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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the betting market IndyRef NO and UKIP in Clacton drop:

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited September 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the betting market IndyRef NO and UKIP in Clacton drop: EdM as next PM and LAB most seats rise

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  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    First?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Like Ed
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    IndyRef NO doesn't look like an 80% to me.
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    Hugh said:

    IndyRef NO doesn't look like an 80% to me.

    What does it look like then?
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Telegraph readers can't be trusted to leave sane, non racist comments beneath articles about Rotherham scandal.

    That speaks volumes.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014
    Dave talking about "Barbarism" from Jihadists in the middle east

    Maybe his favourite Smiths song should change from 'This Charming Man' to "Barabarism Begins At Home"?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc1ObUMFWMo
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    isam said:

    Dave talking about "Barbarism" from Jihadists in the middle east

    When is he gpoing to start talking about barbarism from pretty much the same lot in Middle England?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The great grandson of one of the co-founders of the Labour Party will stand for Parliament in next year’s General Election as Ukip’s candidate for Alyn and Deeside.
    Blair Smillie, from Higher Kinnerton, revealed to The Chronicle that he will not follow in great grandfather Robert Smillie’s footsteps and will instead stand for Ukip.
    However, the 61-year-old says his famous ancestor would back his decision."

    http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-businessman-who-great-grandson-7697481
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BenM said:

    Telegraph readers can't be trusted to leave sane, non racist comments beneath articles about Rotherham scandal.

    That speaks volumes.

    Or maybe articles on the Telegraph website are accessible to large numbers of people who don't usually read the paper. It's this thing called the internet, where you can freely access millions of websites from virtually any computer on the world. You might have heard of it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    edited September 2014
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Edited extra bit: these aren't tips (I shan't be including them in my 'official' figures') but I've made some early bets on Monza:
    Bottas win each way 15
    Bottas pole each way 17
    Williams top score 7

    Basically, this is because Monza is a collection of straight lines. And the Williams is the fastest car in a straight line. Only Mercedes should have a chance of beating them.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    Telegraph readers can't be trusted to leave sane, non racist comments beneath articles about Rotherham scandal.

    That speaks volumes.

    Or maybe articles on the Telegraph website are accessible to large numbers of people who don't usually read the paper. It's this thing called the internet, where you can freely access millions of websites from virtually any computer on the world. You might have heard of it.
    Nah. They know their audience.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    Telegraph readers can't be trusted to leave sane, non racist comments beneath articles about Rotherham scandal.

    That speaks volumes.

    Or maybe articles on the Telegraph website are accessible to large numbers of people who don't usually read the paper. It's this thing called the internet, where you can freely access millions of websites from virtually any computer on the world. You might have heard of it.
    Nah. They know their audience.
    Fancy that 2/7 Labour in Rotherham? Best odds anywhere in the world
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited September 2014
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Typical Dundonians!

    Alex Salmond was mobbed by supporters as he campaigned for independence on the streets of Dundee today.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/video-fantastic-response-for-alex-salmond-in-dundee-1.553505#articlecomment

    Full disclosure - author from Forfar!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    "The great grandson of one of the co-founders of the Labour Party will stand for Parliament in next year’s General Election as Ukip’s candidate for Alyn and Deeside.
    Blair Smillie, from Higher Kinnerton, revealed to The Chronicle that he will not follow in great grandfather Robert Smillie’s footsteps and will instead stand for Ukip.
    However, the 61-year-old says his famous ancestor would back his decision."

    http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-businessman-who-great-grandson-7697481

    He appears to have lasted about 4 months in Left Unity!

    http://leftunity.org/blair-smillie-why-ive-joined/
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Patrick said:

    But as far as I know it is only the Muslims that get involved in beheadings, gang child rape, stonings, perpetual jihad, honour killings and all the rest - with a brazen 'two fingers' to the rest of us. Britain is a wonderfully tolerant and receptive host culture - and has been for centuries. But this one may be an integration too far. Delighted to have people of Pakistani ethnicity here. The fundamentlists can eff off ta v much.

