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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The big question is what’s happening in Britain’s Ohio, Flo

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  • Socrates said:

    ***US Elections***

    One of the Democrat candidates has been killed in a traffic accident - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/house-candidate-killed_n_6097496.html

    He was standing for a seat in Oklahoma, and was expected to lose. Under US election law, what happens next?

    Would be down to Oklahoma law, not US law.
    Oklahoma laws are a type of US law. Pedantry aside, can you answer the question?

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Mr. Indigo, thanks very much for the links. I have mixed feelings about the proposal. It's hard to decide whether, on the one hand, it's incredibly stupid and unworkable or, on the other, it's an affront to liberty and wide open to abuse by the police/politicians, as we've seen with RIPA being used against the press.

    For ****'s sake. Are they going to have a special agent watching every single lunatic in need of a shave and a shag in case they try tweeting something?

    The other day I was pushed for time, but tempted to 'threaten' to crucify Mr. Eagles on Twitter for his silliness. Not hard to imagine someone (or even two friends mocking one another) getting barred from doing so.

    The later I think. I would be highly surprised if anything related to command and control went anywhere near facebook and twitter, where the working assumption would be that all the security services will be watching you and looking for useful information. That sort of information is far more likely to be hidden in the "DarkNet" or just using good old fashioned face to face couriers/dead drops etc. There might be some room for suggesting that malcontents are using social media for advertising and recruitment purposes, but its not like its hard to publish that sort of stuff from an anonymous account in a cybercafe if you are so inclined - most of this stuff is in Tom Clancy novels, so I am sure the real bad guys have worked it out.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Morning all and the question this morning is, does Norman Baker face being the MP for Lose next May rather than Lewes? I doubt a single Tory voter will shed a tear over his departure.

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    In addition for all the smug city types, the ruling would apply to gym memberships, subsidised childcare, company cars and all the other perks London centric types take for granted so lots of them could lose their jobs too. The only solution will be emergency legislation to prevent any backdating.

    What a load of drivel , employers do not grant overtime to hundreds of thousands of employees , they have work that needs doing and it is better for them to pay overtime than employing extra people on a permanent basis .
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    ***US Elections***

    One of the Democrat candidates has been killed in a traffic accident - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/house-candidate-killed_n_6097496.html

    He was standing for a seat in Oklahoma, and was expected to lose. Under US election law, what happens next?

    Would be down to Oklahoma law, not US law.
    Oklahoma laws are a type of US law. Pedantry aside, can you answer the question?

    I wasn't meaning to be pedantic. My point was that it's hard to know, because there isn't one law for the whole US. You'd have to have detailed knowledge of the specifics of Oklahoma election law, which I doubt exists in this country, even among the knowledgeable folk on PB.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    You're like those people who go abroad, spend the whole time on their phones, then whinge to high heaven when the bill comes in inclusive of all those roaming charges.

    You just want to scream: read the contract you signed, stupid.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Freggles said:

    You seem to be comparing Apples with Oranges. The average US state has roughly the same population as twice that of Wales, or 1.5 times that of Scotland. Indeed, California is only a few million short of the population of England! If the UK constituencies were that big, then polling would be undertaken in each constituency as a matter of course; as it is, the number of constituencies you would have to individually poll to get any kind of representative result is huge.

    A conservative estimate of 50 seats, at 1000 people polled per seat, means that 50,000 people would have to be phoned up (the only way you can be sure that these people live in the constituency) every week - or perhaps every day close to the vote - and that's if you've guessed the right seats to poll in. On top of that, each seat is only 1/650th of the entire result.

    The national poll model isn't perfect, but applying a UNS isn't supposed to tell you what the results will be in individual seats, it's supposed to give you an idea of the national result (and you can make the adjustments for seats like Bradford West, Brighton Pavillon, or Clacton as you see fit).

    The thing is, there's always "safe" seats that change hands and "marginal" seats that refuse to budge, but taking a guess on which seat will do what is not a good basis to work out who's likely to form the next government. In comparison to the US, in absolute terms, every UK seat is marginal.

    But Ashcroft's polls look at the constituencies as a whole, in same way that a national poll looks at while country. As long as the sample is random enough but representative, it's fine.

    Has anyone recanted their criticism of Ed Miliband for allegedly giving 2p to a beggar when the beggar has said it was 70p and he was the only one in the group to give?
    Oh wait, it was just an excuse to criticise Ed and any pretext will do....
    Labour spinners were claiming it was about £2.

    They just cant help themselves can they?

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Morning all and the question this morning is, does Norman Baker face being the MP for Lose next May rather than Lewes? I doubt a single Tory voter will shed a tear over his departure.

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    In addition for all the smug city types, the ruling would apply to gym memberships, subsidised childcare, company cars and all the other perks London centric types take for granted so lots of them could lose their jobs too. The only solution will be emergency legislation to prevent any backdating.

    What a load of drivel , employers do not grant overtime to hundreds of thousands of employees , they have work that needs doing and it is better for them to pay overtime than employing extra people on a permanent basis .
    "The government estimates that one-sixth of the 30.8 million people in work get paid overtime. This means around five million workers could be entitled to more holiday pay."
  • Indigo said:

    Freggles said:


    Has anyone recanted their criticism of Ed Miliband for allegedly giving 2p to a beggar when the beggar has said it was 70p and he was the only one in the group to give?
    Oh wait, it was just an excuse to criticise Ed and any pretext will do....

