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  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    edited December 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    Good to see the tried and tested tactic of "but your criminals are as bad as our criminals" being deployed. Just say it. The Catholic church have been guilty of vile abuse of children for many years. Confession is good for the soul.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    TSE I read your heading and thought you meant that David Cameron will make a fool of the pollsters by thumping Labour and winning an overall majority.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    December averages
    YouGov- 0.3% lead
    Non YouGov- 2.6% lead
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    Here's a hint. just because group A doeas something bad doesn't mean group C is suddenly beyond criticism. It might suprise you to know that people are capable of thinking both group A and C have done bad things.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.

    We know that many abused children grow up themselves to be abusers. I do wonder whether Saville was abused himself in childhood.
  • Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Alistair said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    FPT

    Alistair said:

    Foolish TSE, the real villains are not the child abusers or indeed the man who we have documentary proof of encouraging a global cover up of child abuse, or indeed the organisation that then promoted that man to the head role in the org knowing full well he'd organised a cover up.

    Would you be so kind as to provide this "documentary proof"?

    Or keep your bigoted views to yourself?

    Choice is yours.
    I choose evidence

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/24/children.childprotection
    Oooh! From 2005, even worse than TSE.

    I refer you to my earlier answer to TSE.

    I knew you article was a crock of shit as well when I read this phrase:

    The order was made in a confidential letter, obtained by The Observer, which was sent to every Catholic bishop in May 2001.

    That's over 5,000 people.
    Do you think the Pope and his minions were right to close down the ecclesiastical courts to investigation of child abuse? Was it policy to encourage complainants to contact the civil authorities?
    Minions?

    I will give the answer I used to always give:

    If you suffer a crime, go to the police. Not exactly rocket science, is it?

    But after Rotherham, I'm not too sure.
    So did the Pope's minions encourage the victims to go to the police?
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church requires cooperation with the civil authorities over criminal matters.

    Bullshit answer: there is no position of minion in the Catholic Church, therefore you ask the impossible.
    So did the Catholic church functionaries report the accusations to the police?

    Or does co-operation with the civil authorities not extend that far?
    Why didn't the victims?

    They were the witnesses to the offences, after all.
    Did the Catholic authorities encourage them to report to the police or social services? Surely that is the responsibility of any adult who is approached with such accusations.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Just watched PMQ's

    .......... I mean even the left leaning people here must have seen Ed was absolutely drilled into the ground. He just was ......he really was. FFS Even BenM must have seen that ....?

    Please... Pretty Please with icing on the top and then those little glittery stars shit my duaghter always insisted in spraying on our remnants of the cakes we had tried to make when they came out of the oven burnt............ you have to realise


    Eds a dud and not only that .....a very dangerous dud...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    We had that excuse used earlier.. can it be so? I thought that, if a poll was not favourable, it wouldn't be published, but how could that work with daily/weekly/monthly ie regular polls?

    Survation and COMRES poll for the Daily Mirror, and their polls are UKIP friendly/The Mirror is probably the least friendly to UKIP

    ICM is considered the Gold Standard by many Tories and they poll for The Guardian
  • Moses_ said:

    Just watched PMQ's

    .......... I mean even the left leaning people here must have seen Ed was absolutely drilled into the ground. He just was ......he really was. FFS Even BenM must have seen that ....?

    Please... Pretty Please with icing on the top and then those little glittery stars shit my duaghter always insisted in spraying on our remnants of the cakes we had tried to make when they came out of the oven burnt............ you have to realise


    Eds a dud and not only that .....a very dangerous dud...

    But barely a word on here about PMQs, despite after all the petty bickering we've seen in the past ..... and all the more surprising considering we're only four and a half months from a General Election.
  • Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.

    We know that many abused children grow up themselves to be abusers. I do wonder whether Saville was abused himself in childhood.
    What, by dead people?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    saddened said:


    The Catholic church does a lot of good. Unfortunately it also does a huge amount of harm as well. Your foot stamping and huffing and puffing does not change that.

    Well, let's take a tour of this wonderful country:

    BBC (Savile, Denning, Souter, Yewtree, etc.)
    NHS (Stoke Mandeville)
    Rotherham MBC
    Rochdale MBC
    Tory Party (see Tim Fortescue for details)
    Liberal Democrats (Cyril Smith)
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/08/Exclusive-Lib-Lab-Paedo-Pact-Alleged-in-Rochdale
    Music schools
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/26/chelthams-teacher-michael-brewer-jailed
    Scouting Association
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/10/scout-association-apologises-for-child-abuse
    Prisons
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/medomsley-borstal-sex-ring-police-4576925
    MI6
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-was-warned-by-top-tory-1647786

    It's only a hard disk crash that prevents me posting more of my extensive collection of links.

