Serious trouble for Labour with their lead down to 1 percentage point with the UKPollingReport average as I said earlier and their projected number of seats down to 325.
@George_Osborne: People have right to know exactly much tax they pay & how it's spent. Now for 1st time 24million taxpayers get a new personal #taxsummary
Another Osborne gift for future profligate Labour chancellors, like the OBR
If anybody actually reads this stuff it'll be good for progressive causes like benefits spending and overseas aid, since the voters tend to vastly overestimate how much the government is spending on them.
Overseas aid perhaps, it puts it in perspective, but benefit spending...oh yes I can see loads of people saying so what we need is a more progressive approach because 25% of my pay packet goes to paying the benefits of other people*, more than going towards funding the NHS or educating the kids.
* I know it isn't as black and white as this, but that is how anybody glancing at the chart will see it.
Dear PB brains: completely off topic but any tips for hotels in Istanbul. Planning a trip there in mid December with family. A decade since last there.
Thanks!
Check on the heating. Not all Turkish hotels cope well in the winter.
True, but Ouch! "So Darling joins Alan Milburn, James Purnell, Jim Murphy and Alan Johnson as a competent Labour centrist who has concluded that life is too short to play a bit part in Ed Miliband’s sorry pantomime. It’s a shame: Miliband needs people like Darling around. But the feeling is certainly not mutual."
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
His bluff is not being called. This is just the early stages of sparring.
No, we kippers just want to drive you old tory diehards nuts, and to realise that a new force is arising that doesn't care a damn for the lies and sneakiness of a party that has lost its way.
Oh, quite. Driving sensible people nuts is exactly what you want to do. It is indeed very frustrating to see such madness risking destroying all the progress that has been made. You may well succeed in putting Ed Miliband - a spectacularly incompetent Europhile - into No 10, and, yes, I know you don't care a damn about that.
Never in my lifetime have I seen such a piece of self-harm as UKIP. It's like the SDP but without the excuse which they had, which was that Labour had lost their marbles.
Oh come come how disingenuous of you when your party stabbed their most successful peacetime leader in the back and have spent the subsequent 25 years squabbling over the implications of that one act. Nobody can do self-harm like the Tories
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
Nope, the headline is about Germany saying no to renegotiation forcing Cameron to surrender as usual. It's the 3rd time in 2 weeks, people will get notice of it.
If the renegotiation is unsuccesful then the Brexit ref is on current terms, provided Cameron is PM.
No, we kippers just want to drive you old tory diehards nuts, and to realise that a new force is arising that doesn't care a damn for the lies and sneakiness of a party that has lost its way.
Oh, quite. Driving sensible people nuts is exactly what you want to do. It is indeed very frustrating to see such madness risking destroying all the progress that has been made. You may well succeed in putting Ed Miliband - a spectacularly incompetent Europhile - into No 10, and, yes, I know you don't care a damn about that.
Never in my lifetime have I seen such a piece of self-harm as UKIP. It's like the SDP but without the excuse which they had, which was that Labour had lost their marbles.
I think Napoleon had the same reaction in 1814 when his generals asked him to resign. Or Lord North in 1782 during the american war of independence.
Oh come come how disingenuous of you when your party stabbed their most successful peacetime leader in the back and have spent the subsequent 25 years squabbling over the implications of that one act. Nobody can do self-harm like the Tories
Fair point, but of course it's some of those very same self-harming Tories who have set up UKIP.
@George_Osborne: People have right to know exactly much tax they pay & how it's spent. Now for 1st time 24million taxpayers get a new personal #taxsummary
I would that 90% of people have no idea the break down is anything like this.
One of the many things I like about living here is that everything is priced exclusive of tax.
When you get to the checkout sales tax is added and is itemized on the receipt, so you always know how much tax you've paid. In my case it's usually 6% but is much lower on food and clothing.
You start doing that with the usurious VAT rate you pay there and it won't last long. When I bought a car over there about 15 years ago I compared the UK price with the US price. The US price was much lower - about 15% - for a German made car. That's gouging by any standard.
When VAT was introduced into the UK it was explained as being cheaper than the sales tax it replaced which was iirc about 10%, due to how it was applied. It didn't take long to realize we'd been fooled again by another European wheeze.
The Daily Mail may have ruffled a few feathers with this:
"Sleepy Suffolk gets a taste of the erotic
If you want to see how much the Tory Party has changed, go to quintessentially Olde English Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk on Tuesday.
Favourite to succeed retiring local Conservative MP David Ruffley is the exotically named Zehra Zaidi – a young law student and human rights worker with family roots in India and Pakistan. She speaks French, Urdu and Italian – very handy when buying turnips in the town market."
There is no manifest absurdity. Your straw man about signing up to our own Armed Forces is a straw man.
A person enlists with the British Army. His actions while he is serving the Crown are designed to advance a political cause. He uses firearms and explosives in the course of his duties. If this is not terrorism within the meaning of the statute, then how is a person who enlists and serves in the army of a foreign government with the same motivation to be distinguished?
So you can't find an opinion poll that asks that question either.
I can but I'm not your personal researcher (frankly I'm gobsmacked that it has eluded you, have you heard of google?). Ireland, amongst other things, was the only EU country to ratify the fiscal compact via referendum (60:40), has the highest approval rate for the euro in the eurozone (72%) and would even vote to stay in the EU by a 2:1 margin after the UK left (all those votes / polls occurring after Sinn Fein's rise). These are just some of the reasons why I think your suggestion is for the birds. The actual polling on the issue (which would make an Albanian dictator blush) is just the cherry on top.
@George_Osborne: People have right to know exactly much tax they pay & how it's spent. Now for 1st time 24million taxpayers get a new personal #taxsummary
I would that 90% of people have no idea the break down is anything like this.
