'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
Hysteria doesn't have to be on one's own behalf, and yours seems entirely based on cockeyed media reports and vestigial knowledge. Try some objective analysis for yourself: how many verifiable reports of assaults, broken windows, threats of violence and acts of vandalism connected to the referendum can you find?
It never occurred to me to count incidents so I could not say. I have a lot of friends in Scotland and I go by what they tell me. I have known them for 30+ years and I trust them.
The media and bloggers and journos on the ground report a lot of the same. Salmond's press conferences have an air of the surreal about them as he ignores facts he dislikes and questions he does not want to hear. The whole thing conveys an impression and a bad one at that.
People's feeling and moods are often set by impressions rather than facts - a technique that YES seems to be employing to a spectacular advantage - but it is a techniques that works both ways and it paints YES as nasty and intolerant.
Obviously you disagree with me and I have no issues with that. All I am doing is responding with how I feel, how what I see affects me and why I worry for those who, unlike me, are caught in the middle of this.
YES might be right Mr Divvie. This might be the best thing that could ever happen to Scotland, but how come no one else in the world seems to see it that way?. Whatever view the YES campaign has, it is not a balanced one, it cannot be because only victory matters. But surely you must acknowledge that it is a bit odd that only one small group with a vested interest is right compared to a much larger group of well-informed largely impartial people who say the opposite.
Salmond does not even offer counter-arguments to those he disagrees with, he merely brushes their arguments aside as irrelevant or not worth discussing. Does that really not worry you?
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
"So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions"
3.14pm BST James Kelly, a pro-independence blogger, says this poll gives the yes camp their second highest ratings in a telephone poll.
There are no Unionist tanks in Edinburgh.
LOL. However, more seriously I have always felt that on-line polling has to be susceptible to organised infiltration - particularly so to something like Y/N referenda. I know the polling companies have methods to counter this but I remain sceptical.
There was an occasion about 2 years back where the No side raised a chorus of worries of infiltration by the Yes side with the effect that one pollster's panel was frozen - or something of the sort. (Which raises questions about how it has kept up with tecent changes.) Others will know about 100x more than me about that.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Pity that Scotland has less unemployed than England. You would know about that given you attend for your JSA.
Wrong. As a believer in facts rather than opinions I'm sure you'll be interested to know that the last ONS unemployment data showed 6.3% of people were unemployed in England and 6.4% of people were unemployed in Scotland.
I fear the SNP have been too busy with their campaigning and forgotten all about the public they are meant to be serving.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
malc always enjoys a good pint after a hard day's marching
Stay with the whatever the British Army becomes, and there's an opportunity to travel the globe, and possibly see some action or do something useful (which lets face it, is what soldiers train to do).
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Sounds better for your life expectancy/family life.
Stand by for a shitstorm, beeboid interviewer saying she came across widespread intimidation from Yes during the campaign. Interviewing reid and Murphy.
Like the planned Nat 'Intimidation' Parades on Election Day.
Those are utterly disgusting, IMO.
And you don't know anything about them except that there will be facepaint! and balloons!!
Rob is a scaredy fanny Carnyx, he imagines that face painting which takes place every week at fairs etc is disgusting. What a serious halfwitted jessie erchie.
Hysteria doesn't have to be on one's own behalf, and yours seems entirely based on cockeyed media reports and vestigial knowledge. Try some objective analysis for yourself: how many verifiable reports of assaults, broken windows, threats of violence and acts of vandalism connected to the referendum can you find?
It never occurred to me to count incidents so I could not say. I have a lot of friends in Scotland and I go by what they tell me. I have known them for 30+ years and I trust them.
The media and bloggers and journos on the ground report a lot of the same. Salmond's press conferences have an air of the surreal about them as he ignores facts he dislikes and questions he does not want to hear. The whole thing conveys an impression and a bad one at that.
People's feeling and moods are often set by impressions rather than facts - a technique that YES seems to be employing to a spectacular advantage - but it is a techniques that works both ways and it paints YES as nasty and intolerant.
Obviously you disagree with me and I have no issues with that. All I am doing is responding with how I feel, how what I see affects me and why I worry for those who, unlike me, are caught in the middle of this.