    The problem is there is a gulf between the true moderates and the fundamentalists. We need to stop pretending that the noxious cultural elements are confined to 1% of British Muslims and confront it more widely. The intellectual debate and publicity from it will force people to move to become more moderate to defend their positions. This is what happened to Christians and Jews in the 18th-20th centuries, and it's what needs to happen to Muslims now.
    HurstLlama said:

    Hodges column is brilliant? Really? He acknowledges that over the centuries we have welcomed immigrants from all faiths and all races and they have integrated successfully. He then suggests a Royal Commission or some such to investigate our failure to get some of the Muslims living here to integrate. Eh? When did it become our failure?

    You can spend all the time in the world blaming it on other people, but we need to work out how to deal with it now.
    nigel4england said:


    It was always about realism, sensible people have been saying that for years.

    Quite. I've already noticed a change in thinking since the Rotherham allegations. It's become a final straw. The centre-right, which was sympathetic to these criticisms of Muslim integration has now become convinced by them, and the more open-minded elements of the centre-left has now accepted it's a major issue. Finally.
    AndyJS said:

    Surely Hodges already knows the answer? The religion is a supremacist one, which believes it is right and everyone else is wrong. Compromise is impossible.

    Islam isn't the first religion to state this. Other religions have also claimed it. The difference is that so many of their followers subscribe to the certainty of it. We need a major debate to highlight its contradictions. Then we will convert a lot more people into being vaguely Muslim of background, but otherwise culturally British and critical of non-integration.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Stumpy little arsehead wants to fiddle with the composition of Parliament's servants to fit in a candidate that nobody except him [and a panel of presumably narcoleptic buffoons] seems to want:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29011919

    Is this woman some sort of avatar of Athena that she must be foist upon Parliament, and Parliament's own structures gerrymandered to hasten her inclusion?

    Better to axe Bercow than accept this nonsense.
  • HughHugh Posts: 955
    Dave basically bringing back control orders.

    All that Tory posturing about civil liberties and nanny state when in opposition, like so much from Cameron a load of guff.

    And looks like the Lib Dems have basically given up.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Do you really want us fruitcakes, closet racists and loonies back TSE?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2014
    Would be nice!

    Election Forecast UK
    ‏@Election4castUK @GoodwinMJ @robfordmancs @Michael_Heaver Would be really helpful if Ashcroft did a batch of polls on the UKIP targets. Reply

    Matthew Goodwin ‏@GoodwinMJ · 3m
    @Election4castUK @robfordmancs @Michael_Heaver I imagine @LordAshcroft has various ideas up his sleeve regarding that one

    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 1m
    @GoodwinMJ @Election4castUK @robfordmancs @Michael_Heaver indeed!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, it falls to me to once again push uphill the Sisyphian rock and try to educate you:
    Carthage wasn't wiped out until the Third Punic War, nearly a century later. And it was then rebuilt.

    After Cannae Hannibal remained undefeated in Italy for a decade.

    He had to go back home because lesser men had lost Iberia to Scipio.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    nigel4england said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Do you really want us fruitcakes, closet racists and loonies back TSE?
    I want Roger Lord.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    edited September 2014
    nigel4england said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Do you really want us fruitcakes, closet racists and loonies back TSE?
    Fruitcakes, closet racists and loonies? I thought they were the Muslims Jihadists?

    :)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Theresa May looking about 100
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2014
    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The great grandson of one of the co-founders of the Labour Party will stand for Parliament in next year’s General Election as Ukip’s candidate for Alyn and Deeside.
    Blair Smillie, from Higher Kinnerton, revealed to The Chronicle that he will not follow in great grandfather Robert Smillie’s footsteps and will instead stand for Ukip.
    However, the 61-year-old says his famous ancestor would back his decision."

    http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-businessman-who-great-grandson-7697481

    He appears to have lasted about 4 months in Left Unity!

    http://leftunity.org/blair-smillie-why-ive-joined/
    More evidence UKIP is increasingly targetting Labour voters, believing they've already cleaned up most of the Tory support they're likely to get.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, it falls to me to once again push uphill the Sisyphian rock and try to educate you:
    Carthage wasn't wiped out until the Third Punic War, nearly a century later. And it was then rebuilt.

    After Cannae Hannibal remained undefeated in Italy for a decade.

    He had to go back home because lesser men had lost Iberia to Scipio.

