Off topic, but does anyone know if it would be common for a soldier to be given another regimental number if for example, he had been wounded and in hospital when his original battalion left for a different theatre of war (WW1)? Edit :- i.e. a temporary transfer
I think that is very unlikely. When my father joined the Black Watch in the 50s he was given his army number which stayed with him throughout his career. He switched to the Pay Corps and through them was attached to various units in various countries over 20 years. His army number never changed.
Yes and I agreed, however it was Darling that had all the numbers and approved the deal and him that bankrupted the UK. Bit like saying I punched someone and you punched 30 people so we are the same.
It was Gordon Brown (not Darling) who, in 1997, moved responsibility for bank supervision away from the Bank of England to the FSA. The FSA's poor regulation of RBS in 2007 was largely responsible for the failure of RBS by its own admission as reported by Citywire as follows:
"The FSA’s report into RBS, which only saw the light of day after pressure from the Treasury Select Committee after the regulator put out a statement last year merely saying there would be no enforcement against the bank or any individuals, concluded the failure of RBS was a combination of the six following reasons:
•Significant weaknesses in RBS’s capital position, as a result of management decisions and permitted by an inadequate global regulatory capital framework •Over-reliance on risky short-term wholesale funding, which was permitted by an inadequate approach to the regulation of liquidity •Concerns and uncertainties about RBS’s underlying asset quality, which in turn was subject to little fundamental analysis by the FSA •Substantial losses in credit trading activities, which eroded market confidence. Both RBS’s strategy and the FSA’s supervisory approach underestimated how bad losses associated with structured credit might be •The ABN AMRO acquisition, on which RBS proceeded without appropriate heed to the risks involved and with inadequate due diligence •·An overall systemic crisis in which the banks in worse relative positions were extremely vulnerable to failure. RBS was one such bank. "
Why are we bothering to have a thread on this? Listen to Malclog, Salmond has already won. No matter what gets said next week in the actual debate, any criticism of him from whatever source will be instantly and wittily rebutted in one of Malc's classic, root vegetable themed tirades. You can't argue with that. I don't think they should bother with the debates, or even the vote for that matter. The truth is that anyone who doesn't see that Salmond and Yes are already the rightful winners is a unionist lickspittle turnip, and only deserves abuse. When will you idiots get this through your thick turnip skulls?
Off topic, but does anyone know if it would be common for a soldier to be given another regimental number if for example, he had been wounded and in hospital when his original battalion left for a different theatre of war (WW1)? Edit :- i.e. a temporary transfer
Depends what you are talking about. It seems you researching an ancestor, with the WWI reference?
Numbers were issued by regiment until 1920, after which they became service-wide. Before that transferring regiments got you a new number. Also, because it was regiment-specific, two soldiers in different regiments could have the same number.
There have been several major changes since (most recently JPA in 2007) but 1920 was the big shake-up.
It's a sign of the times that a debate that could decide the future of the United Kingdom as we know it, isn't being screened across the ITV network.
There does seem to be a tremendous antipathy about what's going on in Scotland within the London-centric media...
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
Off topic, but does anyone know if it would be common for a soldier to be given another regimental number if for example, he had been wounded and in hospital when his original battalion left for a different theatre of war (WW1)? Edit :- i.e. a temporary transfer
My Grandfather was called up into the Manchester Regiment and sent to the Somme in 1916, but was later in the South Lancs regiment in Mesopotamia where he finished the war, and he was discharged from there. I am not sure how the transfer took place, but it took me a while to match family stories to units and battles as a result. I think he kept the same number.
He quite liked the Turks and thought them brave and honourable opponents. As he was an Infantry private in the second battle of Kut, he spoke with experience! How times have moved on. Now we have the same brutal battles, but far less honour.
I can watch all the various ITV regions through my Sky box and often do when they have a more interesting Champions League game on. Presumably anybody with Sky can get STV?
I do agree that this is ridiculous, especially with all the digital channels they have at their disposal these days.
@DavidL My grandfather had two regimental numbers, for which there have been several explanations, but none made any real sense. The problem I have at the moment is that what little there is in the way of information (service records destroyed in the 1940 bombing, and incomplete medical records due to lack of space in the 30's) mean that either his story does not fit the timeline, or possibly he was in hospital when the first battalion left France for Mesopotamia in Jan 1915.
I can watch all the various ITV regions through my Sky box and often do when they have a more interesting Champions League game on. Presumably anybody with Sky can get STV?
I've never realised you can do that, LOL!
Mind you, up until now, watching different regional telly isn't something I've given a great deal of thought about...
DavidEvershed To be fair most of Canada did not have a vote in Quebec's referendums on independence. Polls show most English and Welsh do not now want Scotland to split.
I doubt most of rUK will be that happy about missing Corrie and Emmerdale to watch a Scottish referendum debate on which they have no vote, though hopefully we political junkies can find channels to watch it on, whether on the internet, BBC/Sky News and BBC Parliament etc
It's a sign of the times that a debate that could decide the future of the United Kingdom as we know it, isn't being screened across the ITV network.
There does seem to be a tremendous antipathy about what's going on in Scotland within the London-centric media...
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
The rest of the UK may not have a vote, but what Scotland does could have vast ramification's on the rest of the UK for years and decades to come.
Within a couple of year we might well find ourselves in a currency union with a separate nation and all the ramifications that could have on the taxpayer of what's left of the UK.
@foxinsoxuk If my grandfather did leave France with his original regiment and battalion, they were in the same battles (1st HLI ). The story however is that he had been "gassed" three times, and that would fit with him being on the wounded rolls three times in the "HLI chronicle", except that the dates are wrong, as I am not sure that gas featured heavily in Iraq or Egypt?
