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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories drop to their lowest point ever in a ComRes phon

SystemSystem Posts: 11,687
edited July 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories drop to their lowest point ever in a ComRes phone poll in tonight’s survey for the Indy

For whatever reason see section the regular phone polls are tending to produce more extreme figures than online firms and so it is with tonight’s ComRes phone poll for the Independent. The Tory share is down to 27% with Ukip dropping only a point to 17%.

Read the full story here


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited July 2014
    It's outlier Monday
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    #CrossOverMonday had turned into #DownThePanMonday
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Massive Con to Green swing.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    It's cheating Monday for TSE ....

    Again ....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    edited July 2014
    As Mike keeps on telling me, focus on the share of the vote, not the lead.

    Now which is the outlier in terms of Tory share of the vote from the four polls today?

    27, 33, 32, 33
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    And you guys thought my "Swingback to......Labour" was a joke ?
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    Ed Milliband on course to be PM....
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    There's many more of us Tory to UKIP switchers than the polls have up until now been picking up!
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    Tonights COMRES LAB 359 CON 229 LD 33

    Ed is crap is landslide PM
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    HughHugh Posts: 955
    Ashcroft: Ed Miliband Prime Minister, Majority 24

    Populus: Ed Miliband Prime Minister, Majority 46

    YouGov: Ed Miliband Prime Minister, Majority 78

    ComRed: Ed Miliband Prime Minister, Majority 74

    282 days to General Election.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    What was all the bloody fuss about. Situation normal.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    GIN1138 said:

    #CrossOverMonday had turned into #DownThePanMonday

    It's all your fault!
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    The Greens are becoming an headache !
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Kippers4Ed and Con down 4% - country swung left over weekend...
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    corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    As Mike keeps on telling me, focus on the share of the vote, not the lead.

    Now which is the outlier in terms of Tory share of the vote from the four polls today?

    27, 33, 32, 33

    32. It's the only even one.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    Tonights YG LAB 364 CON 243 LD 18

    Ed is crap is landslide PM
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    Oh well, it looks like any crossover's on the back burner for the foreseeable and it's as you were with Stephen Fisher's Friday projection.

    But what about JackW's ARSE tomorrow?
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    There's one great thing about Georgia politics - not a whiff of nepotism.

    For the US Senate seat, Perdue (related to former gov) beating Nunn (related to former US Senator) 46% - 40%

    For governor Carter, (related to former GA gov and Potus) over Deal (related to ga gov) 45%-44%.

    I don't miss nepotism at all.

    (both polls Rasmussen)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    For the purposes of comparison, the Tories had an 18% lead with ComRes in July 2009.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    60% for the top two. Isn't that tiny!

    This is dire Tory and LibDem and no more than moderate Lab, reasonable to good UKIP and Green.
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    HughHugh Posts: 955
    FPT TSE One of the perks of being PB's occasional guest editor.

    Blimey. Who gives you access to this embargoed data, Mike or the data owners?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    As Mike keeps on telling me, focus on the share of the vote, not the lead.

    Now which is the outlier in terms of Tory share of the vote from the four polls today?

    27, 33, 32, 33

    33,32,33 ?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    murali_s said:

    Ed Milliband on course to be PM....

    Only if the poll is this Thursday.

    Chortle .....

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    Quite surprised. I thought the 1-point YG was an outlier, but hadn't noticed any particular Labour surge either. I'm sticking to the 3-4 lead theory.

    But not worried by the Ed figures. The Ed vs Dave presentation effectively lumps all the "both" or "neither" into the Dave camp, and 41% not deterred by the media savaging is actually quite a decent figure. I wonder if the Tories and their press friends aren't putting too much money on that strategy.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,481
    The other amusing thing I found out today, in July 2009, there were only 8 Westminster VI polls.

    Alone today, we've had 4!
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    manofkent2014manofkent2014 Posts: 1,543
    If the Greens achieve crossover with the Libdems it won't just be UKIP demanding equal exposure come the election campaign and with two parties in front of the Libdems (even if sporadically) it would be difficult to defend the status quo.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    A GE with Con + Lab picking up just 60% with 40% non-aligned with the big 2 would be fun! And an utter nightmare to call so many 3 way / 4 ways races.

