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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson says the Greens ought to be doing better

SystemSystem Posts: 12,179
edited May 2013 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Henry G Manson says the Greens ought to be doing better

The election of Caroline Lucas in 2010 was in many ways quite extraordinary. In winning a three-way marginal seat she succeeded where UKIP have so far failed. Lucas is intelligent, thoughtful and charismatic. Yet the Greens simply have not capitalised.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    No one can even be bothered to post.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    Having MPs is overrated, who is more influential right now, Farage or Lucas?
  • Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    They're keeping quiet as they don't want to split votes from Labour!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Didnt we do this thread already this week?

    To repeat myself - 6% in the last MORI poll is about as good as I can remember in my time as a member, sustainable net gains in the recent locals (including breakthroughs on big authorities like Kent, Essex and Surrey CCs) and the likelihood / possibility of gains in next years locals (particularly London) / Euros all mean that Green party supporters should be relatively happy.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    I don't get the feeling that the reduction in net migration (gross immigration still tops 500k) is getting any traction out there.

    As much as the rightwing press tries to push in vain these "reductions" as some sort of barnstorming Tory success, it just isn't taken up in the polling.

    Quite curious. It really is the economy, stupid.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    I dunno, the greens are getting some coverage now with their normally-invisible leader claiming the Woolwich attack was caused by the government.

    It's not good coverage, mind you.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    dodrade said:

    Having MPs is overrated, who is more influential right now, Farage or Lucas?

    Well, we havent had a Euro referendum but we do have all that climate change stuff that so exercises lots of people on this site.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Neil said:

    Didnt we do this thread already this week?

    To repeat myself - 6% in the last MORI poll is about as good as I can remember in my time as a member, sustainable net gains in the recent locals (including breakthroughs on big authorities like Kent, Essex and Surrey CCs) and the likelihood / possibility of gains in next years locals (particularly London) / Euros all mean that Green party supporters should be relatively happy.

    Could be good timing for the Euros, the media will want to do a "UKIP implodes" sooner or later, then they'll need a new shiny thing to chase.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited May 2013


    Could be good timing for the Euros, the media will want to do a "UKIP implodes" sooner or later, then they'll need a new shiny thing to chase.

    I expect UKIP to do even better in 2014 - they will have to have coverage commensurate with their performance in 2009 and should do very well as a result.

    Besides I genuinely think there's a difference between sustainable progress and surges related to protest votes / flavour of the month. I dont see any particular value in the Greens just repeating 1989 next year. I think progress needs to be sustainable to make the kind of difference they want.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited May 2013
    Forgive me for being cynical, but I think it's mainly because people don't really want to be hypocritical. Or maybe they find the concept "green" a bit trying, like listening to a well meaning religious proselytizer on one's doorstep. They may think that being green requires application, like cutting down on car usage and 'plane travel and restructuring one's lifestyle around protecting the environment.
    Writing this I am trying to be civil. You should hear me put the case over a few drinks. Or even sober offline.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines .

    Fancy topping up on your Lucas bet? ;)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    In the great scheme of things the Greens do not feel very relevant these days. They need a selling point. All they seem to offer is sackcloth and ashes.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Toms said:

    Or even sober offline.

    You're meant to be *more* strident and *less* polite online than in real life! ;)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    tim said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .

    You think the Kitcat faction may Breakaway?

    You'd think they'd come up with a way to fudge the issue. I suppose the council leader must be too much of a flake.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    Neil said:

    dodrade said:

    Having MPs is overrated, who is more influential right now, Farage or Lucas?

    Well, we havent had a Euro referendum but we do have all that climate change stuff that so exercises lots of people on this site.
    Except the Greens' policy advisers are stupid and inconsistent. For years they have been wittering on about public transport, and when a high-speed link is proposed, they are automatically against it.

    The one chance they have to have a system that can compete with air and be future proof, and they are against it.

    "The Green Party remains in favour of high speed rail in principle, but any project would need to meet strict criteria."

    Criteria that would never be met on any project.

    They are jokes. Also witness opposition to the Severn Barrage, and their keenness for on-land wind power that devastates upland wilderness. Because those uplands are a long way from the urban metropolises that their supporters live in.

    Crazy.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @toms
    Being green over cutting down car use with use of Parking Zones is one thing until it starts damaging SMEs, lowering the ability of part time workers to travel to work.

    Green votes were lower in less affluent suburbs of Bristol.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Kitcat Club?