    No wonder UKIP scare people; so many people in this country have so much to hide.
  • isam said:

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    We had that excuse used earlier.. can it be so? I thought that, if a poll was not favourable, it wouldn't be published, but how could that work with daily/weekly/monthly ie regular polls?

    Survation and COMRES poll for the Daily Mirror, and their polls are UKIP friendly/The Mirror is probably the least friendly to UKIP

    ICM is considered the Gold Standard by many Tories and they poll for The Guardian
    I'm certainly not making excuses, I'm simply saying as I find. Maybe I'm wrong.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited December 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    saddened said:


    The Catholic church does a lot of good. Unfortunately it also does a huge amount of harm as well. Your foot stamping and huffing and puffing does not change that.

    Well, let's take a tour of this wonderful country:

    BBC (Savile, Denning, Souter, Yewtree, etc.)
    NHS (Stoke Mandeville)
    Rotherham MBC
    Rochdale MBC
    Tory Party (see Tim Fortescue for details)
    Liberal Democrats (Cyril Smith)
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/08/Exclusive-Lib-Lab-Paedo-Pact-Alleged-in-Rochdale
    Music schools
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/26/chelthams-teacher-michael-brewer-jailed
    Scouting Association
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/10/scout-association-apologises-for-child-abuse
    Prisons
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/medomsley-borstal-sex-ring-police-4576925
    MI6
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-was-warned-by-top-tory-1647786

    It's only a hard disk crash that prevents me posting more of my extensive collection of links.

    No wonder UKIP scare people; so many people in this country have so much to hide.
    Presumably your hard drive failed as it was overwhelmed by the number of links to incidents of abuse by members of the Catholic Church.

    No amount of diversion can distract from the fact that they lead the field.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Alistair said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    FPT

    Alistair said:

    Foolish TSE, the real villains are not the child abusers or indeed the man who we have documentary proof of encouraging a global cover up of child abuse, or indeed the organisation that then promoted that man to the head role in the org knowing full well he'd organised a cover up.

    Would you be so kind as to provide this "documentary proof"?

    Or keep your bigoted views to yourself?

    Choice is yours.
    I choose evidence

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/24/children.childprotection
    Oooh! From 2005, even worse than TSE.

    I refer you to my earlier answer to TSE.

    I knew you article was a crock of shit as well when I read this phrase:

    The order was made in a confidential letter, obtained by The Observer, which was sent to every Catholic bishop in May 2001.

    That's over 5,000 people.
    Do you think the Pope and his minions were right to close down the ecclesiastical courts to investigation of child abuse? Was it policy to encourage complainants to contact the civil authorities?
    Minions?

    I will give the answer I used to always give:

    If you suffer a crime, go to the police. Not exactly rocket science, is it?

    But after Rotherham, I'm not too sure.
    So did the Pope's minions encourage the victims to go to the police?
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church requires cooperation with the civil authorities over criminal matters.

    Bullshit answer: there is no position of minion in the Catholic Church, therefore you ask the impossible.
    So did the Catholic church functionaries report the accusations to the police?

    Or does co-operation with the civil authorities not extend that far?
    Why didn't the victims?

    They were the witnesses to the offences, after all.
    Did the Catholic authorities encourage them to report to the police or social services? Surely that is the responsibility of any adult who is approached with such accusations.
    Heard of parents in your neck of the woods?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    Alistair said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    Here's a hint. just because group A doeas something bad doesn't mean group C is suddenly beyond criticism. It might suprise you to know that people are capable of thinking both group A and C have done bad things.
    Amazing how only Group C gets criticised by some people, though.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Jeb Bush is the only Republican that could win the predidency. He's probably the best as well.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Ninoinoz said:

    saddened said:


    The Catholic church does a lot of good. Unfortunately it also does a huge amount of harm as well. Your foot stamping and huffing and puffing does not change that.

    Well, let's take a tour of this wonderful country:

    BBC (Savile, Denning, Souter, Yewtree, etc.)
    NHS (Stoke Mandeville)
    Rotherham MBC
    Rochdale MBC
    Tory Party (see Tim Fortescue for details)
    Liberal Democrats (Cyril Smith)
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/08/Exclusive-Lib-Lab-Paedo-Pact-Alleged-in-Rochdale
    Music schools
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/26/chelthams-teacher-michael-brewer-jailed
    Scouting Association
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/10/scout-association-apologises-for-child-abuse
    Prisons
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/medomsley-borstal-sex-ring-police-4576925
    MI6
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-was-warned-by-top-tory-1647786

    It's only a hard disk crash that prevents me posting more of my extensive collection of links.

