The amount of naked attack pieces on UKIP in the press is really quite staggering. I think UKIP deeply worries alot of journos and their anxiety is palpable.
Perhaps they are concerned that drinking a pint and being against fuzzy wuzzies from bongo bongo land isn't a serious party for government ?
Mike Read should apologise for his role in one of the worst bit of music in living memory.
When even I say the song is bad, you know it's a terrible song, up there with Joe Dolce or Renée & Renato or Daphne & Celeste
I like "Save Your Love". It's great for karaoke. But I don't think that UKIP would approve of "save your love for Roma and for me". They're not too keen on the Roma.
I don't think they'd approve of the line
"The reddest rose I always bring you"
or the bit they talk in Jonny Foreigner language, given Nigel Farage's view on Foreign Languages on the trains.
The Johnny Foreigner stuff has always been my beef with Abba.
First the excruciating Schwarzeneggereque accents: "When I keessed the teachah".
Then the excruciating grammar: "No more ace to play"; "There's not I think a single episode of Dallas that I didn't see".
Then the excruciating popspeak: "Feeling blue". "I was blue".
It was only ever OKish bland background noise. I am baffled by the fuss.
1. It is music. 2. They sound foreign because they are foreign. 3. Neither grammatical error you cite is a grammatical error. 4. Is "Satisfaction" rubbish because MJ does not sing "I cannot get any satisfaction"?
1. Debatable 2. And they sound funny. 3. I actually said it was excruciating. I am fairly sure "more ace" is grammatically incorrect, though. In either case why not consult with a native speaker and get it right? What's wrong with "No ace left to play" or "I don't think there's a single episode of Dallas that I haven't seen", which both scan and mean the same thing? 4. No, because whereas lots of people say "I can't get no...", only Abba ever "feel blue". As a piece of purported English, this may exist in some Swedish school textbook on the English language, but it doesn't exist in the wild.
Del Shannon felt blue in "Black is Black".
As did the Beatles, Depeche Mode, Billy Bragg & the Blokes, Nina Simone, Dean Martin, Arlo Guthrie, Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra, among many others... http://www.lyrics.net/lyrics/"feel blue"
Mike Read should apologise for his role in one of the worst bit of music in living memory.
When even I say the song is bad, you know it's a terrible song, up there with Joe Dolce or Renée & Renato or Daphne & Celeste
I like "Save Your Love". It's great for karaoke. But I don't think that UKIP would approve of "save your love for Roma and for me". They're not too keen on the Roma.
I don't think they'd approve of the line
"The reddest rose I always bring you"
or the bit they talk in Jonny Foreigner language, given Nigel Farage's view on Foreign Languages on the trains.
The Johnny Foreigner stuff has always been my beef with Abba.
First the excruciating Schwarzeneggereque accents: "When I keessed the teachah".
Then the excruciating grammar: "No more ace to play"; "There's not I think a single episode of Dallas that I didn't see".
Then the excruciating popspeak: "Feeling blue". "I was blue".
It was only ever OKish bland background noise. I am baffled by the fuss.
1. It is music. 2. They sound foreign because they are foreign. 3. Neither grammatical error you cite is a grammatical error. 4. Is "Satisfaction" rubbish because MJ does not sing "I cannot get any satisfaction"?
1. Debatable 2. And they sound funny. 3. I actually said it was excruciating. I am fairly sure "more ace" is grammatically incorrect, though. In either case why not consult with a native speaker and get it right? What's wrong with "No ace left to play" or "I don't think there's a single episode of Dallas that I haven't seen", which both scan and mean the same thing? 4. No, because whereas lots of people say "I can't get no...", only Abba ever "feel blue". As a piece of purported English, this may exist in some Swedish school textbook on the English language, but it doesn't exist in the wild.
Del Shannon felt blue in "Black is Black".
As did the Beatles, Depeche Mode, Billy Bragg & the Blokes, Nina Simone, Dean Martin, Arlo Guthrie, Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra, among many others... http://www.lyrics.net/lyrics/"feel blue"
I see that kippers have reached level 3 of the true believer module, where every piece of news is interpreted as good news.
They are getting more and more like the cyberNats every day.
I've just realised, if and when do you have an in/out referendum, and if in wins, the Kippers just won't let it lie.
As Mike said, recently he's learnt that 45% represents a majority.
So which kipper is going to be the James Kelly, and which the malcolmg?
I think isam has to be in the running for JK; he's quite insightful, gets in silly arguments and seems to get himself occasionally banned. All we need now is for him to set up his own website and start insulting you an Mike on it. Then he can achieve PBKipper martyrdom.
