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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The SNP continues to be the big mover in the commons seats

SystemSystem Posts: 12,214
edited January 2015 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The SNP continues to be the big mover in the commons seats’ spread markets – up ten seats in five weeks

The continuation of strong polling for the SNP before Christmas has reinforced the move upwards in the latest spread prices from Sporting Index. It is now exactly ten seats higher than it was in the last week in November.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    First!
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    I think the bookies have been slow to react to events in Scotland, which is on given the polling evidence and feedback from those of us on the ground in Central Scotland.

    I’ve avoided the consticuency markets and focused my betting on William Hill’s SLAB seats market. I’ve built a decent position in the 0-20 seats area, I’ll make profits if SLAB wins 0-5, 6-10, 11-15 and will break even at 16-20 seats. I built most of my 0-5 position at 125/1 (now down to 33/1) and it would pay out £16,000. Realistically though 11-15 seats at 7/1, is probably the best value bet.

    My sense is that the SNP surge still has some way to go and would anticipate SNP levelling out at around 50%. I think SLAB will struggle to hold onto the 20% support level, let alone their current 25%. I don’t think there is anything SLAB can do to turn things around in Scotland by GE2015, so they should just focus on a proper game plan for Holyrood 2016.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Assuming eight SNP gains from the Lib Dems, that'd be 15 gains from Labour as a mid point. Seems high to me but it would tally with SNP being favourites to get the most seats in Scotland.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    FPT, Cyclefree, I was at Ayr races , lovely day , managed a few winners and came out about level on betting. Weather varied from lovely sunshine and blue sky to heavy hail showers. Great day all in though, very good meeting with all seven races having plenty runners and good few close run races.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    malcolmg said:

    FPT, Cyclefree, I was at Ayr races , lovely day , managed a few winners and came out about level on betting. Weather varied from lovely sunshine and blue sky to heavy hail showers. Great day all in though, very good meeting with all seven races having plenty runners and good few close run races.

    I always back Jim Goldie at Ayr blind.Did he have a winner?

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    FPT: Divvie, good luck on job hunting , try your best to get the insurance company to pay what they should , too many people ripped off by them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    malcolmg said:

    FPT, Cyclefree, I was at Ayr races , lovely day , managed a few winners and came out about level on betting. Weather varied from lovely sunshine and blue sky to heavy hail showers. Great day all in though, very good meeting with all seven races having plenty runners and good few close run races.

    Sounds wonderful.

    Have a great weekend.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited January 2015

    isam said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    So far he has just run away from any such tough questions.

    I know.

    Hardly a good look. What happened to the "new politics"?

    He bravely ran away...
    That's strange, I thought he wrote a widely praised article last Sunday that appeared to run contrary to the perceived Ukip line on immigrants? It was mentioned often enough on here I thought you would have seen it
    Don't bother trying to convice the Tory lunatics Sam. They only see what they want to see and find it impossible to comprehend any concept that hasn't been officially endorsed by the CCHQ. These are the same people who used to laugh about the idea of Labour-Bots during the last Government and yet had morphed into the Tory version with so much as a murmur.
    Some of the current Tory posters on here now are worse than the Labour-bots in terms of being reduced to making snide comments about UKIP being racist against brown people. And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. And Tory supporters openly prefer to work with left-wing parties in Coalition rather than another conservative party.

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Cyclefree said:

    malcolmg said:

    FPT, Cyclefree, I was at Ayr races , lovely day , managed a few winners and came out about level on betting. Weather varied from lovely sunshine and blue sky to heavy hail showers. Great day all in though, very good meeting with all seven races having plenty runners and good few close run races.

    Sounds wonderful.

    Have a great weekend.

    Cyclefree, thankyou , always pleasant to read your posts and a breath of fresh air compared to many on here, if only more were like you.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    It's always absurd when media organisations don't report the offending comments. It's all part of the philosophy that us plebeian readers aren't too be trusted with deciding for ourselves, and should just nod our heads in agreement at what our betters have decided is inappropriate.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    It's always absurd when media organisations don't report the offending comments. It's all part of the philosophy that us plebeian readers aren't too be trusted with deciding for ourselves, and should just nod our heads in agreement at what our betters have decided is inappropriate.
    I think the offending comments would either be 'cock' or 'no cock'....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    Didn't he just play the game?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    Didn't he just play the game?
    I have no idea.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    LOL

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    Neil said:

    isam said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    Didn't he just play the game?
    I have no idea.

