Mr. Llama, you'll end up being a candidate if you're not careful. What is UKIP's policy on space cannons, genetically engineered fish, and the use of trebuchets and solar death rays in the justice system?
Mr. Dancer, I had a cup of tea with the Arundel and South Downs UKIP PPC a week or so ago. Chap by the name of Peter Grace, ex-RN submariner (lower deck) and top-hole bloke and I tried to nudge him towards the Morris Dancer Party's 2010 manifesto, don't think he was too convinced. Your idea that school uniform should be compulsory for all attractive young ladies aged between 16 and 24 went down very badly with his wife.
What happens to 'top blokes' when they have to make 'hard choices'?
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
IMO Farage's answer is obvious: you can't trust any of the other parties to keep promises on putative referenda.
Yes because no one will ever be able to prove that they're not going to do something two years before they have said they will do it.
It is certainly a line of attack but of course the nearer the Kippers come to being a mainstream party (didn't Nige say how he liked to think that they might be the deciding factor in the GE) then the less effective the attacks against "LabLibCon" will be.
"Dear God another one who can't even flounce off properly."
I think I said I'd crawl under a French stone.
Well I have and I've just crawled out again...................
I agree with you about Tim the one of the finest posters PB has ever had. Odd though that you should know him as I don't remember a "TOPPING" when Tim was around
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
Like saying YES is going to win.
Don't misunderstand me; emotionally I like the idea of an independent Scotland within the EU but it's being handled in such a piecemeal, disorganised fashion.
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
It's gone down a treat (if you consider a bucket of cold sick a treat).
'The former Liberal Democrat MSP Margaret Smith, a no voter, tweeted that it was "absolutely appalling. Apart from the ref[erence] to phones that could have been produced for the 79 referendum." Sandra Grieve, former convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, told the Guardian that the advert had finally convinced her to vote yes. "It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was a very clear no," said Grieve, who was a member of the Scottish Constitutional Convention which developed the framework for devolution, "but I've been increasingly uncomfortable with what I experience as a condescending smugness from Better Together."'
France will just plough on until the whole place explodes, it's their history, they can't do gradual change I'm afraid.
Mitterand managed to some extent, but I can't see Hollande doing anything significant. He was a very bad choice of candidate for the Socialists.
There was an article in the Times today about some of the ludicrous regulations businesses in France have to put up with. The most striking was a rule that driving schools must have customer-accessible premises of at least 25 sq m and that there must be a customer service counter of at least 1 m width.
When I lived in Paris, I always used to be amused by the signs in every bus detailing the official priority order which would apply if there was a dispute about whether the windows should be opened. Not much has changed!
Of course it's not just the baleful effects of the regulations themselves, but the fact that they have to employ armies of bureaucrats to create and police all this nonsense.
It's gone down a treat (if you consider a bucket of cold sick a treat).
'The former Liberal Democrat MSP Margaret Smith, a no voter, tweeted that it was "absolutely appalling. Apart from the ref[erence] to phones that could have been produced for the 79 referendum." Sandra Grieve, former convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, told the Guardian that the advert had finally convinced her to vote yes. "It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was a very clear no," said Grieve, who was a member of the Scottish Constitutional Convention which developed the framework for devolution, "but I've been increasingly uncomfortable with what I experience as a condescending smugness from Better Together."'
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
It was a legitimate question regarding the central bank of a foreign country backing up Scotland's bank. As ever, Salmond did not explain why this would not be an issue if they using the pound sterling a la Panama.
"Dear God another one who can't even flounce off properly."
I think I said I'd crawl under a French stone.
Well I have and I've just crawled out again...................
I agree with you about Tim the one of the finest posters PB has ever had. Odd though that you should know him as I don't remember a "TOPPING" when Tim was around
Perhaps it was all that Pineau.
A relatively recent recruit to PB, plus lurking a bit before that, I've been here long enough to have interacted with him often enough and now to wish there were others here with his abilities.
France will just plough on until the whole place explodes, it's their history, they can't do gradual change I'm afraid.
Mitterand managed to some extent, but I can't see Hollande doing anything significant. He was a very bad choice of candidate for the Socialists.
There was an article in the Times today about some of the ludicrous regulations businesses in France have to put up with. The most striking was a rule that driving schools must have customer-accessible premises of at least 25 sq m and that there must be a customer service counter of at least 1 m width.
When I lived in Paris, I always used to be amused by the signs in every bus detailing the official priority order which would apply if there was a dispute about whether the windows should be opened. Not much has changed!
Of course it's not just the baleful effects of the regulations themselves, but the fact that they have to employ armies of bureaucrats to create and police all this nonsense.
Mitterand still had some headroom on GDP, but when the government spends 3 out of every 5 euros where do you go next ?
Mr. Llama, you'll end up being a candidate if you're not careful. What is UKIP's policy on space cannons, genetically engineered fish, and the use of trebuchets and solar death rays in the justice system?
Mr. Dancer, I had a cup of tea with the Arundel and South Downs UKIP PPC a week or so ago. Chap by the name of Peter Grace, ex-RN submariner (lower deck) and top-hole bloke and I tried to nudge him towards the Morris Dancer Party's 2010 manifesto, don't think he was too convinced. Your idea that school uniform should be compulsory for all attractive young ladies aged between 16 and 24 went down very badly with his wife.
