There was a general feeling last week that a deal was broadly in reach: with maturity extensions, a moratorium on some interest payments, coupon cuts, a reduction in the required primary surplus, and the IMF taking on the role of supervising Greece. The price for all this was - of course - continued reform. (By the way, this would be a cracking deal, reducing the effective value of Greece's outstanding debt from 170% of GDP to probably just less than 100%, in real terms.)

    However, I think the latest Tsipras u-turn (which was probably made to shore up his fractious coalition - many of whom are not prepared to accept supervision under any circumstances), may well have the opposite of what he was hoping. A number countries seem to be coming to the view that the Greek government will probably just renege on its promises anyway, so why give it the deal of the century? And a number of German economists have made pointed comments along the lines of (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Greece says that the Euro would fall apart if they left. We think it will fall apart if they stay."

    It is still slightly more likely Greece stays in the Euro, than it goes. The Americans are putting a lot of pressure on the Athens government behind the scenes (although I think the Russians are pulling in the opposite direction). But the probability of Grexit has increased significantly since last week.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.......

    Russia is the key to this. I don't think it is any coincidence that this week has seen the almost unhinged Godwinesque insults laid at Putin by certain foreign ministers

    As this blog shows the Greek government is in dicsussions with Russia:

    http://blogs.barrons.com/emergingmarketsdaily/2015/02/09/greeks-to-visit-russia-wednesday-alongside-eu-debt-meeting/

    The German press are also onto this:

    http://www.dw.de/will-russia-bail-out-greece/a-18236395

    "Greece's new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could be headed to Moscow on May 9 to discuss a potential bailout package for his debt-ridden nation, officials in both Athens and the Kremlin signalled after a phone call between the two leaders on Thursday."

    Meanwhile rumours that Russia are to have Naval and Airbases in Cyprus might explain the foreign secretarys rant:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-military-agreement-in-cyprus-2015-2?r=US

    As usual the uk mainstream uk media are far back on the curve.......
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Morning all, frankly I don't see where the relief for SLAB comes from. TNS gave the SNP a 10% lead last month and it continues to give it a 10% lead this month.

    As I said last week it will be interesting to learn what resources leading SLAB figures like Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran insist on being diverted from English marginal seats to their seats and others like them in Scotland.

    Frankly the only poll worth seeing today is the ARSE and I will miss it owing to being in meetings all day.
  • Since this poll is the first of its type from this pollster, it's difficult to know how to interpret it. On the face of it, it's relatively good for Labour and relatively bad for the SNP. But we don't know whether we're seeing swing or simply seeing this pollster's methodology. The detailed tables will be worth looking at.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,704
    edited February 2015

    rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.......

    Russia is the key to this. I don't think it is any coincidence that this week has seen the almost unhinged Godwinesque insults laid at Putin by certain foreign ministers

    As this blog shows the Greek government is in dicsussions with Russia:

    http://blogs.barrons.com/emergingmarketsdaily/2015/02/09/greeks-to-visit-russia-wednesday-alongside-eu-debt-meeting/

    The German press are also onto this:

    http://www.dw.de/will-russia-bail-out-greece/a-18236395

    "Greece's new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could be headed to Moscow on May 9 to discuss a potential bailout package for his debt-ridden nation, officials in both Athens and the Kremlin signalled after a phone call between the two leaders on Thursday."

    Meanwhile rumours that Russia are to have Naval and Airbases in Cyprus might explain the foreign secretarys rant:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-military-agreement-in-cyprus-2015-2?r=US

    As usual the uk mainstream uk media are far back on the curve.......
    Russia has been obsessed with obtaining a warm-water port for the best part of 200 years. If they do get it, I can't see things ending well with RAF Akrotiri just down the road.

    Knowing the ineptitude of our government, they'll probably unilaterally withdraw all British forces from Cyprus in the name of saving money de-escalating tensions, thereby surrendering strategic control of the eastern Mediterranean to Putin's mafia state.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,020
    At the GE in 2010 the SNP were 22% behind Labour (whisper it softly but not much ahead of the tories in terms of votes) so a 10% lead still means a 16% swing from Labour to SNP.

    16%. Not in a by election but across an entire country. I am struggling to recall anything like it. SLAB has a long way to go to avoid serious damage.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.

    It is fair to say that at the IMF in New York, and in the corridors of Europe, SYRIZA's tactics are being met with exasperation. There was a general feeling last week that a deal was broadly in reach: with maturity extensions, a moratorium on some interest payments, coupon cuts, a reduction in the required primary surplus, and the IMF taking on the role of supervising Greece. The price for all this was - of course - continued reform. (By the way, this would be a cracking deal, reducing the effective value of Greece's outstanding debt from 170% of GDP to probably just less than 100%, in real terms.)