    No, because the 2p was besides the point. It was an obviously posed stunt, one of the photographers is even in some of the shots. Even with it being a posed stunt he still managed to look awkward and ill at ease. Even if he had looked suave and debonair it doesn't alter the fact that he was encouraging begging contrary to the Vagrancy Act (as mentioned by the GMP), and the girl was under aged and should be in school. He also managed to open the can of worms of homes full of immigrants pulling in more benefits than pensioners that have being paying contributions their whole working life - but apart from that it went quite well I think...

    Probably a little unfair. OMG, do I ignore this beggar? Think of the headlines. Lose-lose situation.
    I'd expect that a politician would be able to talk to the beggar, find out a bit about them, engage with reality.
    I didn't say that Ed was a good politician, I was taking issue with Indigo who had said it was staged.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    ***US Elections***

    One of the Democrat candidates has been killed in a traffic accident - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/house-candidate-killed_n_6097496.html

    He was standing for a seat in Oklahoma, and was expected to lose. Under US election law, what happens next?

    Subject to State law, I would expect him to stay on the ballot and the election to proceed. If "elected", there would be a special election (by-election) at a later date.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    You're like those people who go abroad, spend the whole time on their phones, then whinge to high heaven when the bill comes in inclusive of all those roaming charges.

    You just want to scream: read the contract you signed, stupid.
    You were the first one to have a go at the banks' predatory behaviour when they burrow punitive terms in the small print.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    And oil-burning engines have become the method of transport of choice for terrorists but Shell and BP are "in denial" about the scale of the problem. And toothpaste is their method of oral hygiene of choice but Colgate ... and so on.


  • Socrates said:

    My point was that it's hard to know, because there isn't one law for the whole US. You'd have to have detailed knowledge of the specifics of Oklahoma election law, which I doubt exists in this country, even among the knowledgeable folk on PB.

    Fair enough.

    It doesn't seem to have been a close race, so the death shouldn't have any effect on the result, but if the election in that seat has to be re-run, it will get a bit more prominence.

    Also, there are already people suggesting that the accident was staged, in the comments on the article I linked below. That's an absurd suggestion, of course, which some Republican commentators may seize on, in an attempt to imply the Democrats are full of conspiracy theorists, though actually both parties have supporters like that.
  • Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Here's a summary of what it's all about:

    http://www.out-law.com/en/topics/employment/pay-and-benefits/holiday-pay-claims/
  • Socrates said:

    My point was that it's hard to know, because there isn't one law for the whole US. You'd have to have detailed knowledge of the specifics of Oklahoma election law, which I doubt exists in this country, even among the knowledgeable folk on PB.

    Fair enough.

    It doesn't seem to have been a close race, so the death shouldn't have any effect on the result, but if the election in that seat has to be re-run, it will get a bit more prominence.

    Also, there are already people suggesting that the accident was staged, in the comments on the article I linked below. That's an absurd suggestion, of course, which some Republican commentators may seize on, in an attempt to imply the Democrats are full of conspiracy theorists, though actually both parties have supporters like that.
    As does PB.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    You're like those people who go abroad, spend the whole time on their phones, then whinge to high heaven when the bill comes in inclusive of all those roaming charges.

    You just want to scream: read the contract you signed, stupid.
    You were the first one to have a go at the banks' predatory behaviour when they burrow punitive terms in the small print.
    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.
  • Most people feel awkward around a beggar whether they give or not. In this case I don't see how Edward reacted any different to anyone else.

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    Most people feel awkward around a beggar whether they give or not. In this case I don't see how Edward reacted any different to anyone else.

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well said. On both counts.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    You're like those people who go abroad, spend the whole time on their phones, then whinge to high heaven when the bill comes in inclusive of all those roaming charges.

    You just want to scream: read the contract you signed, stupid.
    It's a very one-sided contract, and one that the other side can change at will.
  • Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    Whatever one might think of the budgetary procedure of the EU, they are not changing the rules as they go along, or making random extra demands. They are simply following the established and agreed rules.

    Of course, if one prefers not to be part of a club where the payment terms are so uncertain that they can lurch around by >£1bn at a time then this process will be distressing. I must say - as a Euro-enthusiast in general - that I think this budgetary procedure is a farce, and I think very little of the politicians who agreed to it.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited November 2014

    RobD's latest opinion poll Tory lead graph has it as a dead heat, with Labour continuing their recent relatively sharp decline.

    The trend seems to be pointing towards a 2-4 point Tory lead by May 2015.

    Ashcroft had 5 of the Tory Top 40 marginals escaping Labour (Pudsey, Gloucester, Yarmouth, Thurrock and Sth Thanet) even when they were sitting on 5-8.5% swings.

    The swing has further declined and all of the following were within 4 for the Tories before Labour's post conference poll slump;

    Nuneaton, Halesowen, Brighton Kemptown, Lincoln, Stockton South, Southampton Itchen, Amber Valley, Morecambe and Lunesdale.



  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534
    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    It's a truly dire proposal. On its own, it's sufficient reason for me to have left the Conservative Party.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited November 2014
    Sky: Man arrested in Cornwall on suspicion of preparing act of terror...
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?



  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Mr. Socrates, my priority is to cost Balls his seat.

    However, this does weigh in the scales against the Conservatives.

    Your best chance of that might be voting UKIP...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well quite, its like the whole #FreeOurGirls thing a few months ago. T-shirts and twitter tags are a nice painless way of the liberal chattering classes showing that they "care" without actually having to get off their asses and do anything about the problem. Everyone can feel they are "making a difference", everyone can show the world their self righteousness, everyone can tell their friends at dinner parties that they "took action", everyone gets nice feeling of adequacy as they group hug on social media, whilst actually not risking or doing a damn thing that matters.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,534

    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?