What happens to 'top blokes' when they have to make 'hard choices'?
Well, they actually make decisions that they think are in the best interests of the country. The problem isn't with top blokes having to make such decisions it is with weak little ex-SpAds who have never actually held own a proper job let alone made a life or death decision.
It's gone down a treat (if you consider a bucket of cold sick a treat).
'The former Liberal Democrat MSP Margaret Smith, a no voter, tweeted that it was "absolutely appalling. Apart from the ref[erence] to phones that could have been produced for the 79 referendum." Sandra Grieve, former convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, told the Guardian that the advert had finally convinced her to vote yes. "It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was a very clear no," said Grieve, who was a member of the Scottish Constitutional Convention which developed the framework for devolution, "but I've been increasingly uncomfortable with what I experience as a condescending smugness from Better Together."'
Mitterand still had some headroom on GDP, but when the government spends 3 out of every 5 euros where do you go next ?
That is I think the nub of the problem in an indirect way. The debate in France, and the reason the government had to be sacked and reformed, is all about so-called "austerité", and what they should do about public spending and taxes.
But that isn't their main problem. Their problem isn't macro-economic, it's the scelerotic nature of the labour market, the ludicrous over-regulation, the closed shops which apply to many of their professions and trades, the absurdly inflexible employment laws, the punitive taxes on employment, and the power of the unions.
Even if Hollande does tackle some of the macro-economic issues, I can't see him tackling these issues in any serious way. Sarkozy made a few token attempts, but didn't get very far. Hollande isn't even doing that much, in fact he started off by actively making things worse.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
One aspect of that is turnout. If you have one segment of your vote that can guarantee 100% turnout and another segment that gives say 40% at general elections and down to 20% otherwise then the first segment are 2.5 to 5 times more important per head.
The "community leader" system being what guarantees the 100% turnout.
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
It was a legitimate question regarding the central bank of a foreign country backing up Scotland's bank. As ever, Salmond did not explain why this would not be an issue if they using the pound sterling a la Panama.
The US federal reserve backed up Barclays to the tune of 500 Billion.
Mr. Divvie, the scale of the situation in Rotherham is worthy of discussion, and it's not as though we've neglected to talk about the Scottish referendum.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
A good article. It is not just the children who were let down by this approach but also the women and girls of Pakistani heritage who were also abandoned by a party which talked much about women's rights and ethnic minority rights but in practice did the square root of f*** all when it came to women from Pakistani communities.
See, for instance, this: "No, we soft-pedalled on extremism because we were afraid of being seen as racist or sectarian; we made base calculations about losing votes; or worse: because we simply didn’t see it for what it was." The author's not shy about naming some of the Labour MPs who, disgracefully, have associated themselves with extremists.
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
It was a legitimate question regarding the central bank of a foreign country backing up Scotland's bank. As ever, Salmond did not explain why this would not be an issue if they using the pound sterling a la Panama.
The US federal reserve backed up Barclays to the tune of 500 Billion.
Well then why didn't Salmond say this, rather than blustering about how the interviewer was playing as being Darling?
The reason I was drawn back by something as slight as your inaccurate Israeli posts (copyright Topping) was oddly enough because of the recent death of my aunt.
While rooting through old family photos I found one of her standing next to Saddam Hussain which took me down memory lane........ She was a journalist who wrote articles and books about the Israeli conflict and was one of the first Jewish writers to take up the Palestinian cause. It nearly ruined her career. Prominent Jewish firms threatened to remove their advertising if her articles appeared and too many newspapers reluctantly dropped her
So when I read Richard's little eulogy to your fine posting (which generally I agree with) out of loyalty and not a little anger at the kind of propaganda she obsessively spent her life fighting I thought speaking up was the least I could do
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
It was a legitimate question regarding the central bank of a foreign country backing up Scotland's bank. As ever, Salmond did not explain why this would not be an issue if they using the pound sterling a la Panama.
The US federal reserve backed up Barclays to the tune of 500 Billion.
Well then why didn't Salmond say this, rather than blustering about how the interviewer was playing as being Darling?
In 100 years time, people will care whether Scotland is an independent country or not. No-one will care about a he-said she-said about Alex Salmond.
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
Even you must have been repelled by the First Minister's alternating boastfulness and petulance in that short uninformative interview. All round a poor show from Salmond.
Mr. Divvie, the scale of the situation in Rotherham is worthy of discussion, and it's not as though we've neglected to talk about the Scottish referendum.
Er, I was responding to to someone else's post on the subject, and then a response to my post. I'm entirely uninterested in preventing folk discussing Rotherham (and their discussion tbh); feel free to ignore my infrequent posts.
You unionists are not very bright, you think if you keep parroting something it will come true.
It was a legitimate question regarding the central bank of a foreign country backing up Scotland's bank. As ever, Salmond did not explain why this would not be an issue if they using the pound sterling a la Panama.
The US federal reserve backed up Barclays to the tune of 500 Billion.
Well then why didn't Salmond say this, rather than blustering about how the interviewer was playing as being Darling?
