"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Indeed, one of my Great Grandfathers was a member of the British Indian Army, I have some of his medals.
He was very proud of his service.
Gosh, would you be prepared to share any details, stories, photos etc that you have of your great Grandfather? The role of the Indian Army in WWI is something of a hobby, though obsession might be nearer the mark, of mine.
I'll dig some stuff out, he died before I was born, but he told my father a lot, he was very proud of the uniform.
I do know he was at the Second Battle of El Alamein but records are very sketchy.
One thing I did discover during my teens, successive Indian and Pakistani governments went out their way to airbrush/ignore the British Indian Army's role in the Wars, and the soldiers invovled.
"... [Vince Cable] introduced the fees for Uni students."
Bit of a re-write of history there, Mr. Eagles. Were not Uni tuition fees introducced by the last Labour Government, notably because of the votes of Scottish MPs (whose constituents were not affected)? Cable was merely responsible for increasing them.
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any higher and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
"... [Vince Cable] introduced the fees for Uni students."
Bit of a re-write of history there, Mr. Eagles. Were not Uni tuition fees introducced by the last Labour Government, notably because of the votes of Scottish MPs (whose constituents were not affected)? Cable was merely responsible for increasing them.
Yeah, I'm a bit tired (but not emotional) this evening, so my memory isn't functioning at 100%
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
George Macdonald Fraser was brilliant. And, a huge admirer of the Indian soldiers.
This Hammond betting is utter madness - I'd want 100/1 minimum.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Tim Montgomerie wrote the other day that the next Tory leader will be an outer.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any lower and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
Posties have got bugger all as yet apart from a piddling dividend.
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any lower and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
Posties have got bugger all as yet apart from a piddling dividend.
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
You didn't agree with Comrade Vince on that on then?
This Hammond betting is utter madness - I'd want 100/1 minimum.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Tim Montgomerie wrote the other day that the next Tory leader will be an outer.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Sorry you mean the Tim Montgomerie who thought IDS was the man to win back power ?
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
Gurkha's pay and pensions were traditionally lower because they had to be kept in step with those of the post independence Indian Army, as per a 1947 agreement (the Indian Army also employed, and may still do for all I know, Gurkha Regiments and they didn't want us nicking all the best recruits). That anomaly was abolished years ago.
The competition to get into the Brigade of Gurhkas has always been very fierce. Whether that is because of an attempt to seek out a well paid job or the pride in serving, I don't pretend to know. I'll tell you this though, having served along side the little buggers, their toughness and professionalism is something you will never, ever get just from a bloke just wanting to get a relatively well paid job.
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any lower and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
Posties have got bugger all as yet apart from a piddling dividend.
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
You didn't agree with Comrade Vince on that on then?
Osborne might have handed him a suicide pass on it, but he should've shoved it right back where the sun don't shine. Gidders might even have enjoyed that.
This Hammond betting is utter madness - I'd want 100/1 minimum.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Tim Montgomerie wrote the other day that the next Tory leader will be an outer.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Sorry you mean the Tim Montgomerie who thought IDS was the man to win back power ?
If he's seen as the alternative to Cameron, why should voters risk voting Labour if they want some change when they get it all with the Tories? If played well could be like 2005 again. The at the time no risk change vote was Labour as everyone knew Brown would take over relatively soon. Makes it much harder for Labour to get their choice agenda across.
This Hammond betting is utter madness - I'd want 100/1 minimum.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Tim Montgomerie wrote the other day that the next Tory leader will be an outer.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Sorry you mean the Tim Montgomerie who thought IDS was the man to win back power ?
This Hammond betting is utter madness - I'd want 100/1 minimum.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Tim Montgomerie wrote the other day that the next Tory leader will be an outer.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Sorry you mean the Tim Montgomerie who thought IDS was the man to win back power ?
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any lower and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
Posties have got bugger all as yet apart from a piddling dividend.
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
That's nonsense! If a postman had sold his free shares when the price peaked, he stood to make a tax free profit of more than £4,100 and potentially a great deal more had he chosen to apply for an additional preferred allocation of shares.
Telegraph say Boris is in line to be the Business Secretary
Certainly an upgrade from the current one
Who he? Ed.
Seriously, though, what has Vince done?
No Lib Dem claim to the economic recovery from that end.
Flogged the Royal Mail, introduced the fees for Uni students.
At least Cable got the Royal Mail flotation price about right - currently 403p and falling sharply, compared with the offer price of 330p. Imagine if the price had been set any lower and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
Posties have got bugger all as yet apart from a piddling dividend.
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
That's nonsense! If a postman had sold his free shares when the price peaked, he stood to make a tax free profit of more than £4,100 and potentially a great deal more had he chosen to apply for an additional preferred allocation of shares.
I thought the posties had to hold their shares for 3 years, before they could cash in.
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
The number that switched sides was pathetically small (maybe 2%) what the those that stayed loyal thought of those that didn't you can read for your self in Fraser.
I see the crossover fairies are still hunting around for their magic dust. Basil is currently having spinal traction due to the constant carrying of the goalposts, despite the fact the PB Hodges have been up and down the crossover hill more times than Cameron was beasted at Bullingdon.
