1. Shadsy's 5/6 on SNP over 7.5 seats in 2015 looks a bit of a snip, n'est ce pas?
2. The Antifrank Gambit - betting on the SNP to win Westminster seats at long odds - is looking better than ever.
Yep, that Ladbrokes offering that the SNP wins > 7.5 seats seats at next May's GE has long appeared to be one of the very best value political bets around even if, at slightly odds-on, it's hardly the sexiest. The referendum makes it particularly attractive since, as someone pointed out on PB earlier today, the SNP look likely to benefit very significantly in terms of support whether there is a YES or NO vote. I've loaded on at various times, but DYOR.
If a Yes vote, I would expect SNP gains. If a No vote is less certain. The SNP collapsed after the 78 referendum.
Firstly, we wouldn't likely be in this mess if the Tories hadn't treated Scotland as some sort of crash-test dummy centre on the Poll Tax thus wiping out any remaining Scottish support for them in the process. That's led to a very divided country in the first place. Secondly I'm angry with the refusal to allow a Devo-Max option. A lot of sensible Scots who justifiably feel excluded from the current situation may well have voted for that instead of independence. That's got to be down to Cameron and co.
The Poll Tax was introduced in Scotland first because Scottish MPs begged for it. They genuinely thought it was a good idea and would be popular.
Devo-max could not be on the ballot. Cameron can't change the laws of physics. This was discussed in length at the time
I find it incredible that not a small amount of support for Scottish independence, in some quarters, seems to be born of a desire to sock it to Maggie. A few even seem to regret "(she's) not still alive to see it". E.g. Irvine Welsh.
Yes, she made a monumental blunder on introducing the poll tax "early" in Scotland (I believe in good faith) but the lady left office almost 25 years ago. She's now passed on, and into the history books.
Move on.
By the same token it would probably help if Thatcherophiles stopped waxing nostalgically lyrical about her greatness, no shortage of which is expressed on here.
Move on.
Can you provide a citation of where (what you call) "Thatcherophiles" on this forum have waxed lyrical about her greatness in the context of this referendum please?
As I said below, what's said here is irrelevant to the referendum. However I don't think any of the few remaining 'Nats' gives much of a toss about socking it to Maggie, certainly not me. Labour voters in Glasgow estates otoh...
Off on a slight tangent. Would Scotland be a net contributor or recipient if it was in the EU as an independent country?
IIRC the latest GERS report calculates Scotland's contribution as part of the UK as a net £450 million, BUT, as an independent nation CAP support , even at the level of the least favoured current EU member would rise approx £260 million to offset this.
Firstly, we wouldn't likely be in this mess if the Tories hadn't treated Scotland as some sort of crash-test dummy centre on the Poll Tax thus wiping out any remaining Scottish support for them in the process. That's led to a very divided country in the first place. Secondly I'm angry with the refusal to allow a Devo-Max option. A lot of sensible Scots who justifiably feel excluded from the current situation may well have voted for that instead of independence. That's got to be down to Cameron and co.
The Poll Tax was introduced in Scotland first because Scottish MPs begged for it. They genuinely thought it was a good idea and would be popular.
Devo-max could not be on the ballot. Cameron can't change the laws of physics. This was discussed in length at the time
I find it incredible that not a small amount of support for Scottish independence, in some quarters, seems to be born of a desire to sock it to Maggie. A few even seem to regret "(she's) not still alive to see it". E.g. Irvine Welsh.
Yes, she made a monumental blunder on introducing the poll tax "early" in Scotland (I believe in good faith) but the lady left office almost 25 years ago. She's now passed on, and into the history books.
Move on.
By the same token it would probably help if Thatcherophiles stopped waxing nostalgically lyrical about her greatness, no shortage of which is expressed on here.
Move on.
Can you provide a citation of where (what you call) "Thatcherophiles" on this forum have waxed lyrical about her greatness in the context of this referendum please?
