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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What’s dangerous for Farage about this UKIP defection is th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,702
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What’s dangerous for Farage about this UKIP defection is that it’ll raise questions about his leadership style

The S Telegraph story on defection of UKIP MEP Amjad Bashir to CON http://t.co/LZEqNbimos pic.twitter.com/zk7B8nq5BC

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,571
    edited January 2015
    There's something odd about this story.

    I hope the Tory party have done all the appropriate due diligence.

    But Luke 15:7 applies here
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Second after the cheater TSE
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    wumperwumper Posts: 35
    so a twister defects from one corrupt party to another corrupt party, i hope they are happy together because they deserve each other
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    There's something odd about this story.

    I hope the Tory party have done all the appropriate due diligence.

    But Luke 15:7 applies here

    If the Tories wont' have him then what about the LDs - just one MEP?

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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    What questions? Farage has taken Ukip from a party that did quite well in Euro elections to winning those elections and standing to winning fair chunk of votes - if not seats - in the general election.

    Nick Clegg on the other hand....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,571
    edited January 2015

    There's something odd about this story.

    I hope the Tory party have done all the appropriate due diligence.

    But Luke 15:7 applies here

    If the Tories wont' have him then what about the LDs - just one MEP?

    The way the SNP and Greens are surging, I'm surprised he hasn't defected to them.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    There's something odd about this story.

    I hope the Tory party have done all the appropriate due diligence.

    But Luke 15:7 applies here

    Agreed.

    UKIP have supposedly handed evidence over to the police. It better be something serious as they will come across as spiteful if it amounts to nothing.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,003
    edited January 2015
    The "howmanyUKIPsuspensions" website you mention in the thread header is a gift because it allows us to point out yet again how many Tory and Labour politicians have committed serious and in some cases criminal acts and have NOT been suspended.

    Homophobes, racists and criminals with political ambitions should surely elect to go Tory or Labour as they have far more chance of still being in office after they have been found out.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    What it raises questions about is a man that puts his name to a code of conduct, and then openly breaks it. I'd be ashamed to have such a man in my party, and I hope that principled Conservatives feel the same.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2015
    Interesting that he didn't mention racism as one of the reasons for leaving.

    Isn't that the chap who jumped ship to the Tories to avoid losing his seat as a Lib Dem? There was some obscure rule which prevented the Tories from getting rid of him and are now stuck with him?
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    edited January 2015
    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him
  • Options
    Ack, the most appalling thing in that list of Kippers taking the defection well, is this

    "Their born corrupt"

    I emotionally break down at some people's appalling lack of knowledge when it comes to the English language.
  • Options
    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2015
    If you take randoms on Twitter as being representative of anything, you're an idiot. Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.
  • Options
    Socrates said:

    If you take randoms on Twitter as being representative of anything, you're an idiot. Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.
    I believe it is facebook and not twitter.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    FPT.
    Good to see Scottish government did not grovel like UK ....
    http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    I saw him on the Look North bit of the Sunday Politics and wasn't impressed.

    With regards to TSE's post below, I don't know anything about the selection process but I really hope he wasn't selected because of his ethnicity/faith. Positive discrimination is something that should be left to the likes of the Labour Party.

    I can kind of understand why Ukip want to push the likes of Suzanne Evans and Diane James, as it might help them attract more women voters. But they're actually very articulate and capable politicians so they're where they are on merit. That Louise Bours on the other hand really irritates me!
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    I saw him on the Look North bit of the Sunday Politics and wasn't impressed.

    With regards to TSE's post below, I don't know anything about the selection process but I really hope he wasn't selected because of his ethnicity/faith. Positive discrimination is something that should be left to the likes of the Labour Party.

    I can kind of understand why Ukip want to push the likes of Suzanne Evans and Diane James, as it might help them attract more women voters. But they're actually very articulate and capable politicians so they're where they are on merit. That Louise Bours on the other hand really irritates me!
    I guess when you are accused of racism it is tempting to let any non white person be seen as supporting your party. I reckon Bashir was only given prominence because of his background helped shut people up who said ukip are anti asian or muslim

    Im surprised more hasn't been made of ukip sacking two BAMEs in a week!


