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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB July Polling Average: Gravity finally catches up wit

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited August 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The PB July Polling Average: Gravity finally catches up with UKIP

So perhaps UKIP does need the oxygen of publicity after all.  After recording a record score in June, Farage’s party is the biggest loser in July; indeed, the only loser.  That June figure surprised many who thought that the absence from the papers and TV screens of what’s still in many ways a minor party would inevitably lead to a drop in vote share.  It didn’t then but two months after the European…

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    I hope this wasn't written on your honeymoon...
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Business before pleasure ....

    PB before rumpy pumpy .....

    That's duty for you ....

    Must be mad .....
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I did point out some while back that we may well have already seen peak kipper...

    And I am sure Mrs Herdson entered Coalition with David with her eyes open. There will be a quid pro quo, much as Mrs JackW extracts Bond St shopping excursions!

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Great stuff here from Guidos site!

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/01/eds-cousin-miliband-familys-comedy-genius/

    I haven't seen jokes like that for a while, but Dr Keen knows how to tell 'em. I couldn't help laughing.

    I do hope that the twitterarti are not too hard on him, but he seems robust enough judging by his own remarks in the comments, presuming they are genuine.

    Incidentally it looks a good range of owls on the Miliband staircase, not photoshopped in either.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    The PB poll average is maintained by David Herdson who writes the Saturday morning pieces - so please address your remarks to him not me.

    On general point Ukip is going to find it much harder getting public attention. Don't blame me
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Dr Fox, I have to (sadly) report that I’ve seen the one about the male agony aunt before, somewhere on the web. Can’t recall where though. And I’m not going to try googling “16 yr oldf babysitter”.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Kippers on no seats - but they will have done enough to see Ed as PM - job done for Kippers ?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    The PB poll average is maintained by David Herdson who writes the Saturday morning pieces - so please address your remarks to him not me.

    On general point Ukip is going to find it much harder getting public attention. Don't blame me
    I am hoping that the slight drift back to the Lib Dems carries on. It is hard to see how they could go into coalition having been thrashed, so a good performance next year is needed. A very long way back though.
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    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546
    I wonder if the grim international news is a factor? With turmoil in Syria, Israel, Libya, Ukraine and West Africa, the appetite for such a 'Britain First' party may have dimmed, and UKIP seem to have had precious little to say on these big foreign crises, looking lightweight as a result.

    It's also not been the EUs worst month. In agreeing sanctions on Russia, they've come across as more productive than the UN where squabbling superpowers lead to total inertia. Maybe UKiP should suggest we withdraw from the UN and see how that goes?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    The PB poll average is maintained by David Herdson who writes the Saturday morning pieces - so please address your remarks to him not me.

    On general point Ukip is going to find it much harder getting public attention. Don't blame me
    Well I'm certainly not going to badger David on his Honeymoon. No it's your negative tweets I'm thinking of Mike, full of little digs and sly jabs at poor old UKIP even more than is usual for you. Afraid of L/Dem collapse?
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Sieg Heil!

    Let's be fair. They might be saying "He went thataway." pic.twitter.com/420zVdkpDS

    — Pat Condell (@patcondell) August 2, 2014

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    Perhaps come the dead period between Xmas and New Year, OGH could run a comp for Most Small-Minded Post of 2014. One or two on this thread would surely make the cut...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr Fox, I have to (sadly) report that I’ve seen the one about the male agony aunt before, somewhere on the web. Can’t recall where though. And I’m not going to try googling “16 yr oldf babysitter”.

    They would probably go down better at the Wheeltappers social club than a modern comedy audience. In some ways it does show how we have moved on as a society.



  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    I did point out some while back that we may well have already seen peak kipper...

    And I am sure Mrs Herdson entered Coalition with David with her eyes open. There will be a quid pro quo, much as Mrs JackW extracts Bond St shopping excursions!

    As if ....

    You think I have an option on Mrs JackW's trips ....

    She knows where the bodies are buried !!

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    EdM's uncle is recycling Bernard Manning material. Quite funny and slightly sad.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    JackW said:

    I did point out some while back that we may well have already seen peak kipper...

