I remember the Kinnocks going there'll be no vote change at all, then changing their tune, agreeing with us, that it wouldn't last.
Nah, one of the most dedicated PB Tories, Plato, even declared she'd "rejoined" the Party because of it. Couldn't even PRETEND she was a "floating voter" any more. It was THAT GOOD!
Really holed UKIP below the waterline that veto though hey.
Ludicrous Wirrall-based twat. Nailed by Socrates. Give it up.
The ghost of tim still terrifies the raving right !
Seriously? Terrifies the right? This is a little backwater of the internet, some dork with mediocre Google skills is not a position to terrify anyone, bore yes, terrify no. You need to raise your sights higher than some stay at home dad who lives off the earnings of his wife to hero worship.
So irrelevant was he that some Tory scumbags on a little internet backwater maliciously threatened his family by revealing personal details.
Tory scumbags that are still allowed to post on a little internet backwater.
Calm down dear, your hero was not adverse to being malicious to other posters on here, oddly mainly women, if the cowardly little runt didn't want the same tactics used against him he shouldn't have started it. When Sean T reposted his already well known details it was in direct retaliation, he couldn't stand the same abuse he was willing to hand out, the true mark of a bully and a coward.
How telling.
"his already well known details"
Let's think about that for a sec, yeah?
Lefties have never felt comfortable here. We still don't, especially after certain things. It's a shame, all views should be welcome. I personally think Mike should keep a tighter ship, but there you are.
Let's think about it. His details were well known and only repeated in direct retaliation to his attack on another poster, then like a cowardly bully he ran away, anymore thinking you would like? Or is the fact that your whine about Tim is as a direct result of what he did to another poster a bit too deep for you?
He was a bully and a coward and regardless of other posters feelings about him the quality of the board increased with his tail between the legs departure.
BBC repoting that Labour say EV4EL will result in 'two classes of MP' and more time is needed.
Can't disagree with the 1st part. Yes there is already some difference but EV4EL coupled with DevoMAX produces a dramatic unsustainable 2nd class.
The 2nd part needing more time to think up an answer is a disgrace for a professional MP given than the WLQ was asked in 1977.
In my view DevoMAX leads inexorably to EV4EL, a de facto English parliament and ultimately an indepedent Scotland and therefore doesn't have a democratic mandate.
Astonishing. The Labour High Command seems to be entrenching themselves into a clear "f*ck the English" position.
This is running sooooo badly {in my direct experience) with boring, non-political English voters (ie., my in-laws).
Good luck Ed....arguing vs EV4EL ..cut your own throat resisting this
Like father like son. Ralph Miliband is the midst of the blitz, 'The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose (the war) to show them how things are.'
LOL so despite supplementary questions LAB lead increases.
fieldwork would have been Thurs/Fri so partially reflects the Scotch vote, EV4EL won't quite have made an impact. The Labour increase is probably down to Gord's visibility. UKIP are up as well, their recent trend has been slightly downwards.
I believe the YG fieldwork is always up to the morning, so it'll be Fri/Sat. After all, the same poll is asking questions about the same people's view of EV4EL, which as you say wouldn't have registered on Thur/Fri. I don't really think the shifts in the poll show any significant movement (once again).
I think people will generally feel EV4EL is quite a good idea because it sounds reasonable, but they are mostly unlikely to think it's very salient to their lives. None of the 146 people we saw today - admittedly in a pro-Labour WWC ward - mentioned it. If the Tories want to pursue it I expect they can raise the salience level a bit, at the expense of not talking about something else. I wouldn't think it's a magic bullet myself, but nothing to stop them trying.
Astonishing. The Labour High Command seems to be entrenching themselves into a clear "f*ck the English" position.
This is running sooooo badly {in my direct experience) with boring, non-political English voters (ie., my in-laws).
Good luck Ed....arguing vs EV4EL ..cut your own throat resisting this
Nah, Tories want to mess around with the way politicians do stuff, they'll probably end up with more expenses I should think.
Labour want to sort out the Cost of Living Crisis by freezing leccy bills and making the rich pay more tax.
