Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
The Barnett Formula which means that spending on public services per capita in Scotland can be one sixth higher than in the rest of the UK?
How much does Scotland need to avoid privatising its NHS?
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during a currency union? You are still sure you'll get one, right?
I've a proposal for a currency union which may go down well south of the border. Scotland should be given special Browned Pounds. These would be a fair bit larger than the notes and coins we're used to, because they have to fit a large enough to be irritating, Grinning Gordon on both sides.
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
We have yet to see what currency we end up with, we will start with the pound for sure. Regardless not having Westminster skimming the cash will mean they can spend all Scotland's money where they think best rather than just the pocket money part.
Are you predicting that Scotland will be in surplus following independence? Or that you'll be able to borrow as much as you want while in a currency union?
I am predicting that they will be able to spend Scotland's money in a far better , fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
Do you not know or not care whether Scotland will raise enough in taxes to fund its public spending? Because if you can't, the Westminster government will have a bigger say than the Edinburgh government in how much you can borrow during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Serious question: is Rupert after becoming (or at least hosting) the new Scottish state broadcaster?
I seriously doubt it. or if so, it's very far down his list of priorities. More to do with his issues with The Establishment.
He is establishment, or haven't you worked that out ?
He was and may be again if he lasts long enough, currently Rupe's outside p!ssing in (not unknown in certain establishments in the east end of Glasgow).
Serious question: is Rupert after becoming (or at least hosting) the new Scottish state broadcaster?
I seriously doubt it. or if so, it's very far down his list of priorities. More to do with his issues with The Establishment.
He is establishment, or haven't you worked that out ?
He was and may be again if he lasts long enough, currently Rupe's outside the establishment p!ssing in (not unknown in certain establishments in the east end of Glasgow).
Nah he's in the tent just pissing. Probably having a hissy fit that he got fitted up for the NoW or that he's had to pay some taxes for a change or that he can't but all of Sky.
Why will we have less money, you trying to say we are subsidised by rest of UK. That old chestnut has been shown to be absolute rubbish. I say again we will spend our money on what matters , I don't think running up £1.5 trillion debt is a union benefit, so a freedom bonus will not be any worse
I didn't say you'd have less money; I asked whether you'd have a budget surplus or if you'd need to borrow. You ignored the question and wittered on about fairness (SNPnewSpeak for FREEDOM!!!), so I concluded that for you FREEDOM!!/fairness was more important than how much your cruel Westminster oppressors would allow you to borrow.
GeorgeMonbiot @GeorgeMonbiot 3 mins An extraordinary moment: potentially one of the greatest shake-ups Britain has experienced for centuries. And long overdue. #indyref
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
The Barnett Formula which means that spending on public services per capita in Scotland can be one sixth higher than in the rest of the UK?
How much does Scotland need to avoid privatising its NHS?
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during a currency union? You are still sure you'll get one, right?
I've a proposal for a currency union which may go down well south of the border. Scotland should be given special Browned Pounds. These would be a fair bit larger than the notes and coins we're used to, because they have to fit a large enough to be irritating, Grinning Gordon on both sides.
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
We have yet to see what currency we end up with, we will start with the pound for sure. Regardless not having Westminster skimming the cash will mean they can spend all Scotland's money where they think best rather than just the pocket money part.
Are you predicting that Scotland will be in surplus following independence? Or that you'll be able to borrow as much as you want while in a currency union?
I am predicting that they will be able to spend Scotland's money in a far better , fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
Do you not know or not care whether Scotland will raise enough in taxes to fund its public spending? Because if you can't, the Westminster government will have a bigger say than the Edinburgh government in how much you can borrow during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
Why will we have less money, you trying to say we are subsidised by rest of UK. That old chestnut has been shown to be absolute rubbish. I say again we will spend our money on what matters , I don't think running up £1.5 trillion debt is a union benefit, so a freedom bonus will not be any worse
I didn't say you'd have less money; I asked whether you'd have a budget surplus or if you'd need to borrow. You ignored the question and wittered on about fairness (SNPnewSpeak for FREEDOM!!!), so I concluded that for you FREEDOM!!/fairness was more important than how much your cruel Westminster oppressors would allow you to borrow.
I doubt we will be awash with spare cash , but doubt we will be worse off , initially at least. If you actually read what I said , we would have all our own money and be able to spend it how and where we wished. Currently we do not have that option. So I would opt for less money and freedom to spend it rather than more money and someone telling me where I spend it. Is that clear enough, no mention of any juvenile freedom bonuses etc, we are discussing this up here as adults.
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
The Barnett Formula which means that spending on public services per capita in Scotland can be one sixth higher than in the rest of the UK?
How much does Scotland need to avoid privatising its NHS?
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during irritating, Grinning Gordon on both sides.
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
We have yet to see what currency we end up with, we will start with the pound for sure. Regardless not having Westminster skimming the cash will mean they can spend all Scotland's money where they think best rather than just the pocket money part.
Are you predicting that Scotland will be in surplus following independence? Or that you'll be able to borrow as much as you want while in a currency union?