YES might be right Mr Divvie. This might be the best thing that could ever happen to Scotland, but how come no one else in the world seems to see it that way?. Whatever view the YES campaign has, it is not a balanced one, it cannot be because only victory matters. But surely you must acknowledge that it is a bit odd that only one small group with a vested interest is right compared to a much larger group of well-informed largely impartial people who say the opposite.
Salmond does not even offer counter-arguments to those he disagrees with, he merely brushes their arguments aside as irrelevant or not worth discussing. Does that really not worry you?
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
"So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions"
Hysteria doesn't have to be on one's own behalf, and yours seems entirely based on cockeyed media reports and vestigial knowledge. Try some objective analysis for yourself: how many verifiable reports of assaults, broken windows, threats of violence and acts of vandalism connected to the referendum can you find?
It never occurred to me to count incidents so I could not say. I have a lot of friends in Scotland and I go by what they tell me. I have known them for 30+ years and I trust them.
The media and bloggers and journos on the ground report a lot of the same. Salmond's press conferences have an air of the surreal about them as he ignores facts he dislikes and questions he does not want to hear. The whole thing conveys an impression and a bad one at that.
People's feeling and moods are often set by impressions rather than facts - a technique that YES seems to be employing to a spectacular advantage - but it is a techniques that works both ways and it paints YES as nasty and intolerant.
Obviously you disagree with me and I have no issues with that. All I am doing is responding with how I feel, how what I see affects me and why I worry for those who, unlike me, are caught in the middle of this.
YES might be right Mr Divvie. This might be the best thing that could ever happen to Scotland, but how come no one else in the world seems to see it that way?. Whatever view the YES campaign has, it is not a balanced one, it cannot be because only victory matters. But surely you must acknowledge that it is a bit odd that only one small group with a vested interest is right compared to a much larger group of well-informed largely impartial people who say the opposite.
Salmond does not even offer counter-arguments to those he disagrees with, he merely brushes their arguments aside as irrelevant or not worth discussing. Does that really not worry you?
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
"So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions"
that;s just so funny in its own way.
The future is unknown, the past immutable.
Well, under New Labour, the future was certain, it was the past that kept changing..
Stay with the whatever the British Army becomes, and there's an opportunity to travel the globe, and possibly see some action or do something useful (which lets face it, is what soldiers train to do).
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Sounds better for your life expectancy/family life.
yes no illegal wars , no getting bits and pieces blown off trying to steal other people's oil, sounds all right. Bet watcher is just dying to give up his JSA and volunteer for service. More likely he prefers Call of Duty on his state funded 50" plasma.
Just over 5 hours on the streets of Dundee today handing out Labour material for a no vote. Their Indyref bus was in town and formed the base for operations. Roughly 50-60 people helping out including those on the bus who included Sarwar.
The day involved a vaguely amusing and well behaved confrontation with a Yes march and a battle for the poor Dundee shoppers with competing stalls set up by the SNP and the Socialist Workers.
Trying my best to be objective I would say the following:
1. We were clearly outnumbered by the activists for Yes, probably about 3:2. 2. Labour party material was received a lot better than BT material might have been. Quite a number of people volunteered that we were finally handing out the right material and it was about time. 3. Very significant numbers of No supporters had already voted. 4. Quite a number of people felt intimidated by the Yes demonstrators and clapped me and others on our backs for our "courage". I have to say that I did not face any personal intimidation all day and think that the fear of this is completely out of synch with the reality. 5. It is hard to underestimate the scale of this. By the middle of the afternoon the majority of shoppers in Dundee were wearing badges for one side or the other with the odd comedian wearing both. I have never seen a political campaign that has got close to this intensity. 6. Having spoken myself to several hundred people today it is difficult to give any more than a vague impression of the overall picture. My impression is that whilst Yes had the edge it was genuinely close. I spoke to over 200 people who were either voting or had voted no myself. 7. I am ticked off that we have not been doing more of this earlier and that we have given the streets of Dundee to Yes too often. Those who were inclined to vote no were genuinely pleased we were there and making the effort.