As I said below, what's said here is irrelevant to the referendum. However I don't think any of the few remaining 'Nats' gives much of a toss about socking it to Maggie, certainly not me. Labour voters in Glasgow estates otoh...
Ah, you can't provide any such citations. Thought not.
I think we're the #1 by a country mile. I'm still going to think that, with or without the Scots.
People all over the globe are fooled into thinking such nonsense. It's basically a ruse foisted on the plebs to cement the positions of the powerful. Keep telling the plebs their traditions are unique (which is inevitably true to some extent) and their freedoms are unique (ditto) and they'll look abroad and say, crikey, those foreign chaps don't have some of our traditions and our freedoms so we're superior, not realising that the foreigners have their own unique traditions and freedoms in most cases. It's this kind of thinking which lumbers us with a substandard NHS which is considered a national treasure and so on. This uncritical stance allows the political class to get away with all kinds of hijinks.
I have to say I am not especially exercised about the question of Scottish independence one way or another. However, with the present brutal examples of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and now France to concentrate my mind, there are no circumstances under which I would be willing to advocate, approve or vote for any political candidate who advocated or approved of a currency union with an independent Scotland. If they leave the UK, as far as I am concerned they leave the pound as well.
It should also be noted that Scotland, by leaving the UK, would leave the EU - in fact, it might even theoretically do that under Devomax, as happened with Greenland - and it would have to reapply under Article 49, a process that usually takes around 5 years. I would also be opposed to any concessions to Scotland to allow it to reapply quickly (not that my view matters much, but if I feel that way how would the Spanish, French, Belgians or Italians feel given the separatist movements they have to deal with)?
So to see Alex Salmond behaving as though these are minor matters that will fall into line as soon as he gets his way is rather concerning. If people are silly enough to fall for it, that's their problem.
Off on a slight tangent. Would Scotland be a net contributor or recipient if it was in the EU as an independent country?
IIRC the latest GERS report calculates Scotland's contribution as part of the UK as a net £450 million, BUT, as an independent nation CAP support , even at the level of the least favoured current EU member would rise approx £260 million to offset this.
Paul Burley (@pixelstylist) 05/09/2014 16:50 BBC's top complaints over the last month. And I thought those Doctor Who lesbian lizard haters were a fierce bunch. pic.twitter.com/NaZFuJWR85
Off on a slight tangent. Would Scotland be a net contributor or recipient if it was in the EU as an independent country?
IIRC the latest GERS report calculates Scotland's contribution as part of the UK as a net £450 million, BUT, as an independent nation CAP support , even at the level of the least favoured current EU member would rise approx £260 million to offset this.
Google "EU convergence payments row" for details
By that logic - rUk will have to increase our contributions - well until we leave...
@SeanT - putting the blame of a possible split of the UK on Labour is ridiculous.
Look in the mirror! The Conservative party is actually the 'Conservative and Unionist' party and yet they have NO representation in Scotland. When will the Tories on here understand that they are the key architects of this? If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne....
@SeanT - putting the blame of a possible split of the UK on Labour is ridiculous.
Look in the mirror! The Conservative party is actually the 'Conservative and Unionist' party and yet they have NO representation in Scotland. When will the Tories on here understand that they are the key architects of this? If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne....
Rofl
maybe you should read up on scottish politics before you make a daft post like that.
@SeanT - putting the blame of a possible split of the UK on Labour is ridiculous.
Look in the mirror! The Conservative party is actually the 'Conservative and Unionist' party and yet they have NO representation in Scotland. When will the Tories on here understand that they are the key architects of this? If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne....
Rofl
maybe you should read up on scottish politics before you make a daft post like that.
Turning point of the campaign - equating BetterTogether with the Tories - masterstroke by Salmond (yet with hindsight an obvious thing to do)
@SeanT - putting the blame of a possible split of the UK on Labour is ridiculous.
