I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
Without in any way detracting from the Holocaust, its interesting to note how little note is made by comparison about the approximately simultaneous atrocities by the Japanese in which around 10,000,000 are believed killed, including around 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.
Unfortunately the Nazis have not cornered the market on extermination. The contrast is how a sophisticated and civilized nation could sink so low.
I doubt that this is the great vote winner that UKIP think it will be. After initial resistance, the public now generally seem to like smokeless nights out.
Of course, as the Nats always tell us, Alan Cochrane writes absolute rubbish......
Since he's recycling what plenty of folk (including Nats) have been saying about Murphy for a while, it's debatable whether Cochrane can claim any authorship of that view. There was a point when, like the PB Loyalists, Cochers was extolling the virtues of Saint Jim.
I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
Without in any way detracting from the Holocaust, its interesting to note how little note is made by comparison about the approximately simultaneous atrocities by the Japanese in which around 10,000,000 are believed killed, including around 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.
And our picture of those deaths comes from POW stories and movies - horrific though they were, the overwhelming majority of the deaths were of other Asians enslaved by the Japanese.....
I've visited Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp just outside Berlin - the Germans have done a good job documenting the horrors of both the Nazis and their Communist successors....
I saw the model of Auschwitz which completely dominated a large room (in the Imperial War Museum Exhibition?) - then was stunned to realise that this vast model represented about one twentieth of the whole camp, illustrated by a photograph on the wall behind....
I doubt that this is the great vote winner that UKIP think it will be. After initial resistance, the public now generally seem to like smokeless nights out.
As someone who gave up occasional smoking at the same time as the smoking ban was introduced in England, I agree.
One fewer 'trump card' in the "inevitable" (sic) Indy negotiations......
Given that the SNP aim is to remove Trident from Scotland then that's a win for the SNP.
Its only a 'win' in a negotiation if your opposite wants to keep it there.....if they have already moved it, or are ready to do so, what do you have to offer in return for something you want?
It would be a WIN , big time , but as it is a load of bollocks it matters not a jot.
Of course, Ms Vance's argument is about-face - planning to move Trident in fact destroys a Unionist card. The fallacy lies in the fact that the report is not about indy (what was that about Unionists being unable to move on from 19 Sept.) but really about what the SNP might do if they were in a position to bargain to support a **** minority government. In which case having Trident sorted would make life a lot easier: "Agenda item 1. Trident ... ah, that's dealt with. Excellent. Next!"
I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
It really gives meaning to the banality of evil - which is truly frightening.
Auschwitz is industrial scale murder - 1.9 million people - Dachau is the boutique killing experience.
it is the stuff of nightmares for reasonable people.
Belsen is where Anne Frank was murdered.
Frightening indeed! “I was only following orders!” And what happened to all the guards? IIRC very few were actually prosecuted. Further, Belsen was close to a village and surely, surely something would have leaked out.
Incidentally on the 10pm news last night there was something about Anne Franck dying in Auschwitz, and he father being there too. My recollection was clearly Belsen, although I wasn’t able to look it up last night!
Its the result of demonising a whole 'class' or subset of people. A race if you like but I am not sure it quite was that. It's what happens when people are persuaded that their problems are all down to one group of people that can be clearly identified as visually different. And its all of them, ''don't bother to look past the stereotype - they are all the same''. And its easy to be passive and compliant. It was a different age of course, one where annexation was still considered plausible. Until Putin came along we thought that time was over.
And after Moseley we thought it could not happen here.
Unless I’m in error, and I’m sure someone here knows, the Japanese atrocities were more in line with the bloodlust shown by humans the world over, and for generations, in the immediate aftermath of the surrender of armies and indeed cities.
There was certainly a fair bit of that, also that Japanese had over 5 million Koreans working in forced labour, a fair chunk of which can be expected to have died, the death rate was estimated around 80%. They also seemed to have just the same sort of predilection for medical experimentation as their European counterparts (most infamously at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731), they also liked to use captured populations for experimenting with chemical and biological weapons (half a million Chinese are estimated to have died from Cholera, Plague and Anthrax)
UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).
– Inheritance tax will be abolished.
– We will introduce a 35p income tax rate between £42,285 and £55,000, whereupon the 40p rate becomes payable.
– UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.
