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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » UKIP drops to its lowest point since February 2013 with Opinium

For the past two years or so the fortnightly Opinium survey for the Observer has been one that has had some of the highest shares for UKIP – even, at times, into the 20s. This has happened even though Opinium doesn’t prompt for the purples and has them categorised as “some other party”.

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Neil

Some posters are going to be very upset with OGH for allowing this thread!

TheScreamingEagles

Only 2 points between The Greens and the Lib Dems.

Many thanks to Neil for offering me 20/1 on the Greens outpolling the Lib Dems at the GE.

Neil

TheScreamingEagles said:

Only 2 points between The Greens and the Lib Dems.

Many thanks to Neil for offering me 20/1 on the Greens outpolling the Lib Dems at the GE.

Many, many thanks to you for taking it!

foxinsoxuk

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

TheScreamingEagles

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

No_Offence_Alan

I expect UKIP will get a boost again during the conference season, when the Tories will just not be able to stop themselves from "banging on about Europe", when no-one cares.

Neil

No_Offence_Alan said:

I expect UKIP will get a boost again during the conference season, when the Tories will just not be able to stop themselves from "banging on about Europe", when no-one cares.

The Tories have been incredibly disciplined lately. Hardly any stupidity from them after they slipped to 3rd in the Euros. With a GE coming up I think they've learned their lesson and will be on message through conference.

TheScreamingEagles

No_Offence_Alan said:

I expect UKIP will get a boost again during the conference season, when the Tories will just not be able to stop themselves from "banging on about Europe", when no-one cares.

I read somewhere that the Tory conference will be dominated by the economy and don't let weirdo Ed and Labour ruin it (again) themes.

Edit: That's assuming a no vote in your part of the world.

If it is a yes, then the conference season is going to be a bit messy.

Labour's conference begins 2 days after the indy referendum, if it's a Yes, then the conference is going to be very weird.

AndyJS

UKIP running at 43% of the party in first place. That seems like a not bad position for a party that was at 3% in the polls two and a half years ago to be in.

foxinsoxuk

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

TheScreamingEagles

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Patience.

In the last parliament, the last major polling shift didn't happen until January 2010.

OldKingCole

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

TheScreamingEagles

Commonwealth games triumph 'will put Scots on path to independence', says SNP

Nicola Sturgeon says record haul of medals has imbued voters with confidence and momentum is with yes campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/games-will-put-scots-on-path-to-independence

Flightpath

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

TheScreamingEagles

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

JackW

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Sshhh ....

I'll say nowt if you do too .... but the election isn't until next May ....

No_Offence_Alan

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

Grandiose

Both Labour and the Tories will want UKIP to fall back a bit, allowing them to not only merely campaign against each other but also - more subtely - to frame the campaign in those terms. For this reason I think the Greens and others have ridden on the back of UKIP's rise, because of the split narrative.

TheScreamingEagles

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

Increased NHS spending.

Increased the jsa benefits higher than inflation at the start of the parliament.

Appointed for the first Asian/Muslim cabinet minister.

OldKingCole

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

In my formative political days the Tories regularly beat the Labour Party about the head with the 1947-9 Tanganyikan Groundnuts Scheme.
I suspect Gay Marriage will be lauded as a totemic "liberal and socially concerned" policy on the same basis. Doesn't outweigh the bedroom tax or a whole load of other "nasty" policies directed at the unfortunate!

TheScreamingEagles

OldKingCole said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

In my formative political days the Tories regularly beat the Labour Party about the head with the 1947-9 Tanganyikan Groundnuts Scheme.
I suspect Gay Marriage will be lauded as a totemic "liberal and socially concerned" policy on the same basis. Doesn't outweigh the bedroom tax or a whole load of other "nasty" policies directed at the unfortunate!

We've also lifted the poorest out of paying taxes with the personal allowance increases.

Compare and contrast with the last government that used BNP slogans and had an immigration minister who won an election by making the whites angry in a seat blighted by race riots.

nigel4england

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

I see Mike is relishing the fallback in UKIP support whilst conveniently ignoring the pathetic LD polling.

foxinsoxuk

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think it would be very unwise for the LDs to run in a coupon election, on a joint ticket. There would lie the path of the National Liberals of the forties and oblivion.

If the LDs are to revive, then at most they must be involved in confidence and supply.

They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

GeoffM

OldKingCole said:

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn.