Look in the mirror! The Conservative party is actually the 'Conservative and Unionist' party and yet they have NO representation in Scotland. When will the Tories on here understand that they are the key architects of this? If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne....
Rofl
maybe you should read up on scottish politics before you make a daft post like that.
Turning point of the campaign - equating BetterTogether with the Tories - masterstroke by Salmond (yet with hindsight an obvious thing to do)
well if that's the sumof your thoughts, best leave it before you make a total tit of yourself.
Ah, you can't provide any such citations. Thought not.
Since 'her greatness in the context of this referendum' is your construction, why would I need to provide a citation?
Nonsense. I pointed out that a number of Scottish nationalists were citing Thatcher yesterday - when the news of the YES lead came out - and how they wished she was still alive to see it. I even gave a name of one, Irvine Welsh, as an example.
You said: "it would probably help if Thatcherophiles stopped waxing nostalgically lyrical about her greatness, no shortage of which is expressed on here. Move on."
I asked you to provide an example of anyone extolling Thatcher on here on this referendum, yet you've failed to provide a single example of anyone doing it. Despite saying there was "no shortage".
If one were, hypothetically, to think about where a surge for the SNP in current Labour and LibDem Westminster seats might occur in 2015, which of these would be the most promising for the SNP?
- The Aberdeen area (for example, Aberdeen W & Kincardine, Aberdeen N, Aberdeen S)
- The Edinburgh seats, some of which are currently split four ways (Edinburgh W, Edinburgh S)
- Labour strongholds such as Midlothian and Livingston
Edit: Note that these are all seats which could fall to the SNP on a swing of between 11 and 14% from 2010
Ah, you can't provide any such citations. Thought not.
Since 'her greatness in the context of this referendum' is your construction, why would I need to provide a citation?
Nonsense. I pointed out that a number of Scottish nationalists were citing Thatcher yesterday - when the news of the YES lead came out - and how they wished she was still alive to see it. I even gave a name of one, Irvine Welsh, as an example.
You said: "it would probably help if Thatcherophiles stopped waxing nostalgically lyrical about her greatness, no shortage of which is expressed on here. Move on."
I asked you to provide an example of anyone extolling Thatcher on here on this referendum, yet you've failed to provide a single example of anyone doing it. Despite saying there was "no shortage".
Stop embarrassing yourself.
You're getting a bit shouty, not to mention pompous.
Point out where I mentioned the extolling of Thatcher in the context of 'this referendum' before you burst into tears.
Would make it more fun if they declare council by council. Say, then, Aberdeenshire, supposedly a Unionist area, goes NO 51-49. This would mean YES probably has the edge. If 55-45, a long night? 70-30, we can all go to sleep.
What would be the swing/bellweather councils? Maybe Edinburgh - an SNP presence at Holyrood but with significant Labour, LD and Tory support? Or Kilmarnock (East Ayrshire)?
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
well put it this way divvie I don't think anyone will be moving it without pemission or an armoured Land Rover.
Perhaps if the OO insist that it's on a traditional route..
I think they'd prefer their new one on Princes Street
I think they're being kept away from Princes Street. The douce burghers of Edinburgh & their wives shopping in Jenners must be protected from such things.
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Ikechi Anya of Scotland has an interesting background
Early life[edit]
Anya was born in Glasgow, Scotland and grew up in the Castlemilk area as a devout Christian and supports Rangers Football Club.[1] His father is a Nigerian research scientist, and his mother a Romanian economist. The couple met while studying at the universities in Bucharest. After finishing their studies his parents moved to Scotland in the late 1980s for his father to obtain his doctorate in metallurgy. He later on attended Gosford Hill Secondary School
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Murdoch sock puppet
I am fairly sure it wasn't someone called, "Murdoch Sock Puppet" who made the suggestion, Mr. Brooke. I rather think I would remember a poster of that name
The Social Democrats, Greens and Left Party clocked up 47.1 percentage points with the current government earning 38.5 in the poll carried out by Novus for Sveriges Radio news bulletin Ekot.