Any takers for the kipper-malcolmg? You'll need some highly amusing insults to repeat ad infinitum and (obviously) a severe persecution complex
The kippers are in my non-kipper view, on average the most polite and reasonable of the four main political groupings on here (that's SNP Lab Con and Ukip - LD are nice as pie but statistically insignificant), in the face of enormous provocation. It's very telling that the main attack line is not to say they are nasty n orrible - cos they plainly aren't - but to try to assimilate them to the entirely irrelevant SNP on the grounds - if there are any at all - that both parties want a referendum about something, and deduce that they must be nasty n orrible because the SNP were.
Isam, if you think, that the supplementary polling that shows UKIP are the most disliked party, is also the most extreme, least fit to govern party is good polling, especially when tactical anti-UKIP voting is likely at the next election, then I can't help you.
I do wonder which politician would top both the most liked and disliked list of the eighties in the UK...
Being disliked in politics is no barrier to success.
The amount of naked attack pieces on UKIP in the press is really quite staggering. I think UKIP deeply worries a lot of journos and their anxiety is palpable.
I wonder if TSE and others like him, kneel by their beds at night and pray to God not to make UKIP any larger.
They certainly seem to be praying thus, when on PB all day.
There are certainly many prayers said to prevent Ed Miliband becoming PM - unlike in the Farage house where he would be popping champagne corks : "Damn the country - its all good for me..."
I wonder if TSE and others like him, kneel by their beds at night and pray to God not to make UKIP any larger.
They certainly seem to be praying thus, when on PB all day.
There are certainly many prayers said to prevent Ed Miliband becoming PM - unlike in the Farage house where he would be popping champagne corks : "Damn the country - its all good for me..."
You and the other PB Tories have to ask yourselves why might Kippers and potential Kippers want to vote for UKIP instead of your party.
The amount of naked attack pieces on UKIP in the press is really quite staggering. I think UKIP deeply worries a lot of journos and their anxiety is palpable.
The amount of naked attack pieces on UKIP in the press is really quite staggering. I think UKIP deeply worries alot of journos and their anxiety is palpable.
It is odd. You'd think journalists as a group would like the unpredictability UKIP's rise adds to the election.
If Mr Goodwin can get two books out of UKIP's rise, journalists should be able to come up with a slew of new articles on the causes and consequences of it.
I see that kippers have reached level 3 of the true believer module, where every piece of news is interpreted as good news.
They are getting more and more like the cyberNats every day.
I've just realised, if and when do you have an in/out referendum, and if in wins, the Kippers just won't let it lie.
As Mike said, recently he's learnt that 45% represents a majority.
So which kipper is going to be the James Kelly, and which the malcolmg?
I think isam has to be in the running for JK; he's quite insightful, gets in silly arguments and seems to get himself occasionally banned. All we need now is for him to set up his own website and start insulting you an Mike on it. Then he can achieve PBKipper martyrdom.
Any takers for the kipper-malcolmg? You'll need some highly amusing insults to repeat ad infinitum and (obviously) a severe persecution complex
Clearly a nonsense point on here since both Richard Tyndall and I have criticised Farage over several issues. When do the Tory loyalists criticise Cameron?
Isam, if you think, that the supplementary polling that shows UKIP are the most disliked party, is also the most extreme, least fit to govern party is good polling, especially when tactical anti-UKIP voting is likely at the next election, then I can't help you.
The trouble is though UKIP are growing in terms of membership, support and influence. You may not like that and you can produce what supplementary polling you like but it doesn't change the fact that UKIP are now in Parliament and are likely to win some more seats at the next GE. Re-running the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists line twenty times a day is not going to make any difference. It didn't work when Cameron first tried it and its not going to work now.
I was arguing about this with someone recently. They were a proper leftie and were worried that if the BBC keep giving UKIP free publicity (WHY ARE THEY EVEN IN THE NEWS! UKIP ARE NOT NEWS! PEOPLE SHOULD STOP REPORTING THEM! THE BBC ARE RIGHT-WING C**TS!! ... that type of leftie) then they might win the next election. I said I'd be very surprised if they got more than 10 seats, even if they scored in the mid-teens the polls. The negative suppementaries are important because they suggest that not only will UKIP struggle under the FPTP system, there is also going to be tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of their target seats. I may be a little biased as I voted tactically against them in the local elections, but I know other people who did likewise. Anecdata apology.
