Cameron's Tories think disabled workers are worth less than the minimum wage.
The rest is froth.
The jobs "market" is subject to the laws of the land. Disabled workers are worth the legal minimum wage, no ifs no buts. That your Party thinks otherwise is frankly disgusting.
It's an absolute parallel of how 'racist' was used until recently to prevent any criticism of imported cultural practices that many find unacceptable, and we know where that led.
I'm all for a reasoned debate, so let's go.
I think the legal minimum wage should apply to disabled workers, just like any other workers.
You and the Tory Party clearly don't.
Why not? Why do you and Cameron's Tories think disabled workers should be exempt from the legal minimum wage? Or subject to a lower one? Or what?
And if your Party doesn't think that, why is Freud still in a job?
You're not debating, you're repeating, which is not the same thing.
I do believe the minimum wage should be received by all employees; I just don't believe that employers should have to pay the full amount for people with employability-affecting disabilities, the state should make up the difference.
It's really not all that difficult.
Freud is still in a job because his basic point is right, even if he was foolish to use the word 'worth', which has implications well beyond financial earning capacity.
And you're holding a shaky party line, not debating.
The law sets out what a worker is "worth". This isn't semantics, it's key.
Your Party clearly believe this no longer holds for disabled people and should be "looked at". Presumably along with the minimum wage itself. And that's why Freud is still in a job. Cameron's Tories genuinely believe this stuff.
I really can't be bothered with you. Neither will the country be with the story.
No probs.
Perhaps instead use your time to pen another masterpiece favourably comparing a key architect of South African apartheid to Nelson Mandela.
Well well......you have been lurking a long time, haven't you?
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
Watch out for weasels where it sounds like it's about current migration, but closely parsed it turns out only to apply to new accession members, which: 1) Can already have transitional arrangements applied limiting free movement for their citizens 2) Can't join without all member states agreeing 3) For the term of office in question, don't actually exist
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
Switzerland had that referendum on free movement with the EU, and the EU is sort of playing hardball with them. It's good to see the outcome of that fight.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
No. The Conservative Party will always imply more than it promises.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
From The Times
Mats Persson, director of the Open Europe think-tank, said. “There’s support in Europe for changing the rules on access to benefits, which can be done without changing the EU treaties and which will go a long way to address people’s concerns.
“An emergency brake on numbers will be very hard and risky but may just be possible to achieve if that’s the only thing Cameron goes for, given that there are precedents for other areas in the EU treaties. A points-based system would be an extremely difficult task, involving fundamentally rewriting the EU treaties. Cameron should also point out that EU free movement does come with benefits.”
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Maybe you're right - what do I know about European politics? Very little - but in any case the chances of him getting something, deeming it acceptable, and that judgement being accepted by the Tories leaving for UKIP cameron needs to win back, is definitely nil.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
No. The Conservative Party will always imply more than it promises.
That's why I agree with @edmundintokyo post below on this.
The most telling thing about Labour's outrage over Freud's comments is that their spontaneous outrage took two weeks to get critical mass. Two weeks to whip up enough righteous indignation after one guy (who was once one of their own) makes some clumsy unformed, thinking-aloud comments around how best to ensure that a very few are able to make an effective contribution to society.
Coincidentally, this critical mass of outrage topped the Blue Party target line on the same day that Labour is confronted with unemployment dropping below two million. That is a full THREE MILLION people who are now employed that their tame guru said would be unemployed, unable to make an effective contribution to society.
You can see the nature of these people. I personally think Freud has demonstrated the better morals today. At least he's apologised that he might have unintentionally caused offence.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
Probably "recommend" rather than "direct" what with us being a democracy & all.
But if he lays down a red line & then tries to back track he'll have as much credibility as Obama. And will get everything he deserves.
(FWIW, intelligent limits on EU immigration are probably sensible and wouldn't be incompatible with the free movement of labour concept. The objective was to avoid the need for work permits (or at least to make them a formality) not to allow anyone who wants to to move to the UK)
A Word To The Wise Cameron does not have any credibility when it comes to the EU and immigration already so breaking a red line will matter not.
FWIW Controlled immigration is essential for competent government because how can you plan your public services and societal improvements if your population is growing in an uncontrolled manner (the lost an immigrant population half the size of Birmingham). That such a basic tenet of good government has been ignored for close on a generation demonstrates how derelict the establishment parties are!
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Direction of travel possibly, actual government support definitely not, and in any case even in the wild hypothetical case where Germany agreed to this every member state in Eastern Europe has a veto.
