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  • Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4

    See, for all the froth and breathlessness on pb that's hardly a massive UKIP breakthrough. It's only going to get tougher for them next year.
    Yes, and with only 28% of current-Con thinking about voting UKIP, they really can't hope for much over 30% on their best day. Doomed.
    Yea, it all goes to show how unpopular UKIP have become.
    Given the Comres polling I expect Cameron to try and rush through a change to a two page ballot paper so that only the Tories, Labour and Libdems appear on the first page of the ballot and all the other parties appear on the second page!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Back in May ComRes online recorded the biggest UKIP share, 38%, in the Euros. Final poll had it on 33%. The party actually got 27%.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    PaulMidBeds So neither Tories nor Labour would have a majority, nor would Tories and Liberals, Labour and LDs might but dependent on SNP and UKIP seats
  • @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    isam said:

    I know Labour supporters did that in some places to keep out the BNP. however again. Holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out Neonazis is one thing, holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out a party thats on the same spectrum as the Tories but not full of upper class twits is another

    What polling evidence do you have that Lab voters think UKIP is "on the same spectrum as Tories"?

    This suggests not:

    Lab Voters think the party is extreme:
    Con:,37
    Lab: 84
    And do you seriously think that if Labour voters had been asked the question "Are the Tory Party extreme?" much less than 84% of people would say yes?

    Err they did ask that question.

    You Kippers are really into polling denial aren't you.
    Haven't the polls been awful for us recently?
    As all the polling past and present shows, about half of the voters won't make up their mind until the campaign begins/are ready to change their mind, these supplementaries are useful to see how they will break closer to the election.
    Polling shows about half of voters say they won't make up their mind.

    Personally I'm rather skeptical that anything like that number have a realistic prospect of changing.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Back in May ComRes online recorded the biggest UKIP share, 38%, in the Euros. Final poll had it on 33%. The party actually got 27%.

    So we should ignore this poll, and just look at the other best ever UKIP numbers the other pollsters have produced this week?
  • corporeal said:

    isam said:

    I know Labour supporters did that in some places to keep out the BNP. however again. Holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out Neonazis is one thing, holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out a party thats on the same spectrum as the Tories but not full of upper class twits is another

    What polling evidence do you have that Lab voters think UKIP is "on the same spectrum as Tories"?

    This suggests not:

    Lab Voters think the party is extreme:
    Con:,37
    Lab: 84
    And do you seriously think that if Labour voters had been asked the question "Are the Tory Party extreme?" much less than 84% of people would say yes?

    Err they did ask that question.

    You Kippers are really into polling denial aren't you.
    Haven't the polls been awful for us recently?
    As all the polling past and present shows, about half of the voters won't make up their mind until the campaign begins/are ready to change their mind, these supplementaries are useful to see how they will break closer to the election.
    Polling shows about half of voters say they won't make up their mind.

    Personally I'm rather skeptical that anything like that number have a realistic prospect of changing.
    There's so many different variables in this election, I can believe it this time around.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,380

    surbiton said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Baxterised ?
    The 31/29/24 poll gives

    C 289
    L 307
    LD 20
    UKIP 5

    I think if UKIP get 24% they will get a lot more than 5 and they wont get any of the 5 seats Baxter suggests they will ie

    Argyll & Bute
    Cambridgeshire (Hupperts Seat !)
    Gordon
    Inverness Nairn Badenoch and Strathspey
    Devon North (well maybe)

    Baxters methodology seems to have UKIP as a some sort of Anti Liberal (in the sense of Antimatter) vote.
    What was that about fruitcakes?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2014

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I know Labour supporters did that in some places to keep out the BNP. however again. Holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out Neonazis is one thing, holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out a party thats on the same spectrum as the Tories but not full of upper class twits is another

    What polling evidence do you have that Lab voters think UKIP is "on the same spectrum as Tories"?

    This suggests not:

    Lab Voters think the party is extreme:
    Con:,37
    Lab: 84
    And do you seriously think that if Labour voters had been asked the question "Are the Tory Party extreme?" much less than 84% of people would say yes?

    Err they did ask that question.

    You Kippers are really into polling denial aren't you.
    Haven't the polls been awful for us recently?
    As all the polling past and present shows, about half of the voters won't make up their mind until the campaign begins/are ready to change their mind, these supplementaries are useful to see how they will break closer to the election.
    Would love it if half the voters do change their mind
    Bad news for you lot, is that history shows they tend to go back to the government of the day.
    Swingback?!