I am predicting that they will be able to spend Scotland's money in a far better , fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
Do you not know or not care whether Scotland will raise enough in taxes to fund its public spending? Because if you can't, the Westminster government will have a bigger say than the Edinburgh government in how much you can borrow during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
There's no reason why Scotland couldn't make a go of it, it's just you wouldn't do it this way.
A dicked up currency union will empty your bank accounts Salmond has chosen one of the worst options on offer.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
Where in your fevered imagination are you seeing this apart from the London media meltdown. Only BT promote themselves as "patriots", YES people are happy knowing they are just ordinary Scots.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
Where in your fevered imagination are you seeing this apart from the London media meltdown.
well I suppose the Scottish Police asking people to tone it down might give that impression
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during a currency union? You are still sure you'll get one, right?
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
We have yet to see what currency we end up with, we will start with the pound for sure. Regardless not having Westminster skimming the cash will mean they can spend all Scotland's money where they think best rather than just the pocket money part.
Are you predicting that Scotland will be in surplus following independence? Or that you'll be able to borrow as much as you want while in a currency union?
I am predicting that they will be able to spend Scotland's money in a far better , fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
Do you not know or not care whether Scotland will raise enough in taxes to fund its public spending? Because if you can't, the Westminster government will have a bigger say than the Edinburgh government in how much you can borrow during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
I think Scotland will be ok...eventually. You'll just have to though an awful lot of pain first.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
Where in your fevered imagination are you seeing this apart from the London media meltdown.
well I suppose the Scottish Police asking people to tone it down might give that impression
It was who they were asking to tone it down that is significant Alan, it was BT that was asked to get a grip.
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
The Barnett Formula which means that spending on public services per capita in Scotland can be one sixth higher than in the rest of the UK?
How much does Scotland need to avoid privatising its NHS?
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during irritating, Grinning Gordon on both sides.
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
pocket money part.
fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
There's no reason why Scotland couldn't make a go of it, it's just you wouldn't do it this way.
A dicked up currency union will empty your bank accounts Salmond has chosen one of the worst options on offer.
Alan, there is a long way to go on that one, we have no clue what will be the outcome there.
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during a currency union? You are still sure you'll get one, right?
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
We have yet to see what currency we end up with, we will start with the pound for sure. Regardless not having Westminster skimming the cash will mean they can spend all Scotland's money where they think best rather than just the pocket money part.
Are you predicting that Scotland will be in surplus following independence? Or that you'll be able to borrow as much as you want while in a currency union?
I am predicting that they will be able to spend Scotland's money in a far better , fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
Do you not know or not care whether Scotland will raise enough in taxes to fund its public spending? Because if you can't, the Westminster government will have a bigger say than the Edinburgh government in how much you can borrow during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
I think Scotland will be ok...eventually. You'll just have to though an awful lot of pain first.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
Where in your fevered imagination are you seeing this apart from the London media meltdown. Only BT promote themselves as "patriots", YES people are happy knowing they are just ordinary Scots.
You talked about your opponents' "jackboots" earlier on.
Further examples of Labour's multiculturalism success:
British female jihadis are running an ultra-religious police force that punishes women for un-Islamic behaviour in territory controlled by Islamist terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
How much more do we need before the Right's arguments have been made "out of date"?
The vast majority of ultra-religious vigilantism against women for un-Islamic behaviour is carried out by white males in Surrey. As Theresa May said in the HoC recently.
Surprised that you have never heard of the Barnett Formula.
The Barnett Formula which means that spending on public services per capita in Scotland can be one sixth higher than in the rest of the UK?
How much does Scotland need to avoid privatising its NHS?
It needs to control its own money and not have Westminster skimming it and deciding where it is spent. You cannot plan when you get pocket money , as we have seen it gets cut on a whim and often.
How will it be any different during irritating, Grinning Gordon on both sides.
I imagine Scotland would dash for the groat or euro
pocket money part.
fairer and efficient way than the wasters at Westminster.
during a currency union.
Of course I do and I want them spent in Scotland to benefit Scottish people, not skimmed in Westminster for Trident , illegal wars and infrastructure in London. After independence , England will waken up and have the same conclusion.
After Indy England will fleece you, or are you putting all your trust in the City vultures being nice guys after all and leaving Edinburgh's Financial Services as it is ?
Alan, they are all rogues , we will see how it goes. We cannot continue as we are , change is needed so it is worth taking a chance. Lots of small countries do well so no reason why Scotland cannot make a go of it.
There's no reason why Scotland couldn't make a go of it, it's just you wouldn't do it this way.
A dicked up currency union will empty your bank accounts Salmond has chosen one of the worst options on offer.
Alan, there is a long way to go on that one, we have no clue what will be the outcome there.
LOL I think that sums it up malc nobody has a clue
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Why will we have less money, you trying to say we are subsidised by rest of UK. That old chestnut has been shown to be absolute rubbish. I say again we will spend our money on what matters , I don't think running up £1.5 trillion debt is a union benefit, so a freedom bonus will not be any worse
I didn't say you'd have less money; I asked whether you'd have a budget surplus or if you'd need to borrow. You ignored the question and wittered on about fairness (SNPnewSpeak for FREEDOM!!!), so I concluded that for you FREEDOM!!/fairness was more important than how much your cruel Westminster oppressors would allow you to borrow.