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
Watch out for weasels where it sounds like it's about current migration, but closely parsed it turns out only to apply to new accession members, which: 1) Can already have transitional arrangements applied limiting free movement for their citizens 2) Can't join without all member states agreeing 3) For the term of office in question, don't actually exist
Oh quite I do expect it to be some sort of mealy mouthed deception that equates to very little but if the Sun wants to deceive people there is no harm talking it up and raising expectations. There will be plenty of time to tear apart the detail in due course (just like Cameron's Tens Of Thousands Commitment) ......
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Direction of travel possibly, actual government support definitely not, and in any case even in the wild hypothetical case where Germany agreed to this every member state in Eastern Europe has a veto.
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
The EU parliament will vote as it is told. If not its current members wont be re-selected for the next election by party leaders.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Direction of travel possibly, actual government support definitely not, and in any case even in the wild hypothetical case where Germany agreed to this every member state in Eastern Europe has a veto.
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
Cameron going nuclear ? could Cameron be changing tory policy of Britain to leave the EU.
FWIW Controlled immigration is essential for competent government because how can you plan your public services and societal improvements if your population is growing in an uncontrolled manner (the lost an immigrant population half the size of Birmingham). That such a basic tenet of good government has been ignored for close on a generation demonstrates how derelict the establishment parties are!
Most services are locally delivered, so if you wanted to use migration controls to relieve the government of the intolerable burden of forecasting likely demographic trends instead of dictating them according to a grand central plan you'd have to control British people migrating between different towns as well.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
If immigration limits are a red line and the EU says 'Non' (as I suspect under QMV they will) does that mean Cameron will come back from Brussels without an agreement and direct the British people to vote to withdraw from the EU in the referendum?
No. The Conservative Party will always imply more than it promises.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Direction of travel possibly, actual government support definitely not, and in any case even in the wild hypothetical case where Germany agreed to this every member state in Eastern Europe has a veto.
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
The EU parliament will vote as it is told. If not its current members wont be re-selected for the next election by party leaders.
I'm guessing you don't pay much attention to European politics, am I close?
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
The UKIP vote just goes up whatever the Conservatives and Labour do. There's not much they can do about it.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Hey, Hugh the keyboard warrior, I took up your invitation to discuss the Freud affair at 10.58. You got anything original to say?
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Better than no balls milliband.
"£2/hr for the disabled" Cameron didn't even understand the NHS bill that started the retoxification of his Party on the issue.
You can't ask him to come up with some leadership on UKIP that might stop the Right splitting.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Better than no balls milliband.
"£2/hr for the disabled" Cameron didn't even understand the NHS bill that started the retoxification of his Party on the issue.
You can't ask him to come up with some leadership on UKIP that might stop the Right splitting.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Hey, Hugh the keyboard warrior, I took up your invitation to discuss the Freud affair at 10.58. You got anything original to say?
Yeah sure. Disabled people are worth the legal minimum wage, like any worker. Unlike Cameron's Tories, let's agree with that much and start from there.
To start, IDS's "reforms" should be scrapped. They have hammered disabled people.
MikeK So Labour is now on about the total Michael Howard got in 2005 with yougov tonight, a fall from their Kinnock '92 total yesterday and the Tories about on what Hague got in 2001 while UKIP are about on what Charlie Kennedy got in 2001 (the LDs themselves are on the lowest Liberal total since 1959)
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
@tnewtondunn: ...and PM to announce soon he is prepared to see Britain's EU exit if immigration control demand not met; http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
The EU surely cannot give in to such a demand, and in any case would be disinclined to be seen to submit to something that is patently a single national politician's making a ploy focused on his electorate in order to stay in office. So I am forced to presume it's a hail mary from Cameron he has no belief can be followed up on, because he knows he has so little chance of being re-elected that it is finally time to bring out the shadier tactics which I think, for all the accusations, politicians rarely employ because it is not worth the risk.
I thought the mood in Germany was going towards support for this.
Direction of travel possibly, actual government support definitely not, and in any case even in the wild hypothetical case where Germany agreed to this every member state in Eastern Europe has a veto.
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
The EU parliament will vote as it is told. If not its current members wont be re-selected for the next election by party leaders.
I'm guessing you don't pay much attention to European politics, am I close?
Nope you are not, you are further away that Pluto.
FWIW Controlled immigration is essential for competent government because how can you plan your public services and societal improvements if your population is growing in an uncontrolled manner (the lost an immigrant population half the size of Birmingham). That such a basic tenet of good government has been ignored for close on a generation demonstrates how derelict the establishment parties are!
Most services are locally delivered, so if you wanted to use migration controls to relieve the government of the intolerable burden of forecasting likely demographic trends instead of dictating them according to a grand central plan you'd have to control British people migrating between different towns as well.