Good luck Gidders...
Ok Hugh. I will discount what I have heard this weekend. From real people, Because clearly you know better........
EV4EL. Easy concept. Obviously fair...Labour have decent arguments on various matters..on this however it is stupid to resist., Your English voters agree with it.
For some reason Cameron believes that Labour should just agree to some deal not to allow its non English MP's to take part in parliamentary business involving purely English matters. Why should they do this ? It is not Labours fault that the Tories don't win seats in Scotland. I bet Welsh Tory MP's currently vote on English matters.
Ed Miliband is not falling for this. Cameron signed up to the Scottish devomax deal and he has to get on with it. Tory backbenchers are not Milibands problem. Miliband has indicated that he is willing to have some form of commission or committee look at how they make changes to reflect devolution and this will take place after May 2015. There is no chance of any changes to the way parliament works before May 2015 with all the other stuff going on and an election campaign period. Cameron is just playing politics.
I don't see why they need to agree. Could Cameron not just simply pass it with the Lib Dems? If the Lib Dems want to break up the Coalition over it, that's fine, but firstly it's not really the note they want to go out on, and secondly it would involve giving up nearly a year's time in Government.
They can't do it anyway. Ken Clarke looked in to this and I believe that constitutional experts said that they can only restrict MP participation in committee stage. For any other stage of a bill, all MP's are equal. This is why Cameron is wanting Labour and other parties to agree some form of administrative deal between them.
To summarise, it is not possible for the Tories to pass a bill that restricts the rights of Westminsters MP's to vote only on certain issues. Erskine May cannot be updated in this way, as it not constituitionally proper.
If Labour blocks EV4EL and Labour and Libdems block an EU referendum, Cammo will go into the 2015 GE saying you can have both if you have a Conservative majority. What's not to like?
It only appeals to right wing frothers ?
Most people more interested in the state of the NHS and fall in living standards IMO
Labour didn't seem bothered by the shortcomings of NHS whilst they were in power.
You are quite right, it was an exaggeration done for effect, but the substantive point is correct. You could do the UKIP cause a far greater service on PB if you argued you points, as with the VAT discussion up thread. - while you behave like a mindless idiot in the comment threads of the Mail or Telegraph you diminish yourself, and that is from someone who is very sympathetic to many UKIP policies.
You really do have a rather over-inflated view of your opinions don't you? Personally I think making fatuous comments that are obviously false is idiotic even if you think it creates an 'effect' but there again that's only my opinion.
First, ever since Cameron became leader of the Conservatives in 2005, he has indeed been a major asset to Ukip; they always pick up support among voters who say they dislike Dave.
Second, this link between anti-Cameron sentiment and Ukip support was weakest right at the beginning of the Coalition, over 2010-2011, but since then this has become dramatically stronger as Ukip have surged in the polls. In the surveys that were conducted since the start of 2012, support for Ukip among those most hostile to Cameron is almost 20 percentage points higher than among those who say they like him. Cameron has always been an asset for Ukip, but since 2012 those who dislike Dave have been switching to Farage in droves. Dave really is a recruiting sergeant for the rebel movement, but that is also not the end of the story.
ED MILIBAND was facing internal dissent over his refusal to support home rule for England last night as Labour MPs broke cover to condemn his position as untenable.
Senior figures say up to six members of Miliband’s frontbench team support reforms restricting the right of Scottish MPs to vote on English laws — and are prepared to say so publicly.
The issue now threatens to disrupt Labour’s party conference, which begins in Manchester today.
David Cameron and Nick Clegg last night launched a pincer movement to isolate the Labour leader, with Downing Street saying the prime minister believes it is “unthinkable” that the rights of the English should be ignored. And in an article for The Sunday Times, Clegg accused Labour of “ignoring” England because they have “most to lose” if Scottish MPs have their voting rights restricted
Astonishing. The Labour High Command seems to be entrenching themselves into a clear "f*ck the English" position.
This is running sooooo badly {in my direct experience) with boring, non-political English voters (ie., my in-laws).