    And I am sure Mrs Herdson entered Coalition with David with her eyes open. There will be a quid pro quo, much as Mrs JackW extracts Bond St shopping excursions!

    As if ....

    You think I have an option on Mrs JackW's trips ....

    She knows where the bodies are buried !!

    I get similar duties at times, but such is the price of coalition.

    It is hard to see why women want so many shoes, when for the same money one could be barefoot in a Ferrari...
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    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html

    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.

    The comments are interesting. The CyberNats can't use most of their usual abuse against one of their own, so the opening salvo is how old the guy is.

    Desperate, desperate stuff
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,308
    Look at that top bar chart. Liberal Democrats winning here!
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html
    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.



    How appropriate, two loons talking tripe
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    Scott_P said:


    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.

    The comments are interesting. The CyberNats can't use most of their usual abuse against one of their own, so the opening salvo is how old the guy is.

    Desperate, desperate stuff
    Up to your usual standard though Scott, just what we expect
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited August 2014

    Great stuff here from Guidos site!

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/01/eds-cousin-miliband-familys-comedy-genius/

    I haven't seen jokes like that for a while, but Dr Keen knows how to tell 'em. I couldn't help laughing.

    I do hope that the twitterarti are not too hard on him, but he seems robust enough judging by his own remarks in the comments, presuming they are genuine.

    Incidentally it looks a good range of owls on the Miliband staircase, not photoshopped in either.

    Be careful what you wish for. Personal attacks against candidates are bad enough but if it is to be open season on uninvolved relatives, who in future will stand?
  • Options

    Great stuff here from Guidos site!

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/01/eds-cousin-miliband-familys-comedy-genius/

    I haven't seen jokes like that for a while, but Dr Keen knows how to tell 'em. I couldn't help laughing.

    I do hope that the twitterarti are not too hard on him, but he seems robust enough judging by his own remarks in the comments, presuming they are genuine.

    Incidentally it looks a good range of owls on the Miliband staircase, not photoshopped in either.

    Be careful what you wish for. Personal abuse against candidates is bad enough but if it is to be open season on uninvolved relatives, who in future will stand?
    There's more than one Tory (or possibly Kipper) Peebie who has made no bones about their desire to use violence against anyone to the left of themselves. And before anyone demands names, let me say it would be quicker to list those who haven't...
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    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html
    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.

    How appropriate, two loons talking tripe

    We'll have to enjoy you while you last. In a few short weeks you'll disappear from PB threads. Forever.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Great stuff here from Guidos site!

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/01/eds-cousin-miliband-familys-comedy-genius/

    I haven't seen jokes like that for a while, but Dr Keen knows how to tell 'em. I couldn't help laughing.

    I do hope that the twitterarti are not too hard on him, but he seems robust enough judging by his own remarks in the comments, presuming they are genuine.

    Incidentally it looks a good range of owls on the Miliband staircase, not photoshopped in either.

    Be careful what you wish for. Personal attacks against candidates are bad enough but if it is to be open season on uninvolved relatives, who in future will stand?
    I did not wish any adverse consequences on Dr Keen, indeed the opposite.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html
    The Nats are leaving the sinking ship.

    How appropriate, two loons talking tripe
    We'll have to enjoy you while you last. In a few short weeks you'll disappear from PB threads. Forever.



    Malc will come back for a bit of pro bono posting.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    I did point out some while back that we may well have already seen peak kipper...

    And I am sure Mrs Herdson entered Coalition with David with her eyes open. There will be a quid pro quo, much as Mrs JackW extracts Bond St shopping excursions!

    As if ....

    You think I have an option on Mrs JackW's trips ....

    She knows where the bodies are buried !!

    I get similar duties at times, but such is the price of coalition.

    It is hard to see why women want so many shoes, when for the same money one could be barefoot in a Ferrari...
    Because my dear old thing they may have both ....

    Although in the day it was Mrs JackW's barefoot in a classic Maserati convertible.

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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Charles said:

    I hope this wasn't written on your honeymoon...

    Nope, we arrived back yesterday after a week on the Yorkshire coast. We're looking at India for our main honeymoon, so August wouldn't be the best time to go (unless to the mountains, but without having checked, I'd imagine they'll be very busy there with domestic custom, never mind international), so we'll go later in the year when it's not quite so hot.