    I said ultimately. Like kippers you're just focussed upon short term victories.

    Don't lose Zama, Carthage would still have existed.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Haha well phrased @TSE
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    BenM said:

    Socrates said:

    BenM said:

    Telegraph readers can't be trusted to leave sane, non racist comments beneath articles about Rotherham scandal.

    That speaks volumes.

    Or maybe articles on the Telegraph website are accessible to large numbers of people who don't usually read the paper. It's this thing called the internet, where you can freely access millions of websites from virtually any computer on the world. You might have heard of it.
    Nah. They know their audience.
    Do you have anything substantive to say about the topic or is it the usual "nothing to see, only racists want to talk about it, move along here" dog whistle?

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    isam said:

    Theresa May looking about 100

    It can't be a pleasant job. High level security 24 hours a day I expect.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Just a promise of a referendum!
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    I'm not particularly concerned that the Boris for Uxbridge slips are going to be worthless but interesting nonetheless:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2739363/ANDREW-PIERCE-The-Olympian-defeat-Boris-race-MP-Uxbridge.html
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Plus a free 5 year Labour government with Europhilia sauce.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, the Romans were defeated in Africa during the First Punic War and still won the war. The lesson of the Second was the importance of public patriotism and a sound constitution (incidentally, this is also why Bercow's attempt to modernise for the sake of it and carve himself a little empire is wrong).
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    AndyJS said:

    Neil said:

    AndyJS said:

    "The great grandson of one of the co-founders of the Labour Party will stand for Parliament in next year’s General Election as Ukip’s candidate for Alyn and Deeside.
    Blair Smillie, from Higher Kinnerton, revealed to The Chronicle that he will not follow in great grandfather Robert Smillie’s footsteps and will instead stand for Ukip.
    However, the 61-year-old says his famous ancestor would back his decision."

    http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-businessman-who-great-grandson-7697481

    He appears to have lasted about 4 months in Left Unity!

    http://leftunity.org/blair-smillie-why-ive-joined/
    More evidence UKIP is increasingly targetting Labour voters, believing they've already cleaned up most of the Tory support they're likely to get.
    Meh, the guy seems to think he's more Tory than Labour but he's been a member of Labour and Left Unity (!) before trying UKIP (the last three, it seems, within the space of a year). I dont think he is personally evidence of much.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster. Fighting it from a position of weakness against the full establishment would surely result in a NO - thus killing any chance of actually leaving. It would be like England invading France alone in 1942. Sometimes you need to avoid battle until you can win. Read your Sun Zi.

    Farage, rightly in my opinion (from a long term strategic point of view) wants Dave to lose (highly likely), Redward to be a complete disaster (racing cert) and a re-united right to take power in 2020+ (somewhat likely). Only from that position would the actual exit be deliverable. A Farage/BoJO/Carswell driven referendum MIGHT win. A 2017 one just won't.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    Not defending them on GCHQ but it would have been people who were thought to be jihadists, not just actual jihadists, and there would be false positives, so in both cases we'd be talking about innocent Britons. Also, as with reading emails, unaccountable power is always abused and expanded, so over time it would spread beyond suspected jihadists. It's easier to nip this stuff in the bud before it's applied to the initial target (usually terrorists), and almost impossible to roll it back once it's been implemented and gradually expanded.

    PS I didn't catch the statement so I don't know if I should be saying "would have been" or "will be".
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster. Fighting it from a position of weakness against the full establishment would surely result in a NO - thus killing any chance of actually leaving. It would be like England invading France alone in 1942. Sometimes you need to avoid battle until you can win. Read your Sun Zi.

    Farage, rightly in my opinion (from a long term strategic point of view) wants Dave to lose (highly likely), Redward to be a complete disaster (racing cert) and a re-united right to take power in 2020+ (somewhat likely). Only from that position would the actual exit be deliverable. A Farage/BoJO/Carswell driven referendum MIGHT win. A 2017 one just won't.

    Yep
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster.

