Tim/Another Richard - But Farage himself went to Dulwich (even if his deputy, Paul Nuttall, went to a comp)
But Farage, or for that matter Blair or Boris, doesn't give the impression of looking down upon those who didn't.
Neither did the likes of Douglas-Home or Douglas Hurd. They might have appeared rather grand and somewhat out of touch but they never exuded the petulant arrogance that the Cameroons and their supporters do.
Its one thing being born into a more privileged position in life but people with real class don't think themselves better or need to think themselves better than others because of it.
But the Cameroons wallow in a "I'm superior to you and I want you to feel inferior" mentality. The arrogance and insecurity which the Cameroons suffer from REQUIRES everyone else to feel inferior.
That's the mentality which causes revolutions and that's what we're now seeing on the political right.
The general theme is right, but in fairness I don't think Cameron's manner is especially arrogant (the accusation sticks better to Osborne). A real problem in both public perception and jealousy within Parliament is his evident preference for personal favourites - since these happen mostly to be from his social circle, it does reinforce the impression of loftiness (tha'ts where the Etonian clique stuff comes from, not just because he went there himself). All PMs like to have acolytes around them whom they find compatible - curiously, Brown was probably the least so inclined, with a striking willingness to include long-term critics like Clarke in his Cabinet, but that may have reflected his weak political position. Since Cameron's position is also now shaky, perhaps he should be looking for some counter-intuitive appointments, e.g. bringing David Davis back.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
Moi - "public school Tory" !!!!!!
How very dare you Madam !!!!!!
However your point about "contemptuous disdain" for Ukip is correct. But in my view it should be the default position of all voters toward all political parties lest we encourage the b*stards !!
Give them an inch and they'll extort the last penny in tax and the last liberty of our freedoms. Thus they are the lamp post to out cocked leg and long may we be able to urinate in their direction.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
Moi - "public school Tory" !!!!!!
How very dare you Madam !!!!!!
However your point about "contemptuous disdain" for Ukip is correct. But in my view it should be the default position of all voters toward all political parties lest we encourage the b*stards !!
Give them an inch and they'll extort the last penny in tax and the last liberty of our freedoms. Thus they are the lamp post to out cocked leg and long may we be able to urinate in their direction.
Luncheon beckons ....
Toodles ....
A surpringly anti-establishment view Jack.
I'm curious as to how you reconcile it with your old Jacobite leanings.
Divine Right of Kings being a Jacobite belief.
Anyway have a good lunch but isn't it a little early (and the wrong day of the week) to be having luncheon ?
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
Moi - "public school Tory" !!!!!!
How very dare you Madam !!!!!!
However your point about "contemptuous disdain" for Ukip is correct. But in my view it should be the default position of all voters toward all political parties lest we encourage the b*stards !!
Give them an inch and they'll extort the last penny in tax and the last liberty of our freedoms. Thus they are the lamp post to out cocked leg and long may we be able to urinate in their direction.
Luncheon beckons ....
Toodles ....
JackW you are completely ludicrous. And with that I'm going for a walk in the park.
LABOUR are investigating claims new members were signed up in Falkirk by the party's biggest trades union affiliate without the individuals completing application forms or agreeing to join.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
May I suggest UKIP often hold other people view's in disdain as well? A few weeks ago I was chatting to a UKIP supporter and member on here, who happened to be local to me. When I said I was generally in favour of certain new developments in the area, he said that there were three other parties I could vote for.
For all he knew I might have been in agreement with all of UKIP's other policies. But for him, that one policy was enough to tell me to p*** off and vote for someone else.
It wasn't exactly mature politics.
Kippers know what makes them angry but don't know how to fix the problems. Their answers tend to be simplistic and not practical. One kipper-inclined female who I know said that the UK pays too much to the EU and should unilaterally pay nothing.
"The general theme is right, but in fairness I don't think Cameron's manner is especially arrogant (the accusation sticks better to Osborne)."
I've had my suspicions about Cameron ever since the cycle and chauffer photostunt.
I think this also might be a case where those not on the political right don't sense Cameron's arrogance/dislike of them but those on the political right do.
To me Cameron seems to view his enemies as people WITHIN the Conservative party/movement rather than those outside.
LABOUR are investigating claims new members were signed up in Falkirk by the party's biggest trades union affiliate without the individuals completing application forms or agreeing to join.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
May I suggest UKIP often hold other people view's in disdain as well? A few weeks ago I was chatting to a UKIP supporter and member on here, who happened to be local to me. When I said I was generally in favour of certain new developments in the area, he said that there were three other parties I could vote for.
