A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[EDIT: I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response. I'm increasingly of the opinion that BJO is a quite a successful troll.]
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Very impressive entry to the competition and interesting just how many posters outperformed the polls.
Many more names there than I recognised. Would be nice to see more lurkers posting, if only occasionally.
Thanks Mark for your efforts. You got the support you deserved.
Agreed. We clearly have lots of astute lurkers here.
I predicted (in the comments thread, not the competition) Tory 34.34% and UKIP 43.43% - a 9.09% lead, so take some consolation from the fact I'd have come in the top 60 or so!
Anybody who got within 5% of the right answer can feel some pride in their effort. (That includes me, but only just!)
Double Carpet runs an Election Game competition with a small elite field of professional pundits and political anoraks. All seventeen entries overestimated the size of UKIPs win, most by a good deal more than me. The wisdom of the PB crowd was much wiser in this case.
Nice to meet up at the drinks bash. Was it your first visit to DD's? I have the feeling we have met before but those evenings are often a hazy blur afterwards.
Nice to meet you too. It was my first visit to DD, but we hadn't met before.
I had met OGH before, who has an astonishing memory and not only remembered meeting me before, but exactly where, when and my name, even though it was over 5 years ago!
A name like Casino is hard to forget
He remembered better than I did - I got both the year and the location wrong.
Was a pleasure to meet you btw
Same goes for everyone else, just sad that I didn't get a chance to talk to everyone !
I had a "mysterious" headache the next morning though !
Very impressive entry to the competition and interesting just how many posters outperformed the polls.
Many more names there than I recognised. Would be nice to see more lurkers posting, if only occasionally.
Thanks Mark for your efforts. You got the support you deserved.
Agreed. We clearly have lots of astute lurkers here.
I predicted (in the comments thread, not the competition) Tory 34.34% and UKIP 43.43% - a 9.09% lead, so take some consolation from the fact I'd have come in the top 60 or so!
Nice to meet up at the drinks bash. Was it your first visit to DD's? I have the feeling we have met before but those evenings are often a hazy blur afterwards.
Nice to meet you too. It was my first visit to DD, but we hadn't met before.
I had met OGH before, who has an astonishing memory and not only remembered meeting me before, but exactly where, when and my name, even though it was over 5 years ago!
A name like Casino is hard to forget
He remembered better than I did - I got both the year and the location wrong.
And the best thing about Friday, you got to meet me and hear one of my best chat up lines.
Absolutely. I haven't been brave enough to use it on my wife yet though.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
As ever you forget the impact of the very big increases in the personal allowance since then. And the fact that many private sector workers have had pay cuts. You also forget the millions of new jobs created at the most difficult time when dealing with the enormous debt left by the last Labour govt.
Mr. Owls, the private sector is also not seeing pay rises. The difference is that NHS staff have guaranteed jobs and pensions, and those pensions are funded by the private sector workers also have to try and fund their own pensions.
NHS staff do great work. That doesn't mean money we don't have should be flung their way whenever they decide they should be paid more.
[As a related aside, we really should be doing more to tackle the deficit].
The ratio of pensions & benefits in the public sector should be benchmarked
It was, and the pay then downgraded to allow for pensions and benefits.
Not sure what you mean there. I have a public sector pension (since 2009) it is way better than anything achievable in the private sector. The recent changes are less good but still much better than in the private sector.
This was in 1993, admittedly, when I looked into getting a job in the civil service. The salary was set by a pay review board which looked at comparable private sector jobs and then deducted a proportion to allow for the public sector pension. At that time, the civil service pension did not have a contributory element (other than a small element for surviving spouse pension), and the deduction was to give the effect as of paying a final salary scheme in a private sector company, or indeed in some public sector schemes,
As far as I can recall, that the link with private sector pay was broken to suit the government of the day who then imposed a contributory element to the pension scheme. So, in effect, the civil servants were then paying something approaching twice over for their pension.
Funny you mention Pay Review Boards.
The nhs one recomended a 1% increase for all NHS staff.
Scotland and Wales have implemented it.
In England vacancy and Agency spend is bankrupting the English NHS at the same time as standards fall.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[edit, I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response]
So - genuine question - with the increase in personal allowance how much better off are such nurses?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[edit, I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response]
So - genuine question - with the increase in personal allowance how much better off are such nurses?