    If a terrorist group was sufficiently stupid as to discuss its plans on Facebook, I'd hope the security forces could track them down before their attack was carried out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624


    The US signed up to NAFTA and the WTO under the Democrats. WTO membership obliges the US to accept rulings made by bodies that are based outside the US and which regularly force the US to change its domestic laws.

    http://www.economyincrisis.net/sites/all/pdf/WTOstudyEIC.pdf

    Furthermore, NAFTA disallows Canada and Mexico from having product standards that discriminate against products made to US regulations, with the effect that Canadian and Mexican regulatory bodies are becoming shells. Everything being built in North America is being made to US standards now, and (legally) there is nothing the Canadians or the Mexican can do.

    It's as if we joined the EU, and were forced to accept all German product standards and were disallowed from having our own standards for (say) fire extinguishers.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?

    And if they drove down the road in a car and we hadn't taken simple steps to stop them buying petrol, how would we feel.

    Even on its own terms its nonsense, firstly because its far too easy to circumvent any reasonable control, and secondly because there are far too many alternatives should such control be strong enough to work. Its worth noting how regularly the chinese firewall is circumvented and that in a regime that has access to any powers and controls it wants.
  • Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    List of banks that required bailing out by the UK taxpayer:

    Royal Bank of Scotland
    Lloyds-TSB
    Bradford & Bingley
    Northern Rock

    Would you like to remind me which of these institutions was a casino bank?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?

    OK. But pre-Facebook they would have done exactly the same thing, only planning it by post/telephone. The IRA did OK without twitter. The point about Facebook etc isn't that they facilitate terrorism, it's that they facilitate snooping. It worries me that the security services seek to demonise innocent and beneficial technology in order to extend their own empires.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:

    The photographers saw an opportunity to get a good shot. Simple as that.

    It's amazing that several press photographers were able to get pin sharp shots of a completely spontaneous and random event by Ed, when there is not a single press shot of the PM being accosted by a jogger.

    whoever came up with the idea - 'Hey let's find a beggar and give her 2p without checking how old she is.' - should be fired.

    On that we are agreed
    http://action4equalityscotland.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/2p-or-not-2p.html

    "Whatever the sum involved I think it would be better if politicians stayed well away from these cheap publicity stunts because they always end up looking completely mad and contrived.
    "

  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.

    Banks did what they were legally obliged to do (act in the best interests of their shareholders, Companies Act 2006) using powers granted to them freely by the government, most notably those enacted by the member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.

    Are you yearning for that golden age somewhere in the past when everything was better?
  • Mr. Pulpstar, I'm yet to be convinced of that, but the idiocy from the Conservatives today makes me more willing to take that risk if I think it's likelier for the purples than the blues to beat Balls.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited November 2014
    Sean_F said:

    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?



    If a terrorist group was sufficiently stupid as to discuss its plans on Facebook, I'd hope the security forces could track them down before their attack was carried out.
    Yup. It would never occur to the baddies to use code words.

    And that's me done for this morning...

  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    rcs1000 said:

    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    List of banks that required bailing out by the UK taxpayer:

    Royal Bank of Scotland
    HBOS
    Bradford & Bingley
    Northern Rock

    Would you like to remind me which of these institutions was a casino bank?
    Fixed that for you. Lloyds-TSB only required a bail out following their purchase of HBOS which was allowed purely to ensure HBOS didn't die
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Socrates said:

    http://news.sky.com/story/1366257/henning-murder-turned-tide-on-is-recruitment

    If true, and it seems to be backed up, this is a huge breakthrough in the fight against extremism.

    (I'll ignore the inevitable tirade from Sorecrates)

    No tirade - just a quote and single comment from me:

    Mr Samuel said the "grotesque" beheading of US journalists James Foley and Steven Sotloff in August and September led the Muslim community to start to seriously question IS.

    I guess they were ok with the genocide and mass rape then...

    All to do with the "vast majority blah blah blah".
    I disagree.
    I think a significant proportion are in favour or view as legitimate terror attacks. In a Tel Aviv McDonalds. Or against "crusaders" in Afghansitan, Iraq, etc.

    Anyone remember the Palestinian women ululating as news of 9/11 came through?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Freggles said:

    Scott_P said:

    Freggles said:

    I know Ed isn't graceful but look at that photo. You think that's a well planned, posed shot?

    You think the photographer kneeling down to get a close up of the cup didn't know Ed was going to "spontaneously" give her some cash?
    How do you know that happened before? In any case does it take long to kneel down?

    Everyone is looking for a bacon sandwich moment. You think the Mail are interested in running pre planned Miliband puff pieces? It's not like we're taking about, say, Clegg and the Guardian
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ed-miliband-no-photo-opps-labour-leader-takes-biggest-photo-opp-of-the-year-thus-far-9831681.html

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937

    Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.

    You're new to this politics thing, aren't you?

    If you want distortion and bully boy tactics, try the regime of one Tony Blair and his henchmen Campbell and Mandelson; followed by the even more odious regime of spin and distortion overseen by one Gordon Brown and his inner coterie of pond slime.

  • Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.

    1. I recall that it was a proposal from a Conservative back bencher and not Osborne.
    2. Shedding light on spending may help the europhile cause with the EC spending being pitched as tiny and likewise Overseas Development. That may reduce the attraction of UKIP.
    3. Welfare does need a further split. Maybe its own page? I also read from Charles a concern that tax credits are not included as they are a deduction from income.

    Overall a good start and will help the political understanding of voters.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,173

    Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.