Good luck Ed....arguing vs EV4EL ..cut your own throat resisting this
Nah, Tories want to mess around with the way politicians do stuff, they'll probably end up with more expenses I should think.
Labour want to sort out the Cost of Living Crisis by freezing leccy bills and making the rich pay more tax.
Good luck Gidders...
So I suppose guaranteeing the Barnett Formula in perpetuity so that some EU Bureaucrat can send his or her kids to University in Scotland for free whilst English Kids are discriminated against and have to lumber themselves with bloody great student loans is fighting the cost of living crisis is it.
As is making English voters pay additional taxes so that Fred Goodwin can enjoy free prescriptions if he so wishes whilst English voters have to pay. Yeah that'll help people's cost of living crisis south of the border and work on the doorstep to boot.
BBC repoting that Labour say EV4EL will result in 'two classes of MP' and more time is needed.
Can't disagree with the 1st part. Yes there is already some difference but EV4EL coupled with DevoMAX produces a dramatic unsustainable 2nd class.
The 2nd part needing more time to think up an answer is a disgrace for a professional MP given than the WLQ was asked in 1977.
In my view DevoMAX leads inexorably to EV4EL, a de facto English parliament and ultimately an indepedent Scotland and therefore doesn't have a democratic mandate.
The 1st Part is fatuous anyway because there are two 'classes' of representative in the other home nations dealing with the Parliamentary workload of English MP's anyway. Its Labour's fault that is the case as well.
Astonishing. The Labour High Command seems to be entrenching themselves into a clear "f*ck the English" position.
This is running sooooo badly {in my direct experience) with boring, non-political English voters (ie., my in-laws).
Good luck Ed....arguing vs EV4EL ..cut your own throat resisting this
Nah, Tories want to mess around with the way politicians do stuff, they'll probably end up with more expenses I should think.
Labour want to sort out the Cost of Living Crisis by freezing leccy bills and making the rich pay more tax.
Good luck Gidders...
Ok Hugh. I will discount what I have heard this weekend. From real people, Because clearly you know better........
EV4EL. Easy concept. Obviously fair...Labour have decent arguments on various matters..on this however it is stupid to resist., Your English voters agree with it.
Conceed this one.. and find another front.
I wouldn't concede it
It's hardly 'fair' as David Herdson's article this morning highlighted. Scotland has control over devolved budgets and all aspects of policy development. English MP's do not. Whilst they may be proposing an English only caucus of parliamentarians. They are not proposing and English only government caucus of Ministers who will control the agendas and funding of devolved departments nor as far as I am aware an English only caucus in the House Of Lords.
So home nation representatives in government can still fully control the funding of devolved English Areas and in the House Of Lords reject any amendments made by the English caucus in the HoC. So basically the only power English MP's have got is the ability to block government legislation much as the House Of Representatives in the US can block the Presidential budget. Something that has done them no good at all in the eyes of the voters.
'@BBCPeterH: Ed Miliband has pulled out of planned BBC interviews tomorrow. No sign of problem at SE reception tonight #strange http://t.co/aFS4gWXLrg'
How did they manage to control the crowd at the SE reception?
You weren't around when PB Kinnocks jizzed themselves inside out when Dave went shopping in Morrisons.
But who can forget Cameron's "Veto"?
PB Tories thought it was Cameron's falklands moment. Kleenex had to cancel leave.
Saw off UKIP that, didn't it. Worked out well. Lol.
Err no, most of us said it wouldn't last.
I remember the Kinnocks going there'll be no vote change at all, then changing their tune, agreeing with us, that it wouldn't last.
Nah, one of the most dedicated PB Tories, Plato, even declared she'd "rejoined" the Party because of it. Couldn't even PRETEND she was a "floating voter" any more. It was THAT GOOD!
Really holed UKIP below the waterline that veto though hey.
You started posting long after Plato was here talking about being a floating voter. It's almost like you were here around the same time as that poster tim. You'd have got along well with him: he liked marginalising the stories of hundreds of children getting raped too.