    The Sunday times scoop is prob a lot worse than the Bashir story I'm guessing
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    "It was being said by leading Tories last year that Lynton Crosby had a “lot up his sleeve” which would be deployed in the run up to polling day. Maybe tonight’s news is one of them."
    Mike Smithson

    In other words you are saying that the Tories bribed him to defect. Successfully, it seems.
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    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    malcolmg said:

    FPT.
    Good to see Scottish government did not grovel like UK ....
    http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379

    Did they do the same for the death of Thatcher?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    MikeK said:

    "It was being said by leading Tories last year that Lynton Crosby had a “lot up his sleeve” which would be deployed in the run up to polling day. Maybe tonight’s news is one of them."
    Mike Smithson

    In other words you are saying that the Tories bribed him to defect. Successfully, it seems.

    Or he had expressed an interest in defecting long before today?
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Socrates

    'Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.'

    He qualified as a solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales in 1997 and rose to becoming an equity partner very quickly specialising in cases of serious fraud defence work.

    What's the point in trying to smear him it just looks idiotic.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,946
    isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    I saw him on the Look North bit of the Sunday Politics and wasn't impressed.

    With regards to TSE's post below, I don't know anything about the selection process but I really hope he wasn't selected because of his ethnicity/faith. Positive discrimination is something that should be left to the likes of the Labour Party.

    I can kind of understand why Ukip want to push the likes of Suzanne Evans and Diane James, as it might help them attract more women voters. But they're actually very articulate and capable politicians so they're where they are on merit. That Louise Bours on the other hand really irritates me!
    I guess when you are accused of racism it is tempting to let any non white person be seen as supporting your party. I reckon Bashir was only given prominence because of his background helped shut people up who said ukip are anti asian or muslim

    Im surprised more hasn't been made of ukip sacking two BAMEs in a week!


    The Sunday times scoop is prob a lot worse than the Bashir story I'm guessing
    Maybe. The Times "exposes" of UKIP have been pretty tame hitherto.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    When do the paper previews become available? If its not front page it wont be a big story.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited January 2015
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    I saw him on the Look North bit of the Sunday Politics and wasn't impressed.

    With regards to TSE's post below, I don't know anything about the selection process but I really hope he wasn't selected because of his ethnicity/faith. Positive discrimination is something that should be left to the likes of the Labour Party.

    I can kind of understand why Ukip want to push the likes of Suzanne Evans and Diane James, as it might help them attract more women voters. But they're actually very articulate and capable politicians so they're where they are on merit. That Louise Bours on the other hand really irritates me!
    Funnily, she more than irritates me. Another possible defector?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,226
    malcolmg said:

    FPT.
    Good to see Scottish government did not grovel like UK ....
    http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379

    Yes: good for them and for Ruth Davidson's comment.

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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    FPT
    Ah good old Malcolm --- ''Good to see Scottish government did not grovel like UK ....
    http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379''

    Yes - who wants to grovel to the man who put a firework up the backside of what passed for poor Wee Ecks economic policy.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
    How many times do you want me to say that I think it was tokenism? This is the hat trick by the way
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    MikeK said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    I saw him on the Look North bit of the Sunday Politics and wasn't impressed.

    With regards to TSE's post below, I don't know anything about the selection process but I really hope he wasn't selected because of his ethnicity/faith. Positive discrimination is something that should be left to the likes of the Labour Party.

    I can kind of understand why Ukip want to push the likes of Suzanne Evans and Diane James, as it might help them attract more women voters. But they're actually very articulate and capable politicians so they're where they are on merit. That Louise Bours on the other hand really irritates me!
    Funnily, she more than irritates me. Another possible defector?
    I like the fact that on her Wiki page it says she was preceded by Nick Griffin!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louise_Bours
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    I imagine this might be the first of many the Lynton Crosby has up his sleeve. I've got 2 stories on them myself which will probably be national.

    Interestingly when canvassing today, I came across 4 hoouseholds saying UKIP as soon as I spoke. I explored it in a bit further detail. In the end they themselves said they have no policies and they probably won't end up voting for them.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Ack, the most appalling thing in that list of Kippers taking the defection well, is this

    "Their born corrupt"

    I emotionally break down at some people's appalling lack of knowledge when it comes to the English language.