I would like to see exactly that. Except my vision of a liberal, socially concerned, society is almost certainly utterly different to yours.

It's amazing how flexible certain trite phrases can be.

TheScreamingEagles

nigel4england said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

I see Mike is relishing the fallback in UKIP support whilst conveniently ignoring the pathetic LD polling.

Mike's been pointing that out for ages.

Opinium have historically had the lowest scores for the Lib Dems so that's not news.

But them showing UKIP on the slide is news.

Floater

Nearly missed the Lib Dem column.

peter_from_putney

Yet another encouraging poll for the Tories ...... they appear to be on the move.

MonikerDiCanio

TheScreamingEagles said:

Commonwealth games triumph 'will put Scots on path to independence', says SNP

Nicola Sturgeon says record haul of medals has imbued voters with confidence and momentum is with yes campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/games-will-put-scots-on-path-to-independence

This Nicola Sturgeon?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26081797

TheScreamingEagles

Another poll that shows the Tories merely 4 points down from their GE score and UKIP up 12%

Charles

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

Suggest you vote Tory then... If Cameron loses, then I suspect the unreconstructed wing of the party will be in the ascendant for a cycle. Labour shows no sign of abandoning moral authoritatarianism. Clegg has proved himself too weak to stand up for liberty.

I suspect a continuation of the Coalition or a diminished UKIP threat with a Tory majority would be your best bet

Charles

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

That includes the cost of a massively overspecced airport in St Helena though. I wonder who might benefit from that...

tlg86

When do we think we might know what will happen with the debates? It seems to me that they could be quite important. I'd have thought Cameron would like a PM debate with Miliband, but wouldn't be too keen to come up against Farage.

I'll probably be proved wrong but it would seem absurd to have the same format as last time given the LD's pathetic EU election performance.

Charles

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think it would be very unwise for the LDs to run in a coupon election, on a joint ticket. There would lie the path of the National Liberals of the forties and oblivion.

If the LDs are to revive, then at most they must be involved in confidence and supply.

They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

nigel4england

TheScreamingEagles said:

Another poll that shows the Tories merely 4 points down from their GE score and UKIP up 12%

Shhhhhh..........

That's an inconvenient truth for some.

OldKingCole

Charles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

Suggest you vote Tory then... If Cameron loses, then I suspect the unreconstructed wing of the party will be in the ascendant for a cycle. Labour shows no sign of abandoning moral authoritatarianism. Clegg has proved himself too weak to stand up for liberty.

I suspect a continuation of the Coalition or a diminished UKIP threat with a Tory majority would be your best bet

That really would be Hobson's Choice! Especially given the dubious "social concerns" attitude of the current local Tory MP!

And their views on the EU!

Sunil_Prasannan

Went inside the Velodrome at the Olympic Park in Stratford today

Tim_B

The first Ebola patient has arrived at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. The first case of Ebola in the western hemisphere.

He got out of the ambulance and walked into the hospital unaided.

The specially equipped Gulfstream has now started back to Liberia to get the second patient, who will also be coming to Emory.

CNN going with it big time as they are a) based in Atlanta, and b) their medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta is on the Emory faculty.

Tim_B

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Went inside the Velodrome at the Olympic Park in Stratford today

I went after lunch.... :-)

foxinsoxuk

Charles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think it would be very unwise for the LDs to run in a coupon election, on a joint ticket. There would lie the path of the National Liberals of the forties and oblivion.

If the LDs are to revive, then at most they must be involved in confidence and supply.

They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

The National Liberals were eventually absorbed by the Tories, as were the coupon Liberals of the twenties, and in the 19th century also. To go into coalition again would risk a fourth absorbtion, and the rump LDs would take a very long time to recover.

foxinsoxuk

Tim_B said:

The first Ebola patient has arrived at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. The first case of Ebola in the western hemisphere.

He got out of the ambulance and walked into the hospital unaided.

The specially equipped Gulfstream has now started back to Liberia to get the second patient, who will also be coming to Emory.

CNN going with it big time as they are a) based in Atlanta, and b) their medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta is on the Emory faculty.

Emory and the CDC are the best place in the world for the disease to be investigated and studied. It is not just for the benefit of the individual, but for all our benefit that they get on the case ASAP.

Flightpath

Foxinsox says - (quite reasonably) -
'They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.'