    However, I think the latest Tsipras u-turn (which was probably made to shore up his fractious coalition - many of whom are not prepared to accept supervision under any circumstances), may well have the opposite of what he was hoping. A number countries seem to be coming to the view that the Greek government will probably just renege on its promises anyway, so why give it the deal of the century? And a number of German economists have made pointed comments along the lines of (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Greece says that the Euro would fall apart if they left. We think it will fall apart if they stay."

    It is still slightly more likely Greece stays in the Euro, than it goes. The Americans are putting a lot of pressure on the Athens government behind the scenes (although I think the Russians are pulling in the opposite direction). But the probability of Grexit has increased significantly since last week.

    Why would Tsipras listen to the Americans?

    I wonder if he can sell a deal similar to the above to his party, but not at the expense of continued privatisation, which they seem to have an allergic reaction to.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Does Russia really have the money to bail out Greece and Cyprus? Thereby putting all their money in the EU? If they do, then it may well be a good thing as it would leave the Russians short of cash for other adventures.



  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Good to have your ARSE back in form with something solid to work on!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited February 2015
    chestnut said:

    A 16 point swing to the SNP is certainly little cause for celebration for SLAB.

    It would be interesting to see how unequal the swing is in different parts of Scotland.

    I was pondering the UK swing (Con-Lab) the other day with the GE in mind, and had a look at the Euros, finding this:

    London 10.1%
    NW 9.5%
    Y + H 7.9%
    NE 6.8%
    UK 6.7%
    W Mids 6.7%
    East Mids 6.1%
    Wales 5.8%
    SE 5.1%
    East 4.8%
    SW 3.7%
    Scotland 2.4%

    The UNS is anything but a UNS, and there is a strong illustration of where Labour is performing well, and not.

    The BES think that Labour are doing best in LD seats/wards.

    "Labour are the clear beneficiaries of this pattern of Liberal Democrat decline. This fits previous research on the pattern of vote switching at the individual level.

    While more votes are clearly welcome for Labour, this particular constituency pattern is not particularly advantageous for the party. Most Liberal Democrat seats have the Conservatives in second place and it will be tough for Labour to come from third to win.

    There is a danger for Labour of not winning so many seats as uniform swing would suggest if their vote gains are disproportionately concentrated in areas where the Liberal Democrats did relatively well in 2010."

    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/bes-resources/what-the-bes-suggests-about-constituency-variation-in-party-performance-by-stephen-fisher-university-of-oxford/
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @margotjamesmp: The PM and @williamjhague to address @britishchambers today, incredible that Miliband is too busy for this key event in business calendar

    @patrickwintour: Foolish of Ed Miliband not to attend British Chambers of Commerce - feeds an impression he can dispel at little ideological cost to himself.
  • This is very interesting. I have believed for a while SNP won't do as well as some think in Scotland just as LDs probs won't do so bad in England.

    The SNP ALWAYS always always flatter to deceive. Bet accordingly.
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276

    Does Russia really have the money to bail out Greece and Cyprus? Thereby putting all their money in the EU? If they do, then it may well be a good thing as it would leave the Russians short of cash for other adventures.



    No, Russia doesn't have the coin to do this. Also i doubt either Greece or Cyprus would be stupid enough to want to become a sunny Belarus
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    This is very interesting. I have believed for a while SNP won't do as well as some think in Scotland just as LDs probs won't do so bad in England.

    The SNP ALWAYS always always flatter to deceive. Bet accordingly.

    The SNP completely outperformed expectations in 2011.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    antifrank said:

    Since this poll is the first of its type from this pollster, it's difficult to know how to interpret it. On the face of it, it's relatively good for Labour and relatively bad for the SNP. But we don't know whether we're seeing swing or simply seeing this pollster's methodology. The detailed tables will be worth looking at.

    It would still give the SNP about 34 seats, on UNS. Looking at individual seats, UNS would have the SNP sweeping the board in Edinburgh, but with low vote shares, while still falling short in Glasgow and its environs. But, I think the reverse is true, for all the reasons you've given.
  • Sean_F said:

    antifrank said:

    Since this poll is the first of its type from this pollster, it's difficult to know how to interpret it. On the face of it, it's relatively good for Labour and relatively bad for the SNP. But we don't know whether we're seeing swing or simply seeing this pollster's methodology. The detailed tables will be worth looking at.

    It would still give the SNP about 34 seats, on UNS. Looking at individual seats, UNS would have the SNP sweeping the board in Edinburgh, but with low vote shares, while still falling short in Glasgow and its environs. But, I think the reverse is true, for all the reasons you've given.
    Lord Ashcroft in relatively Yes-friendly seats (Gordon aside) found the SNP on 48% on average. Those polls and this poll may be entirely consistent with each other.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Sean_F said:

    antifrank said:

    Since this poll is the first of its type from this pollster, it's difficult to know how to interpret it. On the face of it, it's relatively good for Labour and relatively bad for the SNP. But we don't know whether we're seeing swing or simply seeing this pollster's methodology. The detailed tables will be worth looking at.