Also, the very negative ratings for "most disliked" and "least fit to govern" make it very unlikely they will make a further breakthrough to the kind of score that would leave them comparably important as Labour and the Tories, though in the long-run it's possible to imagine them joining the Lib Dems as a "second third party". I can't see them displacing the Lib Dems because they are operating in very different niches, and have different target markets both in electoral segments and geography. Perhaps the Lib Dems will manage to implode on their own, without help from UKIP but they've been fairly united recently, which augurs well as a serious schism on their part could finish them forever, and like many on here I think their current poll ratings are a misleading guide to the number of seats they will win.
I see that kippers have reached level 3 of the true believer module, where every piece of news is interpreted as good news.
They are getting more and more like the cyberNats every day.
I've just realised, if and when do you have an in/out referendum, and if in wins, the Kippers just won't let it lie.
As Mike said, recently he's learnt that 45% represents a majority.
So which kipper is going to be the James Kelly, and which the malcolmg?
I think isam has to be in the running for JK; he's quite insightful, gets in silly arguments and seems to get himself occasionally banned. All we need now is for him to set up his own website and start insulting you an Mike on it. Then he can achieve PBKipper martyrdom.
Any takers for the kipper-malcolmg? You'll need some highly amusing insults to repeat ad infinitum and (obviously) a severe persecution complex
I think I'm a shoo-in for the malcolmg position.
That's a poor application for the job; where's the insult?
Isam, if you think, that the supplementary polling that shows UKIP are the most disliked party, is also the most extreme, least fit to govern party is good polling, especially when tactical anti-UKIP voting is likely at the next election, then I can't help you.
I don't want your help!
And I think you are hopelessly wrong regarding tactical voting
But as a Ukip supporter I think the polls are better then I could possibly have hoped for 12 months ago... Your desperate digging for the bits that aren't as good are minor quibbles
"The shadow business secretary suggested Ukip is not judged on the same terms as mainstream parties, saying that racism had been “priced in” by critics."
"The shadow business secretary suggested Ukip is not judged on the same terms as mainstream parties, saying that racism had been “priced in” by critics."
I can't remember when Chukka Umunna criticised the racism of Diane Abbott ("white people love to play divide and rule", "I'm not going to comment about whether West Indian mothers love their children more"), or called the 9/11 deniers and terrorists in Labour's EP grouping "abhorrent".
Also, I note this comment: "the kind of things you hear people saying about eastern Europeans these days is exactly the kinds of things they were saying about black and Asian people when they first arrived in this country."
Really? When? I've heard plenty of criticism about European immigration, but I don't think I've ever heard people make ethnic slurs about Poles and Lithuanians. Can Chukka Umunna provide any evidence of these claims? Or is he just making up racial prejudice in an effort to smear UKIP?
It's very sad to see someone like Chukka Umunna, who has a lot going for him, sinking into playing the race card.
You shouldn't believe everything that's written about him on Wiki ;-)
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 · Oct 15 #UKIP also first in aggregate vote for GB by-elections in 2013 - Eastleigh and South Shields: UKIP 26.5%, Lab 25.0%.
It seems dis UKIP song has had an effect Some folk tink it shows plenty disrespeck But dems all fools, dem make me mad Dat liberal elite, it's evil and bad
Tra-la-lee ...
Disgraceful – I’ve not been so outraged since Julie Andrews sang the 'Sound of Music' – hah, an Austrian nun indeed….!
Dat Julie Andrews, de singin' nun Bad Nazis wanted to stop her fun Now dem Nazis rule de E-U Dat ain't no fun for me or for you
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 · Oct 12 #UKIP "first past the post" in aggregate vote across Westminster by-elections in 2014 so far: UKIP 37, Lab 28, Con 26
This may reflect dislike of UKIP among the non-UKIP inclined. The thinking may be: "If UKIP is for it I am against it."
Agree that that's the likely cause. I think there's a big toxicity about UKIP right now where there are a lot of anti-UKIP agenda items in the press, and electoral rules mean they don't have a big enough media presence to refute that image. Once UKIP surpass the Lib Dems in vote share and get a half dozen seats at the next election, that will hopefully change.
It's also worth bearing in mind this is a poll after Cameron has been in the news about limiting EU migration as his main repatriation. I can imagine these numbers changing if he can't do that effectively.
