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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos Mori sees the Tories retain their 3% lead

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited December 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos Mori sees the Tories retain their 3% lead

Before the Tories get too excited, this poll sees the polling just over their 1997 nadir, and given Labour are polling close to their 2010 nadir, it could well be that the next general election is a case of the resistible force meeting a moveable object.

Read the full story here


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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    edited December 2014
    First! Unlike Labour.
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    Out of interest (and I can probably look it up), YouGov used to spend out the net sanctification with each daily poll. What sort of territory are we in now in regards to net government sanctification?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    What happened to my comment ?
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715
    Same as last time so can't say rogue.....I know - 'dodgy methodology'.

    I would decant half of the Green share into the Labour column to give a truer picture.
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    Out of interest (and I can probably look it up), YouGov used to spend out the net sanctification with each daily poll. What sort of territory are we in now in regards to net government sanctification?

    It is stuck in the minus 20s for quite some time

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/8x6ng4boek/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Government-Approval-171214.pdf
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    Same as last time so can't say rogue.....I know - 'dodgy methodology'.

    I would decant half of the Green share into the Labour column to give a truer picture.

    Then let's take 2% off Labour and give it to the Lib Dems, and knock 3% off UKIP going 2-1 in favour of the Tories. Then if I still don't like the result I'll make another adjustment.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited December 2014
    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/


    TSE - did I see you will be taking time off pre the election to ensure he will be ejected in May? I may liase to tag along one day. Especially as a Tory-free zone here in Bercow land.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited December 2014
    Obviously I would never pay any attention to a UK poll's Scottish sub-sample but whoa there missus.

    EDIT: Also Scotland's "Certain to Vote" figure remains astronomical compared to other regions
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    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/


    TSE - did I see you will be taking time off pre the election to ensure he will be ejected in May? I may liase to tag along one day. Especially as a Tory-free zone here in Bercow land.

    Yup, I'll vanilla message you in the evening, and we can liaise.
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    FPT - Shadsy listed a new market (just in case the punters missed it)

    Ladbrokes now have a market on exact number of Lib Dem seats.
    0 is 50/1
    57, which they got in 2010, is 150/1
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/18/how-many-seats-will-the-lib-dems-win/


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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    Same as last time so can't say rogue.....I know - 'dodgy methodology'.

    I would decant half of the Green share into the Labour column to give a truer picture.

    Then let's take 2% off Labour and give it to the Lib Dems, and knock 3% off UKIP going 2-1 in favour of the Tories. Then if I still don't like the result I'll make another adjustment.
    The Greens aren't standing a candidate in every seat though are they? So it makes sense to knock off a percentage of their share and allocate it to the likely recipients doesn't it?
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    Out of interest (and I can probably look it up), YouGov used to spend out the net sanctification with each daily poll. What sort of territory are we in now in regards to net government sanctification?

    It is stuck in the minus 20s for quite some time

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/8x6ng4boek/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Government-Approval-171214.pdf
    Thanks. I am just thinking back over the course of the parliament about the net sanctification rating in the context of the rest of the polling.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/

    Did you seriously expect him to walk away from a publicity opportunity like that, which idiot decided to sue him in the first place, now he looked bullied if he loses and vindicated if he succeeds. Takes a special talent to give a lawyer the opportunity to play the victim!

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    edited December 2014

    Out of interest (and I can probably look it up), YouGov used to spend out the net sanctification with each daily poll. What sort of territory are we in now in regards to net government sanctification?

    Disapproval at the moment leading by 54-31. Basically all Tories and most LibDems (47-35) think it's good, all Labour and most UKIP think it's bad.

    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/12/18/conservatives-and-labour-tied/

    Cameron's lead over Miliband as best PM is down 4 in the same poll (same trend as in IPSOS-MORI where it's down 6). Basically Tories think Cameron is good, and don't like Miliband, Labour voters think Miliband is good (and I think that's the bit that's gone up) or they don't know, and don't like Cameron. Thus very little scope for Con<->Lab switching for voters who care about leaders.

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    isam said:

    Same as last time so can't say rogue.....I know - 'dodgy methodology'.

    I would decant half of the Green share into the Labour column to give a truer picture.