    Have you that little confidence in the cause?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Plus a free 5 year Labour government with Europhilia sauce.
    Kippers are committing the second worse strategic and tactical descision since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Just a promise of a referendum!
    Dave will get replaced if he doesn't deliver

  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    According to the Daily Mash the threat level has risen to "underpants".
    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/uk-threat-level-raised-to-underpants-20070701251
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Depending on how you mean that, either I won't get it in either case because neither UKIP or the Tories will form a majority government, or I will get it in both cases because both UKIP and Tory MPs will vote for one in 2017.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Kippers faith in their cause and the British public is touching they don't want to hold a referendum lest they lose it.

    Sack up you Kippers.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    I wonder what year Farage thinks a Conservative, UKIP or Con-KIP coalition would come to power if the right splinters in 2015. 2025? 2030?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Neil said:

    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster.

    Have you that little confidence in the cause?
    TBF a lot of sceptics reckon that the correctness of their view will become gradually more apparent over time, in which case a later referendum is better for them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Hugh said:

    IndyRef NO doesn't look like an 80% to me.

    More like 95+%
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    edited September 2014
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Plus a free 5 year Labour government with Europhilia sauce.
    Kippers are committing the second worse strategic and tactical descision since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.

    "Oh, I'm afraid the Labour majority will still be operational when your Tory friends arrive!"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster. Fighting it from a position of weakness against the full establishment would surely result in a NO - thus killing any chance of actually leaving. It would be like England invading France alone in 1942. Sometimes you need to avoid battle until you can win. Read your Sun Zi.

    Farage, rightly in my opinion (from a long term strategic point of view) wants Dave to lose (highly likely), Redward to be a complete disaster (racing cert) and a re-united right to take power in 2020+ (somewhat likely). Only from that position would the actual exit be deliverable. A Farage/BoJO/Carswell driven referendum MIGHT win. A 2017 one just won't.

    Boris will be an 'in'er.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    Certainly on the American's list.

    http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Kippers faith in their cause and the British public is touching they don't want to hold a referendum lest they lose it.

    Sack up you Kippers.

    Will you head off to Syria or Iraq if Ed wins in 2015?

    :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited September 2014
    I'm sure malcolm will be delighted (or not) to learn that the 'Yes shop burnt down by No supporters' was in fact:

    - Not a 'Yes' shop - but an empty shop with Yes stickers on it
    - It was a bin outside the shop that was set alight and
    - Not even the Yes stickers on the shop suffered damage.

    I'm sure he'll be rushing to criticise those who spread such false and malicious rumours....or not...

    twitter.com/steve_tosh/status/506459932645146624/photo/1
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    The vast majority of seats will not be like Clacton.

  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edmundintokyo said:

    Neil said:

    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster.

    Have you that little confidence in the cause?
    TBF a lot of sceptics reckon that the correctness of their view will become gradually more apparent over time, in which case a later referendum is better for them.
    How does 2047 suit them?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Latest ElectionForecast vote shares:

    Con 33.0%
    Lab 31.8%
    LD 14.1%
    UKIP 10.9%

    Con and Lab are about right IMO, but I'd probably swap LD and UKIP.

    http://electionforecast.co.uk/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    The vast majority of seats will not be like Clacton.

    Luke = David Cameron

    Darth Vader = Farage


    Nigel to Dave: No, I am your father.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    Is it 100% certain there will be a Clacton by-election?

    My understanding is you are allowed to wait 6 months before calling a BE.

    Even if Carswell resigns today (has he?) then 6 months takes us to 1 March. If a BE is called on 1 March it would not take place until Parliament has dissolved - so would not happen.

    If Con just wait and even if Lab moves writ then Con could oppose it. A UKIP boost will also harm LD so Cameron should be able to get Clegg's support.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    The vast majority of seats will not be like Clacton.

    Luke = David Cameron

    Darth Vader = Farage


    Nigel to Dave: No, I am your father.

    An oft misquoted line.

    Should be: "No, Luke Dave. I am your father.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    * Diplomacy Post*

    Just a reminder to those in game IV of 2014 you have just over an hour to submit your moves. Some of you might want to take the chance to do some diplomacy, you know that that stuff that the game is about. Diplomacy, the clue is in the name, FFS.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    Wouldn't we need to repudiate a while bunch of international treaties to make people stateless?