This week is now all about GOTV. It is going to be busy.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
Go stick your head up your Erchie you pillock. One pint if it is any of your business you sour faced pile of puss.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
malc always enjoys a good pint after a hard day's marching
Did plenty of marching round shops Alan for sure. Sent out by the boss.
Stand by for a shitstorm, beeboid interviewer saying she came across widespread intimidation from Yes during the campaign. Interviewing reid and Murphy.
Like the planned Nat 'Intimidation' Parades on Election Day.
Those are utterly disgusting, IMO.
And you don't know anything about them except that there will be facepaint! and balloons!!
Rob is a scaredy fanny Carnyx, he imagines that face painting which takes place every week at fairs etc is disgusting. What a serious halfwitted jessie erchie.
Malcontent, we can all imagine the attractions at fairs that you attend.
Braveheart facepainting, displays of intimidation marching, Wickerman burning etc
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Pity that Scotland has less unemployed than England. You would know about that given you attend for your JSA.
Wrong. As a believer in facts rather than opinions I'm sure you'll be interested to know that the last ONS unemployment data showed 6.3% of people were unemployed in England and 6.4% of people were unemployed in Scotland.
I fear the SNP have been too busy with their campaigning and forgotten all about the public they are meant to be serving.
Is this a clue - Groundskeeper Willie on His Master's Voice?
Willie knows how it is going
I see that Rupert Murdoch is now in Scotland, whether The Sun in Scotland will take a Salmond leap is another matter. I don't know if Mayor Quimby has been encouraging voters to vote no. But Homer Simpson would probably vote both ways - D'Oh.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
Go stick your head up your Erchie you pillock. One pint if it is any of your business you sour faced pile of puss.
Have a few more - it might improve your vocabulary.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Pity that Scotland has less unemployed than England. You would know about that given you attend for your JSA.
Wrong. As a believer in facts rather than opinions I'm sure you'll be interested to know that the last ONS unemployment data showed 6.3% of people were unemployed in England and 6.4% of people were unemployed in Scotland.
I fear the SNP have been too busy with their campaigning and forgotten all about the public they are meant to be serving.
Look what happened to Fraser Nelson yesterday when he was trying to interview someone about the Indy Ref campaign, I think he was quite shocked to personally experience this kind of intimidation from Yes a activist. Fraser Nelson and I have one thing in common, we were both born in Inverness.
Stand by for a shitstorm, beeboid interviewer saying she came across widespread intimidation from Yes during the campaign. Interviewing reid and Murphy.
Look what happened to Fraser Nelson yesterday when he was trying to interview someone about the Indy Ref campaign, I think he was quite shocked to personally experience this kind of intimidation from Yes a activist. Fraser Nelson and I have one thing in common, we were both born in Inverness.
If YES wins then I really feel that all the elements are there for the creation of a fascist state. Simmering resentment & hatred at a strawman (the English / tories / FEB's), the cult of the Leader, the flying squads, the revenge policies, control of the legislature, intolerance of criticism, fantasy policies, "yes men" clapping the leader, slapping down of journalists, disrespect towards people.
If I lived up there, I would not be waiting for the referendum. I would have gone already.
But Mrs C in the White Paper it has been set out what the iScotland defence forces will be. I am merely exploring where the people will come from. If HMtQ cannot direct them to serve I think there might be a shortfall.
Mr Llama, people are loyal to their paypackets. They have to be, you cannot eat ideals nor feed your family with them.
This might be the best thing that could ever happen to Scotland, but how come no one else in the world seems to see it that way?. Whatever view the YES campaign has, it is not a balanced one, it cannot be because only victory matters. But surely you must acknowledge that it is a bit odd that only one small group with a vested interest is right compared to a much larger group of well-informed largely impartial people who say the opposite.
I bet plenty of Catalans, Slovakians, etc. see it that way. You are correct that a large group of folks with vested interests (those successful under present arrangements) and access to the media don't want this change. For the SNP and various fellow travellers it's a cause; for most of the high profile better togetherers it's better together for their income or party. That doesn't mean either side is necessarily correct in asserting what is better for Scotland.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
malc always enjoys a good pint after a hard day's marching
Did plenty of marching round shops Alan for sure. Sent out by the boss.
