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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Terrific mash-up of Kraftwerk's "Autobahn" and the Tory press conference by Newsnight.Worth a look on i-player.
    The Tories campaign images will now move on to the billboards of Britain,offering numerous opportunities for locals to test out their artistic capabilities.

    It was a cracker!

    Check out @IndyMatters's Tweet: https://twitter.com/IndyMatters/status/552254636623949825?s=09

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    chestnut said:

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good.

    What do you think the less well off voters in London will think?

    We're taking money off rich Londoners, but it isn't for you it's for Dr Kildare and Alex McSturgeon...

    To stupidity and beyond.

    A winner for UKIP, the Greens, anyone actually...
    One nation Laboùr.

    Taking it from one nation, and giving it to another.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130

    Cyclefree said:

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good. The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    But will it influence the polls? Not much either way, I think. I note Mr Dawning's expectation that it will devastate Southern Labour support. I recommend a nice cup of tea. If we get that excited after one day, what will we be like by May?

    What about nurses for England? What about mental health nurses for the young? I'm not affected by the mansion tax but I'm not pleased at the idea that taxes raised in the South should be used for Scotland and not for poor parts of the UK, of which there are plenty.

    And there is also Labour's plan to attack pension tax relief (again).

    It gives the impression that Labour views anyone with a bit of savings or property as just a wallet to be picked.




    You'd be a bit pissed off as a Welsh voter. Labour's run healthcare into the ground, and would appear to be more interested in bunging extra sweeties to the Scots, than those in the Principality.
    They're still loyal enough already apparently.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2015
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    Really? The BBC News was presenting the story very much as "who can be the toughest gits on cutting spending" -- terrain that Labour will NEVER win on.

    I'm still yet to understand how a message of "we can cut spending by (almost) as much as the Tories, but not have public services go down the pan" is going to make sense to the public.
    Because since the Tory cuts are ideologically driven and they enjoy it, but Labour are doing it out of necessity/mismanagement by the Tories has forced them to, even though they will cut more or less the same amount in the same basic way, it is not as bad as they won't be enjoying it. Or something like that. Baffles me quite frankly, but it should be enough to carry them over given their other advantages.

    But I just don't think it's going to work for anyone bar the small number of Labour diehards. That's the irony of a "centre-ground" strategy -- in a funny way, you actually end up relying MORE on people having a footballteam-like tribal loyalty to a political party, because that's the only way someone could believe things are going to be so much better simply by changing the personnel (as opposed to changing the actual things that are being done). They're essentially relying on people believing Labour are inherently more good and more competent than the wicked Tories, and I just don't think people have that kind of loyalty in any party's fundamental "abilities" anymore. To convince people that you're going to deliver drastically better results than the other guys, you have to be promising drastically different policies imo, otherwise it just won't pass the "smell test".
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The line that Labour will take from the English to give to the Scots is a killer.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,130
    Danny565 said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    Really? The BBC News was presenting the story very much as "who can be the toughest gits on cutting spending" -- terrain that Labour will NEVER win on.

    I'm still yet to understand how a message of "we can cut spending by (almost) as much as the Tories, but not have public services go down the pan" is going to make sense to the public.
    Because since the Tory cuts are ideologically driven and they enjoy it, but Labour are doing it out of necessity/mismanagement by the Tories has forced them to, even though they will cut more or less the same amount in the same basic way, it is not as bad as they won't be enjoying it. Or something like that. Baffles me quite frankly, but it should be enough to carry them over given their other advantages.

    But I just don't think it's going to work for anyone bar the small number of Labour diehards. That's the irony of a "centre-ground" strategy -- in a funny way, you actually end up relying MORE on people having a footballteam-like tribal loyalty to a political party, because that's the only way someone could believe things are going to be so much better simply by changing the personnel (as opposed to changing the actual things that are being done). They're essentially relying on people believing Labour are inherently more good and more competent than the wicked Tories, and I just don't think people have that kind of loyalty in any party's fundamental "abilities" anymore. To convince people that you're going to deliver drastically better results than the other guys, you have to be promising drastically different policies imo.
    I'd hope so, but I'm more pessimistic about how people vote. Labour have a bit of an advantage in terms of people already liking them more (or disliking them less) than the Tories, which on its own would not work, but add in 5 years of Tory austerity and even if Labour are offering the same thing, and I think enough people (given the low bar Labour have in order to win) will figure it's worth taking a chance to see if Labour will be different, even if rationally they can see Labour are offering the same thing.