Yes quite reasonable - but for what purpose?
What is the purpose of 40 libdem MPs? What can they achieve? Perhaps they should merge with Labour? Do they like Labour? Are they left wing?
Perhaps they should continue with the Tories? Do they like the Tories? Are they right wing?

What are they ? Why are they? What is the point of them to regenerate if they then fall apart the next time they have to make a choice about something?

TheScreamingEagles

David Cameron's personal rating has fallen slightly. His net score – those of whom approve of his leadership minus those who disapprove – is now -8, with 38% approving and 46% disapproving.

Miliband's rating has fallen by four points to -24, with 24% approving and 48% disapproving.

Clegg is on -44% (16% vs 60%) and Nigel Farage is on -6% (32% vs 38%).

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/observer-opinium-poll-labour-lead-narrows

Flightpath

MonikerDiCanio said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Commonwealth games triumph 'will put Scots on path to independence', says SNP

Nicola Sturgeon says record haul of medals has imbued voters with confidence and momentum is with yes campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/games-will-put-scots-on-path-to-independence

This Nicola Sturgeon?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26081797

Hilarious - well spotted.

GeoffM

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think it would be very unwise for the LDs to run in a coupon election, on a joint ticket. There would lie the path of the National Liberals of the forties and oblivion.

If the LDs are to revive, then at most they must be involved in confidence and supply.

They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

The National Liberals were eventually absorbed by the Tories, as were the coupon Liberals of the twenties, and in the 19th century also. To go into coalition again would risk a fourth absorbtion, and the rump LDs would take a very long time to recover.

It's only a "risk" for those who believe in a fixed political establishment which can't be allowed to evolve. The old order must survive, despite the electorate. See the backlash against the rise of UKIP as an example. Who on earth do they think they are, eh?

The fact is that wings of parties (and whole parties) come and go. No party has a right to exist.

Sunil_Prasannan

Tim_B said:

The first Ebola patient has arrived at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. The first case of Ebola in the western hemisphere.

He got out of the ambulance and walked into the hospital unaided.

The specially equipped Gulfstream has now started back to Liberia to get the second patient, who will also be coming to Emory.

CNN going with it big time as they are a) based in Atlanta, and b) their medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta is on the Emory faculty.

Don't panic

TheScreamingEagles

Survation ‏@Survation 51s

Survation/Mail On Sunday. New #indyref poll:

(vs July 11th)

Yes - 40% (-1)
No - 46% (nc)
Undec - 14% (+1)

http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Scottish-Poll-Aug-3rd-MOS-Without-Demographics.pdf

HurstLlama

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think it would be very unwise for the LDs to run in a coupon election, on a joint ticket. There would lie the path of the National Liberals of the forties and oblivion.

If the LDs are to revive, then at most they must be involved in confidence and supply.

They need to be in opposition to regenerate. and faced by an imploding Tory party and a hapless Milliband government, have their best chance to do so.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

The National Liberals were eventually absorbed by the Tories, as were the coupon Liberals of the twenties, and in the 19th century also. To go into coalition again would risk a fourth absorbtion, and the rump LDs would take a very long time to recover.

I don't know, Doc, I but I can't for the life of me see what the LibDems are for. Two parties in one each defined by what they aren't and with no discernible unifying idea other than perhaps that the UK should be subsumed into some sort of European state.

The world has turned again, the LibDems seem stuck in a time that has passed; afraid to acknowledge where we now are because that would mean confronting their own internal contradictions. If the Party were a beloved family pet it would be on the way to a final visit to the vet, best not to prolong suffering.

FrancisUrquhart

Independent on Sunday front page - "Cameron and Miliband in furious row over Gaza"

Seems Miliband has attacked Cameron for failure of leadership and silence.

MikeK

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

AndyJS

Once again the Green figure of 5% doesn't reflect what can actually happen in the election, because the party won't have enough candidates to get anywhere near that level of support.

Tim_B

foxinsoxuk said:

Tim_B said:

The first Ebola patient has arrived at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. The first case of Ebola in the western hemisphere.

He got out of the ambulance and walked into the hospital unaided.

The specially equipped Gulfstream has now started back to Liberia to get the second patient, who will also be coming to Emory.

CNN going with it big time as they are a) based in Atlanta, and b) their medical correspondent Sanjay Gupta is on the Emory faculty.

Emory and the CDC are the best place in the world for the disease to be investigated and studied. It is not just for the benefit of the individual, but for all our benefit that they get on the case ASAP.