@malcolmg You are correct, none of us know the future, but one thing we do know is that neither the hyperbole, or the doom mongering we hear are likely to be correct. Tone it down a few notches, and it might be possible to shift some votes, otherwise all that happens is a hardening of peoples natural bias. Westminster, and indeed all governments could do with learning this simple fact (and PB as well).
Unclear why the Betfair and Betdaq prices are so out of line with the bookie prices at the moment. They have been very similar up until about a week ago. (Presumably because of increasingly good liquidity.) Eg. current Coral prices:
MG Can you point out where I said it was ok to lob shells into civilians properties.. anywhere.. you wont be able to..because I never posted that....maybe you should take some time away from your rants and actually read the posts. You seem to be comfortable with Hamas sending 3000 rockets into Israel to do just that.
Richard, I think you will find I have not supported either side. I do unlike you though believe that indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas for any reason is totally wrong.
MalcolmG The point is there is no capital for Salmond on the Crash ThanksGIN1138 Have signed up ready for Tuesday
I think the fact that Salmond leading a government that has ran Scotland well in comparison to Darling who bankrupted the UK could maybe just be seen as a positive.
MalcolmG The point is there is no capital for Salmond on the Crash ThanksGIN1138 Have signed up ready for Tuesday
I think the fact that Salmond leading a government that has ran Scotland well in comparison to Darling who bankrupted the UK could maybe just be seen as a positive.
Folk furth of Scotland do not necessarily understand the concept of competent governance. Eg. the rUK has been run by incompetent governments for so long that large sections of the populace seem to believe that that is normal. It need not be so.
It's a sign of the times that a debate that could decide the future of the United Kingdom as we know it, isn't being screened across the ITV network.
There does seem to be a tremendous antipathy about what's going on in Scotland within the London-centric media...
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
Within a couple of year we might well find ourselves in a currency union with a separate nation and all the ramifications that could have on the taxpayer of what's left of the UK.
Very remote possibility - unless the governing party that agreed to it had a death wish and wanted to lose the next GE.....
Why are we bothering to have a thread on this? Listen to Malclog, Salmond has already won. No matter what gets said next week in the actual debate, any criticism of him from whatever source will be instantly and wittily rebutted in one of Malc's classic, root vegetable themed tirades. You can't argue with that. I don't think they should bother with the debates, or even the vote for that matter. The truth is that anyone who doesn't see that Salmond and Yes are already the rightful winners is a unionist lickspittle turnip, and only deserves abuse. When will you idiots get this through your thick turnip skulls?
Good post from you JJ, I wish it was as clear cut as you say. Definitely post of the day , witty and erudite.
Off topic, but does anyone know if it would be common for a soldier to be given another regimental number if for example, he had been wounded and in hospital when his original battalion left for a different theatre of war (WW1)? Edit :- i.e. a temporary transfer
My Grandfather was called up into the Manchester Regiment and sent to the Somme in 1916, but was later in the South Lancs regiment in Mesopotamia where he finished the war, and he was discharged from there. I am not sure how the transfer took place, but it took me a while to match family stories to units and battles as a result. I think he kept the same number.
He quite liked the Turks and thought them brave and honourable opponents. As he was an Infantry private in the second battle of Kut, he spoke with experience! How times have moved on. Now we have the same brutal battles, but far less honour.
My Grandfather was shipped out of France in the winter of 16/17 to Mesopotamia, which was quite a fierce campaign in 1917, particularly the retaking of Kut, the loss of which had been a major British defeat. There was plenty of close quarters fighting but my family stories do not mention gas. The campaign petered out by 1918 after the capture of Baghdad, and he escaped the 1918 climactic battles.
His main war time grievance was that the married men got home leave, while he and the other batchelors had to pack the ship in France. He thought this quite unreasonable!
It's a sign of the times that a debate that could decide the future of the United Kingdom as we know it, isn't being screened across the ITV network.
There does seem to be a tremendous antipathy about what's going on in Scotland within the London-centric media...
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
Within a couple of year we might well find ourselves in a currency union with a separate nation and all the ramifications that could have on the taxpayer of what's left of the UK.
Very remote possibility - unless the governing party that agreed to it had a death wish and wanted to lose the next GE.....
Private Fraser appears, "Doomed we are all doomed"
malcolmg depends entirely on your perspective, in any case we will see what the debate brings on Tuesday
Yes will be interesting but make little difference. Blinky will just parrot what he always says , no currency blah blah , pooling and sharing etc. It can all be boiled down to Positive or Negative. I am a positive person.
Off topic, but does anyone know if it would be common for a soldier to be given another regimental number if for example, he had been wounded and in hospital when his original battalion left for a different theatre of war (WW1)? Edit :- i.e. a temporary transfer
My Grandfather was called up into the Manchester Regiment and sent to the Somme in 1916, but was later in the South Lancs regiment in Mesopotamia where he finished the war, and he was discharged from there. I am not sure how the transfer took place, but it took me a while to match family stories to units and battles as a result. I think he kept the same number.
He quite liked the Turks and thought them brave and honourable opponents. As he was an Infantry private in the second battle of Kut, he spoke with experience! How times have moved on. Now we have the same brutal battles, but far less honour.
My Grandfather was shipped out of France in the winter of 16/17 to Mesopotamia, which was quite a fierce campaign in 1917, particularly the retaking of Kut, the loss of which had been a major British defeat. There was plenty of close quarters fighting but my family stories do not mention gas. The campaign petered out by 1918 after the capture of Baghdad, and he escaped the 1918 climactic battles.