    According to the Guardian, that's what he did.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Epic fail — "Muslim extremists hoping to disrupt international travel across the Western world fell a little short of their goal when they hacked into a Bristol bus timetable instead":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11321499/Bristol-bus-timetable-hacked-by-terrorists.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    AndyJS said:

    Epic fail — "Muslim extremists hoping to disrupt international travel across the Western world fell a little short of their goal when they hacked into a Bristol bus timetable instead":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11321499/Bristol-bus-timetable-hacked-by-terrorists.html

    Wonderful start to 2015. Guess you have to start small!!
  • malcolmg said:

    FPT: Divvie, good luck on job hunting , try your best to get the insurance company to pay what they should , too many people ripped off by them.

    Thanks malcolm, & to Cyclefree & others on previous thread.
    I shall recycle some of your invective on the insurance company if they remain unhelpful.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    I remember Culture Club filming a video at Stamford Bridge in the 80s. To much hilarity, the Shed greeted Boy George with "Ooh, ar, ooh, ooh ar, can you take a cu-cum-bah".
  • RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Epic fail — "Muslim extremists hoping to disrupt international travel across the Western world fell a little short of their goal when they hacked into a Bristol bus timetable instead":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11321499/Bristol-bus-timetable-hacked-by-terrorists.html

    Wonderful start to 2015. Guess you have to start small!!
    If you've seen the film Four Lions.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    Was in private eye in May
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Dr Ray Stantz: Everything was fine with our system until the power grid was shut off by dickless here.
    Walter Peck: They caused an explosion!
    Mayor: Is this true?
    Dr. Peter Venkman: Yes it's true... This man has no dick.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Blueberry said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    I remember Culture Club filming a video at Stamford Bridge in the 80s. To much hilarity, the Shed greeted Boy George with "Ooh, ar, ooh, ooh ar, can you take a cu-cum-bah".
    To be fair it's little wonder there are no footballers out of the closet when John Fashanu calls Wimbledon the brother he never had.

    Nice
  • On topic.

    I expect the Ashcroft polling is the next bug event to affect the SNP price.
  • isam said:

    Blueberry said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    I remember Culture Club filming a video at Stamford Bridge in the 80s. To much hilarity, the Shed greeted Boy George with "Ooh, ar, ooh, ooh ar, can you take a cu-cum-bah".
    To be fair it's little wonder there are no footballers out of the closet when John Fashanu calls Wimbledon the brother he never had.

    Nice
    Did he really say that? What a ****.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited January 2015
    The difference between polling and betting is simply down on 2 factors, first is that when odds were first given they were set mostly on the basis of the last election results and second that the general public are always behind the curve.
    In both cases it takes a lot of money and time to shift odds closer to actual polling.

    That is why the more flexible sporting index is showing a much higher number of SNP seats than the more rigid Ladbrokes in individual seats, it's still about 20 seats short of what polls suggest but it's getting there faster.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited January 2015
    I really hope that the New Year brings some good news on the job front. And don't let the Insurance company get away with this, get some sound advice and fight them on this one. Hopefully there are one or two experts lurking around PB who might be able to step in with some advice via vanilla messages.

    malcolmg said:

    FPT: Divvie, good luck on job hunting , try your best to get the insurance company to pay what they should , too many people ripped off by them.

    Thanks malcolm, & to Cyclefree & others on previous thread.
    I shall recycle some of your invective on the insurance company if they remain unhelpful.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Blueberry said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    I remember Culture Club filming a video at Stamford Bridge in the 80s. To much hilarity, the Shed greeted Boy George with "Ooh, ar, ooh, ooh ar, can you take a cu-cum-bah".
    To be fair it's little wonder there are no footballers out of the closet when John Fashanu calls Wimbledon the brother he never had.

    Nice
    Did he really say that? What a ****.
    According to Wally Downes on twitter... I assume it was on the BT sport doc, haven't seen it myself
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    isam said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    Was in private eye in May
    Private eye.....!