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,756
    tim said:

    It's easy to explain, living standards are falling so people drift from the green agenda.

    As for the comparison with UKIP, well if the Greens had got Agents Cameron,Osborne and Crosby working for them inside the govt as UKIP have they might be getting somewhere.
    But Cameron and co have driven pensioners to UKIP and women to Labour, so there's not a lot of space.

    It's not just about the Green agenda though, as Henry rightly points out, any more than UKIP is 'just' about the EU. There is space for an out-and-out populist left wing party to promote policies of spend more / tax more / regulate more / make more things illegal (or compulsary).

    At present, as neil notes, the Greens are doing ok but really, that's default none-of-the-aboveism (like 1989 but less so, as there are more alternatives now). An effective leader and better PR could probably push them to 10% in the polls. They might score that highly in the Euroelections but it'll be a false dawn.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    tim said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .

    You think the Kitcat faction may Breakaway?

    You'd think they'd come up with a way to fudge the issue. I suppose the council leader must be too much of a flake.
    Wispa it loudly though, KitKat still getting Chunky support. It's be a Marathon though, so no Snickers from the peanut gallery.

    (can we stop now?)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Except the Greens' policy advisers are stupid

    Ah, yes, they dont always agree with your position. A terminal condition I'm afraid.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    but really, that's default none-of-the-aboveism (like 1989 but less so, as there are more alternatives now)

    That was almost the opposite of my point! In 1989 they polled huge numbers and elected nobody. This time the poll ratings are much lower but they are making targeted progress in many areas. That's as a result of making a positive case in select areas rather than relying on being the repository for protest votes everywhere.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Anorak said:

    I dunno, the greens are getting some coverage now with their normally-invisible leader claiming the Woolwich attack was caused by the government.

    It's not good coverage, mind you.

    If we did as she suggested (which I think we should, not that it matters) what justification would future Muslim terroists have for attacking Londoners?

    I started writing this before I remembered the paedophiles. I suppose it would just be because we are trash?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    tim said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .

    You think the Kitcat faction may Breakaway?

    There are likely to be disciplinary moves against some councillors in both factions but I have no idea where it will all lead . Hanover/Elm Grove is one of their safest wards with a strong student and University academic staff amongst the electorate . It was the centre of SDP support in Brighton in the 1980's drifted back to Labour in the 1990's before moving to the Greens . It qill be interesting how the byelection develops , maybe there will be 2 " Green " candidates .

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Green Party and its agenda might not resonate with people who are struggling to pay for gas and electricity bills.
    If you are wealthy, you can reduce your carbon footprint by getting taxpayers to subsidise solar and wind installations. If you are poor, you reduce it by sitting in a cold, dark room.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    maybe there will be 2 " Green " candidates .

    You wish! ;)
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    I dunno, the greens are getting some coverage now with their normally-invisible leader claiming the Woolwich attack was caused by the government.

    It's not good coverage, mind you.

    If we did as she suggested (which I think we should, not that it matters) what justification would future Muslim terroists have for attacking Londoners?

    I started writing this before I remembered the paedophiles. I suppose it would just be because we are trash?
    The reason to attack the UK would be much diminished - can't argue with that. That's a long way from it being the right thing to do, however.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    tim said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines . There is now open warfare between 2 groups of Green councillors 12 supporting the leader of the council Jason Kitcat and 10 opposing with Alex Phillips ludicrously approaching the Labour and Conservative group leaders to try and enlist support to replace Kitcat as leader of the council with a different Green councillor .
    I hear now that Matt Follett Green councillor for Hanover and Elm Grove has resigned triggering a byelection which will no doubt be bitterly fought with lots of ( green ) blood spilled .

    You think the Kitcat faction may Breakaway?

    You'd think they'd come up with a way to fudge the issue. I suppose the council leader must be too much of a flake.
    Green versions of chocolate bars are usually minging (Aero & Club for instance) so this Kitcat cant be all that

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    The Green Party and its agenda might not resonate with people who are struggling to pay for gas and electricity bills.

    It should though - generally the tax and welfare policies are to the left / more progressive and redistributive than any other mainstream party.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2013
    Anorak said:

    isam said:

    Anorak said:

    I dunno, the greens are getting some coverage now with their normally-invisible leader claiming the Woolwich attack was caused by the government.

    It's not good coverage, mind you.

    If we did as she suggested (which I think we should, not that it matters) what justification would future Muslim terroists have for attacking Londoners?

