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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Will the polling on air strikes against ISIS persuade Dave

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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Ishmael_X said:



    They might be a little bit clever about not being tempted into the open, what with being experienced in desert warfare and having access to the information that a bombing campaign against them is on the cards. And what is going to tempt them?

    Well we know Irbil would have tempted them because it did (although not now it's been very publicly reinforced).

    So *if* there was somewhere (and there might not be) it would tick the same boxes as Irbil.

    There was another obvious place but like i say i have a rellie right there so i won't tempt fate (plus it wasn't swarming with el yanquis a month ago but it might be now so it wouldn't count anyway).



  • Options
    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited August 2014
    Curiously, the governor of Anbar has held discussions with US diplomats about the possibility of US air operations in the province.

    Curious since its completely different Sunni revolutionary groups that dominate in Anbar above ISIS.

    Just a note. If you look at ISIS tracts since the death of Al Zarqawi the internationalist streak of Al Qaeda is much less in evidence within ISIS.
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    Actually, the only other drama Box-set I've bothered watching in recent years was Firefly, the series that Fox cancelled but was eventually turned into the movie Serenity. And I enjoyed both!
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Salmond to 'clarify' his currency position:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28827056

    how do you improve perfection ??

    ;-)
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    JonathanD said:

    Off-topic, but a story that might appeal to some on here:

    The great J.M. Straczysnki is looking to do a Babylon-5 reboot.
    http://www.tvwise.co.uk/2014/08/babylon-5-movie-eyes-2016-production-start/

    There have been so many B5 rumours before that it's difficult to take any new ones seriously.
    In the early hours of this morning I completed the fourth and final season of Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined series) :)
    Great series. One of the few with a truly satisfying ending.

    So many brilliant series have mediocre endings, or worse: Sopranos, Breaking Bad, West Wing.

    The best ending of all was, of course, Spartacus. Total genius. Entirely correct, and moving, and surprising - even though you knew what was going to happen.
    Talking of endings -A game of Thrones - a terrific fantasy series, and not yet finished - is sure to have a soft and spongy ending. The Wheel of Time ending was, to my mind very disappointing, although one can't blame Brandon Sanderson for that, as Jordan died before he could finish the series and his wife Harriet, had a big say..
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    I just watched La Vita e Bella. Such a sad film.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    SeanT said:

    MrJones said:

    surbiton said:


    Sometimes, plan "A" does not quite work out. The reason the Western powers are really scared about IS is not being mentioned. They bombed the hell out of AQitAP [ Yemen ] and you hardly heard anything about it except when the American born leader was killed.

    IS threatens Jordan. That is when the sh*t will hit the fan !

    Again that's the kicker. Isis were for Syria and now they've blown back into Iraq it's going wrong.

    In the gap between the US deciding what to do and probably deciding to bomb the **** out of everything the Iraqis - if they have any sense - should try and figure out their own local way of creating a stable compromise before the mega bombing starts.

    It occurs to me the best way to destroy ISIS is to suck them into a Battle of Stalingrad - i.e. offer them an iconic victory, a place where they will concentrate their manpower - then pulverise them from the air.

    What do ISIS most want?
    The lesson of stalingrad is that pulverising armies from the air doesn't work; the luftwaffe bombed the shit out of the place before the battle really started.

    Completely different war. Pulverising the shit out of ISIS, from the air, would certainly do a lot of good. They have no air power. It is very hard to hide from drones and planes in a desert.

    If we take out their tanks, artillery and missiles with air power, plus a lot of their lovely jihadists in their unmistakeable black uniforms and Toyota pick-ups, we can then let the Kurds and Iraqi army mop up the rest.

    I was making an analogy, not a direct equation.
    Sure. I was also trying to make the general and critically important point that pulverising armies from the air doesn't happen. Stalingrad proves that, but so does every battle in every war since the Wright brothers. If it worked armies would be obsolete, and they aren't: you have to go mano a mano.
    Yes - there is a lot in what you say. However there are real pluses for air power. It tells you where the enemy actually is. It isolates the battlefield and cuts of supplies. And it does do a fair bit of pulverising. It should be borne in mind that 'munitions' can be far more accurately targeted now. Whilst certain types of plane are necessary to obtain air superiority there are other types, simpler types, which can be very effective in loitering for long periods once superiority has been achieved. This does not have to be drones, planes like the Pucara are useful. So dominating primitive armies like ISIS need not be expensive.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014
    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    hucks67 said:

    The problem with airstrikes is the type of battlefied. It may not always be clear what the targets are, unless you have special forces on the ground to assist. There will be civilian casualties and errors made.