One of the many things I like about living here is that everything is priced exclusive of tax.
When you get to the checkout sales tax is added and is itemized on the receipt, so you always know how much tax you've paid. In my case it's usually 6% but is much lower on food and clothing.
You start doing that with the usurious VAT rate you pay there and it won't last long. When I bought a car over there about 15 years ago I compared the UK price with the US price. The US price was much lower - about 15% - for a German made car. That's gouging by any standard.
When VAT was introduced into the UK it was explained as being cheaper than the sales tax it replaced which was iirc about 10%, due to how it was applied. It didn't take long to realize we'd been fooled again by another European wheeze.
It is especially good in places like Oregon.... :-)
Not so good on the income tax. Need to work in Washington, shop in Oregon.
The Daily Mail may have ruffled a few feathers with this:
"Sleepy Suffolk gets a taste of the erotic
If you want to see how much the Tory Party has changed, go to quintessentially Olde English Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk on Tuesday.
Favourite to succeed retiring local Conservative MP David Ruffley is the exotically named Zehra Zaidi – a young law student and human rights worker with family roots in India and Pakistan. She speaks French, Urdu and Italian – very handy when buying turnips in the town market."
The rules on shooting captured partisans are indeed interesting. As partisans do not often give quarter they cannot expect it.
Domestic opinion has moved on though, and a film about the trial of a soldier who admitted shooting prisoners would not depict him in such a positive light. In part this is because Breaker Morant was a 1980 film and at the time there was little sympathy for Boers.
Make the same film about the Black and Tans counter insurgency war, with a rogue officer shooting captured IRA men, and a priest, and see how that goes down!
These things are always coloured by time, location, retrospect, partisanship.
But Breaker Morant is a great film, one of the greatest. It asks the question "What would you do, in the same circumstances?" It's hard not to answer "Quite possibly, the same", and be drawn irresistibly to the identical conclusion as the defendant who had his sentence commuted - that these men were "Scapegoats of the Empire", sacrificed for some supposed higher goal - a grubby deal to end a war that couldn't be won... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Witton
''What would you do under the circumstances'' Would you accept the surrender of your enemies, secure them and then shoot them? And then shoot the witnesses?
I am far from clear that the film, excellent though it might have been, was a true reflection of historical fact, so the questions it might want to ask were somewhat flawed. If you murder prisoners because you (wrongly and irrationally) believed that your friend and commanding officer had himself been murdered, then you are not being made a 'scapegoat'. It is a significantly different matter than refusing to accept a surrender due to the nature of the enemy you were fighting.
Dear PB brains: completely off topic but any tips for hotels in Istanbul. Planning a trip there in mid December with family. A decade since last there.
Thanks!
Check on the heating. Not all Turkish hotels cope well in the winter.
If its being run off the same units that do the summer air-con, they are pathetically anaemic.
Dear PB brains: completely off topic but any tips for hotels in Istanbul. Planning a trip there in mid December with family. A decade since last there.
Dear PB brains: completely off topic but any tips for hotels in Istanbul. Planning a trip there in mid December with family. A decade since last there.
Thanks!
Istanbul has lots of overpriced hotels. I've had two poor experiences there. The renovated Pera Palace looks good though.
Thank you. I stayed at the Kempinski once when work was paying and at some indifferent ones when I was. Didn't stop me enjoying the city though. But have got fussier as I get older......!
So you can't find an opinion poll that asks that question either.
I can but I'm not your personal researcher (frankly I'm gobsmacked that it has eluded you, have you heard of google?). Ireland, amongst other things, was the only EU country to ratify the fiscal compact via referendum (60:40), has the highest approval rate for the euro in the eurozone (72%) and would even vote to stay in the EU by a 2:1 margin after the UK left (all those votes / polls occurring after Sinn Fein's rise). These are just some of the reasons why I think your suggestion is for the birds. The actual polling on the issue (which would make an Albanian dictator blush) is just the cherry on top.
That poll is quite an old one, almost 2 years old. At least my poll that showed that 69% wanted to leave the euro is 11 months old. You see a lot can change in a year, and since I got the newest poll I win the argument.
Dear PB brains: completely off topic but any tips for hotels in Istanbul. Planning a trip there in mid December with family. A decade since last there.
Thanks!
I have a friend who swears by the Kempinski Ciragan. But he always does it on expenses, so I have no idea how realistic it is for normal people
Oh come come how disingenuous of you when your party stabbed their most successful peacetime leader in the back and have spent the subsequent 25 years squabbling over the implications of that one act. Nobody can do self-harm like the Tories
Fair point, but of course it's some of those very same self-harming Tories who have set up UKIP.
No its the ones inside the party who have perpetuated 25 years of internecine warfare that have done the damage. If not for them chances are UKIP would never have got off the ground. The Tories along with Brussels have been the greatest gifts to UKIP, gifts they could never of dreamed of.
And guess what as these latest headlines demonstrate they are the gifts that keep on giving. What better than a German Chancellor laying down the law to a British Prime Minister who in turn seems to be desperate to appease her?
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
His bluff is not being called. This is just the early stages of sparring.
The bluff is precisely the pretence that sparring is on the cards; the reality is that free movement of people is non negotiable and there is nothing to spar about. Cameron is like that bloke with the knives in Indiana Jones, and Merkel is Harrison Ford shooting him with a revolver.
@George_Osborne: People have right to know exactly much tax they pay & how it's spent. Now for 1st time 24million taxpayers get a new personal #taxsummary
Nope, the headline is about Germany saying no to renegotiation forcing Cameron to surrender as usual. It's the 3rd time in 2 weeks, people will get notice of it.