    I really wish Labour had gone more radical, made more of an effort since 2010, but as it is I think the path to the victory line was too easy for them to ignore, and so they've stuck with the lazy and cosmetic efforts. I wouldn't mind, I have no inherent problem with them being in or out of power, but it bodes ill for what Ed M will actually do once in power, unless he unleashed a secret boldness on us all.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good. The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    But will it influence the polls? Not much either way, I think. I note Mr Dawning's expectation that it will devastate Southern Labour support. I recommend a nice cup of tea. If we get that excited after one day, what will we be like by May?

    I think Labour needs some cooler, more strategic thinking heads in campaign HQ. Someone with a good head for numbers, always polite to rude trolls, willing to engage in political debate with the unruly mob, good at logistics and preferably with a lifetimes experience of wargaming and simulations!

    Best of luck Nick, Labour needs you more than it knows!
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Nick Palmer

    'The whole day has been on Labour's terrain'

    Including the £23 billion black hole
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @chestnut

    Not only will Labour take from the English to give to the Scots, they'll also give the Scots a one-way vote over English-only taxes too!

    Coming from a leader who grew up in an anti-English household, I don't know why anyone is surprised.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    I saw a cartoon a while back which had Ed Miliband throwing cash around while a couple looked on and the woman was saying 'he's got your wallet'. Summed it up perfectly.
    Cyclefree said:

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good. The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    But will it influence the polls? Not much either way, I think. I note Mr Dawning's expectation that it will devastate Southern Labour support. I recommend a nice cup of tea. If we get that excited after one day, what will we be like by May?

    What about nurses for England? What about mental health nurses for the young? I'm not affected by the mansion tax but I'm not pleased at the idea that taxes raised in the South should be used for Scotland and not for poor parts of the UK, of which there are plenty.

    And there is also Labour's plan to attack pension tax relief (again).

    It gives the impression that Labour views anyone with a bit of savings or property as just a wallet to be picked.




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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    chestnut said:

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good.

    What do you think the less well off voters in London will think?

    We're taking money off rich Londoners, but it isn't for you it's for Dr Kildare and Alex McSturgeon...

    To stupidity and beyond.

    A winner for UKIP, the Greens, anyone actually...
    One nation Laboùr.

    Taking it from one nation, and giving it to another.
    Your best post to date!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,336
    edited January 2015
    A&E performance in England 'likely to hit new low'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30679949


    Very strange how the likes of Wales, who are failing massively on A&E figures only gets a tiny mention...

    In Wales the data from November shows just 83.8% of patients were seen in time.

    No idea who is in charge of Welsh NHS, as there is no mention in the article...I bet a lot of people think the nasty Tories..and certainly never seen a top headline on the BBC along the lines of "Labour run Welsh NHS is a failing massively on their target, where as Coalition run English NHS narrowly missed target".

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380



    I think Labour needs some cooler, more strategic thinking heads in campaign HQ. Someone with a good head for numbers, always polite to rude trolls, willing to engage in political debate with the unruly mob, good at logistics and preferably with a lifetimes experience of wargaming and simulations!

    Best of luck Nick, Labour needs you more than it knows!

    Hey, I'm plan Z if the first 25 plans don't work out... :-)

    Our recent discussion has migrated onto my website as part 1 of a series:

    http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/personal-manifesto-part-i-is-britain-viable/

    Response from constituents so far has been great, with lots of requests for more. The audience for long detailed pieces is a bit niche, but it does exist.

    I nicked a whole sentence from you on the Chinese - I pondered how to paraphrase it, but couldn't find a better way to put it. You could sue.



  • Options
    Socrates said:

    @chestnut

    Not only will Labour take from the English to give to the Scots, they'll also give the Scots a one-way vote over English-only taxes too!

    Coming from a leader who grew up in an anti-English household, I don't know why anyone is surprised.

    Miliband joined the Royal Navy in June 1943.[5] He served for three years in the Belgian Section of the Royal Navy, achieving the rank of chief petty officer.[3] He served on several warships, tasked with intercepting German radio communications.[2][7] His initial exhilaration soon wore off as months passed without seeing action, then in June 1944 he took part in supporting the Normandy landings which he wrote was "the biggest operation in history" and he "would not miss it for anything". He saw further action at the Toulon landings.[5]
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,044
    For all those that want more London cash, Isn't all the London money being spent on that err bridge-park-open "living" space thingamajig :D ?!
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    For all those that want more London cash, Isn't all the London money being spent on that err bridge-park-open "living" space thingamajig :D ?!

    No.
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    You'd be a bit pissed off as a Welsh voter. Labour's run healthcare into the ground, and would appear to be more interested in bunging extra sweeties to the Scots, than those in the Principality.

    Tough for taffs. Jocks are more important.