    Then let's take 2% off Labour and give it to the Lib Dems, and knock 3% off UKIP going 2-1 in favour of the Tories. Then if I still don't like the result I'll make another adjustment.
    The Greens aren't standing a candidate in every seat though are they? So it makes sense to knock off a percentage of their share and allocate it to the likely recipients doesn't it?
    Well, the likely recipients might be DNV. And the Greens will be disproportionately standing in seats where their voters are, you would have thought. But, yes, the current Green "vote" is probably Labour's best hope of keeping their GE poll in the 30s.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 9.4%
    Con seat lead 90

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.9%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 26.2%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 73.8%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    A slight weakening of the strong Tory position from last month, probably just MOE

    The figures would imply a Tory majority of about 20 with 335 seats.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    ComRes surveys the scene, though the conclusions won't be new to most here:

    http://comresupdates.eu.com/DCJ-32FDT-F21LMD8E11/cr.aspx
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/17/east-dunbartonshire-snp-now-favourites/

    The £10 I invested in the SNP there could be my best bet of my betting career. Perhaps not the £200 I put on Labour at 1-2. Nevertheless it's a good position on the seat.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,715

    isam said:

    Same as last time so can't say rogue.....I know - 'dodgy methodology'.

    I would decant half of the Green share into the Labour column to give a truer picture.

    Then let's take 2% off Labour and give it to the Lib Dems, and knock 3% off UKIP going 2-1 in favour of the Tories. Then if I still don't like the result I'll make another adjustment.
    The Greens aren't standing a candidate in every seat though are they? So it makes sense to knock off a percentage of their share and allocate it to the likely recipients doesn't it?
    Well, the likely recipients might be DNV. And the Greens will be disproportionately standing in seats where their voters are, you would have thought. But, yes, the current Green "vote" is probably Labour's best hope of keeping their GE poll in the 30s.
    Anecdote: My Green other half would vote Labour if there was no Green candidate. That's what she does in the locals. I would do the same in reverse.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Cameron must be witless to sanction such a petty move against Reckless, gives UKIP some publicity, makes The Tories look mean and vindictive. Sean Woodward must think he got off lightly skipping off to join Labour.
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    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Crosby, I'd be surprised if that happens. Then again, your prediction was much closer than mine for the 2010 election.
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    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 9.4%
    Con seat lead 90

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.9%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 26.2%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 73.8%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    A slight weakening of the strong Tory position from last month, probably just MOE

    The figures would imply a Tory majority of about 20 with 335 seats.

    What if it's applied to yesterday's ICM?

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    MaxPB said:

    First! Unlike Labour.

    Lab ARE first if you count all seven polls so far this week :)
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    The original headline for this piece was

    "Ipsos-Mori confirm their status as the New Gold Standard"
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 9.4%
    Con seat lead 90

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.9%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 26.2%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 73.8%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    A slight weakening of the strong Tory position from last month, probably just MOE

    The figures would imply a Tory majority of about 20 with 335 seats.

    What if it's applied to yesterday's ICM?

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 9.4%
    Con seat lead 90

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.9%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 26.2%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 73.8%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    A slight weakening of the strong Tory position from last month, probably just MOE

    The figures would imply a Tory majority of about 20 with 335 seats.

    What if it's applied to yesterday's ICM?

    It can't be, as there's no PM approval figure...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    RodCrosby said:

    Applying the L&N model to IPSOS we have:-

    (Central forecast)

    Con vote lead 9.4%
    Con seat lead 90

    (10000 Monte Carlo simulations)

    Chance of Tory vote lead: 100.0%
    Chance of a Tory seat lead: 99.9%

    Chance of a Hung Parliament: 26.2%
    Chance of a Tory majority: 73.8%
    Chance of a Labour majority: 0.0%

    A slight weakening of the strong Tory position from last month, probably just MOE

    The figures would imply a Tory majority of about 20 with 335 seats.

    What if it's applied to yesterday's ICM?

    No PM ratings from ICM.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    edited December 2014

    The original headline for this piece was

    "Ipsos-Mori confirm their status as the New Gold Standard"

    In the four weeks since Rochester, there have been only four polls to show a Tory lead.

    There were NINE in the four weeks leading up to Rochester...
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Crosby, I'd be surprised if that happens. Then again, your prediction was much closer than mine for the 2010 election.

    Current forecast 2015 Tory leads from various models (with movement from last month)

    Byelection swingback: -0.5% up
    Hanretty: 1.7% down
    Fisher: 2.5% down
    2009-2010 repeat: 3.3% down
    Prosser: 5.0% n/c
    L&N: 9.4% down

    We see that L&N is something of an outlier at the moment, although there is some indication of convergence.
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    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/


    TSE - did I see you will be taking time off pre the election to ensure he will be ejected in May? I may liase to tag along one day. Especially as a Tory-free zone here in Bercow land.

    The massive cock is whoever in the Tory party decided to sue him. Mind you it would be difficult to spot the culprit since there seem to be such a huge number of cocks of various sizes in the Tory party these days.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited December 2014
    dr_spyn said:

    Cameron must be witless to sanction such a petty move against Reckless, gives UKIP some publicity, makes The Tories look mean and vindictive. Sean Woodward must think he got off lightly skipping off to join Labour.