Given the strong unionist/No feelings in Edinburgh and the "Yes" feeling in Glasgow I think the SNP could outperform the Scottish uniform swing in Glasgow by quite some margin but flop perhaps in Edinburgh (Comparatively) which will probably mean Labour's seats are safe enough there. (North Leith, Edi SW safer than Glasgow East, Glasgow South)
At least my poll that showed that 69% wanted to leave the euro is 11 months old.
Your poll showed no such thing.
This is going on a bit more than it deserves to. You think Ireland might possibly leave the EU before the UK. I politely suggest that you havent the first clue about how Irish people would vote on such a proposition in the extremely unlikely event it was ever put to them. But each to their own opinion.
@George_Osborne: People have right to know exactly much tax they pay & how it's spent. Now for 1st time 24million taxpayers get a new personal #taxsummary
I would that 90% of people have no idea the break down is anything like this.
One of the many things I like about living here is that everything is priced exclusive of tax.
When you get to the checkout sales tax is added and is itemized on the receipt, so you always know how much tax you've paid. In my case it's usually 6% but is much lower on food and clothing.
You start doing that with the usurious VAT rate you pay there and it won't last long. When I bought a car over there about 15 years ago I compared the UK price with the US price. The US price was much lower - about 15% - for a German made car. That's gouging by any standard.
When VAT was introduced into the UK it was explained as being cheaper than the sales tax it replaced which was iirc about 10%, due to how it was applied. It didn't take long to realize we'd been fooled again by another European wheeze.
It is especially good in places like Oregon.... :-)
Of course there are also states - like Florida - which have no personal income tax. Indeed New Hampshire's slogan is "Live free or die". The McDonalds there still charge though.
Property taxes in Florida are extortionate as a result.
Luckily most folks there are old from the northeast where taxes are high anyway.
Nope, the headline is about Germany saying no to renegotiation forcing Cameron to surrender as usual. It's the 3rd time in 2 weeks, people will get notice of it.
There is no manifest absurdity. Your straw man about signing up to our own Armed Forces is a straw man.
A person enlists with the British Army. His actions while he is serving the Crown are designed to advance a political cause. He uses firearms and explosives in the course of his duties. If this is not terrorism within the meaning of the statute, then how is a person who enlists and serves in the army of a foreign government with the same motivation to be distinguished?
By common sense. No one I know in the British Army would assent to the proposition that they joined it to advance a political cause. If a jihadi were to join the army of a foreign country given to persecuting Shiites, Christians or whatever then a political religious or racial motive could plausibly be deduced from the facts.
Artus Mas the nationalist Catalonian leader is being outflanked by even more nationalist parties who demand a declaration of independence without the spanish banned referendum.
This is really good news - am very keen on Spain collapsing. A useful result in my part of the world.
The bluff is precisely the pretence that sparring is on the cards; the reality is that free movement of people is non negotiable and there is nothing to spar about. Cameron is like that bloke with the knives in Indiana Jones, and Merkel is Harrison Ford shooting him with a revolver.
OK, let's accept that premise (which I largely do accept, BTW).
Now can you explain how on earth Nigel Farage is going to negotiate anything different when he comes to discuss EXACTLY the same issues with our EU friends to get a trade treaty with access to the Single Market?
If it's non-negotiable it's non-negotiable. So by your reasoning we're stuck with it, like the Swiss and the Norwegians are.
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
His bluff is not being called. This is just the early stages of sparring.
The negotiation process, depending on the depth and size, can be compared to the 5 stages of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance
Nope, the headline is about Germany saying no to renegotiation forcing Cameron to surrender as usual. It's the 3rd time in 2 weeks, people will get notice of it.
You seem to run the white flag up quite quickly.
Are you French?
How clever or funny is that French slur, actually, looking at the circumstances in which it arose? I wish this country had had the moral courage displayed by the French over Iraq.
The bluff is precisely the pretence that sparring is on the cards; the reality is that free movement of people is non negotiable and there is nothing to spar about. Cameron is like that bloke with the knives in Indiana Jones, and Merkel is Harrison Ford shooting him with a revolver.
OK, let's accept that premise.
Now can you explain how on earth Nigel Farage is going to negotiate anything different when he comes to discuss EXACTLY the same issues with our EU friends to get a trade treaty with access to the Single Market?
If it's non-negotiable it's non-negotiable. So by your reasoning we're stuck with it, like the Swiss and the Norwegians are.
Better get used to it in that case.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
By common sense. No one I know in the British Army would assent to the proposition that they joined it to advance a political cause. If a jihadi were to join the army of a foreign country given to persecuting Shiites, Christians or whatever then a political religious or racial motive could plausibly be deduced from the facts.
This is sophistry. If a person joined the British Army on the eve of the war in Iraq, because they were passionately committed to the principles of Blairism and intended to advance those principles by Crown service, you are suggesting they fall within section 1.
Breaker Morant - as a movie it's really good. On my -limited - looking at the background it seems to be reasonably accurate, with some dramatic license.
It does raise some disturbing questions, given KItchener's actions
I don't believe for a minute that Merkel really thinks Britain might leave the EU. She's wrong of course: we might very well leave, although at the moment I think the 2017 referendum result is most likely to be 55/45 to stay in.
The bluff is precisely the pretence that sparring is on the cards; the reality is that free movement of people is non negotiable and there is nothing to spar about. Cameron is like that bloke with the knives in Indiana Jones, and Merkel is Harrison Ford shooting him with a revolver.
OK, let's accept that premise.
Now can you explain how on earth Nigel Farage is going to negotiate anything different when he comes to discuss EXACTLY the same issues with our EU friends to get a trade treaty with access to the Single Market?