Splendid Yes woman talking to Jeremy vine at lunchtime. He said if you don't have your own currency you can't print money. She said oh yes you can, Scottish banks already print sterling banknotes. He said, Do you think you can go on doing that as an independent country, as if the French were to set up a sterling mint without UK permission. Her: Oooh, that's above my pay grade!
The reason I was drawn back by something as slight as your inaccurate Israeli posts (copyright Topping) was oddly enough because of the recent death of my aunt.
While rooting through old family photos I found one of her standing next to Saddam Hussain which took me down memory lane........ She was a journalist who wrote articles and books about the Israeli conflict and was one of the first Jewish writers to take up the Palestinian cause. It nearly ruined her career. Prominent Jewish firms threatened to remove their advertising if her articles appeared and too many newspapers reluctantly dropped her
So when I read Richard's little eulogy to your fine posting (which generally I agree with) out of loyalty and not a little anger at the kind of propaganda she obsessively spent her life fighting I thought speaking up was the least I could do
Roger: I'm sorry to hear that about your aunt. She sounds like a fine lady and what happened to her was wrong. And I can see why you would want to speak up. Good for you.
It is important that, even where we support a group, we criticise them when they do wrong. I can assure you that I am no uncritical supporter of Israel. Both they and the Palestinians badly need better leaders than the ones they have.
But as someone whose family had to hide during the war to escape the fate meted out to others and who has personal reasons for loathing the Islamists and their appeasers and supporters and excuse-makers in this country I felt it necessary to make some points which I felt others were ignoring.
Anyway we're free to disagree and do so in a civilised manner.
For all racists: "As has been stated many times before, there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation, and across the UK the greatest numbers of perpetrators of CSE are white men. The second largest category, according to the Children's Commissioner's report, are those from a minority ethnic background, particularly those recorded as 'Asian'." Rotherham report pgs 91-92
Staggering stupidity from Maguire,it's idiots like him branding anyone that comments about Rotherham et al as racists is why there was a massive cover up in the first place.
He forgot to mention the two sets of laws we have for child exploitation in this country.
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
Some nice noises, but little real action. He still refuses to open up the Catholic church to allow the police to investigate.
Jon Snow standing outside Rotherham Town Hall, where a crisis meeting is apparently taking place.
Snow opened with "and how will the Muslim community react to this"! WTF. Snow is more concerned about the reaction from the Muslims. Thankfully the investigation report that followed was more balanced in its focus. Later in the programme we now have a report into how football is failing to have asian professional players.....
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
Yeah, mate, the phrase 'clerical child abuse' was never used, as if that was the only kind there was.
And centuries of child abuse? Citation needed, methinks.
Also, your mention of a foreign country reminds me of the worldwide trawling for dirt the BBC and Guardian indulged in.
As for not letting Labour back in, there's clearly someone that could do something about: David Cameron could agree to Tory-UKIP pact. Farage would probably agree to it for a dozen or so seats. Then we would achieve your primary aim of preventing Miliband getting back in. Why won't he?
Because he's not stupid, because (as you yourself have just pointed out) Farage could not deliver on it, and because in any case what on earth would the pact be about? We're already going to get a referendum, if we get a Tory majority. So UKIP already have what they used to claim they wanted, in the days when they were coherent. Their current strategy is to refuse to take it, which doesn't leave much room for doing business together, does it?
Wait, so you're accepting my argument of UKIP not being able to put the Tories over the top if they didn't stand in seats?
That pretty much deconstructs your entire argument that UKIP should stand down in seats to allow the Tories to get over the top and give a referendum. You're the one being incoherent here.
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
Some nice noises, but little real action. He still refuses to open up the Catholic church to allow the police to investigate.
Yes, he could be doing more, but he's moving in the right direction. And Papal noises in Catholicism mean a great deal.
The one-in-fifty claim he made is, sadly, possibly correct, and mentioning it is a massive step forwards, especially in getting victims and others to come forwards.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
The use of "community leaders" is iniquitous, and merely is a way of enhancing the power of these people through patronage.
Jon Snow standing outside Rotherham Town Hall, where a crisis meeting is apparently taking place.
Snow opened with "and how will the Muslim community react to this"! WTF. Snow is more concerned about the reaction from the Muslims. Thankfully the investigation report that followed was more balanced in its focus. Later in the programme we now have a report into how football is failing to have asian professional players.....
Arhhh Jon Snow the man who admitted seeing "a man in his twenties "bashing" a much younger woman's face into the bonnet of a car". He just cycled off as fast as he could, and didn't report it.
Maybe he should stand for PCC at the next round of elections. Sounds perfect.
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
Yeah, mate, the phrase 'clerical child abuse' was never used, as if that was the only kind there was.
And centuries of child abuse? Citation needed, methinks.
Also, your mention of a foreign country reminds me of the worldwide trawling for dirt the BBC and Guardian indulged in.
Shame they didn't manage to get to Rotherham.
The term 'clerical child abuse' perfectly fits abuse by clerics. And the Irish stories (and there were others, fortunately less egregious examples here in the UK) are relevant.
You seem keen to bury Catholic child abuse in a septic tank. Fortunately you cannot.
Knowing where you were coming from-unlike some of the right wing Israeli posters- is why I picked you out. Having said that it's a subject we're best keeping clear of.