    I'm sure Cameron, and indeed Tory HQ, had no idea that the local association had lodged at the small claims court. It was somewhat naive of them, to be sure.
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    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/

    Has any one worked out what the Local Association's cause of action against Reckless is? A claim in restitution for quantum meruit perhaps? The association is also going to have terrible trouble if Court of Appeal's analysis of the party's constitutional structure in Conservative Central Office v Burrell (Inspector of Taxes) [1982] 1 WLR 522 still holds true. Lawton LJ (with whom Brightman & Fox LJJ agreed) stated (at 525G-H):
    Once elected members of the House of Commons they become representatives of the constituency for which they have been elected, not delegates of the local constituency associations which may have put them up as candidates. On the facts as found I can find nothing which links contractually and directly members of local constituency associations to Conservative members of the House of Commons representing their constituencies.
    It is quite possible the claim may raise a point of law of some importance. If so, it may be heading out of the fast track and into the multi-track, much to the benefit of counsel...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Once elected members of the House of Commons they become representatives of the constituency for which they have been elected, not delegates of the local constituency associations which may have put them up as candidates.

    Presumably the action is based on him being the candidate next time, not last time. If he wasn't the candidate, they would not have printed election literature with him on it one assumes.
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    We need more MPs who understand science.
    This Tory is in favour of homeopathy on the NHS!
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30533414
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Nicola has stated the price will rise above $100 in the new year
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/


    TSE - did I see you will be taking time off pre the election to ensure he will be ejected in May? I may liase to tag along one day. Especially as a Tory-free zone here in Bercow land.

    The massive cock is whoever in the Tory party decided to sue him. Mind you it would be difficult to spot the culprit since there seem to be such a huge number of cocks of various sizes in the Tory party these days.
    The tory party consists of local associations. Its the local association sueing him. Is that too hard to understand.
    It was of course the local association that selected reckless in the first place.
    The point about the small claims is that the claim is small. Is Reckless so short of money he cannot stand up in the small claims court to defend himself and has to con money out of people?
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    Scott_P said:

    Presumably the action is based on him being the candidate next time, not last time. If he wasn't the candidate, they would not have printed election literature with him on it one assumes.

    The question is what is the cause of action, not what alleged facts it may be based on. There is no general right in law or equity to recover moneys a person (or members of an unincorporated association) would rather he would not have spent.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    How is a possible 10% loss a 'collapse'?
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited December 2014

    The tory party consists of local associations. Its the local association sueing him. Is that too hard to understand.
    It was of course the local association that selected reckless in the first place.
    The point about the small claims is that the claim is small. Is Reckless so short of money he cannot stand up in the small claims court to defend himself and has to con money out of people?

    "Con money" out of people? Is the imputation that Reckless has a fraudulent purpose in collecting this money or will otherwise breach his fiduciary duties to the donors?
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    Just when you think Mark Reckless' impersonation of a massive cock can't get any better....

    Guido Fawkes‏@GuidoFawkes·6 mins6 minutes ago
    UPDATE: Tories respond to trained barrister Mark Reckless crowdfunding his small claims defence http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/reckless-crowdfunds-defence-against-tory-legal-claim/


    TSE - did I see you will be taking time off pre the election to ensure he will be ejected in May? I may liase to tag along one day. Especially as a Tory-free zone here in Bercow land.

    The massive cock is whoever in the Tory party decided to sue him. Mind you it would be difficult to spot the culprit since there seem to be such a huge number of cocks of various sizes in the Tory party these days.
    The tory party consists of local associations. Its the local association sueing him. Is that too hard to understand.
    It was of course the local association that selected reckless in the first place.
    The point about the small claims is that the claim is small. Is Reckless so short of money he cannot stand up in the small claims court to defend himself and has to con money out of people?
    Sore-Loserman!
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Just as The Tories couldn't get any more stupid, Guido picks up a story showing them to be led by donkeys.

    http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/ebenezer-grayling-threatens-to-cancel-christmas/
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    FPT
    Charles suggests - Support from the other members of the Union to help Scotland in dealing with an external shock (such as a decline in the oil price) could be described as a "union dividend".

    I suppose it could but the whole point of the Union is that it is greater than the sum of its parts. Where industries and regions decline, all over the country, the country's taxpayers generally invest in compensating measures.

    On the topic.
    4% ahead is better than 3% behind, whoever you are. Is there anything to be gleaned other than things are broadly level? Plus - how can 2 polls be so different?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763

    How is a possible 10% loss a 'collapse'?
    if it relates to 100% of tax revenues ?
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    Mr. Song, that MP sounds like a silly sod.