If it's non-negotiable it's non-negotiable. So by your reasoning we're stuck with it.
Better get used to it in that case.
Im not a kipper, I was just pointing out that this is going to damage Cameron and strengthen ukip in the short term, for the reasons suggested.
I think Farage would answer your point by saying that you simply can't claim that staying in but compromising the free movement point, and negotiating a wholly new agreement from the outside, are EXACTLY the same issue. The South Koreans seem to have managed what Farage wants (i appreciate there are answers to that).
Be very careful with this. The site is legit, but it has been the target of scammers using it i.e like the early days of ebay, follow the standard procedures exactly, do research on the internet on how not to fall victim to some of the common cons being undertaken through this portal.
manofkent - 'Nobody can do self-harm like the Tories'
Really? So Brown plotting against Blair does not count?
Mrs Thatcher's problems (thats the lady who took us into the EU free market of goods services and people) came from the so called poll tax. The Tories won the subsequent election, but I do not think any of us should be surprised at kippers rewriting history.
There is a fair argument to make that Thatcher should not have resigned, but in April 1990 her ratings were 23%. Soon after the Tories lost Mid Staffordshire (turning a 15000 majority into a 9500 deficit) with 90% of defectors saying she had lost her way. You could argue that the angel of death subsequently visited upon Mid Staffs in retribution, you can like or not like Thatcher - I like her, but its silly to blame her foolish mistakes on other people.
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
For 'seeing how it sounds then', read 'I'm still living in my self serving fantasy land'.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
If you don't control your own borders, bur instead rely on some external outfit to impose those rules, it's hard to see how 'sovereign' you are as a nation.
Ditto if you also abandon your currency for one imposed by same external outfit.
"Fundraiser for Nus Ghani, Parliamentary Candidate for Wealden 2015" Date: Monday, 10th November 2014 Time: 6.45pm - 8pm Venue - 34 Smith Square, Westminster, London SW1P 3HL At the Ellwood Atfield Gallery, exhibiting Royalty, Politics and War photojournalism"
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Looks like you can walk in and out of Switzerland at will at the French border near CERN (the atomic research centre). The customs posts are still in situ, but nobody manning them.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
If you don't control your own borders, bur instead rely on some external outfit to impose those rules, it's hard to see how 'sovereign' you are as a nation.
Ditto if you also abandon your currency for one imposed by same external outfit.
Artus Mas the nationalist Catalonian leader is being outflanked by even more nationalist parties who demand a declaration of independence without the spanish banned referendum.
This is really good news - am very keen on Spain collapsing. A useful result in my part of the world.
Are you sure?
Failing governments frequently lash out and one that had just lost Catalonia might see Gib as a modest consolation prize......
I've finally fleed to the Red Zone Channel. It's the only place to escape the relentless onslaught of the political commecials - Red Zone has no commercials.
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
This will become another potent issue for the PM, just after the EU bill and the European Arrest Warrant. Three hits from Europe in 2 weeks time. Public attitudes will harden.
Wonderful Kipper reasoning!
So, let's get this straight: you think that a headline indicating Cameron might be taking us out of the EU is a reason for people who want to leave the EU not to vote for him?
Run that one past me again..
For "taking us out of the EU", read " having his bluff called" and see how it sounds then.
For 'seeing how it sounds then', read 'I'm still living in my self serving fantasy land'.
Hopefully we can depart this useless project without even having to go through a silly "re-negotiation" and referendum.
Farage may actually have to get off the gravy train soon. Who would have thunk it? :^O
I don't think that the present parliament will vote for a simple exit. The LD will not permit it to even come to a vote. The next parliament will be extraordinarily messy with a possible 3 party coalition government having to face another economic crash in europe, so anything before 2020 is unlikely.
We'll it won't be this side of the election, but I'm not sure we'll have to wait many years.
The Europeans don't really want us to stay and the British seem to want to leave.
Looks like we're "consciously uncoupling" to me. Things can move surprisingly quickly when momentum starts to build...
And when its all over? Will it be any different? Only marginally. And it will be moot if it is better - although i could live nwith being in the EEA. We will still be in the single market and subject to EU single market rules, and if we are lucky it will be done quicky and not be disruptive to the economy and our inward investment. This to me is the real point about negotiating first rather than walking out and hoping for something after.
Immigration? Leaving aside whether there will be any real change, just what will be the position of the 2 million British people in the EU? Its all very well ignoring that constituency now (and their relatives & dependants - another 5 million?) but start to change their relationship, start to maybe force them home, start to make working in the EU difficult, and then a whole new area for complaint will emerge.
But then again UKIP are not about the EU they are not about whats good for Britain, they are just a coalition of hate.
I think you've cornered the market on hatred in they way you obsess about UKIP. Its not healthy you know. Ever thought about counselling?
A pathetically miserable non answer. Farage peddles a big lie. So much so that he has descended into giving out hate filled dog whistles. Allowing his own MEP to get away with calling some of their own supporters 'ting tongs' and getting into bed with a Polish neo nazi hardly helps.
I've finally fleed to the Red Zone Channel. It's the only place to escape the relentless onslaught of the political commecials - Red Zone has no commercials.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
manofkent - 'Nobody can do self-harm like the Tories'
Really? So Brown plotting against Blair does not count?
Mrs Thatcher's problems (thats the lady who took us into the EU free market of goods services and people) came from the so called poll tax. The Tories won the subsequent election, but I do not think any of us should be surprised at kippers rewriting history.
There is a fair argument to make that Thatcher should not have resigned, but in April 1990 her ratings were 23%. Soon after the Tories lost Mid Staffordshire (turning a 15000 majority into a 9500 deficit) with 90% of defectors saying she had lost her way. You could argue that the angel of death subsequently visited upon Mid Staffs in retribution, you can like or not like Thatcher - I like her, but its silly to blame her foolish mistakes on other people.