    Usually, when the start of the month coincides with a weekend, I'll write two pieces, the polling average and a general interest one. I'm afraid that this time you'll have to make do with just the one: I haven't been much in touch with events this last week (didn't log on once and now have 219 e-mails!), and wouldn't have had time to write them if I had.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Herders knows how to show a gal a good time ....

    Dodging ferrets, whippets and clogs on cliff edge but with a promise of dysentery in the future in India.

    Welcome back old friend.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    JackW said:

    Herders knows how to show a gal a good time ....

    Dodging ferrets, whippets and clogs on cliff edge but with a promise of dysentery in the future in India.

    Welcome back old friend.

    Boak
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    JackW said:

    Herders knows how to show a gal a good time ....

    Dodging ferrets, whippets and clogs on cliff edge but with a promise of dysentery in the future in India.

    Welcome back old friend.

    And from me, too.

    Of course, Jack, we don't know where the Herdsons did their courting. We'll be straying back towards the Bernard Wossname jokes if we're not careful...

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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    I have read this week Tories are under fire for coastal visits.

    The East Coast of Yorkshire has some stunning places.
    I prefer Robin Hoods Bay in the winter than the busy summer months.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2014
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.
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    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    TAXATION IS THEFT!

    Except, of course, from socialists...

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850
    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    In my experience, HMRC can be brutal about small things (like taxing Chistmas parties) and very lax about big things (eg accepting probate valuations that are way below Market values).
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    Salford and Eccles CLP will select today the replacement for Hazel Blears. AWS, 3 women in the final shortlist (amid some controversies on leaving out a local contender with 4 nominations from ward branches).
    It will likely be a battle between solicitor (she works for Hill Dickinson LLP) Rebecca Long-Baily who was raised in Cheshire and local Cllr Sue Pugh.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    TAXATION IS THEFT!

    Except, of course, from socialists...

    Yes, that right, he thinks that your money, that you earn, is the state's first and yours second.

    http://dizzythinks.net/ed_miliband-its-not-your-money.html
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    Why do you expect an imminent reversal of UKIP's polling decline? There's unlikely to be any significant publicity for the party in the near future, August can usually be written off as un-political with everyone (including journalists and politicians) on holiday, and then it's the conference season, which will be dominated as usual by the main parties (because that's what the media schedule implies).

    The dangers for UKIP as the election nears are that (1) they get written out of the media narrative as conditioning and laziness causes commentators and reporters to revert to the familiar three-party structure they know and are comfortable with, and (2) that the voters turn away from them as the issue of who governs increases in saliency. Both dangers can be countered but they remain very real.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    "EdM's uncle is recycling Bernard Manning material. Quite funny and slightly sad."

    I'd vote for him. The uncle, obviously, not Ed.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    UKIP has proved to be utterly useless. It is now 2 months since everyone voted for them in the Euros, and yet we are still in the EU! Pull your finger out, Farage....
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    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2014
    I know its the Mail but the Heff is claiming a conservative 'accommodation' is still a possibility, with Crosby the driver.

    Make of that what you will
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.''

    To be fair, Guido has plenty of goes at certain tories, too. Yeo/Ruffley to name but two.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Source? Reading his blog (in small doses) I'd have put Guido in the kipper-camp. He doesn't appear to be much of a Dave fan.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    edited August 2014

    Great stuff here from Guidos site!

    http://order-order.com/2014/08/01/eds-cousin-miliband-familys-comedy-genius/

    I haven't seen jokes like that for a while, but Dr Keen knows how to tell 'em. I couldn't help laughing.

    I do hope that the twitterarti are not too hard on him, but he seems robust enough judging by his own remarks in the comments, presuming they are genuine.

    Incidentally it looks a good range of owls on the Miliband staircase, not photoshopped in either.

    Be careful what you wish for. Personal abuse against candidates is bad enough but if it is to be open season on uninvolved relatives, who in future will stand?
    There's more than one Tory (or possibly Kipper) Peebie who has made no bones about their desire to use violence against anyone to the left of themselves. And before anyone demands names, let me say it would be quicker to list those who haven't...
    Fibber.
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    JohnO said:

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Source? Reading his blog (in small doses) I'd have put Guido in the kipper-camp. He doesn't appear to be much of a Dave fan.