    In this "spell-check" age there is no distinction between:

    their ; there

    you're ; your

    were ; where

    etc.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
    How many times do you want me to say that I think it was tokenism? This is the hat trick by the way
    So UKIP is really another political party after all; except led by a dictator.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    woody662 said:

    I imagine this might be the first of many the Lynton Crosby has up his sleeve. I've got 2 stories on them myself which will probably be national.

    Interestingly when canvassing today, I came across 4 hoouseholds saying UKIP as soon as I spoke. I explored it in a bit further detail. In the end they themselves said they have no policies and they probably won't end up voting for them.

    Where do the Tories stand on grammar schools?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    surbiton said:

    Ack, the most appalling thing in that list of Kippers taking the defection well, is this

    "Their born corrupt"

    I emotionally break down at some people's appalling lack of knowledge when it comes to the English language.

    In this "spell-check" age there is no distinction between:

    their ; there

    you're ; your

    were ; where

    etc.
    May not be long before grammar checking is an option on these things. Spelling is a relatively new feature for internet browsers.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Socrates said:

    If you take randoms on Twitter as being representative of anything, you're an idiot. Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.
    Not bright, and yet UKIP had given him a number of roles.

    Looks like a rather pathetic smear to me.
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    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT.
    Good to see Scottish government did not grovel like UK ....
    http://www.kaleidoscot.com/scotland-not-fly-flag-half-mast-king-abdullah-2379

    Yes: good for them and for Ruth Davidson's comment.

    Scottish Labour are such a destructive influence on Scottish politics. It is part of the reason (albeit perhaps a smaller part) of their current demise. They refuse to join any form of consensus, the SNP work with the Tories, the Lib Dems and the Greens, Labour seem determined to block anything that isn't put forward by them.

    It is a very good thing that they are finished. It's a shame that the AMS will stop them being removed completely from Scottish politics - at least for a few more years.
  • Options
    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

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    maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,391

    Socrates said:

    If you take randoms on Twitter as being representative of anything, you're an idiot. Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.
    Not bright, and yet UKIP had given him a number of roles.

    Looks like a rather pathetic smear to me.
    You do realise you're speaking about the wrong guy right? Awkward...
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2015
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

    Amjad Bashir met with a banned terrorist organisation.

    Well done Dave, quite the political coup.
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    dodradedodrade Posts: 595
    One of the remarkable aspects of UKIP is that it has continued to grow in spite of a very high turnover of MEP's and numerous splits which have traditionally stopped the far right making progress in this country, but it is bound to take its toll sometime and they seem to be buckling under the pressure somewhat in the last couple of months at the worst possible time.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    maaarsh said:

    Socrates said:

    If you take randoms on Twitter as being representative of anything, you're an idiot. Apparently Sajjam Karim isn't too bright.
    Not bright, and yet UKIP had given him a number of roles.

    Looks like a rather pathetic smear to me.
    You do realise you're speaking about the wrong guy right? Awkward...
    The watcher is david Brent?

    http://youtu.be/Cir05JyEsV0
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    Thought Dan himself had defected for a moment there.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Good evening, everyone.

    This won't register at all with the average voter, unless it's the pebble starting an avalanche, or there's something nefarious.

    Greek election tomorrow. Any ETA for results?
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    'It was being said by leading Tories last year that Lynton Crosby had a “lot up his sleeve” which would be deployed in the run up to polling day. Maybe tonight’s news is one of them.'

    Could be Mike. Crosby knows every trick in the book. You don't take on - and defeat - as monstrous and as ruthless a political machine as the Australian Labor Party without considerable guile. UKIP could be a hollowed-out and smouldering husk by the time Crosby's finished with them. They'll be cries of foul play from the Kippers, of course, but by then they'll be shrieks of broken men in the wilderness, and no one will much care.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
    How many times do you want me to say that I think it was tokenism? This is the hat trick by the way
    So UKIP is really another political party after all; except led by a dictator.
    I never thought the set up of the party was any different to any other to be honest... It's quite difficult to be

    But they are different in my views because they want out of europe, openly criticise mass immigration and multiculturalism, and favour grammar schools... And it's policies that matter to me not party politics
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I've just been reminded that Nigel Farage will be on Marr tomorrow morning.