When you have quite finished making a prat of yourself (again). All your waffling does not change the core point.That point is that ever since that fateful day in November 1990 the Tory party have been divided and at war with itself. A dysfunctional mess. So much so that they were unable to defeat a Blair led Labour party (with all of Brown's plotting) that polled a pathetic 9.5 million votes (less than what Major polled on that disastrous day in 1997) in 2005 and had it not been for a lack of bottle by Brown, they would have lost again in 2007.
They only got back into power in 2010 off the back of the worst financial crisis in 80 years and the worst Parliamentary scandal in modern history and then it was not decisive. They had to turn to the Libdems and they have been squabbling and plotting against each other ever since. They are unable to win a majority, effectively dead in large parts of the country and are looking like they may well be thrown out again in 2015. You could not make up the mess the Tory party is in!
Hopefully we can depart this useless project without even having to go through a silly "re-negotiation" and referendum.
Farage may actually have to get off the gravy train soon. Who would have thunk it? :^O
I don't think that the present parliament will vote for a simple exit. The LD will not permit it to even come to a vote. The next parliament will be extraordinarily messy with a possible 3 party coalition government having to face another economic crash in europe, so anything before 2020 is unlikely.
We'll it won't be this side of the election, but I'm not sure we'll have to wait many years.
The Europeans don't really want us to stay and the British seem to want to leave.
Looks like we're "consciously uncoupling" to me. Things can move surprisingly quickly when momentum starts to build...
ething after.
Immigration? Leaving aside whether there will be any real change, just what will be the position of the 2 million British people in the EU? Its all very well ignoring that constituency now (and their relatives & dependants - another 5 million?) but start to change their relationship, start to maybe force them home, start to make working in the EU difficult, and then a whole new area for complaint will emerge.
But then again UKIP are not about the EU they are not about whats good for Britain, they are just a coalition of hate.
I think you've cornered the market on hatred in they way you obsess about UKIP. Its not healthy you know. Ever thought about counselling?
A pathetically miserable non answer. Farage peddles a big lie. So much so that he has descended into giving out hate filled dog whistles. Allowing his own MEP to get away with calling some of their own supporters 'ting tongs' and getting into bed with a Polish neo nazi hardly helps.
Hate-filled dog-whistles such as UKIP being "full of fruitcakes and loons"?
Ting Tong was a character invented by the BBC's Little Britain sketch show.
I've finally fleed to the Red Zone Channel. It's the only place to escape the relentless onslaught of the political commecials - Red Zone has no commercials.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
If you don't control your own borders, bur instead rely on some external outfit to impose those rules, it's hard to see how 'sovereign' you are as a nation.
Ditto if you also abandon your currency for one imposed by same external outfit.
You'd be sovereign if you had the ability to leave the said outfit.
Hopefully we can depart this useless project without even having to go through a silly "re-negotiation" and referendum.
Farage may actually have to get off the gravy train soon. Who would have thunk it? :^O
I don't think that the present parliament will vote for a simple exit. The LD will not permit it to even come to a vote. The next parliament will be extraordinarily messy with a possible 3 party coalition government having to face another economic crash in europe, so anything before 2020 is unlikely.
We'll it won't be this side of the election, but I'm not sure we'll have to wait many years.
The Europeans don't really want us to stay and the British seem to want to leave.
Looks like we're "consciously uncoupling" to me. Things can move surprisingly quickly when momentum starts to build...
And when its all over? Will it be any different? Only marginally. And it will be moot if it is better - although i could live nwith being in the EEA. We will still be in the single market and subject to EU single market rules, and if we are lucky it will be done quicky and not be disruptive to the economy and our inward investment. This to me is the real point about negotiating first rather than walking out and hoping for something after.
Immigration? Leaving aside whether there will be any real change, just what will be the position of the 2 million British people in the EU? Its all very well ignoring that constituency now (and their relatives & dependants - another 5 million?) but start to change their relationship, start to maybe force them home, start to make working in the EU difficult, and then a whole new area for complaint will emerge.
But then again UKIP are not about the EU they are not about whats good for Britain, they are just a coalition of hate.
I think you've cornered the market on hatred in they way you obsess about UKIP. Its not healthy you know. Ever thought about counselling?
A pathetically miserable non answer. Farage peddles a big lie. So much so that he has descended into giving out hate filled dog whistles. Allowing his own MEP to get away with calling some of their own supporters 'ting tongs' and getting into bed with a Polish neo nazi hardly helps.
When you are in deranged rant mode (most of the time from my observations on here) there is nothing to do but suggest you get counselling
Hopefully we can depart this useless project without even having to go through a silly "re-negotiation" and referendum.
Farage may actually have to get off the gravy train soon. Who would have thunk it? :^O
I don't think that the present parliament will vote for a simple exit. The LD will not permit it to even come to a vote. The next parliament will be extraordinarily messy with a possible 3 party coalition government having to face another economic crash in europe, so anything before 2020 is unlikely.
We'll it won't be this side of the election, but I'm not sure we'll have to wait many years.
The Europeans don't really want us to stay and the British seem to want to leave.
Looks like we're "consciously uncoupling" to me. Things can move surprisingly quickly when momentum starts to build...
ething after.
Immigration? Leaving aside whether there will be any real change, just what will be the position of the 2 million British people in the EU? Its all very well ignoring that constituency now (and their relatives & dependants - another 5 million?) but start to change their relationship, start to maybe force them home, start to make working in the EU difficult, and then a whole new area for complaint will emerge.
