Chickens on here clucking do not set rates that an independent Scotland would borrow at.
Correct.
Perhaps you could point us to some comments by the people who would set the rates. You won't find it hard to find them, the issue has been extensively discussed.
Blimey, you don't often see politicians lying quite as brazenly as this. Normally they make at least a token effort to fudge the question so as not to have to lie outright:
Asked whether an independent Scotland would have to pay more to borrow money, the first minister replies: "No, you have to have sustainable level of borrowing and debt. As far as the cost is concerned, we'll be borrowing at Sterling rates."
I think the issue here is that Salmond really does believe that iScot would borrow at the same rate as rUK. In his mind it is not a lie.
Sure great experts like you will know otherwise. Chickens on here clucking do not set rates that an independent Scotland would borrow at. The amount of bullshit on here would fill the Grand Canyon
iScot would have a diminishing oil based economy which is susceptible to volatility, it would therefore have a lower credit rating than rUK. To pretend otherwise is to bury one's head innthe sand.
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
If this is the price of UK's version of East Germany staying in the Union, I say they should just sod off and fail independently on their own dollar. Devo Max gives them everything they want including currency union, and it's my dollar.
In the wake of a Yes vote, Cameron should convene the House and announce an immediate cut in basic rate income tax, reflecting the ending of centuries of subsidy. It would be the English independence dividend.
Is there not polling evidence that on a range of issues Scottish voters are no more left wing than their English counterparts and telling them to "sod off" is doing a particular disservice to the 50% of Scots who want no truck with independence. For those people I'm happy to spend my dollar as you like to put it. Of course there needs to be constitutional reforms in the rest of the UK to reflect the changed situation in Scotland if there was a No vote and I'm sure it'll happen in due course.
That means my pension won’t go up as much as previously. However, if my grandchildren can manage better on their frozen pay..........
The state pension will continue to rise by at least 2.5% a year until 2020 if the Conservatives win the next election, David Cameron has said.
The PM pledged to keep the "triple lock" system, which ensures the state pension goes up by whichever is higher - inflation, wages or 2.5%.
==> So your pension will be unaffected.
The Basic State Pension is not the only pension. Even if the "triple lock" had resulted in a higher Basic State Pension than the previous uprating policy (it hasnt, the BSP is LOWER than if the previous policy had been continued) pensioners have been totally screwed over by the switch from RPI to CPI. Telling people that their pensions are unaffected is just rubbing salt into the wounds when they are hundreds and thousands of pounds worse off (and it's only getting worse).
Assuming TSE's scenario is valid (I think it is BTW) - what's the process for recalling parliament? Bercow has to agree to a request - made by whom? And let's assume a 7am Friday result, Sterling and the markets fall off the cliff - at which point during Friday does a request go in, how quickly does Bercow agree, and how quickly can MPs be organized? Isn't it the opening day of the Labour conference?
On reflection I think Friday week would be more likely. Calling it at 24 hours' notice would simply lead to the place being half-empty, which wouldn't give the desired impression. The Labour conference only starts Sunday, but MPs will be all over the globe anyway (lots don't attend their party conferences). Friday week would give time to sort it out and arrange travel back and it would give everyone time to think what they actually wanted to say. If your partner declares they want to divorce you, it's unwise to call a meeting of the solicitors the very next day.
A (Scottish-born) constituent tells me that he's had serious-looking threats yesterday from nationalists on a blog and has been offered police protection as a result. He is admittedly a mirror-image malcolmg and I've no doubt that he expressed himself about Salmond in an inflammatory way, but still, it's not good. We need to have a result and get on with dealing with it.
More labour lies and big jessie stories
malc - enjoy your holiday on Friday - you have earned it - I just hope your Mi5 salary stretches to somewhere hot and relaxing.
" Labour in power always accepts the super rich bribes and leaves them alone."
My point was that this is the reason (or one of them), that is causing a higher proportion of left leaning voters to support "YES". If it was only SNP voters, the threads over the past few days would be on a different subject.
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
If this is the price of UK's version of East Germany staying in the Union, I say they should just sod off and fail independently on their own dollar. Devo Max gives them everything they want including currency union, and it's my dollar.
In the wake of a Yes vote, Cameron should convene the House and announce an immediate cut in basic rate income tax, reflecting the ending of centuries of subsidy. It would be the English independence dividend.
Walk me through the UK's current account deficit with and without the oil money.
Nice to see that @JackW has returned and all is well.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
If this is the price of UK's version of East Germany staying in the Union, I say they should just sod off and fail independently on their own dollar. Devo Max gives them everything they want including currency union, and it's my dollar.
In the wake of a Yes vote, Cameron should convene the House and announce an immediate cut in basic rate income tax, reflecting the ending of centuries of subsidy. It would be the English independence dividend.
Walk me through the UK's current account deficit with and without the oil money.
RobC: " Of course there needs to be constitutional reforms in the rest of the UK to reflect the changed situation in Scotland if there was a No vote and I'm sure it'll happen in due course."
Doesn't "In due course" really mean "Not for the foreseeable future" in politicspeak?
I think the issue here is that Salmond really does believe that iScot would borrow at the same rate as rUK. In his mind it is not a lie.
That's even worse!
I used to think that ASalmond was after (and events would deliver) DevoMax with a period of intense pre-vote negotiating to be able to wring as much out of Westminster as possible.
With these bonkers pronouncements perhaps he has been caught up in the emotion of the event and is now saying anything (he has of course been doing similar things previously but not as egregiously wrong before) to gain a YES.
In his quiet moments I have no doubt he is thinking to himself, moreso if there is actually a YES: "What Have I Done?"
Nice to see that @JackW has returned and all is well.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
No it wouldn't and mass resignations won't happen. There might be changes before the GE but I can't imagine adding to the turmoil by running away would assist matters. Steady hands on the tiller will be needed for a few months.
To be perfectly honest, I don't feel particularly strongly one way or the other if Scotland votes for independence. If she does - and I think as I have for a long time that she will - I wish her the very best of luck and think that we ought to be generous and friendly to what will remain a neighbour. Thirsting for revenge is silly and counter-productive and it is not in our interests to have an unfriendly neighbour.