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Between them my relatives in the Irish Defence Forces have served in the Congo, Cyprus, Lebanon and Eritrea and currently Irish soldiers are deployed in Syria (thankfully none of my relatives are out there or due out there!).
Stay with the whatever the British Army becomes, and there's an opportunity to travel the globe, and possibly see some action or do something useful (which lets face it, is what soldiers train to do).
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Sounds better for your life expectancy/family life.
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
Actually, my Uni subjects were Physics, Applied Maths and Computer Science.
One of the things that the Physics dept taught was that you should form a hypothesis based on impressions and prima-facie evidence and then conduct experiments to prove or disprove your hypothesis.
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35, unbelievable.
Wetherspoons always seem to keep their beer well and their prices down.
£2.35 for a pint sized Arran Blonde also sounds good value!
Stand by for a shitstorm, beeboid interviewer saying she came across widespread intimidation from Yes during the campaign. Interviewing reid and Murphy.
Like the planned Nat 'Intimidation' Parades on Election Day.
Those are utterly disgusting, IMO.
And you don't know anything about them except that there will be facepaint! and balloons!!
Rob is a scaredy fanny Carnyx, he imagines that face painting which takes place every week at fairs etc is disgusting. What a serious halfwitted jessie erchie.
Malcontent, we can all imagine the attractions at fairs that you attend.
Braveheart facepainting, displays of intimidation marching, Wickerman burning etc
Hysteria doesn't have to be on one's own behalf, and yours seems entirely based on cockeyed media reports and vestigial knowledge. Try some objective analysis for yourself: how many verifiable reports of assaults, broken windows, threats of violence and acts of vandalism connected to the referendum can you find?
It never occurred to me to count incidents so I could not say. I have a lot of friends in Scotland and I go by what they tell me. I have known them for 30+ years and I trust them.
The media and bloggers and journos on the ground report a lot of the same. Salmond's press conferences have an air of the surreal about them as he ignores facts he dislikes and questions he does not want to hear. The whole thing conveys an impression and a bad one at that.
People's feeling and moods are often set by impressions rather than facts - a technique that YES seems to be employing to a spectacular advantage - but it is a techniques that works both ways and it paints YES as nasty and intolerant.
Obviously you disagree with me and I have no issues with that. All I am doing is responding with how I feel, how what I see affects me and why I worry for those who, unlike me, are caught in the middle of this.
YES might be right Mr Divvie. This might be the best thing that could ever happen to Scotland, but how come no one else in the world seems to see it that way?. Whatever view the YES campaign has, it is not a balanced one, it cannot be because only victory matters. But surely you must acknowledge that it is a bit odd that only one small group with a vested interest is right compared to a much larger group of well-informed largely impartial people who say the opposite.
Salmond does not even offer counter-arguments to those he disagrees with, he merely brushes their arguments aside as irrelevant or not worth discussing. Does that really not worry you?
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
"So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions"
that;s just so funny in its own way.
the past immutable.
Even the present isn't immutable. Sit six people in a room and ask them to write a side of A4 about what is going on and no-one will be identical, and that's with the same apparent 'facts' in front of them. How much worse with the past. As a series of events it may appear fixed to one person but is wide open to interpretation. Politicians, economists, authors and even historians have rich field days.
I think this may be one of those votes where you can't draw easy conclusions about who higher turnout favours ie. You may find one side favoured as turnout rises from 60-70℅, which may then reverse as turnout approaches 80℅, and go back to the former as it goes even higher etc
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35 a pint , unbelievable.
Sounds like you've had a few judging by your comments. Are you questioning the accuracy of the Survation Poll and if so, on what grounds?
malc always enjoys a good pint after a hard day's marching
Did plenty of marching round shops Alan for sure. Sent out by the boss.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Just over 5 hours on the streets of Dundee today handing out Labour material for a no vote. Their Indyref bus was in town and formed the base for operations. Roughly 50-60 people helping out including those on the bus who included Sarwar.
The day involved a vaguely amusing and well behaved confrontation with a Yes march and a battle for the poor Dundee shoppers with competing stalls set up by the SNP and the Socialist Workers.