MD Thanks for your sympathy but not necessary. Though in her professional capacity she gave me my first significant cover to shoot and I have things to be grateful for in her later years she became very difficult person.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
He cannot bring himself to say that any council or police person should be held accountable for their lamentable failures. Its all lets move on and focus on the future... (Eamonn Holmes conducts a heated interview with Javed Khan, Chief Executive of the Barnardos children's charity, who was enlisted by South Yorkshire Police to help tackle child abuse in Rotherham.)
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
They'd need/want a green light from the political class.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
To be fair to the total moron that was in charge and now is PCC, he did say there were 200 ongoing criminal investigations. Now how many relate specifically to this period, and if the authorities are stuffed with other morons like him, is obviously unknown.
Time will tell if the media continue to shine a spotlight (like the Times did originally), if they continue to pressure the authorities to get out there and bring these people to justice.
Crimes committed against over 1400 kids were not committed by just 9 people.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
To be fair to the total moron that was in charge and now is PCC, he did say there were 200 ongoing criminal investigations. Now how many relate specifically to this period, and if the authorities are stuffed with other morons like him, is obviously unknown.
Yes he stood down over some sense of shame in Rotherham and then was punished by being made the Labour PCC candidate for South Yorks for a salary increase of >2x.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
To be fair to the total moron that was in charge and now is PCC, he did say there were 200 ongoing criminal investigations. Now how many relate specifically to this period, and if the authorities are stuffed with other morons like him, is obviously unknown.
hmm. This has been known for several years, I struggle to see why convictions take so long.
He cannot bring himself to say that any council or police person should be held accountable for their lamentable failures. Its all lets move on and focus on the future... (Eamonn Holmes conducts a heated interview with Javed Khan, Chief Executive of the Barnardos children's charity, who was enlisted by South Yorkshire Police to help tackle child abuse in Rotherham.)
Go and do some googling of his background and it will tell you all you need to know.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
The use of "community leaders" is iniquitous, and merely is a way of enhancing the power of these people through patronage.
It is also a very colonialist approach: it's how governors dealt with different communities in the lands they governed. That this approach should now be adopted by the Left is ironic.
It has also been adopted by the right. It was Michael Howard who, fatefully and wrongly IMO, post the Rushdie fatwa, adopted a policy of engaging with Muslims through community leaders.
There is also an insulting assumption in all this that members of that community are somehow not the same as other voters and can't be engaged with on a one-to-one basis and are only to be viewed through one particular prism i.e. the fact that their granny or whoever once lived in Pakistan or their religion and that this is the only important factor about them and the only one with which the authorities here will engage.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
To be fair to the total moron that was in charge and now is PCC, he did say there were 200 ongoing criminal investigations. Now how many relate specifically to this period, and if the authorities are stuffed with other morons like him, is obviously unknown.
Yes he stood down over some sense of shame in Rotherham and then was punished by being made the Labour PCC candidate for South Yorks for a salary increase of >2x.
Yes why did Labour select him when these issues were known about at the time?
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
To be fair to the total moron that was in charge and now is PCC, he did say there were 200 ongoing criminal investigations. Now how many relate specifically to this period, and if the authorities are stuffed with other morons like him, is obviously unknown.
Yes he stood down over some sense of shame in Rotherham and then was punished by being made the Labour PCC candidate for South Yorks for a salary increase of >2x.
Yes why did Labour select him when these issues were known about at the time?
because they got there first before Cameron could ?
What is it about lefties like Jones and Maguire? We arent children that need telling that just because a few Muslims abused kids, or just because a few celebrities did the same, that all people from those categories are child abusers.. it is they who divide everyone into blocks dependent on race, class etc, I prefer to use judgement
Well, @isam, both the BBC and The Guardian have boxed themselves into a corner.
When they opportunistically called child abuse a Catholic problem and went to town over it, they have made a mighty stiff rod for their own backs and also cannot use the truism "it's a social problem, not a Catholic/BBC/Muslim problem.
Oh come on, they never called child abuse 'a Catholic problem',
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
Yeah, mate, the phrase 'clerical child abuse' was never used, as if that was the only kind there was.
And centuries of child abuse? Citation needed, methinks.
Also, your mention of a foreign country reminds me of the worldwide trawling for dirt the BBC and Guardian indulged in.
Shame they didn't manage to get to Rotherham.
The term 'clerical child abuse' perfectly fits abuse by clerics. And the Irish stories (and there were others, fortunately less egregious examples here in the UK) are relevant.
You seem keen to bury Catholic child abuse in a septic tank. Fortunately you cannot.
The pulpit appeals from the Clergy to pay the ensuing bills were described by my Irish friends as the rape tax....
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
The use of "community leaders" is iniquitous, and merely is a way of enhancing the power of these people through patronage.
It is also a very colonialist approach: it's how governors dealt with different communities in the lands they governed. That this approach should now be adopted by the Left is ironic.
It has also been adopted by the right. It was Michael Howard who, fatefully and wrongly IMO, post the Rushdie fatwa, adopted a policy of engaging with Muslims through community leaders.
There is also an insulting assumption in all this that members of that community are somehow not the same as other voters and can't be engaged with on a one-to-one basis and are only to be viewed through one particular prism i.e. the fact that their granny or whoever once lived in Pakistan or their religion and that this is the only important factor about them and the only one with which the authorities here will engage.