    When you look at the breakdowns from Ashcroft polls of the % of voters from each party who would consider changing their mind, if they all did, it would be better for the small parties than the big 2

    Still the twisting on here that the polls are bad for UKIP at the moment is good value entertainment, keep it coming!
    You keep on engaging in polling denying, I'm loving it, it reminds me of the Kippers in Kilts.

    http://may2015.com/ideas/what-does-history-suggest-will-happen-in-the-polls/
    What am I denying?
  • Yay that ComRes shows we're becoming more Pro-EU.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited October 2014
    Significant movement on acceptance of freedom of movement - still net negative, but well ahead of last year.

    All citizens of the EU should have the right to live & work in the UK -
    net agree (vs Aug 12): -10 (+24)
  • @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Back in May ComRes online recorded the biggest UKIP share, 38%, in the Euros. Final poll had it on 33%. The party actually got 27%.

    Which record high for UKIP should we take notice of Mike? Help us out!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    "Do you agree or disagree with each of the following statements?
    All citizens of other European Union countries should have the right to live and work in the United Kingdom

    August 2013

    October 2014
    Agree

    23%

    36%
    Disagree

    57%

    46%
    Don’t know

    20%

    19%
    · Half of Labour voters (49%) agree that all citizens of other European Union countries should have the right to live and work in the United Kingdom, 36% disagree. Liberal Democrat voters are also more likely to agree than disagree (59% to 23%).
    · Half of Conservative voters on the other hand disagree with the principle (51%), compared to only a third (33%) who agree. Three quarters of UKIP voters (75%) disagree."

    Source: Comres

    oops ! What's happening here ? We are all Europeans now !
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I know Labour supporters did that in some places to keep out the BNP. however again. Holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out Neonazis is one thing, holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out a party thats on the same spectrum as the Tories but not full of upper class twits is another

    What polling evidence do you have that Lab voters think UKIP is "on the same spectrum as Tories"?

    This suggests not:

    Lab Voters think the party is extreme:
    Con:,37
    Lab: 84
    And do you seriously think that if Labour voters had been asked the question "Are the Tory Party extreme?" much less than 84% of people would say yes?

    Err they did ask that question.

    You Kippers are really into polling denial aren't you.
    Haven't the polls been awful for us recently?
    As all the polling past and present shows, about half of the voters won't make up their mind until the campaign begins/are ready to change their mind, these supplementaries are useful to see how they will break closer to the election.
    Would love it if half the voters do change their mind
    Bad news for you lot, is that history shows they tend to go back to the government of the day.
    Swingback?!

    When you look at the breakdowns from Ashcroft polls of the % of voters from each party who would consider changing their mind, if they all did, it would be better for the small parties than the big 2

    Still the twisting on here that the polls are bad for UKIP at the moment is good value entertainment, keep it coming!
    You keep on engaging in polling denying, I'm loving it, it reminds me of the Kippers in Kilts.

    http://may2015.com/ideas/what-does-history-suggest-will-happen-in-the-polls/
    What am I denying?
    You're ignoring the weight of history and other polls, and fixating on one poll/finding that contradicts all others.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2014

    Significant movement on acceptance of freedom of movement - still net negative, but well ahead of last year.

    All citizens of the EU should have the right to live & work in the UK -
    net agree (vs Aug 12): -10 (+24)

    Cameron swimming against the tide

    So is Farage, but at least he means it
  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    I'm utterly astonished. How can it be. After all the Oracle of Notting Hill has declared that UKIP will suffer mass tactical voting against them. Has to be a rogue poll just has to be. Oh and look at this other detail of how many of each party would not consider voting for any of the other parties (i.e. how many can be considered Loyal)

    Con 51%
    Lab 50%
    LD 36%
    UKIP 68%

    How can that be? We all know that UKIPs vote will collapse when people realise they have to vote for the 'serious parties of government'. The oracle of Notting Hill has declared it so. It is destined to happen.......


  • ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Import is exactly the right word to use for immigrants because they are imported for the benefit of business. Much the same as we are no longer employees but human resources.



  • EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    It is almost like he's forgotten Douglas Carswell's victory speech, which included these fine words

    Ukip that it must reach out to all communities as he called for it to be the “party for all Britain and all Britons”.....

    “We must be a party for all Britain and all Britons, first and second generation as much as every other. Our strength must lie in our breadth. If we stay true to that there is nothing we cannot achieve.”
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
    [hug] Hang in there TSE. Tomorrow's another day.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,440
    edited October 2014

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
    [hug] Hang in there TSE. Tomorrow's another day.
    So you're not going to comment on the poll finding I highlighted, I'm not surprised.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?

    Of course I have. It leaves me cold. You don't import human beings, you import goods and services.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

    Dirty Racist

    "Manchester United legend Gary Neville thinks Premier League is slowly killing itself with foreign imports "

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-legend-gary-neville-4030557
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
    [hug] Hang in there TSE. Tomorrow's another day.
    So you're not going to comment on the poll finding I highlighted, I'm not surprised.
    That's the spirit!
  • @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
    [hug] Hang in there TSE. Tomorrow's another day.
    So you're not going to comment on the poll finding I highlighted, I'm not surprised.
    That's the spirit!
    So that's a no.