A similar poll done by Novus in August gave the opposition a bigger lead of 11.2. Now the Alliance appears to have closed the gap a little by 2.6 percentage points, with a week of heavy campaigning ahead.
Meanwhile, the new poll backs up what other findings have suggested that the Sweden Democrats will likely hold the balance of power. The party is supported by 10.4 percent of the voting public according to Novus, its highest figure since opinion polls started in 2008.
UKIPs support is pretty evenly distributed through all classes if I remember the polling correctly
But that does not fit the narrative, Far better to say that UKIP support comes from the poor and those "left behind" (read uneducated).
Total boolox of course.
This is a pretty stupid thing to say in a thread where it has been shown with evidence that UKIP are the most working class party.
Given the light of evidence, are you prepared to change your conclusions to fit the facts: that it's your Tory analysis that is the false narrative?
Somehow, I doubt it. It will be the same immunity to reality that have Tories believe Theresa May is a good home secretary even after she rides roughshod over civil liberties, has huge backlogs of missing immigrants lost, needs the BBC to find out immigration test centres read the answers aloud to immigrants, takes days to stop riots in most our major cities, hands ancient British liberties voluntarily to Brussels, sees massive lines at Heathrow and manages a whopping 5% progress towards the net immigration target.
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Like you I wish that it were true but precedent - such as the case of the Czech Republic and Solvakia - sghows that both successor states would be considered to remain party to all treaties signed by the original state as a matter of course.
There is now also a Vienna Convention on Successor States in respect of treaties although the UK is not a signatory.
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Murdoch sock puppet
I am fairly sure it wasn't someone called, "Murdoch Sock Puppet" who made the suggestion, Mr. Brooke. I rather think I would remember a poster of that name
pah Mr L
Blair, Cameron, Salmond and now Farage genuflect and kiss Rupert's ring
'If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne...'
No was doing fine until Ed went to Scotland last week & then it quickly went pear shaped.
But it was Cameron that framed the referendum as a divisive "all or nothing" affair. He refused to allow the most popular option - devomax - to appear on the ballot paper. Voters are faced with either no - the staus quo - or yes - independence , which can, of course, be presented in any way you like as no one really knows how it would work in practice. The yes side has a far easier sell as they can simply promise that all the problems the voters face will magically disappear if yes wins. No, on the other hand, has been left in the absurd position of asking people to vote for the stauts quo but at the same time assuring them that really it isn't the staus quo because all parties are agreed on offereing the Scots...er...something which will probably be "devomax".
If all the unionists are in fact offering devomax why in heaven's name was it not on the ballot? All this divisiveness and national angst could have been avoided if it had been. And for that Camerin must bear the blame - if the union is lost history will hold him responsible, and rightly so.
Murali S I would think David Mundell MP and Ian Duncan MEP and 15 Scottish Tory MSPs and numerous Scottish Tory councillors would have something to say about that!
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Murdoch sock puppet
I am fairly sure it wasn't someone called, "Murdoch Sock Puppet" who made the suggestion, Mr. Brooke. I rather think I would remember a poster of that name
@faisalislam: So a majority (51%) of Scots acc to @Yougov now believe Salmond, that the three unionists parties are "bluffing" on currency union. Key.
Any party dumb enough to give an independent Scotland the currency union that Salmond demands would be setting themselves up for the mother of all kickings at the next major election. What do Yes want? Cameron, Clegg, and Miliband to sign a declaration in their own blood?
Wouldn't it be great if we ALL had to re-apply for EU membership in the wake of Devomax? Should we just not bother? Say the dog ate the form? Lost in the post?
Some months ago someone, and I forget who, suggested that if Scotland voted to leave then all treaties signed by the UK since 1707 would lapse and SeanT said Cameron would have to resign. That struck me at the time as being a cracking deal - we get rid of the Scots, the EU, and Cameron all in one go. My only regret was that there was no way I could vote for it, oh and it did not include the Welsh.