Deeply patronising and insulting. And wrong.
I entirely agree, the colonialist mentality is strong.
It didn't used to be like that. Until the eighties Labour approach was via class issues much more than race and cultural ones.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
No she's not; the government should just get on and remove incompetent officials from their posts.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
The problems are:
1) You need something in that position; 2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
He cannot bring himself to say that any council or police person should be held accountable for their lamentable failures. Its all lets move on and focus on the future... (Eamonn Holmes conducts a heated interview with Javed Khan, Chief Executive of the Barnardos children's charity, who was enlisted by South Yorkshire Police to help tackle child abuse in Rotherham.)
Go and do some googling of his background and it will tell you all you need to know.
Goodness me. You are being very naive. If people in charge were held responsible for what they did or did not do, we'd probably have to build prisons all over whatever spare land we have left. The concept of responsibility is a ludicrously old-fashioned idea only held by a few unimportant people who remember life before being at the top meant something more substantial than a lot of titles and money and sinecure jobs and it is far better to spend a lot of time obsessing about crimes committed by a dead person we can do nothing about.
Can Eric Pickles not make anything happen via the DCLG?
Before everybody gets too politcal about it I was struck by a recurrent theme from the victim interviews I heard, namely that most of the people who committed these crimes are still roaming the streets unconvicted.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
They'd need/want a green light from the political class.
By "they" i mean senior plod who are ambitious to be chief constables one day not plod as a whole.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
The problems are:
1) You need something in that position; 2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
It's easy, non elected PCC who can be fired from the post, instead of elected PCC who have a conflict of interest when it come to crime investigations and cannot be removed until the next PCC election.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
The problems are:
1) You need something in that position; 2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
It is also dangerous for central government to sack local governments whenever they don't like them. It undermines democracy. The PCC should be exposed as a twerp, and the people of South Yorkshire should have to live with their donkey with a red rosette until it dawns on them to vote differently next time they have the chance!
Roger Indeed, particularly back when the Tories won majorities in Scotland
On PCCs, surely the voters will hold them accountable ultimately and throw them out if they refuse to go, that would not have been possible with the old Police Authorities
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
The use of "community leaders" is iniquitous, and merely is a way of enhancing the power of these people through patronage.
It is also a very colonialist approach: it's how governors dealt with different communities in the lands they governed. That this approach should now be adopted by the Left is ironic.
It has also been adopted by the right. It was Michael Howard who, fatefully and wrongly IMO, post the Rushdie fatwa, adopted a policy of engaging with Muslims through community leaders.
There is also an insulting assumption in all this that members of that community are somehow not the same as other voters and can't be engaged with on a one-to-one basis and are only to be viewed through one particular prism i.e. the fact that their granny or whoever once lived in Pakistan or their religion and that this is the only important factor about them and the only one with which the authorities here will engage.
Deeply patronising and insulting. And wrong.
I entirely agree, the colonialist mentality is strong.
It didn't used to be like that. Until the eighties Labour approach was via class issues much more than race and cultural ones.
Well using class is equally daft and insulting, though it has the merit of being somewhat more Marxist in its approach than the others, I suppose.
Why can't Labour try, just bloody try, to engage with people as individuals? You know: one man - one vote / one woman - one vote. Actually listen to what people have to say not seek to put them in some sort of box and then talk at them as if they were mental deficients who could only understand one thing.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
The problems are:
1) You need something in that position; 2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
It is also dangerous for central government to sack local governments whenever they don't like them. It undermines democracy. The PCC should be exposed as a twerp, and the people of South Yorkshire should have to live with their donkey with a red rosette until it dawns on them to vote differently next time they have the chance!
What the heck has crime have to do with democracy? The people themselves don't want to have elected PCC's.
''The real truth is that Labour wants Pakistani votes, and, as in some many other towns, simply sub-contracts its relationship with minority communities to self-appointed community leaders who ‘deliver’ at election time. There is no interest in exploring problems from within these communities.''
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
I used to be in the Labour Party, and reasonably active. Applied to London Labour in the 1990s, that is spot on.
The use of "community leaders" is iniquitous, and merely is a way of enhancing the power of these people through patronage.
It is also a very colonialist approach: it's how governors dealt with different communities in the lands they governed. That this approach should now be adopted by the Left is ironic.
It has also been adopted by the right. It was Michael Howard who, fatefully and wrongly IMO, post the Rushdie fatwa, adopted a policy of engaging with Muslims through community leaders.
There is also an insulting assumption in all this that members of that community are somehow not the same as other voters and can't be engaged with on a one-to-one basis and are only to be viewed through one particular prism i.e. the fact that their granny or whoever once lived in Pakistan or their religion and that this is the only important factor about them and the only one with which the authorities here will engage.
Deeply patronising and insulting. And wrong.
I entirely agree, the colonialist mentality is strong.
It didn't used to be like that. Until the eighties Labour approach was via class issues much more than race and cultural ones.
Well using class is equally daft and insulting, though it has the merit of being somewhat more Marxist in its approach than the others, I suppose.
Why can't Labour try, just bloody try, to engage with people as individuals? You know: one man - one vote / one woman - one vote. Actually listen to what people have to say not seek to put them in some sort of box and then talk at them as if they were mental deficients who could only understand one thing.