    No wonder UKIP scare people; so many people in this country have so much to hide.
    You appear to have missed out the extensive Catholic church child abuse scandals again. Why? Don't you believe they happened? Or are you just too humiliated and cowardly to stand up and say it was an abomination and the church should have intervened earlier and harder? All child abuse should be prosecuted to the maximum extent the law allows not covered up. Why does the church invest so much time and treasure in covering for child abusers rather than aiding the authorities to prosecute them?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Alistair said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    FPT

    Alistair said:

    Foolish TSE, the real villains are not the child abusers or indeed the man who we have documentary proof of encouraging a global cover up of child abuse, or indeed the organisation that then promoted that man to the head role in the org knowing full well he'd organised a cover up.

    Would you be so kind as to provide this "documentary proof"?

    Or keep your bigoted views to yourself?

    Choice is yours.
    I choose evidence

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/apr/24/children.childprotection
    Oooh! From 2005, even worse than TSE.

    I refer you to my earlier answer to TSE.

    I knew you article was a crock of shit as well when I read this phrase:

    The order was made in a confidential letter, obtained by The Observer, which was sent to every Catholic bishop in May 2001.

    That's over 5,000 people.
    Do you think the Pope and his minions were right to close down the ecclesiastical courts to investigation of child abuse? Was it policy to encourage complainants to contact the civil authorities?
    Minions?

    I will give the answer I used to always give:

    If you suffer a crime, go to the police. Not exactly rocket science, is it?

    But after Rotherham, I'm not too sure.
    So did the Pope's minions encourage the victims to go to the police?
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church requires cooperation with the civil authorities over criminal matters.

    Bullshit answer: there is no position of minion in the Catholic Church, therefore you ask the impossible.
    So did the Catholic church functionaries report the accusations to the police?

    Or does co-operation with the civil authorities not extend that far?
    Why didn't the victims?

    They were the witnesses to the offences, after all.
    Did the Catholic authorities encourage them to report to the police or social services? Surely that is the responsibility of any adult who is approached with such accusations.
    Heard of parents in your neck of the woods?
    Heard of Catholic orphanages in yours?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    We had that excuse used earlier.. can it be so? I thought that, if a poll was not favourable, it wouldn't be published, but how could that work with daily/weekly/monthly ie regular polls?

    Survation and COMRES poll for the Daily Mirror, and their polls are UKIP friendly/The Mirror is probably the least friendly to UKIP

    ICM is considered the Gold Standard by many Tories and they poll for The Guardian
    I'm certainly not making excuses, I'm simply saying as I find. Maybe I'm wrong.
    Sorry I didn't mean to imply you were making excuses, just that somebody else did.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    isam said:

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    We had that excuse used earlier.. can it be so? I thought that, if a poll was not favourable, it wouldn't be published, but how could that work with daily/weekly/monthly ie regular polls?

    Survation and COMRES poll for the Daily Mirror, and their polls are UKIP friendly/The Mirror is probably the least friendly to UKIP

    ICM is considered the Gold Standard by many Tories and they poll for The Guardian
    I'm certainly not making excuses, I'm simply saying as I find. Maybe I'm wrong.
    Well first there is no study. As for correlation... I am sure there is correlation between some polls and the people who fund them. That is to the extent that the questions asked can skew things and the methodology as well. I am suspicious of polls. Do they get it right? Well some do and some are more serious about it. But if I fire a shotgun, some of the pellets will hit the target.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.

    We know that many abused children grow up themselves to be abusers. I do wonder whether Saville was abused himself in childhood.
    What, by dead people?
    Clearly not!

    But his perverted sexual desires seemed to start early in his life. It is possible that Saville's evil tendencies sprang out fully formed in adult life, but there has to be a significant possibility that he was abused himself and that his maladaptive sexual behaviour grew from that.

    As the Jesuits say "give me the child until seven and I will give you the man for life"

    If we want to understand paedophiles better (so as to be able to stop the cycle of abuse in the next generation) then we have to look for answers in their childhood.

    The same is likely to be true of the abuser priests in the Catholic Church. What were their childhood experiences? Did they enter the church specifically to gain access to abusing possibilities? Or was there a struggle in their souls? If there was some internal anguish, how did the church respond?
  • Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.

    We know that many abused children grow up themselves to be abusers. I do wonder whether Saville was abused himself in childhood.
    What, by dead people?
    Clearly not!