I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
Without in any way detracting from the Holocaust, its interesting to note how little note is made by comparison about the approximately simultaneous atrocities by the Japanese in which around 10,000,000 are believed killed, including around 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.
I think that it was the “industrial process” of killing which was peculiarly horriying, to Western eyes at least. Unless I’m in error, and I’m sure someone here knows, the Japanese atrocities were more in line with the bloodlust shown by humans the world over, and for generations, in the immediate aftermath of the surrender of armies and indeed cities.
Watching the stories about the two Japanese prisoners of ISIL my wife remarked that there was something “odd” about the Japanese complaining about barbarity to prisoners! However we agreed that there was "more joy in heavan over one sinner which repenteth"
The Japanese Imperial Army made the SS look quite humane by comparison. Personally, I think that committing atrocities up close and personal is more shocking than industrialised murder.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
Wait until you see the impact north of the border of reducing the drink/drive level to zero - will hammer pubs and sports clubs as well who wants to walk off the 18th and have a coffee ?
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
High On Licence alcohol prices have done just as much damage, plus ever more restrictive drink driving laws. Were pubs to reintroduce smoking, they'd lose more customers than they gain, particularly as those drinkers they still have, are now accustomed to going home not stinking of Eau de Farage (Smelly ashtray).
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
I did read somewhere, that the other thing that happened at the same time as the smoking ban was supermarkets launched a massive cost cutting approach on alcohol, particularly beer and lager. At one point, you could buy 12 cans of beer for the same price as you could buy 4 pints in a pub.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
I think the price of booze on tap compared with booze in supermarkets has been a bigger factor.
I'm very sad about the decline of pubs. I spent so much time in pubs and clubs as a kid, making lots of friends and really enjoying myself - a proper rugby boy. Drunk in the night and running it off in the morning. Over Christmas I was shocked at how desolate formerly crammed places were. There's a big difference to ten years ago.
Pubs were great for me, made me a man of the world, knocked chips off my young shoulders and taught me how to behave or else. You don't get those life-lessons drinking in the house.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
High On Licence alcohol prices have done just as much damage, plus ever more restrictive drink driving laws. Were pubs to reintroduce smoking, they'd lose more customers than they gain, particularly as those drinkers they still have, are now accustomed to going home not stinking of Eau de Farage (Smelly ashtray).
I don't understand why neither the Kippers or Cons don't have a policy with differential duty rates for on sales rather than off sales - even better one specifically for draught beers/ciders.
Reduce duty rates on wine/beer - maybe spirits - for pubs but not shops - could even be revenue neutral if you add to off sales what you reduce for on sales.
Would be a boost for pubs at the expense of the supermarkets - winner.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
I did read somewhere, that the other thing that happened at the same time as the smoking ban was supermarkets launched a massive cost cutting approach on alcohol, particularly beer and lager. At one point, you could buy 12 cans of beer for the same price as you could buy 4 pints in a pub.
I recently paid £5 for a pint in a city centre hostelry; I'd guess you could get a lot more than 12 cans for £20 in any supermarket.
One point of pedantry: Anne Frank wasn't murdered.
Adding to the tragedy is that she was very nearly liberated, dying of typhus shortly before the allies arrived.
So she is betrayed and sent to a concentration camp, gets sick and dies.
I will leave the details to you to justify the Nazis.
I wasn't being challenging. Just think it's doubly sad that - as the Nazis scrambled to kill/cover-up/escape - she escaped direct murder, very nearly got liberated but died of disease shortly before the allies arrived. I think her sister died of disease too.
I'm pretty sure the Nazis and SS who were caught were later convicted (rightly) of her and other poor people's murder anyway.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
Wait until you see the impact north of the border of reducing the drink/drive level to zero - will hammer pubs and sports clubs as well who wants to walk off the 18th and have a coffee ?
Can't even have a shandy now.
I don't know what Scottish newspapers you read, but what does surprise me is how little complaint there seems to have been in the (grown up) newspapers. Far less than the smoking ban. And a quick check for polling does seem to back this up, with some differentials which seem surprising on first glance but actually make sense if these people feel most at risk from pished motorists:
'Under new powers transferred from Westminster to Holyrood, the Scottish Government is proposing lowering the blood/alcohol from 80mg/100ml to 50mg/100m and a public consultation on the issue is currently underway.