    I still think when it comes to it, there will be reduced Con to UKIP, Labour to UKIP swing in the 80-100 marginals where the election will be fought, but some random Redcar results outside the 80-100 ground war battle. I also expect that the Labour doing better in urban seats, Tories doing better in rural seats meme from 2010 to continue as well.

    I would like to see some polls that have a stab at the predicted turnout, as this will be a critical thing to watch with regard to the segment of the electorate that hasn't voted for years and now finds an outlet with UKIP, to get a handle on their potential support.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    Interesting to see if Prof Fisher projection on Friday swings closer to ARSE or BJESUS
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Oh well, it looks like any crossover's on the back burner for the foreseeable and it's as you were with Stephen Fisher's Friday projection.

    But what about JackW's ARSE tomorrow?

    It's a McARSE tomorrow morning.

    The ARSE is normally every Tuesday fortnight. So a week tomorrow.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Labour landslide - so why the implosion ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2708868/Ed-Miliband-extraordinary-attack-Gordon-Brown-s-key-aide-warns-Labour-election-plan-totally-dysfunctional.html


    'No clear idea' and a 'steaming pile of fudge': Ed Miliband under extraordinary attack from Gordon Brown's key aide who warns Labour election plan is 'totally dysfunctional'
    Labour leader failing to communicate with voters, Damian McBride claims
    Former spin doctor says Mr Miliband has no persuasive policies
    Also attacked Labour's refusal to apologise for its record in office
    Today's attack comes in updated version of McBride's tell-all memoirs
    He was spin doctor for Gordon Brown but quit over a plot to smear Tories


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    HughHugh Posts: 955

    Interesting to see if Prof Fisher projection on Friday swings closer to ARSE or BJESUS

    RodCrosby will be running his billionth simulation as we speak, chance of a Tory Majority 188%, chance of a Labour Government, button moon.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    @jameschappers: McBride: Ed M blends 'worst of Blair’s “me against the world” isolation with worst of Gordon Brown’s “they’re out to get me” paranoia’
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    edited July 2014

    Interesting to see if Prof Fisher projection on Friday swings closer to ARSE or BJESUS

    There is also the MEF (Murali Election Forecast) which had the following from early July,
    C 298, L 295, LD 29, UKIP 0
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TGOHF said:

    Labour landslide - so why the implosion ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2708868/Ed-Miliband-extraordinary-attack-Gordon-Brown-s-key-aide-warns-Labour-election-plan-totally-dysfunctional.html

    'No clear idea' and a 'steaming pile of fudge': Ed Miliband under extraordinary attack from Gordon Brown's key aide who warns Labour election plan is 'totally dysfunctional'
    Labour leader failing to communicate with voters, Damian McBride claims
    Former spin doctor says Mr Miliband has no persuasive policies
    Also attacked Labour's refusal to apologise for its record in office
    Today's attack comes in updated version of McBride's tell-all memoirs
    He was spin doctor for Gordon Brown but quit over a plot to smear Tories

    Answer might just be in your second to last point. It appears someone has a book to flog.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited July 2014
    JackW said:

    Oh well, it looks like any crossover's on the back burner for the foreseeable and it's as you were with Stephen Fisher's Friday projection.

    But what about JackW's ARSE tomorrow?

    It's a McARSE tomorrow morning.

    The ARSE is normally every Tuesday fortnight. So a week tomorrow.

    It don't mean a thing Jack, if you ain't got that swingback.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2014
    I see we have BBC doing their soft soap on a criminal.

    Paul Flowers, ahhhh wasn't he hard done by, by the nasty Mail. Now we have arhhh poor Tulisa, hard done by, by the nasty Sun.

    Don't mention she has just been done for assault or the strange tale involved her friend admitting to supply.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Tim_B said:

    There's one great thing about Georgia politics - not a whiff of nepotism.

    For the US Senate seat, Perdue (related to former gov) beating Nunn (related to former US Senator) 46% - 40%

    For governor Carter, (related to former GA gov and Potus) over Deal (related to ga gov) 45%-44%.

    I don't miss nepotism at all.

    (both polls Rasmussen)

    In one of the more peculiar Georgia political obscurities see how Georgia once had three men all claiming to be the legitimate governor: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Governors_Controversy

    See how Herman Talmadge got elected! It makes hanging chads seem positively democratic.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?
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    HughHugh Posts: 955
    Thought the Swingback Fairies were supposed to be riding to the Tory rescue by now, PBTories have been assuring us of its inevitability for ages.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Jonathan said:

    It don't mean a thing JackW, if you ain't got that swingback.