    Rofl - the trolling gets ever more hysterical as the poll leads melt away.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Ishmael_X said:

    If a group of terrorists living in Britain were to carry out a brutal attack that killed hundreds of innocent people and it came to light afterwards that the entire thing had been planned and discussed by them on Facebook, how would people feel about the fact that our security services had been unable to take very simple steps to prevent such an atrocity?

    OK. But pre-Facebook they would have done exactly the same thing, only planning it by post/telephone. The IRA did OK without twitter. The point about Facebook etc isn't that they facilitate terrorism, it's that they facilitate snooping. It worries me that the security services seek to demonise innocent and beneficial technology in order to extend their own empires.

    I'm ex-Cheltenham. I'd just like to remind people that we're about to enter another spending round. You're going to see a lot of departments conjuring their particular bogeyman - its the equivalent of a frightened animal flaring it's eye patches or the like. Cynical, me? Never.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Indigo said:

    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.

    Banks did what they were legally obliged to do (act in the best interests of their shareholders, Companies Act 2006) using powers granted to them freely by the government, most notably those enacted by the member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
    RBS's behaviour did not remotely act in the best interests of its shareholders. People were screaming at them not to do the ABN Ambro deal (there's video of the investor meeting where the RBS exec casually mention they haven't done any due diligence on the purchase) yet they still went ahead and did it.
  • Can it be fair that Osborne is going to use our money to give an early election advantage to the Tories?He intends to send out a distortion of the national budget to every household. He will fail to tell us that under the heading Welfare, only 3% of that budget goes on the unemployed, a huge proportion goes to pensioners. Democracy is being undermined by two factors, distortion and the bully boy tactics used against the leader of the Opposition by the gutter press.Britain is now a lesser country than it was and the rise of UKIP signifies this.

    After the corruption, venality lies and smears of the last Labour Government? Back to your cesspit Red Rose!
  • Indigo said:

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well quite, its like the whole #FreeOurGirls thing a few months ago. T-shirts and twitter tags are a nice painless way of the liberal chattering classes showing that they "care" without actually having to get off their asses and do anything about the problem. Everyone can feel they are "making a difference", everyone can show the world their self righteousness, everyone can tell their friends at dinner parties that they "took action", everyone gets nice feeling of adequacy as they group hug on social media, whilst actually not risking or doing a damn thing that matters.
    Ambulance Blues, Neil Young.
    "You're all just p***ing in the wind, you don't know it but you are."
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721

    Socrates said:

    ***US Elections***

    One of the Democrat candidates has been killed in a traffic accident - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/03/house-candidate-killed_n_6097496.html

    He was standing for a seat in Oklahoma, and was expected to lose. Under US election law, what happens next?

    Would be down to Oklahoma law, not US law.
    Oklahoma laws are a type of US law. Pedantry aside, can you answer the question?

    Most US election law seems to be delegated to the individual states. In some they have a write-in candidate (bit not sure if there is not enough time here). In others they will hold a special election (by election) after someone gets posthumously elected.

    Look at the 2000 Missouri senate race.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    I see the EU is fulfilling my characterisation of the protection racket nicely. Not content with changing the rules of the contract as they go, demanding random shakedowns when it looks like we're making more profit than they realise, and threatening "consequences" if we try to leave... they are now charging loan shark style interest rates.

    You're like those people who go abroad, spend the whole time on their phones, then whinge to high heaven when the bill comes in inclusive of all those roaming charges.

    You just want to scream: read the contract you signed, stupid.
    You were the first one to have a go at the banks' predatory behaviour when they burrow punitive terms in the small print.
    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.
    By that logic you can say the banks just did what they were legally allowed to do under UK law and the terms granted FREELY by their customers.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Everything being built in North America is being made to US standards now, and (legally) there is nothing the Canadians or the Mexican can do.

    It's as if we joined the EU, and were forced to accept all German product standards and were disallowed from having our own standards for (say) fire extinguishers.

    TTIP would effectively introduce the same regime for EU-America trade as well.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Indigo said:

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well quite, its like the whole #FreeOurGirls thing a few months ago. T-shirts and twitter tags are a nice painless way of the liberal chattering classes showing that they "care" without actually having to get off their asses and do anything about the problem. Everyone can feel they are "making a difference", everyone can show the world their self righteousness, everyone can tell their friends at dinner parties that they "took action", everyone gets nice feeling of adequacy as they group hug on social media, whilst actually not risking or doing a damn thing that matters.
    Absolutely right! When the Free Our Girls campaign was on the local prom and asking people to tie a ribbon to the railings (useless gesture as the council has had to use its workers to remove them - months after the event), I asked those involved why they did not take their protests to the relevant part of the country involved. I was told it was too dangerous and any way they were only protesting that morning as they had a social event in the afternoon!
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Alistair said:

    Indigo said:

    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.

    Banks did what they were legally obliged to do (act in the best interests of their shareholders, Companies Act 2006) using powers granted to them freely by the government, most notably those enacted by the member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
    RBS's behaviour did not remotely act in the best interests of its shareholders. People were screaming at them not to do the ABN Ambro deal (there's video of the investor meeting where the RBS exec casually mention they haven't done any due diligence on the purchase) yet they still went ahead and did it.