Personal allowance has gone up ~3,500, so 20% of that is an extra £700.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[edit, I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response]
So - genuine question - with the increase in personal allowance how much better off are such nurses?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[edit, I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response]
So - genuine question - with the increase in personal allowance how much better off are such nurses?
Personal allowance has gone up ~3,500, so 20% of that is an extra £700.
So about 3% on take-home for the example given by BJO. Still a falling salary in real-terms since 2010, but nowhere near as bad as some would have you believe.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
The same person with 5 years experience in 2010 will have 10 years experience in 2015.
Will this not qualify them for an increase up the pay scale in addition to the annual salary uplift?
Progress through the pay scale benefits a number of private and public sector workers although such increases were mostly replaced by performance assessment increases (rather than increases for service years) in the private sector.
The government has been working towards converting service years increases through the scale into performance increases for teachers and others. Not sure how far this process has got. Anyone know?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[EDIT: I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response. I'm increasingly of the opinion that BJO is a quite a successful troll.]
NHS - One of the key elements has to be to reduce demand somehow. With an ageing population and system clearly struggling at the moment the crisis is here.
Socrates notes that Governments have passed the pension timebomb down to the next one for years...but here we are. The bomb is exploding - it will take a decade or two, but there we go.
So how can we reduce demand to stop the over-exhaustion of services? Constant re-orgs have surely driven out some costs, but like many corporates too, this only ever does so much.
Clearly reality will hit that we HAVE to charge for minor visits and injuries and keep the most crucial bits of the NHS - major injuries, cancers, disabilities etc free for all.
Here I am, a capitalist, arguing for another tax...I can't see any other way though. Whilst totally free at the point of use, demand is going up exponentially for the NHS. That part has to be curbed as supply is limited by the public finances
What will break first the NHS or the credit markets?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
Surely the mahoosive hikes in the personal allowance has benefitted them a great deal. It was designed to help exactly the sort of person you refer to.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[EDIT: I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response. I'm increasingly of the opinion that BJO is a quite a successful troll.]
My "rather privileged view of the world" is the British citizenship is an honour and a privilege, and that all people who have that status should have the same rights. However, with those rights come duties and obligations.
I am comfortable with the idea of people having a safe harbour so that they do not need to undertake positive actions which are against their belief system. But, fundamentally, if you want to be part of our society you need to acknowledge the supremacy of the secular law in the UK - and that it applies equally to all citizens. You can't have a situation whereby you say "I am a Catholic/Muslim/Pastafarian/whatever: this law does not apply to me" - if you want to take advantage of the safe harbour then you need to provide people with an alternative way to exercise their rights under the law.
* steps back and takes tissue from pocket, ready to wipe spittle from face *
Where does this leave you with being forced to make gay wedding cakes and the like?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
The same person with 5 years experience in 2010 will have 10 years experience in 2015.
Will this not qualify them for an increase up the pay scale in addition to the annual salary uplift?
Progress through the pay scale benefits a number of private and public sector workers although such increases were mostly replaced by performance assessment increases (rather than increases for service years) in the private sector.
The government has been working towards converting service years increases through the scale into performance increases for teachers and others. Not sure how far this process has got. Anyone know?
For some you are correct. Although when you say in addition to the annual salary uplift there havent been any in the last 4 years in the NHS
Some pay spines only have 5 points so those will not.
Also at most FTs incremental progression is dependent on meeting objectives now, this used to be relatively easy, not so now though.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
Indeed, nice to meet and chat. I missed TSE's chat up lines. I don't know whether to feel ignored or lucky!!
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
Indeed, nice to meet and chat. I missed TSE's chat up lines. I don't know whether to feel ignored or lucky!!
Lucky. Usually when I tell a lady my chat up lines, for some inexplicable reason her drink ends up on me.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
Indeed, nice to meet and chat. I missed TSE's chat up lines. I don't know whether to feel ignored or lucky!!
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
Indeed, nice to meet and chat. I missed TSE's chat up lines. I don't know whether to feel ignored or lucky!!
Lucky. Usually when I tell a lady my chat up lines, for some inexplicable reason her drink ends up on me.
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
The same person with 5 years experience in 2010 will have 10 years experience in 2015.
Will this not qualify them for an increase up the pay scale in addition to the annual salary uplift?
Progress through the pay scale benefits a number of private and public sector workers although such increases were mostly replaced by performance assessment increases (rather than increases for service years) in the private sector.