Well at some point if the economy is to be rebalanced and the nations unhealthy polarisation around a few increasingly unsustainable urban centres is to be halted and perhaps reversed personally (and purely personally) I do think it might be necessary for government to exert a level of influence on internal migration patterns. However its not something I've considered in depth.
In the meantime controlling net immigration would be a good start so that we can stabilise the situation.
PS It wouldn't be the first time. A large part of the civil service was redistributed across the country in an attempt to get something like that going back in the 70's & 80's IIRC.
MikeK So Labour is now on about the total Michael Howard got in 2005 with yougov tonight, a fall from their Kinnock '92 total yesterday and the Tories about on what Hague got in 2001 while UKIP are about on what Charlie Kennedy got in 2001 (the LDs themselves are on the lowest Liberal total since 1959)
It does sound normal, apart from UKIP switching with the LD's. The period of two party politics lasted only 3 years and we are back to three ( or two and a half) party politics like most of the 1974-2010 period.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Better than no balls milliband.
"£2/hr for the disabled" Cameron didn't even understand the NHS bill that started the retoxification of his Party on the issue.
You can't ask him to come up with some leadership on UKIP that might stop the Right splitting.
Pal,can you please stop doing your labour orders on the disabled,the party politics on this subject just annoys me and I have a feeling,you couldn't really give a sh!t about the subject.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
The UKIP vote just goes up whatever the Conservatives and Labour do. There's not much they can do about it.
The best thing in today's Ipsos was the reduction in the number of people who think UKIP is a wasted vote. They can see UKIP winning now.
@tnewtondunn: BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal http://t.co/DihxDRf0b2
Translation: "UKIP are at another record high, we must appear that we are doing something"
And tim was right. The tories never learn. You cannot out kipper the kippers.
Its like wrestling a pig. You get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
Is this another lesson from the 'be wicked, act shamelessly, stir endlessly' LD campaign book?
Nope. Just that tim waw right on this. The more the tories talk up the issue of europe the more the kipper vote goes up.
Farage is playing dumb Dave like a violin.
Hey, Hugh the keyboard warrior, I took up your invitation to discuss the Freud affair at 10.58. You got anything original to say?
Yeah sure. Disabled people are worth the legal minimum wage, like any worker. Unlike Cameron's Tories, let's agree with that much and start from there.
To start, IDS's "reforms" should be scrapped. They have hammered disabled people.
You really don't get it, do you.
It isn't about the finance, money or minimum wage. It is about the well being of the disabled.
Many of them don't even have the ability to understand the value of money in the way you do. Or the capacity to do a productive day or half days work is unlikely.
However, the inclusion with other people, the feeling of belonging, the pride of achieving any little goal is priceless.
Your attitude takes that away. If I employ them for a day to do two hours work I have to pay 7.5 hours pay. How many will experience the joy of employment? (and it is a joy for many)
Think beyond the money, that is an irrelevant distraction and look at the well being of the people employment helps. Then you will learn and understand, or go to some charities putting disabled into employment and experience it first hand.
BREAKING: Cameron to demand limits on European immigration as his 'red line' price to stay in the EU, Sun can reveal
Should brighten the mood on here
Well to the extent that it shows just how much UKIP can squeeze the government with just one MP. That said all he is doing is demanding limits on Immigration. If Brussels say no unless he is willing to withdraw its meaningless.......
He's probably just hoping the lie will be believed long enough to get through the Rochester by-election.
No i think he intends to play this one through to the election because if it collapses before the election he has nothing to fend immigration criticism off with. That said i don't see how it will last that long......
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
"Mr Rees-Mogg decided to have lunch with Mr Wheeler in the Strangers’ Dining Room in full view of fellow MPs, rather than surreptitiously, was to quell speculation that the MP for North East Somerset was about to defect to the enemy camp."
Classy :-)
"The duo – along with former Conservative MP-turned Ukip activist Christopher Gill – discussed the feasibility of a legal challenge to block the government’s plans to readopt the European arrest warrant later this year."
Very encouraging. I thought this had already gone through.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
Are the proposals specifically about benefits then?
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
Actually uncontrolled Immigration whilst it is ridiculous is not the primary driver why I want to withdraw from the EU by any means.. It is a non-sensical unsustainable centralised model built on a deranged vision out of the narcissistic vanity of the European political classes that is surplus to the political requirements of 21st Century Europe. No rational politician would allow it to continue but rationality is as rare as integrity in the upper echelons of the Brussels elite.
Solving our immigration problems would not stop my total opposition to the EU.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
Are the proposals specifically about benefits then?