Seven in ten Scots agree that drink drive limits should be reduced, with 55% strongly agreeing that this should happen. Around a quarter (26%) disagree that limits should be lowered.
Support for a reduction in the limit is strongest among those aged 55 or over (73%) while those aged 18-24 are most likely to oppose the move (32%). Significantly, people living in rural parts of Scotland are more likely to support moves to lower the limit, with 75% in favour.'
@politicshome: Andy Burnham tells BBC News there is a "perception" response to recent NHS problems "was more about news management than patient safety"
I watched the Andy Burnham interview last night and found it very difficult to ascertain the point he was trying to make - apart from dodging KW's very fair questions.
If Labour is like that on their supposedly strongest subject - what will they be like on the rest?
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
Wait until you see the impact north of the border of reducing the drink/drive level to zero - will hammer pubs and sports clubs as well who wants to walk off the 18th and have a coffee ?
Can't even have a shandy now.
PS And on the accuracy side, it's 50, not zero, units per volume measure, whatever they are. A shandy is perfectly workable [edit]or so it would seem though I ave not checked - in fact an elderly friend routinely has a small one before he goes home (not a pint of shandy though).
I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
Without in any way detracting from the Holocaust, its interesting to note how little note is made by comparison about the approximately simultaneous atrocities by the Japanese in which around 10,000,000 are believed killed, including around 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war.
I think that it was the “industrial process” of killing which was peculiarly horriying, to Western eyes at least. Unless I’m in error, and I’m sure someone here knows, the Japanese atrocities were more in line with the bloodlust shown by humans the world over, and for generations, in the immediate aftermath of the surrender of armies and indeed cities.
Watching the stories about the two Japanese prisoners of ISIL my wife remarked that there was something “odd” about the Japanese complaining about barbarity to prisoners! However we agreed that there was "more joy in heavan over one sinner which repenteth"
The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies. It doesn't fit the narrative though so it is ignored.
Cameron is entirely correct with his comments here, a rare moment of insight and integrity. Peter Novick wrote an excellent book, The Holocaust in American Life, which tackles this issue.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
Wait until you see the impact north of the border of reducing the drink/drive level to zero - will hammer pubs and sports clubs as well who wants to walk off the 18th and have a coffee ?
Can't even have a shandy now.
I don't know what Scottish newspapers you read, but what does surprise me is how little complaint there seems to have been in the (grown up) newspapers. Far less than the smoking ban. And a quick check for polling does seem to back this up, with some differentials which seem surprising on first glance but actually make sense if these people feel most at risk from pished motorists:
Seven in ten Scots agree that drink drive limits should be reduced, with 55% strongly agreeing that this should happen. Around a quarter (26%) disagree that limits should be lowered.
Support for a reduction in the limit is strongest among those aged 55 or over (73%) while those aged 18-24 are most likely to oppose the move (32%). Significantly, people living in rural parts of Scotland are more likely to support moves to lower the limit, with 75% in favour.'
Your link is from 2012 - bit much to expect the pollees to think through the impacts in full.
"GOLF clubs are facing a new threat to their future after seeing alcohol sales plunge by as much as 70 per cent following the introduction of the new drink-drive law.
Since the strict new limit came into effect on December 5 clubs across the region have seen bar takings, which account for a significant portion of many clubs income, often meaning the difference between profit and loss, go through the floor. Some have taken hundreds of pounds less than they would have expected over the last three weeks as players head straight off after a game or order a pot of tea at a fraction of the cost of a round of alcoholic drinks.
Country pubs have also been affected, with some seeing teatime custom from workers stopping off for a pint on their way home drying up.
Golfers fear the loss of income will send more clubs over the edge, following the closure of Lothianburn Golf Club in 2013 and Torphin Hill earlier this year, both citing dwindling memberships."
"The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies."
As Labours positioning on the NHS descends into total chaos and Farce ( Daily Telegraph) the financial Times reports "Britain's economy has grown at its fastest rate since the 2008 financial crisis" and Labours election plans already start to crumble....... There are still 98 days to go, several debates and 3 weeks on the hustings and Burnham not guaranteed a cabinet position even if they did win?
At this rate Labour will be sub 25
POEMWAS.
Agreed. And an election Budget still to come. That alone will most likely add a minimum 1-2% to the Conservative share.