Brantly's wife has already visited him at Emory, and he has tweeted that he is OK and will be back better than ever.

Emory Healthcare is a well respected provider of health care services in the metro Atlanta area, with several satellite facilities around.

TheScreamingEagles

Survation ‏@Survation 34s

Has Scotland’s organisation of and performance in the Commonwealth Games... made you:
More likely to vote 'Yes' 12%
'No' 7% No diff' - 82%

TheScreamingEagles

Survation ‏@Survation 1m
(Darling vs Salmond)

Who do you think is most likely to win this debate?
Darling - 11%
Salmond - 37%
Neither - 23%
DK - 29%

Scott_P

@hopisen: UK debate on Gaza is basically 'you should be tutting louder'. 'No, I should be tutting everyone' 'No, you should tut -and- roll your eyes'

AndyJS

Rest in peace Mike Smith. Here here is in Top of the Pops in 1983:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkNP2LJLdGc

Sean_F

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Tim_B

AndyJS said:

Rest in peace Mike Smith. Here here is in Top of the Pops in 1983:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkNP2LJLdGc

No idea who Mike Smith is / was. But I remember Tommy Vance - T.V. on radio.

foxinsoxuk

HurstLlama said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

The National Liberals were eventually absorbed by the Tories, as were the coupon Liberals of the twenties, and in the 19th century also. To go into coalition again would risk a fourth absorbtion, and the rump LDs would take a very long time to recover.

I don't know, Doc, I but I can't for the life of me see what the LibDems are for. Two parties in one each defined by what they aren't and with no discernible unifying idea other than perhaps that the UK should be subsumed into some sort of European state.

The world has turned again, the LibDems seem stuck in a time that has passed; afraid to acknowledge where we now are because that would mean confronting their own internal contradictions. If the Party were a beloved family pet it would be on the way to a final visit to the vet, best not to prolong suffering.

The space that the LibDems occupy, speaking for financial sanity, combined with social support for the disadvantaged, and engagement with the international community is not one that will ever completely disappear. Political fashions wax and wane, but I expect that Millibands incoherent government, and the Tories obsessing about europe in opposition give the LDs the best chance to regenerate as the sensible centrist party that the country needs.

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Chickenfeed, really. Compare India's population and the amount in DFID per annum, and calculate per capita.

Omnium

MonikerDiCanio said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Commonwealth games triumph 'will put Scots on path to independence', says SNP

Nicola Sturgeon says record haul of medals has imbued voters with confidence and momentum is with yes campaign

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/02/games-will-put-scots-on-path-to-independence

This Nicola Sturgeon?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-26081797

That's very poor from her isn't it. That sort of thing rather reinforces the idea that the great Scottish people of our age aren't dilly-dallying with parochial concerns, but rather are out there doing stuff, and under a union flag.

Sunil_Prasannan

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

OldKingCole

foxinsoxuk said:

HurstLlama said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Charles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Flightpath said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

Coalition outpolls Labour, there's your consolation.

I am a pro-coalition LD, it is true, but these figures put both coalition parties into opposition.

Not necessrily if they were not to fight each other in their own seats. But could they fight an a common platform? They nprumably will have vote together on the next budget and financial statement.

I think that if the Tories had a majority in 2010, then the LDs would be doing very well at present, with both Cameron and Miliband trailing in a second Cleggasm. But history is full of might have beens..

If you follow that logic then Hezza was the first (National) Liberal DPM since the 20s, not Clegg...

The National Liberals were eventually absorbed by the Tories, as were the coupon Liberals of the twenties, and in the 19th century also. To go into coalition again would risk a fourth absorbtion, and the rump LDs would take a very long time to recover.

I don't know, Doc, I but I can't for the life of me see what the LibDems are for. Two parties in one each defined by what they aren't and with no discernible unifying idea other than perhaps that the UK should be subsumed into some sort of European state.

The world has turned again, the LibDems seem stuck in a time that has passed; afraid to acknowledge where we now are because that would mean confronting their own internal contradictions. If the Party were a beloved family pet it would be on the way to a final visit to the vet, best not to prolong suffering.

The space that the LibDems occupy, speaking for financial sanity, combined with social support for the disadvantaged, and engagement with the international community is not one that will ever completely disappear. Political fashions wax and wane, but I expect that Millibands incoherent government, and the Tories obsessing about europe in opposition give the LDs the best chance to regenerate as the sensible centrist party that the country needs.