    But his perverted sexual desires seemed to start early in his life. It is possible that Saville's evil tendencies sprang out fully formed in adult life, but there has to be a significant possibility that he was abused himself and that his maladaptive sexual behaviour grew from that.

    As the Jesuits say "give me the child until seven and I will give you the man for life"

    If we want to understand paedophiles better (so as to be able to stop the cycle of abuse in the next generation) then we have to look for answers in their childhood.

    The same is likely to be true of the abuser priests in the Catholic Church. What were their childhood experiences? Did they enter the church specifically to gain access to abusing possibilities? Or was there a struggle in their souls? If there was some internal anguish, how did the church respond?
    I agree with all of that.

    Actually I used to be into necrophilia until some rotten c*** split on me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Moses_ said:

    Just watched PMQ's

    .......... I mean even the left leaning people here must have seen Ed was absolutely drilled into the ground. He just was ......he really was. FFS Even BenM must have seen that ....?

    Please... Pretty Please with icing on the top and then those little glittery stars shit my duaghter always insisted in spraying on our remnants of the cakes we had tried to make when they came out of the oven burnt............ you have to realise


    Eds a dud and not only that .....a very dangerous dud...

    But barely a word on here about PMQs, despite after all the petty bickering we've seen in the past ..... and all the more surprising considering we're only four and a half months from a General Election.
    Ed not being regarded as great, or even decent, by many is hardly noteworthy at this point. It's just a question of whether he can win in spite of that.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.
    Well, I've never been Roman Catholic clergy, but I seem to be held responsible for their crimes Worldwide.

    The truth is child abuse is a social problem, but the template was set by the BBC and TSE's friends that it is somehow a 'Catholic' problem.

    Considering the explosion of child abuse scandals in secular organisation recently, it turns out, incredibly, that the RCC is one of better organisations at handling the consequences, certainly in this country.

    I never would have believed I could have written the previous sentence only a few short years ago.
  • A Bush or Clinton ran for Pres or VP in every US Presidential race between 1980 and 2008.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    A Bush or Clinton ran for Pres or VP in every US Presidential race between 1980 and 2008.

    Isn't another George Bush currently in minor office in Texas? Presumably there's scope for many more such involvements in the future. Yay.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014

    Moses_ said:

    Just watched PMQ's

    .......... I mean even the left leaning people here must have seen Ed was absolutely drilled into the ground. He just was ......he really was. FFS Even BenM must have seen that ....?

    Please... Pretty Please with icing on the top and then those little glittery stars shit my duaghter always insisted in spraying on our remnants of the cakes we had tried to make when they came out of the oven burnt............ you have to realise


    Eds a dud and not only that .....a very dangerous dud...

    But barely a word on here about PMQs, despite after all the petty bickering we've seen in the past ..... and all the more surprising considering we're only four and a half months from a General Election.

    Yes indeed the silence is rather noted and perhaps many missed the " Kinnock moment" of today's PMQS ..

    No ...still not sure?

    It was the point and under incoming Miliaband could not defend any part of his or Labours record and then stated and I quote...

    " in 5 months time he will be asking the questions and He will be answering them "

    Oh really? You think? You reckon ....Ha!



    Well awrigggghhtt!! * fist clench in air*
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    Ninoinoz said:



    Ninoinoz said:

    Tell me Dr. foxinsoxuk, how are all those investigations into child abuse in the NHS coming along.

    Also, how did Jimmy Savile get away with so many sexual assaults at Stoke Mandeville without it becoming public?

    Another bigot getting his comeuppance on PB.

    There have been several convictions recently of NHS personnel, in all cases the NHS actively gathered evidence for the police.

    I do not work at Stoke Mandeville so have no idea what went on there with the famous Jimmy Saville.
    Well, I've never been Roman Catholic clergy, but I seem to be held responsible for their crimes Worldwide.

    The truth is child abuse is a social problem, but the template was set by the BBC and TSE's friends that it is somehow a 'Catholic' problem.

    Considering the explosion of child abuse scandals in secular organisation recently, it turns out, incredibly, that the RCC is one of better organisations at handling the consequences, certainly in this country.

    I never would have believed I could have written the previous sentence only a few short years ago.
    You appear to be unable to say that the Catholic church has a horrific record of child abuse. We all accept that other organisations do as well, but it seems that you are physically incapable of uttering the words that the church has been responsible for child abuse. Why can't you say it?
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 665
    edited December 2014
    Ninoinoz - Your repeated abusive language has set off the spam trap.

    And you've been warned about not to talk about child abuse on PB.

