Catching up on the last thread. I'd like to thank Mr Sykes for this gem, which led to a hearty chuckle and brightened a sh1tty day at work:
It's those of a right-on, intellectual, Guardian-reading, wonkish, hoity-toity, champagne socialist, mwah-mwah, darling luvvie dear, elitist, culture-wanker persuasion who are the complete arseholes who hate the English, the British, our history, and our country and all it stands for.
The flag story is the perfect PB story - for it 'proves' PBers' prejudices about Labour being posh rich who hate the English
It's the perfect PB story because it demonstrates beyond all doubt that what they have been saying for many months is correct. Ed Milliband is crap. You know he is, you just can't bring yourself to admit it, probably, not even to yourself.
essays on why the left hates England, a theme they thoroughly enjoy.
The 'essay' quoted was by Nick Cohen, and others mentioned George Orwell......terrible righties, eh?
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
Daniel Hodges omits to mention that Klass War was good for Ed: the public supported his view. The media may have opposed it, but that is a different thing.
No. A few very loud voices supported his view. Most people saw a man out of his depth being batted about by a woman with no political background. If he can't hold his own against that sort of opponent, it is no wonder why he can't cope as leader of a once great party.
Not at all so - even the weight of commentary on the Daily Mail website was against Miss Klass. I believe only one PB poster called this right: Mr Big John Owls. The tyranny of crowds on here did for reasoned analysis I am afraid
Well put it another way then?
He just can't point at shadow cabinet members and sack them......
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
And so it the negative spin and downplaying of any UKIP achievements on PB reached its inevitable, desperate conclusion... when UKIP had two Westminster MPs they were criticised for not running any Parish councils
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
And so it the negative spin and downplaying of any UKIP achievements on PB reached its inevitable, desperate conclusion... when UKIP had two Westminster MPs they were criticised for not running any Parish councils
The anti-UKIP bias is painful on here at times. There's about three or four posters that do nothing but post anti-UKIP smears.
Of course there are many on here who would castigate Labour no matter what they say or don't say, do or don't do. The reasoning behind the Labour effort in R&S is clear - it is in Labour's interests to keep UKIP alive and kicking as a real threat to Conservatives in the south and as a way of allowing Labour to pick up some key marginals.
Had Labour worked the seat there were logically one of two outcomes: either they would still have finished third maybe with 20-25 % or the Conservatives would have sneaked home and a Conservative victory over UKIP doesn't work well for Labour.
In politics sometime, the only choice is which of your opponents you gain most from winning. Yes, UKIP may be a problem for Labour in some areas but it's a much bigger problem for the Conservatives. Labour made a political calculation (probably the correct one) in that keeping UKIP as a viable political force does the Conservatives more harm next year than it does them.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
You could be right. I suspect that if UKIP do persist (something I'm by no means certain of) they will become a sort of Plaid England - misty-eyed old dreamers who are only ever seen for two minutes on Budget Day ('This budget has done nothing for the people of Essex'). Other than that, the world will have moved on.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
And so it the negative spin and downplaying of any UKIP achievements on PB reached its inevitable, desperate conclusion... when UKIP had two Westminster MPs they were criticised for not running any Parish councils
You can't face the truth that your current party of choice has not attracted enough support to give it power at a local level - but still think it can gain power at a national level.
By-elections after a defection don't show the true level of support for the party - just as Euro elections don't.
What matters are local government elections and Westminster elections. And UKIP have not made a breakthrough there.
Catching up on the last thread. I'd like to thank Mr Sykes for this gem, which led to a hearty chuckle and brightened a sh1tty day at work:
It's those of a right-on, intellectual, Guardian-reading, wonkish, hoity-toity, champagne socialist, mwah-mwah, darling luvvie dear, elitist, culture-wanker persuasion who are the complete arseholes who hate the English, the British, our history, and our country and all it stands for.
The flag story is the perfect PB story - for it 'proves' PBers' prejudices about Labour being posh rich who hate the English
It's the perfect PB story because it demonstrates beyond all doubt that what they have been saying for many months is correct. Ed Milliband is crap. You know he is, you just can't bring yourself to admit it, probably, not even to yourself.
essays on why the left hates England, a theme they thoroughly enjoy.
The 'essay' quoted was by Nick Cohen, and others mentioned George Orwell......terrible righties, eh?
Look downthread Miss Vance
Anorak - urban liberals are good people and a key group - why shouldn't they have a party that represents them? Why does this site despise them so much? I find it awkwardly odd myself
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
Daniel Hodges omits to mention that Klass War was good for Ed: the public supported his view. The media may have opposed it, but that is a different thing.
No. A few very loud voices supported his view. Most people saw a man out of his depth being batted about by a woman with no political background. If he can't hold his own against that sort of opponent, it is no wonder why he can't cope as leader of a once great party.
Not at all so - even the weight of commentary on the Daily Mail website was against Miss Klass. I believe only one PB poster called this right: Mr Big John Owls. The tyranny of crowds on here did for reasoned analysis I am afraid
It is not about what was said, it is all about how it was handled.
The Labour Party machine went into bully mode. And that is deeply unattractive.
It has been a very bad week for Team Miliband - very bad.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
Daniel Hodges omits to mention that Klass War was good for Ed: the public supported his view. The media may have opposed it, but that is a different thing.
No. A few very loud voices supported his view. Most people saw a man out of his depth being batted about by a woman with no political background. If he can't hold his own against that sort of opponent, it is no wonder why he can't cope as leader of a once great party.
Not at all so - even the weight of commentary on the Daily Mail website was against Miss Klass. I believe only one PB poster called this right: Mr Big John Owls. The tyranny of crowds on here did for reasoned analysis I am afraid
It is not about what was said, it is all about how it was handled.
The Labour Party machine went into bully mode. And that is deeply unattractive.
It has been a very bad week for Team Miliband - very bad.
It does feel like another bad week for Miliband. Thank goodness the Labour party lacks the ability to remove their Leaders when they prove to be terrible.
Now why did anyone in Labour think that a protege of Gordon Brown would make a good Leader?
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
Daniel Hodges omits to mention that Klass War was good for Ed: the public supported his view. The media may have opposed it, but that is a different thing.
No. A few very loud voices supported his view. Most people saw a man out of his depth being batted about by a woman with no political background. If he can't hold his own against that sort of opponent, it is no wonder why he can't cope as leader of a once great party.
Not at all so - even the weight of commentary on the Daily Mail website was against Miss Klass. I believe only one PB poster called this right: Mr Big John Owls. The tyranny of crowds on here did for reasoned analysis I am afraid
It is not about what was said, it is all about how it was handled.
The Labour Party machine went into bully mode. And that is deeply unattractive.
It has been a very bad week for Team Miliband - very bad.
The latest poll says otherwise.