Actually, this could apply to all parties.
Isn't the problem that there are kind of a lot of us in the country, so on some level you have to generalise?
And when you generalise you find that there is no "average person" but you can get closer to replicating reality by grouping people into categories. But I agree the grouping is often done along the wrong lines
Roger Indeed, particularly back when the Tories won majorities in Scotland
On PCCs, surely the voters will hold them accountable ultimately and throw them out if they refuse to go, that would not have been possible with the old Police Authorities
Elected Sherriffs and elected prosecutors work really well in america, not. You need a professional on serious specific posts, not elected politicians who have nothing to do with the object just to sit around and abuse it. Or else why not have elected judges, then everyone who promises to vote for him can walk free.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
How many elected PCC have now shamed their office? Its time to abolish the post of elected PCC before the police is seriously and permanently damaged.
But you can't even think about sacking them unless they are charged with a criminal offence with a sentence of 2 years or more.Unless they commit GBH,rape or murder you can't get rid of them. How in any sense is this a benefit to democracy?
TUD Well you posted her comments, I would expect she was always leaning Yes anyway, the Yes camp just wheeled her out publically now for maximum impact
Speedy Well at least those who prosecute crime are directly accountable for their results, and of course Americans also sensibly hold their Sheriff and Prosecutor elections at the same time as the other state and national elections
"Isn't the problem that there are kind of a lot of us in the country, so on some level you have to generalise?
And when you generalise you find that there is no "average person" but you can get closer to replicating reality by grouping people into categories. But I agree the grouping is often done along the wrong lines"
Maybe. But politicians might have a better press if they made the effort to understand the variety and range of experiences of people living here and the nuances in their views and their hopes and fears not treat us all as sheep who have to be herded into some sort of category so that we can be patronised and talked down to and "sold" a "narrative" dreamt up by some sort of 20-year old political estate agent.
Maybe they might then become something akin to a mass party rather than groupuscules taken over by committed loons and/or the unscrupulous and/or the megalomaniacs.
Elected Sherriffs and elected prosecutors work really well in america, not. You need a professional on serious specific posts, not elected politicians who have nothing to do with the object just to sit around and abuse it. Or else why not have elected judges, then everyone who promises to vote for him can walk free.
The Chief Constable and other Constables in a police force are neither the servants or agents of the relevant Police and Crime Commissioner, but are Crown servants, responsible to the law alone. The Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 did not change the constitutional principle stated by McCardie J in Fisher v Oldham Corporation.
He cannot bring himself to say that any council or police person should be held accountable for their lamentable failures. Its all lets move on and focus on the future... (Eamonn Holmes conducts a heated interview with Javed Khan, Chief Executive of the Barnardos children's charity, who was enlisted by South Yorkshire Police to help tackle child abuse in Rotherham.)
Go and do some googling of his background and it will tell you all you need to know.
On PCCs, surely the voters will hold them accountable ultimately and throw them out if they refuse to go, that would not have been possible with the old Police Authorities
That argument never works for me. PCCs stand explicitly for one political party, and although many will no doubt work hard for all their communities to the best of their ability, that means they will rise and fall on the fortunes of local and national party politics, quite possibly regardless of whether they do a good job or not. The ones in safe Tory/Labour areas will continue to be elected, removed by not being reselected by their party, and the one's in more contestable areas will, unless fortunate, not be re-elected if their party is dipping in fortunes even if they've done a great job. Some will manage a few percentage points better than their party and perhaps keep their job, but most will not. Ultimately even in a scandal situation, the party position will win out more than anything else.
And since we still have PCPs, all a PCC is is another elected official politicising things.
The situation in Rotherham ought to be the death-knell of the elected police commissioner system,if another was needed.If Channel 4 is to be believed,the legislation put in place by the Home Office only allows consideration of only suspension unless they have committed a criminal offence resulting in an imprisonment of at least 2 years, ie GBH upwards.In other words,he is bombproofed courtesy of Theresa May and can just sit tight. The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation. There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners. Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
The problems are:
1) You need something in that position; 2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
I've always favoured an independent civil enforcement authority,free from either police or local authority control,similar to the HSE but operating in a context of replacing much of what is deemed to be criminal into civil regulation like parking.Regulation and civil enforcement is the most effective model. As for the serious local policing,the boring old collective local authority does the job and much of police work,human trafficking etc etc,is dealt with by the National Crime Agency anyway. Is anyone really going to man the barricaded to save PCCs(apart from those Ms May supporters)?
Comments
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28949612
Fascinating quotation from an outstanding piece on Rotherham in Labour uncut.
It is certainly a line of attack but of course the nearer the Kippers come to being a mainstream party (didn't Nige say how he liked to think that they might be the deciding factor in the GE) then the less effective the attacks against "LabLibCon" will be.
"Dear God another one who can't even flounce off properly."
I think I said I'd crawl under a French stone.
Well I have and I've just crawled out again...................