    It would still give the SNP about 34 seats, on UNS. Looking at individual seats, UNS would have the SNP sweeping the board in Edinburgh, but with low vote shares, while still falling short in Glasgow and its environs. But, I think the reverse is true, for all the reasons you've given.
    I think if this ends up being the result then Labour hangs on in places like Edinburgh South, but still probably gains Glasgow South.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.
  • ...
    As I said last week it will be interesting to learn what resources leading SLAB figures like Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran insist on being diverted from English marginal seats to their seats and others like them in Scotland.
    ......

    When I wrote that this is what Labour needed to do, NickExMP wrote that this will just not happen. Labour HQ have not woken up to the Russian front that is underway.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Until this narrowing of the lead is replicated elsewhere, I wouldn't get too excited.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.......

    Russia is the key to this. I don't think it is any coincidence that this week has seen the almost unhinged Godwinesque insults laid at Putin by certain foreign ministers

    As this blog shows the Greek government is in dicsussions with Russia:

    http://blogs.barrons.com/emergingmarketsdaily/2015/02/09/greeks-to-visit-russia-wednesday-alongside-eu-debt-meeting/

    The German press are also onto this:

    http://www.dw.de/will-russia-bail-out-greece/a-18236395

    "Greece's new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could be headed to Moscow on May 9 to discuss a potential bailout package for his debt-ridden nation, officials in both Athens and the Kremlin signalled after a phone call between the two leaders on Thursday."

    Meanwhile rumours that Russia are to have Naval and Airbases in Cyprus might explain the foreign secretarys rant:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-military-agreement-in-cyprus-2015-2?r=US

    As usual the uk mainstream uk media are far back on the curve.......
    Russia has been obsessed with obtaining a warm-water port for the best part of 200 years. If they do get it, I can't see things ending well with RAF Akrotiri just down the road.

    Knowing the ineptitude of our government, they'll probably unilaterally withdraw all British forces from Cyprus in the name of saving money de-escalating tensions, thereby surrendering strategic control of the eastern Mediterranean to Putin's mafia state.
    Wasn't there a Danish party that wanted to abolish their armed forces and replace them with a recorded message saying "we surrender" in Russian? Maybe they're advising the Conservatives.
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    An interesting line "will not tolerate"

    What do think the public thinks will happen to our debt if we do not reduce it?

    I am going to write to my mortgage company and tell them that I will not tolerate paying it after May. I wonder how I will get on
  • Mr. F, to be fair, the Government isn't to blame for the Ukraine, Greek or eurozone situations.
  • ...
    As I said last week it will be interesting to learn what resources leading SLAB figures like Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran insist on being diverted from English marginal seats to their seats and others like them in Scotland.
    ......

    When I wrote that this is what Labour needed to do, NickExMP wrote that this will just not happen. Labour HQ have not woken up to the Russian front that is underway.
    Of course it won't happen. Labour will not cut spending on its target seats in England. They'll just borrow more money to spend on defending its seats in Scotland.

    How quaint of you to expect them to stick to a budget!
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited February 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Scott_P said:

    @margotjamesmp: The PM and @williamjhague to address @britishchambers today, incredible that Miliband is too busy for this key event in business calendar

    @patrickwintour: Foolish of Ed Miliband not to attend British Chambers of Commerce - feeds an impression he can dispel at little ideological cost to himself.

    Being met in deathly silence is clearly not what the handlers of The Glorious Leader think appropriate during an election campaign. Where are the cheering masses throwing red rose petals in front of him? Where is the adoration? Nah, safer to spend his time in Bootle...
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    150 minutes 150 seconds
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    George Eaton @georgeeaton
    DUP's Nigel Dodds outlines priorities: protection for defence, abolition of bedroom tax, tougher border controls
  • currystar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    An interesting line "will not tolerate"

    What do think the public thinks will happen to our debt if we do not reduce it?

    I am going to write to my mortgage company and tell them that I will not tolerate paying it after May. I wonder how I will get on
    There are pretty chunky majorities that say austerity has been necessary. Your caricature is not justified. The YouGov question is:

    "Thinking about the way the government is cutting spending to reduce the government's deficit, do you think this is... Necessary or Unnecessary?"

    Necessary = 57%
    Unnecessary = 28%
    Don't know = 15%

    Where the Coalition has a problem is on whether this has been done in a fair way. Then the scores are reversed, 54% unfair, 28% fair and 17% don't know. The failure of "We're all in this together" is the weak link in Coalition strategy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    Forget the past decade - let's talk the last 12 months. How looks the economy now? Still set fair, Comrade Putin?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.......