    Salmond said it was OK so that was that.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Financier said:

    Indigo said:

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well quite, its like the whole #FreeOurGirls thing a few months ago. T-shirts and twitter tags are a nice painless way of the liberal chattering classes showing that they "care" without actually having to get off their asses and do anything about the problem. Everyone can feel they are "making a difference", everyone can show the world their self righteousness, everyone can tell their friends at dinner parties that they "took action", everyone gets nice feeling of adequacy as they group hug on social media, whilst actually not risking or doing a damn thing that matters.
    Absolutely right! When the Free Our Girls campaign was on the local prom and asking people to tie a ribbon to the railings (useless gesture as the council has had to use its workers to remove them - months after the event), I asked those involved why they did not take their protests to the relevant part of the country involved. I was told it was too dangerous and any way they were only protesting that morning as they had a social event in the afternoon!
    I believe the term is "slacktivism".
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    antifrank said:

    Morning all. My latest post on the SNP's constituency odds is up:

    http://newstonoone.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-snp-battleground-in-november-2014.html

    It is with sad regret that I must inform PB that SNP Dundee West has been cut to 1.50

    I agree that SNP are just too short all across the board now to back willy-nilly. Will have to do some actual research if I want to plonk down some cash on constituency betting now.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Alistair said:

    Indigo said:

    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.

    Banks did what they were legally obliged to do (act in the best interests of their shareholders, Companies Act 2006) using powers granted to them freely by the government, most notably those enacted by the member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
    RBS's behaviour did not remotely act in the best interests of its shareholders. People were screaming at them not to do the ABN Ambro deal (there's video of the investor meeting where the RBS exec casually mention they haven't done any due diligence on the purchase) yet they still went ahead and did it.
    If the majority of the shareholders at the meeting disagreed they could have tabled a motion to remove the directors in question. The motion either wasn't tabled or didn't pass, which means the holders of the majority of the shares, which were probably investment funds and pension companies, were content to let the deal proceed.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    JonathanD said:

    Alistair said:

    Indigo said:

    BenM said:

    The banks deserve everything they get, and more. They drove the decadent casino culture that collapsed the world economy.

    The EU on the other hand just did what it was legally obliged to do under the powers granted to it FREELY by EU nations.

    Banks did what they were legally obliged to do (act in the best interests of their shareholders, Companies Act 2006) using powers granted to them freely by the government, most notably those enacted by the member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath.
    RBS's behaviour did not remotely act in the best interests of its shareholders. People were screaming at them not to do the ABN Ambro deal (there's video of the investor meeting where the RBS exec casually mention they haven't done any due diligence on the purchase) yet they still went ahead and did it.

    Salmond said it was OK so that was that.
    Salmond was a moron over RBS in general - ludicrous blind spot by him for his former employer.
  • ItajaiItajai Posts: 721
    Socrates said:

    Financier said:

    Indigo said:

    However the thing that really showed how shallow he was(and Harman and Clegg) was the T shirt rubbish . For a start wearing a T shirt with a logo does not make you morally good and secondly it shows a propensity to join in any fad and right-on campaign going which is OK if you are 18 and in the Students Union but when you want to lead the country it shows an alarming shallowness

    Well quite, its like the whole #FreeOurGirls thing a few months ago. T-shirts and twitter tags are a nice painless way of the liberal chattering classes showing that they "care" without actually having to get off their asses and do anything about the problem. Everyone can feel they are "making a difference", everyone can show the world their self righteousness, everyone can tell their friends at dinner parties that they "took action", everyone gets nice feeling of adequacy as they group hug on social media, whilst actually not risking or doing a damn thing that matters.
    Absolutely right! When the Free Our Girls campaign was on the local prom and asking people to tie a ribbon to the railings (useless gesture as the council has had to use its workers to remove them - months after the event), I asked those involved why they did not take their protests to the relevant part of the country involved. I was told it was too dangerous and any way they were only protesting that morning as they had a social event in the afternoon!
    I believe the term is "slacktivism".
    Like boycotting vodka in a gesture against Russia. Despite the fact the vodka was made in Latvia by a Swedish company or something.

    Never give up anything you'll really miss.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Sky News all over this.

    Talking heads unusually vocal in condemning it and pointing out it's yet another recruiting tool for UKIP.

    They want our Government to put in place emergency legislation to mitigate effects and protect jobs.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    It's a truly dire proposal. On its own, it's sufficient reason for me to have left the Conservative Party.

    This is going to sound nastier than is meant (not that you probably care!) but I think there's a real ostrich mentality amongst you-kippers. It's amazing for a group that seems to project being 'with it' that there's a failure to engage with the world as it now is. (So tempting to capitalise those last four words at risk of shouting.) This isn't 1945 or 1972 any more. Come on guys, and you mostly are, wake up.
  • On topic (someone has to be!): We don't yet know whether Lord A's polls are a better guide to the GE than standard national polls and UNS. I hope someone will do a thorough study on that question after the election results come in, but for now I think we should be cautious about how we interpret constituency polls.

    At the very least, we need to remind ourselves of the statistical margin of error on individual constituency polls; if Lord Ashcroft publishes a set of polls showing that the Con->Lab swing in Toytown East is 4% more than the swing in Narnia Central, that might mean precisely nothing, given that the margin of error on individual vote shares in these polls is around 3%. In addition to statistical error, there could be systematic errors arising from the difficulty of getting the correct weightings in individual constituencies. Only if the swing difference is very large should we take it seriously.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/the-40-strategy-doesnt-have-to-be-a-fantasy/

    "My friend Hopi Sen wrote one of his thoughtful analyses of Labour’s current position last week. He correctly identified two “bad ideas” – “the core vote fallacy” and the “imaginary progressive consensus”. The first is that Labour’s core vote is imagined to be bigger than it actually is, and that Labour activists don’t realise our core vote’s views are to the right of those of Labour activists. The second is that we fondly imagine there is a leftwing consensus in the UK that only fails to show through because we have multiple progressive parties and a First-Past-the-Post voting system – Hopi correctly points out the public are on the left on certain issues like the NHS, schools and rail renationalisation but on the right on others like tax, immigration, crime and welfare.