I doubt we will be awash with spare cash , but doubt we will be worse off , initially at least. If you actually read what I said , we would have all our own money and be able to spend it how and where we wished. Currently we do not have that option. So I would opt for less money and freedom to spend it rather than more money and someone telling me where I spend it. Is that clear enough, no mention of any juvenile freedom bonuses etc, we are discussing this up here as adults.
That's the crucial bit, and the bit which Salmond should be more honest about. Independence, especially in a currency union, could make you worse off, but it's worth it for FAIRNESS!!!
And, with your puerile playground name-calling that plagues these boards, you should maybe be a little less eager to claim the grown-up-high-ground. You're very easy to push off.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 44m 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
Here’s a conundrum that crossed my mind while watching this weekend’s Burghley Horse Trials – in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
Would Scotland have to apply to be a member of the Commonwealth games in order to take part in the very games they have just hosted? – I wonder if Better Together have an answer…
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Here’s a conundrum that crossed my mind while watching this weekend’s Burghley Horse Trials – in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
Would Scotland have to apply to be a member of the Commonwealth games in order to take part in the very games they have just hosted? – I wonder if Better Together have an answer…
No, they'd form a Scotland team in due course.
The Czech example suggests joint teams for a 2 - 4 year period whilst things are sorted out
I hope so, the £100k of US denominated stock I've got is doing better through exchange rate movement than value growth. I've made about £1000 since yesterday and the US markets aren't even open yet.
F1: just watching the Notebook on the Sky site, and it seems Albers, the new Caterham team principal (only had the job for a few races) may be resigning shortly due to lack of promised money from the Swiss-Middle Eastern consortium that bought the team. Edited extra bit: turns out he's already resigned: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29103680
Turns out Hulkenberg had floor damage which is why he was only 12th.
Perhaps most significantly from the Notebook is that Lotus' deal for Mercedes engines* next year has not been confirmed properly because they haven't put any money up. If they end up not using it then that opens the door for another team. If a backmarker team (Sauber, Caterham, Marussia) could get it, that would be a significant bonus for them.
*McLaren shifting to Honda next year means another team instead can use the Mercedes engine. This has many advantages: it's the most powerful, fuel efficient and (believe it or not) the cheapest.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
Here’s a conundrum that crossed my mind while watching this weekend’s Burghley Horse Trials – in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
Would Scotland have to apply to be a member of the Commonwealth games in order to take part in the very games they have just hosted? – I wonder if Better Together have an answer…
There will be a talent drain of sportspersons south to take advantage of the lottery funding and facilities.
in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
That depends.
Andy Murray has I believe said he would compete for Scotland, but for the others if you live and train in Manchester, or Bath, or Loughborough at the UK sport elite training facilities it would be an interesting choice.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
It's almost touching that what passes for the Left on here is united with the PB Right in resorting to almost identical disobliging & ill-informed infelicities. One might even call it cultural..
I hope so, the £100k of US denominated stock I've got is doing better through exchange rate movement than value growth. I've made about £1000 since yesterday and the US markets aren't even open yet.
Dammit..I'm going to the US next month.. do I buy dollars now?
Further examples of Labour's multiculturalism success:
British female jihadis are running an ultra-religious police force that punishes women for un-Islamic behaviour in territory controlled by Islamist terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
How much more do we need before the Right's arguments have been made "out of date"?
The vast majority of ultra-religious vigilantism against women for un-Islamic behaviour is carried out by white males in Surrey. As Theresa May said in the HoC recently.
Racist.
Lefty muppets playing the racist card without merit again. It was people like you using that tactic that allowed 1400 kids to get raped in Rotherham. People with basic decency would have learnt their lesson by now.
The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Serious question: is Rupert after becoming (or at least hosting) the new Scottish state broadcaster?
He could not be worse than the EBC. They are reviled now for their bias. Given we pay £330 million for them and Ireland get same for £21 million there will be spare money for a decent Scottish broadcasting company. Murdoch would be no worse than the BBC.
Just been scrolling down after being away down and come across this.
Mr G has posted some tripe on occasion but if he’d really be happy with a Murdoch-controlled main national broadcaster, then he does need professional psychiatric care.
Watching the news this morning, it appeared as if Labour had just woken up to the fact that a YES vote could mean wilderness for them.
Just wonder if they saw that YouGov for Scottish voters had found that Cameron had an popularity factor of -28 whilst EdM's was -53.
I don't know I get the feeling that Labour are doing this to build up pressure so that they can directly attack Cameron in the aftermath.
Remember they reckon they will win the next election (barely) and then can "negotiate" with all the usual bad faith Labour is renown for and try anything to block independence once in power
Further examples of Labour's multiculturalism success:
British female jihadis are running an ultra-religious police force that punishes women for un-Islamic behaviour in territory controlled by Islamist terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
How much more do we need before the Right's arguments have been made "out of date"?