Trying my best to be objective I would say the following:
1. We were clearly outnumbered by the activists for Yes, probably about 3:2. 2. Labour party material was received a lot better than BT material might have been. Quite a number of people volunteered that we were finally handing out the right material and it was about time. 3. Very significant numbers of No supporters had already voted. 4. Quite a number of people felt intimidated by the Yes demonstrators and clapped me and others on our backs for our "courage". I have to say that I did not face any personal intimidation all day and think that the fear of this is completely out of synch with the reality. 5. It is hard to underestimate the scale of this. By the middle of the afternoon the majority of shoppers in Dundee were wearing badges for one side or the other with the odd comedian wearing both. I have never seen a political campaign that has got close to this intensity. 6. Having spoken myself to several hundred people today it is difficult to give any more than a vague impression of the overall picture. My impression is that whilst Yes had the edge it was genuinely close. I spoke to over 200 people who were either voting or had voted no myself. 7. I am ticked off that we have not been doing more of this earlier and that we have given the streets of Dundee to Yes too often. Those who were inclined to vote no were genuinely pleased we were there and making the effort.
This week is now all about GOTV. It is going to be busy.
Thank you for everything you're doing. Your sanity is a blessed relief after yet another day of inane jabbering from your Ayrshire compatriot.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Between them my relatives in the Irish Defence Forces have served in the Congo, Cyprus, Lebanon and Eritrea and currently Irish soldiers are deployed in Syria (thankfully none of my relatives are out there or due out there!).
Watcher has done Tour of Duty on his erchie with a full clip of super lager and in 3D.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Between them my relatives in the Irish Defence Forces have served in the Congo, Cyprus, Lebanon and Eritrea and currently Irish soldiers are deployed in Syria (thankfully none of my relatives are out there or due out there!).
Watcher has done Tour of Duty on his erchie with a full clip of super lager and in 3D.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Christ, has a journalist of that experience really leaked a poll so clumsily? And a Yes lead of 53/54% would put a lot of cats amongst a lot of pidgeons!
Suspect he means "A Yougov poll" but that would also seem an odd error for him to make. Plus, would you call the YG lead "a similar margin"?
'For every negativity from Bob Dudley of BP there is the positivity of Tim Martin of Wetherspoons.'
So the oil industry is f****d but we'll still sell you cheap curry and beer.
More unemployed = More customers
Exactly. Wetherspoons are hardly going to piss off their key demographic by coming out against independence. By the same token I'm astonished ANY supermarket has admitted prices will rise, not that one or two have decided to remain silent.
Wetherspoons are great , had nice Arran Blonde today , only 2.35, unbelievable.
Wetherspoons always seem to keep their beer well and their prices down.
£2.35 for a pint sized Arran Blonde also sounds good value!
It was very nice and no more than you pay for a bottle in supermarkets. A really nice beer. Wetherspoons always have a great selection of real ales at bargain prices. Shows what a rip off lots of places are.
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
Actually, my Uni subjects were Physics, Applied Maths and Computer Science.
One of the things that the Physics dept taught was that you should form a hypothesis based on impressions and prima-facie evidence and then conduct experiments to prove or disprove your hypothesis.
My hypothesis is as stated above.
Prima facie means what appears to be evident from the available facts. You don't seem to have reached that stage yet, but when you do, I'll await the results of your subsequent experiments with interest.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
I wish we could have some expectation and anti-hype management: why did RobD have to pump it up by proclaiming 8+ for yes? That would be sensational. But to be honest 1% lead for Yes at this stage would be a sensation.
So this could be one of those tasty dilemmas where it's the battle of the polls. Accepting Mike's caveat about not discarding a poll simply because you don't happen to like it, I know which of those two pollsters, and which of those two methodologies, I trust more.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Christ, has a journalist of that experience really leaked a poll so clumsily? And a Yes lead of 53/54% would put a lot of cats amongst a lot of pidgeons!
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Christ, has a journalist of that experience really leaked a poll so clumsily? And a Yes lead of 53/54% would put a lot of cats amongst a lot of pidgeons!