    Where I part company with Hopi is in his attack on what he calls the “40% Fantasy”, the 40% strategy advocated by the field director of Ed Miliband’s leadership campaign Marcus Roberts. He correctly says that the two key pillars of reaching 40%, Labour’s 2010 voters and the post-coalition switchers from the Lib Dems, have turned out to be weaker than expected. What he ignores is that no one actually tried to implement the 40% strategy – except perhaps Marcus himself in Southampton Itchen where he is heavily involved in the campaign. It didn’t end up being the Labour Party’s official strategy, which was predicated on a more pessimistic and narrower coalition of basically the two (now weakened) pillars of the 2010 supporters and the ex-Lib Dems. This was supposed to add up to 35% but the rise of UKIP means it is now delivering about 31%. It wasn’t that the 40% strategy was implemented badly, it was rejected."
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    The next batch of Lab/Con marginals in Ashcroft's poll are probably more Labour friendly than the last 10.
    They include Northampton North (28% LD to squeeze), Bury North, Erewash, City of Chester, Croydon Central and Wirral West.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited November 2014
    Floater said:

    Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Sky News all over this. Talking heads unusually vocal in condemning it and pointing out it's yet another recruiting tool for UKIP.
    They want our Government to put in place emergency legislation to mitigate effects and protect jobs.
    Just sit back and let the CBI explain why the EC is good for business....
  • This won't exactly help the mood in relation to the EU either:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c327312-6400-11e4-8ade-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/brussels/feed//product&siteedition=uk#axzz3HzzeOh64

    "The European Commission slashed its economic outlook for the eurozone on Tuesday, predicting the currency bloc would grow only 1.1 per cent next year, down from a 1.7 per cent forecast just six months ago.

    The revisions were particularly big in the two largest eurozone economies, Germany and France, for which the commission cut its projections by nearly a full percentage point for 2015. The gross domestic product forecast for Germany, the common currency’s economic engine, was cut from 2 per cent in May to 1.1 per cent; France went from 1.5 per cent to 0.7 per cent."

    "The commission raised its forecast for Britain saying it expected the economy to grow 2.7 per cent next year, compared with the 2.5 per cent May forecast."
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Floater said:

    Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Sky News all over this. Talking heads unusually vocal in condemning it and pointing out it's yet another recruiting tool for UKIP.
    They want our Government to put in place emergency legislation to mitigate effects and protect jobs.
    Just sit back and let the CBI explain why the EC is good for business....
    The government is working on mitigating its effects. It has in the past argued over the backdating and of course the substance, namely that voluntary overtime, is not like commission or in flight bonuses.

  • Mr. Antifrank, will that mean we get more money demanded as the EU's deranged eurozone policy continues to deliver all the success the realists in Britain suspected it would?
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    antifrank said:

    This won't exactly help the mood in relation to the EU either:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c327312-6400-11e4-8ade-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/brussels/feed//product&siteedition=uk#axzz3HzzeOh64

    "The European Commission slashed its economic outlook for the eurozone on Tuesday, predicting the currency bloc would grow only 1.1 per cent next year, down from a 1.7 per cent forecast just six months ago.

    The revisions were particularly big in the two largest eurozone economies, Germany and France, for which the commission cut its projections by nearly a full percentage point for 2015. The gross domestic product forecast for Germany, the common currency’s economic engine, was cut from 2 per cent in May to 1.1 per cent; France went from 1.5 per cent to 0.7 per cent."

    "The commission raised its forecast for Britain saying it expected the economy to grow 2.7 per cent next year, compared with the 2.5 per cent May forecast."

    So where does the EC expect the UK's growth to come from if the other two major EU economies are in decline? Surely not exports to the EU?

    Just been speaking with my contact at Siemens HQ Germany and they are now heavily dependent on non-European business but finding all sorts of contract time delays.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    It's a truly dire proposal. On its own, it's sufficient reason for me to have left the Conservative Party.

    This is going to sound nastier than is meant (not that you probably care!) but I think there's a real ostrich mentality amongst you-kippers. It's amazing for a group that seems to project being 'with it' that there's a failure to engage with the world as it now is. (So tempting to capitalise those last four words at risk of shouting.) This isn't 1945 or 1972 any more. Come on guys, and you mostly are, wake up.
    Ah yes

    wake up conservatives, this isn't 1997 you know, the country has moved on.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014
    Grandiose said:

    Floater said:

    Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Sky News all over this. Talking heads unusually vocal in condemning it and pointing out it's yet another recruiting tool for UKIP.
    They want our Government to put in place emergency legislation to mitigate effects and protect jobs.
    Just sit back and let the CBI explain why the EC is good for business....
    The government is working on mitigating its effects. It has in the past argued over the backdating and of course the substance, namely that voluntary overtime, is not like commission or in flight bonuses.

    It's like they want to impose the French labour market on the rest of Europe in the middle of the worst economic crisis since the EU (EEC, whatever) was founded. Force more costs on employers while simultaneously removing the flexibility that overtime offers. The latter will inevitably hit job security, which (one would have thought) was meant to be a primary concern of any union.

    Nuts.
  • Mr. Antifrank, will that mean we get more money demanded as the EU's deranged eurozone policy continues to deliver all the success the realists in Britain suspected it would?

    That would no doubt be one of the longer term consequences of the Commission's prediction coming to pass...
  • Anorak said:

    Grandiose said:

    Floater said:

    Indigo said:

    Meanwhile by far the most important decision today will be the EAT one on holiday pay. If it goes the way the trade unions hope, thousands and I mean thousands of their members in the private sector face losing their jobs and hundreds of thousands will see a huge fall in their pay as employers cut back on granting overtime on an ongoing basis.