The vast majority of ultra-religious vigilantism against women for un-Islamic behaviour is carried out by white males in Surrey. As Theresa May said in the HoC recently.
Racist.
Lefty muppets playing the racist card without merit again. It was people like you using that tactic that allowed 1400 kids to get raped in Rotherham. People with basic decency would have learnt their lesson by now.
in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
That depends.
Andy Murray has I believe said he would compete for Scotland, but for the others if you live and train in Manchester, or Bath, or Loughborough at the UK sport elite training facilities it would be an interesting choice.
in the event of a YES vote, would Scottish athletes still form part of ‘team GB’ at the Olympics, the World athletics championships and every other major ‘team GB’ sporting event?
That depends.
Andy Murray has I believe said he would compete for Scotland, but for the others if you live and train in Manchester, or Bath, or Loughborough at the UK sport elite training facilities it would be an interesting choice.
as I understand it Murray said "well if Scotland became independent then I guess I would compete for Scotland"
Hardly sounded like a ringing endorsement of a bright new dawn.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
It's almost touching that what passes for the Left on here is united with the PB Right in resorting to almost identical disobliging & ill-informed infelicities. One might even call it cultural..
It is clear that in the event of a Yes vote (inshallah), Scotland would continue to blame England for everything that's wrong with Scotland in the same way, and for the same reasons, that Mugabe does.
The handouts of free English money may slightly lessen, but the whining will get louder.
On the positive side, I've always fancied visiting Edinburgh / Glasgow and John O'Groats, so I'll definitely wait for the outcome of the vote; if it's a Yes it's about to become about 30% cheaper.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Should imagine their price will rebound on transfer to London.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
It is clear that in the event of a Yes vote (inshallah), Scotland would continue to blame England for everything that's wrong with Scotland in the same way, and for the same reasons, that Mugabe does.
The handouts of free English money may slightly lessen, but the whining will get louder.
@patrickwintour: 44 % of Scots aged 16 to 60 think new supplies of oil have recentlly been found, but UK govt is keeping it secret - YouGov for Buzzfeed.
These people are going to blame the English for NOT lying to them...
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Yes indeed. Hence my fantasy the other day of an independent Scotland whose government was trying to cope simultaneously with polls showing a majority for Reunion on the one hand and border "reivers" using political violence against Cumbrians on the other. Campaigns like "YES" need martyrs - indeed that is arguably where the YES campaign has fallen down. It's a heart job, and it's probably too late now, but if it could only have identified and personified a victim of Unionist oppression, it would be home and hosed by now. And of course the SNP would get a better deal in the negotiations...
It's almost touching that what passes for the Left on here is united with the PB Right in resorting to almost identical disobliging & ill-informed infelicities. One might even call it cultural..
It is clear that in the event of a Yes vote (inshallah), Scotland would continue to blame England for everything that's wrong with Scotland in the same way, and for the same reasons, that Mugabe does.
The handouts of free English money may slightly lessen, but the whining will get louder.
On the positive side, I've always fancied visiting Edinburgh / Glasgow and John O'Groats, so I'll definitely wait for the outcome of the vote; if it's a Yes it's about to become about 30% cheaper.
Sadly it's going to be a No.
For future reference, you were consigned to the (large) uninteresting, unfunny and uninformed pile a long time ago, so I shouldn't bother if I were you.
If I was living in Scotland I'd observe just how many Englih voters take leave of their senses by voting Tory and would enthusiastically endorse independence.
If I was living in Scotland I'd observe just how many Englih voters take leave of their senses by voting Tory and would enthusiastically endorse independence.
The bonus of that course of action is that you prevent Ed from being PM - win/win eh ?
I hope so, the £100k of US denominated stock I've got is doing better through exchange rate movement than value growth. I've made about £1000 since yesterday and the US markets aren't even open yet.
Futures are pointing to the US opening flat (well, down -0.1% actually...)
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Should imagine their price will rebound on transfer to London.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
Serious question: is Rupert after becoming (or at least hosting) the new Scottish state broadcaster?
He could not be worse than the EBC. They are reviled now for their bias. Given we pay £330 million for them and Ireland get same for £21 million there will be spare money for a decent Scottish broadcasting company. Murdoch would be no worse than the BBC.
Just been scrolling down after being away down and come across this.
Mr G has posted some tripe on occasion but if he’d really be happy with a Murdoch-controlled main national broadcaster, then he does need professional psychiatric care.
Why does there need to be a "main" national broadcaster at all? Especially if it is also a "State" one like the BBC?
If the state got out of the soap opera business where it has no place being then we could enjoy multiple deregulated channels competing in an open market. And no biased BBC and no telly tax.
One pleasant bonus of a YES vote will be the dismemberment of the BBC.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Should imagine their price will rebound on transfer to London.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
The Edinburgh Stock Exchange is going to have bugger all to trade.
"In light trading today, Amalgamated Haggis was down three pence...."
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Should imagine their price will rebound on transfer to London.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
Will SSE become Southern and Scottish Energy?
SFE
Southern and Foreign Energy - the big site at Perth will move to Southampton leaving a call centre.
Serious question: is Rupert after becoming (or at least hosting) the new Scottish state broadcaster?