It could be an ICM poll for the Telegraph
True, but no tweet about it from them or the Telegraph. Even if it their poll surely they meant to announce it a bit more officially/dramatically than another article making an off-hand reference to it.
Just over 5 hours on the streets of Dundee today handing out Labour material for a no vote. Their Indyref bus was in town and formed the base for operations. Roughly 50-60 people helping out including those on the bus who included Sarwar.
The day involved a vaguely amusing and well behaved confrontation with a Yes march and a battle for the poor Dundee shoppers with competing stalls set up by the SNP and the Socialist Workers.
Trying my best to be objective I would say the following:
1. We were clearly outnumbered by the activists for Yes, probably about 3:2. 2. Labour party material was received a lot better than BT material might have been. Quite a number of people volunteered that we were finally handing out the right material and it was about time. 3. Very significant numbers of No supporters had already voted. 4. Quite a number of people felt intimidated by the Yes demonstrators and clapped me and others on our backs for our "courage". I have to say that I did not face any personal intimidation all day and think that the fear of this is completely out of synch with the reality. 5. It is hard to underestimate the scale of this. By the middle of the afternoon the majority of shoppers in Dundee were wearing badges for one side or the other with the odd comedian wearing both. I have never seen a political campaign that has got close to this intensity. 6. Having spoken myself to several hundred people today it is difficult to give any more than a vague impression of the overall picture. My impression is that whilst Yes had the edge it was genuinely close. I spoke to over 200 people who were either voting or had voted no myself. 7. I am ticked off that we have not been doing more of this earlier and that we have given the streets of Dundee to Yes too often. Those who were inclined to vote no were genuinely pleased we were there and making the effort.
This week is now all about GOTV. It is going to be busy.
Thank you for everything you're doing. Your sanity is a blessed relief after yet another day of inane jabbering from your Ayrshire compatriot.
Much as it is admirable that David goes out in Dundee to bat for the losers of BT , it is a real waste of his time and talents. After suitable rehabilitation education he will be a valuable asset in an independent Scotland. I do not believe he is a lost cause unlike BT.
So no facts or evidence, just feelings, impressions and 2nd hand anecdotes? Good job you're not a scientist.
Actually, my Uni subjects were Physics, Applied Maths and Computer Science.
One of the things that the Physics dept taught was that you should form a hypothesis based on impressions and prima-facie evidence and then conduct experiments to prove or disprove your hypothesis.
My hypothesis is as stated above.
Prima facie means what appears to be evident from the available facts. You don't seem to have reached that stage yet, but when you do, I'll await the results of your subsequent experiments with interest.
In other words she just talks bollocks and lots of it.
Key paragraph: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored. Cameron is right to warn the Scots that the leap from the precipice is not a bungee jump.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Christ, has a journalist of that experience really leaked a poll so clumsily? And a Yes lead of 53/54% would put a lot of cats amongst a lot of pidgeons!
It could be an ICM poll for the Telegraph
True, but no tweet about it from them or the Telegraph. Even if it their poll surely they meant to announce it a bit more officially/dramatically than another article making an off-hand reference to it.
Yeah, you would have thought a poll with Yes ahead around 8 points, would be greeted with more fanfare, but the Times did something similar a few days ago, mentioning the new poll in one sentence in a huge editorial
Join the Defence Force and stay at home, occasionally peering at Spanish trawlers plundering fish stocks, through binoculars.
Between them my relatives in the Irish Defence Forces have served in the Congo, Cyprus, Lebanon and Eritrea and currently Irish soldiers are deployed in Syria (thankfully none of my relatives are out there or due out there!).
Watcher has done Tour of Duty on his erchie with a full clip of super lager and in 3D.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
I wish we could have some expectation and anti-hype management: why did RobD have to pump it up by proclaiming 8+ for yes? That would be sensational. But to be honest 1% lead for Yes at this stage would be a sensation.
So this could be one of those tasty dilemmas where it's the battle of the polls. Accepting Mike's caveat about not discarding a poll simply because you don't happen to like it, I know which of those two pollsters, and which of those two methodologies, I trust more.
I wasn't pumping, that is what the article said, a poll showing the same lead, but for yes.