    Hohoho... Oh pleeeeasse?
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Apparently Milibands close aide reckons that Blair got too many middle class people voting for them and as such had to pander to them. Make of that that you will? Such a report though is not going to endear Labour to the very voters they need on side in May.


    "Tony Blair attracted the ‘wrong people’ to support Labour, a key ally of Ed Miliband claimed last night.
    In an extraordinary intervention, Neal Lawson said the record election victories won by New Labour were ‘too big’, and had forced the party to pander to the middle classes while in government in order to keep their support."


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2893838/Labour-doesn-t-want-middle-class-votes-Red-Ed-s-ally-says-Blair-attacked-wrong-people-record-election-victories.html#ixzz3Nh0OKz9x
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
  • fitalass said:

    I really hope that the New Year brings some good news on the job front. And don't let the Insurance company get away with this, get some sound advice and fight them on this one. Hopefully there are one or two experts lurking around PB who might be able to step in with some advice via vanilla messages.

    malcolmg said:

    FPT: Divvie, good luck on job hunting , try your best to get the insurance company to pay what they should , too many people ripped off by them.

    Thanks malcolm, & to Cyclefree & others on previous thread.
    I shall recycle some of your invective on the insurance company if they remain unhelpful.
    Thanks, I shall ride into 2015 on a wave of PB goodwill!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited January 2015

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Domestic problems didn't bring down the BQ in Canada, they threw all the problems of Quebec not on their governance but on the lack of independence and still received 40-50% of the vote each time, until the Quebec nationalist voters figured out they wont get out of Canada and that independence was a lost cause, only then they reverted in the normal pattern of voting for the left.

    I expect the SNP saga to be mostly a replay of the BQ.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited January 2015
    Moses_ said:

    Apparently Milibands close aide reckons that Blair got too many middle class people voting for them and as such had to pander to them. Make of that that you will? Such a report though is not going to endear Labour to the very voters they need on side in May.


    "Tony Blair attracted the ‘wrong people’ to support Labour, a key ally of Ed Miliband claimed last night.
    In an extraordinary intervention, Neal Lawson said the record election victories won by New Labour were ‘too big’, and had forced the party to pander to the middle classes while in government in order to keep their support."


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2893838/Labour-doesn-t-want-middle-class-votes-Red-Ed-s-ally-says-Blair-attacked-wrong-people-record-election-victories.html#ixzz3Nh0OKz9x
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Labour are currently much closer to the levels of middle-class support that Blair got, than they are to the working-class support that Blair got. Hence why Cambridge is looking fairly good for a Labour gain while they struggle mightily in the likes of Cannock Chase.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Danny565 said:

    Labour are currently much closer to the levels of middle-class support that Blair got, than they are to the working-class support that Blair got.

    Because they refuse to do anything on immigration other than "listen to concerns". That's the problem with being led by an out-of-touch political geek with an ideology that is hostile to the British working class.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    We are never told. PC has gone so far that the press seem afraid to publish what people are alleged to have said.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    isam said:

    Blueberry said:

    isam said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    "You're going home in a basque and suspender belt"
    I remember Culture Club filming a video at Stamford Bridge in the 80s. To much hilarity, the Shed greeted Boy George with "Ooh, ar, ooh, ooh ar, can you take a cu-cum-bah".
    To be fair it's little wonder there are no footballers out of the closet when John Fashanu calls Wimbledon the brother he never had.

    Nice
    It's only a matter of time I think. I'd guess somewhere like Holland, Spain or USA may be first to produce a really world class player who comes out, and then, perhaps transfers to the PL. Or it could be the UK - look at Elton John at Watford - I don't think anyone cares about his sexuality.

    Most football supporters have gay friends these days what with watching football now being a middle class activity, and all stadiums have cameras everywhere so any fan being abusive would end up on Match of the Day or YouTube. I think the abuse would soon die down.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    edited January 2015

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    We are never told. PC has gone so far that the press seem afraid to publish what people are alleged to have said.
    He either said 'cock' or 'no cock' in response to a picture. This can be gleaned by what is stated in the article. Hardly PC gone mad, it just doesn't add anything to the story to add a tweet saying 'cock' (although with the Mail, perhaps it does??)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited January 2015
    Socrates said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    It's always absurd when media organisations don't report the offending comments. It's all part of the philosophy that us plebeian readers aren't too be trusted with deciding for ourselves, and should just nod our heads in agreement at what our betters have decided is inappropriate.
    Agreed - it's surprising how widespread the view that people cannot be trusted to respond 'appropriately' - or alternatively would be struck dumb in horror and we cannot have that - in response to terrible views or comments really is. It can be taken to dangerous places, such a course. In this instance perhaps the lack of definitive explication hardly impacts things much, things seem pretty clear, but it is a trend that has at times been worrying.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,566
    Moses_ said:

    Apparently Milibands close aide reckons ...