    Keep on pretending the polling doesn't exist, and you'll make an arse of yourself like you did earlier on this afternoon.

    I'm loving it.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    Again, you're reading too much into the question (at least you're not engaging in polling denying this time)

    Perhaps you might offer your thoughts on this

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is dangerous to Britain. agree 43%. disagree 34%.

    Regardless of whether I agree with UKIP, its success is good for British democracy, agree 42%
    disagree 34%
    It's OK to feel hurt. It's not you, it's them. Those Labour types have let you down. Shoddy behaviour.
    I'm not hurt, again, no comment from you on the polling that doesn't show UKIP in a good light. I'm sure in a few weeks time you'll tell us it doesn't exist.
    [hug] Hang in there TSE. Tomorrow's another day.
    So you're not going to comment on the poll finding I highlighted, I'm not surprised.
    That's the spirit!
    So that's a no.

    Keep on pretending the polling doesn't exist, and you'll make an arse of yourself like you did earlier on this afternoon.

    I'm loving it.
    And you should. This is all excellent news. UKIP are toast!

  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited October 2014



    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Good and services and factors of production, Southam. The four commonly agreed factors being land, labour, capital and entrepreneurship.

    Except obviously you can't import land - though actually ... turns out you can. (That's a cracking article by the way.)

    You do occasionally find economists talking about "imported human capital" under the "labour" heading. Perhaps paradoxically it's a dehumanising term, I'll grant you. But nitpicking at the economic terminology employed by Socrates is silly, because in purely economic terms he's right. Sorry. The sentiment, and the factual accuracy of the reasons he purports for the conscious decision-making which produced the current situation (if conscious decision-making there be - I'm sure on many things we got to where we are by historical accident, and migration policy seems to me to be one of them), are contentious and contendable, though.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Filthy racists at The Guardian frothing at the mouth at "Non EU" imports

    Do they mean Africans?

    The Guardian are scum

    "The Football Association has unveiled detailed proposals to reduce the number of imported players coming into the English game from outside the European Union by up to 50%"

    http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/17/fa-non-eu-players-english-football
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

    Dirty Racist

    "Manchester United legend Gary Neville thinks Premier League is slowly killing itself with foreign imports "

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-legend-gary-neville-4030557
    Except Gary Neville never used the word import?

    Is merely the headline writer isn't it?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    I know Labour supporters did that in some places to keep out the BNP. however again. Holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out Neonazis is one thing, holding your nose and voting Tory to keep out a party thats on the same spectrum as the Tories but not full of upper class twits is another

    What polling evidence do you have that Lab voters think UKIP is "on the same spectrum as Tories"?

    This suggests not:

    Lab Voters think the party is extreme:
    Con:,37
    Lab: 84
    And do you seriously think that if Labour voters had been asked the question "Are the Tory Party extreme?" much less than 84% of people would say yes?

    Err they did ask that question.

    You Kippers are really into polling denial aren't you.
    Haven't the polls been awful for us recently?
    As all the polling past and present shows, about half of the voters won't make up their mind until the campaign begins/are ready to change their mind, these supplementaries are useful to see how they will break closer to the election.
    Would love it if half the voters do change their mind
    Bad news for you lot, is that history shows they tend to go back to the government of the day.
    Swingback?!

    When you look at the breakdowns from Ashcroft polls of the % of voters from each party who would consider changing their mind, if they all did, it would be better for the small parties than the big 2

    Still the twisting on here that the polls are bad for UKIP at the moment is good value entertainment, keep it coming!
    You keep on engaging in polling denying, I'm loving it, it reminds me of the Kippers in Kilts.

    http://may2015.com/ideas/what-does-history-suggest-will-happen-in-the-polls/
    What am I denying?
    You're ignoring the weight of history and other polls, and fixating on one poll/finding that contradicts all others.
    I am fixating on what? Voting Intention???!!
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

    It's not racist, I don't think; but talking about importing immigrants does dehumanise them. Immigrants make a choice to come here, they are not the passive, inanimate subjects of other people's decisions.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    This is weird. Prompting for UKIP, also increases the Green's support.

    "Con 31% (+2)
    Lab 34% (-1)
    Lib Dem 7% (0)
    UKIP 19% (0)
    Green 4% (0)
    Other 5% (-1)

    (Change since last month in brackets.)