    I bet it gets a vast audience.
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    YouGov... must have YouGov :)
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MP_SE said:

    http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

    Amjad Bashir met with a banned terrorist organisation.

    Well done Dave, quite the political coup.

    Looks like this chap will do anything to get the limelight !

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited January 2015
    Je Suis UKIP.

    I see Labour supporters are getting in on the Smearathon too.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    MP_SE said:

    http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

    Amjad Bashir met with a banned terrorist organisation.

    Well done Dave, quite the political coup.

    Amjad the northern Luther Rahman?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
    How many times do you want me to say that I think it was tokenism? This is the hat trick by the way
    So UKIP is really another political party after all; except led by a dictator.
    I never thought the set up of the party was any different to any other to be honest... It's quite difficult to be

    But they are different in my views because they want out of europe, openly criticise mass immigration and multiculturalism, and favour grammar schools... And it's policies that matter to me not party politics
    When you supported the Labour party, what were your views on:

    immigration
    multiculturism
    grammar schools
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Also tomorrow the Greek GE. It doesn't rain but it pours.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

    Amjad Bashir met with a banned terrorist organisation.

    Well done Dave, quite the political coup.

    Amjad the northern Luther Rahman?
    I don't think Amjad could win any election where he was himself the only candidate. Lutfur Rahman can win. Whether the established political parties like it or not is another matter.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    So in summary, he was a cock and we're glad to see the back of him. That's the kipper stance?
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    MP_SE said:

    http://order-order.com/2015/01/24/amjad-bashir-met-with-banned-terror-organisation/

    Amjad Bashir met with a banned terrorist organisation.

    Well done Dave, quite the political coup.

    FPT:
    Would the Tories be wise for taking in someone even the Kippers think is "dodgy"?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    saddened said:

    So in summary, he was a cock and we're glad to see the back of him. That's the kipper stance?

    AS from noon today.
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited January 2015
    The plot thickens:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/253620071/Bradford-selection-UKIP

    I cannot remember where I read it but I am sure I read that he refused to turn up to a meeting to explain himself on Tuesday. He met Cameron on Friday and defected today. It may be that he jumped before he pushed but I am sure all will become apparent over the coming days.

    Exciting times. Especially with the Greek election tomorrow.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    RobD said:

    surbiton said:

    Ack, the most appalling thing in that list of Kippers taking the defection well, is this

    "Their born corrupt"

    I emotionally break down at some people's appalling lack of knowledge when it comes to the English language.

    In this "spell-check" age there is no distinction between:

    their ; there

    you're ; your

    were ; where

    etc.
    May not be long before grammar checking is an option on these things. Spelling is a relatively new feature for internet browsers.
    Followed by political correctness auto-checking!

    Remember "Tyson Homosexual"?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    YouGov... must have YouGov :)

    Steady old chap. Stiff upper lip and all that, dontchya know.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. M, I remember that.

    That was a weird one.
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    edited January 2015
    How the public react to defections depends on how convincing the arguments are for the defection. If it's seen as attention seeking or opportunistic then it won't be given any credence at all. I'm not sure about this case, he doesn't seem like he'll gain much personally from this but his reasons for leaving are pretty lame, as if UKIP only started being unprofessional and policy light recently.

    Oh and people don't really care about MEPs in general.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    surbiton said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Bashir isnt an impressive politician or speaker by any stretch, and i am quite surprised The tories accepted him and Cameron has directly associated himself with him

    And yet he had so many ukip roles.. surely it wasn't tokenism?
    How many times do you want me to say that I think it was tokenism? This is the hat trick by the way
    So UKIP is really another political party after all; except led by a dictator.
    I never thought the set up of the party was any different to any other to be honest... It's quite difficult to be

    But they are different in my views because they want out of europe, openly criticise mass immigration and multiculturalism, and favour grammar schools... And it's policies that matter to me not party politics
    When you supported the Labour party, what were your views on:

    immigration
    multiculturism
    grammar schools
    The first two I was quite in favour of, I was almost Green like in favouring a free for all where anyone in the world can go where they please, and passports were a bit of a nonsense etc

    Multiculturalism... I was alright with although never have made any concessions to anyone in account of race or religion which I thought, well still think, is patronising

    I still think it would be great if mass immigration and multiculturalism worked, but I just don't think they do, and actually think they create problems rather than are just neutral