    I wonder what the tax position of a stateless person is? Perhaps some hedge fund managers will claim to be jihadists to lose their passports :-)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    The vast majority of seats will not be like Clacton.

    Luke = David Cameron

    Darth Vader = Farage


    Nigel to Dave: No, I am your father.

    Does this make Redward Jar Jar Binks?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    MikeL said:

    Is it 100% certain there will be a Clacton by-election?

    My understanding is you are allowed to wait 6 months before calling a BE.

    Even if Carswell resigns today (has he?) then 6 months takes us to 1 March. If a BE is called on 1 March it would not take place until Parliament has dissolved - so would not happen.

    If Con just wait and even if Lab moves writ then Con could oppose it. A UKIP boost will also harm LD so Cameron should be able to get Clegg's support.

    Desperate stuff even by PB Tories standards
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Kippers faith in their cause and the British public is touching they don't want to hold a referendum lest they lose it.

    Sack up you Kippers.

    Will you head off to Syria or Iraq if Ed wins in 2015?

    :)
    Nah. I'm staying. It'll be fun winding up the Kippers for not giving us a referendum.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    MikeL said:

    Is it 100% certain there will be a Clacton by-election?

    Yes, it is.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, it falls to me to once again push uphill the Sisyphian rock and try to educate you:
    Carthage wasn't wiped out until the Third Punic War, nearly a century later. And it was then rebuilt.

    After Cannae Hannibal remained undefeated in Italy for a decade.

    He had to go back home because lesser men had lost Iberia to Scipio.

    I said ultimately. Like kippers you're just focussed upon short term victories.

    Don't lose Zama, Carthage would still have existed.

    By the way, did either of you read Mary Gentle's book on Carthage? A novel take on the situation
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    MikeL said:

    Is it 100% certain there will be a Clacton by-election?

    My understanding is you are allowed to wait 6 months before calling a BE.

    Even if Carswell resigns today (has he?) then 6 months takes us to 1 March. If a BE is called on 1 March it would not take place until Parliament has dissolved - so would not happen.

    If Con just wait and even if Lab moves writ then Con could oppose it. A UKIP boost will also harm LD so Cameron should be able to get Clegg's support.

    EiT pointed out that - technically - Carswell would need to be appointed to a Crown post to cease being an MP. If that were to be delayed by a few months, then a byelection could also be avoided.

    I don't happen to think that Cameron is that slimy. But it's possible.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Kippers faith in their cause and the British public is touching they don't want to hold a referendum lest they lose it.

    Sack up you Kippers.

    Will you head off to Syria or Iraq if Ed wins in 2015?

    :)
    Nah. I'm staying. It'll be fun winding up the Kippers for not giving us a referendum.
    So Dave will lose because he is as crap as Admiral Ozzel?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Patrick said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    The vast majority of seats will not be like Clacton.

    Luke = David Cameron

    Darth Vader = Farage


    Nigel to Dave: No, I am your father.

    Does this make Redward Jar Jar Binks?
    Admiral Ozzell.

    Even his own side want to choke him
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    rcs1000 said:



    EiT pointed out that - technically - Carswell would need to be appointed to a Crown post to cease being an MP. If that were to be delayed by a few months, then a byelection could also be avoided.

    I don't happen to think that Cameron is that slimy. But it's possible.

    The appointment to be Steward of the Duchy of so-and-so has already happened. Carswell is no longer an MP.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, it falls to me to once again push uphill the Sisyphian rock and try to educate you:
    Carthage wasn't wiped out until the Third Punic War, nearly a century later. And it was then rebuilt.

    After Cannae Hannibal remained undefeated in Italy for a decade.

    He had to go back home because lesser men had lost Iberia to Scipio.

    I said ultimately. Like kippers you're just focussed upon short term victories.

    Don't lose Zama, Carthage would still have existed.

    By the way, did either of you read Mary Gentle's book on Carthage? A novel take on the situation
    Is on my list
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    They almost have a country now, they's are getting perilously close to what you mighty call "an army".

    Surely we should be prepared to ally ourselves with anyone to defeat the loathsome IS, if necessary stabbing them in the back afterwards (see "perfidious Albion").