    I started writing this before I remembered the paedophiles. I suppose it would just be because we are trash?
    The reason to attack the UK would be much diminished - can't argue with that. That's a long way from it being the right thing to do, however.
    Oh forgive me, I wasnt saying we should get out because of these attacks, I personally dont think we should be there anyway.

    My fear is we stay in stubbornly to show how we cant be forced out by the attacks.. maybe not giving our political class enough credit, but it does seem people with political agendas find it hard to admit it when they are wrong.

  • Because she is a dreadful harpie watermelon spouting crap and meanwhile the winter has lasted for about 8 months now. The green religion's apostates number in the gazillions because they horribly, horribly overstated their case. 20 years ago we were told to reverse civilisation or snow would would be a thing of the past - they shot their bolt.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Patrick said:

    Because she is a dreadful harpie watermelon spouting crap and meanwhile the winter has lasted for about 8 months now. The green religion's apostates number in the gazillions because they horribly, horribly overstated their case. 20 years ago we were told to reverse civilisation or snow would would be a thing of the past - they shot their bolt.

    Can I put you down as undecided?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I think the Greens have a chance of winning Norwich South in 2015, ie. there could be a direct switch from LD to Green, bypassing Labour to a large extent:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/results/constituency/d38.stm
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    I think the Greens have a chance of winning Norwich South in 2015

    No, there's no real chance of that happening.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Neil said:

    Patrick said:

    Because she is a dreadful harpie watermelon spouting crap and meanwhile the winter has lasted for about 8 months now. The green religion's apostates number in the gazillions because they horribly, horribly overstated their case. 20 years ago we were told to reverse civilisation or snow would would be a thing of the past - they shot their bolt.

    Can I put you down as undecided?

    PPB for the Greens?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onM8qVZT0bk
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    @Patrick

    Don't you work for an oil company :incredibly non-Bercowesse innocent look
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    edited May 2013
    Yup, what was it someone once said? "We never deal with terrorists, Mr Adams!"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,888
    Neil said:


    Except the Greens' policy advisers are stupid

    Ah, yes, they dont always agree with your position. A terminal condition I'm afraid.
    Well, answer my comments below then. How do you square their position on high-speed rail (for) until one is proposed (against)? Can you tell me how a high speed rail system can be created in the UK that meets these 'criteria' they mention? Indeed, where are these criteria?

    How about their opposition to the Severn Barrage?

    How about the widespread destruction of vast areas of upland wilderness areas such as the Monadhliath Mountains for wind power?

    Now they are getting sniffs of power, they need to know that compromises need to be made if there is going to be any progress.

    (I actually voted green at the local elections, so I'm hardly totally opposed to them at a local level. Then again, I found the local candidates of the main parties deeply uninspiring on a number of levels. Especially the UKIP (ex-Tory) candidate).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,225
    As UK political support fractures into four or five different ways, it is hard to explain why the Green Party aren’t doing better. There should be some serious soul-searching from the party nationally. But I don’t detect any.

    My feeling is the Greens are more interested in ideological purity than actually appealing to a wider audience. In one sense it's admirable that they want to stick to their guns (metaphorically - I assume they are pretty anti-war officially) and not compromise their message in order to chase some mythical centre ground, instead hoping to convince people to their point of view.

    On the other hand there might be an arrogant dismissal of the masses, disdaining chasing their support, of the fools who aren't all tree hugging lefty hippies (I kid, Neil). They don't want to be a large party, they aren't interested in governing even as an abstract concept like UKIP. Greens think they are better than others even more than is normal for political parties (second only to smug political wonks like myself of course)

    Lucas may not have effectively built upon her victory, but the new leader is pretty crap in comparison. It's not just her grating voice, which cannot be helped, but she was easily the worst panellist in a recent QT I'd seen, and as I hadn't known several of the others, it wasn't preformed bias in a personal sense at play on my part. Really, genuinely bad, not just mundane, as a performer at least, and a leader does need those skills (see Farage, who is criticised a lot for lack of critical leadership skills in an organisational sense, but he is still a plus for his party because he is very good at other roles)

    And I will say that while I do not agree with climate change deniers, who seem to think there has been a near universal conspiracy for decades for what purpose I cannot imagine, they are right that the extreme dangers were overstated for too long, meaning that since armageddon has not occurred, it is far easier to dismiss warnings now. I was at school 10 years ago and if the rainforest was being cut back as I was taught, it would be gone by now, to take one extreme example.

    but it does seem people with political agendas find it hard to admit it when they are wrong.
    Not just those with political agendas.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    The Green Party and its agenda might not resonate with people who are struggling to pay for gas and electricity bills.
    If you are wealthy, you can reduce your carbon footprint by getting taxpayers to subsidise solar and wind installations. If you are poor, you reduce it by sitting in a cold, dark room.