    The article doesn't actually say Neil Lawson is a close aide of Miliband, and he isn't. He's the one-man spokesman of Compass, and has ploughed his specialised furrow for years.

    As for allegedly offensive tweets by footballers, I'm not sure that the right way to handle them would be to publish them in national newspapers. Ignoring them seem more on the mark, unless they're illegal, in which case the normal process of justice should be followed.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    I recall that following the racist chanting at Zenit St Petersberg, for the second leg the Man City fans were singing "free Pussy Riot" etc.

    It is not often that football fans come out for radical feminists!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    A move towards contributory benefits and away from handouts would perhaps not entirely coincidentally stop recent immigrants getting them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    Works very well until you have little choice but to have to join the governance game with the rest of the, and even if they win 10 seats UKIP can probably avoid that easy enough, as the LDs managed to do until they had over 50. So it shouldn't be a problem for them for quite some time I should think.

    That said, I personally have little problem with a pick and mix style of policy offering. The idea Labour or the Tories are defined by their ideological underpinnings today would be ludicrous, despite how much the partisans on both sides attempt to convince us otherwise, and if UKIP can come up with a mix of left or right that appeals to most people, nothing wrong with that. The same idea, perhaps less obviously, is undertaken when you see the main two jump all over the nonsensical political spectrum to issues once perceived as traditionally left or right on specific issues, if it will win them votes. UKIP are still formulating an identity now they are more of a major party is all.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    A move towards contributory benefits and away from handouts would perhaps not entirely coincidentally stop recent immigrants getting them.
    A move to a contribution based scheme would have much more purpose if (as in Labours version of a 5 year ban on immigrants getting benefits) if we were to remain in the EU...

    Also as most EU immigrants are in work, JSA matters much less than tax credits.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Moses_ said:

    Apparently Milibands close aide reckons ...

    As for allegedly offensive tweets by footballers, I'm not sure that the right way to handle them would be to publish them in national newspapers. Ignoring them seem more on the mark, unless they're illegal, in which case the normal process of justice should be followed.

    But since it wasn't ignored as it is being widely reported and we are supposed to be condemning the man, we really should know specifically and unequivocally what for, rather than glean it from the context.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    RobD said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    We are never told. PC has gone so far that the press seem afraid to publish what people are alleged to have said.
    He either said 'cock' or 'no cock' in response to a picture. This can be gleaned by what is stated in the article. Hardly PC gone mad, it just doesn't add anything to the story to add a tweet saying 'cock' (although with the Mail, perhaps it does??)
    Well if all he did was to post Cock or No Cock in response to an online game, it doesn't seem too reprehensible. No one expects footballers to be too bright, after all.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    I recall that following the racist chanting at Zenit St Petersberg, for the second leg the Man City fans were singing "free Pussy Riot" etc.

    It is not often that football fans come out for radical feminists!
    Are you sure that Man City fans know what a Pussy Riot is? It sounds like something you wouldn't mind a free one of.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Epic fail — "Muslim extremists hoping to disrupt international travel across the Western world fell a little short of their goal when they hacked into a Bristol bus timetable instead":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11321499/Bristol-bus-timetable-hacked-by-terrorists.html

    Wonderful start to 2015. Guess you have to start small!!
    Reminds me of the most inspired piece of (British) counter-terrorism recently... they hacked into an Al-Qaeda training manual and replaced bomb-making instructions with a recipe for cupcakes...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    RobD said:

    Neil said:

    isam said:
    Really hard to say as it isnt clear what he posted.