    Grammar schools.. I had bpnever really thought about them. I went to a comp and there were no grammar schools on offer... When I thought about them they made sense to me

    To be honest I voted labour because my family did and I never thought much about politics. Sounds glib, but it was only when I grew up a bit and started really analysing politics, policies etc that I stopped voting for them




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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited January 2015
    Reckless and Carswell set the standard of resigning and then facing their employers ( the electorate ) in these situations. Bashir will be expected to meet that standard or be despised.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    MP_SE said:

    The plot thickens:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/253620071/Bradford-selection-UKIP

    I cannot remember where I read it but I am sure I read that he refused to turn up to a meeting to explain himself on Tuesday. He met Cameron on Friday and defected today. It may be that he jumped before he pushed but I am sure all will become apparent over the coming days.

    Exciting times. Especially with the Greek election tomorrow.

    A most interesting document, is it now in the hands of the police?
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    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Artist said:

    How the public react to defections depends on how convincing the arguments are for the defection. If it's seen as attention seeking or opportunistic then it won't be given any credence at all. I'm not sure about this case, he doesn't seem like he'll gain much personally from this but his reasons for leaving are pretty lame, as if UKIP only started being unprofessional and policy light recently.

    Oh and people don't really care about MEPs in general.

    How many actually know what an MEP is ? Even if they vote for them.

    How many can name them, if they knew what sort of animal an MEP was ?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    tlg86 said:

    woody662 said:

    I imagine this might be the first of many the Lynton Crosby has up his sleeve. I've got 2 stories on them myself which will probably be national.

    Interestingly when canvassing today, I came across 4 hoouseholds saying UKIP as soon as I spoke. I explored it in a bit further detail. In the end they themselves said they have no policies and they probably won't end up voting for them.

    Where do the Tories stand on grammar schools?
    Grammar schools were a specific type of school that was suitable for the era they were prevalent. They were not without faults, however.

    The Tory policy of free schools allows heads and governors to establish a similar academic focus and rigour if they so wish. They are not allowed to select on academic merit only, but equally there are ways around this: I prefer setting personally, but it can be complicated, so many schools go for streaming instead

    So: not grammar schools in name, but the flexibility for schools to pursue that route if they wish.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2015
    Maybe so, but surely it also raises question about the defecting MEP who was still tweeting gushing praise for UKIP until a few days ago.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    TPDs?

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    A bit late ! I have been writing on this here on PB for , at least, a month. That's why AASSS should perused very carefully.
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    Charles said:

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    TPDs?

    PLHs (Patriotic Lion Hearts)
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    Will this finally make the Labour high command realise that, to win these voters over, they can't continue to have an economic policy more right-wing than 60% of the population?
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    MP_SE said:

    The plot thickens:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/253620071/Bradford-selection-UKIP

    I cannot remember where I read it but I am sure I read that he refused to turn up to a meeting to explain himself on Tuesday. He met Cameron on Friday and defected today. It may be that he jumped before he pushed but I am sure all will become apparent over the coming days.

    Exciting times. Especially with the Greek election tomorrow.

    Please don't let TSE read that!! Nothing to do with the politics. Simply that it contains one of the worst spelling mistakes I have seen in a long time. It made me cringe to read it.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited January 2015
    MP_SE said:

    The plot thickens:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/253620071/Bradford-selection-UKIP

    I cannot remember where I read it but I am sure I read that he refused to turn up to a meeting to explain himself on Tuesday. He met Cameron on Friday and defected today. It may be that he jumped before he pushed but I am sure all will become apparent over the coming days.

    Exciting times. Especially with the Greek election tomorrow.

    Are the Tories so desperate to get any UKIP defector ? No duedil whatsoever ? Straight meeting with Cameron ?
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    MikeK said:

    MP_SE said:

    The plot thickens:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/253620071/Bradford-selection-UKIP

    I cannot remember where I read it but I am sure I read that he refused to turn up to a meeting to explain himself on Tuesday. He met Cameron on Friday and defected today. It may be that he jumped before he pushed but I am sure all will become apparent over the coming days.

    Exciting times. Especially with the Greek election tomorrow.