Oh that was the Times article ScottP linked to.. I don't know about the Sun red line thing
Makes me dislike Cameron a bit really. Doesn't he have any genuine convictions?
Apartheid SA visit/Mandela gushing Section 28/Gay Marriage Huskies/Green Crap
...and now this
He quite obviously is a Europhile, its embarrassing to see him desperately trying to spin the line that he might really want to leave, when everyone knows he is only doing it to win votes
Whatever you think of Farage, he has devoted 20 years to leaving the EU because he hates the EU
"Mr Rees-Mogg decided to have lunch with Mr Wheeler in the Strangers’ Dining Room in full view of fellow MPs, rather than surreptitiously, was to quell speculation that the MP for North East Somerset was about to defect to the enemy camp."
Classy :-)
"The duo – along with former Conservative MP-turned Ukip activist Christopher Gill – discussed the feasibility of a legal challenge to block the government’s plans to readopt the European arrest warrant later this year."
Very encouraging. I thought this had already gone through.
Hopefully Lord Ashcroft will have included N.E. Somerset in his constituency polls tomorrow, but with a majority of less than 5000, it doesn't look promising for him.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
Are the proposals specifically about benefits then?
Oh that was the Times article ScottP linked to.. I don't know about the Sun red line thing
Makes me dislike Cameron a bit really. Doesn't he have any genuine convictions?
Apartheid SA visit/Mandela gushing Section 28/Gay Marriage Huskies/Green Crap
...and now this
He quite obviously is a Europhile, its embarrassing to see him desperately trying to spin the line that he might really want to leave, when everyone knows he is only doing it to win votes
Whatever you think of Farage, he has devoted 20 years to leaving the EU because he hates the EU
Yeah, I don't think the times article is actually what the proposals are, it is just some guys views on what they might be.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
What about poor unskilled with large families immigration from the EU,that not good on schools,health centres,housing,roads and social services,which have been cut.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
What about poor unskilled with large families immigration from the EU,that not good on schools,health centres,housing,roads and social services,which have been cut.
Obviously I am bang against that, but I just don't think that many are on the ponce! They are trying to make a better life for themselves, and most work hard for that... but I think the Governments most important job is to create a better life for British people, not provide the mechanism for them to be undercut then wash their hands of it
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
If you don't mind me asking, as a long-standing Labour man in a previous incarnation - what was it that finally shifted you firmly into the Kipper camp?
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
I'm glad the Mail have so enthusiastically joined the green movement. They should be credited for such efficient recycling of old news.
Of course a referendum under Miliband (whose brother signed the Lisbon Treaty) would be easier to win because there would be no negotiation at all and the Tories would likely be forced to oppose Miliband and therefore demand withdrawal because it would effectively be on the Lisbon Treaty which they have historically opposed.
The Tories opposing the government proposal instead of sponsoring it would clearly put the out camp in a stronger position.
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
I suspect those claimed to be on minimum wage and those who are paid minimum wage probably differs greatly
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
I don't know, but I never mentioned the minimum wage
Putting aside the crassly put words of the minister, there is a genuine issue here. In an inclusive society, we need to be encouraging all folks to be involved in all aspects of daily life, and that includes work.
For those with some physical disabilities, such as being a wheelchair users, although certainly still hard, I think it isn't as unexpected that they are able to gain employment and should be looking to do so. Being a wheelchair user shouldn't be a barrier and isn't as much as it used to be. Places like shops and offices are far more accessible than they used to be, although more needs to be done, attitudes have certainly changed a lot.
However, for those with an intellectual disability, there is a genuine problem here. Many employers wont employ people in this position, especially when they have to pay minimum wage and there is plenty of people looking for work who would take the job for the same money. Furthermore, there is still very much the benefits trap, many people are told (not advised...still terrible attitudes here from professionals) they will lose income if they go to work part time. In fact worse, many are told flat out by "professionals" they aren't capable of working in a normal working environment.
The real debate is how can we make work accessible to all, and not penalise the individual / encourage business to hire. We do need a grown up debate.
I don't have a simple answer, but we do need to look to some sort of system whereby we can break the current cycle whereby 10,000's of people, who have a learning difficulty are simply put onto benefits for the rest of their lives.
Remploy factories was / is not a solution either. Again too many do gooders think that these kind of schemes are the way forward. To put it bluntly, it is just putting a big badge saying "special" people over there, they can ONLY do these kind of tasks, regardless of if people wanted to work there, what they are capable of doing etc.
Any chance that Farage will finally make up his mind on whether or not he wants an EU referendum?
'Ukip leader Nigel Farage suggested over the weekend that if his party gains enough MPs to hold the balance of power in next May’s general election, it would demand a vote on EU membership by the end of July – before any renegotiation of powers could take place.'