    This.

    Essentially the Green agenda can only "succeed" if heat and power are made so expensive that people have to do without them.

    In the main, those people will be poor and old, meaning they'll die.

    But it's fine because rich people in 100 years' time will experience climate change 15 seconds later.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    those people will be poor and old, meaning they'll die

    Ah, you've uncovered the secret plan.
  • Yes - the red and yellow one. But my personal views are my own and not a corporate infusion (I'm way more Thatcherite and climate sceptical than 90% of my colleagues).
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    Neil said:

    The Green Party and its agenda might not resonate with people who are struggling to pay for gas and electricity bills.

    It should though - generally the tax and welfare policies are to the left / more progressive and redistributive than any other mainstream party.
    In penalising the elderly poor, who need more heat than others but will be less able to afford it, the Greens are thoroughly regressive and, IMHO, profoundly wicked.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment on the events of Wednesday afternoon In Woolwich - but I won't directly.

    Yesterday morning, I was enjoying breakfast at my favourite cafe and reading the Racing Post (as I'm wont to) when two young men walked in and ordered a coffee each. The owner of the aforementioned cafe leaves a copy of the Currant Bun around for the customers and the two looked at it and started discussing the events at Woolwich. The argument flowed back and forth - one possibly more extreme than the other and while most of the argument relied on factual accuracies, there were one or two things said about the number of muslims in Britain for example which revealed an interesting ignorance among the public.

    Anyway, they discussed, had their coffee and left. Throughout their discussion, I heard not a word of vitriol or hatred, strong beliefs, yes, passionately-held certainly, but free of unthinking prejudice.

    I was left to reflect that as long as people of good conscience are able to discuss, argue and debate without hatred, paranoia or prejudice to contaminate the discourse the extremists on all sides will inevitably fail. The extremists wish to provoke, to instill fear and doubt and to counteract reason, to create suspicion of other members of our society and to drive us apart from each other.

    I'm convinced they will not succeed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2013
    If they did start to do better, from whom would they take votes? If it was Labour then it would increase the possibilty of no party achieving 30% at the next election...

    Any prices available on that? Max bet £5 if anyones brave enough to offer a price

    (tim, Im not interested at EVS)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    isam said:

    If it was Labour then it would increase the possibilty of no party achiieving 30% at the next election?

    If the Green party doubled its 2010 result it would take another 0.9% of the vote from, mainly, Labour and the Lib Dems. That's unlikely to be as much of a threat to them as UKIP is to the Tories.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment on the events of Wednesday afternoon In Woolwich - but I won't directly.

    Yesterday morning, I was enjoying breakfast at my favourite cafe and reading the Racing Post (as I'm wont to) when two young men walked in and ordered a coffee each. The owner of the aforementioned cafe leaves a copy of the Currant Bun around for the customers and the two looked at it and started discussing the events at Woolwich. The argument flowed back and forth - one possibly more extreme than the other and while most of the argument relied on factual accuracies, there were one or two things said about the number of muslims in Britain for example which revealed an interesting ignorance among the public.

    Anyway, they discussed, had their coffee and left. Throughout their discussion, I heard not a word of vitriol or hatred, strong beliefs, yes, passionately-held certainly, but free of unthinking prejudice.

    I was left to reflect that as long as people of good conscience are able to discuss, argue and debate without hatred, paranoia or prejudice to contaminate the discourse the extremists on all sides will inevitably fail. The extremists wish to provoke, to instill fear and doubt and to counteract reason, to create suspicion of other members of our society and to drive us apart from each other.

    I'm convinced they will not succeed.

    Excellent post.

    I agree. The vast majority of people are, when it comes down to it, decent, law abiding and fair. They just want to get on with their lives and do the best by the people they care for. We must never lose sight of that.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    That's a really positive post, Stodge. Quite cheered me up on a miserable "summer" afternoon with no cricket.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Patrick said:

    Yes - the red and yellow one. But my personal views are my own and not a corporate infusion (I'm way more Thatcherite and climate sceptical than 90% of my colleagues).

    And, from memory, you live in my patch (so I'd better be extra deferential). If true, the place is infested with you guys (all of whom are splendid I might add).