    This month, ComRes experimented with including UKIP in its main question, instead of listing it under “Other” parties, by splitting the sample and asking half of respondents, “would you vote Conservative, Labour, Liberal Democrat, UKIP or some other party?” The results of this this experiment were as follows:

    Con 29%
    Lab 31%
    LD 7%
    UKIP 24%
    Green 5%
    Other 5%"

    http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2014/10/18/more-labour-voters-seriously-consider-voting-ukip/
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

    Dirty Racist

    "Manchester United legend Gary Neville thinks Premier League is slowly killing itself with foreign imports "

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-legend-gary-neville-4030557
    Except Gary Neville never used the word import?

    Is merely the headline writer isn't it?
    Filthy racist Mirror then
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,695
    edited October 2014
    Is the 50% sample who were prompted UKIP in the overall total?

    If it is, it means the 50% NOT prompted UKIP were:

    C 33
    L 37
    LD 7
    UKIP 14

    Can anyone get that confirmed?

    Implies 10 point UKIP variation.

    ie 14% for non prompted 50% + 24% for prompted 50% gives 19% overall.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,362

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Haven't you ever heard the term "foreign import" used to refer to a human before?
    I haven't. It sounds nasty - almost racist.

    Dirty Racist

    "Manchester United legend Gary Neville thinks Premier League is slowly killing itself with foreign imports "

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/manchester-united-legend-gary-neville-4030557
    Except Gary Neville never used the word import?

    Is merely the headline writer isn't it?
    lol

    so the Mirror are racist ? Like the Guaridan ?
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.


  • If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Good and services and factors of production, Southam. The four commonly agreed factors being land, labour, capital and entrepreneurship.

    Except obviously you can't import land - though actually ... turns out you can. (That's a cracking article by the way.)

    You do occasionally find economists talking about "imported human capital" under the "labour" heading. Perhaps paradoxically it's a dehumanising term, I'll grant you. But nitpicking at the economic terminology employed by Socrates is silly, because in purely economic terms he's right. Sorry. The sentiment, and the factual accuracy of the reasons he purports for the conscious decision-making which produced the current situation (if conscious decision-making there be - I'm sure on many things we got to where we are by historical accident, and migration policy seems to me to be one of them), are contentious and contendable, though.

    Imported human capital I get. But imported immigrants are not the same as that. The capital is the commodity, not the human per se. And I disagree it's nitpicking.

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    The ComRes prompting for UKIP question, produces almost identical numbers to Survation's 10 October poll.

    Survation: Con 31%, Lab 31%, LD 7%, UKIP 25%
    ComRes: Con 29%, Lab 31%, LD 7%, UKIP 24%

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2014
  • Paul_Mid_BedsPaul_Mid_Beds Posts: 1,409
    edited October 2014

    Sean_F said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4

    See, for all the froth and breathlessness on pb that's hardly a massive UKIP breakthrough. It's only going to get tougher for them next year.
    Yes, and with only 28% of current-Con thinking about voting UKIP, they really can't hope for much over 30% on their best day. Doomed.
    Yea, it all goes to show how unpopular UKIP have become.
    Given the Comres polling I expect Cameron to try and rush through a change to a two page ballot paper so that only the Tories, Labour and Libdems appear on the first page of the ballot and all the other parties appear on the second page!
    Rumour has it that the tories have amended the official name of the party so "An United Kingdom Independence CONSERVATIVE Party" will appear on top of the ballot paper, lol.
  • Wish me luck,

    I'm off to see The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

    I expect this film is going to suck, but it least has a member of my future harem, Megan Fox in it.
  • John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    There was a theory going around a while back that above 18% UKIP takes more votes from Labour.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    There was a theory going around a while back that above 18% UKIP takes more votes from Labour.
    I think that was Survation, around the time of the Eastleigh by-election.

  • manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2014

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    There was a theory going around a while back that above 18% UKIP takes more votes from Labour.
    I think that was Survation, around the time of the Eastleigh by-election.

    Maybe at the time of one of the annual sets of council elections?
  • John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    There was a theory going around a while back that above 18% UKIP takes more votes from Labour.
    The trend over the past two years for the three major parties has been Labour down a lot, UKIP up a lot, Tories up a bit.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    The Greens look like they're on for a good year.

    21% of current-Lab, and 26% of current-LD, and 8% of current-Con could be persuaded to vote Green.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    It feels tonight like we are in one of those disastrous periods for UKIP when record polling and election results are the only saving grace... its like the Euros all over again
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    There was a theory going around a while back that above 18% UKIP takes more votes from Labour.
    I think that was Survation, around the time of the Eastleigh by-election.