Polling versus your opinion
Selective use of polling proves absolutely nothing - as you well know
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
And so it the negative spin and downplaying of any UKIP achievements on PB reached its inevitable, desperate conclusion... when UKIP had two Westminster MPs they were criticised for not running any Parish councils
The anti-UKIP bias is painful on here at times. There's about three or four posters that do nothing but post anti-UKIP smears.
And so the skipper whining starts up again -earlier we were told they were quietly celebrating their moment in the sun. How's that going for you?
Ed posted a photo of him talking to kids at Wren Academy, complete with big Labour poster. Looking forward to Farage, Clegg and Cameron doing the same and getting slated for the same stunt.
Do we PBers think we might be overplaying Flag gate just a teensy weensy bit? Just maybe?
In itself it is trivial. What it (may or may not, depending on your point of view) says about the man who could be PM in a little over 5 months is not - 'decisive stand against snobbery' or 'panicked defenestration of loyal ally' is not.
I am of the view that the only reason Ms Thornberry had to resign www that she has for many years been rubbish. I failed to see why her tweet was so bad - and I am a patriotic scout. Nevertheless, the airing it has received on here is entirely disproportionate, and a thinly disguised attempt for Conservative supporters to deflect from another dreadful byelection defeat in their heartlands. I feel for Kelly Tolhurst, a good woman who will no doubt become a scapegoat for the result.
Its the kipperati that are all over it like a rash. They are desperate to peddle themselves as labour friendly, preferably without the necessity to peddle Labour friendly policies (or any policies really) other than being nasty to immigrants. It will be a neat trick considering they are led by a camel hair coated city spiv.
Just on the expectations theme Ukip did try to damp them down after the polls closed but by then it was too late. It wasn't all their fault anyway - the polls were either wrong or out of date given there weren't any in the final week and the unfairly maligned KT did her bit as well in a hard fought campaign.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
Catching up on the last thread. I'd like to thank Mr Sykes for this gem, which led to a hearty chuckle and brightened a sh1tty day at work:
It's those of a right-on, intellectual, Guardian-reading, wonkish, hoity-toity, champagne socialist, mwah-mwah, darling luvvie dear, elitist, culture-wanker persuasion who are the complete arseholes who hate the English, the British, our history, and our country and all it stands for.
The flag story is the perfect PB story - for it 'proves' PBers' prejudices about Labour being posh rich who hate the English
It's the perfect PB story because it demonstrates beyond all doubt that what they have been saying for many months is correct. Ed Milliband is crap. You know he is, you just can't bring yourself to admit it, probably, not even to yourself.
essays on why the left hates England, a theme they thoroughly enjoy.
The 'essay' quoted was by Nick Cohen, and others mentioned George Orwell......terrible righties, eh?
Look downthread Miss Vance
Anorak - urban liberals are good people and a key group - why shouldn't they have a party that represents them? Why does this site despise them so much? I find it awkwardly odd myself
I should start a petition to ban PB tories - go on you know you want to:)
Of course there are many on here who would castigate Labour no matter what they say or don't say, do or don't do. The reasoning behind the Labour effort in R&S is clear - it is in Labour's interests to keep UKIP alive and kicking as a real threat to Conservatives in the south and as a way of allowing Labour to pick up some key marginals. ......
By abandoning a coastal seat that once was Labour's, without even a fight, think of the message that sends to the activists in similar areas. It is very bad for Labour party morale and good for the morale of its rivals. A very stupid short term tactical decision without thinking through the wider consequences.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
And so it the negative spin and downplaying of any UKIP achievements on PB reached its inevitable, desperate conclusion... when UKIP had two Westminster MPs they were criticised for not running any Parish councils
You can't face the truth that your current party of choice has not attracted enough support to give it power at a local level - but still think it can gain power at a national level.
By-elections after a defection don't show the true level of support for the party - just as Euro elections don't.
What matters are local government elections and Westminster elections. And UKIP have not made a breakthrough there.
The UKIP surge only really broke through in the 2013 local elections. There are several councils 'all up' next year. I'd expect UKIP to do well in Tendring if nowhere else.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
By abandoning a coastal seat that once was Labour's, without even a fight, think of the message that sends to the activists in similar areas. It is very bad for Labour party morale and good for the morale of its rivals. A very stupid short term tactical decision without thinking through the wider consequences.
Politics doesn't work that way. Political activists know how the game works. Sometimes you fight the battle, sometimes you don't. I'm sure Labour did something, possibly in their own Wards or in Wards they are targetting on the local Council. Knocking on doors, getting new members is important and you don't need the cavalcade of 600 "activists" descending on the constituency.
Perhaps "throwing the kitchen sink" and failing isn't that good for morale either.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
Ah bitter and wrong, what a lovely combination
My point still stands - UKIP has no real experience of government, even at local level. Next year, people will be voting for the next government of the UK. UKIP have not demonstrated that they are credible as a party of government. A protest movement - maybe. But not a party of government that can point to a record of running services well at a local level and being able to say 'Look how well we have done here, give us the chance to show how well we can run the country'
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring that he was right in predicting that there would be no referendum and stating that the only way to remove PM Miliband would be to vote UKIP and add to the 1 UKIP MP ..... etc etc spin.......
"The fact that the final UKIP margin of victory was less than that shown in all four polls has led some commentators attempting to portray the result as some sort of success for the Conservative Party, but of course had there been no polling published during the campaign period, today would almost certainly be being viewed as a devastating blow to originally hopeful Conservative plans for defeating Mark Reckless and deterring further defections"
Have to say credit where credit is due Carlotta, as I previously thought you they type who wouldn't post anything as brutally honest about Tory failings as this
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
To be fair, Nigel has explicitly ruled that out on LBC today. No Coalitions with anyone - we could call it equidistance if you like.
I was slightly in jest hence the Nick Clegg comment - this site becomes too serious and partisan on days like this. Back in the days when the civilised members of our cohort would commune on the balcony of the National Liberal Club, enjoy the summer air, a hearty repast and discuss matters of moment.
Far better than the back of a London boozer though again more in keeping with Nigel who I do hope makes a nod to his scholastic past by reciting part of his post-election speech in Latin and dropping in the odd "Pueri Alleynienses" reference.
By the by, I also heard Michael Gove say that the Tories had asked Boris to keep away from R&S because of his support for an estaury airport which they feared wouldn't go down well in the Constituency - slightly surprising given the possibility of thousands of new jobs for the area.
By abandoning a coastal seat that once was Labour's, without even a fight, think of the message that sends to the activists in similar areas. It is very bad for Labour party morale and good for the morale of its rivals. A very stupid short term tactical decision without thinking through the wider consequences.
Politics doesn't work that way. Political activists know how the game works. Sometimes you fight the battle, sometimes you don't. I'm sure Labour did something, possibly in their own Wards or in Wards they are targetting on the local Council. Knocking on doors, getting new members is important and you don't need the cavalcade of 600 "activists" descending on the constituency.