For all he knew I might have been in agreement with all of UKIP's other policies. But for him, that one policy was enough to tell me to p*** off and vote for someone else.
It wasn't exactly mature politics.
Kippers know what makes them angry but don't know how to fix the problems. Their answers tend to be simplistic and not practical. One kipper-inclined female who I know said that the UK pays too much to the EU and should unilaterally pay nothing.
The problems are too fubdamental to be fixed.
But at least some people are aware of these problems.
While the establishment pretends otherwise and presides over continual long term damage whilst allowing a continual wealth transfer towards the rich.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
Moi - "public school Tory" !!!!!!
How very dare you Madam !!!!!!
However your point about "contemptuous disdain" for Ukip is correct. But in my view it should be the default position of all voters toward all political parties lest we encourage the b*stards !!
Give them an inch and they'll extort the last penny in tax and the last liberty of our freedoms. Thus they are the lamp post to out cocked leg and long may we be able to urinate in their direction.
Luncheon beckons ....
Toodles ....
JackW you are completely ludicrous. And with that I'm going for a walk in the park.
Though to think of I don't recall you ever showing any contemtuous disdain towards Cameron and precious little to the Cameroons in general.
Local elections in Italy today (and tomorrow). All eyes on Rome mayoral race. But I expect a run off there in 2 weeks.
Timothy Kirkhope MEP re-selected by Yorkshire Tories. So he will top the 2014 Euro list there (and he's already assured to go back to Bruxelles...unless UK leave the EU before the Euro elections!)
Tim/Another Richard - But Farage himself went to Dulwich (even if his deputy, Paul Nuttall, went to a comp)
But Farage, or for that matter Blair or Boris, doesn't give the impression of looking down upon those who didn't.
Neither did the likes of Douglas-Home or Douglas Hurd. They might have appeared rather grand and somewhat out of touch but they never exuded the petulant arrogance that the Cameroons and their supporters do.
Its one thing being born into a more privileged position in life but people with real class don't think themselves better or need to think themselves better than others because of it.
But the Cameroons wallow in a "I'm superior to you and I want you to feel inferior" mentality. The arrogance and insecurity which the Cameroons suffer from REQUIRES everyone else to feel inferior.
That's the mentality which causes revolutions and that's what we're now seeing on the political right.
Indeed,
in a number of interviews Farage has said one of the reasons he enjoyed Dulwich so much is that it had a very large number of scholarship pupils which meant there was a much wider mix of social backgrounds compared to other public schools.
I seem to have completely inadvertantly upset Josias; I know, because he has repeated his observation about a comment I made. I tried to make the point that I was against the over-development of Cambridge, with seemingly an ever increasing density of population/acre. I'm against building in my village, and all the other villages around Cambridge as well. I don't want to see encroachment into the green belt.
I was surprised how relaxed all the Lab/Lib/Con candidates were about meeting artificial govt targets to build N 000 extra houses in the M11 corridor, by the year X.
It is understood that the govt can do little to address the issues of people chasing work in Cambridge, and the growing incidence of single person households. About the only significant thing a govt can do is to substantially reduce nett migration. And the only way that is achievable is by quitting the EU.
Another crititism of UKIP is they 'don't know how to fix the problems'. That's probably fair. Where UKIP is making a real contribution is by asking the right questions. That is often by querying unspoken, and not agreed, assumptions on which policy is being made.
Remember to write to the Police about EU fraud. This is Criminal the Police should investigate it. the is nobody in this country above the law not even the prime minister.
I seem to have completely inadvertantly upset Josias; I know, because he has repeated his observation about a comment I made. I tried to make the point that I was against the over-development of Cambridge, with seemingly an ever increasing density of population/acre. I'm against building in my village, and all the other villages around Cambridge as well. I don't want to see encroachment into the green belt.
I was surprised how relaxed all the Lab/Lib/Con candidates were about meeting artificial govt targets to build N 000 extra houses in the M11 corridor, by the year X.
It is understood that the govt can do little to address the issues of people chasing work in Cambridge, and the growing incidence of single person households. About the only significant thing a govt can do is to substantially reduce nett migration. And the only way that is achievable is by quitting the EU.