Like you I wish that it were true but precedent - such as the case of the Czech Republic and Solvakia - sghows that both successor states would be considered to remain party to all treaties signed by the original state as a matter of course.
There is now also a Vienna Convention on Successor States in respect of treaties although the UK is not a signatory.
Only the rUK would be considered a successor state.
I've just seen Salmond looking and sounding very smug about Osborne's intervention and who can blame him......
It's the marketing equivalent of Stella after six months of its 'refreshingly expensive' campaign adding the strapline 'available half price from Lidl'
I've just seen Salmond looking and sounding very smug about Osborne's intervention and who can blame him......
It's the marketing equivalent of Stella after six months of its 'refreshingly expensive' campaign adding the strapline 'available half price from Lidl'
I've just seen Salmond looking and sounding very smug about Osborne's intervention and who can blame him......
It's the marketing equivalent of Stella after six months of its 'refreshingly expensive' campaign adding the strapline 'available half price from Lidl'
Come back Charles and Maurice.
Your Country Needs YOU!!
at this rate Roger things will get so bad that Ian Murray might have to get off his arse and do something
@Briandamge64: How ironic that of the 11 guys deemed worthy of representing scotland tonight only 1 is eligible to vote in the referendum. Very democratic
"....Ian Murray might have to get off his arse and do something"
I understand he's been standing in for Jim Murphy on his 100 town tour. They're probably on a triumphal march down Princess St at this very moment....
(OT I thought LuckyGuys comment "Utter Nonsense" in reply to my last post was a touch harsh until I read your "Do you know where Scotland is?" to Murali)
Also from Andrew Neil 'Strong indications from Murdoch and Salmond sources that Scottish Sun will back independence, despite protestations of London Sun Editor'
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Also from Andrew Neil 'Strong indications from Murdoch and Salmond sources that Scottish Sun will back independence, despite protestations of London Sun Editor'
Though could backfire with Scottish Labour voters
that's been on the cards for some time.
I suppose the question that poses is how long will UK politicians put up with the Murdochs before they hit back ?
We've had a lot of what if's on this thread ,so I will join in ;-)
Scotland leaving the union,won't that set off the EU referendum lock ? it's a massive change to our membership of the EU,we joined as the GB & NI and in a couple of weeks time part of it could have split.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
The more intelligent Yessers know it's not a bluff, but they have to convince just enough of the stupid ones to get them over the line, and then worry about the consequences afterwards.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Send Boris to Glasgow on a day trip. That'll do the job.
FWIW I think Cameron approached this in just the same way as he approached Lansley's health "reforms" - he didn't give it any serious thought, was only vaugely aware of the detail and coiuld not be bothered with it until it became clear that it was a potential disaster.
No serious thought can have been given to the strategy behind this referendum - it is an absolute gift to the SNP. And it did not have to be like this.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
All those saying that Dave and George will get the blame if Yes wins, will you concede that Dave and George will get a boost it Scotland votes No?
With a very healthy majority for No, why not. I'll lay off them (for a day or so). If No just limps over the line, I don't think a boost would really be warranted.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
LOL - and the divine right of kings of course.
Steady on, Mr. Brooke, we don't want to drag Her Majesty into the sordid business of politics.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
Edinburgh to be made into a Butlin's, with a water flume down The Royal Mile.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
LOL - and the divine right of kings of course.
Steady on, Mr. Brooke, we don't want to drag Her Majesty into the sordid business of politics.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
LOL - and the divine right of kings of course.
Hmm, thing was it was that foreign dynasty the Stuarts who were big on Divine Right ( or greater state control as it's known now) which went down badly with middle England.......
Also from Andrew Neil 'Strong indications from Murdoch and Salmond sources that Scottish Sun will back independence, despite protestations of London Sun Editor'
Though could backfire with Scottish Labour voters
London Sun editor will be on the dole queue in 5...4....3....2...1....