The government has been working towards converting service years increases through the scale into performance increases for teachers and others. Not sure how far this process has got. Anyone know?
For some you are correct. Although when you say in addition to the annual salary uplift there havent been any in the last 4 years in the NHS
Some pay spines only have 5 points so those will not.
Also at most FTs incremental progression is dependent on meeting objectives now, this used to be relatively easy, not so now though.
What? You mean increments have to earned? How unreasonable of the employers?
What? You mean increments have to earned? How unreasonable of the employers? Why do you think agency costs paid by the NHS have gone up 10 fold since 2010 as a matter of interest?
It's quite a modest, inoffensive song - compared to some of their efforts...
The calls for his sacking are purely on musical grounds. I suspect Irish football fans have taken to following Delaney around with camcorders in the hope of filming anything dubious that would result in him resigning. This is not a sacking offence but I'd take anything to be rid of him.
Depending on how maudling you want to be, smoking is decreasing nearly as fast as obesity is increasing. Smoking is very expensive but at least produces tax revenues of a sort. VAT on food for the obesity epidemic would be the lefty answer.
Depending on how maudling you want to be, smoking is decreasing nearly as fast as obesity is increasing. Smoking is very expensive but at least produces tax revenues of a sort. VAT on food for the obesity epidemic would be the lefty answer.
It's quite a modest, inoffensive song - compared to some of their efforts...
The calls for his sacking are purely on musical grounds. I suspect Irish football fans have taken to following Delaney around with camcorders in the hope of filming anything dubious that would result in him resigning. This is not a sacking offence but I'd take anything to be rid of him.
My "rather privileged view of the world" is the British citizenship is an honour and a privilege, and that all people who have that status should have the same rights. However, with those rights come duties and obligations.
I am comfortable with the idea of people having a safe harbour so that they do not need to undertake positive actions which are against their belief system. But, fundamentally, if you want to be part of our society you need to acknowledge the supremacy of the secular law in the UK - and that it applies equally to all citizens. You can't have a situation whereby you say "I am a Catholic/Muslim/Pastafarian/whatever: this law does not apply to me" - if you want to take advantage of the safe harbour then you need to provide people with an alternative way to exercise their rights under the law.
* steps back and takes tissue from pocket, ready to wipe spittle from face *
Where does this leave you with being forced to make gay wedding cakes and the like?
I don't know the specific of the N.Irish case, so not commenting on that. In general, though:
- Bakers can't refuse to serve gay people per se - They should have to treat people equally regardless of orientation (eg if decorating a cake with the message "I like sex" is offensive then it is offensive for both gays and straight people) - If they find a message against their religious beliefs then they need to have a system in place to ensure the customer can get served. Eg "I don't want to make a cake like that, but here is the number of Joe the Baker in the next town and he'd be happy to make it for you)
Mr. Pulpstar, chewing celery burns more calories than is gained by consuming it. Would that entail a rebate on the Cal-Tax?
No.
Consider celery, often proposed as a negative-calorie food due to its low-calorie count, high water density, and impressive fibre content.
While all that chewing and digesting of the fibrous food does burn calories, it doesn't burn a lot. "
There may be just 10 calories in a larger stick, but the body takes only one-fifth that much," to process, says Dr Garvey. "It's still calorie plus."
Never mind that man cannot live on celery alone, and few people just eat raw celery.
"It's more of a gateway to cream cheese or peanut butter," says David Grotto, a nutritionist and author of The Best Things You Can Eat.
That's not to say that celery sticks - along with other high fibre, water-heavy fruits and vegetables - have no value as weight-loss aids.
"These foods do fill up the stomach and increase satiety," says Dr Garvey, keeping you from ingesting more calories later - but not burning off the calories you've already consumed.
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
Why not try:
I need mothering and you look old enough
I knew someone who used to say 'I'm Joe Bloggs, will you sleep with me?' 99 times out of a hundred (on reflection, as this was Newcastle that may be a bit high) they said 'no' - he just said it often enough.....
Jim Murphy speech - apparently when asked about whether he'd briefed the two Eds on his tax plans he said 'They can read about it in the papers, same as everyone else...'
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
Why not try:
I need mothering and you look old enough
I knew someone who used to say 'I'm Joe Bloggs, will you sleep with me?' 99 times out of a hundred (on reflection, as this was Newcastle that may be a bit high) they said 'no' - he just said it often enough.....