Perhaps "throwing the kitchen sink" and failing isn't that good for morale either.
Actually you are very wrong. Volunteer activists want to see the central party folk give them full support when they really need it. They want to feel appreciated and supported for all the many hours of free work that they have given to the party.
I have just seen the biggest piece of private bling ever made today. Obviously it would be tasteless to appear to make fun of it or it's owner on a public blog so I'll confine myself to saying that the giant bronze turtle the size of a hellicopter with Michael Jackson sitting on it's back is currently gracing the garden of the late Boris Berezovsky on Cap Ferrat.
Ed Milliband would like it to be known that he finds it moving.
I suppose it is too much to hope that there might just have been a fly-on-the-wall documentary crew following Ed around for the past few days? Because it would be like The Thick of It on steroids....
I'm almost tempted to start supporting Miliband.
If he became PM the continual clusterfucks would provide great entertainment and betting opportunities and best of all I wouldn't suffer too much not living in the UK!
I have just seen the biggest piece of private bling ever made today. Obviously it would be tasteless to appear to make fun of it or it's owner on a public blog so I'll confine myself to saying that the giant bronze turtle the size of a hellicopter with Michael Jackson sitting on it's back is currently gracing the garden of the late Boris Berezovsky on Cap Ferrat.
Ed Milliband would like it to be known that he finds it moving.
Has he been to SpecSavers?
I can report that I haven't noticed any St George's Flags close to the Stretford End.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
Suzanne Evans says UKIP's Rochester by-election vote matched their EU Parliament performance there. 27% at the general election would be dramatic. :-)
Have to say credit where credit is due Carlotta, as I previously thought you they type who wouldn't post anything as brutally honest about Tory failings as this
The truth sets us free!
For the Conservatives, though, this result is a particular tactical embarrassment. From the moment of Mark Reckless’ defection they had announced their intention to throw the proverbial kitchen sink at the constituency, to punish Reckless for his decision to defect and warn off other potential defections.
Mercifully Comical Ed has provided a welcome distraction today - but it was a (not quite as bad as it could have been, but still) bad result for Con.....
Yes, the margin was much closer last night then many suspected but the turnout was lower than some believed and lower than would be the case at a GE.
I would have thought that lower turnout would suit UKIP? I dont think it's a given (the odds are fairly balanced) but the factors in the Tories' favour here next May are (1) it wont be a byelection (2) the narrative will probably be Dave V Ed for PM and that should concentrate minds / squeeze some votes (3) turnout will be higher (I presume that works against UKIP but maybe I'm wrong). Compared to the by-election I'm struggling to think of what will be much better for Reckless than applied yesterday. Of course he does have a margin to start off with.
....
Those who are not well disposed toward Labour can find something or something retweeted or misquoted to confirm their view. As for how he will perform in an election campaign when he has the opportunity to critique a Government performance which even its stuanchest supporters might argue is not without its flaws, that remains to be seen.
We also have in David Cameron an individual who we know can be brittle under pressure and has been known to throw a wobbly when faced with a line of questionning he doesn't like. He will face some searching and awkward questions about his Government's performance and I suspect some of his bonhomie may crack round the edges.
Cameron regularly goes around the country meeting voters at public meetings. He does not hide. The govt have not got a bad record. It has reformed health education welfare pensions local government. It has cut massively from the public payroll. It is saving £2 billion by cutting quangos. £2.6 billion by 2015. In the last four years, a total of 185 quangos have been abolished, whilst 165 bodies were merged into 70. Its balanced the defence budget after finding a £36 billion black hole. It proposes a referendum in 2017. Its easy to rabbit on with the received 'wisdom' of the usual suspects but the facts are the govt have not done badly and we have record numbers in employment, we have falling unemployment and low inflation and good growth of GDP. Over half a million fewer local authority workers. If tax receipts are low its because there has been a big increase in allowances. Only a fool would criticise any government for not being perfect but the govt have a record that can be defended with relative ease.
Do we PBers think we might be overplaying Flag gate just a teensy weensy bit? Just maybe?
In itself it is trivial. What it (may or may not, depending on your point of view) says about the man who could be PM in a little over 5 months is not - 'decisive stand against snobbery' or 'panicked defenestration of loyal ally' is not.
I am of the view that the only reason Ms Thornberry had to resign www that she has for many years been rubbish. I failed to see why her tweet was so bad - and I am a patriotic scout. Nevertheless, the airing it has received on here is entirely disproportionate, and a thinly disguised attempt for Conservative supporters to deflect from another dreadful byelection defeat in their heartlands. I feel for Kelly Tolhurst, a good woman who will no doubt become a scapegoat for the result.
Its the kipperati that are all over it like a rash. They are desperate to peddle themselves as labour friendly, preferably without the necessity to peddle Labour friendly policies (or any policies really) other than being nasty to immigrants. It will be a neat trick considering they are led by a camel hair coated city spiv.
And... once again Flightpath pops up and makes a statement that is entirely untrue.
I do wonder at your ability to be so completely wrong on so many subjects at the same time. It takes a special kind of idiocy.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
Ah bitter and wrong, what a lovely combination
My point still stands - UKIP has no real experience of government, even at local level. Next year, people will be voting for the next government of the UK. UKIP have not demonstrated that they are credible as a party of government. A protest movement - maybe. But not a party of government that can point to a record of running services well at a local level and being able to say 'Look how well we have done here, give us the chance to show how well we can run the country'
Well UKIP have presided over 1400 less child-molestations than some parties who supposedly have shown their "credibility" in local government, that must be a step in the right direction.
Actually you are very wrong. Volunteer activists want to see the central party folk give them full support when they really need it. They want to feel appreciated and supported for all the many hours of free work that they have given to the party.
I think a lot depends on where they are and what they do. If you were a Tory activist in East Ham as an example, would you actually want to work there or would you realise there are more attractive prospects a tube or bus ride away ?
You don't know how many members and activists Labour has in R&S and where they are. Labour did some work there and to say they "abandoned it without a fight" is absurd. I've argued why they didn't do more. As to what they did and where, I've no knowledge.
I'm sure the candidate was told the score pretty early on - she will either try again in May or perhaps find a better prospect (and having fought the by-election her chances of getting a better seat won't be bad). After all, the Labour candidate in Beaconsfield in 1982 did fairly well for himself, didn't he ?
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
70th Anniversary of VE Day. I doubt it will go down as the start of Victory for Ed Day
There are two Eds in the Labour Cabinet. I think one of them might be quite happy whatever the result.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
Ah bitter and wrong, what a lovely combination
My point still stands - UKIP has no real experience of government, even at local level. Next year, people will be voting for the next government of the UK. UKIP have not demonstrated that they are credible as a party of government. A protest movement - maybe. But not a party of government that can point to a record of running services well at a local level and being able to say 'Look how well we have done here, give us the chance to show how well we can run the country'
Well UKIP have presided over 1400 less child-molestations than some parties who supposedly have shown their "credibility" in local government, that must be a step in the right direction.