If anything I'm more bothered if there is a No vote. I dislike all these promises which have been made to the Scots as if we have to bribe them to stay; we have not been consulted and there are other parts of the UK which require investment, help etc which are making less fuss and are probably more deserving. Also one way or the other if the Scottish Parliament gets more self-government then Scottish MPs should have less say over the government of the rest of the UK. This is only fair.
Labour's policy of mass immigration has been the primary driver of the rise in inequality.
Income inequality rose more under the previous (Thatcher/Major) Conservative government than it did under the Labour (Blair/Brown) administration.
The Gini coefficient rose under Labour despite all the increases in public spending that bankrupted the country.
Are you really saying the deliberate importation of huge numbers of a low IQ, low wage underclass won't rupture the social fabric and create a Latin American style society with a vast underclass and a small super rich minority living in gated communities with no thing in between?
Me I love the middle class, the bourgeoisie got screwed under Labour. Elysium is a cautionary film not a blueprint for the future.
RobC: " Of course there needs to be constitutional reforms in the rest of the UK to reflect the changed situation in Scotland if there was a No vote and I'm sure it'll happen in due course."
Doesn't "In due course" really mean "Not for the foreseeable future" in politicspeak?
Usually but not in this case! I think too many eyes will be watching.
Nice to see that @JackW has returned and all is well.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
No it wouldn't and mass resignations won't happen. There might be changes before the GE but I can't imagine adding to the turmoil by running away would assist matters. Steady hands on the tiller will be needed for a few months.
Will be the line, but many conservatives will think (I am nearly there myself) that Cam should go as he won't be PM any more in the sense that he was elected and that he has lost the country.
Personal qualities of the man aside, and they are also debatable, that is a pretty damning legacy.
Nice to see that @JackW has returned and all is well.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
Yup. What we need is lots of guns in Parliament Square and General Sir Nick Houghton installing Nigel Garage as PM-for-life...
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
If this is the price of UK's version of East Germany staying in the Union, I say they should just sod off and fail independently on their own dollar. Devo Max gives them everything they want including currency union, and it's my dollar.
In the wake of a Yes vote, Cameron should convene the House and announce an immediate cut in basic rate income tax, reflecting the ending of centuries of subsidy. It would be the English independence dividend.
Is there not polling evidence that on a range of issues Scottish voters are no more left wing than their English counterparts and telling them to "sod off" is doing a particular disservice to the 50% of Scots who want no truck with independence. For those people I'm happy to spend my dollar as you like to put it. Of course there needs to be constitutional reforms in the rest of the UK to reflect the changed situation in Scotland if there was a No vote and I'm sure it'll happen in due course.
In the polls that matter, i.e. GEs, 84% of the votes are cast for socialists and they get 97% of the seats. If you were trying to create a union between two countries like this now, you couldn't. They would be too dissimilar. Other than North Korea is there any country where 84% votes for leftism?
The problem of Scotland is that both the No and the Yes votes are votes for free money. No wants free English money and Yes wants free oil money. The former are simply more realistic about what's possible.
One thing I have not heard suggested, in the wake of a Yes vote, is for a cherry picking strategy to be offered. For example, if Shetland and Orkney vote No the obvious thing to do is invite them to stay in the UK. If Edinburgh votes No, then likewise. If you made sure that iScotland consisted as far as possible of those who actually voted for it, then you'd be doing them a favour in terms of national unity; and if a region of the UK can leave the UK, why can't a region of Scotland such as the Shetlands leave Scotland? What arguments can Salmond possibly muster?
Nice to see that @JackW has returned and all is well.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
No it wouldn't and mass resignations won't happen. There might be changes before the GE but I can't imagine adding to the turmoil by running away would assist matters. Steady hands on the tiller will be needed for a few months.
We might even get one of those Ukrainian style Parliamentary punch-up's. SeanT will be after George Monbiot's blood after all.
Farage is being an idiot. Trusting authoritarian dictators as friends is madness.
Pretty much the entire world outside of the West is run by authoritarian dictators, neo con blank state nonsense using Trotsky's permanent revolution doctrine to instigate wars against countries they don't like under the pretext of spreading democracy. Go back to the left.
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Must say I have more confidence in your ARSE than some of the dodgy polling we have seen around here lately. It may not be be 40/60 but I reckon you are a lot closer than UpyoursGov and the like.
As regards Turnover, I am sure the grateful hordes on PB will be bowing and scraping in your direction come Friday. Sporting Index have uplifted their spread again; it's now 82/83.5. Personally I wouldn't buy in at that level but there are other ways of backing high turnout which still offer value. The easiest might be taken the 9/1 on with Betfair that the result will be over 75%. Since postal vote returns are known to be running over 80% already, it's almost inconceivable that total turnout can be less than 75%.
I rarely back odds on, and almost never 9/1 on, but there are exceptions and this seems to me to be an easy way of buying a little money.
My problem with it is that the three amigos are making promises on my behalf that I haven't been consulted on
Isabel Hardman (@IsabelHardman) 16/09/2014 08:19 The problems with that promise from Cameron, Clegg and Miliband specc.ie/YNNNTd #indyref pic.twitter.com/2wAHiekJEI
Would probably be for after the next General though?
Could be wrong but I thought Cameron said yesterday something like
"These aren't idle promises they'll be in place by January with cross party consent"
No way can it be in place that fast. Drafting, re-drafting, committees, etc.
Guardian reporting of “Eyebrow-raising” amounts of money being moved to England by businesses.
Whats the bet that money will never be going back no matter what happens.
Indeed. If you were thinking of setting something up in the UK, then whatever the result, you would not now do it in Scotland. This effect is immediate and will be permanent.
Thirsting for revenge is silly and counter-productive and it is not in our interests to have an unfriendly neighbour.
We'd have an unfriendly neighbour anyway though. The logical way to deal with it is to acquaint the unfriendly neighbour with the consequences of being unfriendly. What would be counter-productive would be to let them get away with it.