    Maybe at the time of one of the annual sets of council elections?
    You're right. May 2013

    (towards the bottom of the page)
    http://survation.com/local-elections-2013-seat-projections-too-conservative/

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,585
    isam said:

    It feels tonight like we are in one of those disastrous periods for UKIP when record polling and election results are the only saving grace... its like the Euros all over again

    When they write the history of the 2015 election, tonight will be seen as the key turning point.
  • woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    Interesting morning canvassing in a marginal Labour Council ward today. A fair few UKIP switchers but mainly ex Labour voters.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,727
    UKIP have to know that targetting Labour at the GE is the way forwards - they not only might get some seats but they dramatically improve their chances of having some part in the balance of power and ensuring a referendum.

    Trying to build a base at the expense of the Tories now and going hard at Labour next year is precisely what I would do in their position.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    edited October 2014
    TSE Enjoy, I remember seeing the last Teenage Mutant Turtles film 20 years ago with a friend in 1993. This film has not had great reviews but has been a box office hit
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    woody662 said:

    Interesting morning canvassing in a marginal Labour Council ward today. A fair few UKIP switchers but mainly ex Labour voters.

    By ex-Labour voters, do you mean not intending to vote?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    isam said:

    It feels tonight like we are in one of those disastrous periods for UKIP when record polling and election results are the only saving grace... its like the Euros all over again

    I don't know how UKIP supporters manage to keep hope alive. They must be just be too stupid to know they're finished.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    I see Lord Freud still has his defenders on PB.

    Pity others on PB remember his asinine comments on foodbanks.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/demand-for-food-banks-has-nothing-to-do-with-benefits-squeeze-says-work-minister-lord-freud-8684005.html
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ZenPagan said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Import is exactly the right word to use for immigrants because they are imported for the benefit of business. Much the same as we are no longer employees but human resources.



    Immigrants choose to come themselves. They are risk takers. Giving up whatever little they have for an..........uncertain life which they hope will be much better. In many cases, it is not.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312

    isam said:

    It feels tonight like we are in one of those disastrous periods for UKIP when record polling and election results are the only saving grace... its like the Euros all over again

    I don't know how UKIP supporters manage to keep hope alive. They must be just be too stupid to know they're finished.
    Keep strong, anotherDave, keep strong.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4

    See, for all the froth and breathlessness on pb that's hardly a massive UKIP breakthrough. It's only going to get tougher for them next year.
    Why the assumption things will get tougher for UKIP next year? I think it could well go the other way, that the constant reminders of how unlikeable the main parties are with the blanket media coverage of the election campaign will drive UKIP support up even more.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Ninoinoz said:

    isam said:

    It feels tonight like we are in one of those disastrous periods for UKIP when record polling and election results are the only saving grace... its like the Euros all over again

    I don't know how UKIP supporters manage to keep hope alive. They must be just be too stupid to know they're finished.
    Keep strong, anotherDave, keep strong.
    Thank you. If it wasn't for tea and chocolate, I don't know what I'd do.

  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    surbiton said:

    ZenPagan said:

    isam said:

    EPG said:

    Socrates said:

    Metropolitan liberals aren't even a majority in London. Its just the left have imported a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities that they have conned into believing you have the same beliefs.

    It's the left conning the liberals conning the metropolitans conning Labour conning the immigrants conning the left conning the (repeat ad infinitum; amend as required for left-wing false consciousness rant)

    Import? You import goods and services. Does Socrates regard immigrants as somehow less than human? Of course, the immigrants arriving from EU countries do not get votes, while many immigrant communities in London are long-established.

    Socrates is Lord Freud, and Southam is Angela Eagle!

    If Socrates did not mean to use the word import when he wrote it he can let us know. The fact is that import is a term that usually applies to goods and services.

    Import is exactly the right word to use for immigrants because they are imported for the benefit of business. Much the same as we are no longer employees but human resources.



    Immigrants choose to come themselves. They are risk takers. Giving up whatever little they have for an..........uncertain life which they hope will be much better. In many cases, it is not.
    In which case, they can go back.

    Of course, refugees cannot go back until the disturbance that caused their flight is over. The Huguenots never returned, as Farage is evidence of.

    Incidentally, I've purchased my Christmas cards from the Aid to Church in Need:

    http://www.acnuk.org/products.php/577/the-flight-into-egypt
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited October 2014
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    One of my key CCHQ contacts told me after Newark that canvassers had been quite surprised at the "level of cross-overs" from LAB and LD supporters in the by-election. I'm also aware that in Rochester efforts are being made by the Tories to identify potential LAB & LD tactical voters. I've no idea how successful that's been.