    Diluting something does not make it stronger. It's hardly advanced science.
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    Mr. Song, that MP sounds like a silly sod.

    Diluting something does not make it stronger. It's hardly advanced science.

    How could this guy get on "the influential House of Commons Health Select Committee"?
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5007118.stm
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    Mr. Song, he shouldn't be there. A chap incapable of understanding diluting stuff makes it weaker, not stronger, has no business trying to get the NHS to waste taxpayers' money on anti-scientific mumbo-jumbo.
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    The Local Association's case is that Reckless and his agent - who also defected - were authorising spending on literature, which they knew would have to be scrapped because they intended to defect.
    Reckless spending of other people's money.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Betfair Most Seats - Lab getting very, very close to evens.

    Lab 1.98/1.99
    Con 2.06/2.08

    I don't think Lab has been odds against since early 2012 - there was a temporary spike on the graph since then but I think that was a "rogue trade".
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Rob's graph makes very interesting reading.

    Much talk about ICM and MORI as far as Lab and Con are concerned but the two polls pretty much net out.

    The big moves this week are LD up and UKIP down. The most recent average blob is only based on this week's 7 polls so not a full 15 day period but the moves are significant.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1v1-aXNoGwZSLOIWziLoqq9rbN3MHg6qezWKbjsAkunw/edit?pli=1#gid=1268197642
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    dr_spyn said:

    Just as The Tories couldn't get any more stupid, Guido picks up a story showing them to be led by donkeys.

    http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/ebenezer-grayling-threatens-to-cancel-christmas/

    You have to wonder about some of the Conservatives. Not joining in a carol service because the organist is a UKIP candidate, FFS. What sort of person would come up with that line and why would anyone want to vote for such a person?
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Scott_P said:

    Presumably the action is based on him being the candidate next time, not last time. If he wasn't the candidate, they would not have printed election literature with him on it one assumes.

    The question is what is the cause of action, not what alleged facts it may be based on. There is no general right in law or equity to recover moneys a person (or members of an unincorporated association) would rather he would not have spent.
    Tort of deceit.

    "at law or in equity" btw, not "in law or equity".
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.
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    Mr. Llama, it does come across as rather childish.

    Mind you, every time Grayling's mentioned I think of his response to a question about Dannatt[sp].
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    The Local Association's case is that Reckless and his agent - who also defected - were authorising spending on literature, which they knew would have to be scrapped because they intended to defect.
    Reckless spending of other people's money.

    I can't see that flying. All Reckless would have to do would be to claim (possibly quite legitimately) that he hadn't finally made his mind up about the defection until just before it was announced.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291

    dr_spyn said:

    Just as The Tories couldn't get any more stupid, Guido picks up a story showing them to be led by donkeys.

    http://order-order.com/2014/12/18/ebenezer-grayling-threatens-to-cancel-christmas/

    You have to wonder about some of the Conservatives. Not joining in a carol service because the organist is a UKIP candidate, FFS. What sort of person would come up with that line and why would anyone want to vote for such a person?
    Guido helpfully pointed out that the UKIP guy played at the carol service last year.

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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, it does come across as rather childish.

    Mind you, every time Grayling's mentioned I think of his response to a question about Dannatt[sp].

    Childish is a polite way of describing it. It is not as if the UKIP chap is going to be making a speech or even appearing in the public eye - he is going to be playing the organ the same way he has done in previous years. Grayling is just showing himself up for the sort of person he actually is.

    I dare say our regular Conservative apologist will be along shortly to tell us that Grayling was quite proper in his action and the UKIP fellow was trying to con the public and behaving disgracefully in accepting an invitation to play carols on the organ.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    "For me the most interesting polling find from this is Nigel Farage’s ratings have a fallen by a net 14 points in a month, it could be the negative publicity UKIP have experienced over the those vying to be the UKIP candidate in Basildon and the debate over his comments on public breastfeeding. "

    Froth is already off the Kipper VI.

    Look at the downward trajectory in the last month or so

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election


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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,883
    edited December 2014
    I'm starting to think it'd actually be better for Labour (and the Lib Dems) if the Greens were included in the debates. Not including them will only amplify their anti-establishment credentials and if none of the leaders impress then the Greens could be the go to option for a lot of people. They could actually benefit on account of their absence. I also think the chances of Natalie Bennett storming the debates are pretty low, especially if she's only involved in one.