Ludicrous Wirrall-based twat. Nailed by Socrates. Give it up.
Still feel bad don't you. That little flicker of humanity in you. We all know it.
You might have had an excuse. Almost. But Plato should be banned for life.
But there you go.
PS I am not Tim.
Those of us that were familiar with tim would know you are not him.
Although like tim you do seem to have an unhealthy fixation on Plato,
You weren't around when PB Kinnocks jizzed themselves inside out when Dave went shopping in Morrisons.
But who can forget Cameron's "Veto"?
PB Tories thought it was Cameron's falklands moment. Kleenex had to cancel leave.
Saw off UKIP that, didn't it. Worked out well. Lol.
Err no, most of us said it wouldn't last.
I remember the Kinnocks going there'll be no vote change at all, then changing their tune, agreeing with us, that it wouldn't last.
Nah, one of the most dedicated PB Tories, Plato, even declared she'd "rejoined" the Party because of it. Couldn't even PRETEND she was a "floating voter" any more. It was THAT GOOD!
Really holed UKIP below the waterline that veto though hey.
You started posting long after Plato was here talking about being a floating voter. It's almost like you were here around the same time as that poster tim. You'd have got along well with him: he liked marginalising the stories of hundreds of children getting raped too.
Ludicrous Wirrall-based twat. Nailed by Socrates. Give it up.
The ghost of tim still terrifies the raving right !
Seriously? Terrifies the right? This is a little backwater of the internet, some dork with mediocre Google skills is not a position to terrify anyone, bore yes, terrify no. You need to raise your sights higher than some stay at home dad who lives off the earnings of his wife to hero worship.
So irrelevant was he that some Tory scumbags on a little internet backwater maliciously threatened his family by revealing personal details.
Tory scumbags that are still allowed to post on a little internet backwater.
Were you around then?
It wasn't Plato and I wonder if you know what led up to that event.
Not sure how his family was threatened either......
He was however an obnoxious little bully.
Ps - The person who posted his address shouldn't have done it - but tim was no innocent.
'@BBCPeterH: Ed Miliband has pulled out of planned BBC interviews tomorrow. No sign of problem at SE reception tonight #strange http://t.co/aFS4gWXLrg'
Gordon Brown is going to do the interviews for him.
'@BBCPeterH: Ed Miliband has pulled out of planned BBC interviews tomorrow. No sign of problem at SE reception tonight #strange http://t.co/aFS4gWXLrg'
Gordon Brown is going to do the interviews for him.
I'm a bit confused by the PB Indyref competition because there seem to be two of them. The other day I got an email with a list of entries, and this article has a link to a different list. On the emailed one, there was no entry for 44.70, and the nearest was Antifrank with 44.56.
The No result seems to have opened a kettle of worms of variations of "Devo-Max" or "EV4EL" which were not on the ballot paper and which we didn't want or ask for. If the existing arrangements for the Scottish Parliament have worked reasonably well for the last 15 years (notwithstanding the fact that the West Lothian Question is still unanswered), why not let it continue as it is? We don't want the WLQ to be made an even bigger problem than it already is. The obvious solution would be to allow the people of Scotland to carry on voting in elections, but only as long as they vote Conservative.
Whilst I had the exact YES % vote, I over estimated the turnout by 3.71% and others had a much closer combined score.
As I have previously posted, it has always seemed to me that as the union was mutually agreed between Scotland and rUK, the rUK should also have been voting whether or not to break the union.
Following the referendum we could do with some clear principles about which criteria to use for determining whether political decisions are best made at EU, UK, country, county or district level. We could certainly do without an additional regional level being introduced in England.
Thanks to Mike for founding and runnig the site; thanks to you all for the knowledgeable and thoughtful posts; and good luck with your political betting.
Thanks, was proud of our efforts in Glasgow (our constituency had 2nd highest Yes for the city), if a little disappointed with the turnout. Some strange turnout figures: I believe Hillhead, probably the most affluent area of Glasgow, was 60%.
Any ideas about why the, comparitively low, turnout figures? It really feels if people didn't turn out for this one they would not turn out for anything, so there's no way to engage them at all, democratically.