    Anecdote? Maybe but it's just what I do as a political journalist. I trust my sources.
  • isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    It also shows a profound ignorance of the Newark constituency. It is interesting using that one example and wondering how wrong the 'experts' are regarding other constituencies they know nothing about. Partial anecdotal evidence which reinforces ones own prejudices in that way seems a pretty daft basis for projections.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    One of my key CCHQ contacts told me after Newark that canvassers had been quite surprised at the "level of cross-overs" from LAB and LD supporters in the by-election. I'm also aware that in Rochester efforts are being made by the Tories to identify potential LAB & LD tactical voters. I've no idea how successful that's been.

    Anecdote? Maybe but it's just what I do as a political journalist. I trust my sources.
    Well we all have our sources... Farage standing in Thanet was a nice one. Don't say I didn't tell you #dirtydicks

    Think I said that UKIPs S Basildon and E Thurrock candidate would be a surprise too...
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    HYUFD said:

    TSE Enjoy, I remember seeing the last Teenage Mutant Turtles film 20 years ago with a friend in 1993. This film has not had great reviews but has been a box office hit

    Well, I remember a more recent movie version:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453556/?ref_=nv_sr_1
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,699

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    It also shows a profound ignorance of the Newark constituency. It is interesting using that one example and wondering how wrong the 'experts' are regarding other constituencies they know nothing about. Partial anecdotal evidence which reinforces ones own prejudices in that way seems a pretty daft basis for projections.
    The figures do tend to bear it out though unless there was a massive LD-UKIP swing. Likewise, the net Con-Lab swing was only 2% which is far lower than would be expected in a normal by-election with Con defending and Lab in second.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,344
    edited October 2014

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    One of my key CCHQ contacts told me after Newark that canvassers had been quite surprised at the "level of cross-overs" from LAB and LD supporters in the by-election. I'm also aware that in Rochester efforts are being made by the Tories to identify potential LAB & LD tactical voters. I've no idea how successful that's been.

    Anecdote? Maybe but it's just what I do as a political journalist. I trust my sources.
    And yet as someone who was on the ground throughout that election and who also knows the constituency better than anyone else on here having lived there for 40 years - and who in addition had already accurately predicted the result and the reasons for it long before the election was even called - I can assure you that your acquaintances of acquaintances were wrong. Something that is also backed up by the final numbers.

    Edit - of course having no local knowledge at all in Rochester I have absolutely no idea what that means for that by-election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    I do actually think there was some tactical anti-UKIP voting in Newark (Or perhaps anti-Helmer), primarily from labour voters - but it was a particular situation and probably won't be replicated at the GE.
    It was just a classic 3rd party squeeze tbh - I'm still heavy UKIP in my portfolio as it is something when you are the party people are for or against - that's a good thing, how many tactical anti-Lib Dem votes are there around ?

    Precisely :O)
  • isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    It also shows a profound ignorance of the Newark constituency. It is interesting using that one example and wondering how wrong the 'experts' are regarding other constituencies they know nothing about. Partial anecdotal evidence which reinforces ones own prejudices in that way seems a pretty daft basis for projections.
    The figures do tend to bear it out though unless there was a massive LD-UKIP swing. Likewise, the net Con-Lab swing was only 2% which is far lower than would be expected in a normal by-election with Con defending and Lab in second.
    Nope because the local Labour party was and is still in disarray after more than a decade of infighting with some of the most high profile former Labour councillors still sitting as independents and refusing to help the party. Like I say, local knowledge.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:
    It is depressing that so many Universities are so against free speech.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Danny565 said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4

    See, for all the froth and breathlessness on pb that's hardly a massive UKIP breakthrough. It's only going to get tougher for them next year.
    Why the assumption things will get tougher for UKIP next year? I think it could well go the other way, that the constant reminders of how unlikeable the main parties are with the blanket media coverage of the election campaign will drive UKIP support up even more.
    That was the same line they said after last years council elections, and the Euros this year

    Short sellers of UKIP on here have sold at about every level below the current one!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HYUFD said:
    You'd think universities would stand up for free speech. They've only got to confront teenagers after all.

    Poor effort.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Fox Indeed, it means he can just play the victim and portray himself as even more of an anti establishment outsider
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Ninoinoz Do not recall that one, so thanks for pointing it out, I believe that was animated, this is live action like the earlier films
  • oldnatoldnat Posts: 136

    HYUFD said:
    It is depressing that so many Universities are so against free speech.
    Doesn't it just mean that they are anti-English?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,699

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    Can we conclude that? If the poll is made up of half prompted and half unprompted then each half will have its own margin of error and it'd be risky to judge the results on the basis of the odd point's gain or loss. It might also explain why the Greens appeared to improve from 4 to 5 when UKIP (but not the Greens themselves) were prompted for i.e. they didn't actually improve, they just performed slightly better with a different group of respondents.
  • woody662woody662 Posts: 255

    woody662 said:

    Interesting morning canvassing in a marginal Labour Council ward today. A fair few UKIP switchers but mainly ex Labour voters.