    JackW said:

    Oh well, it looks like any crossover's on the back burner for the foreseeable and it's as you were with Stephen Fisher's Friday projection.

    But what about JackW's ARSE tomorrow?

    It's a McARSE tomorrow morning.

    The ARSE is normally every Tuesday fortnight. So a week tomorrow.

    It don't mean a thing Jack, if you ain't got that swingback.
    Which might be of immense relevance save for the fact that the ARSE projection has not the slightest reference to swingback.

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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Labour landslide - so why the implosion ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2708868/Ed-Miliband-extraordinary-attack-Gordon-Brown-s-key-aide-warns-Labour-election-plan-totally-dysfunctional.html

    'No clear idea' and a 'steaming pile of fudge': Ed Miliband under extraordinary attack from Gordon Brown's key aide who warns Labour election plan is 'totally dysfunctional'
    Labour leader failing to communicate with voters, Damian McBride claims
    Former spin doctor says Mr Miliband has no persuasive policies
    Also attacked Labour's refusal to apologise for its record in office
    Today's attack comes in updated version of McBride's tell-all memoirs
    He was spin doctor for Gordon Brown but quit over a plot to smear Tories

    Answer might just be in your second to last point. It appears someone has a book to flog.
    Looking forward to McBride's book.....and presumably its going to come out on the eve of the Labour conference?!!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    edited July 2014
    I might be looking for an excuse to move to Labour around February next year.

    Anybody think of a plausible excuse for the about-turn?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Tuesday's Telegraph front page - "Cameron's immigration crackdown"

    Anybody believe him?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

  • Options

    As Mike keeps on telling me, focus on the share of the vote, not the lead.

    Now which is the outlier in terms of Tory share of the vote from the four polls today?

    27, 33, 32, 33

    Hmm .... interesting and what pray has been UKIP's share of the vote in today's four polls.

    Spot the correlation, it's not too difficult!

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited July 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Labour landslide - so why the implosion ?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2708868/Ed-Miliband-extraordinary-attack-Gordon-Brown-s-key-aide-warns-Labour-election-plan-totally-dysfunctional.html


    'No clear idea' and a 'steaming pile of fudge': Ed Miliband under extraordinary attack from Gordon Brown's key aide who warns Labour election plan is 'totally dysfunctional'
    Labour leader failing to communicate with voters, Damian McBride claims
    Former spin doctor says Mr Miliband has no persuasive policies
    Also attacked Labour's refusal to apologise for its record in office
    Today's attack comes in updated version of McBride's tell-all memoirs
    He was spin doctor for Gordon Brown but quit over a plot to smear Tories


    That's not an implosion, it's somebody trying to sell a book.
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    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    The most pertinent part of this post "Mr McBride concludes"
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF
    When did you become a McBride fan? I thought you had a very low opinion of him?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    GIN1138 said:

    I might be looking for an excuse to move to Labour around February next year.

    Anybody think of a plausible excuse for the about-turn?

    Mental incapacity.

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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    So, the ComRes marginals thingy. Are we getting it?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    McPoison certainly knows how to sell a book. All the hype and the headlines the first time around, and it carefully didn't say too much at all.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    McPoison certainly knows how to sell a book, which first time around didn't really tell us much at all.
    Maybe he's getting help from Hillary Clinton, whose recent volume didn't sell at all well, and had some large gaps also.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Quite surprised. I thought the 1-point YG was an outlier, but hadn't noticed any particular Labour surge either. I'm sticking to the 3-4 lead theory.

    But not worried by the Ed figures. The Ed vs Dave presentation effectively lumps all the "both" or "neither" into the Dave camp, and 41% not deterred by the media savaging is actually quite a decent figure. I wonder if the Tories and their press friends aren't putting too much money on that strategy.

    Ye if you look at the polls through the prism of a Labour 3.5% lead they make sense - all of them.
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    GIN1138 said:

    I might be looking for an excuse to move to Labour around February next year.

    Anybody think of a plausible excuse for the about-turn?

    Apostrophe overkill?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Tuesday's Telegraph front page - "Cameron's immigration crackdown"

    Anybody believe him?