He could not be worse than the EBC. They are reviled now for their bias. Given we pay £330 million for them and Ireland get same for £21 million there will be spare money for a decent Scottish broadcasting company. Murdoch would be no worse than the BBC.
Just been scrolling down after being away down and come across this.
Mr G has posted some tripe on occasion but if he’d really be happy with a Murdoch-controlled main national broadcaster, then he does need professional psychiatric care.
Why does there need to be a "main" national broadcaster at all? Especially if it is also a "State" one like the BBC?
If the state got out of the soap opera business where it has no place being then we could enjoy multiple deregulated channels competing in an open market. And no biased BBC and no telly tax.
One pleasant bonus of a YES vote will be the dismemberment of the BBC.
Different issue. I said if a Murdoch-controlled one was dominant......
If there's a Yes, I wonder if on the 19th the Treasury might withdraw permission for Scottish banks to print their own notes?
- a statement of intent. We were not fibbing about a currency union so better get used to importing your notes from 'abroad'
- Alex Salmond was lying to you all along
- We are not going to roll over in the negotiations
Wouldn't change the result, but might have a bearing on future elections and the negotiated outcomes?
More to the point, who in their right mind will accept those notes, in England?
Scots already suffer a bit of resistance, when using them. After a YES I expect significant resistance. I wouldn't accept them if I were offered them as payment. If I did take them, how could I be sure the person I handed them on to would also take them? How could I be sure there wouldn't be come huge crisis in 2 months, during the divorce, rendering them worthless in England, or everywhere?
Sean, Scotland could perhaps resurrect the ancient use of seashells as currency. As in many primitive societies, they could be strung together - and have a double use as body art. Perhaps slung from the sporran?
Further examples of Labour's multiculturalism success:
British female jihadis are running an ultra-religious police force that punishes women for un-Islamic behaviour in territory controlled by Islamist terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.
How much more do we need before the Right's arguments have been made "out of date"?
The vast majority of ultra-religious vigilantism against women for un-Islamic behaviour is carried out by white males in Surrey. As Theresa May said in the HoC recently.
Racist.
Lefty muppets playing the racist card without merit again. It was people like you using that tactic that allowed 1400 kids to get raped in Rotherham. People with basic decency would have learnt their lesson by now.
It was Bernard Levin who thought there should be a form of script called "ironics", like italics but slanted backwards, for people like you.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
I don't know if 'explain' is the right approach to a BT strategy reminiscent of the muck-spreader on the farm near me - emitting lots of sharny lumps at random. The trouble is that so much of this manure-storm of negativity was incredible or so easily refuted by personal knowledge that it tainted the entire output.
For instance, to claim that the BBC would cost money to listen to in iScotland, or that we wouldn't get Dr Who, ignored the existence of the present licence fee tax, and what happens in Ireland etc. And to imply (for instance) that EWNI wouldn't take good money to let us like the Irish watch Dr Who, just out of spite, portrayed the English, rather ironically, in a most unfortunate manner when the Yes campaign (full of the English) or the Scots generally (vide spectators at Commonwealth Games) just don't think that way, despite what is being said here.
Other stories were pretty easily refuted by media reports or by simple discussion. Look at mobile phone roaming charges - proven nonsense on the day of publication. And state pensions accrued to date - look what happens in Spain with UK expats.
And add the effect of stupid stories such as panda deportation, driving on the right ((c) A. Burnham), and the OTT ones like danger form outer space, and Armageddon ((c) G. Robertson).
People don't always have the expertise to judge all the issues but they can tell when they are being bullshitted on things they do know about and it affects their view of the credibility of the rest. And that has been a very important element of the discussions going on in Scotland in recent weeks.
O a related issue, an interesting piece in the Graun which reinforces my view that indyref is all about moving from No to Yes as one gets to know the unfamiliar option as well as the status quo (or what ysed to be the status quo).
If there's a Yes, I wonder if on the 19th the Treasury might withdraw permission for Scottish banks to print their own notes?
- a statement of intent. We were not fibbing about a currency union so better get used to importing your notes from 'abroad'
- Alex Salmond was lying to you all along
- We are not going to roll over in the negotiations
Wouldn't change the result, but might have a bearing on future elections and the negotiated outcomes?
More to the point, who in their right mind will accept those notes, in England?
Scots already suffer a bit of resistance, when using them. After a YES I expect significant resistance. I wouldn't accept them if I were offered them as payment. If I did take them, how could I be sure the person I handed them on to would also take them? How could I be sure there wouldn't be come huge crisis in 2 months, during the divorce, rendering them worthless in England, or everywhere?
I don't think I'd be that keen on having them if I was in _Scotland_... Why take the risk that your money will end up worth less?
PS Actual fact (definitely true, I read it on Twitter): Scotland doesn't have legal tender laws.
If there's a Yes, I wonder if on the 19th the Treasury might withdraw permission for Scottish banks to print their own notes?
- a statement of intent. We were not fibbing about a currency union so better get used to importing your notes from 'abroad'
- Alex Salmond was lying to you all along
- We are not going to roll over in the negotiations
Wouldn't change the result, but might have a bearing on future elections and the negotiated outcomes?