Will it? It hasn't happened with previous Budgets or, indeed, the last Autumn Statement.
"The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies."
Have you got a source?
The Little Black of Communism, Aleksander Solzhenitsyn...
As Labours positioning on the NHS descends into total chaos and Farce ( Daily Telegraph) the financial Times reports "Britain's economy has grown at its fastest rate since the 2008 financial crisis" and Labours election plans already start to crumble as the Tories trends towards leads increase...... There are still 98 days to go, several debates and 3 weeks on the hustings .........and Burnham not guaranteed a cabinet position even if they did win?
At this rate Labour will be sub 25
POEMWAS.
Very early days. But so far not one of Ed's best weeks. Milburn has been saying that Lab are running a rerun of 1992. But we are still 100 days away. The NHS card is being played early. Jennifer's ear wasn't raised until the actual campaign with Kinnock.
The NHS is traditionally there last redoubt, their fall back position When all else has failed they stand fast at the NHS barricade and pray for deliverance.
All they now need to do is start singing " men of Harlech" as the Zulus advance and the picture is entirely complete.
Don't like the parallel. Remember that the men behind the barricade triumphed in the end...
And yet, to my mind, there is a worse place, not in scale, but in the intensity of horror: the Khmer Rouge torture garden of Tuol Sleng, alias S-21. It's in the hot dusty heart of Phnom Penh. I wrote a piece about it a few years ago, and took photos.
Indeed. The only reason Pol Pot didn't top the list of genocidal maniacs was because there weren't enough Cambodians, as it is he managed to murder 2.5 million out of a population of 8 million.
I went to Belsen 30+ years ago. Like Moses, RodCrosby & Tim B I was struck by the “atmosphere" of the place; it was really cold and cruel. (And we were there on a sunny summer day). No birds singing there, either. Dreadful, dreadful place.
A granddaughter was a teacher on a school party which went to Auschwitz a couple of years ago. She told me that what really broke her was seeing the piles of children’s shoes!
A close friend went to Oradour-sur-Glane in France. What happened there was - well there are no words - but a mere fraction of what happened in the camps. But he said that it was the first time he felt the presence of evil, almost as if it were physically there.
"The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies."
Have you got a source?
The Little Black of Communism, Aleksander Solzhenitsyn...
I mean the Black Book of Communism edited by Stephane Courtois.
Nazi state official Rudolf Höss organized the infamous death camp in Auschwitz. According to Höss:
The Reich Security Head Office issued to the commandants a full collection of reports concerning the Russian concentration camps. These described in great detail the conditions in, and organization of, the Russian camps, as supplied by former prisoners who had managed to escape. Great emphasis was placed on the fact that the Russians, by their massive employment of forced labor, had destroyed whole peoples.
@ianbirrell: Labour going to struggle with an election campaign based on idea that it was ok to 'privatise' 4.4% of the NHS but evil to 'privatise' 5.9%
Dan Hodges was long since lost to Labour, but the alienation that the likes of John Rentoul and Rafael Behr to the current incarnation of the party should trouble Labour loyalists, who can hope for at best sullen support from former New Labour supporters even if Labour makes no concessions to the anti-austerity left to win back those flirting with the Greens.
One fewer 'trump card' in the "inevitable" (sic) Indy negotiations......
Given that the SNP aim is to remove Trident from Scotland then that's a win for the SNP.
Its only a 'win' in a negotiation if your opposite wants to keep it there.....if they have already moved it, or are ready to do so, what do you have to offer in return for something you want?
Removal of Trident is a DEMAND, if their demand has already been acceded to then it is a boost for their negotiating position. They no longer have to offer a concession for the removal of Trident.
Dan Hodges was long since lost to Labour, but the alienation that the likes of John Rentoul and Rafael Behr to the current incarnation of the party should trouble Labour loyalists,
RE: Scottish drink driving. Typically in Scotland the number of people killed by a drunk driver is about 6 a year. On top of this are the 2/3 of deaths where the drink driver is the victim.
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
"The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies."
Have you got a source?
The Little Black of Communism, Aleksander Solzhenitsyn...
Arguably the industrialisation of killing was perfected by the Aztecs, several centuries before Communism or Nazism.