If anything I'm more bothered if there is a No vote. I dislike all these promises which have been made to the Scots as if we have to bribe them to stay; we have not been consulted and there are other parts of the UK which require investment, help etc which are making less fuss and are probably more deserving. Also one way or the other if the Scottish Parliament gets more self-government then Scottish MPs should have less say over the government of the rest of the UK. This is only fair.
Well, quite, and the trouble is that as well as offering these leeches stuff that's never been discussed or endorsed by us, who'll be paying for it all, the political class is also refusing even to discuss making the same offer to England.
PBers will have observed how Malcolm arrives on the scene, responds to everything he disagrees with, and then disappears again for a couple of hours.
I have been trying to imagine where he vanishes to, and have the following theories...
1. He goes for lie down 2. He returns to the pub 3. He is put back in his cell 4. The nurses recapture him
Any other suggestions?
He has several other sites where he posts - between writing his blogs. He's been very effective at demonising the YES campaign - just believable enough not to be rumbled.
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
No -you're not. And within about 5 minutes of a NO vote and when the Devomax legislation starts getting drafted it will become very clear to much of the Tory party that they will lose the GE badly if they don't address the England deficit. I don't think Cameron is at risk from a NO so much as a NO followed by pandering unilaterally to Scotland.
The map (http://vis.oobrien.com/indyref/) is really cool but it leaves one further question normally in the hands of the TV experts - what would be a "good" or a "bad" result in some of the early seats?
Say for the 2AM declarations (ish):
Shetlands, Orkneys, Moray, Perth and Kinross, Inverclyde, East Lothian, North Lanarkshire?
Looking at the "yes" rating, North Lanarkshire and East Lothian are themselves closest. But how many votes must Yes and No get in the others to point towards a good result nationally?
The map (http://vis.oobrien.com/indyref/) is really cool but it leaves one further question normally in the hands of the TV experts - what would be a "good" or a "bad" result in some of the early seats?
Say for the 2AM declarations (ish):
Shetlands, Orkneys, Moray, Perth and Kinross, Inverclyde, East Lothian, North Lanarkshire?
Looking at the "yes" rating, North Lanarkshire and East Lothian are themselves closest. But how many votes must Yes and No get in the others to point towards a good result nationally?
Farage is being an idiot. Trusting authoritarian dictators as friends is madness.
Pretty much the entire world outside of the West is run by authoritarian dictators, neo con blank state nonsense using Trotsky's permanent revolution doctrine to instigate wars against countries they don't like under the pretext of spreading democracy. Go back to the left.
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Nonsense. Japan, Brazil, India, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, South Africa, Thailand, the Philippines are all major economies without authoritarian dictators. And that's after you've excluded "the West", which accounts for a serious chunk of the world in the first place. We must, on occasion, work with autocrats out of necessity, but it's absurd to believe we can form lasting friendships with them. The kleptocratic system that has developed in Moscow has not been organically formed by the Russian nation, but by a small elite in the KGB that has seized power via trampling on others' rights. It's rather analagous to how the Duchy of Moscow gained supremacy over Russia in the first place by selling out her countrymen to the Mongols.
Slightly off thread, but can someone please try and help me to understand why all of the bookmakers are still much more confident of a No vote? I know they are trying to make a profit, but does this mean they are still confident of a No and are enticing money in on the Yes to pay for it, or the other way around? I'm just a tad confused why they are so out of whack with the recent polls that say it it closer.
Mr. Corporeal, F1 teams are known for not trying to circumvent rules.
Ahem.
They'll just work out what messages are permitted and embed codes in that. So, when discussing a pit stop (not checked to see if that's ok) they'll use a certain word to mean brakes are hot ('pronto' for example). How can you police that?
Mr. Patrick, quite. If Cameron throws huge powers at Scotland without anything for England I'll actually have a quandary. Voting Conservative is the only likely way to stop Balls, but I would find it near impossible to back a party that treats England so shabbily.
Chickens on here clucking do not set rates that an independent Scotland would borrow at.
Correct.
Perhaps you could point us to some comments by the people who would set the rates. You won't find it hard to find them, the issue has been extensively discussed.
smarty pants, why don't you show me some bona fide lending rates approved for independent Scotland. Think despite your hot air they will be similar to Westminsters "more powers" , ie scotch mist
16.9.14 LAB 331 (332) CON 262(261) LD 33(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) Last weeks BJESUS in brackets BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing) Using current polling adjusted for 232 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer
Mr. Roy, (welcome to pb.com, incidentally), I read here the other day that so much money has been put on No that bookies will make massively losses if No wins. So, they need more money on Yes, and the odds are therefore artificially long, as it were, to entice more money for Yes.
Workers in Scotland will determine the outcome.It is superb to see the amount of discussion and disagreement-it's called democracy.Unite reports the meetings have been real zingers-anyone who experienced Labour at its reddest will be going through daygarge voo.Unite has strictly maintained neutrality,as has Unison,as has Sinn Fein,as the Morning Star has and individual sisters and brothers are sharing debate that includes the sons and daughters of trade unionists and their grandchildren.The debate amongst trade unionists included the female perspective and the reports are the macho qualities in the debate are a big turn off. Division and sectarianism are never in the interests of workers so neutrality makes sure we are not divided.United we stand,Divided we fall.
Farage is being an idiot. Trusting authoritarian dictators as friends is madness.
Pretty much the entire world outside of the West is run by authoritarian dictators, neo con blank state nonsense using Trotsky's permanent revolution doctrine to instigate wars against countries they don't like under the pretext of spreading democracy. Go back to the left.
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Nonsense. Japan, Brazil, India, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, South Africa, Thailand, the Philippines are all major economies without authoritarian dictators. And that's after you've excluded "the West", which accounts for a serious chunk of the world in the first place. We must, on occasion, work with autocrats out of necessity, but it's absurd to believe we can form lasting friendships with them. The kleptocratic system that has developed in Moscow has not been organically formed by the Russian nation, but by a small elite in the KGB that has seized power via trampling on others' rights. It's rather analagous to how the Duchy of Moscow gained supremacy over Russia in the first place by selling out her countrymen to the Mongols.
Not entirely sure one can include Thailand in that list!