His main war time grievance was that the married men got home leave, while he and the other batchelors had to pack the ship in France. He thought this quite unreasonable!
@foxinsoxuk The lack of detail is always going to be annoying, but it would be a fairly safe bet to assume that your grandfather will have fought alongside my grandfather's original battalion in Iraq. Censorship at the time means that details are sketchy though, and the 1st HLI war diaries have not been digitized yet, and at over £3 a pop for each document from the National Archives, I would like to pin his movements down a little more precisely before ordering the more likely ones. He was in the same position though, also being unmarried at the time.
@foxinsoxuk If my grandfather did leave France with his original regiment and battalion, they were in the same battles (1st HLI ). The story however is that he had been "gassed" three times, and that would fit with him being on the wounded rolls three times in the "HLI chronicle", except that the dates are wrong, as I am not sure that gas featured heavily in Iraq or Egypt?
I have never heard of gas being used by the Turks in the Mesopotamian campaign, so if your grandfather was gassed three times he was jolly unlucky as it wan't used that often during 1915 and 1st HLI was withdrawn from France in the December of that year. Clearly there is an interesting tale to be discovered and the place to look is probably the battalion's war diary.
Such diaries seldom mention the names of other ranks who were casualties but they will normally mention matters like being subject to gas attack. They are available for view at the National Archives in Kew. I think you may be a long distance away but I am in and out of the NA regularly would you like me to do some research the next time I am there?
It's a sign of the times that a debate that could decide the future of the United Kingdom as we know it, isn't being screened across the ITV network.
There does seem to be a tremendous antipathy about what's going on in Scotland within the London-centric media...
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
Within a couple of year we might well find ourselves in a currency union with a separate nation and all the ramifications that could have on the taxpayer of what's left of the UK.
Very remote possibility - unless the governing party that agreed to it had a death wish and wanted to lose the next GE.....
Private Fraser appears, "Doomed we are all doomed"
Says our very own Captain Mainwaring - blithely ignorant of the facts, pompously revelling in his own self importance and ignorance......
@foxinsoxuk The lack of detail is always going to be annoying, but it would be a fairly safe bet to assume that your grandfather will have fought alongside my grandfather's original battalion in Iraq. Censorship at the time means that details are sketchy though, and the 1st HLI war diaries have no been digitized yet, and at over £3 a pop for each document from the National Archives, I would like to pin his movements down a little more precisely before ordering the more likely ones. He was in the same position though, also being unmarried at the time.
I have some contemporaneous newspaper cuttings that he sent my Grandmother (to be) from Mesopotamia, of the second battle of Kut.
There are several Commonwealth War graves sites there, with members of his unit in them, that are well kept (or were a few years back). My brother visited the site when posted to Iraq.
Btw, rubbishy as Iain Gray was, I think it might behoove 'Britain's most read political blog' to spell his name correctly in a blog about Scottish politics.
@HurstLlama Thanks for the offer, but I will have to do more research before asking you to pour over the "dry" documents on what might be a wild goose chase. Hopefully, the digitization of the regimental war diaries will mean I can view them at the Mitchel Library in Glasgow. Again, thanks for the offer. it is appreciated.
@HurstLlama From what I have read, it seems likely that the first time he was gassed, it was by his own side!
Crumbs, the earliest that would have been at the Battle of Loos in late September 1915. It does seem unlikely that he would have been gassed three times in as many months.
Anyway, as I say I am in and out of the National Archives regularly. So if you would like me to do some digging let me know. A personal message via this vanilla thing with such detail as you have would be a good starting point or email me at HurstLlama dot gmail dot com. I'd be happy to do what I can, I do so love a WWI mystery.
@HurstLlama The most likely candidate for his first "gassing" would fit with "Loos" as his battalion arrived at the Western front in early December 1914, and there is no major mention of gas in the first battalion's history in the "Chronicle" which was not under the heavy censorship that became the "norm" in 1916/17 (he appeared on the casualty list for late 1915 as far as I can work out)
Today’s poll uncovers a potential problem for Mr Salmond in that debate – expectations of his performance are rather high. As many as 37% think that Mr Salmond will win the debate, while only 11% are willing to put their money on Mr Darling. Even amongst No supporters, only 24% reckon the former Chancellor is the pre-debate favourite. So even if the First Minister does do well on Tuesday, perhaps voters will simply say that it was an uneven contest in the first place and discount it – while a poor performance would apparently put Mr Salmond at greater risk of leaving voters disappointed.
@HurstLlama From what I have read, it seems likely that the first time he was gassed, it was by his own side!
Crumbs, the earliest that would have been at the Battle of Loos in late September 1915. It does seem unlikely that he would have been gassed three times in as many months.
Anyway, as I say I am in and out of the National Archives regularly. So if you would like me to do some digging let me know. A personal message via this vanilla thing with such detail as you have would be a good starting point or email me at HurstLlama dot gmail dot com. I'd be happy to do what I can, I do so love a WWI mystery.
Could he have been gassed once (at Loos); but hospitalised three times due to the gas induced damage leaving him vulnerable to smoke inhalation or secondary infections?
How easy is it to establish when my grandfathers transfer between regiments occurred? I do not know when in 16/17 it happened, whether in France or in Mesopotamia. I do not know whether it happened as an individual or as part of a larger transfer. It would help me to place his exact movements and battles. He didn't like to speak about the Somme.
Btw, rubbishy as Iain Gray was, I think it might behoove 'Britain's most read political blog' to spell his name correctly in a blog about Scottish politics.