    This is nothing like Libya, where I think the enemy targetted were on an open road.

    Best option to deal with ISIS is to try to take out the leadership, wherever they are mainly based.

    True. This does need intelligence and I'd like to think its something we are good at. its not something that makes the headlines but it has to be realistic that we are taking part in this sort of intelligence activity. Not that an Archbishop might realise this.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    Sorry, BBC, don't want to watch the women's rugby world cup. I do not pay money to be shown ridiculous sub-par sport that satirises itself.

    The athletics coverage this week has been very entertaining, although the BBC are getting criticised for showing montages of UK athletes in preference to actual competitions with no UK entrants.

    Team GB finish top of the medal table, ahead of the cheese eating surrender monkeys. Best ever result in European competition.

    At least 3 of the team appeared for Scotland at the Comonwealth games.

    If those medals are split out by my reckoning GB would still be top, and Scotland would be between the Czech Republic and Croatia.

    Of course none of those athletes actually trains in Scotland...
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    So much for toleration.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/17/sainsburys-removes-kosher-food-anti-israel-protesters

    I look forward to the politicians standing up to intimidation...which type of product and company is next? I also notice that The Guardian hasn't allowed comments on that piece.
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    Y0kel said:

    Curiously, the governor of Anbar has held discussions with US diplomats about the possibility of US air operations in the province.

    Curious since its completely different Sunni revolutionary groups that dominate in Anbar above ISIS.

    Just a note. If you look at ISIS tracts since the death of Al Zarqawi the internationalist streak of Al Qaeda is much less in evidence within ISIS.

    AQ playing the BNP to IS's UKIP?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    Worth noting: my "Attack Isis" blog has now attracted 1000 comments and was, at one point, leading the Telegraph Comments web-page (indicating lots of traffic).

    I say this not to boast, I say this because it has political betting implications. We now know that this subject exercises a lot of people. I reckon ISIS/Middle Eastern issues are a primary cause of UKIP's mild resurgence.

    You'd have even more if it wasn't for the Telegraph's paywall.

    They ought to allow the comments to be viewable by everyone IMO.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014

    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).


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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    British battlefield resources operating in and over Iraq. Summary:

    Rivet Joint Electronic intelligence aircraft
    Sentinel Ground surveillance aircraft
    Tornados operating in a recce role (though probably will get roled for strikes soon enough)
    Special Operations teams (largely liaison, advisory and assessment)
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    dr_spyn said:

    So much for toleration.

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/17/sainsburys-removes-kosher-food-anti-israel-protesters

    I look forward to the politicians standing up to intimidation...which type of product and company is next? I also notice that The Guardian hasn't allowed comments on that piece.

    Lets face it comments' mainly encourage bigotry and hysteria. There is little in the way of reason to be found on the interweb.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    SeanT said:

    Worth noting: my "Attack Isis" blog has now attracted 1000 comments and was, at one point, leading the Telegraph Comments web-page (indicating lots of traffic).

    I say this not to boast, I say this because it has political betting implications. We now know that this subject exercises a lot of people. I reckon ISIS/Middle Eastern issues are a primary cause of UKIP's mild resurgence.

    UKIP don't think bad of people for having concerns about multiculturalism.

    The others will pretend they don't but really theyre thinking "hmmm BNP"

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,028
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).



    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.

    So is a body covered in tatoos - I find that disgusting and people covered with tatoos should be locked up away from the public.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    Sorry, BBC, don't want to watch the women's rugby world cup. I do not pay money to be shown ridiculous sub-par sport that satirises itself.

    What is the point? Rugby is a test of strength and virility and aggression and testosterone, it is quintessentially male. Watching women play competitive rugby is like watching men fake competitive pregnancy.

    I do not need this televised.

    What about front of newspapers ;-)

    Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick

    Is this a breakthrough moment? Times, Telegraph and Independent have @englandrugby women on front pages. #WRWC2014 pic.twitter.com/xngenSyWPI


  • Options
    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).


    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.

    So is a body covered in tatoos - I find that disgusting and people covered with tatoos should be locked up away from the public.

    @murali_s
    There is no prohibition in Hinduism against tatoos.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    SeanT said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).


    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.
    So is a body covered in tatoos - I find that disgusting and people covered with tatoos should be locked up away from the public.

    If there was a religion proclaiming the inferiority of people with tattoos even as it enforced the subjugation of people with tattoos, and then actually made tattooed people have more tattoos up the point of grotesque genital mutilation, then I would protest fiercely against this anti-tattooed-people religion, and ask for it to be curtailed in the UK.

    Yet there is no such religion.

    Islam, on the other hand, is all these things. Enough of your bollocks.