    By ex-Labour voters, do you mean not intending to vote?
    Labour 2010 voters
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2014

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    It also shows a profound ignorance of the Newark constituency. It is interesting using that one example and wondering how wrong the 'experts' are regarding other constituencies they know nothing about. Partial anecdotal evidence which reinforces ones own prejudices in that way seems a pretty daft basis for projections.
    The figures do tend to bear it out though unless there was a massive LD-UKIP swing. Likewise, the net Con-Lab swing was only 2% which is far lower than would be expected in a normal by-election with Con defending and Lab in second.
    Nope because the local Labour party was and is still in disarray after more than a decade of infighting with some of the most high profile former Labour councillors still sitting as independents and refusing to help the party. Like I say, local knowledge.
    What is definitely happening though, is a strong anti UKIP sentiment amongst political activists from other parties

    Obviously we have Hope Not Hate and Stand Up To Ukip to contend with.. last week in Clacton MacDonalds, people form these organisations were making loud anti muslim comments while wearing UKIP badges, and on Thursday in Thurrock Labour canvassers were caught telling people that UKIP wanted to bring in Gas Chambers!!

    A Labour MEP has also been tweeting that UKIP want to abort disabled foetuses, and barely a day goes past without the "Charge to see GP" or "Flat Tax" lies being regurgitated

    They should read PB! They'd be reassured UKIP are on the downward drift!
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014
    comparing the "would seriously consider voting for" number with ComRes latest favourable/unfavourable numbers. They seem to be measuring the same thing.

    Conservative Party
    Lab favourable: 6%
    Lab would vote: 5%

    LD favourable: 20%
    LD would vote: 19%

    UKIP favourable: 8%
    UKIP would vote: 16%

    --------
    UKIP
    Con favourable: 28%
    Con would vote: 28%

    Lab favourable: 12%
    Lab would vote: 16%

    LD favourable: 10%
    LD would vote: 9%

    ------------
    Labour Party
    Con favourable: 2%
    Con would vote: 8%

    LD favourable: 20%
    LD would vote: 25%

    UKIP favourable: 9%
    UKIP would vote: 10%

    http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/IoS_SM_Political_Poll_28th_September_2014_8723.pdf
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,240

    HYUFD said:
    It is depressing that so many Universities are so against free speech.
    Universities have long been bastions of conformity, and hostile to free speech.

    Back in the day, Bristol banned people like Michael Stern, Keith Joseph, and William Waldegrave because they were "racists and fascists."

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited October 2014
    Also rumours of residents of Rochester being phoned saying Reckless is a drunk!
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited October 2014

    HYUFD said:
    It is depressing that so many Universities are so against free speech.
    Depressingly it's the same here for the most part.

    No red ferries either :-)
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    Interesting morning canvassing in a marginal Labour Council ward today. A fair few UKIP switchers but mainly ex Labour voters.

    By ex-Labour voters, do you mean not intending to vote?
    Labour 2010 voters
    And do they intend to vote labour in 2015, or are they saying they won't vote?
  • oldnatoldnat Posts: 136
    isam

    What is definitely happening though, is a strong anti UKIP sentiment amongst political activists from other parties That's a sentiment really worth highlighting.

    Obviously, when fitalass and I both excoriate SLab as being useless, self-interested, and with zero potential competence as a governing party, that's because we are in collusion.

    The alternative (given that we also excoriate each other's party), is that political activists from every party exhibit sentiments against the other parties.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited October 2014

    Chart: Comres 2010-2014

    Although the initial UKIP rise was at the expense of the Conservatives, since 2013 Cons have flat-lined and it's Labour and LibDem that have lost out to UKIP.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    One of my key CCHQ contacts told me after Newark that canvassers had been quite surprised at the "level of cross-overs" from LAB and LD supporters in the by-election. I'm also aware that in Rochester efforts are being made by the Tories to identify potential LAB & LD tactical voters. I've no idea how successful that's been.

    Anecdote? Maybe but it's just what I do as a political journalist. I trust my sources.
    Well we all have our sources... Farage standing in Thanet was a nice one. Don't say I didn't tell you #dirtydicks

    Think I said that UKIPs S Basildon and E Thurrock candidate would be a surprise too...
    Oh ! It will be YOU !!
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    Can we conclude that? If the poll is made up of half prompted and half unprompted then each half will have its own margin of error and it'd be risky to judge the results on the basis of the odd point's gain or loss. It might also explain why the Greens appeared to improve from 4 to 5 when UKIP (but not the Greens themselves) were prompted for i.e. they didn't actually improve, they just performed slightly better with a different group of respondents.
    We can't conclude that, certainly, but it does potentially imply it. It'd need corroboration from more polls, preferably from other pollsters.