@Briandamge64: How ironic that of the 11 guys deemed worthy of representing scotland tonight only 1 is eligible to vote in the referendum. Very democratic
Course it's democratic, if you don't live there you don't get to decide if it separates.
@Briandamge64: How ironic that of the 11 guys deemed worthy of representing scotland tonight only 1 is eligible to vote in the referendum. Very democratic
Course it's democratic, if you don't live there you don't get to decide if it separates.
It does show how far Scottish football has fallen, when only one player plays at home.
Ambitious Scots will continue to migrate south either way the vote goes.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
LOL - and the divine right of kings of course.
Hmm, thing was it was that foreign dynasty the Stuarts who were big on Divine Right ( or greater state control as it's known now) which went down badly with middle England.......
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to be a vote so get on with it.
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to a vote so get on with it.
Meantime any arrests in Rotherham ?
There's been quite a few arrests in West Yorkshire.
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to a vote so get on with it.
Meantime any arrests in Rotherham ?
There's been quite a few arrests in West Yorkshire.
If any Scots Nats are around can they tell me with a straight face that they don't find Alex Salmond insufferably smug and wouldn't they prefer the fragrant Nicola to be running their campaign?
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to a vote so get on with it.
Meantime any arrests in Rotherham ?
There's been quite a few arrests in West Yorkshire.
But nothing in Ed;s back garden.
And Cameron does zilch.
In this country, the Prime Minister does not order the arrests of people.
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
Dave should go upto Scotland and announce if Scotland votes No, then he will abolish the Scottish parliament and appoint a Viceroy to run Scotland and that the first Viceroy will be Mark Thatcher.
Spiffing idea, Mr. Eagles, wish I had thought of it. He should also announce that henceforth the Church of Scotland will use the Book of Common Prayer and have bishops (that worked well the last time it was tried).
LOL - and the divine right of kings of course.
Steady on, Mr. Brooke, we don't want to drag Her Majesty into the sordid business of politics.
maybe we should save that treat for King Charles
Fair go, he might deserve it. Though I don't think he as big an eejit as he is portrayed. An old mate of mine (killed on HMS Glamorgan in the Falklands) served under Prince Charles when Charles was captain of a minesweeper and reckoned he was an OK boss (which was as high a compliment as my mate was ever going to give). I have a lot of time for his boys too, I think William will make an excellent King (though I doubt I'll live to see it) and young Harry needs to find himself a good woman.
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to a vote so get on with it.
Meantime any arrests in Rotherham ?
There's been quite a few arrests in West Yorkshire.
There usually are, every weekend. I blame the beer.
Comments
Google "EU convergence payments row" for details
http://cicerossongs.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/the-price-of-scottish-independence.html#disqus_thread
I have to say I am not especially exercised about the question of Scottish independence one way or another. However, with the present brutal examples of Ireland, Greece, Portugal and now France to concentrate my mind, there are no circumstances under which I would be willing to advocate, approve or vote for any political candidate who advocated or approved of a currency union with an independent Scotland. If they leave the UK, as far as I am concerned they leave the pound as well.
It should also be noted that Scotland, by leaving the UK, would leave the EU - in fact, it might even theoretically do that under Devomax, as happened with Greenland - and it would have to reapply under Article 49, a process that usually takes around 5 years. I would also be opposed to any concessions to Scotland to allow it to reapply quickly (not that my view matters much, but if I feel that way how would the Spanish, French, Belgians or Italians feel given the separatist movements they have to deal with)?
So to see Alex Salmond behaving as though these are minor matters that will fall into line as soon as he gets his way is rather concerning. If people are silly enough to fall for it, that's their problem.