Eh Ehm Nope as the Scottish Daily Mail tomorrow leads on the fact a new poll shows Scots are now fed up with independence talk, and do not want another referendum for at least a generation
We'll see whether they still believe that in five years.
Sounds bad, but seems largely irrelevant to multiple officers being proven to have lied about events or facilitated the lie, and the officer at the centre of the current dispute, even if innocent of that and right that Mitchell is a dick, certainly knew there had been lying from fellow officers and yet it took a year long investigation to sort that out when they could have done so in 5 seconds.
With regards to illegal immigrants, can't we do what Australia does? Have a processing centre offshore so they don't disappear into society when human rights law means they have to be let out?
Asylum Seekers aren't "illegal" immigrants.
Well, given that any illegal immigrant can just make a claim for asylum and immediately gets asylum seeker status until the full appeals process has worked out, there's not much to differentiate them.
Actually no.
The full weight of international law differentiates an Asylum Seeker - a legal status with associated legal protections - from an "illegal immigrant".
Did you even pause to listen to my point? As soon as an illegal immigrant claims asylum (which anyone can do), they become an asylum seeker. Thus all your theoretical differentiation doesn't make much difference in practice.
Your point is invalid.
What a well-reasoned refutation.
It had nothing to refute. Your point was wholly wrong.
"Can we kill this "Brown saved the Union" meme? There are three factors that led to NO:-
1. Osborne's "no currency union".
2. Cameron's "we're great together" speech (which Brown copied from).
3. Businesses making clear the economic reality of independence.
Brown may have helped a bit.
I should add I suppose 4 - Salmond failing to come up with coherent responses to points 1 - 3."
I would say wrong on every count. I've just come back from Aberdeen and it looks very different from there.
I'd say the reason for NO winning was the old folk who came out in force. And I mean in wheelchairs on crutches and one at the polling station I manned on a stretcher. His son-in law explained that he'd insisted because he was terrified....
And that was the crux. They were terrified. They were scared of just about everything. The reason they came out in force was because they believed YES might win. All the talk was of a YES walkover.
The only thing I heard about Cameron from the NO camp was that it was a big mistake any of the Westminster leaders getting involved. The only NO politician who were considered to be a possible game changer was Brown who was credited with giving the NO side some heart.
[snip] It doesn't matter. Brown's own party is going to make sure he can't keep his promises because they will not budge on EV4EL and will try to kick everything into the long grass.
I don't doubt Brown's commitment but he is just mad to think that he can push this throughh by force of will.
It is also worth pointing out that no one even knows what is going to be offered as 'Devomax'. Certainly what the SNP and Yes are claiming it means (basically everything except Defence and Foreign affairs) is a very long way from what most people on here seem to think.
That was certainly the meaning of devomax being used in the early stages of the debate, so it's not a new thing at all. Any more and we Scots'd be independent.
That may well be what you thought was being discussed/offered but the problem with DevoMax, as opposed to outright independence, is that it needs the consent of the other party(ies) and nobody thought to ask them. So now we have another row.
Cameron really is a fecking useless politician without a strategic bone in his body. Do sod all, plan sod all until the problem hits you smack in the face and then wing it is a viable modus operandi for an undergraduate or even a junior manager who never wants to be promoted but at the top level it really isn't good enough.
I entirely agree about the need to ask everyone else. It was very much discussed at the time in pro-indy websites, etc. There was never any sane doubt of what you say, about devomax as opposed to proper indy.
My only uncertainty at the time of the Ednburgh Agreement was why Mr Cameron had refused it - because he thought he was doing Mr Salmond down, cue cheers from the media. Or because he was more willing to risk the collapse of the Union than get it through his backbenchers? Or both? We now seem to have a rather odd, and completely unexpected (by me) solution, backside about snout, but that last is not a new observation ...
Has Stuart 'Clueless wonders are in for a shock' Dickson been seen since Thursday?
Tipping point
I also loved The Union Divvie's single word - "boom" - as a poll came up, coupla days before the vote, showing another YES lead.