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM) 8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM) 12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM) 18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM 2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM 16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
LAB range 329-333 CON range 259-268 LD range 29-34
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
No -you're not. And within about 5 minutes of a NO vote and when the Devomax legislation starts getting drafted it will become very clear to much of the Tory party that they will lose the GE badly if they don't address the England deficit. I don't think Cameron is at risk from a NO so much as a NO followed by pandering unilaterally to Scotland.
I'm glad it's not just me.
Last time I looked something like 40% of the rest of the country want Scotland to go. My guess is that those who say they want them to stay are assuming they would be staying on the current terms.
If you asked those people whether Scotland should be induced to stay by getting special treatment and a preferential semi-detached basis that is not on offer to any English region, I'd think a few would change their mind.
If there is a No and the three parties start collusively sucking up to these greedy ingrates, I will be f>cking livid and will be voting accordingly.
Workers in Scotland will determine the outcome.It is superb to see the amount of discussion and disagreement-it's called democracy.Unite reports the meetings have been real zingers-anyone who experienced Labour at its reddest will be going through daygarge voo.Unite has strictly maintained neutrality,as has Unison,as has Sinn Fein,as the Morning Star has and individual sisters and brothers are sharing debate that includes the sons and daughters of trade unionists and their grandchildren.The debate amongst trade unionists included the female perspective and the reports are the macho qualities in the debate are a big turn off. Division and sectarianism are never in the interests of workers so neutrality makes sure we are not divided.United we stand,Divided we fall.
This is my predicted timeline with running totals. I'm a bit worried about my Western Isles prediction btw. Some reports say it's likely to vote No despite usually electing an SNP MP:
Just to remind everyone, team orders are permitted. Telling a driver if his brakes are overheating is not.
Edited extra bit: glanced through the list of permitted and non-permitted messages. It's an utter nonsense.
F1 jumped the shark several years ago. They're constructing ever more elaborate wheezes to try and make it more entertaining, but it (at least to me) seems to have been counterproductive.
Blimey, you don't often see politicians lying quite as brazenly as this. Normally they make at least a token effort to fudge the question so as not to have to lie outright:
Asked whether an independent Scotland would have to pay more to borrow money, the first minister replies: "No, you have to have sustainable level of borrowing and debt. As far as the cost is concerned, we'll be borrowing at Sterling rates."
I think the issue here is that Salmond really does believe that iScot would borrow at the same rate as rUK. In his mind it is not a lie.
Sure great experts like you will know otherwise. Chickens on here clucking do not set rates that an independent Scotland would borrow at. The amount of bullshit on here would fill the Grand Canyon
iScot would have a diminishing oil based economy which is susceptible to volatility, it would therefore have a lower credit rating than rUK. To pretend otherwise is to bury one's head innthe sand.
Is that the almost bankrupt rump UK that does not have any oil revenue at all then, better in sand than up one's erchie
The EU claims to have kept the peace in Europe, in reality they have sparked two wars in the Balkans and the Ukraine. At least these sanctions remove any doubt that the EU and NATO are the aggressor, time to accept defeat.
Do you think it's possible that the majority of Ukranians might have preferred to be in the EU?
My problem with it is that the three amigos are making promises on my behalf that I haven't been consulted on
Isabel Hardman (@IsabelHardman) 16/09/2014 08:19 The problems with that promise from Cameron, Clegg and Miliband specc.ie/YNNNTd #indyref pic.twitter.com/2wAHiekJEI
Would probably be for after the next General though?
Could be wrong but I thought Cameron said yesterday something like
"These aren't idle promises they'll be in place by January with cross party consent"
No way can it be in place that fast. Drafting, re-drafting, committees, etc.
Here's what he said, you're probably right, I have no idea about parliamentary procedure etc
“We have spelled that change out in practical terms, with a plan and a process.
“If we get a No vote, that will trigger a major, unprecedented programme of devolution, with additional powers for the Scottish Parliament – major new powers over tax, spending and welfare services.
“We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.
“This is a timetable that is now agreed by all the main political parties and set in stone and I am prepared to work with all the main parties to deliver this during 2015."
Simplifying: the Tories are the Party for people who have made money by any means short of kidnapping and bank robbery. And they are the Party for those people's children and grandchildren. However, making money and inheriting it are two different things.
Prejudiced, and wrong.
The Tory party is the party for people who value gradual and organic change in our institutions rather than radical departures from the status quo. They see value in stability, while maintaining the flexibility to develop over time (this is what differentiates them from those social conservatives who have shifted to UKIP: it's the historical split between the Ditchers and the Reformers).
Conservatism is an organic part of the British psyche.
The EU claims to have kept the peace in Europe, in reality they have sparked two wars in the Balkans and the Ukraine. At least these sanctions remove any doubt that the EU and NATO are the aggressor, time to accept defeat.
Do you think it's possible that the majority of Ukranians might have preferred to be in the EU?
FalseFlag is a fan of Vladimir Putin and Jean-Marie Le Pen. Do you really think he cares about the views or well-being of the many?
Simplifying: the Tories are the Party for people who have made money by any means short of kidnapping and bank robbery. And they are the Party for those people's children and grandchildren. However, making money and inheriting it are two different things.
Prejudiced, and wrong.
The Tory party is the party for people who value gradual and organic change in our institutions rather than radical departures from the status quo. They see value in stability, while maintaining the flexibility to develop over time (this is what differentiates them from those social conservatives who have shifted to UKIP: it's the historical split between the Ditchers and the Reformers).
Conservatism is an organic part of the British psyche.
Sadly, Charles, the Tory party is now a coalition with those two groups vying for ascendency.
This is my predicted timeline with running totals. I'm a bit worried about my Western Isles prediction btw. Some reports say it's likely to vote No despite usually electing an SNP MP:
Mr. M, got to say I (mostly) disagree. I would axe DRS (ERS can be used by anyone at any time and works better). The tyre, aerodynamic and (this year) engine changes have made the sport more competitive and entertaining. At the start of 2012 we had seven different winners in the first seven races, from (I think) four or perhaps five different teams.
Overtaking was much harder a few years ago and tyres lasting forever meant strategy played little role as well. F1's better now than it was then.