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
It's quite a modest, inoffensive song - compared to some of their efforts...
The calls for his sacking are purely on musical grounds. I suspect Irish football fans have taken to following Delaney around with camcorders in the hope of filming anything dubious that would result in him resigning. This is not a sacking offence but I'd take anything to be rid of him.
What's so bad about him ?
Typical sports administrator stuff. He's a bigger chancer than most.
He was presumably complaining because it takes him a year to get from the FAI what Rooney gets from Man U and, of course, Delaney is far more important.
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
As far as I know the most a staff nurse or senior midwife can earn is top of band 5. £27534 in 2010 and £27,901 in 2015. This would be at least 8 years post qualification
Sisters are band 6 (about £7k more) but would require a further 6 years expereince (14 in total to reach that level) and very few do.
Of course if you fall for a TSE chatline you will be in the harem long before you achieve these heights.
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
A qualified nurse with 5 years experience would get £24554 at GE2010 A qualified nurse with 5 years experience at 31 March 2015 will earn £24799
£249 extra in 5 years gross
Their pension contribution has risen from 6% TO 7.1% IE £272.79 more
So even in cash terms they are £23 worse off in NHS pay and pension.
Real Terms at least a 15% reduction.
No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates
Meanwhile CEOs of FTSE 100 companies get significant double digit rises in additional to the 10% tax cut the Tories 'imposed' on them.
One rule for the rich, one rule for the poor - 'twas always the Tory way...
BJO: I'm with you on CEO's paying themselves silly sums for nothing, all too often.
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Agreed nice to chat at DDs too
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
Indeed, nice to meet and chat. I missed TSE's chat up lines. I don't know whether to feel ignored or lucky!!
Lucky. Usually when I tell a lady my chat up lines, for some inexplicable reason her drink ends up on me.
I always put it down to their inability to remain vertical stood on those shoe stilts they all seem to wear?
Why tax oil? Any tax should be on carbs, not calories. Taxing fat doesn't capture fattening things like beer, bread, or potatoes. Taxing carbs does.
We've had a low fat obsession for 40 years and it's coincided with an obesity epidemic.
The latest diet think is that saturated fat is NOT a problem to health. It's trans fats (hydrogenated) which causes all the problems. Think margarine, vegetable shortening, , crackers (even healthy sounding ones like Nabisco Wheat Thins), cereals, candies, baked goods, cookies, granola bars, chips, snack foods, salad dressings, fats, fried foods, and many other processed foods.
In other words processed foods including McDonalds and other fast foods.
So tax them.. It's easy...
The only issue is that over my lifetime, the advice on fatty food has swung form "healthy" to "unhealthy" and back again. So clearly the advisers don't know what they are talking about....
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
Why not try:
I need mothering and you look old enough
I knew someone who used to say 'I'm Joe Bloggs, will you sleep with me?' 99 times out of a hundred (on reflection, as this was Newcastle that may be a bit high) they said 'no' - he just said it often enough.....
The old joke:
"What's your name?" "Go away".
"Fancy a drink?" "No"
"Do you want to dance then?" "No"
"I s'pose a shag's out of the question, then?"
The quote is actually from the 80's movie " Porkies " when the girls were lined up on one side of the dance venue and the boys on the other.
After the boy asked very politely for a dance the girl looked him up and down with distaste said
"hell no"
The boys line was then "
Ok........ I suppose a blow job is out of the question then"
The easiest way to tax food is to make it subject to the lower 5% VAT rate (used for domestic electricity etc) which could be applied to most items or the standard 20% VAT rate for the unhealthy stuff.
Anybody who got within 5% of the right answer can feel some pride in their effort. (That me, but only just!).
Don't want to blow my own trumpet, but, since you ask...1.26%
The main thing is that I beat Shadsy. Not often one can say that!
At 6.60% I came just 0.66% outside the correct total, which wasn't bad, even if I say so myself.
Now watch my predicted total of +70 seats for UKIP at the GE take shape.
You never confirmed terms on our spread bet.
You still up for it, or have you gone frit?
This was the bet that I agreed to, and still agree to it: Do you want to frame a bet on that: let's say a central point of 18% [mid way between Survation's 24% and the top end of my range] and any figure up to £5 per point on the UKIP vote share.