Quite right

foxinsoxuk

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

MikeK

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?
I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?

Scott_P

The Survation polling has already shown that Sturgeon is (as ever) talking mince

What she doesn't mention in her article is how many of the brilliant athletes representing Scotland, who have without doubt had a brilliant games, train in England, with English coaches and UK Lottery funding...

Err...

Might they have been Better Together even?

hucks67

FrancisUrquhart said:

Independent on Sunday front page - "Cameron and Miliband in furious row over Gaza"

Seems Miliband has attacked Cameron for failure of leadership and silence.

I agree with Ed. The same could be said about Obama.

The problem is that if Ed was PM, he would probably be just as quiet. For a small country, Israel has a lot of influence in the UK and US, through the Jewish community. Israel can pretty much do what they want and they will get away with it. Could you imagine if it were over 300 Israeli children who had been killed by Palestinians.

Sunil_Prasannan

MikeK said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?


Mike! What makes you think I'm a Muslim? I still have a foreskin, where did yours get to?

Sean_F

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Chickenfeed, really. Compare India's population and the amount in DFID per annum, and calculate per capita.

What's India's population got to do with it?

The fact is we're borrowing money to spend on charity.

Sean_F

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.



Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

No_Offence_Alan

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Yes. Labour talked about it for thirteen years - we did it.
Same goes for linking the state pension to earnings.

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Chickenfeed, really. Compare India's population and the amount in DFID per annum, and calculate per capita.

What's India's population got to do with it?

The fact is we're borrowing money to spend on charity.

Do the maths please! Let's say £300 million p.a. divided by 1.2 billion people.

MarkHopkins

At the moment we seem to have a choice of debates:-

1. Why SNP will rule rue the day (18 Sep 2014).
2. Gaza vs Israel.
3. Why UKIP is doing better worse than the LibDems.

Hmm. Spoilt for choice.

Sunil_Prasannan

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.



Another Kipper defends the child-killer Netanyahu...

GeoffM

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Chickenfeed, really. Compare India's population and the amount in DFID per annum, and calculate per capita.

If it's "chickenfeed" then nobody will mind if we stopped borrowing money to give it away, then?

malcolmg

Scott_P said:

The Survation polling has already shown that Sturgeon is (as ever) talking mince

What she doesn't mention in her article is how many of the brilliant athletes representing Scotland, who have without doubt had a brilliant games, train in England, with English coaches and UK Lottery funding...

Err...

Might they have been Better Together even?

Dear Dear, how low can you get. You cretin who buys the lottery tickets. Also if Westminster build all the facilities in England what do you suggest you absolute turnip.

Sunil_Prasannan

GeoffM said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Sean_F said:

No_Offence_Alan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OldKingCole said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First - Sleazy broken Kippers on the slide.

And to think all those Kippers that criticised David for pointing out the polling trend that UKIP are falling back since the Euros, have a look at this poll

Not much consolation for us LDs though.

I suspect those of us who believe in a liberal, socially concerned, society are going to have to wait for some time for our turn. Clegg blew it, even though I accept he had no choice, in the circumstances that applied in May 2010.

The coalition gave us Gay marriage, you can't get more liberal and socially concerned than that.

And increased the proportion of GDP spent on overseas aid to 0.7%.

And you're bragging it?

Chickenfeed, really. Compare India's population and the amount in DFID per annum, and calculate per capita.

If it's "chickenfeed" then nobody will mind if we stopped borrowing money to give it away, then?

Exactly, it's just bribery by other means.

foxinsoxuk

MikeK said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?


I suspect that Sunil has no heads in his cupboard, I think he is a Hindu. Historically Islamists have not been very keen on Hindus, treating them far worse than people of the book such as Christians and Jews.

I suspect that Sunils concern for the people of Gaza is non-religious compassion.

nigel4england

malcolmg said:

Scott_P said:

The Survation polling has already shown that Sturgeon is (as ever) talking mince

What she doesn't mention in her article is how many of the brilliant athletes representing Scotland, who have without doubt had a brilliant games, train in England, with English coaches and UK Lottery funding...

Err...

Might they have been Better Together even?

Dear Dear, how low can you get. You cretin who buys the lottery tickets. Also if Westminster build all the facilities in England what do you suggest you absolute turnip.