Slightly off thread, but can someone please try and help me to understand why all of the bookmakers are still much more confident of a No vote? I know they are trying to make a profit, but does this mean they are still confident of a No and are enticing money in on the Yes to pay for it, or the other way around? I'm just a tad confused why they are so out of whack with the recent polls that say it it closer.
Previous weight of money placed will be a consideration I would think.
My problem with it is that the three amigos are making promises on my behalf that I haven't been consulted on
Isabel Hardman (@IsabelHardman) 16/09/2014 08:19 The problems with that promise from Cameron, Clegg and Miliband specc.ie/YNNNTd #indyref pic.twitter.com/2wAHiekJEI
Would probably be for after the next General though?
Could be wrong but I thought Cameron said yesterday something like
"These aren't idle promises they'll be in place by January with cross party consent"
No way can it be in place that fast. Drafting, re-drafting, committees, etc.
Here's what he said, you're probably right, I have no idea about parliamentary procedure etc
“We have spelled that change out in practical terms, with a plan and a process.
“If we get a No vote, that will trigger a major, unprecedented programme of devolution, with additional powers for the Scottish Parliament – major new powers over tax, spending and welfare services.
“We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.
“This is a timetable that is now agreed by all the main political parties and set in stone and I am prepared to work with all the main parties to deliver this during 2015."
Yeah, that's quick but plausible. I've only a vague grasp of parliamentary procedure but I'm pretty certain it wouldn't be even that close to being passed before the GE.
This is my predicted timeline with running totals. I'm a bit worried about my Western Isles prediction btw. Some reports say it's likely to vote No despite usually electing an SNP MP:
Have a look at Scotgoespop - in the last day or two, perhaps the comments rather than the main pieces. This was discussed. IIRC it was suggested that that the Western had been lumped with the Northern Isles in the original source data, or at least in a recent density map. No idea if so but that would be one explanation.
Am I the only one who is rather pis sed off at all the goodies being offered to 84% leftist Scotland to stay, when we haven't even been consulted on whether we agree with any of it?
No -you're not. And within about 5 minutes of a NO vote and when the Devomax legislation starts getting drafted it will become very clear to much of the Tory party that they will lose the GE badly if they don't address the England deficit. I don't think Cameron is at risk from a NO so much as a NO followed by pandering unilaterally to Scotland.
I'm glad it's not just me.
Last time I looked something like 40% of the rest of the country want Scotland to go. My guess is that those who say they want them to stay are assuming they would be staying on the current terms.
If you asked those people whether Scotland should be induced to stay by getting special treatment and a preferential semi-detached basis that is not on offer to any English region, I'd think a few would change their mind.
If there is a No and the three parties start collusively sucking up to these greedy ingrates, I will be f>cking livid and will be voting accordingly.
Apparently we have no choice because all 3 are going to be "sucking up to the greedy ingrates" as you put it.
What should happen after a No vote is something that should be discussed and voted on at the next GE not imposed on us as part of some last-minute panicked cobbling together, which will end up being the usual dog's breakfast.
I now really hope Scotland votes for independence.
This is my predicted timeline with running totals. I'm a bit worried about my Western Isles prediction btw. Some reports say it's likely to vote No despite usually electing an SNP MP:
smarty pants, why don't you show me some bona fide lending rates approved for independent Scotland. Think despite your hot air they will be similar to Westminsters "more powers" , ie scotch mist
There aren't any, of course, because no-one knows what the settlement terms will be, or even what currency Scotland would use. The one 100% incontrovertible fact is that an independent Scotland would have to pay more to borrow, at least to start with. That is not in any doubt whatsoever.
Still, we can make some guesses as to credit rating based on current information.
Moody's have already indicated the rating might be 'A' initially, but with risks tilted to the downside :
Fitch haven't been that specific, but have said: "it was impossible to predict what credit rating an independent Scotland would be awarded because of the large number of uncertainties, such as its subsequent macro policy and the question of what will happen to the UK’s debt.
Slightly off thread, but can someone please try and help me to understand why all of the bookmakers are still much more confident of a No vote? I know they are trying to make a profit, but does this mean they are still confident of a No and are enticing money in on the Yes to pay for it, or the other way around? I'm just a tad confused why they are so out of whack with the recent polls that say it it closer.
Bookies try to balance their books. They don't go by their personal guesses. The odds mean that most people with money are backing No. Why that is true is an interesting question. Sentiment? Impressions from postal vote examination? Canvass returns? Your guess is as good as mine.
Could be wrong but I thought Cameron said yesterday something like
"These aren't idle promises they'll be in place by January with cross party consent"
No way can it be in place that fast. Drafting, re-drafting, committees, etc.
That's a Dave thing, he throws out that sort of comment without bothering about precision. Cf. "We'll have a referendum on Europe in 2017". On what exactly, given there won't be a treaty then? "Oh, stop asking these petty details."
Don't think so (except YG on normal politics). Too risky for pollsters to have a poll 24 hours earlier than the others which proves not to catch any late swing and damages their reputation.
Farage is being an idiot. Trusting authoritarian dictators as friends is madness.
Pretty much the entire world outside of the West is run by authoritarian dictators, neo con blank state nonsense using Trotsky's permanent revolution doctrine to instigate wars against countries they don't like under the pretext of spreading democracy. Go back to the left.
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Nonsense. Japan, Brazil, India, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, South Africa, Thailand, the Philippines are all major economies without authoritarian dictators. And that's after you've excluded "the West", which accounts for a serious chunk of the world in the first place. We must, on occasion, work with autocrats out of necessity, but it's absurd to believe we can form lasting friendships with them. The kleptocratic system that has developed in Moscow has not been organically formed by the Russian nation, but by a small elite in the KGB that has seized power via trampling on others' rights. It's rather analagous to how the Duchy of Moscow gained supremacy over Russia in the first place by selling out her countrymen to the Mongols.
Ignorance and frightening arrogance.
Brazil, militarised police. Japan, managed democracy. Korea, managed democracy. Thailand, seriously??? India, riven by corruption and ethic religious strife. Indonesia, East Timor? Malaysia, Muslim insurgency.
Most of these states have no real rule of law and are fantastically corrupt, like most countries.