At times of peak human sacrifice, the blood-gored, flayed-skin-wearing priests of Tenochtitlan could really do the business. At the consecration of the Templo Mayor, in 1487, for instance, the Aztecs themselves claimed they sacrificed 80,000 people over four days. Most historians believe this is an exaggeration, however, and reckon something like 20,000 people were killed.
But still, 20,000! That's one person killed every fifteen seconds, without cease, 24 hours a day, through four solid days. Truly Germanic levels of efficiency.
It is said that, by the end, the entire city was ankle deep in human blood.
Even that palls, compared to some of the mass executions carried out by the Mongols. Even if we allow for exaggeration, there's no reason to doubt that Mongol armies were able to execute tens of thousands of people within a few hours, when they captured cities like Merv, Herat, and Baghdad.
The reason we're all here is because homo sapiens committed genocide against the neanderthals.
I doubt that very much, there is no credible evidence to suggest a campaign of extermination, they were just out-competed in evolutionary terms and faded away like the dodo. There is evidence of coexistence for about 5,000 years, and even interbreeding.
I've actually been to Auschwitz TWICE, because I enjoyed it so much - no, I jest, I went the second time because I had to (long story, wedding in Poland, desire amongst guests for antidote to laughter etc)
It is horribly bleak.
And yet, to my mind, there is a worse place, not in scale, but in the intensity of horror: the Khmer Rouge torture garden of Tuol Sleng, alias S-21. It's in the hot dusty heart of Phnom Penh. I wrote a piece about it a few years ago, and took photos.
Tuol Sleng is unspeakably horrible. At least there was some tacit acknowledgement by the Nazis that what they were doing needed to be kept in the shadows, hidden away in the woods. Tuol Sleng is a secondary school in suburbia.
It was also happening in my adult life. With Auschwitz being over 70 years ago, it feels like another time. Back in the days when we did wretched things. We take comfort from not having world wars. Not dropping nukes to flatten entire cities. We have moved on.
But Tuol Sleng was in my adult life. While I was going to work, so were the Khmer Rouge torturers.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
High On Licence alcohol prices have done just as much damage, plus ever more restrictive drink driving laws. Were pubs to reintroduce smoking, they'd lose more customers than they gain, particularly as those drinkers they still have, are now accustomed to going home not stinking of Eau de Farage (Smelly ashtray).
There are a lot of factors that make running a pub something that's very difficult to do profitably. Cheap booze in supermarkets, the exploitative system of ties, the impact of the recession. Anyone in the trade will tell you though, that the smoking ban made a hard job harder.
I do remember at the time that it was strongly argued that large numbers of families with children were deterred from going to pubs because of smoking. But, the large numbers of families with children just didn't materialise when the ban came into force.
I reckon Sturgeon knows this and she is too canny to make it a dealbreaker.
She wants a deal breaker.
The SNP need a Tory government to point fingers at and drive their independence campaign forward, Ed doesn't give them that. For domestic reasons they cant be seen to support a Tory government, but they can do plenty to make the failure to form a coalition "Labour's fault".
Though I have noticed that the view "from outside the bubble" is often strikingly similar to the view "from inside the bubble"
Look no further than the general idea from both PB and the "bubble" that Cameron's stance of the debate's was a major error from him - Now I ask, how many Con leads did we have before Cameron said he wanted the Green's in the debates against the Con leads we've had since...?
But that's nit-picking. You and Robert and TSE and everyone at PB do a grand effort with the website.
Here and UKPR are the best political blog's in the country, IMO.
RE: Scottish drink driving. Typically in Scotland the number of people killed by a drunk driver is about 6 a year. On top of this are the 2/3 of deaths where the drink driver is the victim.
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
I do remember at the time that it was strongly argued that large numbers of families with children were deterred from going to pubs because of smoking. But, the large numbers of families with children just didn't materialise when the ban came into force.
I can't speak for families with children, but my wife and I used to enjoy going to the pub for a snack and some fine Harvey's Bitter, but some years ago we were finally driven out by the smoke and eventually stopped going altogether. Now that pubs are pleasant places again, we haven't really got back into the habit. I think that the pub trade made a major mistake in allowing pubs to be completely taken over by smokers in the first place: once the customers have gone, it is very hard to get them back.
RE: Scottish drink driving. Typically in Scotland the number of people killed by a drunk driver is about 6 a year. On top of this are the 2/3 of deaths where the drink driver is the victim.