Divvie, I have to plead guilty to that as well by just copying it from the post I was replying to.
@foxinsoxuk The first time would have been chlorine, from which their was a good recovery rate. The last time would fit with "mustard gas" as according to what I gather, he was "demobed" as being unfit for further active service, possibly after a spell in the reserve battalions. Note the "demobed" as opposed to invalided out, which would have entailed a pension.
MG Stop telling lies..I have never said that shelling by either side is acceptable...they are both as bad as each other...quit with the lies.
what are you wittering on about, you said yesterday that the shelling was not deliberate blah blah blah. I today merely said it was not acceptable regardless. If you as you say think like me that all shelling is bad , Hurrah. You are another one that needs to look in the mirror before bumping your gums. You like giving it out but not taking it.
@HurstLlama From what I have read, it seems likely that the first time he was gassed, it was by his own side!
Crumbs, the earliest that would have been at the Battle of Loos in late September 1915. It does seem unlikely that he would have been gassed three times in as many months.
Anyway, as I say I am in and out of the National Archives regularly. So if you would like me to do some digging let me know. A personal message via this vanilla thing with such detail as you have would be a good starting point or email me at HurstLlama dot gmail dot com. I'd be happy to do what I can, I do so love a WWI mystery.
Could he have been gassed once (at Loos); but hospitalised three times due to the gas induced damage leaving him vulnerable to smoke inhalation or secondary infections?
How easy is it to establish when my grandfathers transfer between regiments occurred? I do not know when in 16/17 it happened, whether in France or in Mesopotamia. I do not know whether it happened as an individual or as part of a larger transfer. It would help me to place his exact movements and battles. He didn't like to speak about the Somme.
Doc, probably not easy at all. The problem is, as Mr. Smarmeron alluded to earlier, a big chunk of the WWI army records was lost due to enemy action in WWII. Battalion war diaries can help but they seldom mention the names or service numbers of other ranks (I recall on which after an action in 1915 stated, "115 OR replacements arrived" . Hofficers are usually much easier. Nonetheless, it is sometimes possible to piece together an individual's story (I am working on one at the moment, a chap who appears on our village war memorial but who was discharged from the army, fit and well, in 1920!).
If you want me to give it a go then let me have such details as you have and I'll do my best.
On topic: The key to this is surely Mike's last sentence: "Salmond has to change minds of those segments of the Scottish electorate still very nervous about moving from the status quo." No matter how good his 'performance' is, it's hard to see how he can do that, given that the Yes side have made such a total mess of their positioning on every one of the key issues which will make many Scots nervous - the currency, membership of the EU, jobs in defence and financial services, pensions, and the outlook for the public finances. He has no answers on these questions, and it's too late to formulate answers now. The Yes side should have done that long ago.
Bluster on these key issues has got Salmond remarkably far, but I'd be surprised if it gets an increased number votes for Yes in the ballot box, relative to what the polls are currently showing. To the contrary, I'd expect the final result to be a more emphatic No than some at least of the polls suggest.
So it may be that Salmond will indeed 'win' the debates - but what good will that do?
@HurstLlama "Fit" and "well" seems to have been a matter of counting up appendages, and the ability to stand upright (shades of ATOS? :-) ), and in the case of "mustard gas" the damage could carry on getting progressively worse, resulting in death from "war wounds" at a far later date, or possibly a piece of shrapnel that "moved"?
BetVictor's current odds on the winner of the Scottish Indy TV debate:
Salmond ......... 8/13
Darling ........... 6/5
Overround : 7%
Hmm - If the No:Yes Indy vote itself appears to be splitting 60% : 40% or thereabouts, I wonder to what extent viewers might decide to vote for the advocate who reflects their Indy preference, irrespective of their respective TV performances, otherwise known as "wanting to vote for the winning side". If this were indeed to prove a significant factor then Darling's odds could prove good value.
In many ways it is a bit of a pointless debate as neither Salmond nor Darling is proposing Scottish independence. Instead, both favour Scotland's economic and fiscal policy continuing to be set from London. The only difference being that Darling supports Scottish voters having some say in who gets to make the decisions and what those decisions are, while Salmond favours leaving it entirely in the hands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters.
@HurstLlama "Fit" and "well" seem to have been a matter of counting up appendages, and the ability to stand upright (shades of ATOS? :-) ), and in the case of "mustard gas" the damage could carry on getting progressively worse, resulting in death from "war wounds" at a far later date, or possibly a piece of shrapnel that "moved"?
All good points, Mr. Smarmeron. Herself's grandfather died in the early 1960's of wounds received in WWI. However, the old boy did not appear on his village's war memorial. The chap I was talking about does appear on the War Memorial (erected 1921) as having been killed in the war, at that time he was living in London and on the army reserve, so not an invalid. By the way two of his five brothers are also on the memorial and they were killed in action and his family were still living in the village when the memorial was put up. An interesting tale to be ferreted out, don't you think.
MG ,Not crazy..just peed off with your constant lying.
worse than crazy , delusional as well. I have not had contact with or mentioned you for years, apart from your comments yesterday re shelling civilian areas. Get a life.
In many ways it is a bit of a pointless debate as neither Salmond nor Darling is proposing Scottish independence. Instead, both favour Scotland's economic and fiscal policy continuing to be set from London. The only difference being that Darling supports Scottish voters having some say in who gets to make the decisions and what those decisions are, while Salmond favours leaving it entirely in the hands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters.
@HurstLlama Yes, that does seem like a puzzle worthwhile exploring, and hopefully more than just a misreading of a number by some overworked clerk. There are several "corrections" in quite a few of the regimental newsletters I have been reading that were originally sourced from the London Gazette.