If anyone should resign it should be Bland the Younger since it will have been his traditional voters who turned their back on the UK.
This is ridiculous. In 1955 the Unionist party received 50.1% of the vote. In their first election as The Scottish Conservatives and Unionists, in 1966, this was down to 37.6%. By 1997 a mere 17.5% voted for the Tories.
Over the same time period the share of the vote going to the SNP grew from 0.5% to 22.1% in 1997.
If Scotland votes for Independence this Thursday then the fatal wounds to the Union will probably have been inflicted before Ed Miliband had memorised his times tables. Maybe even before he was born.
There are supposed to be no recounts no matter how close it is in a particular council area, but I think in reality there will be a natural slowing down of the counting process in councils where the result is obviously very close. That's why I've put a delay in for council areas where the margin is less than 3-5,000 votes excl. small counts like Western Isles.
Apparently we have no choice because all 3 are going to be "sucking up to the greedy ingrates" as you put it.
What should happen after a No vote is something that should be discussed and voted on at the next GE not imposed on us as part of some last-minute panicked cobbling together, which will end up being the usual dog's breakfast.
I now really hope Scotland votes for independence.
I agree with all of that. The three of them offering everything on a plate forever was a step too far for me.
How ironic that our politicans have done more to convert me to a YES that any of the rantings of the cyberNats
Evening Standard @standardnews 11m South Yorkshire's police & crime commissioner quits over Rotherham sex abuse scandal http://bit.ly/1qIfh8f pic.twitter.com/5VW6e7cN0s
The EU claims to have kept the peace in Europe, in reality they have sparked two wars in the Balkans and the Ukraine. At least these sanctions remove any doubt that the EU and NATO are the aggressor, time to accept defeat.
Do you think it's possible that the majority of Ukranians might have preferred to be in the EU?
Do you think the majority in say Lvov might do but say the majority in the East don't and the South would be at best ambivalent?
I don't have a problem with the Prime Minister arguing we are not at the stage of discussing devolution elsewhere in the UK yet. First we are not at that stage until we know how Scotland votes and second, it is sensible for the focus to be solely on Scotland this week.
I would expect the English question to be dealt with in due course and once we know what further devolution means in practice. I think EV4EL is a sensible option, more transparent and understandable than the McKay Commission's committee voting plan.
I'm a unionist, but the pathetic pandering of Cameron, Clegg and Miliband and seemingly total complacency about and disregard towards England has shifted me further to hoping for a Yes than I'd thought possible.
Ideally, I want a No and an English Parliament. The political clowns only seem to want one of those.
Edited extra bit: Mr. M, I hope you're right. The Conservatives *might* have a sensible approach to England. Labour and the Lib Dems will not.
Farage is being an idiot. Trusting authoritarian dictators as friends is madness.
Pretty much the entire world outside of the West is run by authoritarian dictators, neo con blank state nonsense using Trotsky's permanent revolution doctrine to instigate wars against countries they don't like under the pretext of spreading democracy. Go back to the left.
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Nonsense. Japan, Brazil, India, Mexico, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, South Africa, Thailand, the Philippines are all major economies without authoritarian dictators. And that's after you've excluded "the West", which accounts for a serious chunk of the world in the first place. We must, on occasion, work with autocrats out of necessity, but it's absurd to believe we can form lasting friendships with them. The kleptocratic system that has developed in Moscow has not been organically formed by the Russian nation, but by a small elite in the KGB that has seized power via trampling on others' rights. It's rather analagous to how the Duchy of Moscow gained supremacy over Russia in the first place by selling out her countrymen to the Mongols.
Ignorance and frightening arrogance.
Brazil, militarised police. Japan, managed democracy. Korea, managed democracy. Thailand, seriously??? India, riven by corruption and ethic religious strife. Indonesia, East Timor? Malaysia, Muslim insurgency.
Most of these states have no real rule of law and are fantastically corrupt, like most countries.
I never claimed they were perfectly liberal democracies. Just that they were not run by "authoritarian dictators", which is entirely correct.
Have a look at the World's democracy index: green is more democratic, red is more autocratic. The idea that democracies are a tiny chunk of the world beset by Putins and Assads is clearly drivel:
Slightly off thread, but can someone please try and help me to understand why all of the bookmakers are still much more confident of a No vote? I know they are trying to make a profit, but does this mean they are still confident of a No and are enticing money in on the Yes to pay for it, or the other way around? I'm just a tad confused why they are so out of whack with the recent polls that say it it closer.
Bookies try to balance their books. They don't go by their personal guesses. The odds mean that most people with money are backing No. Why that is true is an interesting question. Sentiment? Impressions from postal vote examination? Canvass returns? Your guess is as good as mine.
I'd imagine it's the weight of money staked on no earlier in the race when the polling was different holding the market near there.
Retaining the Barnett formula is a serious and unnecessary error. By all means allow the Scottish Parliamentary extend its tax raising powers but the corollary should be a sharp reduction, ideally elimination, of this subvention from the rest of the UK.
Hand of GOD @HandofGOD7 Sep 9 No shame. Joyce Thacker, socialist, diversity Nazi & Common Purpose lunatic says she still has work to do in #Rotherham. Poor kids.
I'm a unionist, but the pathetic pandering of Cameron, Clegg and Miliband and seemingly total complacency about and disregard towards England has shifted me further to hoping for a Yes than I'd thought possible.
Ideally, I want a No and an English Parliament. The political clowns only seem to want one of those.
Edited extra bit: Mr. M, I hope you're right. The Conservatives *might* have a sensible approach to England. Labour and the Lib Dems will not.
Whether this will be a sensible (in your terms) solution I don’t know, but Paul Tyler in LibDEm Voice says: “an all ‘English’ solution to ‘the English Question’ would both unbalance the Union (which I very much hope will be preserved) and fail totally to decentralise power. Instead, a ‘bottom-up’ approach to devolution, starting in the areas where there is most enthusiasm for it, could be a catalyst to the real decentralisation we all seek."
"How ironic that our politicans have done more to convert me to a YES that any of the rantings of the cyberNats "
Yes, I agree, Beverley.
How, for example, is this fair to Wales and N Ireland, which are offered nothing, presumably because they do not bleat loudly enough?