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2014
    Introducing the newly-appointed Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, Mr John Douglas Wilson Carswell:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Steward_and_Bailiff_of_the_Manor_of_Northstead

    The appointer was Mr George Gideon Oliver Osborne.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    edited September 2014
    Mr. Charles, no, but I shall peruse it on Amazon and perhaps make a note to buy it later.

    Edited extra bit: what's the title, incidentally?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    rcs1000 said:

    Carswell would need to be appointed to a Crown post to cease being an MP. If that were to be delayed by a few months

    Already done:

    http://www.hmtreasury.presscentre.com/content/detail.aspx?ReleaseID=433323&NewsAreaId=2
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    Wouldn't we need to repudiate a while bunch of international treaties to make people stateless?

    I wonder what the tax position of a stateless person is? Perhaps some hedge fund managers will claim to be jihadists to lose their passports :-)
    I'm pretty sure that one of the bits of being a jihadist is having your bank accounts frozen. A bit of a downer for your hedge fund manager I would think.
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    Neil said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Neil said:

    Patrick said:

    For those who genuinely want out, an EU referndum in 2017 would be an unmitigated disaster.

    Have you that little confidence in the cause?
    TBF a lot of sceptics reckon that the correctness of their view will become gradually more apparent over time, in which case a later referendum is better for them.
    How does 2047 suit them?
    Quite and what a load of twaddle from the booers. Not long ago they were wanting the thing brought forward. If their case really stacks up it shouldn't matter when it's held. Personally I wish my party would back a referendum (as it did pre 2010) and get the bloody thing done with.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    JohnLilburne said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    They almost have a country now, they's are getting perilously close to what you mighty call "an army".

    The PKK and the Peshmerga are very different.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited September 2014
    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    That might have something to do with the fact that being left stateless is a massively serious penalty, effectively wrecking your life, whereas having a computer scan the headers of your emails (along with billions of other emails) has precisely zero practical impact on your life.

    Your lack of perspective on different aspects of civil liberties is breath-taking.

    Oh, and by the way, they are alleged jihadists, not jihadists. People genuinely concerned about civil liberties think this is an important distinction.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    John Baron criticising Cam...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Neil said:

    I'm not particularly concerned that the Boris for Uxbridge slips are going to be worthless but interesting nonetheless:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2739363/ANDREW-PIERCE-The-Olympian-defeat-Boris-race-MP-Uxbridge.html

    Doubts were expressed on here about whether Boris was a natural fit for a constituency so close to Heathrow, which he wants to downsize to a gliding club while the jobs go to Boris Island, so it is interesting that the Mail makes the same point.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Neil said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    They almost have a country now, they's are getting perilously close to what you mighty call "an army".

    The PKK and the Peshmerga are very different.
    How come the Kurds of Iraq can have virtually their own independent state but the Kurds of Turkey and Iran can't?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,528
    rcs1000 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    So vote Tory and get one in 2017.

    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Surely that depends on what constituency you're in.

    If you're in Clacton, you can vote UKIP safe in the knowledge that there will be either a UKIP or a Conservative MP elected. One presumes that UKIP MPs will vote for the EU Referendum Bill, 2017, were it proposed.

    In other constituencies the calculation is different.

    Voting UKIP makes sense if you live in a safe Conservative, Labour, or Lib Dem seat.

    It also makes sense if you live in a seat that UKIP has a chance of winning.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Neil said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    They almost have a country now, they's are getting perilously close to what you mighty call "an army".

    The PKK and the Peshmerga are very different.
    How come the Kurds of Iraq can have virtually their own independent state but the Kurds of Turkey and Iran can't?
    How can you be so mean as to overlook the Kurds of Syria?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    Wouldn't we need to repudiate a while bunch of international treaties to make people stateless?

    I wonder what the tax position of a stateless person is? Perhaps some hedge fund managers will claim to be jihadists to lose their passports :-)
    I doubt they'd want the scrutiny of their offshore assets...
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Plus a free 5 year Labour government with Europhilia sauce.
    Kippers are committing the second worse strategic and tactical descision since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.

    I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    When Darth Farage ensures the evil Labour Empire will be back in charge for 5 long tough years I will hoping to be frozen in carobonite until 2020..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    Neil said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Neil said:

    JohnLilburne said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    PS Are the PKK still on the terrorist list? Are people allowed to fight with them against ISIS? Maybe they could have a special category like "friendly terrorist"?