But then again UKIP are not about the EU they are not about whats good for Britain, they are just a coalition of hate.
I think you've cornered the market on hatred in they way you obsess about UKIP. Its not healthy you know. Ever thought about counselling?
A pathetically miserable non answer. Farage peddles a big lie. So much so that he has descended into giving out hate filled dog whistles. Allowing his own MEP to get away with calling some of their own supporters 'ting tongs' and getting into bed with a Polish neo nazi hardly helps.
Hate-filled dog-whistles such as UKIP being "full of fruitcakes and loons"?
No dog-whistle there! Just good old fashioned vulgar abuse (if you dispute the analysis.....)
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
If you don't control your own borders, bur instead rely on some external outfit to impose those rules, it's hard to see how 'sovereign' you are as a nation.
Ditto if you also abandon your currency for one imposed by same external outfit.
You'd be sovereign if you had the ability to leave the said outfit.
No, you'd be sovereign if you DID leave the said outfit.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
Incidentally, @Ishmael_X even if I am wrong on the construction point, it is clear that (with the exception of those falling within the law of treason, treason felony and/or the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870), a person serving in the the armed forces of a foreign state would be entitled to claim state immunity in respect of acts committed in his capacity as such, the Pinochet exceptions notwithstanding. The authority for this proposition is unimpeachable, see Jones v Ministry of the Interior of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia [2007] 1 AC 270, per Lord Bingham of Cornhill (HL).
How weird is this - former Governor Zell Miller, who started the HOPE scholarship, has made an ad praising Republican governor Nathan Deal for refunding it. He has also made an ad praising democratic senate candidate Michelle Nunn.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
So you are on record as saying that the EU is NOT bizarre, self-destructive and unreasonable?
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
''The latest estimates released on International Trade in Services (ITIS) indicate that Europe has continued to be the dominant market for both UK exports and imports of services. These services are defined as intangible commodities such as the provision of legal services from overseas. ITIS figures published in February 2013 show that: Total UK exports of services increased from £89.5 billion in 2010 to £97.3 billion in 2011. Total UK imports of services increased from £42.1 billion in 2010 to £43.6 billion in 2011. Europe now accounts for 50% of the total value of UK exports of services and 51% of the total value of UK imports of services.''
In hard goods we export more cars than we import. Try spinning your yarns to the people of Sunderland, Merseyside and the midlands.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
''The latest estimates released on International Trade in Services (ITIS) indicate that Europe has continued to be the dominant market for both UK exports and imports of services. These services are defined as intangible commodities such as the provision of legal services from overseas. ITIS figures published in February 2013 show that: Total UK exports of services increased from £89.5 billion in 2010 to £97.3 billion in 2011. Total UK imports of services increased from £42.1 billion in 2010 to £43.6 billion in 2011. Europe now accounts for 50% of the total value of UK exports of services and 51% of the total value of UK imports of services.''
In hard goods we export more cars than we import. Try spinning your yarns to the people of Sunderland, Merseyside and the midlands.
Are you seriously claiming we dont import more from the eu than we export? Care to back that up with a link.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
''The latest estimates released on International Trade in Services (ITIS) indicate that Europe has continued to be the dominant market for both UK exports and imports of services. These services are defined as intangible commodities such as the provision of legal services from overseas. ITIS figures published in February 2013 show that: Total UK exports of services increased from £89.5 billion in 2010 to £97.3 billion in 2011. Total UK imports of services increased from £42.1 billion in 2010 to £43.6 billion in 2011. Europe now accounts for 50% of the total value of UK exports of services and 51% of the total value of UK imports of services.''
In hard goods we export more cars than we import. Try spinning your yarns to the people of Sunderland, Merseyside and the midlands.
Exactly - you want a free trade agreement, not a parliament, flag, and anthem.
Oddly enought that's exactly how it was originally sold to the UK - a free trade agreement and nothing more.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
''The latest estimates released on International Trade in Services (ITIS) indicate that Europe has continued to be the dominant market for both UK exports and imports of services. These services are defined as intangible commodities such as the provision of legal services from overseas. ITIS figures published in February 2013 show that: Total UK exports of services increased from £89.5 billion in 2010 to £97.3 billion in 2011. Total UK imports of services increased from £42.1 billion in 2010 to £43.6 billion in 2011. Europe now accounts for 50% of the total value of UK exports of services and 51% of the total value of UK imports of services.''
In hard goods we export more cars than we import. Try spinning your yarns to the people of Sunderland, Merseyside and the midlands.
Why do you make it so easy for us to prove what a fool you are? From the department that George Osborne (the Chancellor of the Exchequer dontcha know) is in charge of::
Date: 10 October 2014
In August 2014 the value of imports fell to £15.9bn, while exports also fell to £10.7bn, compared with last month. The difference between EU imports and exports (the trade gap) has decreased to £5.2bn.
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
So you are on record as saying that the EU is NOT bizarre, self-destructive and unreasonable?
Not when its acting in its own self interest it usually isn't (i.e. furthering ever closer union and continental domination). When its dealing with others interests (such as the UK's) then definitely it is. There is a very big difference.
In Q1 2014, the deficit on trade in goods with EU countries was £16.7 billion narrowing by £1.3 billion from a £18.0 billion deficit in Q4 2013.
Exports to the EU decreased by £1.3 billion (3.6%) to £35.8 billion and imports from the EU decreased by £2.6 billion (4.8%) to £52.5 billion. At the commodity level:
That says to me that if we withdraw we have an advantage when negotiating our ongoing relationship of approximately 16.7 billion pounds in size which we can and should use to get a beneficial agreement
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
So you are on record as saying that the EU is NOT bizarre, self-destructive and unreasonable?