Even as a fully paid-up deficit denier, I managed to make it to £35.5bn, by increasing prescription charges, cutting spending on London transport, axing HS2, abolishing the Culture department, choosing all the proposed defence cuts, and selecting all the tax rises except increasing VAT.
However, before I blow too many of my loony leftie points, I'd cancel out most of those savings by spending MORE on health and welfare.
As previously posted my three visits to R and S over the past week revealed a swing back to the Blues and more significantly quite a number of first time Kippers saying they would vote Blue at the GE. The markets now reflect this.
Yes, the margin was much closer last night then many suspected but the turnout was lower than some believed and lower than would be the case at a GE.
I would have thought that lower turnout would suit UKIP? I dont think it's a given (the odds are fairly balanced) but the factors in the Tories' favour here next May are (1) it wont be a byelection (2) the narrative will probably be Dave V Ed for PM and that should concentrate minds / squeeze some votes (3) turnout will be higher (I presume that works against UKIP but maybe I'm wrong). Compared to the by-election I'm struggling to think of what will be much better for Reckless than applied yesterday. Of course he does have a margin to start off with.
....
Those who are not well disposed toward Labour can find something or something retweeted or misquoted to confirm their view. As for how he will perform in an election campaign when he has the opportunity to critique a Government performance which even its stuanchest supporters might argue is not without its flaws, that remains to be seen.
We also have in David Cameron an individual who we know can be brittle under pressure and has been known to throw a wobbly when faced with a line of questionning he doesn't like. He will face some searching and awkward questions about his Government's performance and I suspect some of his bonhomie may crack round the edges.
Its balanced the defence budget after finding a £36 billion black hole.
It surely takes a special kind of idiocy to try and claim that the disastrous cuts to the defence budget should, be praised as 'balancing the defence budget.'
I am sure you could balance the health budget as well by sacking all the nurses. Not sure you would find many people praising you though.
Actually you are very wrong. Volunteer activists want to see the central party folk give them full support when they really need it. They want to feel appreciated and supported for all the many hours of free work that they have given to the party.
I think a lot depends on where they are and what they do. If you were a Tory activist in East Ham as an example, would you actually want to work there or would you realise there are more attractive prospects a tube or bus ride away ? ........
I referred to similar coastal towns. Acts like this kill off local parties. Dead in Medway, and the neighbours look at the future of no central support. So why bother? Now if there were several by elections for parliament on the same day, the stance of Labour HQ would be more understandable. Instead what we had was a mixture of tactically smart, strategically stupid, lazy arrogant politics towards seats that labour should be competing for.
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
Ah bitter and wrong, what a lovely combination
My point still stands - UKIP has no real experience of government, even at local level. Next year, people will be voting for the next government of the UK. UKIP have not demonstrated that they are credible as a party of government. A protest movement - maybe. But not a party of government that can point to a record of running services well at a local level and being able to say 'Look how well we have done here, give us the chance to show how well we can run the country'
Well UKIP have presided over 1400 less child-molestations than some parties who supposedly have shown their "credibility" in local government, that must be a step in the right direction.
Really?
*shakes head*
Can I just point out I am hugely uncomfortable with this line of attack. I do think that the authorities have been shocking in their handling of these events both before and after the report came out but I think effectively tarring everyone in Labour (or any other party) in this way is counterproductive and in the end just plain wrong.
UKIP (or their supporters who follow this line of attack) should be looking for solutions not blame.
Yes, the margin was much closer last night then many suspected but the turnout was lower than some believed and lower than would be the case at a GE.
I would have thought that lower turnout would suit UKIP? I dont think it's a given (the odds are fairly balanced) but the factors in the Tories' favour here next May are (1) it wont be a byelection (2) the narrative will probably be Dave V Ed for PM and that should concentrate minds / squeeze some votes (3) turnout will be higher (I presume that works against UKIP but maybe I'm wrong). Compared to the by-election I'm struggling to think of what will be much better for Reckless than applied yesterday. Of course he does have a margin to start off with.
....
Those who are not well disposed toward Labour can find something or something retweeted or misquoted to confirm their view. As for how he will perform in an election campaign when he has the opportunity to critique a Government performance which even its stuanchest supporters might argue is not without its flaws, that remains to be seen.
We also have in David Cameron an individual who we know can be brittle under pressure and has been known to throw a wobbly when faced with a line of questionning he doesn't like. He will face some searching and awkward questions about his Government's performance and I suspect some of his bonhomie may crack round the edges.
Its balanced the defence budget after finding a £36 billion black hole.
It surely takes a special kind of idiocy to try and claim that the disastrous cuts to the defence budget should, be praised as 'balancing the defence budget.'
I am sure you could balance the health budget as well by sacking all the nurses. Not sure you would find many people praising you though.
It's also true that throwing money at civil servants is no recipe for either good service or balancing the books. Labour have never understood this because for them the public sector exists primarily for the workforce and not the customer.
I have just seen the biggest piece of private bling ever made today. Obviously it would be tasteless to appear to make fun of it or it's owner on a public blog so I'll confine myself to saying that the giant bronze turtle the size of a hellicopter with Michael Jackson sitting on it's back is currently gracing the garden of the late Boris Berezovsky on Cap Ferrat.
Ed Milliband would like it to be known that he finds it moving.
Roger, why Thornberry had to go; ‘The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose [the war] to show them how things are’ Ralph Miliband's diary entry during the blitz.
Yes, the margin was much closer last night then many suspected but the turnout was lower than some believed and lower than would be the case at a GE.
I would have thought that lower turnout would suit UKIP? I dont think it's a given (the odds are fairly balanced) but the factors in the Tories' favour here next May are (1) it wont be a byelection (2) the narrative will probably be Dave V Ed for PM and that should concentrate minds / squeeze some votes (3) turnout will be higher (I presume that works against UKIP but maybe I'm wrong). Compared to the by-election I'm struggling to think of what will be much better for Reckless than applied yesterday. Of course he does have a margin to start off with.
....
Those who are not well disposed toward Labour can find something or something retweeted or misquoted to confirm their view. As for how he will perform in an election campaign when he has the opportunity to critique a Government performance which even its stuanchest supporters might argue is not without its flaws, that remains to be seen.
We also have in David Cameron an individual who we know can be brittle under pressure and has been known to throw a wobbly when faced with a line of questionning he doesn't like. He will face some searching and awkward questions about his Government's performance and I suspect some of his bonhomie may crack round the edges.
Its balanced the defence budget after finding a £36 billion black hole.
It surely takes a special kind of idiocy to try and claim that the disastrous cuts to the defence budget should, be praised as 'balancing the defence budget.'