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    Socrates said:

    Speaking as a Labour candidate I'm happy with today's coverage - even the stuff about Scottish nurses paid for by £2 million Southern house-owners is good. The whole day has been on Labour's terrain - even the Tory attacks on the possible Labour policies mainly had the effect of highlighting the policies.

    But will it influence the polls? Not much either way, I think. I note Mr Dawning's expectation that it will devastate Southern Labour support. I recommend a nice cup of tea. If we get that excited after one day, what will we be like by May?

    Labour have treated Scotland like their own little fiefdom for decades and suddenly they're shocked that it's turned against them. Carry on like this, and the same will happen in London. London has more poverty than Scotland - why on Earth is even more of its money being snatched away to shore up the unruly Scots?

    The London tax should be spent on London's needs.
    Tough for cok a knees Jocks matter more.

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,876
    I see Alex Massie was right - Jim Murphy has kept Ed off the front pages.....titter.....
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596



    I think Labour needs some cooler, more strategic thinking heads in campaign HQ. Someone with a good head for numbers, always polite to rude trolls, willing to engage in political debate with the unruly mob, good at logistics and preferably with a lifetimes experience of wargaming and simulations!

    Best of luck Nick, Labour needs you more than it knows!

    Hey, I'm plan Z if the first 25 plans don't work out... :-)

    Our recent discussion has migrated onto my website as part 1 of a series:

    http://www.nickpalmer.org.uk/personal-manifesto-part-i-is-britain-viable/

    Response from constituents so far has been great, with lots of requests for more. The audience for long detailed pieces is a bit niche, but it does exist.

    I nicked a whole sentence from you on the Chinese - I pondered how to paraphrase it, but couldn't find a better way to put it. You could sue.



    Thanks Nick. Interesting. I'll look out for your other posts.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Socrates said:



    Coming from a leader who grew up in an anti-English household

    You know nothing about the mood of the household he grew up in. Stop embarrassing yourself.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited January 2015
    AndyJS said:

    Is this someone's idea of a joke?

    "Anti-terror plan to spy on toddlers 'is heavy-handed’
    Nursery staff and childminders are given 'duty' to report toddlers they suspect of being at risk of becoming terrorists under new Home Office measures"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11323558/Anti-terror-plan-to-spy-on-toddlers-is-heavy-handed.html

    To quote The Hitchhiker's Guide:
    "'You're all mad,' explained Ford.
    ‘You’re absolutely barmy,’ he suggested.
    ‘You’re a bunch of raving nutters,’ he opined."
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    chestnut said:

    The line that Labour will take from the English to give to the Scots is a killer.

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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    FPT - ''Well this is fun. Murphy elected to sort out the Nats. He seems to have upset the unionists.''

    Thats what the Scottish Labour leadership is all about now. The last SLAB leader said that she was treated as a branch office.
    Murphy's whole job is to be a spoilt brat forever demanding a better deal for Scotland. Thats the result of devolution. Thats why Murphy is being deliberately offensive.
    The truth is the money from any mansion tax or any tax goes into a pot and is disbursed according to formula. Murphy cannot get the entire amount of any tax allocated just to Scotland. Any money allocated to Scotland is disbursed by the Scottish Parliament anyway and out of any tax raised by Labour only the agreed formula proportion would go to Scotland.
    Murphy is happy to fudge this to prop up the Labour vote in Scotland.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    For all those that want more London cash, Isn't all the London money being spent on that err bridge-park-open "living" space thingamajig :D ?!

    No.
    Correct and clearly the poster has never seen the extravagance of the Scottish Parliament building and all the other artistic public projects in Scotland.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    AndyJS said:

    Is this someone's idea of a joke?

    "Anti-terror plan to spy on toddlers 'is heavy-handed’
    Nursery staff and childminders are given 'duty' to report toddlers they suspect of being at risk of becoming terrorists under new Home Office measures"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11323558/Anti-terror-plan-to-spy-on-toddlers-is-heavy-handed.html

    The article says - ''A Home office spokesman last night said: “We are not expecting teachers and nursery workers to carry out unnecessary intrusion into family life, but we do expect them to take action when they observe behaviour of concern.
    He added: “It is important that children are taught fundamental British values in an age-appropriate way.' ''

    After years of multiculturalism we get people complaining about the opposite of it.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Well, I'm off to bed. When I wake up tomorrow the south of England could well be a Labour-free zone.

    You are wrong.
    Even in SE MT to pay for 20000 extra nurses is popular
    How many nurses can a mansion tax pay for given all the costs of employment added up over and above wages - not least NI and pensions and everything else associated with it. 20,000??

This discussion has been closed.