    We might consider freeing you in the morning.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Ninoinoz said:

    saddened said:


    The Catholic church does a lot of good. Unfortunately it also does a huge amount of harm as well. Your foot stamping and huffing and puffing does not change that.

    Well, let's take a tour of this wonderful country:

    BBC (Savile, Denning, Souter, Yewtree, etc.)
    NHS (Stoke Mandeville)
    Rotherham MBC
    Rochdale MBC
    Tory Party (see Tim Fortescue for details)
    Liberal Democrats (Cyril Smith)
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/08/Exclusive-Lib-Lab-Paedo-Pact-Alleged-in-Rochdale
    Music schools
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/26/chelthams-teacher-michael-brewer-jailed
    Scouting Association
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/10/scout-association-apologises-for-child-abuse
    Prisons
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/medomsley-borstal-sex-ring-police-4576925
    MI6
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-was-warned-by-top-tory-1647786

    It's only a hard disk crash that prevents me posting more of my extensive collection of links.

    No wonder UKIP scare people; so many people in this country have so much to hide.
    Presumably your hard drive failed as it was overwhelmed by the number of links to incidents of abuse by members of the Catholic Church.

    No amount of diversion can distract from the fact that they lead the field.
    My take on the sex abuse stuff is that it's basically revealed a pretty universal flaw in human psychology. We see in others what we want to see and are blind to the stuff that's inconvenient.
  • Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited December 2014

    Ninoinoz - Your repeated abusive language has set off the spam trap.

    And you've been warned about not to talk about child abuse on PB.

    We might consider freeing you in the morning.


    Sometimes you really do wish there was an "on demand function" for the late arrivals



  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    kle4 Jeb's telegenic, half-Hispanic son George P was elected Texas Land Commissioner in November, in the end I don't think Jeb will actually run if Hillary is Democratic nominee where the odds are he will lose, he is just tapping donors and rebranding the Bush brand in his, rather than his brothers', image ready for his son to run in, say, 2024

    http://georgepfortexas.org/about/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    edited December 2014
    Oblitus Trump has dropped bug hints he will be the Perot of 2016 if it is Bush v Clinton
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    Jonathan An Obama beats a Clinton
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited December 2014

    YouGov is the Gold Standard.

    Now off to watch the final ever Newsroom.

    Six polls so far this week - simple average = 2.2% Lab lead. Awaiting YG tables to plug into ELBOW - currently 2.0% Lab lead without tonight's YG.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    An interesting stat on the news this morning - a US citizen 38 or younger has only had 1 election with neither a Clinton or a Bush somewhere on the ticket.
  • Tim_B said:

    An interesting stat on the news this morning - a US citizen 38 or younger has only had 1 election with neither a Clinton or a Bush somewhere on the ticket.

    2012!
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    MikeK said:

    Just when you thought Winston McKenzie couldn't get any funnier.

    As I said, UKIP and Farage appear to be a cult (sic)

    Nigel Farage is like Jesus Christ and we are his followers, spokesman says

    Winston McKenzie compares Ukip leader to Son of God

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11299006/Nigel-Farage-is-like-Jesus-Christ-and-we-are-his-followers-spokesman-says.html

    You and the Telegraph, both, are really desperate to damage UKIP,come what may. Can't even see a tongue in cheek statement for what it is.
    The way he carries on is pathetic, his desperation becomes more apparent every passing day.
    Hilarious. You are I mean. He mentions Farage 'who can do no wrong' and Jesus in the same breath.
    But Winston is truly right, 'everywhere he goes he gets away with it.'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    Fox 2016 general

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 49% {52%} [51%] (51%)
    •Jeb Bush (R) 42% {39%} [42%] (38%)

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 51% {52%} [51%]
    •Rand Paul (R) 40% {41%} [42%]

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 52% {50%} [50%] (49%)
    •Chris Christie (R) 40% {40%} [42%] (38%)

    •Hillary Clinton (D) 53% {54%}
    •John Kasich (R) 37% {35%}
    http://www.argojournal.com/2014/12/poll-watch-fox-news-2016-presidential.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,152
    edited December 2014

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    Perhaps my memory fails me but I'm pretty sure 3-4 years ago that the constant & substantial Yougov leads for Labour were considered by* PB Tories to be down to a surreptitious finger on the scale by Kellner (the loonier ones put it down to his wife, Baroness Ashton).

    O tempora o mores.

    *some


  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I'm not so sure about Hillary.

    The Clinton brand is old - not that Bush is exactly fresh - but she is inextricably linked with Obama as she was his SOS for 4 years. She even tried to bring in health care reform as first lady. There are many many videos of her saying how proud she was to be a member of the Obama administration.