I am sure you could balance the health budget as well by sacking all the nurses. Not sure you would find many people praising you though.
It's also true that throwing money at civil servants is no recipe for either good service or balancing the books. Labour have never understood this because for them the public sector exists primarily for the workforce and not the customer.
Oh agreed entirely. I feel the same way about all public services. Using them as a sink for employment is entirely the wrong way to view them.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
8th May 2015.
Daniel Hodges omits to mention that Klass War was good for Ed: the public supported his view. The media may have opposed it, but that is a different thing.
No. A few very loud voices supported his view. Most people saw a man out of his depth being batted about by a woman with no political background. If he can't hold his own against that sort of opponent, it is no wonder why he can't cope as leader of a once great party.
Not at all so - even the weight of commentary on the Daily Mail website was against Miss Klass. I believe only one PB poster called this right: Mr Big John Owls. The tyranny of crowds on here did for reasoned analysis I am afraid
It is not about what was said, it is all about how it was handled.
The Labour Party machine went into bully mode. And that is deeply unattractive.
It has been a very bad week for Team Miliband - very bad.
Mylene Klass has the power of Karma on her side. I bet Emily signed one of the petitions against her....
8th May will also see the Nigel Farage "we have won no seats but a great victory" speech. I'm looking forward to that one. I suspect Nick Clegg's will be "we have won no votes but a great victory".
8th May will start with Mr. Farage declaring "I shall be commencing negotiations with the interim Conservative Party leader, with a view to formulating a joint programme for government."
In your dreams maybe. Let us remember that UKIP don't even run a Parish Council - they are not even close to being a party of government.
UKIP run Ramsey town council.
Ah - so they do.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
For the record Ramsey is in Cambridgeshire. It is a bit bigger than the village I live in which is served by a parish council that manages without politics. It's well served by local buses.
The Labour split over Thornberry's departure While some welcomed her effective sacking as ruthless leadership, others have denounced it as panicked and disloyal.
Have to say credit where credit is due Carlotta, as I previously thought you they type who wouldn't post anything as brutally honest about Tory failings as this
The truth sets us free!
For the Conservatives, though, this result is a particular tactical embarrassment. From the moment of Mark Reckless’ defection they had announced their intention to throw the proverbial kitchen sink at the constituency, to punish Reckless for his decision to defect and warn off other potential defections.
Mercifully Comical Ed has provided a welcome distraction today - but it was a (not quite as bad as it could have been, but still) bad result for Con.....
@PBModerator I think this account has been hacked!
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
Actually you are very wrong. Volunteer activists want to see the central party folk give them full support when they really need it. They want to feel appreciated and supported for all the many hours of free work that they have given to the party.
I think a lot depends on where they are and what they do. If you were a Tory activist in East Ham as an example, would you actually want to work there or would you realise there are more attractive prospects a tube or bus ride away ? ........
I referred to similar coastal towns. Acts like this kill off local parties. Dead in Medway, and the neighbours look at the future of no central support. So why bother? Now if there were several by elections for parliament on the same day, the stance of Labour HQ would be more understandable. Instead what we had was a mixture of tactically smart, strategically stupid, lazy arrogant politics towards seats that labour should be competing for.
One or two observations on this having spent all day in Strood yesterday for UKIP.Labour were certainly trying yesterday with doorknockers out and about in Strood but did not have tellers at all of the polling booths as Tories and UKIP did. I assume Labour must have had far fewer people on the ground and vastly inferior GOTV operations.I believe yesterday was a titanic struggle between UKIP and Tories in relation to the GOTV which the Tories did not win despite their huge resource.One question is whether Labour can ever mount the same sort of by-election operation( at least outside London and the North )as UKIP and the Tories if they wanted to.
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
David Cameron handled one of the most significant events of his premiership, the overall majority secured by the SNP in the Holyrood elections, extremely well and in a statesmanlike manner. Not that he will ever get any credit for it from anyone, but compare and contrast.
With regard to the thread sermon by OGH, to say Ukip mismanaged expectations is absurd. One of the main problems a party faces when they have never until very recently had someone win a Westminster seat is that a lot of voters who like them fear to vote for them for fear of wasting their vote on a party that cant win
To not maximise expectations in their position would be suicidal. Sorry pb libdems and tories, Ukip won and won well with one of the biggest byelection swings ever despite not having any councillor base. No amount of spin will disguise that.
Perhaps the question that should be asked is, why did Ed react in the way that he did when he saw Emily T's tweet. After all he could have interpreted it in a different way and acknowledged that by using the brevity of twitter, she was obliged to leave out some explanatory words.
It is highly probable that he interpreted it in the way that he did purely because his interpretation was in reality his own thoughts and reaction to that picture if he had been there.
So he felt that as he did not want the public to read his true thoughts, then he must slap down Emily T for being a bad girl and so move the limelight (and blame) onto her and hope the public applauds Ed for his standing up for the flag-van man - even though Ed would not want to go near him or be pictured with him or any of his ilk.
Having then got involved (which he should not have done) then he cannot let the matter drop and continue to dig an ever deepening hole so that the spoil threatens to envelop him.
The defence budget is still huge by international standards. The massive over commitment by Labour is why programmes had to be cut - the Nimrod programme that had delivered nothing at 2 billion cost over 10 years. We have reconnaissance planes that work now. We are building 2 huge aircraft carriers and procuring exotic jets to fly off them to project British power. We have a fully funded rather than fanciful equipment procurement programme of some 160 billion that among other things is going to deliver hundreds and eventually thousands of armoured fighting vehicles. There are other more boring projects like the £600 million Sensor Support Optimisation Project will provide a decade of maintenance and repair for 17 different systems across the Royal Navy. We have already started work on replacing Trident. You make yourself look even more idiotically absurd by talking about disastrous cuts. The defence budget in 2010 was £42 billion. In 2014 its £44 billion. Compare all this with 500,000 fewer local govt workers - oh no you want to forget that and pretend it like all the other things never happened.
If,speaking theoretically,an MP was forced to resign in the next month would there be a by-election do you think or would the seat be left open until May?
One or two observations on this having spent all day in Strood yesterday for UKIP.Labour were certainly trying yesterday with doorknockers out and about in Strood but did not have tellers at all of the polling booths as Tories and UKIP did. I assume Labour must have had far fewer people on the ground and vastly inferior GOTV operations.I believe yesterday was a titanic struggle between UKIP and Tories in relation to the GOTV which the Tories did not win despite their huge resource.One question is whether Labour can ever mount the same sort of by-election operation( at least outside London and the North )as UKIP and the Tories if they wanted to.
Thanks, your Princeness. I think what I'd need to know is whether they had any tellers in Labour-held Wards in the constituency or whether they simply didn't bother. I agree it sounds as though they had fewer people than UKIP or the Conservatives but they had a GOTV operation based on a limited canvass identifying known supporters. The final result suggests they didn't do too badly and constrasts with some of the 10% talk from earlier in the morning.