More to the point, who in their right mind will accept those notes, in England?
Scots already suffer a bit of resistance, when using them. After a YES I expect significant resistance. I wouldn't accept them if I were offered them as payment. If I did take them, how could I be sure the person I handed them on to would also take them? How could I be sure there wouldn't be come huge crisis in 2 months, during the divorce, rendering them worthless in England, or everywhere?
Sean, Scotland could perhaps resurrect the ancient use of seashells as currency. As in many primitive societies, they could be strung together - and have a double use as body art. Perhaps slung from the sporran?
It should be called 'The Rupert' after Scotland's new best friend.
It would serve as a reminder to 'independent' Scots of who was pulling Eck's strings.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Not according to Ed Miliband they won't. Full-on border posts, with guards with guns and everything....
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
The Union shouldn't favour Scotland financially over the other nations.
English politicians offering Devomax and more treats for the north will be slaughtered at the polls.
Devomax (proper devomax, not devo-a-little-wee-bittockie-more-maybe like this week) would not be a matter of giving treats to the north - the Scots would keep their own resources and fend for themselves, and charged a sub for foreign affairs and defence etc. Subsidy junkie problem solved. What's not to like for a DM reader?
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Unless Scotland adopts a different immigration policy to FUK. A more "welcoming" immigration policy.
Is that possible?
Edit to add: and you travel more than I do, but the border controls I encounter even when they exist are pretty minimal these days.
Kamal Ahmed @bbckamal · 51 mins 6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
Should imagine their price will rebound on transfer to London.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
Will SSE become Southern and Scottish Energy?
SFE
Southern and Foreign Energy - the big site at Perth will move to Southampton leaving a call centre.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Unless Scotland adopts a different immigration policy to FUK. A more "welcoming" immigration policy. And that just happens to be Salmond's explicit intention.
In which case there will have to be a proper border. With guards. It is inescapable, otherwise it makes our immigration policy pointless. So there WILL be a frontier.
Will be like Calais - with queues and passport control booths. Heaven help people getting a coach.
Train will be more interesting - passport control and luggage checks before boarding like Eurostar ?
If there's a Yes, I wonder if on the 19th the Treasury might withdraw permission for Scottish banks to print their own notes?
- a statement of intent. We were not fibbing about a currency union so better get used to importing your notes from 'abroad'
- Alex Salmond was lying to you all along
- We are not going to roll over in the negotiations
Wouldn't change the result, but might have a bearing on future elections and the negotiated outcomes?
More to the point, who in their right mind will accept those notes, in England?
Scots already suffer a bit of resistance, when using them. After a YES I expect significant resistance. I wouldn't accept them if I were offered them as payment. If I did take them, how could I be sure the person I handed them on to would also take them? How could I be sure there wouldn't be come huge crisis in 2 months, during the divorce, rendering them worthless in England, or everywhere?
From a technical perspective, the Scottish Banks deposit with the Bank of England the equivalent amount in Pounds Sterling to that they have in issued bank notes. If BoS or Clydesdale wants to print another £10 note, it needs to send £10 to the Bank of England first.
The consequence of this is that Scottish bank notes are - effectively - fully underwritten by the BoE. I believe - although I could be wrong - that you can turn up in Threadneedle Street, hand over a Scottish bank note to the cashier, they will hand you a crisp BoE one. They will then reduce the amount that the Scottish bank is required to deposit with the BoE.
There is no reason why this should change immediately post independence vote.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Unless Scotland adopts a different immigration policy to FUK. A more "welcoming" immigration policy.
Is that possible?
Doesn't need to be much more welcoming than current policy, given the existing numbers compared to demographic targets. We're talking a few hundred or thousand a year, IIRC [edit - on top of current levels]. A little more emphasis on encouraging key workers and research students/academics would do very nicely.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
The Union shouldn't favour Scotland financially over the other nations.
English politicians offering Devomax and more treats for the north will be slaughtered at the polls.
Devomax (proper devomax, not devo-a-little-wee-bittockie-more-maybe like this week) would not be a matter of giving treats to the north - the Scots would keep their own resources and fend for themselves, and charged a sub for foreign affairs and defence etc. Subsidy junkie problem solved. What's not to like for a DM reader?
So you wouldn't come crawling for extra wee handouts when the oil run outs?
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Unless Scotland adopts a different immigration policy to FUK. A more "welcoming" immigration policy. And that just happens to be Salmond's explicit intention.
In which case there will have to be a proper border. With guards. It is inescapable, otherwise it makes our immigration policy pointless. So there WILL be a frontier.
Look on the bright side, you'll soon be able to write a book called "The Strange Death of Labour in Scotland"
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
The Union shouldn't favour Scotland financially over the other nations.
English politicians offering Devomax and more treats for the north will be slaughtered at the polls.
Devomax (proper devomax, not devo-a-little-wee-bittockie-more-maybe like this week) would not be a matter of giving treats to the north - the Scots would keep their own resources and fend for themselves, and charged a sub for foreign affairs and defence etc. Subsidy junkie problem solved. What's not to like for a DM reader?