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
Thanks for posting - any data to back up ?
I also suspect that this is a classic SNP wedge issue - using the powers they have just to make Scotland "different" - with no thought to the consequences.
Watching the interview it was absolutely astounding that he was so incoherent in his remarks and seemed to be against privatization in one moment but for it the next. My Sister is in a Private Nursing Home paid by the NHS, as are so many of the elderly, and I cannot understand whether he was saying that this would be banned under his proposals as it is in the private sector or if it would continue. If labour ban the use of the private sector nursing homes where on earth is the care going to come from. It just seemed that he was trying to make the case for complete state and union control over the NHS and that would be an absolute disaster. For this to be labour's flagship policy it defies believe.
I do remember at the time that it was strongly argued that large numbers of families with children were deterred from going to pubs because of smoking. But, the large numbers of families with children just didn't materialise when the ban came into force.
I can't speak for families with children, but my wife and I used to enjoy going to the pub for a snack and some fine Harvey's Bitter, but some years ago we were finally driven out by the smoke and eventually stopped going altogether. Now that pubs are pleasant places again, we haven't really got back into the habit. I think that the pub trade made a major mistake in allowing pubs to be completely taken over by smokers in the first place: once the customers have gone, it is very hard to get them back.
Many pubs haven't helped themselves by charging ever higher prices, whilst still expecting their clientele to be happy with dirty non functioning toilets, sticky carpets, and dirty bars. In the old days the smell of stale cigarette smoke hid the stink from poor cleaning regimes. Now it's all too obvious which hostelries can't be bothered, and customers vote with their feet.
One fewer 'trump card' in the "inevitable" (sic) Indy negotiations......
Given that the SNP aim is to remove Trident from Scotland then that's a win for the SNP.
And the loss of jobs? In a 'united Kingdom moving for no good reason is pretty costly. Wales is not ideal because of the oil terminal.
The loss of jobs was hugely exaggerated - IIRC Labour were touting 45K jobs at the same time as MoD was giving 512 as the jobs dependent on Trident.
Neither of the figures are plausible to be honest.
I assume that 512 is the direct employment, but does not take into account any suppliers who might move, and the impact on the local service economy of the loss of high paying jobs at the site. But 45K seems a ludicrous exaggeration.
RE: Scottish drink driving. Typically in Scotland the number of people killed by a drunk driver is about 6 a year. On top of this are the 2/3 of deaths where the drink driver is the victim.
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
Thanks for posting - any data to back up ?
I also suspect that this is a classic SNP wedge issue - using the powers they have just to make Scotland "different" - with no thought to the consequences.
Different from whom? Not Europe, by an dlarge, which ma suggest that England etc. is out of step.
Also - a bit less please of trying to find something wrong with Scotland so you can have another moan about the SNP. It's not a SNP thing. Unanimous vote at Holyrood.
RE: Scottish drink driving. Typically in Scotland the number of people killed by a drunk driver is about 6 a year. On top of this are the 2/3 of deaths where the drink driver is the victim.
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
Thanks for posting - any data to back up ?
I also suspect that this is a classic SNP wedge issue - using the powers they have just to make Scotland "different" - with no thought to the consequences.
Different from whom? Not Europe, by an dlarge, which ma suggest that England etc. is out of step.
Also - a bit less please of trying to find something wrong with Scotland so you can have another moan about the SNP. It's not a SNP thing. Unanimous vote at Holyrood.
Do you have any data on numbers killed and the blood alcohol levels of the drivers at the time ?
I'm not being partisan here - I think it is crazy and very important that South of the border doesn't suffer the same law in the future.
Another reason to avoid them. UKIP aren't very bright.
The ban on smoking in pubs has been a factor in their decline. People didn't return to pubs once they were made smoke-free.
I did read somewhere, that the other thing that happened at the same time as the smoking ban was supermarkets launched a massive cost cutting approach on alcohol, particularly beer and lager. At one point, you could buy 12 cans of beer for the same price as you could buy 4 pints in a pub.
Preloading is not a new phenomenon. As a 15/16yo in the late eighties I recall fondly getting hammered on a bottle of Merrydown and a can of super for about the price of two pints before hitting the pub. I'm sure other localities had their own versions
Andy Burnham is going to need outsourced medical attention. Kirsty Wark just tore him a new one on Newsnight last night but the part was this.