    Russia is the key to this. I don't think it is any coincidence that this week has seen the almost unhinged Godwinesque insults laid at Putin by certain foreign ministers

    As this blog shows the Greek government is in dicsussions with Russia:

    http://blogs.barrons.com/emergingmarketsdaily/2015/02/09/greeks-to-visit-russia-wednesday-alongside-eu-debt-meeting/

    The German press are also onto this:

    http://www.dw.de/will-russia-bail-out-greece/a-18236395

    "Greece's new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could be headed to Moscow on May 9 to discuss a potential bailout package for his debt-ridden nation, officials in both Athens and the Kremlin signalled after a phone call between the two leaders on Thursday."

    Meanwhile rumours that Russia are to have Naval and Airbases in Cyprus might explain the foreign secretarys rant:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-military-agreement-in-cyprus-2015-2?r=US

    As usual the uk mainstream uk media are far back on the curve.......
    Russia has been obsessed with obtaining a warm-water port for the best part of 200 years. If they do get it, I can't see things ending well with RAF Akrotiri just down the road.

    Knowing the ineptitude of our government, they'll probably unilaterally withdraw all British forces from Cyprus in the name of saving money de-escalating tensions, thereby surrendering strategic control of the eastern Mediterranean to Putin's mafia state.
    I thought they already have one in Syria.

    The UK is starting to look very isolated on the Ukraine, just us, the Balts and Poland.

    Meanwhile the rebels have now completed the encirclement at Debaltsevo.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
    Productivity growth has been in the non commodity sector.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538
    currystar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    An interesting line "will not tolerate"

    What do think the public thinks will happen to our debt if we do not reduce it?

    I am going to write to my mortgage company and tell them that I will not tolerate paying it after May. I wonder how I will get on
    Whether you think the public are right or wrong, that seems to be where public opinion is heading.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
    Productivity growth has been in the non commodity sector.
    Interesting. Did you know that Belgium has 5x the non-commodity exports of Russia.
  • Sean_F said:



    Wasn't there a Danish party that wanted to abolish their armed forces and replace them with a recorded message saying "we surrender" in Russian? Maybe they're advising the Conservatives.

    But those Danes were opposed to war.

    This government believes in defence cuts AND warmongering.

    Rather more 'all mouth and no trousers' than 'talk softly but carry a big stick'.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567

    ...
    As I said last week it will be interesting to learn what resources leading SLAB figures like Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran insist on being diverted from English marginal seats to their seats and others like them in Scotland.
    ......

    When I wrote that this is what Labour needed to do, NickExMP wrote that this will just not happen. Labour HQ have not woken up to the Russian front that is underway.
    Nah - that's exactly not what I wrote. I said that funding already received for the English marginals was now sufficient (we have enough for the full short campaign limit and what we want to do in the remaining long campaign, and a reserve for another campaign if needed), and if the party wanted to move resources into Scotland that was fine by me. We've stopped all fund-raising activity locally - it's now a distrraction from more important things.
    Dair said:



    That is a very, very neutral article by a pro-Labour paper. That pretty much tells you all you need to know.

    IMO Curtice genuinely is neutral, regardless of who he's writing for, and it doesn't really imply anything that he's neutral on this occasion. It's a relatively encouraging poll but of course just one poll.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    Sean_F said:

    currystar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    An interesting line "will not tolerate"

    What do think the public thinks will happen to our debt if we do not reduce it?

    I am going to write to my mortgage company and tell them that I will not tolerate paying it after May. I wonder how I will get on
    Whether you think the public are right or wrong, that seems to be where public opinion is heading.

    Not sure about that. I think the public would continue to support austerity which cuts the welfare bill - especially if some of the rule changes enable a stronger line on benefits for EU emigrants as well. As a general rule, rather as with taxation, people approve changes which don't affect them directly.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
    Productivity growth has been in the non commodity sector.
    Interesting. Did you know that Belgium has 5x the non-commodity exports of Russia.
    Belgium has no commodities so that would make sense. I would say the Russian market is more key to the UK though, bigger and faster growing.

    In 50 years time the Russian people and state will both be richer and still actually exist, can one say the same about any Western country.
  • FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
    Productivity growth has been in the non commodity sector.
    Interesting. Did you know that Belgium has 5x the non-commodity exports of Russia.
    Belgium has no commodities so that would make sense. I would say the Russian market is more key to the UK though, bigger and faster growing.