    The Green's anti-austerity message can't be left unchallenged, it needs standing up to scrutiny as much as the major policies of the other parties do.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    TGOHF said:

    "For me the most interesting polling find from this is Nigel Farage’s ratings have a fallen by a net 14 points in a month, it could be the negative publicity UKIP have experienced over the those vying to be the UKIP candidate in Basildon and the debate over his comments on public breastfeeding. "

    Froth is already off the Kipper VI.

    Look at the downward trajectory in the last month or so

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election


    Staggering!
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    Pulpstar said:

    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/17/east-dunbartonshire-snp-now-favourites/

    The £10 I invested in the SNP there could be my best bet of my betting career. Perhaps not the £200 I put on Labour at 1-2. Nevertheless it's a good position on the seat.

    The LDs are flinging money at E.Dunbartonshire like there's no tomorrow (maybe there isn't for them in Scotland).

    'The seat is the most marginal of the 11 held by LibDems in Scotland, and would fall next May on a swing to Labour of just 2.3%.
    The SNP, who came fourth in the seat in 2010, would need a swing of 14.1% to win it.
    To help avert defeat, the party has hired a full-time campaign manager for the seat, which is now being flooded with out-of-town cash.
    Over the last decade, cash donations to the East Dunbartonshire branch recorded by the Electoral Commission averaged around £2000 a year.
    However between April and August, donations hit £46,365, with three-quarters of the money coming from donors based in England.'

    http://scottishpol.blogspot.co.uk/

    It probably indicates that they know their only chance is all guns blazing.
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    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.
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    Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited December 2014
    Ishmael_X said:

    Tort of deceit.

    That may prove rather difficult to establish. The ingredients of the tort were summarised by Jackson LJ in EC03 Capital v Ludsin Overseas Ltd [2013] EWCA Civ 413 (at [77]) as follows:
    i) The defendant makes a false representation to the claimant.
    ii) The defendant knows that the representation is false, alternatively he is reckless as to whether it is true or false.
    iii) The defendant intends that the claimant should act in reliance on it.
    iv) The claimant does act in reliance on the representation and in consequence suffers loss.
    There is a reason why actions for deceit are rarely brought. The mens rea requirements are onerous and rightly so. Even supposing the second limb were established, proving the third limb will be almost impossible, given the extent to which the scope of oblique intention has been narrowed in recent years. The Local Association would do better to argue Reckless was liable for negligent misstatement (cf. Hedley Byrne v Heller [1964] AC 465).
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Much as I hate to stick up for trolls, fairs fair he did mention it at the bottom of the header
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    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Which I mentioned in the thread header and was obvious in the graphic tweeted.

    The ability of Kippers to be ignorant of the things right in front of them, never manages to surprise.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Mr. Song, that MP sounds like a silly sod.

    Diluting something does not make it stronger. It's hardly advanced science.

    Dilution can make something more medically effective though. [/pedant]
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    "For me the most interesting polling find from this is Nigel Farage’s ratings have a fallen by a net 14 points in a month, it could be the negative publicity UKIP have experienced over the those vying to be the UKIP candidate in Basildon and the debate over his comments on public breastfeeding. "

    Froth is already off the Kipper VI.

    Look at the downward trajectory in the last month or so

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election


    Staggering!
    Plummeting vertically down.

    If you turn your screen 90 deg. clockwise, after disabling auto-rotate.

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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited December 2014
    isam said:

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Much as I hate to stick up for trolls, fairs fair he did mention it at the bottom of the header
    TSE is a troll? He writes articles for the entire blog. Personally I think that allows him to comment where he wants.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Admit it, you wish you hadn't posted that, don't you.
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    Mr. M, well, yes. Oxygen is better if it's not 100%.

    The only thing worse than homeopathic medicine is an acupuncture pillow fight.
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    On the subject of the previous thread, I note with some satisfaction that Labour are, uncharacteristically, ahead in Ealing Central & Acton and Stevenage.

    As tipped by me here:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/the-cloud-of-unknowing-seats-with-no.html

    and here:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/testing-boundaries-1-conservatives-vs.html
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    It's surely a masterstroke that the one man band has the band leader striking a bum note.

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    MikeL said:

    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.

    Judging by the activities of Mr Grayling and the Rochester Conservative Association, the Conservative Party will ensure that UKIP get plenty of publicity next year.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited December 2014

    Mr. M, well, yes. Oxygen is better if it's not 100%.

    The only thing worse than homeopathic medicine is an acupuncture pillow fight.

    Exactly, Mr Dancer, exactly! Chemotherapy doses, application of medicinal leeches etc.
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    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Good use of Fargle.
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    F1: ooh, Ladbrokes has a 2015 specials market up.

    Hamilton to beat the current record of 13 wins in a season at 9.... is worth backing.

    Mercedes to win every race at 17 may also be worth a look.