Another crititism of UKIP is they 'don't know how to fix the problems'. That's probably fair. Where UKIP is making a real contribution is by asking the right questions. That is often by querying unspoken, and not agreed, assumptions on which policy is being made.
I wan't upset: I just thought your comment wasn't exactly a way to get anyone to vote for you or your party.
I take a different view from you on the development of the area; we could only afford to buy a house in the area due to the presence of villages like Cambourne. If we had not been able to buy, despite our above-average salaries, then we may have accepted jobs elsewhere in the country. I therefore have to be careful about objecting to other developments, my views on which I have mentioned before and will not bore people with now.
Are you in favour of the high-tech sector in Cambridge, and are you aware of how many of them employ EU and non-EU nationals? If we put restrictions not just on non-EU nationals, but EU nationals as well, how do you think that will effect the companies in the area you seek to represent, and the wider Cambridge area?
(By the way, I agree about the density of housing, even if we disagree about the need for more housing. The housing density in Cambourne feels tight (especially in the newly developed areas of Upper Cambourne), and Northstowe et al are going to have an even higher density - an average of 40 houses per hectare. This, in my mind, will be a mistake. They got some things right in Cambourne - it isn't a bad place to live or bring up kids. Northstowe will have a very different feel if they are not careful)
Many working class people who hated the 80s loony left will vote ukip
I just wish we had more data - the only things we have are the win for UKIP in a Rotherham council election and the reasonable performance in South Shields.- together with a not-so-good performance in a very few council elections earlier.
Ideas are like that. If someone makes a convincing argument based on premises I already accept, I have no choice but to believe it. I'm forced to believe the argument, even if I don't want to.
I'm a public school Tory, but I'm pretty well-disposed towards UKIP. But it's the case that UKIP struggles with upper-middle class voters, unless there's a specific issue that riles them, like HS2.
Many working class people who hated the 80s loony left will vote ukip
It seems a very sensible plan. Next year the main focus may be on the Euro elections but it is important to remember there are more local elections too:
- All of the boroughs in the former counties of G. London, G. Manchester, W Mids, Merseyside, Tyne & Wear, W Yorks, S Yorks - A third in the other unitary councils - A third or half in some districts
I suspect that overall Labour will be defending more seats than the Tories are.
The key councils UKIP will be targeting will I guess include Doncaster, Rotherham, Barnsley, Kirklees, Calderdale, Barking, Havering and maybe Oldham and Dudley.
Could be another difficult night for both Cameron (if he is still there) and Miliband. Miliband will hope that any gains from the Tories e.g. in Bexley can outweigh any losses to UKIP
Many working class people who hated the 80s loony left will vote ukip
I just wish we had more data - the only things we have are the win for UKIP in a Rotherham council election and the reasonable performance in South Shields.- together with a not-so-good performance in a very few council elections earlier.
Tim/Another Richard - But Farage himself went to Dulwich (even if his deputy, Paul Nuttall, went to a comp)
But Farage, or for that matter Blair or Boris, doesn't give the impression of looking down upon those who didn't.
Neither did the likes of Douglas-Home or Douglas Hurd. They might have appeared rather grand and somewhat out of touch but they never exuded the petulant arrogance that the Cameroons and their supporters do.
Its one thing being born into a more privileged position in life but people with real class don't think themselves better or need to think themselves better than others because of it.
But the Cameroons wallow in a "I'm superior to you and I want you to feel inferior" mentality. The arrogance and insecurity which the Cameroons suffer from REQUIRES everyone else to feel inferior.
That's the mentality which causes revolutions and that's what we're now seeing on the political right.
Indeed,
in a number of interviews Farage has said one of the reasons he enjoyed Dulwich so much is that it had a very large number of scholarship pupils which meant there was a much wider mix of social backgrounds compared to other public schools.
Nigel Farage is dissembling.
Scholarships to public schools are generally offered on merit alone and usually provide parents with remission of between 10% to 25% of annual fees.
More important are means-tested bursaries which are not only won on examination results and which can provide up to 100% of fees to qualifying parents.
The Sutton Trust in a 2010 academic report estimated that the average amount of fees remitted by independent schools through both scholarships and bursaries was 7.8% of total fee revenue.
Bursaries require the school to have large capital endowments and are therefore tend to be more plentiful from the older foundations who have acquired income generating land and property portfolios over many centuries.
Eton College, for example, aims to provide financial assistance on fees for a third of its pupils (c. 325). Eton has the highest proportion of any public school of pupils receiving 100% of fees paid. It has also recently raised £25 million in charitable donations to create a New Foundation Scholarship fund targetted solely at former state school pupils.