    In 50 years time the Russian people and state will both be richer and still actually exist, can one say the same about any Western country.
    Given how many ethnic minorities Russia has in concentrated pockets, I would say the existence of Russia in its current incarnation is far from certain. Interfering in Ukraine threatens to open up a Pandora's box.
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    edited February 2015
    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    @toryMP: criticism of Labour leader and praise of colleagues
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    And they can no longer afford abortions?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173
    isam said:

    @toryMP: criticism of Labour leader and praise of colleagues

    Que????
  • FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Actually, birth rates in Russia itself are below replacment rate; it seems that Russians only really thrive outside their own country....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,963
    edited February 2015
    Rights of over one thousand prisoners breached when they were stopped from voting, says European court of clowns:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895

    Edited extra bit: it's breaking, so there's little detail as yet.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Animal_pb said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Actually, birth rates in Russia itself are below replacment rate; it seems that Russians only really thrive outside their own country....
    Adding in the population of Crimea probably boosts Russia's population this year!
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    Animal_pb said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Actually, birth rates in Russia itself are below replacment rate; it seems that Russians only really thrive outside their own country....
    No ethnic Russians actually want to bring new life into this world, unlike us they see a brighter future.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/will-russia-now-die/
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Rights of over one thousand prisoners breached when they were stopped from voting, says European court of clowns:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895

    Edited extra bit: it's breaking, so there's little detail as yet.

    They should emigrate to somewhere more liberal.

    On topic - why has Jack's ARSE changed time schedule ?

    On topic - Labour still getting thrashed - hardly a cause for celebration.
  • FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Even dead cats bounce if you drop them from a high enough height:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Main_trends

    Anyway, it's not true that no other European people are growing:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-estimate/population-estimates-for-uk--england-and-wales--scotland-and-northern-ireland/2013/sty-population-changes.html
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    isam said:

    @toryMP: criticism of Labour leader and praise of colleagues

    Extract and link to Telegraph opinion piece that states Labour leader is crap.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Has the European court got a large bet on UKIP overs :D ?
  • FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801
    antifrank said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Even dead cats bounce if you drop them from a high enough height:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Main_trends

    Anyway, it's not true that no other European people are growing:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-estimate/population-estimates-for-uk--england-and-wales--scotland-and-northern-ireland/2013/sty-population-changes.html
    Who isn't having children and who is?
  • One reason Russian demographics went into population decline inthe 1990s was the catastrophic life expectancy of males. And alcoholism played a huge role here - just look at the myriad of 'we love Russia' or 'only in Russia' videos on Youtube. Then when the economy improved they became a bit less drunk. Now with the economy set to nosedive again I wonder if the alcoholism / misery thing will reappear.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life expectancy is growing again.

    Of course, Russian male life expectancy is still a barely credible 64 years. (Up from something in the 50s, not long ago.)

    One of the reasons why Russian GDP per capita did so well, of course, is because alcoholism killed people in their early 60s. As health initiatives begin to work, Russia's pensions bill will rise sharply.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Alistair said:



    Extract and link to Telegraph opinion piece that states Labour leader is crap.

    isam said:

    @toryMP: criticism of Labour leader and praise of colleagues

    Irony alert klaxon due to tandem posting from Northern and Southern National Socialists..
  • Let me repeat the obvious point about this poll which Mike's summary of the dates of polling does not fully reflect.

    It was sampled according to The Herald between 14 JANUARY and 2 February. This is a contrast with the YouGov record lead of 21 per cent for the SNP which was sampled between 29 JANUARY and 2 February. Alternatively it could be compared with some of the more recent Ashcroft constituency polling for example Dundee West showing extraordinary swings and sampled between 23-30th January. Therefore it is impossible to suggest that this TNS poll represents anything other than a different means of sampling. An earlier poll than the exisiting evidence cannot be sited as a trend not more than it can in the absence of any TNS comparison.

    The anxiety to play down the extent of the political earthquake taking place in Scotland or pounce on any scrap of evidence to try and deny it is one of the more puzzling things about this site. The last time was the Panelbase survey of early January also showing an SNP lead of "only" 10 per cent. That did not turn out well for those hoping to see the green shoots of a Labour revivial!
  • FalseFlag said:

    antifrank said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Even dead cats bounce if you drop them from a high enough height:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia#Main_trends

    Anyway, it's not true that no other European people are growing:

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-estimate/population-estimates-for-uk--england-and-wales--scotland-and-northern-ireland/2013/sty-population-changes.html
    Who isn't having children and who is?
    In Britain, everyone's having children:

    "This period has also seen an increasing number of births, driven by both the immigration of women of childbearing age (15-44) and rising fertility among UK-born women."
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    Does Russia really have the money to bail out Greece and Cyprus? Thereby putting all their money in the EU? If they do, then it may well be a good thing as it would leave the Russians short of cash for other adventures.



    No, Russia doesn't have the coin to do this. Also i doubt either Greece or Cyprus would be stupid enough to want to become a sunny Belarus
    I suspect the Greek armed forces will take matters into their own hands, should their new government throw down a welcome mat for the Russians.