The fact was that I agreed to it, but you didn't confirm.
Anybody who got within 5% of the right answer can feel some pride in their effort. (That me, but only just!).
Don't want to blow my own trumpet, but, since you ask...1.26%
The main thing is that I beat Shadsy. Not often one can say that!
At 6.60% I came just 0.66% outside the correct total, which wasn't bad, even if I say so myself.
Now watch my predicted total of +70 seats for UKIP at the GE take shape.
You never confirmed terms on our spread bet.
You still up for it, or have you gone frit?
This was the bet that I agreed to, and still agree to it: Do you want to frame a bet on that: let's say a central point of 18% [mid way between Survation's 24% and the top end of my range] and any figure up to £5 per point on the UKIP vote share.
The fact was that I agreed to it, but you didn't confirm.
Anybody who got within 5% of the right answer can feel some pride in their effort. (That me, but only just!).
Don't want to blow my own trumpet, but, since you ask...1.26%
The main thing is that I beat Shadsy. Not often one can say that!
At 6.60% I came just 0.66% outside the correct total, which wasn't bad, even if I say so myself.
Now watch my predicted total of +70 seats for UKIP at the GE take shape.
You never confirmed terms on our spread bet.
You still up for it, or have you gone frit?
This was the bet that I agreed to, and still agree to it: Do you want to frame a bet on that: let's say a central point of 18% [mid way between Survation's 24% and the top end of my range] and any figure up to £5 per point on the UKIP vote share.
The fact was that I agreed to it, but you didn't confirm.
Our confirmation posts must have crossed then.
Central point of 18% Rounded to the nearest full percentage point £5 per point Max gain/loss capped at £50 I get paid for each pp below 18% and you get paid for each pp above 18%
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
Why not try:
I need mothering and you look old enough
I knew someone who used to say 'I'm Joe Bloggs, will you sleep with me?' 99 times out of a hundred (on reflection, as this was Newcastle that may be a bit high) they said 'no' - he just said it often enough.....
The old joke:
"What's your name?" "Go away".
"Fancy a drink?" "No"
"Do you want to dance then?" "No"
"I s'pose a shag's out of the question, then?"
The quote is actually from the 80's movie " Porkies " when the girls were lined up on one side of the dance venue and the boys on the other.
After the boy asked very politely for a dance the girl looked him up and down with distaste said
"hell no"
The boys line was then "
Ok........ I suppose a blow job is out of the question then"
Classic
Brilliant movie as were the sequels.
Haven't seen the film. (Hadn't even heard of it until 10 minutes ago.) Don't need to see it now.
Nurses pay is, of course, a grey area. There is basic pay, there are scales of pay, there are weightings, it is very difficult to say 'a nurse is paid xx'. For example, the quote below comes from some research, giving average pay data:
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
Something doesn't smell right to me about the Facebook story. It feels like a "look squirrel" story. The FCA can track insider dealers who contact each other via Facebook.
The easiest way to tax food is to make it subject to the lower 5% VAT rate (used for domestic electricity etc) which could be applied to most items or the standard 20% VAT rate for the unhealthy stuff.
I would add as the tax would be regressive benefits for the poorest would need to be uprated accordingly but otherwise this may be one way to reduce the deficit. The extra tax on unhealthy food is not to make these items unaffordable but to reflect the costs of dealing with the obesity epidemic.
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
Why not try:
I need mothering and you look old enough
I knew someone who used to say 'I'm Joe Bloggs, will you sleep with me?' 99 times out of a hundred (on reflection, as this was Newcastle that may be a bit high) they said 'no' - he just said it often enough.....
The old joke:
"What's your name?" "Go away".
"Fancy a drink?" "No"
"Do you want to dance then?" "No"
"I s'pose a shag's out of the question, then?"
The quote is actually from the 80's movie " Porkies " when the girls were lined up on one side of the dance venue and the boys on the other.
After the boy asked very politely for a dance the girl looked him up and down with distaste said
"hell no"
The boys line was then "
Ok........ I suppose a blow job is out of the question then"
Classic
Brilliant movie as were the sequels.
Haven't seen the film. (Hadn't even heard of it until 10 minutes ago.) Don't need to see it now.
Why? There were really some great one liners in this besides that one it was a movie that was a high school " Animal house" . I presume you heard of that?