Is it fair to make these offers without offering all the rest of the Brits the opportunity to comment? Should there not be a referendum to see if England, Wales and NI actually want to keep Scotland in the Union? I'm not sure what the result of such a vote would be, but I bet it would be closer than it would have been a year ago.
Anybody that has the experience of bringing up children will know the folly of handing out treats whenever they holler. That's pretty much what our Party Leaders are doing, and I don't like it one bit.
Comments
The PM pledged to keep the "triple lock" system, which ensures the state pension goes up by whichever is higher - inflation, wages or 2.5%.
==> So your pension will be unaffected.
Perhaps you could point us to some comments by the people who would set the rates. You won't find it hard to find them, the issue has been extensively discussed.
Has Eck responded with more lies, or kept his trap shut?
" Labour in power always accepts the super rich bribes and leaves them alone."
My point was that this is the reason (or one of them), that is causing a higher proportion of left leaning voters to support "YES".
If it was only SNP voters, the threads over the past few days would be on a different subject.
On topic, how exciting would it be to have an emergency recall of Parliament on Saturday and the resignation of the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minster and LOTO!
Doesn't "In due course" really mean "Not for the foreseeable future" in politicspeak?
With these bonkers pronouncements perhaps he has been caught up in the emotion of the event and is now saying anything (he has of course been doing similar things previously but not as egregiously wrong before) to gain a YES.
In his quiet moments I have no doubt he is thinking to himself, moreso if there is actually a YES: "What Have I Done?"
If anything I'm more bothered if there is a No vote. I dislike all these promises which have been made to the Scots as if we have to bribe them to stay; we have not been consulted and there are other parts of the UK which require investment, help etc which are making less fuss and are probably more deserving. Also one way or the other if the Scottish Parliament gets more self-government then Scottish MPs should have less say over the government of the rest of the UK. This is only fair.
Are you really saying the deliberate importation of huge numbers of a low IQ, low wage underclass won't rupture the social fabric and create a Latin American style society with a vast underclass and a small super rich minority living in gated communities with no thing in between?
Me I love the middle class, the bourgeoisie got screwed under Labour. Elysium is a cautionary film not a blueprint for the future.
Hardly a vote of confidence in an independent Scotland.
However as wages, except at the top, are still being screwed down, as I said, life won’t that much more difficult for my grandchildren.
Personal qualities of the man aside, and they are also debatable, that is a pretty damning legacy.
The problem of Scotland is that both the No and the Yes votes are votes for free money. No wants free English money and Yes wants free oil money. The former are simply more realistic about what's possible.
One thing I have not heard suggested, in the wake of a Yes vote, is for a cherry picking strategy to be offered. For example, if Shetland and Orkney vote No the obvious thing to do is invite them to stay in the UK. If Edinburgh votes No, then likewise. If you made sure that iScotland consisted as far as possible of those who actually voted for it, then you'd be doing them a favour in terms of national unity; and if a region of the UK can leave the UK, why can't a region of Scotland such as the Shetlands leave Scotland? What arguments can Salmond possibly muster?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29213997
Just to remind everyone, team orders are permitted. Telling a driver if his brakes are overheating is not.
Edited extra bit: glanced through the list of permitted and non-permitted messages. It's an utter nonsense.
Emotions running high...
Nations should be free to develop their own systems organically.
Good to see you back in harness, Young Jack.
Must say I have more confidence in your ARSE than some of the dodgy polling we have seen around here lately. It may not be be 40/60 but I reckon you are a lot closer than UpyoursGov and the like.
As regards Turnover, I am sure the grateful hordes on PB will be bowing and scraping in your direction come Friday. Sporting Index have uplifted their spread again; it's now 82/83.5. Personally I wouldn't buy in at that level but there are other ways of backing high turnout which still offer value. The easiest might be taken the 9/1 on with Betfair that the result will be over 75%. Since postal vote returns are known to be running over 80% already, it's almost inconceivable that total turnout can be less than 75%.
I rarely back odds on, and almost never 9/1 on, but there are exceptions and this seems to me to be an easy way of buying a little money.
I have been trying to imagine where he vanishes to, and have the following theories...
1. He goes for lie down
2. He returns to the pub
3. He is put back in his cell
4. The nurses recapture him
Any other suggestions?
Say for the 2AM declarations (ish):
Shetlands, Orkneys, Moray, Perth and Kinross, Inverclyde, East Lothian, North Lanarkshire?
Looking at the "yes" rating, North Lanarkshire and East Lothian are themselves closest. But how many votes must Yes and No get in the others to point towards a good result nationally?
Some good news at last.
BBC Ticker.
Ahem.
They'll just work out what messages are permitted and embed codes in that. So, when discussing a pit stop (not checked to see if that's ok) they'll use a certain word to mean brakes are hot ('pronto' for example). How can you police that?
Mr. Patrick, quite. If Cameron throws huge powers at Scotland without anything for England I'll actually have a quandary. Voting Conservative is the only likely way to stop Balls, but I would find it near impossible to back a party that treats England so shabbily.
16.9.14 LAB 331 (332) CON 262(261) LD 33(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
Last weeks BJESUS in brackets
BJESUS (Big John Election Service Uniform Swing)
Using current polling adjusted for 232 days left to go factor and using UKPR standard swingometer
Division and sectarianism are never in the interests of workers so neutrality makes sure we are not divided.United we stand,Divided we fall.
17.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
24.6.14 LAB 330 CON 263 LD 33 UKIP 0 Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
1.7.14 LAB 329(330) CON 268 (263) LD 29(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24(24) (Ed is crap is PM)
8.7.14 LAB 330 (329) CON 264(268) LD 32(29) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
15.7.14 LAB 329 (330) CON 264(264) LD 33(32) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
22.7.14 LAB 331 (329) CON 261(264) LD 34(33) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
29.7.14 LAB 332 (331) CON 260(261) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
5.8.14 LAB 330(332) CON 262(260) LD 34(34 UKIP0(0) Others 24 (Ed is Crap is PM)
12.8.14 LAB 332 (330) CON 260(262) LD 34(34) UKIP 0(0) Others 24 (Ed is crap is PM)
18.8.14 LAB 331(332) CON 261(260) LD 34(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
26.8.14 LAB 333(331) CON 259(261)LD(34)UKIP 0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
2.9.14 LAB331(333) CON261(259) LD24(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM
9.9.14 LAB332(331) CON260(261) LD34(34) Others24 (24) Ed is crap is PM
16.9.14 LAB 331(332) CON 262(260) LD 33(34) UKIP0(0) Others 24 Ed is crap is PM
LAB range 329-333
CON range 259-268
LD range 29-34
Last time I looked something like 40% of the rest of the country want Scotland to go. My guess is that those who say they want them to stay are assuming they would be staying on the current terms.