    Is there a reference for that, sounds alarming. Is it asking for O/T to be used when calculating holiday pay or something ?

    Sky News all over this. Talking heads unusually vocal in condemning it and pointing out it's yet another recruiting tool for UKIP.
    They want our Government to put in place emergency legislation to mitigate effects and protect jobs.
    Just sit back and let the CBI explain why the EC is good for business....
    The government is working on mitigating its effects. It has in the past argued over the backdating and of course the substance, namely that voluntary overtime, is not like commission or in flight bonuses.

    It's like they want to impose the French labour market on the rest of Europe in the middle of the worst economic crisis since the EU (EEC, whatever) was founded. Force more costs on employers while simultaneously removing the flexibility that overtime offers.

    Nuts.
    Will no one think of the lawyers?

    Actually, I can answer that question myself. The lawyers will think of the lawyers.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?
  • Mr. Antifrank, if we're still in the EU then. If the EU still exists then.
  • Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Good for the Ukraine and peace.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    It's a truly dire proposal. On its own, it's sufficient reason for me to have left the Conservative Party.

    This is going to sound nastier than is meant (not that you probably care!) but I think there's a real ostrich mentality amongst you-kippers. It's amazing for a group that seems to project being 'with it' that there's a failure to engage with the world as it now is. (So tempting to capitalise those last four words at risk of shouting.) This isn't 1945 or 1972 any more. Come on guys, and you mostly are, wake up.
    Which bit of the world do you feel is insufficiently engaged with ? I think quite of lot of kippers (amongst whom I might number myself, but I haven't decided yet) realise that its not going to be 2014 forever either, and want to shape the world how they would like it to be, not just bend over and apply the vaseline and wait for the EU to tell them how the world is going to be.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited November 2014

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Not yet it isn't.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Believe that is the price for West Texas. Brent is at ~$83

    ICE Futures Europe
    Brent Crude Oil Futures $/barrel Tue 10:00 82.65 -2.13

    Brent Crude Oil Spot $/barrel Mon 15:15 85.08 +0.24

    ICE Futures US
    West Texas Intermediate Crude Oil Futures $/barrel Tue 10:00 76.68 -2.10


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Crude Oil (WTI) USD/bbl. 77.27
    Crude Oil (Brent) USD/bbl. 83.30
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Everything being built in North America is being made to US standards now, and (legally) there is nothing the Canadians or the Mexican can do.

    It's as if we joined the EU, and were forced to accept all German product standards and were disallowed from having our own standards for (say) fire extinguishers.

    TTIP would effectively introduce the same regime for EU-America trade as well.
    Wouldn’t it be even tougher on sausages?

    Sorry, just trawling through.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Pulpstar said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Not yet it isn't.
    I was quoting futures, but good to see the oil community are still awake.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    Polls (last 6 average, 10 with YG)

    London

    Ipsos:... C 31 / L 41 / LD 8 / UK 8 / GRN 8
    YG:....... C 33 / L 39 / LD 9 / UK 12 / GRN 6

    Midlands

    Ashcroft: C 36 / L 28 / LD 8 / UK 20 / GRN 6
    ComRes: C 35 / L 30 / LD 8 / UK 23 / GRN 3
    ICM:........ C 36 / L 33 / LD 8 / UK 15 / GRN 4
    Ipsos:...... C 35 / L 33 / LD 7 / UK 16 / GRN 6
    Populus:...C 36 / L 34 / LD 8 / UK 17 / GRN 5

    North

    Ashcroft: C 28 / L 37 / LD 6 / UK 22 / GRN 6
    ComRes: C 25 / L 44 / LD 7 / UK 19 / GRN 3
    ICM:........ C 26 / L 41 / LD 8 / UK 11 / GRN 4
    Ipsos:...... C 28 / L 41 / LD 7 / UK 16 / GRN 6
    Populus:...C 30 / L 42 / LD 8 / UK 17 / GRN 3
    YG:.......... C 27 / L 43 / LD 5 / UK 18 / GRN 6











  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Good one from the Mash:
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/voters-to-get-ww2-style-propaganda-2014110492409

    Households will receive information on how their tax is spent in the form of a leaflet showing an ape-like skinhead wearing a baseball hat labelled BENEFITS CLAIMANT eating a large piece of pie with YOUR MONEY written on it.

    The closing para on Farage is a little slice of fried gold.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited November 2014
    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Not yet it isn't.
    I was quoting futures, but good to see the oil community are still awake.
    I have a bet on oil being over £50 at year end (Brent)

    It is squeaky bum time on this but I still think I'm on the right side.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    I'm sure they will. That's still a very, very painful price for some, and one seems to mark the start of a new price plateau. [not that I'm willing to risk a penny of my own hard-earned on that scenario!]
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    So that's about a $40 drop from June.

    Has anybody asked Salmond or Sturgeon how they planned to finance Scotland ?


  • Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    I think you mean the West Texas price. Brent crude is $82.65 this morning.
  • The EU ruling is...:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29896810

    "Overtime 'should count in holiday pay'"
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    So that's about a $40 drop from June.

    Has anybody asked Salmond or Sturgeon how they planned to finance Scotland ?