All parties have their areas of strength and weakness - I live in Newham. In the local elections, Labour were the only party canvassing with up to a dozen people out every night. The others had ones and twos and on polling day Labour were everywhere.
If,speaking theoretically,an MP was forced to resign in the next month would there be a by-election do you think or would the seat be left open until May?
I think there would legally be time for one, but there is a convention of some sort that seats made vacant close to a general election aren't put up for a by-election.
So I am sat here reading this evening's paper and the front page story is about a disaster for the government in Kent. Having spent much of my afternoon on here I was expecting Ed to be the big story!
The defence budget is still huge by international standards. The massive over commitment by Labour is why programmes had to be cut - the Nimrod programme that had delivered nothing at 2 billion cost over 10 years. We have reconnaissance planes that work now. We are building 2 huge aircraft carriers and procuring exotic jets to fly off them to project British power. We have a fully funded rather than fanciful equipment procurement programme of some 160 billion that among other things is going to deliver hundreds and eventually thousands of armoured fighting vehicles. There are other more boring projects like the £600 million Sensor Support Optimisation Project will provide a decade of maintenance and repair for 17 different systems across the Royal Navy. We have already started work on replacing Trident. You make yourself look even more idiotically absurd by talking about disastrous cuts. The defence budget in 2010 was £42 billion. In 2014 its £44 billion. Compare all this with 500,000 fewer local govt workers - oh no you want to forget that and pretend it like all the other things never happened.
You realise there was inflation between 2010 and 2014, right?
When people like Bob Gates are saying we're no longer a serious partner because of defence cuts, you know things are serious.
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
David Cameron handled one of the most significant events of his premiership, the overall majority secured by the SNP in the Holyrood elections, extremely well and in a statesmanlike manner. Not that he will ever get any credit for it from anyone, but compare and contrast.
I wonder what would do happen happen if Sturgeon calls one in the aftermath of an SNP majority in 2016. What would Weatminster do?
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
David Cameron handled one of the most significant events of his premiership, the overall majority secured by the SNP in the Holyrood elections, extremely well and in a statesmanlike manner. Not that he will ever get any credit for it from anyone, but compare and contrast.
I wonder what would do happen happen if Sturgeon calls one in the aftermath of an SNP majority in 2016. What would Weatminster do?
If it is a manifesto commitment by the parties controlling a majority in Holyrood, Westminster should agree, however tiresome it might be to have to do the whole damn thing all over again.
So I am sat here reading this evening's paper and the front page story is about a disaster for the government in Kent. Having spent much of my afternoon on here I was expecting Ed to be the big story!
A ukip win was priced in to our conversations a while back. This flag story is new!
One or two observations on this having spent all day in Strood yesterday for UKIP.Labour were certainly trying yesterday with doorknockers out and about in Strood but did not have tellers at all of the polling booths as Tories and UKIP did. I assume Labour must have had far fewer people on the ground and vastly inferior GOTV operations.I believe yesterday was a titanic struggle between UKIP and Tories in relation to the GOTV which the Tories did not win despite their huge resource.One question is whether Labour can ever mount the same sort of by-election operation( at least outside London and the North )as UKIP and the Tories if they wanted to.
Thanks, your Princeness. I think what I'd need to know is whether they had any tellers in Labour-held Wards in the constituency or whether they simply didn't bother. I agree it sounds as though they had fewer people than UKIP or the Conservatives but they had a GOTV operation based on a limited canvass identifying known supporters. The final result suggests they didn't do too badly and constrasts with some of the 10% talk from earlier in the morning.
All parties have their areas of strength and weakness - I live in Newham. In the local elections, Labour were the only party canvassing with up to a dozen people out every night. The others had ones and twos and on polling day Labour were everywhere.
<.</p>
Thanks, your Princeness. I think what I'd need to know is whether they had any tellers in Labour-held Wards in the constituency or whether they simply didn't bother. I agree it sounds as though they had fewer people than UKIP or the Conservatives but they had a GOTV operation based on a limited canvass identifying known supporters. The final result suggests they didn't do too badly and constrasts with some of the 10% talk from earlier in the morning.
All parties have their areas of strength and weakness - I live in Newham. In the local elections, Labour were the only party canvassing with up to a dozen people out every night. The others had ones and twos and on polling day Labour were everywhere.
Yes agreed.I certainly was in a Labour held ward but do not have complete info on this.Interesting that NF hashighlighted how well UKIP did in Strood compared to Rochester.
So I am sat here reading this evening's paper and the front page story is about a disaster for the government in Kent. Having spent much of my afternoon on here I was expecting Ed to be the big story!
Have you counted up the comments yet and has Ed got public support for sacking one of his closest allies?
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
David Cameron handled one of the most significant events of his premiership, the overall majority secured by the SNP in the Holyrood elections, extremely well and in a statesmanlike manner. Not that he will ever get any credit for it from anyone, but compare and contrast.
I wonder what would do happen happen if Sturgeon calls one in the aftermath of an SNP majority in 2016. What would Weatminster do?
If it is a manifesto commitment by the parties controlling a majority in Holyrood, Westminster should agree, however tiresome it might be to have to do the whole damn thing all over again.
You just made me cry a little on the inside... I'm clearly a big jessie!!
Perhaps the question that should be asked is, why did Ed react in the way that he did when he saw Emily T's tweet. After all he could have interpreted it in a different way and acknowledged that by using the brevity of twitter, she was obliged to leave out some explanatory words.
It is highly probable that he interpreted it in the way that he did purely because his interpretation was in reality his own thoughts and reaction to that picture if he had been there.
So he felt that as he did not want the public to read his true thoughts, then he must slap down Emily T for being a bad girl and so move the limelight (and blame) onto her and hope the public applauds Ed for his standing up for the flag-van man - even though Ed would not want to go near him or be pictured with him or any of his ilk.
Having then got involved (which he should not have done) then he cannot let the matter drop and continue to dig an ever deepening hole so that the spoil threatens to envelop him.
Not really, Miliband will have only seen it after the press furore - so if anyone was projecting their prejudices on to the Tweet it was the journos (and rather unhelpfully some of Labour's MPs), many of whom probably have opinions much closer to Ms Thornberry than they'd like to admit. After all wasn't it mentioned in court the other day that Sun hacks allegedly called its readers 'plebs', and after The Mail's decade long pontification on the subject of 'Chavs' they can't exactly lecture anyone on sneering at the working class.
Thornberry herself made the fatal error by confirming the prejudiced interpretation of the Tweet to The Mail with a bizarre apology, long before things had got to the 'leader dressing down' stage. From then on he was fairly stuffed, as The Sun were always going to pull a stunt like they have today and saying 'I didn't see how it was prejudiced' would've been a complete bloodbath.