In many ways it is a bit of a pointless debate as neither Salmond nor Darling is proposing Scottish independence. Instead, both favour Scotland's economic and fiscal policy continuing to be set from London. The only difference being that Darling supports Scottish voters having some say in who gets to make the decisions and what those decisions are, while Salmond favours leaving it entirely in the hands of English, Welsh and Northern Irish voters.
SO , very silly post from you.
I don't see how. Salmond and the SNP want a currency union with the rUK. That means Westminster dictating Scotland's fiscal and economic policies. I am pretty sure that will be agreed after a Yes vote, but it will mean de facto that Scotland is not an independent country.
But wouldn't Scotland staying in the Union effectively mean that Dave and co. will never win a majority at Westminster, whether in 2015 or the scheduled 2020 election?
@HurstLlama Yes, that does seem like a puzzle worthwhile exploring, and hopefully more than just a misreading of a number by some overworked clerk. There are several "corrections" in quite a few of the regimental newsletters I have been reading that were originally sourced from the London Gazette.
The thing that bangs away at me is that the family who had definitely lost two boys were still living in the village when the war memorial was put up. Did they not notice the name of the third who was at that time living in South London? Was it just not wanting to cause a fuss that stopped them acting? Who knows? I am trying to find the family, so maybe I'll one day find out.
Anyway, if you want research at the NA the offers stands.
@HurstLlama From what I have read, it seems likely that the first time he was gassed, it was by his own side!
Crumbs, the earliest that would have been at the Battle of Loos in late September 1915. It does seem unlikely that he would have been gassed three times in as many months.
Anyway, as I say I am in and out of the National Archives regularly. So if you would like me to do some digging let me know. A personal message via this vanilla thing with such detail as you have would be a good starting point or email me at HurstLlama dot gmail dot com. I'd be happy to do what I can, I do so love a WWI mystery.
Could he have been gassed once (at Loos); but hospitalised three times due to the gas induced damage leaving him vulnerable to smoke inhalation or secondary infections?
How easy is it to establish when my grandfathers transfer between regiments occurred? I do not know when in 16/17 it happened, whether in France or in Mesopotamia. I do not know whether it happened as an individual or as part of a larger transfer. It would help me to place his exact movements and battles. He didn't like to speak about the Somme.
Doc, probably not easy at all. The problem is, as Mr. Smarmeron alluded to earlier, a big chunk of the WWI army records was lost due to enemy action in WWII. Battalion war diaries can help but they seldom mention the names or service numbers of other ranks (I recall on which after an action in 1915 stated, "115 OR replacements arrived" . Hofficers are usually much easier. Nonetheless, it is sometimes possible to piece together an individual's story (I am working on one at the moment, a chap who appears on our village war memorial but who was discharged from the army, fit and well, in 1920!).
If you want me to give it a go then let me have such details as you have and I'll do my best.
I may have a poke around myself in the regimental museums and see what I can turn up.
He did leave a few clues (he was an amateur photographer so there are family pictures, from Mesopotamia), but perhaps the details do not matter much really.
He wanted to forget the war, and apart from descriptions of Mesopotamia did not like to talk about it. I don't think that he ever had been abroad either before or after, so Mesopotamia was quite a novelty. He preferred to discuss the cricket, and the future rather than dwell on the past. Sensible fellow that he was.
@HurstLlama I may take you up on your kind offer, but at the moment, all I have to go on is the Regiments newsletters which get progressively sketchier as the war progressed. The mentions in the "Gazette" including the bare mention of the award of the M.M. in January 1917 (three months after? but unsure as the medal could be backdated to 1914), the medal index card, and possibly a fragment of a service record, though no guarantee that it was his. The rest is guesswork.
Labour will allow voting all week under plans to shake up democracy, Sadiq Khan tells the Sunday Times
LOL! That's how we used to do things 100 years ago.
Note that it is not designed to improve democracy - but to 'shake it up' - which is style over substance - again.
They want to appear to be interested in changing things without any concern as to whether that change is necessary, desirable or will actually be deliverable.
There is no over-arching plan to explain their moves - they just want headlines to give the appearance of activity. No detail, no reason - just noise.
I hear tell that the Royal Navy has this morning evacuated 110 British Citizens from Libya. Thank goodness we exceeded the UN no-fly resolution. Can you imagine what might have happened if Cameron had not been able to act out his fantasies?
You will note the lack of shrieking and frothing from intelligent YES side unlike the frothing unionists
So you think the FM of Scotland office is the same as an anonymous spectator at a sporting event? Interesting....
As there is no segregation at these events; just possibly the England supporter was merely supporting an English athlete, rather than deliberate photobombing!
I hear tell that the Royal Navy has this morning evacuated 110 British Citizens from Libya. Thank goodness we exceeded the UN no-fly resolution. Can you imagine what might have happened if Cameron had not been able to act out his fantasies?
Gaddafi promised to hunt the rebels down alley by alley, house by house, and slaughter them like rats.
You will note the lack of shrieking and frothing from intelligent YES side unlike the frothing unionists
So you think the FM of Scotland office is the same as an anonymous spectator at a sporting event? Interesting....
As there is no segregation at these events; just possibly the England supporter was merely supporting an English athlete, rather than deliberate photobombing!
As for Darling, Curtice said: "I would say to him, play to type and make this as boring as possible … play a dead bat. It's not to Darling's advantage to up the ante. You need to think of this as being like the second leg of a European cup match in which one side is already 2-0 up and is therefore trying to stop the other side from scoring."