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    My first chance to comment on the events of Wednesday afternoon In Woolwich - but I won't directly.

    Yesterday morning, I was enjoying breakfast at my favourite cafe and reading the Racing Post (as I'm wont to) when two young men walked in and ordered a coffee each. The owner of the aforementioned cafe leaves a copy of the Currant Bun around for the customers and the two looked at it and started discussing the events at Woolwich. The argument flowed back and forth - one possibly more extreme than the other and while most of the argument relied on factual accuracies, there were one or two things said about the number of muslims in Britain for example which revealed an interesting ignorance among the public.

    Anyway, they discussed, had their coffee and left. Throughout their discussion, I heard not a word of vitriol or hatred, strong beliefs, yes, passionately-held certainly, but free of unthinking prejudice.

    I was left to reflect that as long as people of good conscience are able to discuss, argue and debate without hatred, paranoia or prejudice to contaminate the discourse the extremists on all sides will inevitably fail. The extremists wish to provoke, to instill fear and doubt and to counteract reason, to create suspicion of other members of our society and to drive us apart from each other.

    I'm convinced they will not succeed.

    True enough, but not everyone who warns of trouble is hoping for it

  • JohnWheatleyJohnWheatley Posts: 141
    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @david_herdson

    ' There is space for an out-and-out populist left wing party to promote policies of spend more / tax more / regulate more / make more things illegal (or compulsary).'

    Be patient,just wait for Ed's policies.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,661

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    My guess is that over time you'll find the bacon roll does not taste as good as it once did.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Stop eating bacon rolls full stop. Your health will improve, youll lose weight and you can avoid the dilemma.

    If you eat bacon rolls from elsewhere you will probably always be comparing them unfavourably with the BNP ones

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter

    Surely this was obvious from the "white rolls only" policy?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,541
    Hmm, His link to German polling is broken, which may be why the information (polling between 3 and 4%, 5% a possibility) is a bit optimistic. The last four Pirate polls were 2, 2.5 and 3.

    On topic, YouGov usually sows the Greens taking votes from 2010 LibDems, which makes sense - people who felt Labour wasn't left-wing enough but eeek, the LibDems have gone to bed with Dracula. They have the same problem that UKIP used to have, though - people think they're a one-issue party. The UKIP advance has come since people decided they're a "down with all forms of current nonsense" party, which has a much broader appeal.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Is he routinely using the business to push his BNP thing or did he already happen to be friendly with the other customer, and they happened to discover a shared enthusiasm for anti-semitic conspiracy theories while they were chatting?

    If the former I'd say avoid. If it's the latter he has the right to his ignorant scumbag political views, and bacon quality should be the deciding factor.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    John, my friend, it's entirely your decision. I don't ask the political motivations of the owner of every shop I walk into (or indeed of the customers and staff). You simply have to accept that not everyone will think the way you do - I come on here sometimes and as a Lib Dem supporter, I know what it's like to be the representative of a beleguered minority, believe me !

    If your antipathy toward the BNP and all it stands for is that strong, then find your butty elsewhere but you won't stop him or change his ideas and it's not for you to try.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2013

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Just thought, this is an inverse of the Little Britain sketch where David Walliams dressed as an Old Conservative type lady, throws up when she finds out that the food was made by immigrants/homeless people!

    Southam Observers advice will only really work if you are the type of person who can pretend things that are actually happening (the roll tasting good) arent really because of your political persuasion

  • Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621
    Presumably the baon butties aren't for Muslims or Jews. What if a non-pork eater asked for a bacon butty? Should he refuse to serve?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    Hmm, His link to German polling is broken, which may be why the information (polling between 3 and 4%, 5% a possibility) is a bit optimistic. The last four Pirate polls were 2, 2.5 and 3.

    On topic, YouGov usually sows the Greens taking votes from 2010 LibDems, which makes sense - people who felt Labour wasn't left-wing enough but eeek, the LibDems have gone to bed with Dracula. They have the same problem that UKIP used to have, though - people think they're a one-issue party. The UKIP advance has come since people decided they're a "down with all forms of current nonsense" party, which has a much broader appeal.
    Looks like the link was supposed to go here:
    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
    ...which TBF does have a week-old 4, but yeah, he's being a bit - ahem - optimistic to overlook the 2 and the 2.5...

    No idea which of those polls are credible, or whether you'd expect a squeeze in the general election polling that they won't suffer in the Euros.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Like alcohol minimum pricing and "clean wifi" on our high streets?
    john_zims said:

    @david_herdson

    ' There is space for an out-and-out populist left wing party to promote policies of spend more / tax more / regulate more / make more things illegal (or compulsary).'