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
I don't know, but I never mentioned the minimum wage
Hm, the wage difference is all well and good, but it doesn't take into account the different cost of living, which will make up the majority of the difference, I suspect.
Any chance that Farage will finally make up his mind on whether or not he wants an EU referendum?
'Ukip leader Nigel Farage suggested over the weekend that if his party gains enough MPs to hold the balance of power in next May’s general election, it would demand a vote on EU membership by the end of July – before any renegotiation of powers could take place.'
If you don't mind me asking, as a long-standing Labour man in a previous incarnation - what was it that finally shifted you firmly into the Kipper camp?
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Oh I went to Uni to study Humanities, as you do, and it obviously informed me a lot more about politics... that got the ball rolling, really and I actually found myself making arguments that were totally against everything that Labour stood for. So it wasn't anything to do with an event in domestic politics, more a change in my thinking
The whole place was full of Marxists and SWP members, so that didn't help! I couldn't be associated with such wallies!
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
There seems to be an OECD report
"For the UK specifically, the OECD found that – even excluding the future cost of pensions - immigrant households on average paid less in tax and received more in benefits than UK-born households."
"The Migration Advisory Committee[17], after reviewing previous studies, reported in January 2012 (para 4.39) that migrants had little or no impact on average wages. However, migrants were found to increase wages at the top of the UK wage distribution and to lower wages at the bottom. It is worth noting that these studies largely looked at periods before the recession and before the upsurge in immigration from 2004 onwards."
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 · 8h8 hours ago #LibDems' GB by-election %-ages since GE 2010 - 10 lost deposits from 18. Only 3 polls higher than 20% #Clacton
I fell like David Cameron is invading my space and trying to sell me second hand UKIP policies
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
The minimum wage applies equally to all workers, so how can immigrant workers "undercut" anybody?
Because they are undercutting people who earn more than the minimum wage
Are there any reliable stats on the proportions of immigrant workers on minimum wage?
I don't know, but I never mentioned the minimum wage
Hm, the wage difference is all well and good, but it doesn't take into account the different cost of living, which will make up the majority of the difference, I suspect.
Well yes, but the fact is that economic migrants are prepared to rough it in overcrowded living space, work all the hours under the sun for a few years in order to squirrel away enough to take home and live comfortably
That means that the British people that have to adapt and compete have to work longer hours for worse pay, etc etc they have to downgrade their plans.. and all because the government deliberately flooded their market with cheaper competition
Farage said he didn't want an EU referendum in 2017, but one sometime in the distant future if and when the Tories win an election and if & when they have an anti EU leader. Now he wants one in July next year.
Surely time for him to $hit or get off the pot.
For the record I want an EU referendum and will vote to leave but have no confidence in Farage's antics,he seems too wedded to the Brussels gravy train to be taken seriously.
Farage said he didn't want an EU referendum in 2017, but one sometime in the distant future if and when the Tories win an election and if & when they have an anti EU leader. Now he wants one in July next year.
Surely time for him to $hit or get off the pot.
For the record I want an EU referendum and will vote to leave but have no confidence in Farage's antics,he seems too wedded to the Brussels gravy train to be taken seriously.
No IIRC Farage has been calling for an immediate referendum for some considerable time. Unlike others Farage does not use it as a device to extort people's votes out of them. What he wants though is a fair and honest referendum not one that has been rigged to deliver a pre-defined result.
Sadly 'the pot' is so full of establishment $hit that it is out of service.
PS If Farage was so wedded to the Brussels gravy train why is it he has chosen to fight the most likely UKIP win in the General Election. When he wins Thanet South he will cease to be an MEP and become an MP. Why would someone who is so wedded to Brussels give it up so readily?
If they were to breach these spending limits, they would not only be subject to potential fines, but the entire result of the by-election would be called into question, and their candidate may even be disqualified.
The stuff about a fair and honest referendum is just an excuse to keep kicking it into the long grass.
Farage always fights a seat at the UK GE safe in the knowledge that he's always got the Brussels gravy train to fall back on.
If he's calling for a referendum in July 2015. TWO YEARS before anyone else how the hell is that kicking it into the long grass? Now you are just being utterly ridiculous......
PS And Farage is answerable to the electorate like everybody else in the EU Parliament. None of them have got the Brussels Gravy Train to fall back on if they haven't got the voters mandate and as he was top of the largest vote in the Euros he has the largest mandate to be there!
If they were to breach these spending limits, they would not only be subject to potential fines, but the entire result of the by-election would be called into question, and their candidate may even be disqualified.
Now that would be priceless!