05/09/2014 16:50
BBC's top complaints over the last month. And I thought those Doctor Who lesbian lizard haters were a fierce bunch. pic.twitter.com/NaZFuJWR85
07/09/2014 18:06
Heywood & Middleton 2014 Local election results
UKIP came 2nd even though they had 2 less candidates than CON & LD
ukgeneralelection2015.blogspot.com/2014/09/heywoo…
Look in the mirror! The Conservative party is actually the 'Conservative and Unionist' party and yet they have NO representation in Scotland. When will the Tories on here understand that they are the key architects of this? If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne....
maybe you should read up on scottish politics before you make a daft post like that.
http://tinyurl.com/nm3fx47
Happy now Scott_P?
do you actually know where Scotland is ?
You said: "it would probably help if Thatcherophiles stopped waxing nostalgically lyrical about her greatness, no shortage of which is expressed on here. Move on."
I asked you to provide an example of anyone extolling Thatcher on here on this referendum, yet you've failed to provide a single example of anyone doing it. Despite saying there was "no shortage".
Stop embarrassing yourself.
If one were, hypothetically, to think about where a surge for the SNP in current Labour and LibDem Westminster seats might occur in 2015, which of these would be the most promising for the SNP?
- The Aberdeen area (for example, Aberdeen W & Kincardine, Aberdeen N, Aberdeen S)
- The Edinburgh seats, some of which are currently split four ways (Edinburgh W, Edinburgh S)
- Labour strongholds such as Midlothian and Livingston
Edit: Note that these are all seats which could fall to the SNP on a swing of between 11 and 14% from 2010
Point out where I mentioned the extolling of Thatcher in the context of 'this referendum' before you burst into tears.
http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-29100304
Would make it more fun if they declare council by council. Say, then, Aberdeenshire, supposedly a Unionist area, goes NO 51-49. This would mean YES probably has the edge. If 55-45, a long night? 70-30, we can all go to sleep.
What would be the swing/bellweather councils? Maybe Edinburgh - an SNP presence at Holyrood but with significant Labour, LD and Tory support? Or Kilmarnock (East Ayrshire)?
Majority not huge and lots of forgotten Labour voters.
'If the UK should split, I want to see a line of Tory ministers lining up and apologising, starting with Cameron and Osborne...'
No was doing fine until Ed went to Scotland last week & then it quickly went pear shaped.
So here's a practical suggestion
Every Westminster MP, in every interview for the next 10 days, whatever the topic, "There will be no currency union"
Early life[edit]
Anya was born in Glasgow, Scotland and grew up in the Castlemilk area as a devout Christian and supports Rangers Football Club.[1] His father is a Nigerian research scientist, and his mother a Romanian economist. The couple met while studying at the universities in Bucharest. After finishing their studies his parents moved to Scotland in the late 1980s for his father to obtain his doctorate in metallurgy. He later on attended Gosford Hill Secondary School
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikechi_Anya
Also he is one of the Glenn Hoddle academy players.. I wonder how many others have come through that system
Alliance close gap to red-greens in new poll
The Social Democrats, Greens and Left Party clocked up 47.1 percentage points with the current government earning 38.5 in the poll carried out by Novus for Sveriges Radio news bulletin Ekot.
A similar poll done by Novus in August gave the opposition a bigger lead of 11.2. Now the Alliance appears to have closed the gap a little by 2.6 percentage points, with a week of heavy campaigning ahead.
Meanwhile, the new poll backs up what other findings have suggested that the Sweden Democrats will likely hold the balance of power. The party is supported by 10.4 percent of the voting public according to Novus, its highest figure since opinion polls started in 2008.
http://www.thelocal.se/20140907/alliance-close-gap-to-red-greens-in-new-poll
Given the light of evidence, are you prepared to change your conclusions to fit the facts: that it's your Tory analysis that is the false narrative?
Somehow, I doubt it. It will be the same immunity to reality that have Tories believe Theresa May is a good home secretary even after she rides roughshod over civil liberties, has huge backlogs of missing immigrants lost, needs the BBC to find out immigration test centres read the answers aloud to immigrants, takes days to stop riots in most our major cities, hands ancient British liberties voluntarily to Brussels, sees massive lines at Heathrow and manages a whopping 5% progress towards the net immigration target.