I see the crossover fairies are still hunting around for their magic dust. Basil is currently having spinal traction due to the constant carrying of the goalposts, despite the fact the PB Hodges have been up and down the crossover hill more times than Cameron was beasted at Bullingdon.
Crossover has happened with the Gold Standard of British Polling.
And is in situ, Basil can relax.
And lest we forget, you said crossover wouldn't happen before the election.
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
The number that switched sides was pathetically small (maybe 2%) what the those that stayed loyal thought of those that didn't you can read for your self in Fraser.
Quartered Safe Out Here is an excellent book. Bose is still a controversial fellow for his role as a quisling/national hero.
I see the crossover fairies are still hunting around for their magic dust. Basil is currently having spinal traction due to the constant carrying of the goalposts, despite the fact the PB Hodges have been up and down the crossover hill more times than Cameron was beasted at Bullingdon.
9 11 11 9 9 8 7 6 5 6 7 6 6 6 4 4 3 4 3
A lobotomised ferret could probably discern a hint of a trend in those numbers.
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
The number that switched sides was pathetically small (maybe 2%) what the those that stayed loyal thought of those that didn't you can read for your self in Fraser.
Quartered Safe Out Here is an excellent book. Bose is still a controversial fellow for his role as a quisling/national hero.
I don't think Bose was very controversial amongst the soldiers of the Indian Army.
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
The number that switched sides was pathetically small (maybe 2%) what the those that stayed loyal thought of those that didn't you can read for your self in Fraser.
Quartered Safe Out Here is an excellent book. Bose is still a controversial fellow for his role as a quisling/national hero.
I don't think Bose was very controversial amongst the soldiers of the Indian Army.
Just tested my smug meter about last night and it is still reading pretty high. Debates are always results against expectations and the post mortem has therefore been much worse for Salmond than the actual debate deserved.
Given that the Tories are very magnanimously doing their bit by delaying crossover with Yougov until late September I am getting increasingly optimistic.
If you don't believe the story, simply enlarge the image that accompanies it.
That confirms the early report from eyewitnesses that the BBC deleted (banana republic anyone?) thankfully saved and viewable, and confirms Russian insistence that their radar shows another aircraft pursuing MH17.
It proves beyond doubt that the sanctions against Russia are totally unjustified, as was the demonisation of Putin and Russia, and the utterly reprehensible warmongering by our senior politicians and press.
OT It looks like ISIS are now making moves against the Kurds in Northern Iraq. I have a couple of friends working in Irbil at the moment and they have been told to pack up ready to pull out as ISIS are only 40 Km away. I just wonder if the Kurds will be able to stand up to ISIS any better than the Iraqi Government.
@Luckyguy1983 An air to air missile contains a relatively small explosive charge and normally detonates on contact, modern longer range surface to air missiles have larger charges, and are programmed to burst in front of the aircraft they are aimed at. I am unable to distinguish from "shrapnel", and "cannon fire" holes from the image, which leads me to assume that waiting for proper analysis might be the best option.
If, God forbid the alleged 40,000 Yazidis are slaughtered or starved to death on Mount Sinjan - will the UN engage in another writing another document full of empty promises ?
"Black, Indian, Chinese, gay, mixed race – all fought for a country at a time when it treated them as second-class citizens"
Minorities have always fought in the British armed forces and have not generally speaking been treated as second class in any of them.
The contribution of Indian Troops on the Western front in WWI is, however, a remarkable story and far less well-known than it should be, even here in darkest Sussex where we have two magnificent memorials to their contribution.
As a fine point of interest the idea that the Afghans have always been an implacable enemy of the UK is shown to be complete tosh once you start digging. I have in my collection a photo of a pathan, what we would now call pashtun, soldier being presented with the Victoria Cross by the King in the grounds of Brighton Pavilion. The contribution made by pathan soldiers as far back as 1857 and as late as 1945 was exemplary.
P.S. In order to cater for caste and religious needs of the soldiers the hospital set up in the Brighton Pavilion had seven separate kitchens. Treated as second class, I think not.
I love Max Hastings' account of the last great campaign of the Imperial Indian Army in 1945 in Burma.
I find it unlikely that Black and Asian soldiers would have volunteered to fight for people who they regarded as oppressors.
Correct Mr. F and they were all volunteers. In fact the biggest volunteer army in history was the Indian Army of WW2.
P.S. If you are interested in that campaign and you haven't read it yet then I thoroughly recommend George MacDonald's Fraser's memoir, "Quartered Safe Out Here". It is one of the finest things ever written about modern warfare from a very junior infantryman's view and it is very good on the British Army, probably as accurate today as it was then.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
The profession of arms has always been well-paid in India. One of the keys to British success was to ensure their men were paid on time.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
Though a fair number switched sides (though apparently gurkhas remained entirely loyal)
2 million Indians volunteered to serve the Allied cause, only c. 40,000 joined the INA, and virtually all were former POWs captured by the Japanese in SE Asia.