    Goodbye PM, Hello Junta.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,626
    Re Russia and population. Here is the "pyramid": http://populationpyramid.net/russian-federation/

    Russia will find it extremely hard to grow their number of births in the coming 10 years, simply because the number of women of childbearing age is about to shrink dramatically. There are almost exactly twice as many women in their early 20s as there are in their early teens.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2015

    ...
    As I said last week it will be interesting to learn what resources leading SLAB figures like Jim Murphy, Douglas Alexander and Margaret Curran insist on being diverted from English marginal seats to their seats and others like them in Scotland.
    ......

    When I wrote that this is what Labour needed to do, NickExMP wrote that this will just not happen. Labour HQ have not woken up to the Russian front that is underway.
    Nah - that's exactly not what I wrote. I said that funding already received for the English marginals was now sufficient (we have enough for the full short campaign limit and what we want to do in the remaining long campaign, and a reserve for another campaign if needed), and if the party wanted to move resources into Scotland that was fine by me. We've stopped all fund-raising activity locally - it's now a distrraction from more important things.
    Dair said:



    That is a very, very neutral article by a pro-Labour paper. That pretty much tells you all you need to know.

    ....
    Nick wrote 1st Jan "Certainly TCP's suggestion that we write off the election is for the birds - I'll be genuinely surprised if we're not the largest party and have bet with Audrey against her very different prediction."

    In response to my advocating the Labour accept this election is probably lost and they needed to shift major resources to save SLAB. Something I originally wrote soon after the SNP surge in 2014. But time is running out for any shift to have much effect.

    Labour's strategic error has been to overlook the SNP. Going for 35% required them to hold Scotland.
  • Rights of over one thousand prisoners breached when they were stopped from voting, says European court of clowns:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895

    Edited extra bit: it's breaking, so there's little detail as yet.

    Worth remembering that the European Court objects only to the blanket ban on prisoners voting. As far as I can tell, if the removal of voting rights was made a separate punishment which a judge could impose during sentencing, and it so happened that judges then imposed this as an add-on to all custodial sentences, the European Court would be happy.

    Separating the two punishments in this way would presumably enable judges to remove voting rights from people who are not given custodial sentences, which might be appropriate for people guilty of electoral fraud offences.
  • JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
  • FalseFlag said:

    Animal_pb said:

    FalseFlag said:

    Demographically Russians are the only European people who are growing and not suffering a precipitous decline, perhaps we should ask ourselves why?

    http://en.youscribe.com/catalogue/tous/germany-s-fast-hold-on-the-european-continent-2518158

    Because life in Russia is so shit all there is left to do is fuck?
    Actually, birth rates in Russia itself are below replacment rate; it seems that Russians only really thrive outside their own country....
    No ethnic Russians actually want to bring new life into this world, unlike us they see a brighter future.

    http://www.unz.com/akarlin/will-russia-now-die/
    But of course. Someone has to populate all the Lebensraum that Putin is planning to carve out from Eastern Europe.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited February 2015

    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
    Jack's 104. He keeps forgetting his log in details.
  • Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    You are reading far, far too much into a poll bouncing around the MOE. Labour still leads by opts in the UKPR average.
  • Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    You are reading far, far too much into a poll bouncing around the MOE. Labour still leads by opts in the UKPR average.
    You are reading far, far too much into a poll bouncing around the MOE. Labour still leads by 2pts in the UKPR average.
  • antifrank said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FalseFlag said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Paul_Mid_Beds

    The issue Russia has is that its economy is being hammered by low oil and commodity prices. The Ruble has collapsed, and all the independent collected economic indicators are pointing sharply down.

    Russia - as you say - may very well decide to bring Greece inside its sphere of influence, and offer it an alternative route to the Western one. (Russia and Greece share a common Orthodox heritage, of course.)

    However, it is worth remembering that the Eastern European countries that "turned West", and joined Nato and the EU have done well (the Baltic State, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, etc.), while those that stayed attached to Russia have done much less well. Russia's ability to import products from Greece, Ukraine, Kazhkstan, etc., is also very limited: even before the current economic issues, Russia's imports were only about the same size as Belgium's.

    So, we shall see.

    Russia has done best of all transition countries in the past 10 years, spectacular productivity growth. How have the Balkans faired, the Ukraine is poorer than they were in the 90s? You are making a comparison that neither exists nor is accurate.
    See this: https://www.google.et_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VEN:COL:BRA:RUS:KAZ&ifdim=region&tstart=950140800000&tend=1360454400000&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false

    You'll notice the incredibly similar growth from 2000 to 2013 for Russia, Venezuela, Kazhakstan, Brazil and Colombia.

    Do you know what all those countries' economies have in common: a near total dependence on commodities.