@HurstLlama Yes, that does seem like a puzzle worthwhile exploring, and hopefully more than just a misreading of a number by some overworked clerk. There are several "corrections" in quite a few of the regimental newsletters I have been reading that were originally sourced from the London Gazette.
The thing that bangs away at me is that the family who had definitely lost two boys were still living in the village when the war memorial was put up. Did they not notice the name of the third who was at that time living in South London? Was it just not wanting to cause a fuss that stopped them acting? Who knows? I am trying to find the family, so maybe I'll one day find out.
Anyway, if you want research at the NA the offers stands.
Wonder if the family were very wary of being seen to criticise their betters' decisions (maybe 1911 census data hint at social status?). I had to read up on war memorials as relevant to something in the 'day job' and I was struck - apart from the sheer artistic quality of many of them - how even the smallest village memorial could be intensely political and class/conflict laden at all levels - e.g. Memorials of the Great War in Britain : the symbolism and politics of remembrance by Alex King and Aftermath : remembering the Great War in Wales by A. Gaffney. There are some utterly heartbreaking stories about the bereaved being shouldered to one side by the local great and good grabbing the limelight. The latter evidently were not in the least sensitive to criticism from their inferiors.
Om one English village war memorial I noticed someone who so far has not been shown to have lived there and we are wondering if his uncle the vicar slipped it in on the basis of a few visits to him and his paying much of the cost.
Letting loose the lunatics - wasn’t the greatest of ideas Giving them plans and money to squander Should have been the worst of our fears The dream life luxury living was a pleasant no. 10 whim But somewhere down the line of production They left out human beings
They were going to build communities It was going to be pie in the sky But the piss stench hallways and broken down lifts Say the planners dream went wrong
If people were made to live in boxes God would have given them string To tie around their selves at bed time And stop their dreams falling through the ceiling
And the public school boy computers Keep spewing out our future The house in the country designs the 14th floor Old Mrs. Smith don’t get out much more Coitus interruptus cause of next doors rows Your washing gets nicked when the lights go out Baby’s scream in the nightmare throng But planners just get embarrassed when their plans go wrong
You mean wee Eck wasn't like a child with a tantrum when the RED arrows didn't blow blue and white smoke.
Do me a favour. That's exactly what is most likely to have happened. The closer Eck gets to losng, the more hysterical he and the Gnats become.
Silly person , his only comment was that it was perfectly acceptable and that the government had never asked for anything different , despite Fallon lying through his unionist teeth.
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
They are going to get rid of Trident - but keep the jobs????
The Scottish Government has rejected claims by a defence contractor that the Faslane naval base is unlikely to require the same number of personnel in an independent Scotland.
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
They are going to get rid of Trident - but keep the jobs????
The Scottish Government has rejected claims by a defence contractor that the Faslane naval base is unlikely to require the same number of personnel in an independent Scotland.
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
I do think it's bad that the SNP have tried to politicize the CWG (though it was probably inevitable) but wouldn't it be more advisable for Clegg to keep his head down and shut up until after 18th September?
They are going to get rid of Trident - but keep the jobs????
The Scottish Government has rejected claims by a defence contractor that the Faslane naval base is unlikely to require the same number of personnel in an independent Scotland.
‘While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. “We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.
According to the Guardian, Salmond has employed “a lifestyle coach and happiness guru” in advance of his crucial televised debate against Alistair Darling.
Must admit I’ve never thought of the FM as the happy, smiley face of Scotland, but, hey ho…
According to the Guardian, Salmond has employed “a lifestyle coach and happiness guru” in advance of his crucial televised debate against Alistair Darling.
Must admit I’ve never thought of the FM as the happy, smiley face of Scotland, but, hey ho…
Thought that was Malcolmg......
The prospect of Malcolmg as "a lifestyle and happiness guru" would be an interesting one!
I would have thought that such a coach would be redundant for Salmond, he only needs some government trews and a five star golfing break to stay smiling...
"Q35. Who was once caught in the toilets of STV, drunk on booze and smearing shit all over the wall to spell out the words “STV is shit”? Was it weatherman Lloyd Quinan, Newsreader Angus Simpson or Sportscaster Jim Delahunt?
Comments
It was Gordon Brown (not Darling) who, in 1997, moved responsibility for bank supervision away from the Bank of England to the FSA. The FSA's poor regulation of RBS in 2007 was largely responsible for the failure of RBS by its own admission as reported by Citywire as follows:
"The FSA’s report into RBS, which only saw the light of day after pressure from the Treasury Select Committee after the regulator put out a statement last year merely saying there would be no enforcement against the bank or any individuals, concluded the failure of RBS was a combination of the six following reasons:
•Significant weaknesses in RBS’s capital position, as a result of management decisions and permitted by an inadequate global regulatory capital framework
•Over-reliance on risky short-term wholesale funding, which was permitted by an inadequate approach to the regulation of liquidity
•Concerns and uncertainties about RBS’s underlying asset quality, which in turn was subject to little fundamental analysis by the FSA
•Substantial losses in credit trading activities, which eroded market confidence. Both RBS’s strategy and the FSA’s supervisory approach underestimated how bad losses associated with structured credit might be
•The ABN AMRO acquisition, on which RBS proceeded without appropriate heed to the risks involved and with inadequate due diligence
•·An overall systemic crisis in which the banks in worse relative positions were extremely vulnerable to failure. RBS was one such bank. "
Have just registered and tried to watch something and been told that STV player is only available within the STV region.
Looks like YouTube (after the event) it is.
Sorry guys.