    A most interesting document, is it now in the hands of the police?
    I have just re-read it and it is really disappointing. There are a lot of similarities with what has happened in Tower Hamlets and Rotherham in terms of trying to rig candidates for election. It is interesting that Labour have been implicated.

    UKIP did hand over evidence to the police, so this may be it. I am not sure if what has gone on is illegal.


  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,990
    edited January 2015
    saddened said:

    So in summary, he was a cock and we're glad to see the back of him. That's the kipper stance?

    I wouldn't go that far. He's just not all that

    Put it this way, I was a shorter price than him to be next UKIPs leader with Ladbrokes
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Reckless and Carswell set the standard of resigning and then facing their employers ( the electorate ) in these situations. Bashir will be expected to meet that standard or be despised.

    He can't though: if he resigns he is automatically replaced by the next on UKIP's list.

    Bit harsh to set him an unachievable hurdle
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Danny565 said:

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    Will this finally make the Labour high command realise that, to win these voters over, they can't continue to have an economic policy more right-wing than 60% of the population?
    A few Green subsidies should do the trick. Plus Ed should ring Dave to find out which travel agency he used to buy his ticket to see the huskies.......

    Oh, yes ! A speech on global warming always helps.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    TPDs?

    PLHs (Patriotic Lion Hearts)
    What's the difference between them, apart from the direction of travel?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    surbiton said:

    Danny565 said:

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    Will this finally make the Labour high command realise that, to win these voters over, they can't continue to have an economic policy more right-wing than 60% of the population?
    A few Green subsidies should do the trick. Plus Ed should ring Dave to find out which travel agency he used to buy his ticket to see the huskies.......

    Oh, yes ! A speech on global warming always helps.
    Can't work out if you're being sarcastic or not(!), but I really don't think environmental issues are driving the Green surge at all. It's mainly anger over the economy/spending cuts imo.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    woody662 said:

    I imagine this might be the first of many the Lynton Crosby has up his sleeve. I've got 2 stories on them myself which will probably be national.

    Interestingly when canvassing today, I came across 4 hoouseholds saying UKIP as soon as I spoke. I explored it in a bit further detail. In the end they themselves said they have no policies and they probably won't end up voting for them.

    Where do the Tories stand on grammar schools?
    Grammar schools were a specific type of school that was suitable for the era they were prevalent. They were not without faults, however.

    The Tory policy of free schools allows heads and governors to establish a similar academic focus and rigour if they so wish. They are not allowed to select on academic merit only, but equally there are ways around this: I prefer setting personally, but it can be complicated, so many schools go for streaming instead

    So: not grammar schools in name, but the flexibility for schools to pursue that route if they wish.
    "They are not allowed to select on academic merit only, but equally there are ways around this"

    1. Parental Bank Statement

    2. Parental Credit Card Limit:
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    edited January 2015
    isam said:

    To be honest I voted labour because my family did and I never thought much about politics. Sounds glib, but it was only when I grew up a bit and started really analysing politics, policies etc that I stopped voting for them

    So many people vote for either the Tories or Labour because it's what their parents do/did. I was probably inclined to support the Tories because it's what my parents did.

    I was broadly supportive of Cameron and the Tories up until about 2012 as I thought it was important that we kept Labour out of office. But now I simply don't care as I don't think there's any difference between the main parties.

    The issue of grammar schools is important to me. It's not so much because I'm desperate to go back to the grammar school system, but because I think Labour dumbed down the top of our education system. They hate any notion that some people are more intelligent than others. They hate aspiration. They hate the notion that some people are more likely to succeed than others.

    I went to a comp and there were 37 of us in my Year 11 maths class. The reason is simple, we were all going to get A/A* grades and the current system encourages schools to focus on getting as many kids to get 5 A to C grades.

    That's fine, but the smarter kids in the comp system are then put at a disadvantage when up against kids at private schools where they really stretch them.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited January 2015
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    TPDs?

    PLHs (Patriotic Lion Hearts)
    What's the difference between them, apart from the direction of travel?
    Their colour. (party speaking)
  • Options
    Aucastrating!! :) :0 :)
  • Options
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    OOOOH OOOOH OOOOOH

    The defection is thought to have been brokered by another Tory MEP, the heavily Eurosceptic Daniel Hannan.