Comments
Quite a decent by me.
Quoting "cash terms" for "pre-tax" is rather disingenuous.
[EDIT: I see I am late to the party on this one. serves me right for making a cuppa while mid-way through a response. I'm increasingly of the opinion that BJO is a quite a successful troll.]
And I can see why nurses might feel aggrieved. I too went 5 years without any pay increase - indeed had a pay cut - post 2008.
But your statement - "No wonder the opt to rip the NHS off by only agreeing to work at agency rates" made me stop.
Ripping off the NHS - however rational in monetary terms - is not very compatible with the whole "angels of public service selflessly working for others and not thinking of themselves" image some like to project.
They're just like everyone else, responding to economic and other incentives, not some higher class of being, just because they're in the public sector. (And, incidentally, I don't subscribe to the "public sector = bad / private sector = good" or the opposite argument, either.)
Same goes for everyone else, just sad that I didn't get a chance to talk to everyone !
I had a "mysterious" headache the next morning though !
The nhs one recomended a 1% increase for all NHS staff.
Scotland and Wales have implemented it.
In England vacancy and Agency spend is bankrupting the English NHS at the same time as standards fall.
But I don't
Hope you didnt fall for one of TSEs chat up lines!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybcgc8BQlQQ
The same person with 5 years experience in 2010 will have 10 years experience in 2015.
Will this not qualify them for an increase up the pay scale in addition to the annual salary uplift?
Progress through the pay scale benefits a number of private and public sector workers although such increases were mostly replaced by performance assessment increases (rather than increases for service years) in the private sector.
The government has been working towards converting service years increases through the scale into performance increases for teachers and others. Not sure how far this process has got. Anyone know?
You are probably aware of my view of who the poor are now.
This article yesterday reflected iT well
Socrates notes that Governments have passed the pension timebomb down to the next one for years...but here we are. The bomb is exploding - it will take a decade or two, but there we go.
So how can we reduce demand to stop the over-exhaustion of services? Constant re-orgs have surely driven out some costs, but like many corporates too, this only ever does so much.
Clearly reality will hit that we HAVE to charge for minor visits and injuries and keep the most crucial bits of the NHS - major injuries, cancers, disabilities etc free for all.
Here I am, a capitalist, arguing for another tax...I can't see any other way though. Whilst totally free at the point of use, demand is going up exponentially for the NHS. That part has to be curbed as supply is limited by the public finances
What will break first the NHS or the credit markets?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-30191100
Perhaps the obesity and pensions time bombs will cancel one another out.
Some pay spines only have 5 points so those will not.
Also at most FTs incremental progression is dependent on meeting objectives now, this used to be relatively easy, not so now though.
PB Tories, always wrong.....
Far better than you ending up on her?
Ah Wales! So this is where NHS needs to get its lessons. An interesting view. What? You mean increments have to earned? How unreasonable of the employers?
Apple
Google
Microsoft
Twitter
Yahoo
...
Your eyes are like spanners. Every time you look at me, my nuts tighten.
Yeah, thinking about it, it's a miracle I'm not assaulted more often.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/11/25/what-now-for-ferrari/
What? You mean increments have to earned? How unreasonable of the employers?
Why do you think agency costs paid by the NHS have gone up 10 fold since 2010 as a matter of interest?
Depending on how maudling you want to be, smoking is decreasing nearly as fast as obesity is increasing. Smoking is very expensive but at least produces tax revenues of a sort. VAT on food for the obesity epidemic would be the lefty answer.
I need mothering and you look old enough
A penny per 10 kcal perhaps ?
- Bakers can't refuse to serve gay people per se
- They should have to treat people equally regardless of orientation (eg if decorating a cake with the message "I like sex" is offensive then it is offensive for both gays and straight people)
- If they find a message against their religious beliefs then they need to have a system in place to ensure the customer can get served. Eg "I don't want to make a cake like that, but here is the number of Joe the Baker in the next town and he'd be happy to make it for you)
Arrived in my inbox in last hour have the new snooper laws impacted already or did you send it me Felix?
https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-hunt-pay-nhs-staff-fairly-nhspay
Consider celery, often proposed as a negative-calorie food due to its low-calorie count, high water density, and impressive fibre content.
While all that chewing and digesting of the fibrous food does burn calories, it doesn't burn a lot. "
There may be just 10 calories in a larger stick, but the body takes only one-fifth that much," to process, says Dr Garvey. "It's still calorie plus."