    Alonso to win in Australia at 15 is an outsider possibly worth considering [McLaren tends to do well in Oz]. Downsides are Mercedes and probably Williams.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,916
    edited December 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    http://politicalbookie.com/2014/12/17/east-dunbartonshire-snp-now-favourites/

    The £10 I invested in the SNP there could be my best bet of my betting career. Perhaps not the £200 I put on Labour at 1-2. Nevertheless it's a good position on the seat.

    The LDs are flinging money at E.Dunbartonshire like there's no tomorrow (maybe there isn't for them in Scotland).

    'The seat is the most marginal of the 11 held by LibDems in Scotland, and would fall next May on a swing to Labour of just 2.3%.
    The SNP, who came fourth in the seat in 2010, would need a swing of 14.1% to win it.
    To help avert defeat, the party has hired a full-time campaign manager for the seat, which is now being flooded with out-of-town cash.
    Over the last decade, cash donations to the East Dunbartonshire branch recorded by the Electoral Commission averaged around £2000 a year.
    However between April and August, donations hit £46,365, with three-quarters of the money coming from donors based in England.'

    http://scottishpol.blogspot.co.uk/

    It probably indicates that they know their only chance is all guns blazing.
    That's interesting, especially if it is counterproductive in showing just how frightened the Unionists are of an ickle little SNP MP, as Wings argues, plus he highlights some interesting constituency bumf being sent out by the LDs in Gordon which might annoy the other Unionists:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/running-terrified/#more-64595




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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,167
    All in all a good polling day for the Tories, ahead with Mori and in contrast to earlier batches, doing slightly better in the latest Ashcroft marginals' poll than their poll rating nationally

    The Greens will also be pleased that Caroline Lucas is comfortably ahead in Brighton Pavilion
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    EddieEddie Posts: 34
    It is completely unacceptable to have polls for the Greens varying between 2% and 9% in the space of a week. I do not accept a margin of error or different methodology explanation. This gap is too great.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,916
    IN passing and OT, SLAB continue to refuse to disclose membership numbers, and bear manure can be collected from forested areas ...

    http://paulhutcheon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/political-transparency.html
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Can we now call ICM an outlier?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,916
    GeoffM said:

    Mr. M, well, yes. Oxygen is better if it's not 100%.

    The only thing worse than homeopathic medicine is an acupuncture pillow fight.

    Exactly, Mr Dancer, exactly! Chemotherapy doses, application of medicinal leeches etc.
    Not a lot wrong with leeches in their proper place. Very useful sometimes in removing extravasated blood, as a (fortunately zoologist) chap I know discovered recently.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,970

    MikeL said:

    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.

    Judging by the activities of Mr Grayling and the Rochester Conservative Association, the Conservative Party will ensure that UKIP get plenty of publicity next year.
    Neither Mr. Grayling, nor Mr. Elphicke, nor the Rochester Association seem to be the sharpest tools in the box.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carnyx said:

    IN passing and OT, SLAB continue to refuse to disclose membership numbers, and bear manure can be collected from forested areas ...

    http://paulhutcheon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/political-transparency.html

    I note the SNP have started retreating from their punative stamp duty rates for hard working families as raised here after the autumn statement and dismissed by Nats as a "Non Issue"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/11302086/Nicola-Sturgeon-I-will-study-Tory-property-tax-changes.html

    "Nicola Sturgeon has promised to carefully consider Tory proposals to halve the SNP’s ten per cent tax on middle-class Scots moving home as estate agents warned it will damage property values."

  • Options

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Which I mentioned in the thread header and was obvious in the graphic tweeted.

    The ability of Kippers to be ignorant of the things right in front of them, never manages to surprise.
    Yes I do appear to have erred for which apologies.

    I must remember always to read the small print.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,916
    TGOHF said:

    Carnyx said:

    IN passing and OT, SLAB continue to refuse to disclose membership numbers, and bear manure can be collected from forested areas ...

    http://paulhutcheon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/political-transparency.html

    I note the SNP have started retreating from their punative stamp duty rates for hard working families as raised here after the autumn statement and dismissed by Nats as a "Non Issue"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/11302086/Nicola-Sturgeon-I-will-study-Tory-property-tax-changes.html

    "Nicola Sturgeon has promised to carefully consider Tory proposals to halve the SNP’s ten per cent tax on middle-class Scots moving home as estate agents warned it will damage property values."

    Where do the hard working families come in? What about the Tory voting single pensioner, which is far more likely to be the issue in the Tory mind?

    In any case, you might inquire why it took the Unionist parties collectively x decades to do this common sense change at this particular moment in galactic history ... it doesn'[t matter what the SNP rate would have been, the Tories would have undercut it as a matter of principle.