I was arguing about this with someone recently. They were a proper leftie and were worried that if the BBC keep giving UKIP free publicity (WHY ARE THEY EVEN IN THE NEWS! UKIP ARE NOT NEWS! PEOPLE SHOULD STOP REPORTING THEM! THE BBC ARE RIGHT-WING C**TS!! ... that type of leftie) then they might win the next election. I said I'd be very surprised if they got more than 10 seats, even if they scored in the mid-teens the polls. The negative suppementaries are important because they suggest that not only will UKIP struggle under the FPTP system, there is also going to be tactical anti-UKIP voting in some of their target seats. I may be a little biased as I voted tactically against them in the local elections, but I know other people who did likewise. Anecdata apology.
Also, the very negative ratings for "most disliked" and "least fit to govern" make it very unlikely they will make a further breakthrough to the kind of score that would leave them comparably important as Labour and the Tories, though in the long-run it's possible to imagine them joining the Lib Dems as a "second third party". I can't see them displacing the Lib Dems because they are operating in very different niches, and have different target markets both in electoral segments and geography. Perhaps the Lib Dems will manage to implode on their own, without help from UKIP but they've been fairly united recently, which augurs well as a serious schism on their part could finish them forever, and like many on here I think their current poll ratings are a misleading guide to the number of seats they will win.
Mr. Ears, I wouldn't disagree with much of that, though I think tactical voting is much over done on this site, and personally I would be very surprised if UKIP got more than half a dozen seats next year. However, it is early days and the perceived wisdom has been proved wrong more than once (wasn't UKIP support supposed to fade away after the Euros?).
What I don't think is in doubt is that UKIP has changed politics in the run up to the GE. Whether they are a flash in the pan movement who will fade away like the SDP we don't know. I think it unlikely in the short term because they are giving a voice to people that the mainstream prefer to ignore not all of whom are not fuitcakes, loonies and closet racists.
It seems dis UKIP song has had an effect Some folk tink it shows plenty disrespeck But dems all fools, dem make me mad Dat liberal elite, it's evil and bad
Tra-la-lee ...
Disgraceful – I’ve not been so outraged since Julie Andrews sang the 'Sound of Music' – hah, an Austrian nun indeed….!
Dat Julie Andrews, de singin' nun Bad Nazis wanted to stop her fun Now dem Nazis rule de E-U Dat ain't no fun for me or for you
"Hello, Nigel here ... could you release a single for UKIP please "
To be fair, a better talent for lyrics than drought predictions :-)
Dan Hodges is tweeting that support for the EU is the highest since 1991, citing an Ipsos Mori poll.
So what's with UKIP...??
I've often argued that UKIP supporters complain about problems that pulling out of Europe simply would not solve at all (eg Rotherham).
That, and most of the things that concern the electorate most (immigration etc) are totally intertwined with the EU, but the main political parties are desperate to not make that link.
The public are still divided over the detail of what Britain’s role in Europe should be, however. One in three (34%) would like Britain to be a part of an economic community without political links, while 29% would like Britain’s relationship with Europe to stay broadly the same as it is now. One in six (17%) would prefer to leave the EU altogether, while 14% would like to move into closer political and economic integration with EU member states.
UKIP need to wake up to this. We need to frame leaving the EU as "going back to a purely economic relationship". This is the middle way that the British people want. It also will reassure big business.
Other make up the balance - including imports from France (88% nuclear 12% hydroelectric) Holland
Although wind is now quite high (and expected to remain so for several months), it should be noted that in May, June and early September there was hardly any wind generation.
you can also see the reduction in power by CCGT stations reflecting the recent fire and reduction in nuclear production casued by problems at a couple of stations.
I guess its influence. Many journos see themselves as part of the Westminster Village. UKIP would probably freeze them out more.
UKIP would certainly not freeze journalists out but they probably would make them more accountable for their actions and the veracity of their stories.
This may reflect dislike of UKIP among the non-UKIP inclined. The thinking may be: "If UKIP is for it I am against it."
Agree that that's the likely cause. I think there's a big toxicity about UKIP right now where there are a lot of anti-UKIP agenda items in the press, and electoral rules mean they don't have a big enough media presence to refute that image. Once UKIP surpass the Lib Dems in vote share and get a half dozen seats at the next election, that will hopefully change.
It's also worth bearing in mind this is a poll after Cameron has been in the news about limiting EU migration as his main repatriation. I can imagine these numbers changing if he can't do that effectively.
Also the real reason for UKIPs rise is not Europe or even Immigration, it's about the state of the UK as a land, country and society. Once that is factored in, the rise of UKIP is very explainable.
I guess its influence. Many journos see themselves as part of the Westminster Village. UKIP would probably freeze them out more.
UKIP would certainly not freeze journalists out but they probably would make them more accountable for their actions and the veracity of their stories.