This Ancona piece doesn't make any sense. He doesn't just mention it in passing but as an afterthought to the Survation poll. I wonder if he's talking about some hypothetical poll and expressed himself clumsily?
Key paragraph: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored. Cameron is right to warn the Scots that the leap from the precipice is not a bungee jump.
This Ancona piece doesn't make any sense. He doesn't just mention it in passing but as an afterthought to the Survation poll. I wonder if he's talking about some hypothetical poll and expressed himself clumsily?
I see what you mean but he named a company specifically. That doesn't add up to a hypothetical
Bugger me, that's twice in a few days I've been the first person on the interweb to spot an Indyref poll
Someone spotted it over two hours ago
From the comments
HansMartinMezger • 2 hours ago
"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ?
On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this:
"The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Could Matthew D'A please provide a link to this poll. The ICM website shows that its last poll on this issue was yesterday, and showed No 51 / Yes 49.
Bugger me, that's twice in a few days I've been the first person on the interweb to spot an Indyref poll
Someone spotted it over two hours ago
From the comments
HansMartinMezger • 2 hours ago
"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ?
On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this:
"The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Could Matthew D'A please provide a link to this poll. The ICM website shows that its last poll on this issue was yesterday, and showed No 51 / Yes 49.
It's even stranger if an article was posted, pulled and then reworded as it has been.
'"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored." Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ? On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."'
'"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored." Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ? On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."'
'"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored." Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ? On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."'
'"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored." Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ? On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."'
I WAS THE FIRST TO SPOT THAT!!!!!!
Fair does, I hesitated for a bit of formatting.
Haha just kidding, as if it matters enough to boast about!
Its worth noting that the Sunday Telegraph who D'Ancona's piece will appear in does use ICM for polling so perhaps they've got a poll under wraps for tonight tomorrow and D'Ancona's piece is the first sign of it.
Assuming this ICM poll exists, imagine the pandemonium it would have caused if it had first been revealed by the Telegraph's front page after the 3 scheduled polls had come out today.
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
Christ, has a journalist of that experience really leaked a poll so clumsily? And a Yes lead of 53/54% would put a lot of cats amongst a lot of pidgeons!
Suspect he means "A Yougov poll" but that would also seem an odd error for him to make. Plus, would you call the YG lead "a similar margin"?
I'd guess he meant to say 'smaller' margin and trailing instead of leading.
Interesting and thoughtful comment, reported on the BBC's website.
In Germany's centre-left daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung, Christian Zaschke accuses Westminster of focusing on the financial impact instead of highlighting the "advantages of a union that has existed for 300 years... the political establishment in London has been shocked into realising that it has to present its arguments in a completely different way: positive, empathetic, emotional. It is quite possible that it is already too late."
I agree. Trying to frighten people was never going to be a good idea. Then offering apparently panic driven, back of an envelope Devo-Max plans was worse.
Comments
Wrong. As a believer in facts rather than opinions I'm sure you'll be interested to know that the last ONS unemployment data showed 6.3% of people were unemployed in England and 6.4% of people were unemployed in Scotland.
I fear the SNP have been too busy with their campaigning and forgotten all about the public they are meant to be serving.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/publications/re-reference-tables.html?edition=tcm:77-319703
The day involved a vaguely amusing and well behaved confrontation with a Yes march and a battle for the poor Dundee shoppers with competing stalls set up by the SNP and the Socialist Workers.
Trying my best to be objective I would say the following:
1. We were clearly outnumbered by the activists for Yes, probably about 3:2.
2. Labour party material was received a lot better than BT material might have been. Quite a number of people volunteered that we were finally handing out the right material and it was about time.
3. Very significant numbers of No supporters had already voted.
4. Quite a number of people felt intimidated by the Yes demonstrators and clapped me and others on our backs for our "courage". I have to say that I did not face any personal intimidation all day and think that the fear of this is completely out of synch with the reality.
5. It is hard to underestimate the scale of this. By the middle of the afternoon the majority of shoppers in Dundee were wearing badges for one side or the other with the odd comedian wearing both. I have never seen a political campaign that has got close to this intensity.