    We are never told. PC has gone so far that the press seem afraid to publish what people are alleged to have said.
    He either said 'cock' or 'no cock' in response to a picture. This can be gleaned by what is stated in the article. Hardly PC gone mad, it just doesn't add anything to the story to add a tweet saying 'cock' (although with the Mail, perhaps it does??)
    Well if all he did was to post Cock or No Cock in response to an online game, it doesn't seem too reprehensible. No one expects footballers to be too bright, after all.
    I'm just wondering how many more times we can say cock without the ban hammer coming down ;)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ishmael_X said:

    isam said:
    Mmmm, football fans are notorious for their opposition to this kind of thing. I lived in Fulham in the 80s and well remember the terrifying pro-LGBT rights chanting outside Stamford Bridge.

    I recall that following the racist chanting at Zenit St Petersberg, for the second leg the Man City fans were singing "free Pussy Riot" etc.

    It is not often that football fans come out for radical feminists!
    Are you sure that Man City fans know what a Pussy Riot is? It sounds like something you wouldn't mind a free one of.

    I don't think they were interested in word analysis, so much as winding up the fans watching in Russia!
  • Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    A move towards contributory benefits and away from handouts would perhaps not entirely coincidentally stop recent immigrants getting them.
    But what would be the impact in, say, the poorer parts of Clacton?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    lol

    because the bloke running the treasury 1997-2007 was an English Tory ?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    kle4 said:

    Moses_ said:

    Apparently Milibands close aide reckons ...

    As for allegedly offensive tweets by footballers, I'm not sure that the right way to handle them would be to publish them in national newspapers. Ignoring them seem more on the mark, unless they're illegal, in which case the normal process of justice should be followed.

    But since it wasn't ignored as it is being widely reported and we are supposed to be condemning the man, we really should know specifically and unequivocally what for, rather than glean it from the context.
    And if I'm not told what people posted, I can't make up my own mind on how appalling it is or, indeed, if the law is a ass. What the hell is an illegal tweet anyway? Newspapers should still have qualified privilege to report it. Although I tend to the view that if something upsets the Daily Mail it is to be encouraged.

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    Charles said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Epic fail — "Muslim extremists hoping to disrupt international travel across the Western world fell a little short of their goal when they hacked into a Bristol bus timetable instead":

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11321499/Bristol-bus-timetable-hacked-by-terrorists.html

    Wonderful start to 2015. Guess you have to start small!!
    Reminds me of the most inspired piece of (British) counter-terrorism recently... they hacked into an Al-Qaeda training manual and replaced bomb-making instructions with a recipe for cupcakes...
    Where is the like button when you need it?

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Manama: Saudi Arabia’s efforts to edge closer to setting a minimum age for marriage have received a blow after the Grand Mufti said there was nothing wrong with girls below 15 getting married.

    “There is currently no intention to discuss the issue,” Shaikh Abdul Aziz Al Shaikh said, quoted by local daily Al Riyadh on Sunday.

    http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-arabia-grand-mufti-says-no-opposition-to-underage-marriage-1.1429882

    And these are the anti-Al Qaeda groups that don't count as "extremists"...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    Quick! The Tories are getting criticised and the criticism is substantiated! Better change the subject!

    That was an impressive level of whataboutism, even for you.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    Moses_ said:

    @socrates

    "And the actual Tory party is now working with the Guardian to leak stories critical of UKIP. "

    Do Tell ...... Preferably supported with evidence or a linky.

    :-)

    I can't provide a link because Private Eye don't have their stories online, but this was well documented last year. The Tories were part of an anti-UKIP campaign by all three establishment parties and leaked stories to the Guardian. This followed on from Crosby saying that they would do a below the radar campaign to find mistakes from minor UKIP members:

    http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/36426/
    UKIP is morphing into an LD style all things to all men party. Its peddling its lefty credentials now. The guardian will be loving it soon. Any policy will do as long as it appeals to the people in front of you. Work out the cost later.
    http://order-order.com/2015/01/02/red-ukip-call-for-higher-unemployment-benefits/
    A move towards contributory benefits and away from handouts would perhaps not entirely coincidentally stop recent immigrants getting them.
    But what would be the impact in, say, the poorer parts of Clacton?
    Beneficial, if it encourages a work ethic.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    lol

    because the bloke running the treasury 1997-2007 was an English Tory ?
    Nothing to do with him being English or Aldebaranian.