Turned out it was a typo, and NO was in the lead.
"Boom.
Oh."
Credit to Carnyx for coming on here and being a man, the rest of the Nats have turned out to be the most pathetic bunch of girl scouts, running away from the Unionist spider. All kilt and no sporran. A spineless mob of fanny-featured jessies. Hilarious.
An all-too-predictable handbrake turn from pitiful blubbering to triumphalist blustering; to modify Churchill's aphorism, in the face of defeat unnerved, in victory unbearable. Much better to have spent the last few days with friends and fellow campaigners rather than unpleasant bystanders.
If you pm me either details for a bank transfer or an e-mail address for a Paypal payment I'll forward £100.
If Tim's looking in, I owe you £100 on the Indy winner, and you owe me £50 for the Salmond v. Darling Ipsos approval ratings (on my reading), so net I owe you £50. You can let me know via Peter the Punter how you'd like paid.
Mark Senior, you owe me £25 for Yes being above 40%, let me know how you want to pay.
Antifrank, you owe charity £50 for Yes being above 40%. I think I nominated the Erskine veterans charity - http://www.erskine.org.uk
good to see you back divvie, it's been a bit quiet with malc on hols.
Have fun telling the English electorate that Scottish powers can indeed be done in time, but English powers will have to be kicked down the road.
The Scottish business can be resolved by secondary legislation, although Brown's scheme is to produce draft primary legislation by January 2015. The English problem may require primary legislation, major amendments to the Standing Orders of the House of Commons, or a combination of both. Given that nobody has really thought clearly about what they want, or the consequences of any proposals, it is far from clear that the English question can be resolved as quickly as the Scottish business. That is inequitable and undesirable, but such are the consequences of allowing the former Prime Minister to make constitutional policy on the hoof.
Comments
This is running sooooo badly {in my direct experience) with boring, non-political English voters (ie., my in-laws).
Good luck Ed....arguing vs EV4EL ..cut your own throat resisting this
"UKIP sets its sights on Holyrood"
Lol!
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/19/ukip-scotland-indyref-salmond-david-coburn_n_5848696.html
Can't disagree with the 1st part. Yes there is already some difference but EV4EL coupled with DevoMAX produces a dramatic unsustainable 2nd class.
The 2nd part needing more time to think up an answer is a disgrace for a professional MP given than the WLQ was asked in 1977.
In my view DevoMAX leads inexorably to EV4EL, a de facto English parliament and ultimately an indepedent Scotland and therefore doesn't have a democratic mandate.
Labour want to sort out the Cost of Living Crisis by freezing leccy bills and making the rich pay more tax.
Good luck Gidders...
Ralph Miliband is the midst of the blitz,
'The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world . . . you sometimes want them almost to lose (the war) to show them how things are.'
I think people will generally feel EV4EL is quite a good idea because it sounds reasonable, but they are mostly unlikely to think it's very salient to their lives. None of the 146 people we saw today - admittedly in a pro-Labour WWC ward - mentioned it. If the Tories want to pursue it I expect they can raise the salience level a bit, at the expense of not talking about something else. I wouldn't think it's a magic bullet myself, but nothing to stop them trying.
EV4EL. Easy concept. Obviously fair...Labour have decent arguments on various matters..on this however it is stupid to resist., Your English voters agree with it.
Conceed this one.. and find another front.
Certainly wasn't safe in your hands was it
But OK you want evidence based argument?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukipwatch/100257745/ukip-supporters-really-dislike-posh-dave-but-they-cant-stand-ed-miliband-either/
First, ever since Cameron became leader of the Conservatives in 2005, he has indeed been a major asset to Ukip; they always pick up support among voters who say they dislike Dave.
Second, this link between anti-Cameron sentiment and Ukip support was weakest right at the beginning of the Coalition, over 2010-2011, but since then this has become dramatically stronger as Ukip have surged in the polls. In the surveys that were conducted since the start of 2012, support for Ukip among those most hostile to Cameron is almost 20 percentage points higher than among those who say they like him. Cameron has always been an asset for Ukip, but since 2012 those who dislike Dave have been switching to Farage in droves. Dave really is a recruiting sergeant for the rebel movement, but that is also not the end of the story.