    Now, it's possible that Brazil, Kazakhstan, Colombia and Venezuela all showed growth because of commodities. While, for Russia, it was Putin.

    But it's not very likely.
    Productivity growth has been in the non commodity sector.
    Interesting. Did you know that Belgium has 5x the non-commodity exports of Russia.
    Belgium has no commodities so that would make sense. I would say the Russian market is more key to the UK though, bigger and faster growing.

    In 50 years time the Russian people and state will both be richer and still actually exist, can one say the same about any Western country.
    Given how many ethnic minorities Russia has in concentrated pockets, I would say the existence of Russia in its current incarnation is far from certain. Interfering in Ukraine threatens to open up a Pandora's box.
    Genuine question: if Russia invaded our NATO allies in the Baltic States on the pretext of protecting ethnic minority Russians, what would you advocate we do?
  • JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
    Jack's 104. He keeps forgetting his log in details.
    A tired response entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.

    Weird monomania with the 'crime' of 'multiple screen names'.

    WHO CARES?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited February 2015

    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
    Said the man spamming the thread with complaints about other people spamming the thread...

    Edit: I spammed with self-awareness I'll have you know.
  • JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
    Said the man spamming the thread with complaints about other people spamming the thread...
    Said the man spamming the thread with complaints about other people complaining about spamming the thread...
  • Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    You are reading far, far too much into a poll bouncing around the MOE. Labour still leads by opts in the UKPR average.
    You are reading far, far too much into a poll bouncing around the MOE. Labour still leads by 2pts in the UKPR average.
    The Edit button is still there, in the top-right corner, it just seems to be invisible on my version of Firefox.
  • Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Greece Update

    Morning all.

    On Sunday, Tsipras stood before the Greek parliament to give an update on what he wanted, and where he thought the negotiations were. Having spent most of last week seeing investors and assuring them "we know that we're not going to be able to deliver on all our promises to the electorate, and it is our plan to run a permanent primary budget surplus," he seemed to spin 180 degrees, and to declare that he would meet all his promises, and to make threats about collecting second world war reparations from Germany. The temperature was raised again yesterday, when the finance minister announced that, should Greece leave the Euro, then the Euro would fall apart.......

    Russia is the key to this. I don't think it is any coincidence that this week has seen the almost unhinged Godwinesque insults laid at Putin by certain foreign ministers

    As this blog shows the Greek government is in dicsussions with Russia:

    -to-visit-russia-wednesday-alongside-eu-debt-meeting/

    The German press are also onto this:

    http://www.dw.de/will-russia-bail-out-greece/a-18236395

    "Greece's new Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras could be headed to Moscow on May 9 to discuss a potential bailout package for his debt-ridden nation, officials in both Athens and the Kremlin signalled after a phone call between the two leaders on Thursday."

    Meanwhile rumours that Russia are to have Naval and Airbases in Cyprus might explain the foreign secretarys rant:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/russia-military-agreement-in-cyprus-2015-2?r=US

    As usual the uk mainstream uk media are far back on the curve.......
    Russia has been obsessed with obtaining a warm-water port for the best part of 200 years. If they do get it, I can't see things ending well with RAF Akrotiri just down the road.

    Knowing the ineptitude of our government, they'll probably unilaterally withdraw all British forces from Cyprus in the name of saving money de-escalating tensions, thereby surrendering strategic control of the eastern Mediterranean to Putin's mafia state.
    Wasn't there a Danish party that wanted to abolish their armed forces and replace them with a recorded message saying "we surrender" in Russian? Maybe they're advising the Conservatives.
    And they appear to be listening to them! The only crumb of comfort I can take from it is that I think a left-wing coalition led by Labour would be even worse. But that's a bit like being offered a choice of being beheaded or hung, drawn and quartered; I'd prefer to live thank you very much.

    If this does happen I expect several more defections to UKIP at the end of the year. Perhaps the threat of that might be enough to reign Osborne in, but perhaps not.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    edited February 2015

    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    250 minutes 250 seconds

    Why not just post the bloody (made up) numbers rather than spamming the thread with vainglorious countdowns?
    Jack's 104. He keeps forgetting his log in details.
    A tired response entirely irrelevant to the point I was making.

    Weird monomania with the 'crime' of 'multiple screen names'.

    WHO CARES?
    That wooshing sound you just heard was the watchers post going straight over your head.

    P.$. It wasn't the fact you used multiple screen names that people take issue with. It's the fact that you blatantly lied about it.
  • Mr. Royale, rein*.

    Not quite so negative, generally, as you regarding the blues, but their Defence approach is severely lacking. I share your view that Labour would be (and were) even worse.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Though I know anecdotes are forbidden on here last week I was in Aberdeen and those I was with were scratching their heads about the Scottish polls. So trusting my hosts I've put two reasonable sized bets on. One on an Edinburgh seat one on an Aberdonian one. So if I'm selling the Big Issue in a couple of months I'll know I should have trusted Antifrank
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Oooh!