    It was the Tories who invented the PPP/PFI system, though it did not develop fully until the Blair years.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    lol

    because the bloke running the treasury 1997-2007 was an English Tory ?
    Nothing to do with him being English or Aldebaranian.

    It was the Tories who invented the PPP/PFI system, though it did not develop fully until the Blair years.

    the basic form of PFI is no different from a lease. It was the added extras in the Brown years which screwed the whole thing up. Nats like yourself just refuse to face up to the fact that if it were an iScotland Brown would have been your PM and royally screwed the place up.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Encouraging for SLAB.The renewed vigour under Murphy could see a good result with Labour losses in single figures.Remains awful for the LibDems in Scotland and they will do well to keep 4.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    lol

    because the bloke running the treasury 1997-2007 was an English Tory ?
    Nothing to do with him being English or Aldebaranian.

    It was the Tories who invented the PPP/PFI system, though it did not develop fully until the Blair years.

    the basic form of PFI is no different from a lease. It was the added extras in the Brown years which screwed the whole thing up. Nats like yourself just refuse to face up to the fact that if it were an iScotland Brown would have been your PM and royally screwed the place up.
    Interesting counterfactual idea, but Gordon Brown is the last person in the world to have had such a position, simply because independence presupposes total defeat for SLAB. It's the SNP who have led the fight for fiscal rectitude against PFI/PPP.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.

    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    lol

    because the bloke running the treasury 1997-2007 was an English Tory ?
    Nothing to do with him being English or Aldebaranian.

    It was the Tories who invented the PPP/PFI system, though it did not develop fully until the Blair years.

    the basic form of PFI is no different from a lease. It was the added extras in the Brown years which screwed the whole thing up. Nats like yourself just refuse to face up to the fact that if it were an iScotland Brown would have been your PM and royally screwed the place up.
    Interesting counterfactual idea, but Gordon Brown is the last person in the world to have had such a position, simply because independence presupposes total defeat for SLAB. It's the SNP who have led the fight for fiscal rectitude against PFI/PPP.

    ROFL

    SNP and fiscal rectitude ? Hows that oil price ?

    You remain stuck in a Lalal land where SLAB could never be in power, the recent history of Scotland suggests otherwise.

    And now we enter that interesting phase where the Holyrood govt no longer has a benign environment on which to keep spending. It will be interesting to see how the SNP handle it.

    Blame the english just for a change ?
  • Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    Bloody hell I feel really bad now. I had noticed that David had not been around recently but had missed the news as to why. Apologies to David and hope things are improving for him and his wife.
  • Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    I also missed the news of the accident. Hope David's wife gets well soon.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems

    I should have had money on none of those problems being the fault of the party who have been in power in Scotland all these past years...

    SNP - Some Nother guys Problem

    Blame somebody, anybody, else...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    ROFL

    SNP and fiscal rectitude ? Hows that oil price ?

    @ReutersBiz: Oil declines in thin, volatile trading: http://t.co/UaChArKNjl
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.



    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    Osborne has continued the madness with PF2-mutton dressed as lamb-still PFI.The problem for any EU government is the 3% limit which the Treasury has insisted are rules when,in effect they are guidelines.The end product is that we are borrowing £ 300 billion for at least 13% when we could do so with gilts at 3%.The bankers need to take a big hair-cut and the rest is dealt with my QE instead so you buy out all the contracts at 10p in the £.This would save us an absolute fortune and give public services breathing space by taking the contracts centrally.

    I would form a PFI central contracts committee based in the Cabinet Office and commence renegotiation with the PFI bankers immediately and inform them we must get our house in order so bankers will have to take the haircut.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-finance-2-pf2
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    I also missed the news of the accident. Hope David's wife gets well soon.
    Ditto.

    Best wishes to David and family (particularly Mrs Herdson obviously).

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.



    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    Osborne has continued the madness with PF2-mutton dressed as lamb-still PFI.The problem for any EU government is the 3% limit which the Treasury has insisted are rules when,in effect they are guidelines.The end product is that we are borrowing £ 300 billion for at least 13% when we could do so with gilts at 3%.The bankers need to take a big hair-cut and the rest is dealt with my QE instead so you buy out all the contracts at 10p in the £.This would save us an absolute fortune and give public services breathing space by taking the contracts centrally.