Mo Farah lived in Somalia until he was nine and trains in the US, yet we are happy to claim him as English.

nigel4england

hucks67 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Independent on Sunday front page - "Cameron and Miliband in furious row over Gaza"

Seems Miliband has attacked Cameron for failure of leadership and silence.

I agree with Ed. The same could be said about Obama.

The problem is that if Ed was PM, he would probably be just as quiet. For a small country, Israel has a lot of influence in the UK and US, through the Jewish community. Israel can pretty much do what they want and they will get away with it. Could you imagine if it were over 300 Israeli children who had been killed by Palestinians.

I presume Ed said the same to Barry last week?

Sunil_Prasannan

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?

I suspect that Sunil has no heads in his cupboard, I think he is a Hindu. Historically Islamists have not been very keen on Hindus, treating them far worse than people of the book such as Christians and Jews.

I suspect that Sunils concern for the people of Gaza is non-religious compassion.

Fox, I was "born" a Hindu (assuming a newborn has deep knowledge of Vedic teachings!), but I am an atheist with more than a passing interest in the neurochemical model of the evolution of human religiosity (Sean T probably has more, ah, "experience" of that I guess!).

HurstLlama

foxinsoxuk said:

The space that the LibDems occupy, speaking for financial sanity, combined with social support for the disadvantaged, and engagement with the international community is not one that will ever completely disappear. Political fashions wax and wane, but I expect that Millibands incoherent government, and the Tories obsessing about europe in opposition give the LDs the best chance to regenerate as the sensible centrist party that the country needs.

Sorry, Doc, I am not sure what you mean by regenerate as a sensible centrist party. Do you mean that it isn't at the moment? What is it for, what does it want, what does it believe in.? OK we know that they like the idea of the EU and that the UK should comply with every idea that comes from Brussels, because then we have influence. What odes the LibDem party have to say to the ordinary people?

Tim_B

Ian Poulter, Graeme McDowell, Rory McIlroy, Luke Donald, Lee Westwood - all live in the US and play on the PGA Tour. Guess which Ryder Cup team they'll be on.

Sunil_Prasannan

Tim_B said:

Ian Poulter, Graeme McDowell, Rory McIlroy, Luke Donald, Lee Westwood - all live in the US and play on the PGA Tour. Guess which Ryder Cup team they'll be on.

PGA - is that PG and R movie rating combined?

(yes I know it's a golf acronym LOL)

MarkHopkins

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

SeanT. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.

Scott_P

nigel4england said:

Mo Farah lived in Somalia until he was nine and trains in the US, yet we are happy to claim him as English.

Indeed, but we are not stupid enough to claim that his success has any relevance to the political governance of either Somalia or the UK.

Scotland is entitle to revel in the success of Scottish athletes, but to pretend that is relevant to the indyref debate (given the UK contribution to the Scots' success) is just asinine

foxinsoxuk

Sunil_Prasannan said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?

I suspect that Sunil has no heads in his cupboard, I think he is a Hindu. Historically Islamists have not been very keen on Hindus, treating them far worse than people of the book such as Christians and Jews.

I suspect that Sunils concern for the people of Gaza is non-religious compassion.

Fox, I was "born" a Hindu (assuming a newborn has deep knowledge of Vedic teachings!), but I am an atheist with more than a passing interest in the neurochemical model of the evolution of human religiosity (Sean T probably has more, ah, "experience" of that I guess!).





I travelled the other way, born to an anti-clerical atheist, and now a Christian.

Neuro-chemistry may reveal some insights into religion, but only to the same degree that chemical analysis of paint can tell you about art.

Tim_B

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Tim_B said:

Ian Poulter, Graeme McDowell, Rory McIlroy, Luke Donald, Lee Westwood - all live in the US and play on the PGA Tour. Guess which Ryder Cup team they'll be on.

PGA - is that PG and R movie rating combined?

(yes I know it's a golf acronym LOL)

Thanks on behalf of Mr Llama for pointing that out - you know he doesn't really get golf :-)

Sunil_Prasannan

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

SeanT. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.



Hamas have only killed a handful of Israeli civilians - thankfully I will add.

But your problem as a supporter of Likud's current policy is this: how many Palestinian civilians has Netanyahu killed?