6. Having spoken myself to several hundred people today it is difficult to give any more than a vague impression of the overall picture. My impression is that whilst Yes had the edge it was genuinely close. I spoke to over 200 people who were either voting or had voted no myself.
7. I am ticked off that we have not been doing more of this earlier and that we have given the streets of Dundee to Yes too often. Those who were inclined to vote no were genuinely pleased we were there and making the effort.
This week is now all about GOTV. It is going to be busy.
Braveheart facepainting, displays of intimidation marching, Wickerman burning etc
( Loyal Orange Lodge )
One of the things that the Physics dept taught was that you should form a hypothesis based on impressions and prima-facie evidence and then conduct experiments to prove or disprove your hypothesis.
My hypothesis is as stated above.
£2.35 for a pint sized Arran Blonde also sounds good value!
" iirc didn't you follow OGH in a couple of weeks ago with Ladbrokes' two pronged NO/<80% turnout bet?"
Certainly did, PfP, but it was partly as a hedge.
The No bit looks OK, as it has done throughout, but I reckon the 80% will fail. That was less obvious at the time.
Edited extra bit: blasphemy, Miss C!
I think the Telegraph have commisssioned an ICM poll and if I read this piece correctly, YES ARE AHEAD BY AROUND 8 POINTS
The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11092495/Whatever-happens-nothing-will-ever-be-the-same-again.html
Your sanity is a blessed relief after yet another day of inane jabbering from your Ayrshire compatriot.
Suspect he means "A Yougov poll" but that would also seem an odd error for him to make. Plus, would you call the YG lead "a similar margin"?
I wish we could have some expectation and anti-hype management: why did RobD have to pump it up by proclaiming 8+ for yes? That would be sensational. But to be honest 1% lead for Yes at this stage would be a sensation.
So this could be one of those tasty dilemmas where it's the battle of the polls. Accepting Mike's caveat about not discarding a poll simply because you don't happen to like it, I know which of those two pollsters, and which of those two methodologies, I trust more.
Carry on like this and you’ll earn your ‘man on the spot’ epithet ; )
Please tell me ICM are not coming out with a large Yes lead. This would be sensational.
Key paragraph: "The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign. But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored. Cameron is right to warn the Scots that the leap from the precipice is not a bungee jump.
Given its significance, it seems inconceivable such a poll could be announced like this.
It seems equally inconceivable a slip of this magnitude could have got past the sub.
From the comments
HansMartinMezger • 2 hours ago
"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ?
On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this:
"The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Could Matthew D'A please provide a link to this poll. The ICM website shows that its last poll on this issue was yesterday, and showed No 51 / Yes 49.
Its a strangely written article by Ancona, almost reads like the poll results were added after the rest of it was written.
'"That said, our ICM poll today, which shows support for independence now eight points ahead, cannot, and will not, be ignored."
Should we therefore ignore the Survation poll, also from today (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... that tells the exact opposite story - No 54 / Yes 46 ?
On edit ... interesting to see that the article was yanked almost immediately after I posted this, before being corrected and replaced with this:
"The Survation poll this weekend put Unionists eight points ahead of the Yes campaign.But an ICM poll, which shows support for independence leading by a similar margin, cannot, and will not, be ignored."'
Are we expecting an ICM poll tonight?
Other polls coming tonight
Opinium at 8pm and Panelbase at 9.30pm
Anyway, it's a devastating poll for the No side. Yes could not only win, but win handsomely on Thursday.
I'd guess he meant to say 'smaller' margin and trailing instead of leading.
Edit-Maybe not.
ICM online poll for the S Telegraph has YES 8% ahead - the biggest seen from any pollster. Yesterday ICM phone poll had NO 2% ahead
In Germany's centre-left daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung, Christian Zaschke accuses Westminster of focusing on the financial impact instead of highlighting the "advantages of a union that has existed for 300 years... the political establishment in London has been shocked into realising that it has to present its arguments in a completely different way: positive, empathetic, emotional. It is quite possible that it is already too late."
I agree. Trying to frighten people was never going to be a good idea. Then offering apparently panic driven, back of an envelope Devo-Max plans was worse.