    But despite the explicitly networking nature of the evening, Tory organisers took great pains to keep the guest list secret. In a note circulated to helpers, organiser Watson made clear that no press or photographers were allowed inside the building. The only exception was Paul Staines, the political blogger known as Guido Fawkes, who sat at table 18 with Lord Trimble.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/01/tory-bash-city-billionaires-ministers-bubbly-banned

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125


    Why do you expect an imminent reversal of UKIP's polling decline? There's unlikely to be any significant publicity for the party in the near future, August can usually be written off as un-political with everyone (including journalists and politicians) on holiday, and then it's the conference season, which will be dominated as usual by the main parties (because that's what the media schedule implies).

    The dangers for UKIP as the election nears are that (1) they get written out of the media narrative as conditioning and laziness causes commentators and reporters to revert to the familiar three-party structure they know and are comfortable with, and (2) that the voters turn away from them as the issue of who governs increases in saliency. Both dangers can be countered but they remain very real.

    David, MikeK was predicting 39% for UKIP in the Euros, so he has a track record of unrealistically ambitious hopes for them!

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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Oh, and welcome back. I trust you were nearer to Whitby than Withernsea....
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    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    If the Tories don't bring in this terrible plan first, you can bet your last fiver that Labour would.
    Aren't the BBC also after this power too?
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Staines is an equal opportunity dick. He will publish what earns him the most revenue, as politicians of all parties will be targets if he thinks it will earn him cash.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    UKIP just coming off a bit of a June high - however the national picture of 13.6 - if thats what it really is combined with local strength in the East of England makes for a very healthy picture.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    Why do you expect an imminent reversal of UKIP's polling decline? There's unlikely to be any significant publicity for the party in the near future, August can usually be written off as un-political with everyone (including journalists and politicians) on holiday, and then it's the conference season, which will be dominated as usual by the main parties (because that's what the media schedule implies).

    The dangers for UKIP as the election nears are that (1) they get written out of the media narrative as conditioning and laziness causes commentators and reporters to revert to the familiar three-party structure they know and are comfortable with, and (2) that the voters turn away from them as the issue of who governs increases in saliency. Both dangers can be countered but they remain very real.
    I think it's virtually certain that UKIP will poll less than 13% in the election. 9-10% seems most likely to me. The important thing is to concentrate on the handful of winnable seats.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited August 2014

    MikeK said:

    Of course UKIP needs publicity. But it's not quiet in the UKIP fold, organisation is proceeding and more young people are coming over. Expect a reversal of polling action quite soon.

    Message to OGH: You won't be burying UKIP any time soon, despite trying very hard.

    Why do you expect an imminent reversal of UKIP's polling decline? There's unlikely to be any significant publicity for the party in the near future, August can usually be written off as un-political with everyone (including journalists and politicians) on holiday, and then it's the conference season, which will be dominated as usual by the main parties (because that's what the media schedule implies).

    The dangers for UKIP as the election nears are that (1) they get written out of the media narrative as conditioning and laziness causes commentators and reporters to revert to the familiar three-party structure they know and are comfortable with, and (2) that the voters turn away from them as the issue of who governs increases in saliency. Both dangers can be countered but they remain very real.
    I think you'll find that the UKIP September Conference in Doncaster will be a triple (AAA) media event. We have the Youth Conference that starts today:

    Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel · 11m
    As the YI Conference in Birmingham starts today, note that YI membership has risen 40% since March, and now stands at over 2,600. #YIConf14

    We also have good voting percentages in the locals, though certain areas should get their act together (re merthyr tydfil):

    Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel · 2h
    At real polls - at elections - #UKIP consistently outperforms opinion polls.
    22% in contests 24 July (av.)
    22% in contests on 31 July (av.)

    .... and as you say this is the quiet season.
    The media may try to dismiss UKIP as irrelevant, the Lab/Lib/ Cons will do their best to pretend UKIP doesn't exist: UKIP will prove them and you wrong.