    I would form a PFI central contracts committee based in the Cabinet Office and commence renegotiation with the PFI bankers immediately and inform them we must get our house in order so bankers will have to take the haircut.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-finance-2-pf2
    precisely.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341



    [edit]


    ROFL

    SNP and fiscal rectitude ? Hows that oil price ?

    You remain stuck in a Lalal land where SLAB could never be in power, the recent history of Scotland suggests otherwise.

    And now we enter that interesting phase where the Holyrood govt no longer has a benign environment on which to keep spending. It will be interesting to see how the SNP handle it.

    Blame the english just for a change ?

    What on earth are you talking about? We're the ones who want full responsibility - no problem about whose fault it is then.

    As for SLAB, their entire policy was based on preventing a referendum for independence, and therefore fiddling the voting system, and then when they fouled that up, getting in bed with Tories after decades denouncing them as spawn of the Thatcherite devil, allowing Mr Cameron to stab them in the back, etc. etc. They bet all on indyref and there is no way anything recogniseably SLAB could survive after losing an indyref. Not least because there is no such entity as a Scottish Labour Party - merely the local branch of Mr Miliband's organization. Less autonomy than the Scottish Tories or LDs, in fact. To talk of Labour in an independent Scotland is meaningless. No doubt some of the SLAB pols might survive and regroup, but that isn't the same thing at all.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:

    fitalass said:

    "Clearly this is driven by the polls and the absence of bad news for Sturgeon and her party. The fact that the election of Labour’s new Scottish leader, Jim Murphy, has failed to dent the SNP’s polling position is clearly helping."

    Mike, now that we are over the Indy Referendum, Salmond's resignation and Sturgeon's coronation tour its now business as usual up here in Scotland. And right now the SNP do have a few domestic problems which have been steadily piling up after being sidelined during the Indy Referendum campaign this year. Namely the state of the Scottish NHS.

    Good point - but as yet this has yet to find its way into the polls.



    Just because SLAB say it exists is not a good philosophical position for a Scottish Tory to adopt as a verification of the truth.

    In any case, the Scottish Health Service- to give it its proper name before Mr Rifkind's mischievous change - does have problems - the biggest single problem, in many areas, by far being the PFI/PPP inheritance from Labour and the Tories. Not only did this destroy many existing hospitals and replace them with much less in the way of facilities, but it burdened them into future decades with ridiculous levels of payment and a managerial inflexibility that has to be seen to be believed.

    Osborne has continued the madness with PF2-mutton dressed as lamb-still PFI.The problem for any EU government is the 3% limit which the Treasury has insisted are rules when,in effect they are guidelines.The end product is that we are borrowing £ 300 billion for at least 13% when we could do so with gilts at 3%.The bankers need to take a big hair-cut and the rest is dealt with my QE instead so you buy out all the contracts at 10p in the £.This would save us an absolute fortune and give public services breathing space by taking the contracts centrally.

    I would form a PFI central contracts committee based in the Cabinet Office and commence renegotiation with the PFI bankers immediately and inform them we must get our house in order so bankers will have to take the haircut.


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-finance-2-pf2
    Quite so. That's very much the spirit of debate in Scotland.

    IIRC at least one major public body in Scotland has already bitten the bullet and paid the Danegeld to eliminate the arrangement.

  • Best wishes for Mrs H
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Carnyx said:

    They bet all on indyref

    Good thing they won it then.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Carnyx said:



    [edit]


    ROFL

    SNP and fiscal rectitude ? Hows that oil price ?

    You remain stuck in a Lalal land where SLAB could never be in power, the recent history of Scotland suggests otherwise.

    And now we enter that interesting phase where the Holyrood govt no longer has a benign environment on which to keep spending. It will be interesting to see how the SNP handle it.

    Blame the english just for a change ?

    What on earth are you talking about? We're the ones who want full responsibility - no problem about whose fault it is then.