    She does have a 50% lead among Democrats however.
  • FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    FPT

    Alistair said:

    Foolish TSE, the real villains are not the child abusers or indeed the man who we have documentary proof of encouraging a global cover up of child abuse, or indeed the organisation that then promoted that man to the head role in the org knowing full well he'd organised a cover up.

    Would you be so kind as to provide this "documentary proof"?

    Or keep your bigoted views to yourself?

    Choice is yours.
    In 2001, while he was a cardinal, he issued a secret Vatican edict to Catholic bishops all over the world, instructing them to put the Church's interests ahead of child safety.

    The document recommended that rather than reporting sexual abuse to the relevant legal authorities, bishops should encourage the victim, witnesses and perpetrator not to talk about it. And, to keep victims quiet, it threatened that if they repeat the allegations they would be excommunicated.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/pope-led-coverup-of-child-abuse-by-priests-7220621.html
    I wondered why this "smoking gun" hadn't been thrust in my face for the last 5 years. Your link is from 2006!

    That's because it's a crock of shit.

    There is nothing in Crimen Sollicitationis that prevents an accuser going to the civil authorities. It only applies in Ecclesiastical proceedings.

    Your statements are outright lies.
    Crock of shit, in your opinion.

    And given your rants about Maria Miller's 2012 conference speech being all about gay marriage, when in fact in contained one reference, you're the expect on statements that are outright lies.
    I know you posted her speech before, but would you post the references to child rape at the BBC in that speech. Remember, Jimmy Savile had just been exposed.

    I think you'll find none, but let's see.

    As we're on the subject, how the investigation into child rape in the Tory Party coming along? The child rapes that Tory Whip Tim Fortescue admitted to covering up and were brought to David Cameron's attention in the HoC.

    Your attempts to smear UKIP have backfired badly on you tonight.
    No, as I told you at the time, she couldn't comment on the BBC because it was part on an ongoing criminal investigation.

    Always wrong Nino.

    Visit this website, it will help you with your issues

    http://tinyurl.com/3o2yb7r
    Fascinating that in its 2008 obituary of Fortiscue the Guardian made no mention of it.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Ninoinoz - Your repeated abusive language has set off the spam trap.

    And you've been warned about not to talk about child abuse on PB.

    We might consider freeing you in the morning.

    Poor Nino.

    The shame of being banned from PB.

    Still, it could be worse. At least you're not as bad as this depraved perv;

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/socalled-christian-has-erection,35340/
  • well, it's a rum do in America today...

    who'd a thought the movie business would cave in to trrrrrists
  • I guess maybe Sony is strictly Japanese tho
  • OK wiki says, not very Japanese
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567

    Have we ever had a thread on PB.com to consider whether polls funded by left-leaning organisations (Guardian, Indy, Mirror, Unions, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause and whether polls funded by right-leaning organisations (Sun, Times, Telegraph, Lord Ashcroft, etc) produce results more favourable to their cause.
    It certainly seems that way to me, but perhaps I'm imagining it.

    I think you are. Specifically, ICM's assumptions are usually more helpful to the LibDems in particular (because they assume half the numerous uncertain LDs will return to Mother in the end) and slightly unhelpful to Labour (as Labour is picking up people who gave up on us last time, and ICM thinks they might not vote).

    More generally, political polls for the general public are just a small part of the pollsters' business - they'd be bonkers to risk their reputation for it. It would, I suppose, be possible for a paper to pick a pollster with helpful assumptions, e.g. the Express might pick Survation because their assumptions tend to lead to a higher UKIP vote. But I really doubt if they're that subtle.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 Jeb's telegenic, half-Hispanic son George P was elected Texas Land Commissioner in November, in the end I don't think Jeb will actually run if Hillary is Democratic nominee where the odds are he will lose, he is just tapping donors and rebranding the Bush brand in his, rather than his brothers', image ready for his son to run in, say, 2024

    http://georgepfortexas.org/about/

    Man, laying the ground work in America sure can take some time and effort I guess. Cheers for the info.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    well, it's a rum do in America today...

    who'd a thought the movie business would cave in to trrrrrists

    It's what the US does - the classic example is what happened with 'The Satanic Verses'.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    kle4 Indeed, the most powerful role on earth does not come cheap and has a long audition
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
  • Tim_B said:

    well, it's a rum do in America today...

    who'd a thought the movie business would cave in to trrrrrists

    It's what the US does - the classic example is what happened with 'The Satanic Verses'.
    what happened with Satanic verses in the US?