Presumably that would mean a new by-election? Maybe worth their while rolling the dice - if they beat UKIP once they'd probably beat them the second time, which gives them two hits for the price of one. The primary generally gives them quite a positive story to tell, so it's not such a bad technicality to be disqualified on.
'If he's calling for a referendum in July 2015. TWO YEARS before anyone else how the hell is that kicking it into the long grass? '
Because we know he'll come up with yet another excuse to change the date & kick it into the long grass ,he's already done it three times.
You seriously believe Farage is interested in a referendum.
OK Mystic Meg. If you say so.
Farage has spent the last 20 years fighting for withdrawal from the EU and as much as a referendum will deliver that withdrawal of course he's interested in holding one that will achieve that aim.
Farage hasn't kicked anything into any long grass. He has not had the power to do anything beforehand. It has been the three establishment parties who have set the narrative. Only now have UKIP had any sort of slim chance of having any influence in such matters and then only if they win enough seats to become kingmaker. Even so he has called for a referendum two months after the moment when that slim chance is due to come to fruition.
He is not David Cameron who said he wanted a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and then when that became obsolete but he was in a position to do something then said he didn't want one and then avoided using his own referendum lock legislation to hold one whilst handing over power to Brussels only then to decide to use a referendum (not immediately but 3 years hence from the date he announced it) as a means to extort Eurosceptic voters into voting for his Europhile party in 2015 when he has no intention of taking us out of the EU.
You seem to be confusing Farage with the likes of the establishment parties who have prevaricated over a referendum for the last 25 years or more.
Peterson was a great pianist, but he strikes me as a pastiche of several styles, who never really found his own distinctive voice...
The two pianists to listen to are:-
Art Tatum (aka God) [Peterson gave up for a while after hearing him. Others gave up altogether...]
Bill Evans (deeply introspective, his music described as "love letters written from some prison of the heart..."); [influenced all modern pianists, Keith Jarrett, Elaine Elias, Diana Krall, Brad Mehldau, etc.]
If they were to breach these spending limits, they would not only be subject to potential fines, but the entire result of the by-election would be called into question, and their candidate may even be disqualified.
Now that would be priceless!
Presumably that would mean a new by-election? Maybe worth their while rolling the dice - if they beat UKIP once they'd probably beat them the second time, which gives them two hits for the price of one. The primary generally gives them quite a positive story to tell, so it's not such a bad technicality to be disqualified on.
According to the document below a challenge would have to be made in court and the court would have the power to either declare the election void or declare an alternative victor. (point 17 & list of petitions pg 66).
I imagine there would be a strong case to say that a rerun would be unfair because of the financial implication of running a second campaign and the fact that the party at fault had suffered no punishment but who knows what the courts might decide?
Comments
It's good to see the outcome of that fight.
Coincidentally, this critical mass of outrage topped the Blue Party target line on the same day that Labour is confronted with unemployment dropping below two million. That is a full THREE MILLION people who are now employed that their tame guru said would be unemployed, unable to make an effective contribution to society.
You can see the nature of these people. I personally think Freud has demonstrated the better morals today. At least he's apologised that he might have unintentionally caused offence.
FWIW Controlled immigration is essential for competent government because how can you plan your public services and societal improvements if your population is growing in an uncontrolled manner (the lost an immigrant population half the size of Birmingham). That such a basic tenet of good government has been ignored for close on a generation demonstrates how derelict the establishment parties are!
And even if all the member states mysteriously agreed it would also have to pass the European Parliament. If you give them a vote on "End one of the four freedoms or Britain leaves", they're going to vote for "Britain leaves".
If not its current members wont be re-selected for the next election by party leaders.
(Then I wake up) ;-)
The UKIP vote just goes up whatever the Conservatives and Labour do. There's not much they can do about it.
You can't ask him to come up with some leadership on UKIP that might stop the Right splitting.
Jim Pickard @PickardJE 58m58 minutes ago
Jacob Rees-Mogg's lunch with Ukip treasurer Stuart Wheeler in the Commons today http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d7fa2724-5489-11e4-b2ea-00144feab7de.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/world_uk_politics/feed//product …
To start, IDS's "reforms" should be scrapped. They have hammered disabled people.
In the meantime controlling net immigration would be a good start so that we can stabilise the situation.
PS It wouldn't be the first time. A large part of the civil service was redistributed across the country in an attempt to get something like that going back in the 70's & 80's IIRC.
The period of two party politics lasted only 3 years and we are back to three ( or two and a half) party politics like most of the 1974-2010 period.
https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3459/Voting-UKIP-no-longer-seen-as-a-wasted-vote-as-the-party-reaches-its-highest-ever-vote-share.aspx
It isn't about the finance, money or minimum wage. It is about the well being of the disabled.