Happy Now? He's still just as toxic........
Probably - but it is you who is repeating the same comment in 'capitals' no less, not me.
As is making English voters pay additional taxes so that Fred Goodwin can enjoy free prescriptions if he so wishes whilst English voters have to pay. Yeah that'll help people's cost of living crisis south of the border and work on the doorstep to boot.
It's hardly 'fair' as David Herdson's article this morning highlighted. Scotland has control over devolved budgets and all aspects of policy development. English MP's do not. Whilst they may be proposing an English only caucus of parliamentarians. They are not proposing and English only government caucus of Ministers who will control the agendas and funding of devolved departments nor as far as I am aware an English only caucus in the House Of Lords.
So home nation representatives in government can still fully control the funding of devolved English Areas and in the House Of Lords reject any amendments made by the English caucus in the HoC. So basically the only power English MP's have got is the ability to block government legislation much as the House Of Representatives in the US can block the Presidential budget. Something that has done them no good at all in the eyes of the voters.
'@BBCPeterH: Ed Miliband has pulled out of planned BBC interviews tomorrow. No sign of problem at SE reception tonight #strange http://t.co/aFS4gWXLrg'
How did they manage to control the crowd at the SE reception?
Although like tim you do seem to have an unhealthy fixation on Plato,
It wasn't Plato and I wonder if you know what led up to that event.
Not sure how his family was threatened either......
He was however an obnoxious little bully.
Ps - The person who posted his address shouldn't have done it - but tim was no innocent.
Oh, you meant something else.
'@BBCPeterH: Ed Miliband has pulled out of planned BBC interviews tomorrow. No sign of problem at SE reception tonight #strange http://t.co/aFS4gWXLrg'
Gordon Brown is going to do the interviews for him.
I'm a bit confused by the PB Indyref competition because there seem to be two of them. The other day I got an email with a list of entries, and this article has a link to a different list. On the emailed one, there was no entry for 44.70, and the nearest was Antifrank with 44.56.
Whilst I had the exact YES % vote, I over estimated the turnout by 3.71% and others had a much closer combined score.
As I have previously posted, it has always seemed to me that as the union was mutually agreed between Scotland and rUK, the rUK should also have been voting whether or not to break the union.
Following the referendum we could do with some clear principles about which criteria to use for determining whether political decisions are best made at EU, UK, country, county or district level. We could certainly do without an additional regional level being introduced in England.
Thanks to Mike for founding and runnig the site; thanks to you all for the knowledgeable and thoughtful posts; and good luck with your political betting.
"Can we kill this "Brown saved the Union" meme? There are three factors that led to NO:-
1. Osborne's "no currency union".
2. Cameron's "we're great together" speech (which Brown copied from).
3. Businesses making clear the economic reality of independence.
Brown may have helped a bit.
I should add I suppose 4 - Salmond failing to come up with coherent responses to points 1 - 3."
I would say wrong on every count. I've just come back from Aberdeen and it looks very different from there.
I'd say the reason for NO winning was the old folk who came out in force. And I mean in wheelchairs on crutches and one at the polling station I manned on a stretcher. His son-in law explained that he'd insisted because he was terrified....
And that was the crux. They were terrified. They were scared of just about everything. The reason they came out in force was because they believed YES might win. All the talk was of a YES walkover.
The only thing I heard about Cameron from the NO camp was that it was a big mistake any of the Westminster leaders getting involved. The only NO politician who were considered to be a possible game changer was Brown who was credited with giving the NO side some heart.
My only uncertainty at the time of the Ednburgh Agreement was why Mr Cameron had refused it - because he thought he was doing Mr Salmond down, cue cheers from the media. Or because he was more willing to risk the collapse of the Union than get it through his backbenchers? Or both? We now seem to have a rather odd, and completely unexpected (by me) solution, backside about snout, but that last is not a new observation ...