    I hadn't realised that this all happened, too

    "With police protection, Rushdie escaped direct physical harm, but others associated with his book have suffered violent attacks. Hitoshi Igarashi, his Japanese translator, was stabbed to death on 11 July 1991. Ettore Capriolo, the Italian translator, was seriously injured in a stabbing in Milan on 3 July 1991.[15] William Nygaard, the publisher in Norway, was shot three times in an attempted assassination in Oslo in October 1993, but survived. Aziz Nesin, the Turkish translator, was the intended target in the events that led to the Sivas massacre on 2 July 1993 in Sivas, Turkey, which resulted in the deaths of 37 people.[16]"

    (from Wikipedia)
  • (I've never read it. I tried "Midnight's Children" a couple of times and found it turgid and gave up both times)
  • Ah, OK figured it out

    "In the United States, it was unavailable in about one-third of bookstores. In many others that carried the book, it was kept under the counter.[29]"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited December 2014

    Ah, OK figured it out

    "In the United States, it was unavailable in about one-third of bookstores. In many others that carried the book, it was kept under the counter.[29]"

    In India (87% non-Muslim!) it was banned from being imported into the country, though possession is not illegal.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    The details are a bit hazy at this point.

    As soon as the trouble started, and the fatwa was issued, the US publisher dropped the book like a hot potato, and in breach of contract.

    It was eventually published by an odd setup called 'The Consortium".
  • Pong said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    saddened said:


    The Catholic church does a lot of good. Unfortunately it also does a huge amount of harm as well. Your foot stamping and huffing and puffing does not change that.

    Well, let's take a tour of this wonderful country:

    BBC (Savile, Denning, Souter, Yewtree, etc.)
    NHS (Stoke Mandeville)
    Rotherham MBC
    Rochdale MBC
    Tory Party (see Tim Fortescue for details)
    Liberal Democrats (Cyril Smith)
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/08/Exclusive-Lib-Lab-Paedo-Pact-Alleged-in-Rochdale
    Music schools
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/mar/26/chelthams-teacher-michael-brewer-jailed
    Scouting Association
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/10/scout-association-apologises-for-child-abuse
    Prisons
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/medomsley-borstal-sex-ring-police-4576925
    MI6
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/home-office-was-warned-by-top-tory-1647786

    It's only a hard disk crash that prevents me posting more of my extensive collection of links.

    No wonder UKIP scare people; so many people in this country have so much to hide.
    Presumably your hard drive failed as it was overwhelmed by the number of links to incidents of abuse by members of the Catholic Church.

    No amount of diversion can distract from the fact that they lead the field.
    My take on the sex abuse stuff is that it's basically revealed a pretty universal flaw in human psychology. We see in others what we want to see and are blind to the stuff that's inconvenient.
    Slightly more optimistically, the problem seems to be hierarchical organisations that are strong enough for the consensus to bully people into staying quiet: The BBC, the Catholic church, tight-knit ethnic communities that respect their elders. That makes the problem solvable: Destroy communities and institutions.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2014
    kle4 said:

    A Bush or Clinton ran for Pres or VP in every US Presidential race between 1980 and 2008.

    Isn't another George Bush currently in minor office in Texas? Presumably there's scope for many more such involvements in the future. Yay.
    George P (Jeb's boy) is Land Commissioner of Texas - and most definitely not a minor post, but the traditional launch pad for Governor...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    TimB I will certainly be buying it on DVD now, it could be a collectors' item, and to stand up for free speech and Kim Jong Fat
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited December 2014
    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    Download a torrent, otherwise the terrorists have won.
  • According to Wikipedia:

    Although British bookseller W.H. Smith sold "a mere hundred copies a week of the book in mid-January 1989", it "flew off the shelves" following the fatwa. In America it sold an "unprecedented" five times more copies than the number two book, Star by Danielle Steel, selling more than 750,000 copies of the book by May 1989. B. Dalton, a bookstore chain that decided not to stock the book for security reasons, changed its mind when it found the book "was selling so fast that even as we tried to stop it, it was flying off the shelves".[72][73] Rushdie earned about $2 million within the first year of the book's publication,[74] and the book is Viking's all-time best seller.[75]
  • HYUFD said:

    Oblitus Trump has dropped bug hints he will be the Perot of 2016 if it is Bush v Clinton

    That could be fun.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
    The Movie They Didn't Want You To See...
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Hopefully will have more time to comment in the next few days as the past fortnight has been utterly hectic!

    1992 US election parallel with Bush Clinton interesting. But I think the even greater parallel will be a wildcard 3rd party candidate (Donald Trump?) but doing even better than Ross Perot did back in 1992. It will be held a year into the econmy having turned down if Martin Armstrong's great 2015.75 (1st October next year) turn date is correct for a great Sovereign Bond crisis.