Many of them don't even have the ability to understand the value of money in the way you do. Or the capacity to do a productive day or half days work is unlikely.
However, the inclusion with other people, the feeling of belonging, the pride of achieving any little goal is priceless.
Your attitude takes that away. If I employ them for a day to do two hours work I have to pay 7.5 hours pay. How many will experience the joy of employment? (and it is a joy for many)
Think beyond the money, that is an irrelevant distraction and look at the well being of the people employment helps. Then you will learn and understand, or go to some charities putting disabled into employment and experience it first hand.
"Tonight, Matthew.... I am gong to be Nigel Farage..."
I actually find the suggestion that people come to England just for the benefits system one of the less worthy reasons for leaving the EU... most EU migrants come here to work and pay taxes.
Its allowing the free movement of labour undercutting our own workers that irks me.. our government is here to protect us, not undermine us and put us on the dole. They must have known this was an unintended consequence of opening the doors
"Mr Rees-Mogg decided to have lunch with Mr Wheeler in the Strangers’ Dining Room in full view of fellow MPs, rather than surreptitiously, was to quell speculation that the MP for North East Somerset was about to defect to the enemy camp."
Classy :-)
"The duo – along with former Conservative MP-turned Ukip activist Christopher Gill – discussed the feasibility of a legal challenge to block the government’s plans to readopt the European arrest warrant later this year."
Very encouraging. I thought this had already gone through.
Solving our immigration problems would not stop my total opposition to the EU.
Makes me dislike Cameron a bit really. Doesn't he have any genuine convictions?
Apartheid SA visit/Mandela gushing
Section 28/Gay Marriage
Huskies/Green Crap
...and now this
He quite obviously is a Europhile, its embarrassing to see him desperately trying to spin the line that he might really want to leave, when everyone knows he is only doing it to win votes
Whatever you think of Farage, he has devoted 20 years to leaving the EU because he hates the EU
Goodnight.
'Yeah sure. Disabled people are worth the legal minimum wage, like any worker. Unlike Cameron's Tories,'
Obviously you weren't aware of Patricia Hewitt's White Paper when Secretary of State in 2003. She wanted to pay then £4 a day, let alone £2 an hour.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793688/farage-backs-miliband-ukip-want-labour-win-election-fear-cameron-win-eu-referendum.html
Of course a referendum under Miliband (whose brother signed the Lisbon Treaty) would be easier to win because there would be no negotiation at all and the Tories would likely be forced to oppose Miliband and therefore demand withdrawal because it would effectively be on the Lisbon Treaty which they have historically opposed.
The Tories opposing the government proposal instead of sponsoring it would clearly put the out camp in a stronger position.
I wrote an article on this that has some stats
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/20/mass-migration-is-a-tax-on-working-classes
For those with some physical disabilities, such as being a wheelchair users, although certainly still hard, I think it isn't as unexpected that they are able to gain employment and should be looking to do so. Being a wheelchair user shouldn't be a barrier and isn't as much as it used to be. Places like shops and offices are far more accessible than they used to be, although more needs to be done, attitudes have certainly changed a lot.
However, for those with an intellectual disability, there is a genuine problem here. Many employers wont employ people in this position, especially when they have to pay minimum wage and there is plenty of people looking for work who would take the job for the same money. Furthermore, there is still very much the benefits trap, many people are told (not advised...still terrible attitudes here from professionals) they will lose income if they go to work part time. In fact worse, many are told flat out by "professionals" they aren't capable of working in a normal working environment.
The real debate is how can we make work accessible to all, and not penalise the individual / encourage business to hire. We do need a grown up debate.
I don't have a simple answer, but we do need to look to some sort of system whereby we can break the current cycle whereby 10,000's of people, who have a learning difficulty are simply put onto benefits for the rest of their lives.
Remploy factories was / is not a solution either. Again too many do gooders think that these kind of schemes are the way forward. To put it bluntly, it is just putting a big badge saying "special" people over there, they can ONLY do these kind of tasks, regardless of if people wanted to work there, what they are capable of doing etc.
Any chance that Farage will finally make up his mind on whether or not he wants an EU referendum?
'Ukip leader Nigel Farage suggested over the weekend that if his party gains enough MPs to hold the balance of power in next May’s general election, it would demand a vote on EU membership by the end of July – before any renegotiation of powers could take place.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793688/farage-backs-miliband-ukip-want-labour-win-election-fear-cameron-win-eu-referendum.html#ixzz3GG5a1tOo
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The whole place was full of Marxists and SWP members, so that didn't help! I couldn't be associated with such wallies!