Dulwich College, as an old foundation from 1619, will have more endowment funds than most schools founded in the 19th and 20th century, and it offers an above average package of both bursaries and of scholarships awarded on academic merit and for proficiency in Art, Music and Sport.
Dulwich's schemes, however, are nowhere near as generous in extent as those of Eton. For Farage to claim that he had a more down to earth education because he mixed with a greater proportion of scholarship pupils than David Cameron is simply bunkum.
There will of course be cultural differences between Dulwich and Eton, but these are more likely to derive from its more local catchment area (less than 10% of pupils board); its metropolitan location and outlook; and its good but not table topping ranking and reputation (oh, the tyranny of small differences!).
Farage is as much a privileged Old Alleynian as Cameron is a privileged Old Etonian. If anyone has a claim to be a lucky man of the people, it is Boris, who owes the privilege of his education to the generosity of Eton's benefactors.
Something which I've noticed is the contemptuous disdain which the 'public school Tories' such as Avery, JackW and Eagles himself feel for UKIP.
Not good for the image of the Conservative party when a posh leadership relies on posh supporters. The whole image seems to be one of "know your place and don't talk back". The underlying arrogance being exuded, intentionally or not, is more damaging to the Conservatives than any number of policy failures.
If there's one word which the Conservatives NEED to be assoicated with its 'aspiration'.
At the moment the one word the Conservatives ARE associated with is 'privilege'.
May I suggest UKIP often hold other people view's in disdain as well? A few weeks ago I was chatting to a UKIP supporter and member on here, who happened to be local to me. When I said I was generally in favour of certain new developments in the area, he said that there were three other parties I could vote for.
For all he knew I might have been in agreement with all of UKIP's other policies. But for him, that one policy was enough to tell me to p*** off and vote for someone else.
It wasn't exactly mature politics.
Kippers know what makes them angry but don't know how to fix the problems. Their answers tend to be simplistic and not practical. One kipper-inclined female who I know said that the UK pays too much to the EU and should unilaterally pay nothing.
The problems are too fubdamental to be fixed.
But at least some people are aware of these problems.
While the establishment pretends otherwise and presides over continual long term damage whilst allowing a continual wealth transfer towards the rich.
At least the Tory-led government is making an effort with immigration and Europe. If there were simple actions which could ignore treaties/laws they would have been taken. It's going to take years of guerilla warfare to achieve an acceptable relationship with the EU. Labour locked us in to much via the law. A simplistic shout to leave the EU does not answer the kind of relationship which we could achieve on the outside. With regards to the rich getting richer, 'twas always the case whoever is in power. The reforms to welfare will activate a greater sense of self reliance and hopefully encourage people to better their lot and not just be envious of those who by luck or work are wealthier.
Comments
How very dare you Madam !!!!!!
However your point about "contemptuous disdain" for Ukip is correct. But in my view it should be the default position of all voters toward all political parties lest we encourage the b*stards !!
Give them an inch and they'll extort the last penny in tax and the last liberty of our freedoms. Thus they are the lamp post to out cocked leg and long may we be able to urinate in their direction.
Luncheon beckons ....
Toodles ....
I'm curious as to how you reconcile it with your old Jacobite leanings.
Divine Right of Kings being a Jacobite belief.
Anyway have a good lunch but isn't it a little early (and the wrong day of the week) to be having luncheon ?
LABOUR are investigating claims new members were signed up in Falkirk by the party's biggest trades union affiliate without the individuals completing application forms or agreeing to join.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/political-news/labour-in-bogus-members-probe.21143585
I've had my suspicions about Cameron ever since the cycle and chauffer photostunt.
I think this also might be a case where those not on the political right don't sense Cameron's arrogance/dislike of them but those on the political right do.
To me Cameron seems to view his enemies as people WITHIN the Conservative party/movement rather than those outside.
But at least some people are aware of these problems.
While the establishment pretends otherwise and presides over continual long term damage whilst allowing a continual wealth transfer towards the rich.
Timothy Kirkhope MEP re-selected by Yorkshire Tories. So he will top the 2014 Euro list there (and he's already assured to go back to Bruxelles...unless UK leave the EU before the Euro elections!)
in a number of interviews Farage has said one of the reasons he enjoyed Dulwich so much is that it had a very large number of scholarship pupils which meant there was a much wider mix of social backgrounds compared to other public schools.