    Ancient history now, the SNP are lucky to have lost the referendum.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    I wish Palin would stand:

    On Point leading the Conservative Wave to restore America pic.twitter.com/hnsCnoOFPP

    — Panzer Leader (@ArmorCavSpin) November 3, 2014
    Excellent post for confirming everything.
    @audreyanne
    Tell me, are you really a cross dresser?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Anorak said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    I'm sure they will. That's still a very, very painful price for some, and one seems to mark the start of a new price plateau. [not that I'm willing to risk a penny of my own hard-earned on that scenario!]
    More painful for Putin than the House of Saud.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    The EU ruling is...:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29896810

    "Overtime 'should count in holiday pay'"

    I'm still waiting for details on how and what backdating. Which I expect the government to I terpene on if necessary.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited November 2014
    On topic, how did the individual state polls actually fare in 2012 vs taking a national average and applying a uniform swing? I haven't looked at this systematically but I seem to remember all kinds of weird local swings forecast based on state polling that didn't pan out in practice, like Obama cruising to a win in Ohio while having a fight on his hands in Colorado.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    So that's about a $40 drop from June.

    Has anybody asked Salmond or Sturgeon how they planned to finance Scotland ?


    Ancient history now, the SNP are lucky to have lost the referendum.
    Not quite so ancient given 80,000 Nats want to have a re-run. :-)
  • Financier said:

    http://labourlist.org/2014/11/the-40-strategy-doesnt-have-to-be-a-fantasy/

    "My friend Hopi Sen wrote one of his thoughtful analyses of Labour’s current position last week. He correctly identified two “bad ideas” – “the core vote fallacy” and the “imaginary progressive consensus”. The first is that Labour’s core vote is imagined to be bigger than it actually is, and that Labour activists don’t realise our core vote’s views are to the right of those of Labour activists. The second is that we fondly imagine there is a leftwing consensus in the UK that only fails to show through because we have multiple progressive parties and a First-Past-the-Post voting system – Hopi correctly points out the public are on the left on certain issues like the NHS, schools and rail renationalisation but on the right on others like tax, immigration, crime and welfare.

    Where I part company with Hopi is in his attack on what he calls the “40% Fantasy”, the 40% strategy advocated by the field director of Ed Miliband’s leadership campaign Marcus Roberts. He correctly says that the two key pillars of reaching 40%, Labour’s 2010 voters and the post-coalition switchers from the Lib Dems, have turned out to be weaker than expected. What he ignores is that no one actually tried to implement the 40% strategy – except perhaps Marcus himself in Southampton Itchen where he is heavily involved in the campaign. It didn’t end up being the Labour Party’s official strategy, which was predicated on a more pessimistic and narrower coalition of basically the two (now weakened) pillars of the 2010 supporters and the ex-Lib Dems. This was supposed to add up to 35% but the rise of UKIP means it is now delivering about 31%. It wasn’t that the 40% strategy was implemented badly, it was rejected."

    Just read that article. If he still thinks there is a chance, however remote, of Labour reaching 40% in May next year under Miliband then he's living in cloud-cuckoo land. So many Labour activists are in complete denial about the predicament they're in.

    Apart from Hopi Sen who's a very smart and perceptive analyst.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Pulpstar said:

    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    Saudi/OPEC cut production at some point.

    Perhaps $75-$80 a barrel or so. We aren't there yet.
    So that's about a $40 drop from June.

    Has anybody asked Salmond or Sturgeon how they planned to finance Scotland ?


    Magic beans, and taxes on unicorns, bankers, and curry.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Looking back - was the Indy Ref an almighty plot to completely stitch up Scottish Labour ?!?!!!

    Because it certainly looks to have worked out that way in practice.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited November 2014

    The EU ruling is...:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29896810

    "Overtime 'should count in holiday pay'"

    Stupid.

    It simply means people will make more use of temps and cut back on overtime.

    On the other hand now that the price of labour is being jacked up it could long term push a point or two on to productivity, machines have just improved their payback.
  • Indigo said:

    Sean_F said:

    Indigo said:

    Mr. Indigo, not heard that social media story. Politicians can be bloody stupid.

    "Theresa May to announce new Extremist Disruption Orders to strengthen counter-terrorism if the Tories win the next general election"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11129474/Extremists-to-have-Facebook-and-Twitter-vetted-by-anti-terror-police.html

    and then as coincidence would have it, we get the new chief of GCHQ in the papers today

    "Technology giants such as Facebook and Twitter have become "the command and control networks of choice" for terrorists and criminals but are "in denial" about the scale of the problem, the new head of GCHQ has said"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11206398/Britains-spy-chief-says-US-tech-firms-aid-terrorism.html

    It's a truly dire proposal. On its own, it's sufficient reason for me to have left the Conservative Party.

    This is going to sound nastier than is meant (not that you probably care!) but I think there's a real ostrich mentality amongst you-kippers. It's amazing for a group that seems to project being 'with it' that there's a failure to engage with the world as it now is. (So tempting to capitalise those last four words at risk of shouting.) This isn't 1945 or 1972 any more. Come on guys, and you mostly are, wake up.
    Which bit of the world do you feel is insufficiently engaged with ? I think quite of lot of kippers (amongst whom I might number myself, but I haven't decided yet) realise that its not going to be 2014 forever either, and want to shape the world how they would like it to be, not just bend over and apply the vaseline and wait for the EU to tell them how the world is going to be.
    Indigo crude trading at $77/barrel.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Not yet it isn't.
    Anorak said:

    Brent crude trading at $77 a barrel, what price independence ?

    Sweaty palms in Moscow right now, as well as Venezuela and those oh-so-liberal gulf states. Heart of stone, etc, etc.
    And their fellow travellers in Labour : "Cost of living crisis" wont see as much traction now..
This discussion has been closed.