You are quitely forgetting that for most if not all, it was a "well paid" job if you came from the villages of India. As it is today, if you came from the villages of Nepal.
Does a Gurkha today get the same pay as a soldier from the UK in the Army ?
Gurkha's pay and pensions were traditionally lower because they had to be kept in step with those of the post independence Indian Army, as per a 1947 agreement (the Indian Army also employed, and may still do for all I know, Gurkha Regiments and they didn't want us nicking all the best recruits). That anomaly was abolished years ago.
Most of the current Gurkha regiments are with the Indian Army.
OT It looks like ISIS are now making moves against the Kurds in Northern Iraq. I have a couple of friends working in Irbil at the moment and they have been told to pack up ready to pull out as ISIS are only 40 Km away. I just wonder if the Kurds will be able to stand up to ISIS any better than the Iraqi Government.
I do hope so, ISIS seem to be the worst of the lot in the Middle East.
Comments
I do know he was at the Second Battle of El Alamein but records are very sketchy.
One thing I did discover during my teens, successive Indian and Pakistani governments went out their way to airbrush/ignore the British Indian Army's role in the Wars, and the soldiers invovled.
As a saver, I'm going for the 10/1 on him being the Kensington candidate.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/which-constituency-will-boris-johnson-stand-in
"... [Vince Cable] introduced the fees for Uni students."
Bit of a re-write of history there, Mr. Eagles. Were not Uni tuition fees introducced by the last Labour Government, notably because of the votes of Scottish MPs (whose constituents were not affected)? Cable was merely responsible for increasing them.
For ISam that means I put on a pound in the hope of receiving 101 back.
Imagine if the price had been set any higher and those posties hadn't made their £5k apiece. I mean they would have been forced to ..... er..... go on strike.
There's only two Tory cabinet ministers whom are outers, Phil H and Michael Gove.
I know the Tory party is crazy, 'cause we elected IDS, but we're not that crazy to elect Gove as leader, so by the process of elimination, has to be Hammond.
Lab 341
Con 268
Lib 16
Ed Miliband Prime Minister, Majority 32
Crossover, swingback always happens etc etc, tick tock
The Royal Mail flog off was unnecessary, unpopular, and a complete failure.
Over and above pay, it's clear that Indian soldiers took great pride in their service.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/politics/collins-to-fight-rotherham-seat-for-ukip-1-6769995
I actually did a double-take.
The competition to get into the Brigade of Gurhkas has always been very fierce. Whether that is because of an attempt to seek out a well paid job or the pride in serving, I don't pretend to know. I'll tell you this though, having served along side the little buggers, their toughness and professionalism is something you will never, ever get just from a bloke just wanting to get a relatively well paid job.
Drinks them, and orders another six shots, and drinks them.
The barman asks the bloke "So what's the occasion?"
The bloke replies: "I've just had my first BJ"
The barman says "Well you can have the next shot on the house"
The bloke replies "Nah it's ok, if 12 shots can't rid of the taste, one more won't make any difference"
Neither of them could keep the snake inside the pet store.
If he's seen as the alternative to Cameron, why should voters risk voting Labour if they want some change when they get it all with the Tories?
If played well could be like 2005 again. The at the time no risk change vote was Labour as everyone knew Brown would take over relatively soon. Makes it much harder for Labour to get their choice agenda across.
EXCL: Baroness Warsi rules out penning 'kiss and tell' diary about Cabinet rows: http://bit.ly/1odUg3U
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_National_Army
And is in situ, Basil can relax.
And lest we forget, you said crossover wouldn't happen before the election.
William Hill @sharpeangle 1m
Boris 1/2 to run for Parliament in Uxbridge/S Ruislip constituency, where Tories 1/50 to win - 6/4 to stand elsewhere. #Boris
6/4 Wh no???
Oh for the accounts
A lobotomised ferret could probably discern a hint of a trend in those numbers.
Can Basil?
£15 @ Hills Elsewhere (6-4)
Hopefully he'll stand errm... somewhere !
Given that the Tories are very magnanimously doing their bit by delaying crossover with Yougov until late September I am getting increasingly optimistic.
http://nsnbc.me/2014/08/06/mh17-osce-monitors-identify-shrapnel-machine-gun-like-holes/
If you don't believe the story, simply enlarge the image that accompanies it.
That confirms the early report from eyewitnesses that the BBC deleted (banana republic anyone?) thankfully saved and viewable, and confirms Russian insistence that their radar shows another aircraft pursuing MH17.
It proves beyond doubt that the sanctions against Russia are totally unjustified, as was the demonisation of Putin and Russia, and the utterly reprehensible warmongering by our senior politicians and press.
An air to air missile contains a relatively small explosive charge and normally detonates on contact, modern longer range surface to air missiles have larger charges, and are programmed to burst in front of the aircraft they are aimed at.
I am unable to distinguish from "shrapnel", and "cannon fire" holes from the image, which leads me to assume that waiting for proper analysis might be the best option.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/prevent/UNdocs/KofiAnnansActionPlantoPreventGenocide7Apr2004.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11017773/Village-pub-raided-by-police-in-hunt-for-Holy-Grail.html