Scott_P

@blairmcdougall: Latest on referendum race: No stretch lead over Salmond's campaign again in new poll taken earlier this week #indyref http://t.co/1MPALkckwc

@blairmcdougall: Nicola Sturgeon's claims in Observer tomorrow look a bit silly now. #indyref

@blairmcdougall: Panelbase & Survation are usually best polls for Salmond's campaign. That both now show movement to NO will only increase his panic #indyref

MarkHopkins

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

SeanT. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.

... your problem as a supporter of Likud's current policy ...

Presuming that is part of the problem. Are you a supporter of the terrorist group Hamas?

MarkHopkins

SeanT said:

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

Sean. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.

Well, not killing 1500 Gazans in a month would be a good place to start. Baby steps, and all that.

And when Hamas fires a rocket that scares, but kills no one, respond proportionately. i.e. Send a rocket which scares but kills no one. At the same time lift the non-military blockade. e.g. Stop the present policy of keeping Gaza on the "brink of collapse" through calorific restrictions etc

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/israel-gaza-blockade_n_1973015.html


You think firing a "scary" rocket at Gaza will stop Hamas and change their attitude.

Seriously?

Sunil_Prasannan

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

foxinsoxuk said:

MikeK said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I killed none. How many heads have you got in your cupboard and where do you hide your machete?

I suspect that Sunil has no heads in his cupboard, I think he is a Hindu. Historically Islamists have not been very keen on Hindus, treating them far worse than people of the book such as Christians and Jews.

I suspect that Sunils concern for the people of Gaza is non-religious compassion.

Fox, I was "born" a Hindu (assuming a newborn has deep knowledge of Vedic teachings!), but I am an atheist with more than a passing interest in the neurochemical model of the evolution of human religiosity (Sean T probably has more, ah, "experience" of that I guess!).

I travelled the other way, born to an anti-clerical atheist, and now a Christian.

Neuro-chemistry may reveal some insights into religion, but only to the same degree that chemical analysis of paint can tell you about art.



Clue: you need to enter an altered state of conciousness to really experience the supernatural.

Our ancestors came across various fungi and plants containing psycho-active compounds that triggered our first wave of religiosity, namely the cave paintings during the Ice Age (say 30,000 years back) found all over the world (eg. France, Oz and S. Africa).

Paintings that depict humans flying, being pierced with sharp devices and transforming into animals, as well as more abstract "entoptic" patterns that look like zigzags and stripes - ALL of which are experienced by those who, er, "sample" compounds like but not limited to DMT and psilocin.

DavidL

Man U now beating Real Madrid 3-1. Van Gaal is looking as inspired as Moyes looked daft. I had reservations about Moyes from the start. He had never won anything and had no experience of Champions League. A really odd decision by SAF. I think they have the right man this time though.

bigjohnowls

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

Sean. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.

Well, not killing 1500 Gazans in a month would be a good place to start. Baby steps, and all that.

And when Hamas fires a rocket that scares, but kills no one, respond proportionately. i.e. Send a rocket which scares but kills no one. At the same time lift the non-military blockade. e.g. Stop the present policy of keeping Gaza on the "brink of collapse" through calorific restrictions etc

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/israel-gaza-blockade_n_1973015.html

You think firing a "scary" rocket at Gaza will stop Hamas and change their attitude.

Seriously?


You think killing hundreds of innocent Kids will help with the rocket thing and not create thousands of more people willing to fire them.

Seriously?

foxinsoxuk

HurstLlama said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The space that the LibDems occupy, speaking for financial sanity, combined with social support for the disadvantaged, and engagement with the international community is not one that will ever completely disappear. Political fashions wax and wane, but I expect that Millibands incoherent government, and the Tories obsessing about europe in opposition give the LDs the best chance to regenerate as the sensible centrist party that the country needs.

Sorry, Doc, I am not sure what you mean by regenerate as a sensible centrist party. Do you mean that it isn't at the moment? What is it for, what does it want, what does it believe in.? OK we know that they like the idea of the EU and that the UK should comply with every idea that comes from Brussels, because then we have influence. What odes the LibDem party have to say to the ordinary people?

Europe is not the main issue to most people. Daily concerns such as taxation, government spending and inflation matter far more to most people, as does the safety net of the welfare state.

I believe that the majority of the British people want a stable growing economy, combined with a stable welfare state that can care for them if they are old or ill. I think that the Tories are sound on the finances, but will trash the welfare state, while Labour will be profligate and imperil the welfare state by crashing the economy.