    As for SLAB, their entire policy was based on preventing a referendum for independence, and therefore fiddling the voting system, and then when they fouled that up, getting in bed with Tories after decades denouncing them as spawn of the Thatcherite devil, allowing Mr Cameron to stab them in the back, etc. etc. They bet all on indyref and there is no way anything recogniseably SLAB could survive after losing an indyref. Not least because there is no such entity as a Scottish Labour Party - merely the local branch of Mr Miliband's organization. Less autonomy than the Scottish Tories or LDs, in fact. To talk of Labour in an independent Scotland is meaningless. No doubt some of the SLAB pols might survive and regroup, but that isn't the same thing at all.
    well a nice re-run of Nat demons but I remain as puzzled as ever as to what the SNP will do different except try to spend non-existent oil money.

    As ever the only formula for clapped out nationalist movements remains to accentuate the few differences there might be and to create them where none exist.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carnyx said:

    What on earth are you talking about? We're the ones who want full responsibility - no problem about whose fault it is then.

    Is this what Nicola calls "full responsibility"?
    Sturgeon ... called on Holyrood’s parties to unite around a plea to the UK Government to ease the tax burden on the sector and support innovation.

    She said: “The industry wants us to unite to call on the UK Government to accelerate action around the new investment allowance, they want us to unite to call on them to increase support for innovation, and I think we should call on the UK Government to take more action around reducing the supplementary charge.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-urged-4837553

    Those bastards in Westminster. Why won't they bail us out when our figures are wrong..?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,566

    Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    Bloody hell I feel really bad now. I had noticed that David had not been around recently but had missed the news as to why. Apologies to David and hope things are improving for him and his wife.
    Hear hear - and welcome back David.

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    Bloody hell I feel really bad now. I had noticed that David had not been around recently but had missed the news as to why. Apologies to David and hope things are improving for him and his wife.
    Hear hear - and welcome back David.

    Indeed, welcome back and best wishes to Mrs H.
    Even if I'm playing catch-up I read every thread on PB (with a bit of skimming!) and I missed the news first time around (if indeed it was announced)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 2015

    Good news

    David Herdson returns to his Saturday slot tomorrow - the first since his wife's car crash.

    Bloody hell I feel really bad now. I had noticed that David had not been around recently but had missed the news as to why. Apologies to David and hope things are improving for him and his wife.
    I don't think David Herdson's bad news was mentioned publicly on PB, which is why you shouldn't feel bad.
  • Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
  • Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
    George Osborne is the most popular politician in the country*

    He's not a weak product. He's the Bollinger to Labour's white lightning.

    *technically he's the least unpopular politician in the country.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    advertising can never make up for a weak product

    Ed is ****ed then
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
    George Osborne is the most popular politician in the country*

    He's not a weak product. He's the Bollinger to Labour's white lightning.

    *technically he's the least unpopular politician in the country.
    I once had a badge for a Trabant de Luxe. Same thing.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Scott_P said:

    advertising can never make up for a weak product

    Ed is ****ed then
    neither blue nor red is looking convincing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
    George Osborne is the most popular politician in the country*

    He's not a weak product. He's the Bollinger to Labour's white lightning.

    *technically he's the least unpopular politician in the country.
    And the most popular heir-to-a-baronetcy to boot!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Who has come down 10 on the back of the SNP rise in spins market ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2015
    .
  • Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
    George Osborne is the most popular politician in the country*

    He's not a weak product. He's the Bollinger to Labour's white lightning.

    *technically he's the least unpopular politician in the country.
    I once had a badge for a Trabant de Luxe. Same thing.
    Always knew you were a Commie.

    Only lefties are so enraged by Osborne's brilliance :-)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Scott_P said:

    advertising can never make up for a weak product

    Ed is ****ed then
    neither blue nor red is looking convincing.
    Looking at the midpoint of the spreads above, it seems that is the punters view too. I cannot see a viable government on those figures.

    PS sorry to hear of DH and TUDs misfortunes, I hope the New Year brings better fortunes.
  • RobD said:

    Sort of on topic

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    Ed Miliband’s campaign chief insists party can win key seats through ‘conversation by conversation’ local activism

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/02/labour-general-election-campaign-douglas-alexander

    Tories to outspend Labour by 3 to 1 in general election

    they sort of need to

    but advertising can never make up for a weak product
    George Osborne is the most popular politician in the country*

    He's not a weak product. He's the Bollinger to Labour's white lightning.

    *technically he's the least unpopular politician in the country.
    And the most popular heir-to-a-baronetcy to boot!
    He achieved all of this after his career ending tears at Lady Thatcher's funeral.
This discussion has been closed.