    I see you haven't commented on APD: now that is an example of how public money is now being directed at families who can afford to go on foreign holidays.

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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    MikeL said:

    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.

    Judging by the activities of Mr Grayling and the Rochester Conservative Association, the Conservative Party will ensure that UKIP get plenty of publicity next year.
    I'm sure there will be plenty more 'Kerry Smiths' and 'Natasha Bolters' to keep us amused and entertained in 2015.
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    It's also pleasing to note that Lord Ashcroft's prompting for the Greens in Brighton Pavilion meant that a 1% lead for Labour the last time that he polled this seat has been converted into a 10% lead for the Greens. Modesty forbids me to mention who drew attention to this oddity in his polling in this seat:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/other-parties-battlegrounds-in-november.html

    Should his Lordship (or one of his minions) be reading the thread, the seats that it would be really useful to see a prompt for the Greens in are Norwich South and Bristol West.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Indigo said:

    The Local Association's case is that Reckless and his agent - who also defected - were authorising spending on literature, which they knew would have to be scrapped because they intended to defect.
    Reckless spending of other people's money.

    I can't see that flying. All Reckless would have to do would be to claim (possibly quite legitimately) that he hadn't finally made his mind up about the defection until just before it was announced.

    Legs with bells on comes to mind. Perhaps as well I am not a judge.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF said:

    Carnyx said:

    IN passing and OT, SLAB continue to refuse to disclose membership numbers, and bear manure can be collected from forested areas ...

    http://paulhutcheon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/political-transparency.html

    I note the SNP have started retreating from their punative stamp duty rates for hard working families as raised here after the autumn statement and dismissed by Nats as a "Non Issue"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/11302086/Nicola-Sturgeon-I-will-study-Tory-property-tax-changes.html

    "Nicola Sturgeon has promised to carefully consider Tory proposals to halve the SNP’s ten per cent tax on middle-class Scots moving home as estate agents warned it will damage property values."

    Where do the hard working families come in? What about the Tory voting single pensioner, which is far more likely to be the issue in the Tory mind?

    In any case, you might inquire why it took the Unionist parties collectively x decades to do this common sense change at this particular moment in galactic history ... it doesn'[t matter what the SNP rate would have been, the Tories would have undercut it as a matter of principle.

    I see you haven't commented on APD: now that is an example of how public money is now being directed at families who can afford to go on foreign holidays.

    How many sIngle pensioners are buying £250k houses ? More likely to be selling them which means the Con proposal is more attractive.

    The SNP rate was far too high at far too low an amount - they will retreat to the more sensible Conservative position.
  • Options
    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    "The LDs are flinging money at E.Dunbartonshire like there's no tomorrow [...]"

    "It probably indicates that they know their only chance is all guns blazing."


    Well, if the Tories are going to spend 78,000,000 (so far, and counting) on the election, it does make sense for the Lib Dems to spend at least a few thousands defending their held seats.

    The way that Tory posters on PB talk - and indeed, those of other parties - anybody would think that the Lib Dems are happy to roll over and let themselves be slaughtered.

    Since the Lib Dems have vastly smaller financial resources than the Tory Party, the Labour Party and the SNP, it does make sense for them to spend them where they will be most effective in winning seats.

    And in the case of Lib Dems, it´s not a matter of "flinging money" - but of using it to greatest effect.

  • Options
    A great showing by the Tories from a quality pollster ....... is it time, as I suggested recently, to start looking for value in some of those supposedly marginal seats, which ultimately might not prove so? Another couple of polls like this one and those individual constituency odds are likely to change out of sight.
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316

    MikeL said:

    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.

    Judging by the activities of Mr Grayling and the Rochester Conservative Association, the Conservative Party will ensure that UKIP get plenty of publicity next year.
    The only problem is that, as usual, there is a massive difference between what people on here notice and what 99.9% of the public notice.

    None of the above is mentioned at all on even the BBC Politics home page, let alone the BBC News home page.

    In contrast, UKIP winning a by-election will be the number 1 news story.
  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    I notice how TSE was gleefully tweeting that Fargles ratings were on the slide but didn't see the need to mention that Fargles rating was still higher than either Cameron, Clegg or Milipede Minor.

    Which I mentioned in the thread header and was obvious in the graphic tweeted.

    The ability of Kippers to be ignorant of the things right in front of them, never manages to surprise.
    Yes I do appear to have erred for which apologies.

    I must remember always to read the small print.
    Fair play to you. A lot of posters would have gone under the radar for a while and kept quiet.
  • Options
    MikeL said:

    What are everyone's thoughts on further UKIP defections?