I agree with you about Tim the one of the finest posters PB has ever had. Odd though that you should know him as I don't remember a "TOPPING" when Tim was around
I strongly suspect sleeping with Olivia Wilde would be in my best interest, but I don't believe that makes it very likely.
http://stroud.greenparty.org.uk/news/geannounce.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
Don't misunderstand me; emotionally I like the idea of an independent Scotland within the EU but it's being handled in such a piecemeal, disorganised fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw
There was (I hope the past tense is correct) a longstanding problem in the Catholic church with physical and sexual abuse of children by priests and others. Worse, allegations were not properly investigated and in many cases priests were just moved on. It had been going on for centuries, not just decades or years.
Often (especially in Ireland), the police were implicated in the cover-up. As such it has much in common with the current scandals. It should be noted that the CofE also had problems, and these were widely reported.
The current pope is making some very promising noises in stamping this out. Good on him. Perhaps you should learn from his wisdom.
'The former Liberal Democrat MSP Margaret Smith, a no voter, tweeted that it was "absolutely appalling. Apart from the ref[erence] to phones that could have been produced for the 79 referendum."
Sandra Grieve, former convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats, told the Guardian that the advert had finally convinced her to vote yes.
"It was the straw that broke the camel's back. I was a very clear no," said Grieve, who was a member of the Scottish Constitutional Convention which developed the framework for devolution, "but I've been increasingly uncomfortable with what I experience as a condescending smugness from Better Together."'
http://tinyurl.com/mu4lmqd
There was an article in the Times today about some of the ludicrous regulations businesses in France have to put up with. The most striking was a rule that driving schools must have customer-accessible premises of at least 25 sq m and that there must be a customer service counter of at least 1 m width.
When I lived in Paris, I always used to be amused by the signs in every bus detailing the official priority order which would apply if there was a dispute about whether the windows should be opened. Not much has changed!
Of course it's not just the baleful effects of the regulations themselves, but the fact that they have to employ armies of bureaucrats to create and police all this nonsense.
A relatively recent recruit to PB, plus lurking a bit before that, I've been here long enough to have interacted with him often enough and now to wish there were others here with his abilities.
But that isn't their main problem. Their problem isn't macro-economic, it's the scelerotic nature of the labour market, the ludicrous over-regulation, the closed shops which apply to many of their professions and trades, the absurdly inflexible employment laws, the punitive taxes on employment, and the power of the unions.
Even if Hollande does tackle some of the macro-economic issues, I can't see him tackling these issues in any serious way. Sarkozy made a few token attempts, but didn't get very far. Hollande isn't even doing that much, in fact he started off by actively making things worse.
The "community leader" system being what guarantees the 100% turnout.
The US federal reserve backed up Barclays to the tune of 500 Billion.
The previous one - http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2014/08/27/this-government-has-tacitly-acknowledged-its-failure-on-anti-extremism-but-labour-should-examine-its-own-conscience/ - is also good and touches on similar issues.
See, for instance, this: "No, we soft-pedalled on extremism because we were afraid of being seen as racist or sectarian; we made base calculations about losing votes; or worse: because we simply didn’t see it for what it was." The author's not shy about naming some of the Labour MPs who, disgracefully, have associated themselves with extremists.
The comments underneath are interesting too.
The reason I was drawn back by something as slight as your inaccurate Israeli posts (copyright Topping) was oddly enough because of the recent death of my aunt.
While rooting through old family photos I found one of her standing next to Saddam Hussain which took me down memory lane........ She was a journalist who wrote articles and books about the Israeli conflict and was one of the first Jewish writers to take up the Palestinian cause. It nearly ruined her career. Prominent Jewish firms threatened to remove their advertising if her articles appeared and too many newspapers reluctantly dropped her
So when I read Richard's little eulogy to your fine posting (which generally I agree with) out of loyalty and not a little anger at the kind of propaganda she obsessively spent her life fighting I thought speaking up was the least I could do
Good to see you are posting again.
It is important that, even where we support a group, we criticise them when they do wrong. I can assure you that I am no uncritical supporter of Israel. Both they and the Palestinians badly need better leaders than the ones they have.
But as someone whose family had to hide during the war to escape the fate meted out to others and who has personal reasons for loathing the Islamists and their appeasers and supporters and excuse-makers in this country I felt it necessary to make some points which I felt others were ignoring.
Anyway we're free to disagree and do so in a civilised manner.
Are we still Frotherhaming then?
Kevin Maguire tweets
For all racists: "As has been stated many times before, there is no simple link between race and child sexual exploitation, and across the UK the greatest numbers of perpetrators of CSE are white men. The second largest category, according to the Children's Commissioner's report, are those from a minority ethnic background, particularly those recorded as 'Asian'." Rotherham report pgs 91-92
Staggering stupidity from Maguire,it's idiots like him branding anyone that comments about Rotherham et al as racists is why there was a massive cover up in the first place.
He forgot to mention the two sets of laws we have for child exploitation in this country.
WTF. Snow is more concerned about the reaction from the Muslims. Thankfully the investigation report that followed was more balanced in its focus. Later in the programme we now have a report into how football is failing to have asian professional players.....
And centuries of child abuse? Citation needed, methinks.
Also, your mention of a foreign country reminds me of the worldwide trawling for dirt the BBC and Guardian indulged in.
Shame they didn't manage to get to Rotherham.
That pretty much deconstructs your entire argument that UKIP should stand down in seats to allow the Tories to get over the top and give a referendum. You're the one being incoherent here.