    Is that a reprint ?
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,822
    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I might be looking for an excuse to move to Labour around February next year.

    Anybody think of a plausible excuse for the about-turn?

    Mental incapacity.

    Temporary bout of madness lasting from February to May 7th is a possibility...

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    I'm still astounded at how little attention this got last week:

    http://www.acting-man.com/?p=32035
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @TGOHF
    When did you become a McBride fan? I thought you had a very low opinion of him?

    He's an idiot but understands winning and Labour.

    A few jibes at the messenger but not one reply saying he is wrong - "got a book to sell - polls polls polls"
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @surbiton
    How is his last "crackdown" going?
    Someone posited he had missed his target by......Well, a lot to be honest.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2014
    GIN1138 said:

    JackW said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I might be looking for an excuse to move to Labour around February next year.

    Anybody think of a plausible excuse for the about-turn?

    Mental incapacity.

    Temporary bout of madness lasting from February to May 7th is a possibility...

    I think you'll find it's infectious from YESNP after 18th September and then from Labour PBers from next Spring.

    The antidote is another period of Coalition government with the fever breaking as Ed resigns as LotO to spend more time with his bacon sarnies.

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    HughHugh Posts: 955

    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
    Agreed.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
    Luckily not many people agreed with you.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,344
    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Mr Miliband is odds on to be the next PM. The Labour leader whom Mr McBride advised seemed less successful. Curious, isn't it? Perhaps there's something to be said for the milder approach.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28528285

    So, what are UKIP's chances here ?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
    It's started early ....

    We need to quarantine Japan ....

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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    "Student loans overhaul planned by ministers"
    Really? *chortle* *titter* and "LOL"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28528824
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    HughHugh Posts: 955

    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Mr Miliband is odds on to be the next PM. The Labour leader whom Mr McBride advised seemed less successful. Curious, isn't it? Perhaps there's something to be said for the milder approach.

    It is widely agreed that Ed Miliband is a genuinely good bloke.

    Even his new-found PBTory fans wouldn't say the same about McBride.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Mr Miliband is odds on to be the next PM. The Labour leader whom Mr McBride advised seemed less successful. Curious, isn't it? Perhaps there's something to be said for the milder approach.

    Gordon Brown was 'nailed on' to win the 2007 election, and in my view could have won a majority early in 2009, if he'd gone to the country on 'a saviour of the world' platform and a vaguely honest account of the public finances rather than peddling his 'Labour investment vs Tory cuts' nonsense, which fooled no-one.

    Why didn't he? I'm baffled, it seems so obvious.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    You dont have to be a Labour supporter to disagree with the type of politics Damien McBride goes in for.

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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Mr Miliband is odds on to be the next PM. The Labour leader whom Mr McBride advised seemed less successful. Curious, isn't it? Perhaps there's something to be said for the milder approach.

    A policy free reply.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Mr Miliband is odds on to be the next PM. The Labour leader whom Mr McBride advised seemed less successful. Curious, isn't it? Perhaps there's something to be said for the milder approach.

    You're a half decent fellow Nick .... otherwise we might advise the Chinese authorities to roll out a padded jacket for you at customs.

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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    On the polls: Relax. Nothing is happening. Nothing will happen until IndyRef and then the Conference season, but that period is likely to be be volatile. The time to start looking at the polls is late October onwards.
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    HughHugh Posts: 955

    On the polls: Relax. Nothing is happening. Nothing will happen until IndyRef and then the Conference season, but that period is likely to be be volatile. The time to start looking at the polls is late October onwards.

    Your very last hope is a Kinnockised assault on Ed from your media arm isn't it?

    A long shot.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    TGOHF said:

    Can any LandslideLabour types disagree with McBride ?

    Mr McBride concludes: ‘Labour currently has no clear idea who its target audience is, no positive messages to communicate to anyone about why they should vote for the party, no policies which will persuade them, and is being run in a totally dysfunctional way.’

    Yes, the messenger may be vile, but the message is unarguably correct.
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    On the polls: Relax. Nothing is happening. Nothing will happen until IndyRef and then the Conference season, but that period is likely to be be volatile. The time to start looking at the polls is late October onwards.