"For the UK specifically, the OECD found that – even excluding the future cost of pensions - immigrant households on average paid less in tax and received more in benefits than UK-born households."
http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/international-migration-outlook-2013_migr_outlook-2013-en
"The Migration Advisory Committee[17], after reviewing previous studies, reported in January 2012 (para 4.39) that migrants had little or no impact on average wages. However, migrants were found to increase wages at the top of the UK wage distribution and to lower wages at the bottom. It is worth noting that these studies largely looked at periods before the recession and before the upsurge in immigration from 2004 onwards."
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/257235/analysis-of-the-impacts.pdf
These quotes are taken from MigrationWatch.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/1.34
#LibDems' GB by-election %-ages since GE 2010 - 10 lost deposits from 18. Only 3 polls higher than 20% #Clacton
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/522402890598858752
Sunil Prasannan @Sunil_P2 · 5m 5 minutes ago
#LibDems % change in vote at GB by-elections vs. GE 2010 for each seat. Only Oldham East showed increase... of 0.3%.
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/522529343847673856
That means that the British people that have to adapt and compete have to work longer hours for worse pay, etc etc they have to downgrade their plans.. and all because the government deliberately flooded their market with cheaper competition
So that's why its a stealth tax IMO.
Farage said he didn't want an EU referendum in 2017, but one sometime in the distant future if and when the Tories win an election and if & when they have an anti EU leader.
Now he wants one in July next year.
Surely time for him to $hit or get off the pot.
For the record I want an EU referendum and will vote to leave but have no confidence in Farage's antics,he seems too wedded to the Brussels gravy train to be taken seriously.
Sadly 'the pot' is so full of establishment $hit that it is out of service.
PS If Farage was so wedded to the Brussels gravy train why is it he has chosen to fight the most likely UKIP win in the General Election. When he wins Thanet South he will cease to be an MEP and become an MP. Why would someone who is so wedded to Brussels give it up so readily?
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/10/15/Legal-Advice-Reveals-Tories-on-Dodgy-Ground-in-Rochester/
The stuff about a fair and honest referendum is just an excuse to keep kicking it into the long grass.
Farage always fights a seat at the UK GE safe in the knowledge that he's always got the Brussels gravy train to fall back on.
Now that would be priceless!
PS And Farage is answerable to the electorate like everybody else in the EU Parliament. None of them have got the Brussels Gravy Train to fall back on if they haven't got the voters mandate and as he was top of the largest vote in the Euros he has the largest mandate to be there!
'If he's calling for a referendum in July 2015. TWO YEARS before anyone else how the hell is that kicking it into the long grass? '
Because we know he'll come up with yet another excuse to change the date & kick it into the long grass ,he's already done it three times.
You seriously believe Farage is interested in a referendum.
Farage has spent the last 20 years fighting for withdrawal from the EU and as much as a referendum will deliver that withdrawal of course he's interested in holding one that will achieve that aim.
Farage hasn't kicked anything into any long grass. He has not had the power to do anything beforehand. It has been the three establishment parties who have set the narrative. Only now have UKIP had any sort of slim chance of having any influence in such matters and then only if they win enough seats to become kingmaker. Even so he has called for a referendum two months after the moment when that slim chance is due to come to fruition.
He is not David Cameron who said he wanted a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and then when that became obsolete but he was in a position to do something then said he didn't want one and then avoided using his own referendum lock legislation to hold one whilst handing over power to Brussels only then to decide to use a referendum (not immediately but 3 years hence from the date he announced it) as a means to extort Eurosceptic voters into voting for his Europhile party in 2015 when he has no intention of taking us out of the EU.
You seem to be confusing Farage with the likes of the establishment parties who have prevaricated over a referendum for the last 25 years or more.
My favourite track of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHzeIIl3Lk4
Peterson was a great pianist, but he strikes me as a pastiche of several styles, who never really found his own distinctive voice...
The two pianists to listen to are:-
Art Tatum (aka God) [Peterson gave up for a while after hearing him. Others gave up altogether...]
Bill Evans (deeply introspective, his music described as "love letters written from some prison of the heart..."); [influenced all modern pianists, Keith Jarrett, Elaine Elias, Diana Krall, Brad Mehldau, etc.]
I imagine there would be a strong case to say that a rerun would be unfair because of the financial implication of running a second campaign and the fact that the party at fault had suffered no punishment but who knows what the courts might decide?
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/150499/Challenging-elections-in-the-UK.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeFTuW6stE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yLbd4O2Ls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFoapxPvZy4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwUOLyYsTso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Daa-Hj84eo