    They almost have a country now, they's are getting perilously close to what you mighty call "an army".

    The PKK and the Peshmerga are very different.
    How come the Kurds of Iraq can have virtually their own independent state but the Kurds of Turkey and Iran can't?
    How can you be so mean as to overlook the Kurds of Syria?

    Of course! Oops!
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited September 2014
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Socrates said:

    It's curious that the Lib Dems have pushed more on protecting jihadists right not to be left stateless than on innocent Britons' rights to not have their personal communications read by GCHQ agents.

    That might have something to do with the fact that being left stateless is a massively serious penalty, effectively wrecking your life, whereas having a computer scan the headers of your emails (along with billions of other emails) has precisely zero practical impact on your life.

    Your lack of perspective on different aspects of civil liberties is breath-taking.
    I'm not talking about computers scanning the headers of your email. I'm talking about them getting screenshots of your communications via webcam.

    But how about a compromise. Why don't we say the government can do both, but they need a judicial warrant on a case by case basis to do it rather than by executive fiat?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    MAtthew Parris & Tim Montgomerie are having the same argument

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/steerpike/2014/09/a-thundering-row-on-the-right/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-thundering-row-on-the-right&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    AndyJS said:

    Introducing the newly-appointed Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead, Mr John Douglas Wilson Carswell:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Steward_and_Bailiff_of_the_Manor_of_Northstead

    The appointer was Mr George Gideon Oliver Osborne.

    Still hasn't updated his Linked In profile.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Socrates said:

    I'm not talking about computers scanning the headers of your email. I'm talking about them getting screenshots of your communications via webcam.

    Well, that's currently illegal, and if it has been happening then all parties, including the LibDems and the Conservatives, agree that it should be stopped.

    My point would still apply even to that illegal activity, though.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Socrates said:

    I'm not talking about computers scanning the headers of your email. I'm talking about them getting screenshots of your communications via webcam.

    Well, that's currently illegal, and if it has been happening then all parties, including the LibDems and the Conservatives, agree that it should be stopped.

    My point would still apply even to that illegal activity, though.
    So the government has been breaking the law then?

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/gchq-nsa-webcam-images-internet-yahoo
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Charles said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Eagles, it falls to me to once again push uphill the Sisyphian rock and try to educate you:
    Carthage wasn't wiped out until the Third Punic War, nearly a century later. And it was then rebuilt.

    After Cannae Hannibal remained undefeated in Italy for a decade.

    He had to go back home because lesser men had lost Iberia to Scipio.

    I said ultimately. Like kippers you're just focussed upon short term victories.

    Don't lose Zama, Carthage would still have existed.

    By the way, did either of you read Mary Gentle's book on Carthage? A novel take on the situation
    Is on my list
    I enjoyed it, but don't let it displac serious history. Plot based around the Carthagians and Burgundians ganging up on the French :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,112
    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Socrates said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    UKIP heading for a milestone. But will it be an victory like Cannae (tactically awesome but not a strategic breakthrough)?

    Yes it is like Cannae, overrated numpty gets a hollow victory but ultimately sets himself for a defeat that wipes out his people forever

    Explains why Kippers don't want a referendum, it will be their Zama
    Strange then, that Carswell voted for a referendum now, while the bulk of the other three parties didn't.
    Do you want a referendum in 2017 or do you want one after Ed has been PM?

    A simple yes or no will suffice
    Yes.
    Voting kipper won't get you one in 2017
    Plus a free 5 year Labour government with Europhilia sauce.
    Kippers are committing the second worse strategic and tactical descision since Emperor Palpatine allowed the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.

    I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    When Darth Farage ensures the evil Labour Empire will be back in charge for 5 long tough years I will hoping to be frozen in carbonite until 2020..
    http://www.starwars.com/games-apps/star-wars-crawl-creator
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Charles, no, but I shall peruse it on Amazon and perhaps make a note to buy it later.

    Edited extra bit: what's the title, incidentally?

    Ash: A Secret History

    Some parts of it might be consider conjecture
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