Wark - the coalition has only increased the private sector by 1.5% whereas Labour increased it 4.4% Burnham - yeah but Tories are continuing our policy which is bad..
Ye gods
I suggest anyone who has not seen this should because if it were an NHS hospital they would be declaring a major incident.
Comments
"Full prison sentences should be served, parole on case-by-case basis"
Although, I hear that bingo-going women are particularly tamping at missing housey for a fag.
I've visited Sachsenhausen Concentration Camp just outside Berlin - the Germans have done a good job documenting the horrors of both the Nazis and their Communist successors....
I saw the model of Auschwitz which completely dominated a large room (in the Imperial War Museum Exhibition?) - then was stunned to realise that this vast model represented about one twentieth of the whole camp, illustrated by a photograph on the wall behind....
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.uk/Labour-leader-Ed-Miliband-looks-remarkably-like/story-25933771-detail/story.html
Figure of fun in a children's film.
It was a different age of course, one where annexation was still considered plausible. Until Putin came along we thought that time was over.
And after Moseley we thought it could not happen here.
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
Good words on the concentration camps - very sad.
One point of pedantry: Anne Frank wasn't murdered.
Adding to the tragedy is that she was very nearly liberated, dying of typhus shortly before the allies arrived.
UKIP will increase personal allowance to the level of full-time minimum wage earnings (approx £13,500 by next election).
– Inheritance tax will be abolished.
– We will introduce a 35p income tax rate between £42,285 and £55,000, whereupon the 40p rate becomes payable.
– UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.
Though, I assumed they had missed out an "n" in Reckless Cuts
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8bbu1zIQAAM_zL.jpg
I can't understand why we didn't do what some mainland European countries did and have smoking and non smoking areas.
I will leave the details to you to justify the Nazis.
Can't even have a shandy now.
I'm very sad about the decline of pubs. I spent so much time in pubs and clubs as a kid, making lots of friends and really enjoying myself - a proper rugby boy. Drunk in the night and running it off in the morning. Over Christmas I was shocked at how desolate formerly crammed places were. There's a big difference to ten years ago.
Pubs were great for me, made me a man of the world, knocked chips off my young shoulders and taught me how to behave or else. You don't get those life-lessons drinking in the house.
I hardly ever drink at all now....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IDUbcmjVI&feature=youtu.be
Reduce duty rates on wine/beer - maybe spirits - for pubs but not shops - could even be revenue neutral if you add to off sales what you reduce for on sales.
Would be a boost for pubs at the expense of the supermarkets - winner.
I'm pretty sure the Nazis and SS who were caught were later convicted (rightly) of her and other poor people's murder anyway.
OK, cliche, but couldn't they do something a bit original? The Conservative poster was re-hashed to death on Twitter.
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3071/Majority-of-Scots-support-lowering-the-drink-drive-limit.aspx
'Under new powers transferred from Westminster to Holyrood, the Scottish Government is proposing lowering the blood/alcohol from 80mg/100ml to 50mg/100m and a public consultation on the issue is currently underway.
Seven in ten Scots agree that drink drive limits should be reduced, with 55% strongly agreeing that this should happen. Around a quarter (26%) disagree that limits should be lowered.
Support for a reduction in the limit is strongest among those aged 55 or over (73%) while those aged 18-24 are most likely to oppose the move (32%). Significantly, people living in rural parts of Scotland are more likely to support moves to lower the limit, with 75% in favour.'
*cough*Mid-staffs*cough*
'Truly appalling': Welsh ambulance response times slump to record low - with just 42% now hitting the eight-minute target
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/truly-appalling-welsh-ambulance-response-8530811
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kXtw0-WdLFo/hqdefault.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8bbu1zIQAAM_zL.jpg
http://www.markpack.org.uk/123676/sneak-peak-inside-liberal-democrat-general-election-hq/
If Labour is like that on their supposedly strongest subject - what will they be like on the rest?
Also see this morning that Tsipras has stated that Greece will NOT default on its debt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31016261
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/1579575/David-Cameron-under-fire-over-Auschwitz-gaffe.html
Cameron is entirely correct with his comments here, a rare moment of insight and integrity. Peter Novick wrote an excellent book, The Holocaust in American Life, which tackles this issue.