    How's married life treating you? I wish you and your spouse well.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053


    Why do you expect an imminent reversal of UKIP's polling decline? There's unlikely to be any significant publicity for the party in the near future, August can usually be written off as un-political with everyone (including journalists and politicians) on holiday, and then it's the conference season, which will be dominated as usual by the main parties (because that's what the media schedule implies).

    The dangers for UKIP as the election nears are that (1) they get written out of the media narrative as conditioning and laziness causes commentators and reporters to revert to the familiar three-party structure they know and are comfortable with, and (2) that the voters turn away from them as the issue of who governs increases in saliency. Both dangers can be countered but they remain very real.

    David, MikeK was predicting 39% for UKIP in the Euros, so he has a track record of unrealistically ambitious hopes for them!

    @MarqueeMark
    Just a bit over enthusiastic, and my ambitions for UKIP are still sky high. Hold on to your seat Mark, the times they are a changing.

    By the way, is it true that Cameron wants to start a war with Russia because he's bored with the summer hols?
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    Question for those that know a lot more than me. There is a widely touted image that all the media outlets have captioned "Palestinians inspect an unexploded Israeli shell on a road in Gaza"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28617909

    Is that true? Looks like an absolutely enormous shell, and way bigger than the pictures relating to Israelis loading shells.

    However, what does match, the head of a M302 long range missile, which the Palestinians have.

    http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iran-missile.png

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    JohnO said:

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Source? Reading his blog (in small doses) I'd have put Guido in the kipper-camp. He doesn't appear to be much of a Dave fan.

    But despite the explicitly networking nature of the evening, Tory organisers took great pains to keep the guest list secret. In a note circulated to helpers, organiser Watson made clear that no press or photographers were allowed inside the building. The only exception was Paul Staines, the political blogger known as Guido Fawkes, who sat at table 18 with Lord Trimble.
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/01/tory-bash-city-billionaires-ministers-bubbly-banned
    This event was a year ago.... "2013 fundraising ball"
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Good morning, everyone.

    Got my first new glasses for several years. Taking some getting used to.

    Glad not to be Russia again in Diplomacy. Not that I dislike Russia, but it's nice to have a change.
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    Lib Dems gaining 1 point will be a boost for them.
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    saddened said:

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Staines is an equal opportunity dick. He will publish what earns him the most revenue, as politicians of all parties will be targets if he thinks it will earn him cash.
    £50 to get an inside look at who all the large supporters of the Conservatives are and who talks to who is a cheap price.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited August 2014
    By the way, is it true that Cameron wants to start a war with Russia because he's bored with the summer hols?

    Must be difficult though Mike, being the object of the ultimate paradox. The better UKIP does, the further away its objective.

    A strong showing next year would be bitter sweet, even for you.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Thought the cat had bought in another rat in the night... but on closer inspection it was a mole !

    Bigger than I remember them.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    If the Tories don't bring in this terrible plan first, you can bet your last fiver that Labour would.
    Aren't the BBC also after this power too?
    Things like this prove that I was right to leave the Conservative Party.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Good morning, everyone.

    Got my first new glasses for several years. Taking some getting used to.

    Glad not to be Russia again in Diplomacy. Not that I dislike Russia, but it's nice to have a change.

    I used to enjoy Diplomacy, but couldn't begin to devote enough time to it now. It really is the game of thrones. To win, you need to combine excellent interpersonal skills with the morals of a sociopath.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited August 2014
    "is it true that Cameron wants to start a war with Russia because he's bored with the summer hols?"

    Cameron's speech to the NATO conference yesterday made me smile. There he was telling everyone that they must spend more on defence and improve capabilities. Coming from a man who is responsible for massive cuts in our own defence budget and who has removed great chunks of our own capabilities it showed a level of bare-faced cheek that really is quite remarkable.

    I wonder if any of the delegates that had to sit through his lecturing asked him about his own governments refusal this very week to guarantee that it would meet the spending targets he was demanding of them.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. F, ah. This may explain why I'm not tremendously good at it.

    Mr. Llama, I must concur on Defence.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Mr. F, ah. This may explain why I'm not tremendously good at it [Diplomacy]."