It still doesn't reflect particularly well on Ed BTW, as the very fact that it could be blown up into such a mess is a rather damning indictment of how a fairly important section of the population view Labour under him, but suggesting that it was him who interpreted the Tweet in that way, thus revealing his own prejudices is utterly ludicrous. Any chance of interpreting it differently had skipped merrily out the England flag draped window by the time he was reportedly on the phone to Thornberry.
I cried buckets of laughter at Blackbusters. It's timing was so perfect given it was just after Diane Abbott's claims about non-White people's values. And a is nowhere near o on the keyboard.
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 6m6 minutes ago London, England Bacon sandwich. Gareth. Ukip-Lite. 2p for the homeless. Fireworks Night plot. Dark forces re-launch. Klass War. VanGate. Where does it end?
If,speaking theoretically,an MP was forced to resign in the next month would there be a by-election do you think or would the seat be left open until May?
I think there would legally be time for one, but there is a convention of some sort that seats made vacant close to a general election aren't put up for a by-election.
Yes that is the issue I think though my understanding is that there is nothing written in stone on it in terms of a cut-off date .Christmas becomes a factor of course so I suspect it wouldn't happen.
I have to say that Ed seems to have gone totally over the top and that tweet was most certainly not a resigning matter.
Treading on tiptoe all the time for fear of causing offence is one of our political elites worst vices and one that Fargle is showing up all the time.
I actually think the worst and most insensitive thing she did on that tweet was publish the poor guys van registration number. If that was my van I would be quite cross about that.
I remain to be convinced that Nigel's poor expectations management does benefit the Tories. I really can't see any mechanism by which it might benefit them at all.
She's clearly focussing on the priorities for Argentina!
I actually did a double-take when I first read it: I thought it might be some sort of spoof.
Argentina's leaders are becoming seriously deluded. Also, this passage is slightly chilling - I don't want to break Godwin's law but, err, y'know what I mean:
“It is directed not only at the foreigner who comes here as a tourist or visits our country, but also at the citizens in general, and will serve to reinforce our history, our culture and our identity.”
Why do the Argentina government feel the need to direct propaganda towards their own citizens to 'reinforce' their views and identity?
Is Argentina a democracy or isn't it? Why don't the Argentine people reject this obsession and borderline demagoguery and vote this government out?
I will not be going to Argentina until it ends its unpleasant obsession with the Falklands. Quite aside from my own views on the matter, I'm not sure that, if you're British, it's safe.
On defence, those who take an interest might like to know that I recently received a questionairre from the Conservatives asking what my "top three" concerns were. Defence wasn't even an option on the list, so I didn't bother.
I also wrote to my (Conservative) MP asking for an answer on Conservative party policy on defence almost a month ago. I am yet to receive any acknowledgement or answer.
Comments
He just can't point at shadow cabinet members and sack them......
Had Labour worked the seat there were logically one of two outcomes: either they would still have finished third maybe with 20-25 % or the Conservatives would have sneaked home and a Conservative victory over UKIP doesn't work well for Labour.
In politics sometime, the only choice is which of your opponents you gain most from winning. Yes, UKIP may be a problem for Labour in some areas but it's a much bigger problem for the Conservatives. Labour made a political calculation (probably the correct one) in that keeping UKIP as a viable political force does the Conservatives more harm next year than it does them.
Time will tell if that is a reasonable strategy.
Wouldn't work. Hettie would still manage to get a black van elected.
By-elections after a defection don't show the true level of support for the party - just as Euro elections don't.
What matters are local government elections and Westminster elections. And UKIP have not made a breakthrough there.
Anorak - urban liberals are good people and a key group - why shouldn't they have a party that represents them? Why does this site despise them so much? I find it awkwardly odd myself
Polling versus your opinion
Now why did anyone in Labour think that a protege of Gordon Brown would make a good Leader?
I assume that this was all above board.
My apologies.
A clear platform for future success there. One town council (which actually has the same powers as a parish council).
Remind me how this has created greater success in the three years since they took power so spectacularly there....
I should start a petition to ban PB tories - go on you know you want to:) Very!
What you pull is something else.
http://survation.com/rochester-strood-analysis-by-survations-patrick-brione/
https://twitter.com/_laticfanatic/status/155291654167867393
Still makes me laugh. Aside from the misspelling, the sentiment was about as authentic as his "respect" for white vans....
Perhaps "throwing the kitchen sink" and failing isn't that good for morale either.
"The fact that the final UKIP margin of victory was less than that shown in all four polls has led some commentators attempting to portray the result as some sort of success for the Conservative Party, but of course had there been no polling published during the campaign period, today would almost certainly be being viewed as a devastating blow to originally hopeful Conservative plans for defeating Mark Reckless and deterring further defections"
Have to say credit where credit is due Carlotta, as I previously thought you they type who wouldn't post anything as brutally honest about Tory failings as this
I was slightly in jest hence the Nick Clegg comment - this site becomes too serious and partisan on days like this. Back in the days when the civilised members of our cohort would commune on the balcony of the National Liberal Club, enjoy the summer air, a hearty repast and discuss matters of moment.
Far better than the back of a London boozer though again more in keeping with Nigel who I do hope makes a nod to his scholastic past by reciting part of his post-election speech in Latin and dropping in the odd "Pueri Alleynienses" reference.
By the by, I also heard Michael Gove say that the Tories had asked Boris to keep away from R&S because of his support for an estaury airport which they feared wouldn't go down well in the Constituency - slightly surprising given the possibility of thousands of new jobs for the area.
Ed Milliband would like it to be known that he finds it moving.
If he became PM the continual clusterfucks would provide great entertainment and betting opportunities and best of all I wouldn't suffer too much not living in the UK!
I can report that I haven't noticed any St George's Flags close to the Stretford End.
twitter.com/SuzanneEvans1/status/535799282725842946
For the Conservatives, though, this result is a particular tactical embarrassment. From the moment of Mark Reckless’ defection they had announced their intention to throw the proverbial kitchen sink at the constituency, to punish Reckless for his decision to defect and warn off other potential defections.
Mercifully Comical Ed has provided a welcome distraction today - but it was a (not quite as bad as it could have been, but still) bad result for Con.....
It has reformed health education welfare pensions local government. It has cut massively from the public payroll.
It is saving £2 billion by cutting quangos. £2.6 billion by 2015. In the last four years, a total of 185 quangos have been abolished, whilst 165 bodies were merged into 70.
Its balanced the defence budget after finding a £36 billion black hole.
It proposes a referendum in 2017.
Its easy to rabbit on with the received 'wisdom' of the usual suspects but the facts are the govt have not done badly and we have record numbers in employment, we have falling unemployment and low inflation and good growth of GDP. Over half a million fewer local authority workers. If tax receipts are low its because there has been a big increase in allowances.
Only a fool would criticise any government for not being perfect but the govt have a record that can be defended with relative ease.