    There are already rumours that at least one other UKIP MEP is considering their position following Mr Bashir's resignation.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30967633

    TPDs?

    PLHs (Patriotic Lion Hearts)
    What's the difference between them, apart from the direction of travel?
    It is a subjective thing.

    I fully admit that my faculties may not be in perfect order when it comes to discussing Mark Reckless.
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Danny565 said:

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    Will this finally make the Labour high command realise that, to win these voters over, they can't continue to have an economic policy more right-wing than 60% of the population?
    Peter Hain had an entertaining spat with Bea Campbell on last nights Any Questions. He didn't seem to like the suggestion that people had as much right to vote for the Greens as Labour. Worth a listen.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited January 2015
    surbiton said:

    Danny565 said:

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    Will this finally make the Labour high command realise that, to win these voters over, they can't continue to have an economic policy more right-wing than 60% of the population?
    A few Green subsidies should do the trick. Plus Ed should ring Dave to find out which travel agency he used to buy his ticket to see the huskies.......

    Oh, yes ! A speech on global warming always helps.
    They want Socialism and Communism not just clean vegetables.
    They are the militant tendency in a green cover.
  • Options

    Aucastrating!! :) :0 :)

    That was the one. :-) I was wondering how long it would be before someone else picked up on it.

    Ouch!
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Reckless and Carswell set the standard of resigning and then facing their employers ( the electorate ) in these situations. Bashir will be expected to meet that standard or be despised.

    I don't think it's possible to have a by-election for an MEP.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Ed Miliband’s chances of winning the general election are dealt a blow by research for the Observer showing the surge in support for the Greens could seriously damage Labour’s hopes in 22 seats that will help decide who enters Downing Street in May.

    With just over 100 days before polling, the rise of the Greens is causing serious anxiety in Labour’s high command, as worries grow that many left-leaning voters, particularly students and first-time voters, are rejecting Miliband’s agenda in favour of a more radical leftwing offering. With the SNP already threatening Labour in at least 20 of its traditional strongholds in Scotland, the Green surge means Labour is facing a second, largely unexpected, challenge from the left, which has made the election result even more difficult to call.

    A big concern for Miliband’s election team is that Labour had been banking on many who voted Lib Dem in 2010 to return to the party. But these voters could be turning instead to the Greens, weakening Labour’s bid for power in university cities and other, mainly urban, areas.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/24/green-party-surge-labour-threat-election

    What about the green-minded citizens who last time voted for husky-windmill-cyclist man? Will they be sticking with the Conservatives?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,571
    edited January 2015
    Tonight's You Gov

    Con 32, Lab 32, LibDem 7, UKIP 15, Green 7
  • Options
    YouGov

    Who will be next leader of Tory party? Boris Johnson 23%, Theresa May 12% Osborne 4% David Davis 4%, Sajid Javid 2%

    Who will be next Labour leader? David Miliband 18% Ed Balls 7% Andy Burnham 6% Harriet Harman 6%

    Who will be next libdem leader? Vince Cable 15%, Danny Alexander 10% Tim Farron 3%. Libdem voters push Farron up to 10%
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. Watcher, how far in was it?
  • Options
    So have the PB Tories been calling Bashir a 'pig-dog' ?

    What this demonstrates, again, is firstly what a crap system Euro Elections are held under and secondly what a crap bunch of human beings aspire to be Euro MPs.


  • Options
    Charles said:

    Reckless and Carswell set the standard of resigning and then facing their employers ( the electorate ) in these situations. Bashir will be expected to meet that standard or be despised.

    He can't though: if he resigns he is automatically replaced by the next on UKIP's list.

    Bit harsh to set him an unachievable hurdle
    Another dishonourable member incorporated into your body politic. Depressing and self-defeating.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Tonight's You Gov

    Con 32, Lab 32, LibDem 7, UKIP 15, Green 7

    I only made it to the airport lounge! If it had been delayed it would have definitely been a crossover ;)
  • Options

    Aucastrating!! :) :0 :)

    That was the one. :-) I was wondering how long it would be before someone else picked up on it.

    Ouch!
    I have seen worse

    http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2014/05/21/the-25-worst-best-spelling-mistakes-on-twitter/
  • Options
    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Mr. Watcher, how far in was it?

    From memory, 20 mins.
This discussion has been closed.