I seem to have completely inadvertantly upset Josias; I know, because he has repeated his observation about a comment I made. I tried to make the point that I was against the over-development of Cambridge, with seemingly an ever increasing density of population/acre. I'm against building in my village, and all the other villages around Cambridge as well. I don't want to see encroachment into the green belt.
I was surprised how relaxed all the Lab/Lib/Con candidates were about meeting artificial govt targets to build N 000 extra houses in the M11 corridor, by the year X.
It is understood that the govt can do little to address the issues of people chasing work in Cambridge, and the growing incidence of single person households. About the only significant thing a govt can do is to substantially reduce nett migration. And the only way that is achievable is by quitting the EU.
Another crititism of UKIP is they 'don't know how to fix the problems'. That's probably fair. Where UKIP is making a real contribution is by asking the right questions. That is often by querying unspoken, and not agreed, assumptions on which policy is being made.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22671619
Good afternoon, everyone.
The race is due to start in about 9 minutes.
I take a different view from you on the development of the area; we could only afford to buy a house in the area due to the presence of villages like Cambourne. If we had not been able to buy, despite our above-average salaries, then we may have accepted jobs elsewhere in the country. I therefore have to be careful about objecting to other developments, my views on which I have mentioned before and will not bore people with now.
Are you in favour of the high-tech sector in Cambridge, and are you aware of how many of them employ EU and non-EU nationals? If we put restrictions not just on non-EU nationals, but EU nationals as well, how do you think that will effect the companies in the area you seek to represent, and the wider Cambridge area?
(By the way, I agree about the density of housing, even if we disagree about the need for more housing. The housing density in Cambourne feels tight (especially in the newly developed areas of Upper Cambourne), and Northstowe et al are going to have an even higher density - an average of 40 houses per hectare. This, in my mind, will be a mistake. They got some things right in Cambourne - it isn't a bad place to live or bring up kids. Northstowe will have a very different feel if they are not careful)
Ideas are like that. If someone makes a convincing argument based on premises I already accept, I have no choice but to believe it. I'm forced to believe the argument, even if I don't want to.
- All of the boroughs in the former counties of G. London, G. Manchester, W Mids, Merseyside, Tyne & Wear, W Yorks, S Yorks
- A third in the other unitary councils
- A third or half in some districts
I suspect that overall Labour will be defending more seats than the Tories are.
The key councils UKIP will be targeting will I guess include Doncaster, Rotherham, Barnsley, Kirklees, Calderdale, Barking, Havering and maybe Oldham and Dudley.
Could be another difficult night for both Cameron (if he is still there) and Miliband. Miliband will hope that any gains from the Tories e.g. in Bexley can outweigh any losses to UKIP
Scholarships to public schools are generally offered on merit alone and usually provide parents with remission of between 10% to 25% of annual fees.
More important are means-tested bursaries which are not only won on examination results and which can provide up to 100% of fees to qualifying parents.
The Sutton Trust in a 2010 academic report estimated that the average amount of fees remitted by independent schools through both scholarships and bursaries was 7.8% of total fee revenue.
Bursaries require the school to have large capital endowments and are therefore tend to be more plentiful from the older foundations who have acquired income generating land and property portfolios over many centuries.
Eton College, for example, aims to provide financial assistance on fees for a third of its pupils (c. 325). Eton has the highest proportion of any public school of pupils receiving 100% of fees paid. It has also recently raised £25 million in charitable donations to create a New Foundation Scholarship fund targetted solely at former state school pupils.
Dulwich College, as an old foundation from 1619, will have more endowment funds than most schools founded in the 19th and 20th century, and it offers an above average package of both bursaries and of scholarships awarded on academic merit and for proficiency in Art, Music and Sport.
Dulwich's schemes, however, are nowhere near as generous in extent as those of Eton. For Farage to claim that he had a more down to earth education because he mixed with a greater proportion of scholarship pupils than David Cameron is simply bunkum.
There will of course be cultural differences between Dulwich and Eton, but these are more likely to derive from its more local catchment area (less than 10% of pupils board); its metropolitan location and outlook; and its good but not table topping ranking and reputation (oh, the tyranny of small differences!).
Farage is as much a privileged Old Alleynian as Cameron is a privileged Old Etonian. If anyone has a claim to be a lucky man of the people, it is Boris, who owes the privilege of his education to the generosity of Eton's benefactors.