There is now also a Vienna Convention on Successor States in respect of treaties although the UK is not a signatory.
@afneil: Sources tell me Murdoch called Salmond on Saturday re "good news" about Sunday Times poll. Interesting.
http://www.jeremy-duns.com/blog/2014/9/7/kdgwxcbsned1rknh0h3zdvqrebxa3x
And people keep throwing money at this guy !!!
Blair, Cameron, Salmond and now Farage genuflect and kiss Rupert's ring
New politics mon cul
If all the unionists are in fact offering devomax why in heaven's name was it not on the ballot? All this divisiveness and national angst could have been avoided if it had been. And for that Camerin must bear the blame - if the union is lost history will hold him responsible, and rightly so.
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/09/07/full-results-scottish-independence-2nd-5th-septemb/
A. They won't believe you
And
B. We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff.
I've just seen Salmond looking and sounding very smug about Osborne's intervention and who can blame him......
It's the marketing equivalent of Stella after six months of its 'refreshingly expensive' campaign adding the strapline 'available half price from Lidl'
Come back Charles and Maurice.
Your Country Needs YOU!!
"....Ian Murray might have to get off his arse and do something"
I understand he's been standing in for Jim Murphy on his 100 town tour. They're probably on a triumphal march down Princess St at this very moment....
(OT I thought LuckyGuys comment "Utter Nonsense" in reply to my last post was a touch harsh until I read your "Do you know where Scotland is?" to Murali)
Though could backfire with Scottish Labour voters
"We're better off without a nation of people so stupid that they actually think it's all a bluff."
Thank goodness there is someone here prepared to look at the evidence and not get bogged down in sentimentality. England will be far better off if Scotland voted for independence. Why our politicians are running around in a panic at the prospect is beyond me. If Cameron was any sort of leader he would be up there holding rallies promising to bring back the Community Charge for Scotland whilst wearing a tabard bearing the motto, "Tories hate the Scots"
"All those saying that Dave and George will get the blame if Yes wins, will you concede that Dave and George will get a boost it Scotland votes No?"
'Fraid not. If it wasn't for George and Dave and of course Madge we wouldn't be starting from here in the first place..........
I suppose the question that poses is how long will UK politicians put up with the Murdochs before they hit back ?
Scotland leaving the union,won't that set off the EU referendum lock ? it's a massive change to our membership of the EU,we joined as the GB & NI and in a couple of weeks time part of it could have split.
No serious thought can have been given to the strategy behind this referendum - it is an absolute gift to the SNP. And it did not have to be like this.
Another reason why Labour cannot win next year.
Labour have a terrible record when it comes to partitioning countries.
Just look at the damage they inflicted when India and Pakistan split on their watch, hundreds of thousands dead.
Just dawned on me, Labour really like killing brown skinned people, partition of India, second invasion of Iraq.....
If so we've got:
Populus
The Good Lord- Amen
ICM
YouGov
The REAL #megapollingmonday
There can be excuses for complacency or ignorance, with polls suggesting an independent Scotland is only 10 days away
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/07/scottish-independence-ten-days-to-go-vote-uk?CMP=twt_fd
Ambitious Scots will continue to migrate south either way the vote goes.
what exactly is Kettle planning to do ?
The indy arguments were all settled six months ago, now it's just repitition and looking for something amusing to while away the tedium. There needs to be a vote so get on with it.
Meantime any arrests in Rotherham ?
Mr. Brooke, I believe not. The utter lack of follow-up by the media is bizarre. They spent more time on the yacht nonsense.
Could be wrong, but I think one investigation has been set up... After the first chap who resigned promptly, nobody (councillor or police) has gone.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, I missed those arrests.
And Cameron does zilch.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/11443422.28_men_arrested_in_Keighley_grooming_gang_probe/