    Be patient,just wait for Ed's policies.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2013
    isam said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Stop eating bacon rolls full stop. Your health will improve, youll lose weight and you can avoid the dilemma.

    If you eat bacon rolls from elsewhere you will probably always be comparing them unfavourably with the BNP ones

    I can't believe bacon can add to your weight that much. It's only like 2mm thick. You'd need to have about six rashers to equal a normal piece of meat.

    Of course, it's terrible for heart health and cancer, but that's another matter.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2013
    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Stop eating bacon rolls full stop. Your health will improve, youll lose weight and you can avoid the dilemma.

    If you eat bacon rolls from elsewhere you will probably always be comparing them unfavourably with the BNP ones

    I can't believe bacon can add to your weight that much. It's only like 2mm thick. You'd need to have about six rashers to equal a normal piece of meat.

    Of course, it's terrible for heart health and cancer, but that's another matter.

    The roll is the weight gainer, the bacon the health risk

    Plus he would be inadvertently funding the BNP
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The BBC has scrapped a £98m digital production system, which its director general said had "wasted a huge amount of licence fee payers' money".

    The Digital Media Initiative was set up in 2008 but was halted last autumn having never become fully operational.

    "I have serious concerns about how we managed this project," BBC director general Tony Hall said.

    An independent review has been launched "to find out what went wrong and what lessons can be learned", he said."
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22651126
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    But it tastes good!
    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Stop eating bacon rolls full stop. Your health will improve, youll lose weight and you can avoid the dilemma.

    If you eat bacon rolls from elsewhere you will probably always be comparing them unfavourably with the BNP ones

    I can't believe bacon can add to your weight that much. It's only like 2mm thick. You'd need to have about six rashers to equal a normal piece of meat.

    Of course, it's terrible for heart health and cancer, but that's another matter.

    The roll is the weight gainer, the bacon the health risk
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2013
    Anorak said:

    I dunno, the greens are getting some coverage now with their normally-invisible leader claiming the Woolwich attack was caused by the government.

    It's not good coverage, mind you.

    Why on Earth would an Australian blaming the British for a terrorist attack on a British soldier go down badly with British voters?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,541
    tim said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?


    Paint the caravan with traditional Gypsy caravan art overnight.

    http://gypsywaggons.co.uk/ukvardos/wooden/wd136b.jpg



    Labour Weekly (RIP) once had a fun "test your Labour correctness" test, one of which was the discovery that your Coop milkman votes National Front (sketch of him with "Keep Milk white" poster). Do you switch to United Dairies or are you loyal to the Coop?

    But like Edmund I think the question is whether he's using his business to push his views or merely happened to chat to that one customer who he knew. In the former case, I'd switch, politely telling him why. In the latter case, it's his own business how he votes, I guess. The daring expedient is to tell him you're thinking of switching because you've heard him express extreme views, and see what he does. If he responds reasonably, fine. Otherwise, duck.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    edited May 2013
    I've seriously considered voting Greens but I understand that they flatly oppose the use of animals in medicine testing, and as an lifelone asthmatic whose quality of life, and indeed life itself would be severely threatened without medicines which have been made this way, I do not feel I can honestly vote for them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313
    The Greens grew as a left-wing alternative to Blair and reached their peak in 2010 as New Labour let out its death throes, but now Ed Miliband has moved Labour left so there is less room for a left-wing alternative to Labour. In any case, now that Brighton Councils ruling Green Party has agreed cuts with the Tories, albeit opposed by Lucas, many left-wingers no longer see the Greens as outside the establishment and if they are looking for a left-wing alternative to Labour will look at TUSC or Respect. In any case as it is now the Tories who have moved to the centre it is now the right where a vacancy has emerged, hence the rise of UKIP!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    But it tastes good!

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    isam said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?

    Stop eating bacon rolls full stop. Your health will improve, youll lose weight and you can avoid the dilemma.

    If you eat bacon rolls from elsewhere you will probably always be comparing them unfavourably with the BNP ones

    I can't believe bacon can add to your weight that much. It's only like 2mm thick. You'd need to have about six rashers to equal a normal piece of meat.

    Of course, it's terrible for heart health and cancer, but that's another matter.

    The roll is the weight gainer, the bacon the health risk
    "Sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but Id never know cos I wouldnt eat the filthy mutha f*cker"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0zJSgHDnpw

  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013

    tim said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?