    My 150/1 tip Cannock chase in there too

    Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ)
    10/02/2015 09:40
    According to this leaked list the Cons are NOT targeting Rochester & Strood or Boston & Skegness, 2 top Ukip targets bit.ly/1zrNreP
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,712
    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    150 minutes 150 seconds

    Does that mean 11am? If so GMT or Jacobite time!
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171
    Sean_F said:

    currystar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Looking at this morning's poll, it's interesting that the Conservatives have just moved into the lead - at the same time that the highest number yet blames the coalition for the cuts in public spending. That suggests to me that the public do give the Conservatives credit for steering the economy through hard times, and may well re-elect them, but will not tolerate further austerity after May.

    An interesting line "will not tolerate"

    What do think the public thinks will happen to our debt if we do not reduce it?

    I am going to write to my mortgage company and tell them that I will not tolerate paying it after May. I wonder how I will get on
    Whether you think the public are right or wrong, that seems to be where public opinion is heading.

    That may be true, may it doesn't make it right.

    If a UK party did a Syriza and came up with a policy that we would not pay any of our debts and there would be mass public spending they would get millions of votes despite the lunacy of the policy.

  • Roger said:

    Though I know anecdotes are forbidden on here last week I was in Aberdeen and those I was with were scratching their heads about the Scottish polls. So trusting my hosts I've put two reasonable sized bets on. One on an Edinburgh seat one on an Aberdonian one. So if I'm selling the Big Issue in a couple of months I'll know I should have trusted Antifrank

    Do you still have your shares in Barclays Roger?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    JackW said:

    Latest ARSE General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    150 minutes 150 seconds

    Does that mean 11am? If so GMT or Jacobite time!
    And why the new time ? Is this part of the change agenda ?

  • Genuine question: if Russia invaded our NATO allies in the Baltic States on the pretext of protecting ethnic minority Russians, what would you advocate we do?

    We have our NATO obligations - an attack on one is an attack on all. We should of course honour them to the best of our ability. And while we have the military means available to us, we should use them to their utmost ability in appropriate cases: so I supported the invasion of Libya, and still think that was the right thing to do, even though it hasn't worked out well since.

    The question is to what extent we should remain militarised to the extent that we are. Why is Britain expected to do proportionately more than most countries?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Roger said:

    Though I know anecdotes are forbidden on here last week I was in Aberdeen and those I was with were scratching their heads about the Scottish polls. So trusting my hosts I've put two reasonable sized bets on. One on an Edinburgh seat one on an Aberdonian one. So if I'm selling the Big Issue in a couple of months I'll know I should have trusted Antifrank

    You've backed Anne Begg and Ian Murray ?

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    OSM

    "Do you still have your shares in Barclays Roger?"

    A wheelbarrow full. You can't get everything right
  • isam said:

    Oooh!

    My 150/1 tip Cannock chase in there too

    Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ)
    10/02/2015 09:40
    According to this leaked list the Cons are NOT targeting Rochester & Strood or Boston & Skegness, 2 top Ukip targets bit.ly/1zrNreP

    I think that makes Cannock Chase a Labour/UKIP marginal rather than a three-way contest. Is that good or bad for UKIP?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Roger said:

    Though I know anecdotes are forbidden on here last week I was in Aberdeen and those I was with were scratching their heads about the Scottish polls. So trusting my hosts I've put two reasonable sized bets on. One on an Edinburgh seat one on an Aberdonian one. So if I'm selling the Big Issue in a couple of months I'll know I should have trusted Antifrank

    Only SO can save these two MPs now by declaring them toast and thereby lifting the curse of Rogerdamus.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Oooh!

    My 150/1 tip Cannock chase in there too

    Matthew Goodwin (@GoodwinMJ)
    10/02/2015 09:40
    According to this leaked list the Cons are NOT targeting Rochester & Strood or Boston & Skegness, 2 top Ukip targets bit.ly/1zrNreP

    I think that makes Cannock Chase a Labour/UKIP marginal rather than a three-way contest. Is that good or bad for UKIP?
    You wod have thought that conservatives would vote Ukip to stop a labour govt, but many on here seem to prefer EICIPM or labour in charge of Rotherhams police force than voting tactically so who knows
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    Intrigued to see Rochester & Strood and Boston & Skegness in the list.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited February 2015
    Roger said:

    OSM

    "Do you still have your shares in Barclays Roger?"

    A wheelbarrow full. You can't get everything right

    You know they won't let you into the foodbank until you've eaten them.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Latest ARSE 2015 General Election & "JackW Dozen" Projection Countdown :

    50 minutes 50 seconds
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    & Clacton not on it ?!
This discussion has been closed.