If you asked those people whether Scotland should be induced to stay by getting special treatment and a preferential semi-detached basis that is not on offer to any English region, I'd think a few would change their mind.
If there is a No and the three parties start collusively sucking up to these greedy ingrates, I will be f>cking livid and will be voting accordingly.
This is my predicted timeline with running totals. I'm a bit worried about my Western Isles prediction btw. Some reports say it's likely to vote No despite usually electing an SNP MP:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WX0VkvxhGdACIr4FYUue_Cryk6JNRg743gsgoETYtw0/htmlview?usp=drive_web
“We have spelled that change out in practical terms, with a plan and a process.
“If we get a No vote, that will trigger a major, unprecedented programme of devolution, with additional powers for the Scottish Parliament – major new powers over tax, spending and welfare services.
“We have agreed a timetable for that stronger Scottish Parliament – a timetable to bring in the new powers that will go ahead if there is a No vote. A White Paper by November, put into draft legislation by January.
“This is a timetable that is now agreed by all the main political parties and set in stone and I am prepared to work with all the main parties to deliver this during 2015."
The Tory party is the party for people who value gradual and organic change in our institutions rather than radical departures from the status quo. They see value in stability, while maintaining the flexibility to develop over time (this is what differentiates them from those social conservatives who have shifted to UKIP: it's the historical split between the Ditchers and the Reformers).
Conservatism is an organic part of the British psyche.
(Your 53.5/46.5 prediction gives a certain leeway for No to underperform but still win, of course.)
Overtaking was much harder a few years ago and tyres lasting forever meant strategy played little role as well. F1's better now than it was then.
What should happen after a No vote is something that should be discussed and voted on at the next GE not imposed on us as part of some last-minute panicked cobbling together, which will end up being the usual dog's breakfast.
I now really hope Scotland votes for independence.
I note you are now predicting an 83% turnout. When and why did you upgrade this from earlier forecasts?
Still, we can make some guesses as to credit rating based on current information.
Moody's have already indicated the rating might be 'A' initially, but with risks tilted to the downside :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27247870
Fitch haven't been that specific, but have said: "it was impossible to predict what credit rating an independent Scotland would be awarded because of the large number of uncertainties, such as its subsequent macro policy and the question of what will happen to the UK’s debt.
http://www.ftadviser.com/2014/09/16/investments/fitch-yes-vote-not-a-game-changer-for-uk-rating-QyTJ79cnq0bwogsPCfbgPO/article-0.html
Uncertainty = increased borrowing costs, as you will be aware.
And S+P have written a paper laying out some of the issues, and have warned that an independent Scotland would struggle to get a top rating:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3866b10a-9fa8-11e3-94f3-00144feab7de.html#axzz3DT3s6gKl
Brazil, militarised police.
Japan, managed democracy.
Korea, managed democracy.
Thailand, seriously???
India, riven by corruption and ethic religious strife.
Indonesia, East Timor?
Malaysia, Muslim insurgency.
Most of these states have no real rule of law and are fantastically corrupt, like most countries.
Over the same time period the share of the vote going to the SNP grew from 0.5% to 22.1% in 1997.
If Scotland votes for Independence this Thursday then the fatal wounds to the Union will probably have been inflicted before Ed Miliband had memorised his times tables. Maybe even before he was born.
How ironic that our politicans have done more to convert me to a YES that any of the rantings of the cyberNats
South Yorkshire's police & crime commissioner quits over Rotherham sex abuse scandal http://bit.ly/1qIfh8f pic.twitter.com/5VW6e7cN0s
I would expect the English question to be dealt with in due course and once we know what further devolution means in practice. I think EV4EL is a sensible option, more transparent and understandable than the McKay Commission's committee voting plan.
I'm a unionist, but the pathetic pandering of Cameron, Clegg and Miliband and seemingly total complacency about and disregard towards England has shifted me further to hoping for a Yes than I'd thought possible.
Ideally, I want a No and an English Parliament. The political clowns only seem to want one of those.
Edited extra bit: Mr. M, I hope you're right. The Conservatives *might* have a sensible approach to England. Labour and the Lib Dems will not.
Have a look at the World's democracy index: green is more democratic, red is more autocratic. The idea that democracies are a tiny chunk of the world beset by Putins and Assads is clearly drivel:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Democracy_Index_2012_green_and_red.svg/1280px-Democracy_Index_2012_green_and_red.svg.png
They would have included plans for an English Parliament, but they ran out of room on the back of the envelope.
No shame. Joyce Thacker, socialist, diversity Nazi & Common Purpose lunatic says she still has work to do in #Rotherham. Poor kids.
“an all ‘English’ solution to ‘the English Question’ would both unbalance the Union (which I very much hope will be preserved) and fail totally to decentralise power. Instead, a ‘bottom-up’ approach to devolution, starting in the areas where there is most enthusiasm for it, could be a catalyst to the real decentralisation we all seek."
Yes, I agree, Beverley.
How, for example, is this fair to Wales and N Ireland, which are offered nothing, presumably because they do not bleat loudly enough?
Is it fair to make these offers without offering all the rest of the Brits the opportunity to comment? Should there not be a referendum to see if England, Wales and NI actually want to keep Scotland in the Union? I'm not sure what the result of such a vote would be, but I bet it would be closer than it would have been a year ago.
Anybody that has the experience of bringing up children will know the folly of handing out treats whenever they holler. That's pretty much what our Party Leaders are doing, and I don't like it one bit.