"GOLF clubs are facing a new threat to their future after seeing alcohol sales plunge by as much as 70 per cent following the introduction of the new drink-drive law.
Since the strict new limit came into effect on December 5 clubs across the region have seen bar takings, which account for a significant portion of many clubs income, often meaning the difference between profit and loss, go through the floor. Some have taken hundreds of pounds less than they would have expected over the last three weeks as players head straight off after a game or order a pot of tea at a fraction of the cost of a round of alcoholic drinks.
Country pubs have also been affected, with some seeing teatime custom from workers stopping off for a pint on their way home drying up.
Golfers fear the loss of income will send more clubs over the edge, following the closure of Lothianburn Golf Club in 2013 and Torphin Hill earlier this year, both citing dwindling memberships."
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/drink-drive-law-change-killing-golf-club-bars-1-3644189
"The industrial killing process was instituted by the Bolsheviks before in the 20s and was a clear motivator, and inspiration, for the Nazis and their allies."
Have you got a source?
1. Cut Nigel's tax
2. Let Nigel smoke in pubs
3, Get rid of the foreigners on Nigel's train
Simpy incomprehensible.
And yet we see similar evil happening now.
Nazi state official Rudolf Höss organized the infamous death camp in Auschwitz. According to Höss:
The Reich Security Head Office issued to the commandants a full collection of reports concerning the Russian concentration camps. These described in great detail the conditions in, and organization of, the Russian camps, as supplied by former prisoners who had managed to escape. Great emphasis was placed on the fact that the Russians, by their massive employment of forced labor, had destroyed whole peoples.
https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=GcvLJ3esGgc
Assad:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23927399
ISIS:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2814420/Massacre-tribes-228-murdered-just-two-days-ISIS-militants-exact-bloody-revenge-Sunni-leaders-sided-Iraqi-government-against-them.html
Bad, badder and baddest. Is Assad the Joseph Stalin of the Middle East ?
A win for the SNP
Will this one blow up as spectacularly as the others?
@BBCNormanS: Jeremy Hunt says major incident row proof of labour attempt to "weaponise" the nhs
Most of these deaths are also where the driver is blitzed, not slightly over the old limit. There may even be in some years none killed by a driver slightly over the new limit. But let us not use statistics when taking irrational decisions that put at risk the enjoyment/livelihood of hundreds of thousands of drivers....
It was also happening in my adult life. With Auschwitz being over 70 years ago, it feels like another time. Back in the days when we did wretched things. We take comfort from not having world wars. Not dropping nukes to flatten entire cities. We have moved on.
But Tuol Sleng was in my adult life. While I was going to work, so were the Khmer Rouge torturers.
I do remember at the time that it was strongly argued that large numbers of families with children were deterred from going to pubs because of smoking. But, the large numbers of families with children just didn't materialise when the ban came into force.
The SNP need a Tory government to point fingers at and drive their independence campaign forward, Ed doesn't give them that. For domestic reasons they cant be seen to support a Tory government, but they can do plenty to make the failure to form a coalition "Labour's fault".
Though I have noticed that the view "from outside the bubble" is often strikingly similar to the view "from inside the bubble"
Look no further than the general idea from both PB and the "bubble" that Cameron's stance of the debate's was a major error from him - Now I ask, how many Con leads did we have before Cameron said he wanted the Green's in the debates against the Con leads we've had since...?
But that's nit-picking. You and Robert and TSE and everyone at PB do a grand effort with the website.
Here and UKPR are the best political blog's in the country, IMO.
I also suspect that this is a classic SNP wedge issue - using the powers they have just to make Scotland "different" - with no thought to the consequences.
I assume that 512 is the direct employment, but does not take into account any suppliers who might move, and the impact on the local service economy of the loss of high paying jobs at the site. But 45K seems a ludicrous exaggeration.
Also - a bit less please of trying to find something wrong with Scotland so you can have another moan about the SNP. It's not a SNP thing. Unanimous vote at Holyrood.
I'm not being partisan here - I think it is crazy and very important that South of the border doesn't suffer the same law in the future.
Wark - the coalition has only increased the private sector by 1.5% whereas Labour increased it 4.4%
Burnham - yeah but Tories are continuing our policy which is bad..
Ye gods
I suggest anyone who has not seen this should because if it were an NHS hospital they would be declaring a major incident.