So you wouldn't come crawling for extra wee handouts when the oil run outs?
The way things are going in that sort of timescale, it'll be water - both fresh and tidal - that will be crucial by that time.
Mr. Carnyx, the problem would be Scottish MPs voting on English matters. It would affect a vast majority of areas and be clearly indefensible.
Of course, there's an easy answer: an English Parliament. But Westminster won't go for that because it'd emasculate Parliament as is, leaving it with just Treasury, Foreign and Defence departments.
So, instead I imagine we'll either get English votes on English matters (better but probably insufficient) or the attempt to carve up England (absolutely despicable and unacceptable).
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Unless Scotland adopts a different immigration policy to FUK. A more "welcoming" immigration policy.
Is that possible?
Doesn't need to be much more welcoming than current policy, given the existing numbers compared to demographic targets. We're talking a few hundred or thousand a year, IIRC [edit - on top of current levels]. A little more emphasis on encouraging key workers and research students/academics would do very nicely.
</blockquote
Salmond's Scotland will face an emigration rather than immigration crisis. Your academia will slump to SPL levels of mediocrity or worse.
I'd rather they had independence than gift them Devomax anyway. The current set up is bad enough.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
Let's not be silly. Border controls will be minimal (like NI/Eire, and most intra-EU borders), security - NATO and benefit of being in our back yard, and you say "no BBC" like it's a bad thing and like Sky had been disinvented.
Sorry if I'm stirring up something that's already been bad-temperedly done to death but wouldn't Scotland have to join Schengen to be in the EU? I know Sweden cracked the cheat codes for staying out of the Euro, but is there a similar trick for Schengen? If not it's not obvious that the various separatism-phobic countries like Spain would agree to make things easy for Scotland by giving them a special dispensation. And making Scotland join Schengen would annoy England as well, which would be fun for the other member states who Cameron has been dicking around at every possible opportunity.
The level of bile, I see, is increasing in both Scottish "patriots" and Sassenachs. If YES wins, what is the chance that both the Scots and the English will regard the terms of separation as fair to both parties while we are all in this mood? Nil, of course. If NO wins, the "patriots" will claim to have been cheated, that's for sure.
It is the long standing animosity betwixt England and Scotland that has led to where are. – YES or NO, that hostility will remain and I really don’t see how that boil can be lanced. – My concern however is not so much the split between E&S after the referendum, - but the split within Scotland itself that will remain irrespective of either outcome.
Amongst the reasons that I want Scotland to vote YES is the degree of animosity that has grown within Scotland towards the English. This was inevitable once SLAB and the Scot LDs joined up with the SNP and embarked on positioning themselves against those Westminster Tories. Nationalistic campaigns spinning lies and smearing an opponent results in the under 60s leaning heavily towards separation. Independence is inevitable. If not this time then through the next referendum be it in 2019 or 2024.
Comments
Apparently some have been claiming Rosberg was ordered to make a mistake so Hamilton got the win. Not impossible but pretty unlikely, I think.
Meanwhile, back in Euro Disney Princess Marine tops the polls.
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2014/09/07/97001-20140907FILWWW00111-valls-l-extreme-droite-aux-portes-du-pouvoir.php
GeorgeMonbiot @GeorgeMonbiot 3 mins
An extraordinary moment: potentially one of the greatest shake-ups Britain has experienced for centuries. And long overdue. #indyref
Is that clear enough, no mention of any juvenile freedom bonuses etc, we are discussing this up here as adults.
A dicked up currency union will empty your bank accounts Salmond has chosen one of the worst options on offer.
Racist.
Is that what's known as being canny ? ;-)
And a couple of pieces from the Staggers to confirm that SeanT is a misunderstood prophet re devomax (and I too):
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/alistair-darling-im-confident-we-will-win-day
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/westminster-prepares-offer-further-powers-scotland-it-too-little-too-late
It seems even Harry Potter's mum wants proper devomax too (depending admittedly on her understanding of the phrase).
http://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/local/11457629._/?ref=twtrec
Tories go out on a limb.
And, with your puerile playground name-calling that plagues these boards, you should maybe be a little less eager to claim the grown-up-high-ground. You're very easy to push off.
What does the "E " stand for Malcolm?
WestminstEr?
6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
We need some positive no polls followed by another Yes lead in a day or so - for trading purposes
Would Scotland have to apply to be a member of the Commonwealth games in order to take part in the very games they have just hosted? – I wonder if Better Together have an answer…
6 of top 10 biggest fallers on FTSE this morning are Scottish based - RBS, Weir, SSE, Lloyds, Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Management
If it's a YES vote, they won't be Scottish based for much longer.
But even so....go Scotland!
The Czech example suggests joint teams for a 2 - 4 year period whilst things are sorted out
Edited extra bit: turns out he's already resigned: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29103680
Turns out Hulkenberg had floor damage which is why he was only 12th.
Perhaps most significantly from the Notebook is that Lotus' deal for Mercedes engines* next year has not been confirmed properly because they haven't put any money up. If they end up not using it then that opens the door for another team. If a backmarker team (Sauber, Caterham, Marussia) could get it, that would be a significant bonus for them.