    If anyone defects in January there certainly wouldn't have to be a by-election. Con obviously wouldn't want one but UKIP might - could UKIP move the writ?

    If not, it's going to be hard for UKIP to keep centre stage throughout Jan, Feb and Mar.

    Look at Rob's graph (previous post) - publicity is key to UKIP's polling strength.

    My spies tell me that there will be a further defection before the GE.

    They may be wrong. More important, there may be a change of heart. It would therefore be unwise to bet shedloads on it happening. But I certainly wouldn't bet shedloads against it.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    A great showing by the Tories from a quality pollster ....... is it time, as I suggested recently, to start looking for value in some of those supposedly marginal seats, which ultimately might not prove so? Another couple of polls like this one and those individual constituency odds are likely to change out of sight.

    Yes sensible betting - NOT , let's take notice of the one poll this week that we like and ignore the other 6 that we didn't .
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Carnyx said:

    TGOHF said:

    Carnyx said:

    IN passing and OT, SLAB continue to refuse to disclose membership numbers, and bear manure can be collected from forested areas ...

    http://paulhutcheon.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/political-transparency.html

    I note the SNP have started retreating from their punative stamp duty rates for hard working families as raised here after the autumn statement and dismissed by Nats as a "Non Issue"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertymarket/11302086/Nicola-Sturgeon-I-will-study-Tory-property-tax-changes.html

    "Nicola Sturgeon has promised to carefully consider Tory proposals to halve the SNP’s ten per cent tax on middle-class Scots moving home as estate agents warned it will damage property values."

    Where do the hard working families come in? What about the Tory voting single pensioner, which is far more likely to be the issue in the Tory mind?

    In any case, you might inquire why it took the Unionist parties collectively x decades to do this common sense change at this particular moment in galactic history ... it doesn'[t matter what the SNP rate would have been, the Tories would have undercut it as a matter of principle.

    I see you haven't commented on APD: now that is an example of how public money is now being directed at families who can afford to go on foreign holidays.

    APD has risen by 470% since 2007.
    It is being rationalised. Currently a 15-hour flight to Honolulu, would cost the same APD as a six-hour flight to New York and yet be lower than an eight-hour flight to New Delhi, India, just because it was regarded a US state and APD is based on the distance to the country's capital, rather than the actual destination
    We are actually trying to boost trade to Asian economies. Some people argue it should be cut or rationalised even more.

    I think it might be argued that public taxes in the era of Gordon Brown were massively and unfairly targeted at ordinary families, not least innocent children. You are looking through the wrong end of an admittedly socialist telescope.
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    F1: incidentally, I have backed those bets mentioned below. Put a small sum on Hamilton to beat the 13 wins in a season record at 9, less on Mercedes to win all races at 17 [they'll need some luck, but it's possible] and a tiny sum on Alonso to win in Oz at 15.

    There will be at least 1 and possibly 2 more races next season. This season, if Hamilton's car hadn't exploded when in winning or potentially winning positions, he could've had 14 wins.

    The biggest threat to Hamilton in that regard is that Rosberg drives too well.
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    Mr. Punter, don't suppose you could give us a name, perchance?
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    PClipp said:

    "The LDs are flinging money at E.Dunbartonshire like there's no tomorrow [...]"

    "It probably indicates that they know their only chance is all guns blazing."


    Well, if the Tories are going to spend 78,000,000 (so far, and counting) on the election, it does make sense for the Lib Dems to spend at least a few thousands defending their held seats.

    The way that Tory posters on PB talk - and indeed, those of other parties - anybody would think that the Lib Dems are happy to roll over and let themselves be slaughtered.

    Since the Lib Dems have vastly smaller financial resources than the Tory Party, the Labour Party and the SNP, it does make sense for them to spend them where they will be most effective in winning seats.

    And in the case of Lib Dems, it´s not a matter of "flinging money" - but of using it to greatest effect.

    If the LDs have vastly smaller resources, I'd suggest raising in 4 months more than twice the amount the constituency has received in the previous 10 years might qualify as certain donors flinging their money at E.Dunbartonshire. Whether allocating those resources to the LDs' most marginal Scottish constituency is using them to their greatest effect may also be a matter of opinion.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    A great showing by the Tories from a quality pollster ....... is it time, as I suggested recently, to start looking for value in some of those supposedly marginal seats, which ultimately might not prove so? Another couple of polls like this one and those individual constituency odds are likely to change out of sight.

    All to play for [for the Tories, Labour are already sunk]. If the Ashcroft movement since August is repeated between now and polling day, there will be a small overall swing TO the Tories, compared to 2010...
This discussion has been closed.