    Says the man who chalked up a solo win on his second game. Sheeeesh.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Good morning, everyone.

    Got my first new glasses for several years. Taking some getting used to.

    Glad not to be Russia again in Diplomacy. Not that I dislike Russia, but it's nice to have a change.

    As a pro EU PBer, I am glad to have Berlin under my control! and no Balkan entanglements...
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    Sean_F said:

    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    If the Tories don't bring in this terrible plan first, you can bet your last fiver that Labour would.
    Aren't the BBC also after this power too?
    Things like this prove that I was right to leave the Conservative Party.
    Yes, it is depressing how the Tories have taken the big state authoritarian approach.
    A far cry from rolling back the frontiers of the state under Maggie.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Llama, it was a little bit fortunate.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    "Mr. F, ah. This may explain why I'm not tremendously good at it [Diplomacy]."

    Says the man who chalked up a solo win on his second game. Sheeeesh.

    Running England this time, what more could a PBer want?
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    EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Paul Staines is no nearer to the Tories than Alistair Darling is or indeed OGH is to the SNP/Labour. Those who derive their living from the Westminster village at times go into the part occupied by their political opponents or others they would not necessarily ply their trade to, in order to achieve a purpose. Staines, like the former News of the Screws journos goes where stories take him. Evidence his relentless pursuit in recent weeks of David Ruffley before the mainstream media were reporting problems for the Bury St Edmunds MP
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003

    "is it true that Cameron wants to start a war with Russia because he's bored with the summer hols?"

    Cameron's speech to the NATO conference yesterday made me smile. There he was telling everyone that they must spend more on defence and improve capabilities. Coming from a man who is responsible for massive cuts in our own defence budget and who has removed great chunks of our own capabilities it showed a level of bare-faced cheek that really is quite remarkable.

    I wonder if any of the delegates that had to sit through his lecturing asked him about his own governments refusal this very week to guarantee that it would meet the spending targets he was demanding of them.

    Mt Llama, surely Cameron’s international speeches are not made to be listened or even attended to by those in the audience, but to ensure an appreciative sound-bite or two in the supportive London newspapers.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    "is it true that Cameron wants to start a war with Russia because he's bored with the summer hols?"

    Cameron's speech to the NATO conference yesterday made me smile. There he was telling everyone that they must spend more on defence and improve capabilities. Coming from a man who is responsible for massive cuts in our own defence budget and who has removed great chunks of our own capabilities it showed a level of bare-faced cheek that really is quite remarkable.

    I wonder if any of the delegates that had to sit through his lecturing asked him about his own governments refusal this very week to guarantee that it would meet the spending targets he was demanding of them.

    Mt Llama, surely Cameron’s international speeches are not made to be listened or even attended to by those in the audience, but to ensure an appreciative sound-bite or two in the supportive London newspapers.
    The purpose of such conferences is mostly to provide shopping opportunities.

    The view of most NATO members seems to be that the USA will always do their fighting for them.

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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    If the Tories don't bring in this terrible plan first, you can bet your last fiver that Labour would.
    Aren't the BBC also after this power too?
    Except that Labour did not bring it in.

    Janet Daley suggested the Treasury had slipped it in while George Osborne was distracted. He has form for this. Damian McBride reported that much of Osborne's omnishambles budget consisted of Treasury wishlist items that Gordon Brown had annually rejected.
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    taffys said:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713825/Taxman-loses-nine-ten-appeals-Watchdog-slams-HMRC-s-handling-complaints.html

    Revelant to a debate we had on here recently about (tory!!) plans to give those nice people at HMRC the power to plunder our accounts.

    Many of the victims were poor pensioners.

    If the Tories don't bring in this terrible plan first, you can bet your last fiver that Labour would.
    Aren't the BBC also after this power too?
    Except that Labour did not bring it in.

    Janet Daley suggested the Treasury had slipped it in while George Osborne was distracted. He has form for this. Damian McBride reported that much of Osborne's omnishambles budget consisted of Treasury wishlist items that Gordon Brown had annually rejected.
    Except that I didn't say Labour did.