    At the least, it strongly implies that the preferential drift from Cons no longer is anywhere near as strong a factor at higher levels of UKIP support
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited October 2014


    Chart: Comres 2010-2014

    Although the initial UKIP rise was at the expense of the Conservatives, since 2013 Cons have flat-lined and it's Labour and LibDem that have lost out to UKIP.

    Thanks for that.

    It's funny, looking at the graph UKIP seems to experience bigger month to month swings than the other parties.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    oldnat said:

    isam

    What is definitely happening though, is a strong anti UKIP sentiment amongst political activists from other parties That's a sentiment really worth highlighting.

    Obviously, when fitalass and I both excoriate SLab as being useless, self-interested, and with zero potential competence as a governing party, that's because we are in collusion.

    The alternative (given that we also excoriate each other's party), is that political activists from every party exhibit sentiments against the other parties.

    Yes of course, but they don't often wear rosettes of other parties so they are overheard sounding racist, and they don't accuse other parties of wanting to introduce gas chambers
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    @TSE
    Those silly Labour supporters have given the wrong answer! They're saying they'd rather vote UKIP than Conservative. Oafs!
    28% of Conservatives would consider voting UKIP; 8% would consider voting Labour. 16% of Labour supporters would consider voting UKIP; 5% would consider voting Conservative.

    I don't think UKIP will be suffering from tactical voting.
    Election night 2015 is going to be a corker.

    If PB.com add a swear box Mr Smithson will be able to buy a chocolate Nigella Lawson.
    But someone on here heard off someone else that in Newark there were tactical votes against UKIP, and we know that the primary purpose of this site is to analyse anecdotes from friends of friends

    So what if the polls say different?
    I love that Newark anti-UKIP meme. You can smell the desperation. :-)
    It also shows a profound ignorance of the Newark constituency.
    The figures do tend to bear it out though unless there was a massive LD-UKIP swing. Likewise, the net Con-Lab swing was only 2% which is far lower than would be expected in a normal by-election with Con defending and Lab in second.
    Nope because the local
    What is definitely happening though, is a strong anti UKIP sentiment amongst political activists from other parties

    Obviously we have Hope Not Hate and Stand Up To Ukip to contend with.. last week in Clacton MacDonalds, people form these organisations were making loud anti muslim comments while wearing UKIP badges, and on Thursday in Thurrock Labour canvassers were caught telling people that UKIP wanted to bring in Gas Chambers!!

    A Labour MEP has also been tweeting that UKIP want to abort disabled foetuses, and barely a day goes past without the "Charge to see GP" or "Flat Tax" lies being regurgitated

    They should read PB! They'd be reassured UKIP are on the downward drift!
    Except that flat tax was in the UKIP manifesto, and leading kippers such as Nuttal and Carswell have proposed breaking up the NHS.

    I am a bit sceptical of the supposed false flag kippers in Clacton McDonalds making anti Muslim comments, not least because in many parts of the country anti-Muslim comments would drive up the vote.

    UKIP remain a wolf in sheeps clothing, with the major figures all being from the anti-welfare state right wing of the Conservative party.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4 Half sample prompted w UKIP in Q: Lab 31 Con 29 UKIP 24

    Interesting.
    The drift was more from Lab to UKIP than Con to UKIP when prompted.
    it could imply that while the first source for UKIP was primarily from former Cons, the next could actually be from Lab.
    Can we conclude that? If the poll is made up of half prompted and half unprompted then each half will have its own margin of error and it'd be risky to judge the results on the basis of the odd point's gain or loss. It might also explain why the Greens appeared to improve from 4 to 5 when UKIP (but not the Greens themselves) were prompted for i.e. they didn't actually improve, they just performed slightly better with a different group of respondents.
    The split samples in the ComRes poll were smaller than you'd expect in an online poll. 782 in the main one. So I wouldn't read too much into it apart from the fact that the prompt does give a boost to UKIP.

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,699
    isam said:

    John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul

    ComRes for @IndyOnSunday & @thesundaymirror Lab 34 -1 Con 31 +2 UKIP 19 LD 7 Green 4

    See, for all the froth and breathlessness on pb that's hardly a massive UKIP breakthrough. It's only going to get tougher for them next year.
    Yep, these record highs are a real disappointment
    Just for the record, 19% is an excellent score for UKIP with ComRes but it's not a record. They polled 20% on 10/4/14.

    The 24% would be a record although as the methodology's different, it's not strictly comparable and in any case, isn't a published headline result so doesn't count in the same way. It'll be interesting to see if they adopt a 'four party named' approach from now on. They ought to given the support for UKIP in the country and the likely number of candidates to be fielded next year.
This discussion has been closed.