Not when its acting in its own self interest it usually isn't (i.e. furthering ever closer union and continental domination). When its dealing with others interests (such as the UK's) then definitely it is. There is a very big difference.
So, in essence what you are saying is that in its own self interest it isn't, but in its members individual interest it is. If it's not operating in its members interests then what is it for?
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
So you are on record as saying that the EU is NOT bizarre, self-destructive and unreasonable?
Not when its acting in its own self interest it usually isn't (i.e. furthering ever closer union and continental domination). When its dealing with others interests (such as the UK's) then definitely it is. There is a very big difference.
So, in essence what you are saying is that in its own self interest it isn't, but in its members individual interest it is. If it's not operating in its members interests then what is it for?
It is for the furtherance of the aims of the brussels bureaucracy just as westminster is the vehicle for the furtherance of the aims of the whitehall bureucrats
So does that mean its non negotiable as far as TTIP is concerned as well because I haven't heard that the US is opening up its borders to Europe?
Or vice-versa.
So what?
So it means the EU is quite willing to enter into trade agreements with sovereign nations that do not involve free movement of Labour. In which case do please explain why they would not be willing to discuss such an arrangement with a sovereign UK (and as UKIP has made clear one outside the EEA/EFTA if such organisations still demand free movement of labour)..
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Regardless of anything what people like Nabavi fail to mention is that we import more from eu countries than we export to them. If we come out it is more to their advantage to continue to trade with us than it is ours. That to me as least says that we have an advantage in negotiating the relationship we want
Indeed, the idea that the EU will make all sorts of bizarre, self destructive and unreasonable demands during withdrawal negotiations is amongst the most ridiculous pieces of scaremongering yet devised by the pro-European lobby.
So you are on record as saying that the EU is NOT bizarre, self-destructive and unreasonable?
Not when its acting in its own self interest it usually isn't (i.e. furthering ever closer union and continental domination). When its dealing with others interests (such as the UK's) then definitely it is. There is a very big difference.
So, in essence what you are saying is that in its own self interest it isn't, but in its members individual interest it is. If it's not operating in its members interests then what is it for?
Well indeed some of us have been trying to work that out for decades. Personally I have come to the conclusion that it is an exercise in glorious narcissistic vanity for the European political elite with a dash of megalomania on the side for good measure. After what it has done to Greece it can be little else.
There is a game-theoretic sense in which exit is a repeated game for the EU but a once-off game for the UK. Whereas the UK would suffer little reputational harm from the negotiations themselves after already announcing its desire to repudiate the various treaties, the EU certainly could. If costs of exit proved to be low, it would eventually be rational for every country to exit when circumstances were right. Therefore, in so far as EU electorates and countries want to keep the union, they would negotiate precedents that give EU membership meaningful benefits.
Comments
* I know it isn't as black and white as this, but that is how anybody glancing at the chart will see it.
"So Darling joins Alan Milburn, James Purnell, Jim Murphy and Alan Johnson as a competent Labour centrist who has concluded that life is too short to play a bit part in Ed Miliband’s sorry pantomime. It’s a shame: Miliband needs people like Darling around. But the feeling is certainly not mutual."
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/11/goodnight-darling-alistair-darling-leaves-milibands-sinking-ship/
You can stay in London far far cheaper though.
Or Lord North in 1782 during the american war of independence.
When you get to the checkout sales tax is added and is itemized on the receipt, so you always know how much tax you've paid. In my case it's usually 6% but is much lower on food and clothing.
You start doing that with the usurious VAT rate you pay there and it won't last long. When I bought a car over there about 15 years ago I compared the UK price with the US price. The US price was much lower - about 15% - for a German made car. That's gouging by any standard.
When VAT was introduced into the UK it was explained as being cheaper than the sales tax it replaced which was iirc about 10%, due to how it was applied. It didn't take long to realize we'd been fooled again by another European wheeze.
"Sleepy Suffolk gets a taste of the erotic
If you want to see how much the Tory Party has changed, go to quintessentially Olde English Bury St Edmunds in Suffolk on Tuesday.
Favourite to succeed retiring local Conservative MP David Ruffley is the exotically named Zehra Zaidi – a young law student and human rights worker with family roots in India and Pakistan. She speaks French, Urdu and Italian – very handy when buying turnips in the town market."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2817379/No-Miliband-brothers-Ed-busy-David-looks-likely-stay-New-York-BLACK-DOG.html
Not so good on the income tax. Need to work in Washington, shop in Oregon.
Would you accept the surrender of your enemies, secure them and then shoot them? And then shoot the witnesses?
I am far from clear that the film, excellent though it might have been, was a true reflection of historical fact, so the questions it might want to ask were somewhat flawed. If you murder prisoners because you (wrongly and irrationally) believed that your friend and commanding officer had himself been murdered, then you are not being made a 'scapegoat'. It is a significantly different matter than refusing to accept a surrender due to the nature of the enemy you were fighting.
At least my poll that showed that 69% wanted to leave the euro is 11 months old.
You see a lot can change in a year, and since I got the newest poll I win the argument.
http://www.kempinski.com/en/istanbul/ciragan-palace/welcome/
And guess what as these latest headlines demonstrate they are the gifts that keep on giving. What better than a German Chancellor laying down the law to a British Prime Minister who in turn seems to be desperate to appease her?
So long as they continue to record tax credits as negative revenue rather than welfare spending it's entirely misleading
Are you French?
This is going on a bit more than it deserves to. You think Ireland might possibly leave the EU before the UK. I politely suggest that you havent the first clue about how Irish people would vote on such a proposition in the extremely unlikely event it was ever put to them. But each to their own opinion.
Property taxes in Florida are extortionate as a result.