I do wonder at your ability to be so completely wrong on so many subjects at the same time. It takes a special kind of idiocy.
You don't know how many members and activists Labour has in R&S and where they are. Labour did some work there and to say they "abandoned it without a fight" is absurd. I've argued why they didn't do more. As to what they did and where, I've no knowledge.
I'm sure the candidate was told the score pretty early on - she will either try again in May or perhaps find a better prospect (and having fought the by-election her chances of getting a better seat won't be bad). After all, the Labour candidate in Beaconsfield in 1982 did fairly well for himself, didn't he ?
*shakes head*
http://www.ft.com/ig/sites/2014/deficit-calculator/
Even as a fully paid-up deficit denier, I managed to make it to £35.5bn, by increasing prescription charges, cutting spending on London transport, axing HS2, abolishing the Culture department, choosing all the proposed defence cuts, and selecting all the tax rises except increasing VAT.
However, before I blow too many of my loony leftie points, I'd cancel out most of those savings by spending MORE on health and welfare.
I am sure you could balance the health budget as well by sacking all the nurses. Not sure you would find many people praising you though.
UKIP (or their supporters who follow this line of attack) should be looking for solutions not blame.
http://survation.com/rochester-strood-analysis-by-survations-patrick-brione/
According to this survey, Cameron and the Tories have suffered a heavy defeat
"I can report that I haven't noticed any St George's Flags close to the Stretford End."
I hope it wasn't you who decided to write with your sray can;
"Park Park, where ever you may be,
You eat dogs in your own country,
But your not as bad as the
Scouse,
Eating rats in their Council house"
Now that's tasteless.....
‘The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose [the war] to show them how things are’
Ralph Miliband's diary entry during the blitz.
It's well served by local buses.
The Labour split over Thornberry's departure
While some welcomed her effective sacking as ruthless leadership, others have denounced it as panicked and disloyal.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/labour-split-over-thornberrys-departure
The Spanish attorney general has charged Catalan president Artur Mas with disobedience, perverting the course of justice, misuse of public funds and abuse of power in relation to the unofficial referendum on independence held on 9 November.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/21/catalan-president-face-several-charges-after-unofficial-independence-referendum
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/11243227/Argentina-rules-all-public-transport-must-state-The-Falklands-are-Argentina.html
"Actually, yes, it is all about Ed:"
Of his diiminishing USP's being reasonably nice was amongst the most important. I think he lost that today
But collectively, they form a compelling impression of a hapless and pratfalling goon in the Frank Spenser mould.
To not maximise expectations in their position would be suicidal. Sorry pb libdems and tories, Ukip won and won well with one of the biggest byelection swings ever despite not having any councillor base. No amount of spin will disguise that.
It is highly probable that he interpreted it in the way that he did purely because his interpretation was in reality his own thoughts and reaction to that picture if he had been there.
So he felt that as he did not want the public to read his true thoughts, then he must slap down Emily T for being a bad girl and so move the limelight (and blame) onto her and hope the public applauds Ed for his standing up for the flag-van man - even though Ed would not want to go near him or be pictured with him or any of his ilk.
Having then got involved (which he should not have done) then he cannot let the matter drop and continue to dig an ever deepening hole so that the spoil threatens to envelop him.
The defence budget under Labour was a shambles
The defence budget is still huge by international standards. The massive over commitment by Labour is why programmes had to be cut - the Nimrod programme that had delivered nothing at 2 billion cost over 10 years. We have reconnaissance planes that work now.
We are building 2 huge aircraft carriers and procuring exotic jets to fly off them to project British power. We have a fully funded rather than fanciful equipment procurement programme of some 160 billion that among other things is going to deliver hundreds and eventually thousands of armoured fighting vehicles. There are other more boring projects like the £600 million Sensor Support Optimisation Project will provide a decade of maintenance and repair for 17 different systems across the Royal Navy.
We have already started work on replacing Trident.
You make yourself look even more idiotically absurd by talking about disastrous cuts. The defence budget in 2010 was £42 billion. In 2014 its £44 billion.
Compare all this with 500,000 fewer local govt workers - oh no you want to forget that and pretend it like all the other things never happened.
A man went to Old Trafford for a laugh, came out in stitches.
All parties have their areas of strength and weakness - I live in Newham. In the local elections, Labour were the only party canvassing with up to a dozen people out every night. The others had ones and twos and on polling day Labour were everywhere.
When people like Bob Gates are saying we're no longer a serious partner because of defence cuts, you know things are serious.
" The defence budget in 2010 was £42 billion. In 2014 its £44 billion."
Those are not figures that I would normally recognise. Do you have a source, please?
http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/2mwpei/heres_the_new_map_of_france_that_the_french/cm8bb7w
All parties have their areas of strength and weakness - I live in Newham. In the local elections, Labour were the only party canvassing with up to a dozen people out every night. The others had ones and twos and on polling day Labour were everywhere.
Yes agreed.I certainly was in a Labour held ward but do not have complete info on this.Interesting that NF hashighlighted how well UKIP did in Strood compared to Rochester.
Thornberry herself made the fatal error by confirming the prejudiced interpretation of the Tweet to The Mail with a bizarre apology, long before things had got to the 'leader dressing down' stage. From then on he was fairly stuffed, as The Sun were always going to pull a stunt like they have today and saying 'I didn't see how it was prejudiced' would've been a complete bloodbath.
It still doesn't reflect particularly well on Ed BTW, as the very fact that it could be blown up into such a mess is a rather damning indictment of how a fairly important section of the population view Labour under him, but suggesting that it was him who interpreted the Tweet in that way, thus revealing his own prejudices is utterly ludicrous. Any chance of interpreting it differently had skipped merrily out the England flag draped window by the time he was reportedly on the phone to Thornberry.
Treading on tiptoe all the time for fear of causing offence is one of our political elites worst vices and one that Fargle is showing up all the time.
I actually think the worst and most insensitive thing she did on that tweet was publish the poor guys van registration number. If that was my van I would be quite cross about that.
Argentina's leaders are becoming seriously deluded. Also, this passage is slightly chilling - I don't want to break Godwin's law but, err, y'know what I mean:
“It is directed not only at the foreigner who comes here as a tourist or visits our country, but also at the citizens in general, and will serve to reinforce our history, our culture and our identity.”
Why do the Argentina government feel the need to direct propaganda towards their own citizens to 'reinforce' their views and identity?
Is Argentina a democracy or isn't it? Why don't the Argentine people reject this obsession and borderline demagoguery and vote this government out?
I will not be going to Argentina until it ends its unpleasant obsession with the Falklands. Quite aside from my own views on the matter, I'm not sure that, if you're British, it's safe.
I also wrote to my (Conservative) MP asking for an answer on Conservative party policy on defence almost a month ago. I am yet to receive any acknowledgement or answer.
I do not take that as a good sign.