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    WitanWitan Posts: 26
    DecrepitJohnL
    "items that Gordon Brown had annually rejected. "

    Ah yes, that great defender of individual liberty and protecter of the private citizen's purse and pension. I remember the man well.

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    Edin_RokzEdin_Rokz Posts: 516
    MalcomG Said

    what a plonker, you a stand up at the fringe.

    Wish I still was, you would be such an easy target for jokes!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    Witan said:

    DecrepitJohnL

    "items that Gordon Brown had annually rejected. "

    Ah yes, that great defender of individual liberty and protecter of the private citizen's purse and pension. I remember the man well.



    To be fair, it does suggest that if he hadn’t been paying attention things could have been (even?) worse!
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    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Paul Staines is no nearer to the Tories than Alistair Darling is or indeed OGH is to the SNP/Labour. Those who derive their living from the Westminster village at times go into the part occupied by their political opponents or others they would not necessarily ply their trade to, in order to achieve a purpose. Staines, like the former News of the Screws journos goes where stories take him. Evidence his relentless pursuit in recent weeks of David Ruffley before the mainstream media were reporting problems for the Bury St Edmunds MP.

    I am not sure that Alastair Darling turns up at Tory fundraising events and is the only journalist/blogger permitted to attend.

    As I said, the Tories have been smart to outsource to Guido. It means they do not control the output, but it does make it more likely to be picked up - a few negative stories are worth the endless stream of anti-Labour, EdM and LD stuff that Guido runs. It was not a smart move to have Staines attend an official function though.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html

    Looks like it's all going down the tube's for the SNP?

    I think I might give PB and other news blogs a miss on the day after the referendum - They'll be some VERY grumpy Nat's around I fear. :(

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Now that we know Paul Staines is so closely connected to the Tories that he attends their fundraising dinners it does put a new light on the Guido site. It was always very clever for the Tories to outsource their smearing. But maybe not so clever to have the smearer attend official events.

    Paul Staines is no nearer to the Tories than Alistair Darling is or indeed OGH is to the SNP/Labour. Those who derive their living from the Westminster village at times go into the part occupied by their political opponents or others they would not necessarily ply their trade to, in order to achieve a purpose. Staines, like the former News of the Screws journos goes where stories take him. Evidence his relentless pursuit in recent weeks of David Ruffley before the mainstream media were reporting problems for the Bury St Edmunds MP.

    I am not sure that Alastair Darling turns up at Tory fundraising events and is the only journalist/blogger permitted to attend.

    As I said, the Tories have been smart to outsource to Guido. It means they do not control the output, but it does make it more likely to be picked up - a few negative stories are worth the endless stream of anti-Labour, EdM and LD stuff that Guido runs. It was not a smart move to have Staines attend an official function though.

    Guido can be amusing (though often just puerile) but is definitely on the tory-kipper cusp. For all his faults the order-order blog is widely read. In the 2015 election, bloggers and social media maybe as influential as the dead tree press, possibly more so.

    I suspect he was there to gather stories, but to also to be won over to the blue rather than purple side of the border. It is not good to collect too many enemies when planning a campaign.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Foxinsox, whereabouts are those cannons in your new avatar?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Mr. Foxinsox, whereabouts are those cannons in your new avatar?

    Valletta Harbour, near the Lascaris war rooms in Malta, the gun is fired at noon by an artilleryman in pith helmet. I took it on my summer holiday. Malta is lovely, with so much interesting history, though foxinsoxjr was not keen on looking at neolithic remains in 40 degree heat, but rather fancied the pool instead. Strange choice, as I am sure you would agree!
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Foxinsox, I quite agree.

    Malta does indeed have interesting history. Random fact: Lascaris is the name of the one of the gods in my work-in-progress, and the Knights Lascarian play a role (particularly early on).
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130


    I am not sure that Alastair Darling turns up at Tory fundraising events

    As the political head of Bettertogether, just Tory funded ones.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    Question for those that know a lot more than me. There is a widely touted image that all the media outlets have captioned "Palestinians inspect an unexploded Israeli shell on a road in Gaza"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28617909

    Is that true? Looks like an absolutely enormous shell, and way bigger than the pictures relating to Israelis loading shells.