    Paint the caravan with traditional Gypsy caravan art overnight.

    http://gypsywaggons.co.uk/ukvardos/wooden/wd136b.jpg



    Labour Weekly (RIP) once had a fun "test your Labour correctness" test, one of which was the discovery that your Coop milkman votes National Front (sketch of him with "Keep Milk white" poster). Do you switch to United Dairies or are you loyal to the Coop?

    But like Edmund I think the question is whether he's using his business to push his views or merely happened to chat to that one customer who he knew. In the former case, I'd switch, politely telling him why. In the latter case, it's his own business how he votes, I guess. The daring expedient is to tell him you're thinking of switching because you've heard him express extreme views, and see what he does. If he responds reasonably, fine. Otherwise, duck.


    Yeah upset him, make him think you love the people he hates, then let him make your breakfast for you

    mmmm tasty!

    Jesus Nick, next you'll be telling us to take the mick out of Indian waiters while ordering a curry!

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    tim said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?


    Paint the caravan with traditional Gypsy caravan art overnight.

    http://gypsywaggons.co.uk/ukvardos/wooden/wd136b.jpg



    Labour Weekly (RIP) once had a fun "test your Labour correctness" test, one of which was the discovery that your Coop milkman votes National Front (sketch of him with "Keep Milk white" poster). Do you switch to United Dairies or are you loyal to the Coop?

    But like Edmund I think the question is whether he's using his business to push his views or merely happened to chat to that one customer who he knew. In the former case, I'd switch, politely telling him why. In the latter case, it's his own business how he votes, I guess. The daring expedient is to tell him you're thinking of switching because you've heard him express extreme views, and see what he does. If he responds reasonably, fine. Otherwise, duck.


    From the account, the guy didn't express extreme views, he just visited the BNP website, so its somewhat guilt by association here.

    If I find out that my local shop owner visits the website of the MCB, a homophobic organisation, is that grounds to boycott his business?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Argus on Follett. Wouldn't be too sure re Hanover/Elm Grove being in the bag (I live in that area).

    http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/10443112.Green_city_councillor_resigns_seat/?ref=twt&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • NextNext Posts: 826



    But like Edmund I think the question is whether he's using his business to push his views or merely happened to chat to that one customer who he knew. In the former case, I'd switch, politely telling him why. In the latter case, it's his own business how he votes, I guess. The daring expedient is to tell him you're thinking of switching because you've heard him express extreme views, and see what he does. If he responds reasonably, fine. Otherwise, duck.

    Careful: Never annoy someone who prepares your food.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I've seriously considered voting Greens but I understand that they flatly oppose the use of animals in medicine testing, and as an lifelone asthmatic whose quality of life, and indeed life itself would be severely threatened without medicines which have been made this way, I do not feel I can honestly vote for them.

    I have sat in an audience where Caroline Lucas argued that the UK should no longer seek economic growth as people were wealthy enough already, and we just needed to redistribute it from the middle class to the poor. It's a mad policy and any party running against them should put "the Greens want to end UK economic growth" on their leaflets.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    Socrates said:

    I've seriously considered voting Greens but I understand that they flatly oppose the use of animals in medicine testing, and as an lifelone asthmatic whose quality of life, and indeed life itself would be severely threatened without medicines which have been made this way, I do not feel I can honestly vote for them.

    I have sat in an audience where Caroline Lucas argued that the UK should no longer seek economic growth as people were wealthy enough already, and we just needed to redistribute it from the middle class to the poor. It's a mad policy and any party running against them should put "the Greens want to end UK economic growth" on their leaflets.
    If the Greens got anywhere near power with ideas like that, then emigration and not immigration would be the problem for the country.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2013
  • JohnWheatleyJohnWheatley Posts: 141
    He was pushing his views indirectly, so while the (fresh) bacon was prepared I took a ostentatious stroll round the hedge at the back to have a pee that was I felt of sufficient duration for the bacon to be ready when I got back. This did mean I missed the yummy smell.

    Otherwise I'd have been apoplectic.....

    Normally I don't give a tinker's cuss what people think but the BNP do test this somewhat





  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?


    Paint the caravan with traditional Gypsy caravan art overnight.

    http://gypsywaggons.co.uk/ukvardos/wooden/wd136b.jpg


    That is just like the caravan I slept in in The Nabavi's consituency.

    It didn't serve bacon sarnies though.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines .

    They are all on Lucasade !