    It's not bollocks Sean, it's called a discussion - that's what you're on here for right? :)
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).


    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.
    So is a body covered in tatoos - I find that disgusting and people covered with tatoos should be locked up away from the public.

    @murali_s
    There is no prohibition in Hinduism against tatoos.


    Sunil - I was just making a point. I've got no issues with tatoos...
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    Kevin Pringle ‏@KevinJPringle 1m

    POLLS: Look out on Monday for best YouGov poll for #Yes so far. And more Panelbase: Scots back £-union & No camp's £ stance is boosting Yes.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    murali_s said:

    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).


    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.
    So is a body covered in tatoos - I find that disgusting and people covered with tatoos should be locked up away from the public.
    If there was a religion proclaiming the inferiority of people with tattoos even as it enforced the subjugation of people with tattoos, and then actually made tattooed people have more tattoos up the point of grotesque genital mutilation, then I would protest fiercely against this anti-tattooed-people religion, and ask for it to be curtailed in the UK.

    Yet there is no such religion.

    Islam, on the other hand, is all these things. Enough of your bollocks.

    It's not bollocks Sean, it's called a discussion - that's what you're on here for right? :)

    Well he made the point that skewers your argument; women aren't forced to have tattoos and made to parade around showing them off to ensure that everyone knows they belong to a religion/man, and aren't to be looked at by anyone else
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JohnRentoul: Why you need 2 referendums in 1 tweet via @benrileysmith "Salmond: Plan B must be secret" #indyref http://t.co/WatRwD5bmg
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    TapestryTapestry Posts: 153
    Why won't UK media report that the warring factions are sorting out Iraq, and that Isis is being hammered by the Iraqi army?
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    baby oil is my only opinion on a certain subject
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    Tapestry said:

    Why won't UK media report that the warring factions are sorting out Iraq, and that Isis is being hammered by the Iraqi army?

    Because of the Bilderberg Illuminati Lizards wont let them?
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    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Tapestry said:

    Why won't UK media report that the warring factions are sorting out Iraq, and that Isis is being hammered by the Iraqi army?

    Give us some links to your information.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    My biggest laugh of the evening concerns Journo ignorance:

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/huffpo-reporter-mistakes-earplugs-rubber-bullets

    Such fun, but sadly true, that most modern reporters (not all) are under educated and lacking in common sense.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    @SeanT

    Sean, you are sounding as judgemental on Islam as the Movements you are making a judgement on. It's too easy to paint everything in Dulux black; where in reality there are many shades of grey :) (PS I'm no fan of ISIS but does that give us a right to tarnish the whole of Islam?)

    I challenge you to find out ten pro female things in the Koran so you may find out that there are some things that you (yes even you) may agree with. It is the misinterpretations of a few that I too do not agree with that leads to bad press. The good in Islam is why many start to follow it or continue in the path they are born into. You have to see a balanced/objective view point to tackle a problem this big and entrenched. It's like TV, Internet etc - they are all instruments that can be used in a good or bad way. Just because a minority few choose to use interpret Islam in a destructive manner to their own agenda, it doesn't mean there is no merit to it (ie the whites and the greys) at all. If only life was that straight forward. It's full of greys!! :)
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    MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Tapestry said:

    Why won't UK media report that the warring factions are sorting out Iraq, and that Isis is being hammered by the Iraqi army?

    They get their info from the US/UK govt briefings who get their info from bloggers who get their info from trawling social media so the MSN are always about a week behind.

    (Speaking of which Ukraine might be coming to a head - based purely on trawling social media so cup of salt required.)

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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    edited August 2014
    India lost two tests within three days batting less than 100 overs in each

    How can they be soooo bad?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,698
    edited August 2014
    Poll Alert Sleazy Broken Unionists on the slide

    YouGov for the Times (changes since August 4)

    Yes 38 % (+3)

    No 51% (-4)

    DK 11% (+1)

    Excluding DK's Yes 43% (+3) No 57% (-3)

    Highest Yes ever score with YouGov

    YouGov polled 1,085 Scottish adults from August 12-15
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    @isam

    What about the term 'trophy wife' ?

    In either case, men either want to protect or show-off their 'asset'. Anyway, in both cases women have a choice.

    It is clearly evident that underlying prejudices and preconceptions are coming into play here and people are viewing things with a very narrow lens.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    murali_s said:

    @isam

    What about the term 'trophy wife' ?

    In either case, men either want to protect or show-off their 'asset'. Anyway, in both cases women have a choice.

    It is clearly evident that underlying prejudices and preconceptions are coming into play here and people are viewing things with a very narrow lens.