The one-in-fifty claim he made is, sadly, possibly correct, and mentioning it is a massive step forwards, especially in getting victims and others to come forwards.
Also, he's just removed diplomatic immunity from a Papal envoy:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vatican-strips-child-sex-abuse-4111246
I am not a Catholic, but I'm impressed by Pope Francis.
Maybe he should stand for PCC at the next round of elections. Sounds perfect.
You seem keen to bury Catholic child abuse in a septic tank. Fortunately you cannot.
Knowing where you were coming from-unlike some of the right wing Israeli posters- is why I picked you out. Having said that it's a subject we're best keeping clear of.
MD Thanks for your sympathy but not necessary. Though in her professional capacity she gave me my first significant cover to shoot and I have things to be grateful for in her later years she became very difficult person.
If the police can interview DJs from 30 years ago and nail them on the volume and consistency of evidence, then why are they not pursuing the Rotherham criminals on the same basis ?
New Populus poll gives No 65% of over 50s vote
twitter.com/blairmcdougall/status/504568088625696768/photo/1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bscZyOeBpW4&feature=youtu.be
He cannot bring himself to say that any council or police person should be held accountable for their lamentable failures. Its all lets move on and focus on the future...
(Eamonn Holmes conducts a heated interview with Javed Khan, Chief Executive of the Barnardos children's charity, who was enlisted by South Yorkshire Police to help tackle child abuse in Rotherham.)
Time will tell if the media continue to shine a spotlight (like the Times did originally), if they continue to pressure the authorities to get out there and bring these people to justice.
Crimes committed against over 1400 kids were not committed by just 9 people.
twitter.com/holland_tom/status/504684418213355520/photo/1
And of those 12 I think only 2 are Labour. Those were the days........
It has also been adopted by the right. It was Michael Howard who, fatefully and wrongly IMO, post the Rushdie fatwa, adopted a policy of engaging with Muslims through community leaders.
There is also an insulting assumption in all this that members of that community are somehow not the same as other voters and can't be engaged with on a one-to-one basis and are only to be viewed through one particular prism i.e. the fact that their granny or whoever once lived in Pakistan or their religion and that this is the only important factor about them and the only one with which the authorities here will engage.
Deeply patronising and insulting. And wrong.
It is notable that Labourites only ever get nostalgic for one of the six...
The only get-out I can think of is to pay up his allowances due for the full-term and seek his voluntary resignation.
There needs to be a recognition that he was but one involved in a system which was fundamentally corrupt,a good example of the one-party state going sour.Arrogance and complacency are the obvious signs but there are always "the untouchables" of one sort or another for whom normal rules no longer apply and the establishment has created a new class in police commissioners.
Yvette Cooper is right to put the pressure for May to get a judge-led enquiry on this UK-wide human sewer.
It didn't used to be like that. Until the eighties Labour approach was via class issues much more than race and cultural ones.
1) You need something in that position;
2) These awful occurrences occurred under the old police authorities.
So if you get rid of PCCs, what do you replace them with?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/27/bedfordshire-crime-commissioner-suspended-olly-martins
http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/BREAKING-NEWS-Bedfordshire-Police-Crime/story-22836846-detail/story.html
How many elected PCC have now shamed their office?
Its time to abolish the post of elected PCC before the police is seriously and permanently damaged.
By "they" i mean senior plod who are ambitious to be chief constables one day not plod as a whole.
On PCCs, surely the voters will hold them accountable ultimately and throw them out if they refuse to go, that would not have been possible with the old Police Authorities
Why can't Labour try, just bloody try, to engage with people as individuals? You know: one man - one vote / one woman - one vote. Actually listen to what people have to say not seek to put them in some sort of box and then talk at them as if they were mental deficients who could only understand one thing.
Actually, this could apply to all parties.
The people themselves don't want to have elected PCC's.
And when you generalise you find that there is no "average person" but you can get closer to replicating reality by grouping people into categories.
But I agree the grouping is often done along the wrong lines
You need a professional on serious specific posts, not elected politicians who have nothing to do with the object just to sit around and abuse it.
Or else why not have elected judges, then everyone who promises to vote for him can walk free.
How in any sense is this a benefit to democracy?
"Isn't the problem that there are kind of a lot of us in the country, so on some level you have to generalise?
And when you generalise you find that there is no "average person" but you can get closer to replicating reality by grouping people into categories.
But I agree the grouping is often done along the wrong lines"
Maybe. But politicians might have a better press if they made the effort to understand the variety and range of experiences of people living here and the nuances in their views and their hopes and fears not treat us all as sheep who have to be herded into some sort of category so that we can be patronised and talked down to and "sold" a "narrative" dreamt up by some sort of 20-year old political estate agent.
Maybe they might then become something akin to a mass party rather than groupuscules taken over by committed loons and/or the unscrupulous and/or the megalomaniacs.
"Javed Khan is reported to have arrived in the village of Haveli Bagal last week with about eight men armed with automatic rifles. "
Whatever happened to "fit and proper" assessment?
And since we still have PCPs, all a PCC is is another elected official politicising things.
As for the serious local policing,the boring old collective local authority does the job and much of police work,human trafficking etc etc,is dealt with by the National Crime Agency anyway.
Is anyone really going to man the barricaded to save PCCs(apart from those Ms May supporters)?