*McLaren shifting to Honda next year means another team instead can use the Mercedes engine. This has many advantages: it's the most powerful, fuel efficient and (believe it or not) the cheapest.
Similar to all other industries.
Andy Murray has I believe said he would compete for Scotland, but for the others if you live and train in Manchester, or Bath, or Loughborough at the UK sport elite training facilities it would be an interesting choice.
Frankly, offering concessions after people have started voting is desperate. The unionists need to be arguing for the Union and telling people that Salmond's vision is a fantasy. Independence means a complete break, fending for yourself. Border controls. Passport to visit your family (or your place of work) in England. No safety net, no military, no shared security, no shared currency (unless it's the Euro), no BBC.
Why are BT not explaining this?
I concur on DevoMax.
@LabourList: Why let facts spoil a Scottish independence party? asks @stefanstern http://labli.st/1CHXwK2
Mr G has posted some tripe on occasion but if he’d really be happy with a Murdoch-controlled main national broadcaster, then he does need professional psychiatric care.
Remember they reckon they will win the next election (barely) and then can "negotiate" with all the usual bad faith Labour is renown for and try anything to block independence once in power
Hardly sounded like a ringing endorsement of a bright new dawn.
The handouts of free English money may slightly lessen, but the whining will get louder.
On the positive side, I've always fancied visiting Edinburgh / Glasgow and John O'Groats, so I'll definitely wait for the outcome of the vote; if it's a Yes it's about to become about 30% cheaper.
Sadly it's going to be a No.
Worth a punt after they bottom out in a month or so ?
These people are going to blame the English for NOT lying to them...
English politicians offering Devomax and more treats for the north will be slaughtered at the polls.
- a statement of intent. We were not fibbing about a currency union so better get used to importing your notes from 'abroad'
- Alex Salmond was lying to you all along
- We are not going to roll over in the negotiations
Wouldn't change the result, but might have a bearing on future elections and the negotiated outcomes?
Especially if it is also a "State" one like the BBC?
If the state got out of the soap opera business where it has no place being then we could enjoy multiple deregulated channels competing in an open market. And no biased BBC and no telly tax.
One pleasant bonus of a YES vote will be the dismemberment of the BBC.
"In light trading today, Amalgamated Haggis was down three pence...."
Southern and Foreign Energy - the big site at Perth will move to Southampton leaving a call centre.
For instance, to claim that the BBC would cost money to listen to in iScotland, or that we wouldn't get Dr Who, ignored the existence of the present licence fee tax, and what happens in Ireland etc. And to imply (for instance) that EWNI wouldn't take good money to let us like the Irish watch Dr Who, just out of spite, portrayed the English, rather ironically, in a most unfortunate manner when the Yes campaign (full of the English) or the Scots generally (vide spectators at Commonwealth Games) just don't think that way, despite what is being said here.
Other stories were pretty easily refuted by media reports or by simple discussion. Look at mobile phone roaming charges - proven nonsense on the day of publication. And state pensions accrued to date - look what happens in Spain with UK expats.
And add the effect of stupid stories such as panda deportation, driving on the right ((c) A. Burnham), and the OTT ones like danger form outer space, and Armageddon ((c) G. Robertson).
People don't always have the expertise to judge all the issues but they can tell when they are being bullshitted on things they do know about and it affects their view of the credibility of the rest. And that has been a very important element of the discussions going on in Scotland in recent weeks.
O a related issue, an interesting piece in the Graun which reinforces my view that indyref is all about moving from No to Yes as one gets to know the unfamiliar option as well as the status quo (or what ysed to be the status quo).
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/07/scottish-independence-referendum-research-more-information-likely-vote-yes
PS Actual fact (definitely true, I read it on Twitter): Scotland doesn't have legal tender laws.
It would serve as a reminder to 'independent' Scots of who was pulling Eck's strings.
Edit to add: and you travel more than I do, but the border controls I encounter even when they exist are pretty minimal these days.
Train will be more interesting - passport control and luggage checks before boarding like Eurostar ?
The consequence of this is that Scottish bank notes are - effectively - fully underwritten by the BoE. I believe - although I could be wrong - that you can turn up in Threadneedle Street, hand over a Scottish bank note to the cashier, they will hand you a crisp BoE one. They will then reduce the amount that the Scottish bank is required to deposit with the BoE.
There is no reason why this should change immediately post independence vote.
Of course, there's an easy answer: an English Parliament. But Westminster won't go for that because it'd emasculate Parliament as is, leaving it with just Treasury, Foreign and Defence departments.
So, instead I imagine we'll either get English votes on English matters (better but probably insufficient) or the attempt to carve up England (absolutely despicable and unacceptable).
Latest Populus VI: Lab 36 (-2), Con 34 (+2), LD 9 (+1), UKIP 12 (-2), Oth 9 (+1). Tables here: http://popu.lu/s_vi140908
The Unions seem bent on stirring up trouble and strife (strikes) - another winter of discontent before a GE? Double trouble for EdM.