    Sorry ! Friday evening.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited May 2013
    surbiton said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines .

    They are all on Lucasade !


    Sorry ! Friday evening.

    Lucasade: tastes disgusting, makes you fell better temporarily, then you realise how much you miss coke despite its ill-effects!!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,525
    Anorak said:

    surbiton said:

    The Greens in Brighton/Hove are certainly not having problems in getting press headlines .

    They are all on Lucasade !


    Sorry ! Friday evening.

    Lucasade: tastes disgusting, makes you fell better temporarily, then you realise how much you miss coke despite its ill-effects!!
    Used to drink it as a child. Only fizzy drink available. Now it's far too sweet, although have tried it with gin, which makes it better, although not a lot.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    AfD have been polling as high as 3.5% in recent Bundestag polls:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,007
    edited May 2013

    tim said:

    Dear Stodge (and other pb'ers)

    I am on the horns of a dilemma. I had a similar experience to Stodge below - but not quite the same outcome!

    The best roadside bacon butty caravan in our area has always had a huge England flag. But as I approached on the day after the Woolwich events, I heard him talking to another customer about it, citing in particular a petition on the BNP website which had 50k signatures. He repeated this more than once. It is reasonable therefore to assume he is a BNP supporter - his physical build (large and round) and substantial builder's bottom would reinforce this.

    The dilemma is obvious - do I sacrifice the best bacon butty, always cooked from fresh on good quality bread rolls, from a caravan with a 5 star cleanliness rating because he is obviously BNP or do I on principle avoid the place?


    Paint the caravan with traditional Gypsy caravan art overnight.

    http://gypsywaggons.co.uk/ukvardos/wooden/wd136b.jpg



    Labour Weekly (RIP) once had a fun "test your Labour correctness" test, one of which was the discovery that your Coop milkman votes National Front (sketch of him with "Keep Milk white" poster). Do you switch to United Dairies or are you loyal to the Coop?

    But like Edmund I think the question is whether he's using his business to push his views or merely happened to chat to that one customer who he knew. In the former case, I'd switch, politely telling him why. In the latter case, it's his own business how he votes, I guess. The daring expedient is to tell him you're thinking of switching because you've heard him express extreme views, and see what he does. If he responds reasonably, fine. Otherwise, duck.


    PPC in proving Labour has no connection to or concept of how real world works shock.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 39m

    Top Guardian journo tells me Woolwich attack no worse than regular knife attacks on Muslims which are rarely reported. Remarkable viewpoint
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,950
    The Greens are so 1989! LOL!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    isam said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 39m

    Top Guardian journo tells me Woolwich attack no worse than regular knife attacks on Muslims which are rarely reported. Remarkable viewpoint

    If there are such knife attacks on Muslims presumably the Guardian is reporting them? And if not why not?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2013
    Rumours of a crash involving cop killer prisoner on the M6

    West Country Travel ‏@wctrav 23m

    Road: Coming into us a prison van believed to be carrying police killer Dale Cregan from court has been involved in a collision on the #M6...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,313
    Alistair Campbell tweets
    nteresting too German president +Chancellor Merkel went to 150th anniversary Social Democrats despite different party. Mature politics
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Video of the police shooting the Woolwich suspects:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU6SYzDVi98
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,234
    The video reassures me in the police's methods.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,054
    The Labour Party in Colne Valley have a shortlist of 5 in their AWS selection. They are Anita Cherryhome ( Barnsley Cllr), Binnie Joshi Barr ( runs a fish bar in the constituency), Sarah Cox ( IBM manager), Roxanne Ellis ( Gedling Cllr), and Louise Reecejones ( Labout activist in Wirral). My money is on the South Yorkshire runner - Labour have form on this.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Thank god the green fad is dying. Back door socialism. Good riddance.
  • david_kendrick1david_kendrick1 Posts: 325
    edited May 2013
    The casual voters who voted green in the Euro election in the late 80s have had most of their green enthusiasms met by the other parties in subsequent elections. The market for 'militant green' views is probably accurately reflected by their current polling.

    During boom times, a certain demograph felt that they could afford to be anti-business, anti-globilisation and anti-growth in general. But that is not where we are. And with high levels of nett immigration holding down wages, there is little appetite for reducing standards-of-living in exchange for feel-good enviromental factors.

    It is easy to claim that because Farage is a better salesman than Caroline Lucas, his party is doing better. That is probably not actually true. The difference is that UKIP is selling something people want to buy, while the Greens are not.
This discussion has been closed.