Numbers were issued by regiment until 1920, after which they became service-wide. Before that transferring regiments got you a new number. Also, because it was regiment-specific, two soldiers in different regiments could have the same number.
There have been several major changes since (most recently JPA in 2007) but 1920 was the big shake-up.
I can help further on this if you wish.
Edit: officers only had numbers after 1920
People living in England, Wales and NI don't get a vote so don't see any reason to follow the arguments about which way to vote.
Since it is a union between Scotland and the Rest of the UK it seems strange that only one of the parties gets to vote about the continuation of the union. Of course people in England would probably vote to break away from Scotland if they could.
He quite liked the Turks and thought them brave and honourable opponents. As he was an Infantry private in the second battle of Kut, he spoke with experience! How times have moved on. Now we have the same brutal battles, but far less honour.
I do agree that this is ridiculous, especially with all the digital channels they have at their disposal these days.
My grandfather had two regimental numbers, for which there have been several explanations, but none made any real sense.
The problem I have at the moment is that what little there is in the way of information (service records destroyed in the 1940 bombing, and incomplete medical records due to lack of space in the 30's) mean that either his story does not fit the timeline, or possibly he was in hospital when the first battalion left France for Mesopotamia in Jan 1915.
Mind you, up until now, watching different regional telly isn't something I've given a great deal of thought about...
I doubt most of rUK will be that happy about missing Corrie and Emmerdale to watch a Scottish referendum debate on which they have no vote, though hopefully we political junkies can find channels to watch it on, whether on the internet, BBC/Sky News and BBC Parliament etc
Within a couple of year we might well find ourselves in a currency union with a separate nation and all the ramifications that could have on the taxpayer of what's left of the UK.
If my grandfather did leave France with his original regiment and battalion, they were in the same battles (1st HLI ).
The story however is that he had been "gassed" three times, and that would fit with him being on the wounded rolls three times in the "HLI chronicle", except that the dates are wrong, as I am not sure that gas featured heavily in Iraq or Egypt?
Yes 6
No 1.19
Matched bets to date: £1,156,157
Unclear why the Betfair and Betdaq prices are so out of line with the bookie prices at the moment. They have been very similar up until about a week ago. (Presumably because of increasingly good liquidity.) Eg. current Coral prices:
Yes 5
No 1.14
For value-seekers it is obvious where to go.
Tee hee.
SNP 4/6
Lab 11/10
Any other 150/1
His main war time grievance was that the married men got home leave, while he and the other batchelors had to pack the ship in France. He thought this quite unreasonable!
Over 75% 5/6
75% or under 5/6
The lack of detail is always going to be annoying, but it would be a fairly safe bet to assume that your grandfather will have fought alongside my grandfather's original battalion in Iraq.
Censorship at the time means that details are sketchy though, and the 1st HLI war diaries have not been digitized yet, and at over £3 a pop for each document from the National Archives, I would like to pin his movements down a little more precisely before ordering the more likely ones.
He was in the same position though, also being unmarried at the time.
Such diaries seldom mention the names of other ranks who were casualties but they will normally mention matters like being subject to gas attack. They are available for view at the National Archives in Kew. I think you may be a long distance away but I am in and out of the NA regularly would you like me to do some research the next time I am there?
From what I have read, it seems likely that the first time he was gassed, it was by his own side!
There are several Commonwealth War graves sites there, with members of his unit in them, that are well kept (or were a few years back). My brother visited the site when posted to Iraq.
Thanks for the offer, but I will have to do more research before asking you to pour over the "dry" documents on what might be a wild goose chase.
Hopefully, the digitization of the regimental war diaries will mean I can view them at the Mitchel Library in Glasgow.
Again, thanks for the offer. it is appreciated.
Anyway, as I say I am in and out of the National Archives regularly. So if you would like me to do some digging let me know. A personal message via this vanilla thing with such detail as you have would be a good starting point or email me at HurstLlama dot gmail dot com. I'd be happy to do what I can, I do so love a WWI mystery.
The most likely candidate for his first "gassing" would fit with "Loos" as his battalion arrived at the Western front in early December 1914, and there is no major mention of gas in the first battalion's history in the "Chronicle" which was not under the heavy censorship that became the "norm" in 1916/17 (he appeared on the casualty list for late 1915 as far as I can work out)
Today’s poll uncovers a potential problem for Mr Salmond in that debate – expectations of his performance are rather high. As many as 37% think that Mr Salmond will win the debate, while only 11% are willing to put their money on Mr Darling. Even amongst No supporters, only 24% reckon the former Chancellor is the pre-debate favourite. So even if the First Minister does do well on Tuesday, perhaps voters will simply say that it was an uneven contest in the first place and discount it – while a poor performance would apparently put Mr Salmond at greater risk of leaving voters disappointed.
http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/08/survation-suggest-the-games-have-had-little-impact/
Could he have been gassed once (at Loos); but hospitalised three times due to the gas induced damage leaving him vulnerable to smoke inhalation or secondary infections?
@HL
How easy is it to establish when my grandfathers transfer between regiments occurred? I do not know when in 16/17 it happened, whether in France or in Mesopotamia. I do not know whether it happened as an individual or as part of a larger transfer. It would help me to place his exact movements and battles. He didn't like to speak about the Somme.
The first time would have been chlorine, from which their was a good recovery rate. The last time would fit with "mustard gas" as according to what I gather, he was "demobed" as being unfit for further active service, possibly after a spell in the reserve battalions.
Note the "demobed" as opposed to invalided out, which would have entailed a pension.
If you as you say think like me that all shelling is bad , Hurrah.
You are another one that needs to look in the mirror before bumping your gums.