Such as those concerning Farage helping attractive, disabled ladies back to their hotels late at night?
"You can't write that about the glorious leader. Big Nigel is watching you"
Comments
They certainly seem to be praying thus, when on PB all day.
http://www.lyrics.net/lyrics/"feel blue"
*like*
Being disliked in politics is no barrier to success.
What are they worried about?
If Mr Goodwin can get two books out of UKIP's rise, journalists should be able to come up with a slew of new articles on the causes and consequences of it.
Pulpstar said journos, not tories.
I guess its influence. Many journos see themselves as part of the Westminster Village. UKIP would probably freeze them out more.
Also, the very negative ratings for "most disliked" and "least fit to govern" make it very unlikely they will make a further breakthrough to the kind of score that would leave them comparably important as Labour and the Tories, though in the long-run it's possible to imagine them joining the Lib Dems as a "second third party". I can't see them displacing the Lib Dems because they are operating in very different niches, and have different target markets both in electoral segments and geography. Perhaps the Lib Dems will manage to implode on their own, without help from UKIP but they've been fairly united recently, which augurs well as a serious schism on their part could finish them forever, and like many on here I think their current poll ratings are a misleading guide to the number of seats they will win.
And I think you are hopelessly wrong regarding tactical voting
But as a Ukip supporter I think the polls are better then I could possibly have hoped for 12 months ago... Your desperate digging for the bits that aren't as good are minor quibbles
So what's with UKIP...??
I've often argued that UKIP supporters complain about problems that pulling out of Europe simply would not solve at all (eg Rotherham).
@IanDunt: Polls make it obvious. Ukip is the worst thing which could have happened to the British eurosceptic movement.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/sentamu-my-shame-over-cathedral-child-sex-scandal-1-6909936
#UKIP also first in aggregate vote for GB by-elections in 2013 - Eastleigh and South Shields: UKIP 26.5%, Lab 25.0%.
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/522346349850017792
#UKIP "first past the post" in aggregate vote across Westminster by-elections in 2014 so far: UKIP 37, Lab 28, Con 26
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/521313156636098560
"Wind power's ascendancy over nuclear is expected to be temporary."
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3463/Support-for-EU-membership-highest-for-23-years-even-as-UKIP-rises-in-the-polls.aspx
The real reason Nige wants Ed to win? With Dave he would lose?
Hmnn.
I wonder why UKIP is so popular at the same time as this poll, though.
Unless UKIP isn't really about Europe.
#UKIP vote exceeds 50% in aggregate vote at Heywood and Clacton by-elections: UKIP 50.4%, Lab 24.4%, Con 19%, LD 3%
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/521319049847115776
It's also worth bearing in mind this is a poll after Cameron has been in the news about limiting EU migration as his main repatriation. I can imagine these numbers changing if he can't do that effectively.
What I don't think is in doubt is that UKIP has changed politics in the run up to the GE. Whether they are a flash in the pan movement who will fade away like the SDP we don't know. I think it unlikely in the short term because they are giving a voice to people that the mainstream prefer to ignore not all of whom are not fuitcakes, loonies and closet racists.
To be fair, a better talent for lyrics than drought predictions :-)
The public are still divided over the detail of what Britain’s role in Europe should be, however. One in three (34%) would like Britain to be a part of an economic community without political links, while 29% would like Britain’s relationship with Europe to stay broadly the same as it is now. One in six (17%) would prefer to leave the EU altogether, while 14% would like to move into closer political and economic integration with EU member states.
UKIP need to wake up to this. We need to frame leaving the EU as "going back to a purely economic relationship". This is the middle way that the British people want. It also will reassure big business.
Mass immigration? No.
Political integration? No.
Free trade? Yes!
Only by leaving the European Union can we go back to an economic community.
In an in/out referendum, their preferred "part of an economic community without political links" option would be more like 'out', than 'in'.
As this is a betting blog, how many seats do you expect UKIP to win at GE so I can look for value bets?
Coal 34.64%
Gas: 32.85%
Nuclear: 11.23%
Wind : 11.13%
Other make up the balance - including imports from France (88% nuclear 12% hydroelectric) Holland
Although wind is now quite high (and expected to remain so for several months), it should be noted that in May, June and early September there was hardly any wind generation.
you can also see the reduction in power by CCGT stations reflecting the recent fire and reduction in nuclear production casued by problems at a couple of stations.
"You can't write that about the glorious leader. Big Nigel is watching you"
Mike Smithson is openly a Liberal Democrat.
Perhaps that makes him non political.