    That is such a shit analogy it's not worth carrying on the debate
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    Poll Alert Sleazy Broken Unionists on the slide

    YouGov for the Times (changes since August 4)

    Yes 35 % (+3)

    No 51% (-4)

    DK 11% (+1)

    Excluding DK's Yes 43% (+3) No 57% (+3)

    Highest Yes ever score with YouGov

    YouGov polled 1,085 Scottish adults from August 12-15

    The various figures given are incoherent. I'd guess without DNs it 's 59:41.

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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    edited August 2014
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    murali_s said:

    @isam

    What about the term 'trophy wife' ?

    In either case, men either want to protect or show-off their 'asset'. Anyway, in both cases women have a choice.

    It is clearly evident that underlying prejudices and preconceptions are coming into play here and people are viewing things with a very narrow lens.

    That is such a shit analogy it's not worth carrying on the debate
    Quite so.

    Debate? I thought this was a discussion. There lies the real problem and why no proper discussion can be had. Shame. Good night gentlemen.
  • Options

    Poll Alert Sleazy Broken Unionists on the slide

    YouGov for the Times (changes since August 4)

    Yes 35 % (+3)

    No 51% (-4)

    DK 11% (+1)

    Excluding DK's Yes 43% (+3) No 57% (+3)

    Highest Yes ever score with YouGov

    YouGov polled 1,085 Scottish adults from August 12-15

    The various figures given are incoherent. I'd guess without DNs it 's 59:41.

    There was a couple of typos in my figures, have corrected them now
  • Options

    Poll Alert Sleazy Broken Unionists on the slide

    YouGov for the Times (changes since August 4)

    Yes 35 % (+3)

    No 51% (-4)

    DK 11% (+1)

    Excluding DK's Yes 43% (+3) No 57% (+3)

    Highest Yes ever score with YouGov

    YouGov polled 1,085 Scottish adults from August 12-15

    The various figures given are incoherent. I'd guess without DNs it 's 59:41.

    There was a couple of typos in my figures, have corrected them now
    Thanks. Still 60:40 give or take.

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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2014
    #GE2015 selections:

    Con, Bolton North East: James Daly.
    twitter.com/CllrIanBevan/status/501064526121684994

    Con, Darlington: Peter Cuthbertson.
    twitter.com/CllrCarlThomson/status/501104725597880320
    www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/11415111.Conservatives_announce_Parliamentary_candidate_for_Darlington/?ref=rss

    Con, Hayes & Harlington: Pearl Lewis.
    twitter.com/CharlesWRHeslop/status/501035888303177730

    LD, Devon West & Torridge: Mike Sparling.
    twitter.com/michaelsparling


    Pearl Lewis and Mike Sparling sound like a couple of anchors from a low-brow American TV news network. No offence to the real Pearl Lewis and Mike Sparling.
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    New Thread
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    surbiton said:

    Y0Kel has an armchair in standard orbit above Mosul so we can take his word for it :)

    (only kidding!!)

    He has very good sources in a Middle East country hugging the Mediterranean coast.
    Dear god....
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    SeanT said:

    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    MikeK said:

    A picture to ponder before I say goodnight.

    Slaves. Little girls in shackles headed to be married off to old men. This is Islam. This is evil. pic.twitter.com/OkAngxx4G4

    — Mary Mauldin (@marymauldin) August 17, 2014
    This is not 'islam' any more than 25 Cromwell Street is Britain, or 10 Rillington Place is Christianity (or we'd like to think British justice).



    But it is Islam, isn't it?

    I regularly see women walking around Regent's Park wearing the full burqa. Which, let us recall, is a total body covering except for the eyes, which have a kind of "grille".

    http://outlawpoetry.com/files/2010/07/burqa-women.jpg


    It is disgusting and it should be banned. The French are right.

    Maybe it should. Some people do indeed inhabit what I would regard as a perverse version of this religion but then again I would suggest so do mormons. Mormons do not reflect the general outlook of Christians. One sect of one religion does not equate to the entire group or ethnic grouping. Many Moslem women in Turkey do wear the burka and would vehmently resist being forced to do so.

    I would like to think - since you are an educated man - that you recognise that someone trying to tar a whole ethnic group by the practices of a minority, someone pouring onto a whole group the prejudices generatred by a small sect, is a racist.
    Of course the lunatics and bigots in ISIS will revel in the sight if we ourselves regress into the same bigotry as they exhibit. Extremes feed off each other. These swines are indeed vile and subhuman - we can see that from what they do - the question you and we all have to ask is are we civilised or not. These evil people should be defeated but we should retain our sanity in the process.
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