You like giving it out but not taking it.
If you want me to give it a go then let me have such details as you have and I'll do my best.
Bluster on these key issues has got Salmond remarkably far, but I'd be surprised if it gets an increased number votes for Yes in the ballot box, relative to what the polls are currently showing. To the contrary, I'd expect the final result to be a more emphatic No than some at least of the polls suggest.
So it may be that Salmond will indeed 'win' the debates - but what good will that do?
@PeteWishart: I like to give a fond, friendly 'au revoir' to all my new blocked friends. Just to show that there's no hard feelings.
All heretics will be banned. Only the One True Word of Eck is permissible.
What an intolerant place a separate Scotland would be.
"Fit" and "well" seems to have been a matter of counting up appendages, and the ability to stand upright (shades of ATOS? :-) ), and in the case of "mustard gas" the damage could carry on getting progressively worse, resulting in death from "war wounds" at a far later date, or possibly a piece of shrapnel that "moved"?
Labour's manifesto will also offer same day voter registration, Sadiq Khan tells Sunday Times
Vote early, vote often, vote for all your fictional relatives...
Salmond ......... 8/13
Darling ........... 6/5
Overround : 7%
Hmm - If the No:Yes Indy vote itself appears to be splitting 60% : 40% or thereabouts, I wonder to what extent viewers might decide to vote for the advocate who reflects their Indy preference, irrespective of their respective TV performances, otherwise known as "wanting to vote for the winning side".
If this were indeed to prove a significant factor then Darling's odds could prove good value.
DYOR
Get a life.
Yes, that does seem like a puzzle worthwhile exploring, and hopefully more than just a misreading of a number by some overworked clerk. There are several "corrections" in quite a few of the regimental newsletters I have been reading that were originally sourced from the London Gazette.
Anyway, if you want research at the NA the offers stands.
He did leave a few clues (he was an amateur photographer so there are family pictures, from Mesopotamia), but perhaps the details do not matter much really.
He wanted to forget the war, and apart from descriptions of Mesopotamia did not like to talk about it. I don't think that he ever had been abroad either before or after, so Mesopotamia was quite a novelty. He preferred to discuss the cricket, and the future rather than dwell on the past. Sensible fellow that he was.
I may take you up on your kind offer, but at the moment, all I have to go on is the Regiments newsletters which get progressively sketchier as the war progressed. The mentions in the "Gazette" including the bare mention of the award of the M.M. in January 1917 (three months after? but unsure as the medal could be backdated to 1914), the medal index card, and possibly a fragment of a service record, though no guarantee that it was his.
The rest is guesswork.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/commonwealth-games-2014-alex-salmond-photobombed-by-spectator-with-english-flag-9644798.html
They want to appear to be interested in changing things without any concern as to whether that change is necessary, desirable or will actually be deliverable.
There is no over-arching plan to explain their moves - they just want headlines to give the appearance of activity. No detail, no reason - just noise.
Do me a favour. That's exactly what is most likely to have happened. The closer Eck gets to losng, the more hysterical he and the Gnats become.
That was the alternative.
http://www.foxsports.com/olympics/story/queen-shows-off-her-photobomb-skills-at-commonwealth-games-072414
As for Darling, Curtice said: "I would say to him, play to type and make this as boring as possible … play a dead bat. It's not to Darling's advantage to up the ante. You need to think of this as being like the second leg of a European cup match in which one side is already 2-0 up and is therefore trying to stop the other side from scoring."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/curtice-darling-needs-to-bore-for-britain.24939203
Om one English village war memorial I noticed someone who so far has not been shown to have lived there and we are wondering if his uncle the vicar slipped it in on the basis of a few visits to him and his paying much of the cost.
Giving them plans and money to squander
Should have been the worst of our fears
The dream life luxury living was a pleasant no. 10 whim
But somewhere down the line of production
They left out human beings
They were going to build communities
It was going to be pie in the sky
But the piss stench hallways and broken down lifts
Say the planners dream went wrong
If people were made to live in boxes
God would have given them string
To tie around their selves at bed time
And stop their dreams falling through the ceiling
And the public school boy computers
Keep spewing out our future
The house in the country designs the 14th floor
Old Mrs. Smith don’t get out much more
Coitus interruptus cause of next doors rows
Your washing gets nicked when the lights go out
Baby’s scream in the nightmare throng
But planners just get embarrassed when their plans go wrong
The UN is a waste of time. It cannot hold any powerful countries to account !
"The Commonwealth Games are exactly what everybody wants them to be, which is a wonderful festival of sport bringing athletes together from around the Commonwealth, from around the world, and it really shouldn't be distorted or sullied by the politics of the SNP."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/clegg-sturgeon-was-misplaced-and-gauche-to-link-games-with-yes-vote.1407073530
The Scottish Government has rejected claims by a defence contractor that the Faslane naval base is unlikely to require the same number of personnel in an independent Scotland.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/baillie-11000-jobs-at-faslane-naval-base-at-risk-in-iscotland.1407076151
Try reading the White Paper
https://m.facebook.com/notes/ally-mccoist-mr-rangers/get-stv-on-sky-outside-scotland-for-walter-smith-programme-tonight/212254975482127
"If you vote No...you are a bad parent". That's what @YesScotland meetings are telling Scots. Desperate. #indyref http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn2bfD1LvZw …
.Who the hell is this booze-faced thug?
I would have thought that such a coach would be redundant for Salmond, he only needs some government trews and a five star golfing break to stay smiling...
A. Lloyd Quinan"
http://dpquiz.co.uk/famous-people/bad-behaviour.html