Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » SNP councillors give their response to the Smith report by

2»

Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    Indigo said:

    Looks like it, its 11am for me to be fair.

    Far east? I'm about to settle in to a long night of work before a meeting tomorrow!
  • FPT, apologies for having to repost it (new thread started just as I posted):

    rcs1000 said:


    My more serious answer is that I believe very strongly in limiting the powers of the state... I realise that not many share my views: but I think the real problem is that we have come to see the government as the solutions to our problems, when so often it is the cause of them...

    On the topic of near-absolute power being given to our governments, paradoxically I wonder if that's the one saving grace of our system, from a libertarian perspective. They can do just about anything. But the next parliament can also do that. So in practice, as long as there is more than one strong party, the political games should mean they can keep cancelling each other out. Small majorities either way (or two party coalitions) should keep things nicely paralysed due to infighting and let individuals slide through the middle without too much extra interference. There's a cost to continually adapting to the change of course, but it rather stops them doing anything too crazy & extreme given that the electoral centre of gravity holds politicians in low enough esteem to not let them get away with too much.
    You're forgetting that policy in many areas is now set at an EU level rather than a UK level, so our general elections do not produce a change in policy.

    An EU with a libertarian UK government, or no UK, would be substantially less authoritarian than an EU with the current UK in it.
  • HYUFD said:

    ChokinCase The ceiling of support for a party which cuts spending and taxes for the rich, legalises gay marriage and is pro immigration and civil liberties is about 10-15%, as Clegg's LDs are now discovering!

    ChokinVase, not Case. It happened to be what I glanced at when thinking up a username. Mind you, I frequently feel like choking when I read some of the hare-brained schemes politicians come up with so maybe case is appropriate after all.

    I have no sympathy for the LDs at all. They are reaping the electoral consequences of spending 20 years pretending to be a totally different party in Conservative vs Labour constituencies. A lot of voters projected their own fantasies onto them and/or used them as a protest vehicle. Now they've had to do the right thing, grow up and make decisions in government, it's not surprising that a lot of their national support vanished. In fact I'm surprised at how much is left. They'll still be hard to unseat in a lot of constituencies because they're a known quantity there, so the "spoiled fantasy" isn't so much of a factor. They'll lose about 30% of seats, but I doubt much more.

    Sadly, they have never honestly & passionately sold themselves as a libertarian party, with too many economically interventionist policies in the past, and now their brand is far too damaged by the dissonance to be rebuilt to its former levels for at least 10 years.

    But yes, even a libertarian agenda would be a minority interest, maybe about 20%. But I think it would cut right across a lot of traditional demongraphic boundaries, affecting the other parties disproportionately in many marginals. All just a pipe dream, of course...
    I doubt the UK has 20% libertarian. More like 5% or 10%. Britain's a bit weird in that in the abstract it has this self-image of a bold, open, free market economy, but in practice everything's an outrage or a danger to children or a blot on the landscape or a potential deathtrap that the government has to do something about.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited December 2014

    HYUFD said:

    ChokinCase The ceiling of support for a party which cuts spending and taxes for the rich, legalises gay marriage and is pro immigration and civil liberties is about 10-15%, as Clegg's LDs are now discovering!

    ChokinVase, not Case. It happened to be what I glanced at when thinking up a username. Mind you, I frequently feel like choking when I read some of the hare-brained schemes politicians come up with so maybe case is appropriate after all.

    I have no sympathy for the LDs at all. They are reaping the electoral consequences of spending 20 years pretending to be a totally different party in Conservative vs Labour constituencies. A lot of voters projected their own fantasies onto them and/or used them as a protest vehicle. Now they've had to do the right thing, grow up and make decisions in government, it's not surprising that a lot of their national support vanished. In fact I'm surprised at how much is left. They'll still be hard to unseat in a lot of constituencies because they're a known quantity there, so the "spoiled fantasy" isn't so much of a factor. They'll lose about 30% of seats, but I doubt much more.

    Sadly, they have never honestly & passionately sold themselves as a libertarian party, with too many economically interventionist policies in the past, and now their brand is far too damaged by the dissonance to be rebuilt to its former levels for at least 10 years.

    But yes, even a libertarian agenda would be a minority interest, maybe about 20%. But I think it would cut right across a lot of traditional demongraphic boundaries, affecting the other parties disproportionately in many marginals. All just a pipe dream, of course...
    I doubt the UK has 20% libertarian. More like 5% or 10%. Britain's a bit weird in that in the abstract it has this self-image of a bold, open, free market economy, but in practice everything's an outrage or a danger to children or a blot on the landscape or a potential deathtrap that the government has to do something about.
    I might be wrong but my feeling is that is a relatively recent development driven by the mass media love of scare headlines, and politicians infected with "got-to-do-something-itis". I grew up in forty-odd years ago in a small West Sussex city, which must be about as middle class and parochial small town as you can get, and yet I spent most of my childhood out of the house riding bikes and climbing trees, and aside from the standard admonishment about not getting into cars with strangers my parents were not fussed about how I spent my free time, and neither were those of my friends. I think its fear that causes the rise of authoritarianism, I watched "V for Vendetta" a couple of nights ago and it has a certain ring of truth about it.
  • SNP book-burners. Predictable.
  • KenKen Posts: 24
    I voted Yes in September, but I am no fan of the SNP. I will probably grit my teeth and vote for them in GE15, just to try and keep Labour to the left, but in the SGE16 I will probably vote Labour for the constituency and SSP for the list.

    My take on this stunt is that it would have passed over had Nicola Sturgeon not panicked and suspended the four councillors involved. Now there is a large fissure developing between the new members who tend to come from the left, and the old, Presbyterian-authoritarians who make up the bulk of the membership before the post-referendum surge.

    Historically the SNP was very top heavy with a membership that did as it was told. That is clearly breaking down thanks to the new intake and I suspect that this trivial matter over the photo op is the start of a long road that will lead to much infighting.

    I also suspect that the SNP will not win quite as many Labour seats as its more enthusiastic supporters think. The Labour strongholds in the West are so solid that most will stand up to the onslaught. That said, the SNP looks good for a few of the Labour marginals, and can be expected to demolish the Lib-Dems by taking almost all their 11 seats. Maybe Charlie Kennedy will hang on until he finishes drinking himself to death, but that's about it.
This discussion has been closed.