Luckily most folks there are old from the northeast where taxes are high anyway.
twitter.com/NewhamCons/status/529004131760230400
https://twitter.com/FestusAkin
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817630/Cameron-forced-tear-plan-cap-EU-migration-Merkel-warns-point-no-return-Britain.html
But I do like Inspector Maigret, Bruno Cremer was excellent in the role.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817750/Prescott-slams-pointy-heads-running-Labour-polls-Miliband-unpopular-CLEGG.html
https://www.facebook.com/Burton.UKIP/posts/1963197403820027
Their candidate in 2010 was Steve Povey who sadly died of cancer in 2011.
A useful result in my part of the world.
Now can you explain how on earth Nigel Farage is going to negotiate anything different when he comes to discuss EXACTLY the same issues with our EU friends to get a trade treaty with access to the Single Market?
If it's non-negotiable it's non-negotiable. So by your reasoning we're stuck with it, like the Swiss and the Norwegians are.
Better get used to it in that case.
Do you always prattle on in precious drivel?
It does raise some disturbing questions, given KItchener's actions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker_Morant_(film)
So what?
"Scape goating" and cover-ups are a fine tradition in military and political tactics.
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.115707446#id=1.115707446
https://www.airbnb.co.uk
I think Farage would answer your point by saying that you simply can't claim that staying in but compromising the free movement point, and negotiating a wholly new agreement from the outside, are EXACTLY the same issue. The South Koreans seem to have managed what Farage wants (i appreciate there are answers to that).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker_Morant
Really? So Brown plotting against Blair does not count?
Mrs Thatcher's problems (thats the lady who took us into the EU free market of goods services and people) came from the so called poll tax.
The Tories won the subsequent election, but I do not think any of us should be surprised at kippers rewriting history.
There is a fair argument to make that Thatcher should not have resigned, but in April 1990 her ratings were 23%. Soon after the Tories lost Mid Staffordshire (turning a 15000 majority into a 9500 deficit) with 90% of defectors saying she had lost her way. You could argue that the angel of death subsequently visited upon Mid Staffs in retribution, you can like or not like Thatcher - I like her, but its silly to blame her foolish mistakes on other people.
http://www.dover-express.co.uk/Ukip-s-Little-Bono-Bongo-map-storm/story-23953024-detail/story.html
The idea that the EU would want to impose free movement on a sovereign nation outside the EEA/EU (until the Swiss quota scenario is resolved its unclear what the status is in EFTA) seems somewhat bizarre anyway. Why would the EU want to readily supply supposedly cheap labour or quality skills to a competitor nation as a generic practice?
Only the delusional believe it's their sole preserve.
Ditto if you also abandon your currency for one imposed by same external outfit.
I honestly laughed when I read that - free publicity for Marf and PB.com
http://www.women2win.com/events/fundraiser-nus-ghani-parliamentary-candidate-wealden-2015
"Fundraiser for Nus Ghani, Parliamentary Candidate for Wealden 2015"
Date: Monday, 10th November 2014
Time: 6.45pm - 8pm
Venue - 34 Smith Square, Westminster, London SW1P 3HL
At the Ellwood Atfield Gallery, exhibiting Royalty, Politics and War photojournalism"
The bottom line is that it doesn't matter who Labour put in charge, they have serious Scottish problems next May.
Failing governments frequently lash out and one that had just lost Catalonia might see Gib as a modest consolation prize......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-28840210
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-29874053
They only got back into power in 2010 off the back of the worst financial crisis in 80 years and the worst Parliamentary scandal in modern history and then it was not decisive. They had to turn to the Libdems and they have been squabbling and plotting against each other ever since. They are unable to win a majority, effectively dead in large parts of the country and are looking like they may well be thrown out again in 2015. You could not make up the mess the Tory party is in!
Ting Tong was a character invented by the BBC's Little Britain sketch show.
How is the Polish MEP a neo-Nazi?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Sunday_Ticket#Red_Zone_Channel
If you can't laugh at yourself, others will cheerfully do it for you.
ITIS figures published in February 2013 show that:
Total UK exports of services increased from £89.5 billion in 2010 to £97.3 billion in 2011.
Total UK imports of services increased from £42.1 billion in 2010 to £43.6 billion in 2011.
Europe now accounts for 50% of the total value of UK exports of services and 51% of the total value of UK imports of services.''
In hard goods we export more cars than we import. Try spinning your yarns to the people of Sunderland, Merseyside and the midlands.
Oddly enought that's exactly how it was originally sold to the UK - a free trade agreement and nothing more.
Having said that I still expect him to get re-elected in May.
Date: 10 October 2014
In August 2014 the value of imports fell to £15.9bn, while exports also fell to £10.7bn, compared with last month. The difference between EU imports and exports (the trade gap) has decreased to £5.2bn.
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/EUOverseasTrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx
Check the graph out. The balance of trade has been in deficit for over a year now......
Here I have saved you the trouble
here is a link
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/uktrade/uk-trade/march-2014/stb-uk-trade--march-2014.html#tab-Trade-in-Goods---EU-Analysis
here is a quote from the synopsis
In Q1 2014, the deficit on trade in goods with EU countries was £16.7 billion narrowing by £1.3 billion from a £18.0 billion deficit in Q4 2013.
Exports to the EU decreased by £1.3 billion (3.6%) to £35.8 billion and imports from the EU decreased by £2.6 billion (4.8%) to £52.5 billion. At the commodity level:
That says to me that if we withdraw we have an advantage when negotiating our ongoing relationship of approximately 16.7 billion pounds in size which we can and should use to get a beneficial agreement
Maybe one for the SeparatedByACommonLanguage blog:
http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.co.uk/