    As for Russia and the Oil price, its the first big market that has yielded to the 'D' word that I've mentioned so often in the past - Deflation. Looks like we've had an intermediate high in stocks, but I think February / March next year will provide a good intermediate buying opportunity next year. Finally, there are tremors and the ball is rolling with a higher US Dollar as I've been saying for a long time (although it needs to correct some of its recent strength over the next few months) to turn the US and wider world economy down at the end of next year. As always, its going to be one hell of a ride. Fasten the seatbelts tight!

    Good night all.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
    The Movie They Didn't Want You To See...
    trailer -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkJA1rb8Nxo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited December 2014
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    A Bush or Clinton ran for Pres or VP in every US Presidential race between 1980 and 2008.

    Isn't another George Bush currently in minor office in Texas? Presumably there's scope for many more such involvements in the future. Yay.
    George P (Jeb's boy) is Land Commissioner of Texas - and most definitely not a minor post, but the traditional launch pad for Governor...
    By minor I had meant below Governor level and not a Congressman or Senator, which admittedly is a pretty wide ranging influence level available.

    On 'The Interview', it only looked of middling quality to be honest, but like others I feel it is probably worth checking out now at least. That they had not even bothered with the flimsy cover of using a different name for Un and the country was faintly amusing I'll grant.

    Night all.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    Oblitus Only question is there a big enough room to accommodate the egos of The Donald, Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush for the debates?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    Charles Indeed, he could then use the governorship as a Launchpad for the presidency

    Charles Could end up one of the biggest PR coups in history
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567

    HYUFD said:

    Oblitus Trump has dropped bug hints he will be the Perot of 2016 if it is Bush v Clinton

    That could be fun.
    Bug hints, eh? Call for the Starship Troopers!
  • In the FA Cup replay Worcester City lose to Scunthorpe 14- 13 on penalties after extra time score of 1 -1
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2014
    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
    The Movie They Didn't Want You To See...
    trailer -

    [snip]
    The funny thing is that if they had ignored it, the film would have sunk without trace
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    NickP Spelling mistake, not yet been hacked by N Korea I hope!
  • TSE I read your heading and thought you meant that David Cameron will make a fool of the pollsters by thumping Labour and winning an overall majority.

    That was my initial reaction too (not OM, but stay in power) - but then again, I was old enough to vote in 1992 and remembered the previous Labour governments of the 1970s......I even had pink champagne on ice to toast the brave new Socialist dawn....

    Here's the Labour Manifesto from 1992:

    http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/man/lab92.htm
  • Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
    The Movie They Didn't Want You To See...
    trailer -

    [snip]
    The funny thing is that if they had ignored it, the film would have sunk without trace
    That is the funny thing. Being portrayed as kitschy rather than brutal and horrifying ought to be to their advantage.

    I guess the whole Dennis Rodman thing happened while this movie was in production, which must have been weird for the writers
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    Charles said:

    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimB/dugarbandier Ridiculous, can't they release it on youtube instead?

    It'll be On Demand, and they'll rush the dvd release and it will make a fortune.
    The Movie They Didn't Want You To See...
    trailer -

    [snip]
    The funny thing is that if they had ignored it, the film would have sunk without trace
    That is the funny thing. Being portrayed as kitschy rather than brutal and horrifying ought to be to their advantage.

    I guess the whole Dennis Rodman thing happened while this movie was in production, which must have been weird for the writers
    But, being brutal and horrifying, they have a visceral reaction to being mocked
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited December 2014
    Can anyone offer any advice to someone who's recently got slightly addicted to online betting with Betfair Exchange? The person in question is yours truly btw.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited December 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Can anyone offer any advice to someone who's recently got slightly addicted to online betting with Betfair Exchange? The person in question is yours truly btw.

    If you are married/have a partner get them to set up opendns with a password that you don't know. You can then block access to betting websites.

    https://www.opendns.com/
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Charles said:

    AndyJS said:

    Can anyone offer any advice to someone who's recently got slightly addicted to online betting with Betfair Exchange? The person in question is yours truly btw.

    If you are married/have a partner get them to set up opendns with a password that you don't know. You can then block access to betting websites.

    https://www.opendns.com/
    Thanks for the advice.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    AndyJS said:

    Can anyone offer any advice to someone who's recently got slightly addicted to online betting with Betfair Exchange? The person in question is yours truly btw.

    You could also ask Betfair to put limits on the amount you can spend, they should be able to help you out.
This discussion has been closed.