I recognise that the LibDems will need to retrench and rebuild, but they have done so in the past. The LD polling in 1990 was worse than it is now. I think this is best done on the opposition benches, providing confidence and supply as required. Perhaps the electorate needs to see what the alternative of an unstable minority government is like, in order to see the wisdom of a coalition. The coalition will be far better viewed by the public in 5 years time than it is now.

MarkHopkins

bigjohnowls said:

You think killing hundreds of innocent Kids will help with the rocket thing and not create thousands of more people willing to fire them.

Seriously?

You don't know that "hundreds of innocent kids" have been killed; the numbers are dubious to say the least. Having said that, even one death is a stain on those involved (on both sides).

But what is your solution for Israel? If (as you say) this won't work - what will?

nigel4england

foxinsoxuk said:

HurstLlama said:

foxinsoxuk said:

The space that the LibDems occupy, speaking for financial sanity, combined with social support for the disadvantaged, and engagement with the international community is not one that will ever completely disappear. Political fashions wax and wane, but I expect that Millibands incoherent government, and the Tories obsessing about europe in opposition give the LDs the best chance to regenerate as the sensible centrist party that the country needs.

Sorry, Doc, I am not sure what you mean by regenerate as a sensible centrist party. Do you mean that it isn't at the moment? What is it for, what does it want, what does it believe in.? OK we know that they like the idea of the EU and that the UK should comply with every idea that comes from Brussels, because then we have influence. What odes the LibDem party have to say to the ordinary people?

Europe is not the main issue to most people. Daily concerns such as taxation, government spending and inflation matter far more to most people, as does the safety net of the welfare state.

I believe that the majority of the British people want a stable growing economy, combined with a stable welfare state that can care for them if they are old or ill. I think that the Tories are sound on the finances, but will trash the welfare state, while Labour will be profligate and imperil the welfare state by crashing the economy.

I recognise that the LibDems will need to retrench and rebuild, but they have done so in the past. The LD polling in 1990 was worse than it is now. I think this is best done on the opposition benches, providing confidence and supply as required. Perhaps the electorate needs to see what the alternative of an unstable minority government is like, in order to see the wisdom of a coalition. The coalition will be far better viewed by the public in 5 years time than it is now.

If you really believe that Europe, or some derivative of, is not the main issue for most people it would explain why the Lib Dems are polling at 9%

Sunil_Prasannan

MarkHopkins said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MarkHopkins said:

SeanT said:

Sean_F said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

MikeK said:

Happy muslims:

#MuslimAwarenessMonth Hey @BarackObama is this what we are supposed to be aware of? pic.twitter.com/lY4kTmy2Mw

— Corporal (@drapermark37) August 2, 2014

Hey, hey, Mike Kay
how many Gazan kids did you kill today?

I think we have had enough of that for one day. Nobody wants to see kids killed, we just vary in how to stop the slaughter, and whether the ability to stop it lies primarily with the Israelis or Hamas.

Israel's true sin is this. They remind Westerners how the sausage is made. Nation-building is not nice, and people get killed along the way. Our killings are safely in the past.

That's the most disgusting remark you have ever made, Sean F.

Here is the "sausage being made".

http://tinyurl.com/o9va7eb

http://tinyurl.com/oapnon9

http://tinyurl.com/omdf2ge

Despicable, heartless, repulsive.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

SeanT. We all agree it's terrible.

Now tell us how Israel stops Hamas firing rockets at their civilians. How they stop an organisation determined to exterminate the Jews, and that doesn't want peace. Please tell us - we all await your amazing skills at solving this seemingly intractable problem.

... your problem as a supporter of Likud's current policy ...

Presuming that is part of the problem. Are you a supporter of the terrorist group Hamas?


Mark! I've already told UKIP's Mike Kay I'm not a Muslim upthread (check). Like most Brits (hopefully), I like to support the underdog.

Now do you really support the current "We Have To Destroy Gaza To Save It" policy? Really?

TheScreamingEagles

Paywall

LABOUR MPs are demanding that Ed Balls be sacked as shadow chancellor to give their party a better chance of winning the next election.

Left-wingers have privately called for Ed Miliband to replace his economics spokesman with Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary, because he looks more “human” than Balls.

Critics of Balls have taken to calling him Gromit in private, the canine sidekick to Wallace, the animated character whom the Labour leader has admitted that he resembles.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/article1442371.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_08_02