    However, what does match, the head of a M302 long range missile, which the Palestinians have.

    http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iran-missile.png

    Dunno about that. Israel also has missiles.

    One thing is for sure, we we know that THIS is probably a bit of Israeli ordnance

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11005305/Gaza-men-watch-as-smart-bomb-blows-up-building.html


    And this:

    http://tinyurl.com/o5vruxl
    Nice bit of precision, being accurately aimed at a bunker and with forewarning according to the accompanying article. If only the rogue terrorist organisation Hamas took an equal amount of care.

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Question for those that know a lot more than me. There is a widely touted image that all the media outlets have captioned "Palestinians inspect an unexploded Israeli shell on a road in Gaza"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28617909

    Is that true? Looks like an absolutely enormous shell, and way bigger than the pictures relating to Israelis loading shells.

    However, what does match, the head of a M302 long range missile, which the Palestinians have.

    http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/iran-missile.png

    Dunno about that. Israel also has missiles.

    One thing is for sure, we we know that THIS is probably a bit of Israeli ordnance

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11005305/Gaza-men-watch-as-smart-bomb-blows-up-building.html


    And this:

    http://tinyurl.com/o5vruxl
    Nice bit of precision, being accurately aimed at a bunker and with forewarning according to the accompanying article. If only the rogue terrorist organisation Hamas took an equal amount of care.

    Yeah, they are so precise, the Israelis.

    They managed to hit a one year old toddler from a range of 30 miles.

    http://tinyurl.com/qjt5qyx

    Incredible precision.
    War is sad. Hamas broke the ceasefire according to the UN, perhaps they should have kept it.


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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,003
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership.

    Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, told the Telegraph he has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK.

    Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work.

    In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11007139/Former-SNP-Lord-Provost-urges-Alex-Salmond-to-halt-independence-drive.html
    Looks like it's all going down the tube's for the SNP?

    I think I might give PB and other news blogs a miss on the day after the referendum - They'll be some VERY grumpy Nat's around I fear. :(



    As someone posted (more or less) the other day, in the event of a solid NO it will not be difficult to differentiate between malcolmg and a ray of sunshine.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Valletta Harbour, near the Lascaris war rooms in Malta, the gun is fired at noon"

    Golly, the noon-day gun! In Malta, an independent country. What was that about British influence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcBr3rosvNQ
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    There is a war on.. and you let the kids go play on the beach..makes sense..only to an idiot
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,130
    GIN1138 said:


    grumpy Nat's

    Are you a greengrocer?


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    ISTVR that the Brits had been trialling use of a concrete bomb for use in urban areas. Do the Israelis have these in their arsenal?
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    There is a war on.. and you let the kids go play on the beach..makes sense..only to an idiot

    Time for The Israeli PM to face a war crimes trial - in absentia if he is too frit to turn up and defend himself .
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    Time for The Israeli PM to face a war crimes trial - in absentia if he is too frit to turn up and defend himself .

    Israel, like the United States of America, has wisely decided not to ratify the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    SeanT said:

    There is a war on.. and you let the kids go play on the beach..makes sense..only to an idiot

    You think all the 300 kids butchered by Israel in Gaza were "playing on the beach"? Or is it the case that the vast majority were sheltering in UNWRA schools, or their own homes. and still got turned into cat-food?

    Who is the idiot here?

    OK, last comment for today. We all remember the "Is Genocide Permissible" op-ed in the Times of Israel yesterday (hastily withdrawn) which advocated the extermination of Gazans.

    Now the Jerusalem Post has joined in. The most important English language paper in the country. Under the headline Why Gaza Must Go the author (a senior Israeli defence analyst) decides that it is time to completely "dismantle Gaza", kill anyone who resists, and then "relocate the non-belligerent Gazans" out of the country altogether - i.e. ethnically cleanse the Strip once and for all, ridding it of Arabs.

    He does not suggest where the Gazans might go, perhaps the sea?


    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Into-the-fray-Why-Gaza-must-go-368862

    Israel is descending into psychosis. The spectacle is compelling but horrific.

    Shalom.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Yep the Israelis could open their own versions of Belsen and Auschwitz .
This discussion has been closed.