Never mind that man cannot live on celery alone, and few people just eat raw celery.
"It's more of a gateway to cream cheese or peanut butter," says David Grotto, a nutritionist and author of The Best Things You Can Eat.
That's not to say that celery sticks - along with other high fibre, water-heavy fruits and vegetables - have no value as weight-loss aids.
"These foods do fill up the stomach and increase satiety," says Dr Garvey, keeping you from ingesting more calories later - but not burning off the calories you've already consumed.
Qualified nurses including midwives and health visitors earned £30,619, a 0.6 per cent increase on 2012 and a 7.5 per cent increase on 2009. Within this staff group:
Also a meaningless statistic, but perfectly valid statistic. At an average of 30K there may be a bit less sympathy?
http://www.hscic.gov.uk/article/3453/Average-NHS-pay-up-one-per-cent-last-year-and-nearly-nine-per-cent-in-four-years
What could be worse than that?!
It remains true, however, that celery is a bloody awful weed masquerading as food.
http://www.labourhame.com/murphy-speech-full-text/
Joint income? £73,000
*An expression I learned here.....
We've had a low fat obsession for 40 years and it's coincided with an obesity epidemic.
"What's your name?" "Go away".
"Fancy a drink?" "No"
"Do you want to dance then?" "No"
"I s'pose a shag's out of the question, then?"
I particularly like this:
http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/ireland/2014/03/13/4681093/fai-chief-john-delaney-slams-outrageous-rooney-contract
He was presumably complaining because it takes him a year to get from the FAI what Rooney gets from Man U and, of course, Delaney is far more important.
Sisters are band 6 (about £7k more) but would require a further 6 years expereince (14 in total to reach that level) and very few do.
Of course if you fall for a TSE chatline you will be in the harem long before you achieve these heights.
1/10th of a garage?
I may be wrong in that assumption.
Now watch my predicted total of +70 seats for UKIP at the GE take shape.
1) Would you like a drink or would you rather have the money instead ?
2) Do you wash your knickers in windolene because I can see myself in them.
3) Have you got an Yorkshire in you ? No, well would you like some ?
4) Are you from Venus because your [moderated] is out of this world ?
5) Do you know difference between a glass of champagne and a penis? No, you say, in that case would you like to go for a drink with me.
In other words processed foods including McDonalds and other fast foods.
So tax them.. It's easy...
The only issue is that over my lifetime, the advice on fatty food has swung form "healthy" to "unhealthy" and back again. So clearly the advisers don't know what they are talking about....
Not a great basis for taxing anything.
The quote is actually from the 80's movie " Porkies " when the girls were lined up on one side of the dance venue and the boys on the other.
After the boy asked very politely for a dance the girl looked him up and down with distaste said
"hell no"
The boys line was then "
Ok........ I suppose a blow job is out of the question then"
Classic
Brilliant movie as were the sequels.
The Apprentice TV show should be taxed out of existence and its' host consigned back to watch Spurs for life.
Cruel but necessary.
You still up for it, or have you gone frit?
If they have not broken the law, and their action is wrong, the law should be changed.
I don't think its Facebook's role (or any other service provider's) to police the communication of its users.
Lee Rigby's uncle very dignified and measured in his response.
Surely that most Yorkshire of chat-up lines.
"Eee, you don't sweat much for a fat lass."
Do you want to frame a bet on that: let's say a central point of 18% [mid way between Survation's 24% and the top end of my range] and any figure up to £5 per point on the UKIP vote share.
The fact was that I agreed to it, but you didn't confirm.
So if UKIP get 70 MPs, you win £2,000
If UKIP get 1 MP then I win £4,900?
I'm up for it!!!
Ex Villa & Newcastle keeper.. That's a given
Central point of 18%
Rounded to the nearest full percentage point
£5 per point
Max gain/loss capped at £50
I get paid for each pp below 18% and you get paid for each pp above 18%
Ok?
@peter_the_punter for confirmation
What's the usual starting salary for a someone with degree?
To my shock she said yes, so I very kindly took her up on her offer!
Still, I don't envy Facebook's PR people today.
Why?
There were really some great one liners in this besides that one it was a movie that was a high school " Animal house" . I presume you heard of that?
Well, not too much anyway ....