    That's all well and good, but I'm waiting to collect on my 9/2 YouGov crossover bet with PP !
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    hunchman said:
    No. Another piece of GE2015 analysis that ignores the key fact - the scale of 2010 LD switching which is staying constant. If LAB tries to appease the potential switchers to UKIP then it risks alienating what is now part of its core vote - the switchers.



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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Seems that some genius "borked" the estimates for the student loans book? I do hope whoever it was, wasn't counting on spending the twelve billion they estimated for selling it off, for anything important.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    JackW said:

    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
    It's started early ....

    We need to quarantine Japan ....

    OK, you win, he was a great chancellor too.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2014
    I was just sent this on Facebook -

    image
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Looks like Ed's disastrous 'I'm unelectable' speech has not done much damage. Must be embarrassing for Hodges and his PB parrots!
    Don't worry, at least there will be plenty more opportunities to laugh at his geeky grin, on the steps of Number Ten and from the Despatch Box.
    You can tweet about it while he abolishes the bedroom tax with help from his Chancellor Vince Cable
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Hugh said:

    Your very last hope is a Kinnockised assault on Ed from your media arm isn't it?

    A long shot.

    My very good hope is that voters will look at the choice available to them.

    No guarantees, of course. I don't entirely share Jack W's faith that voters are rational.. Sometimes they are bonkers.

    But it's a democracy. If people want to vote for a PM who will undoubtedly be worse even than Brown (and that is saying something), fair enough. They'll regret it of course, and very quickly.

    At least Brown had some sane minders who could rein him in. Who will play the Peter Mandelson and Alastair Darling role in a putative Miliband government? Lord Adonis is sensible enough, to be sure, but I don't think will have the clout. Ed Balls is, well, Ed Balls.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    On the polls: Relax. Nothing is happening. Nothing will happen until IndyRef and then the Conference season, but that period is likely to be be volatile. The time to start looking at the polls is late October onwards.

    That's all well and good, but I'm waiting to collect on my 9/2 YouGov crossover bet with PP !
    Don't worry, it should come good.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2014

    JackW said:

    Tim_B said:

    I remember reading that Gordon Brown was Britain's greatest post-war chancellor - or did I dream it?

    Not sure where you read that. He wasn't very good as chancellor, IMHO. He was the best post-war Prime Minister though.
    It's started early ....

    We need to quarantine Japan ....

    OK, you win, he was a great chancellor too.
    I blame Nick Palmer for your sad condition as he's invaded the Far East.

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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    hunchman said:
    No. Another piece of GE2015 analysis that ignores the key fact - the scale of 2010 LD switching which is staying constant. If LAB tries to appease the potential switchers to UKIP then it risks alienating what is now part of its core vote - the switchers.



    I respectfully disagree OGH. Like you say the LibDem to Labour switchers are nailed on. They're not going anywhere after the Clegg betrayals. Miliband can safely go after the UKIP past Labour vote as the former LibDem voters have got nowhere else to go to. He's in a stronger position there than the Labour high command realise. But that won't happen, because the Islington set and their social values are a million miles removed from the likes of the ordinary people of Doncaster.

    Doncaster North won't matter, leaders always poll above their pure party rating as the electorate like voting for leaders, its Doncaster Central and all the similar demographic seats eg Wakefield, Penistone and Stocksbridge etc where it could potentially matter. Those types of seats were where the Tories did best in 2010, and it wasn't as though the Tories put in above extra effort there. After all Cameron's whole strategy was on appeasing / neutralising the Polly Toynbee's of this world and the Islington set, such was his lack of understanding of reality on the ground.
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    HughHugh Posts: 955

    Hugh said:

    Your very last hope is a Kinnockised assault on Ed from your media arm isn't it?

    A long shot.

    My very good hope is that voters will look at the choice available to them.

    No guarantees, of course. I don't entirely share Jack W's faith that voters are rational.. Sometimes they are bonkers.

    But it's a democracy. If people want to vote for a PM who will undoubtedly be worse even than Brown (and that is saying something), fair enough. They'll regret it of course, and very quickly.

    At least Brown had some sane minders who could rein him in. Who will play the Peter Mandelson and Alastair Darling role in a putative Miliband government? Lord Adonis is sensible enough, to be sure, but I don't think will have the clout. Ed Balls is, well, Ed Balls.
    Lol.

    Don't worry, Ed won't be a worse PM than liar Cameron, it's not possible. "No more top down reorganisations".
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    From the student loans article linked earlier....
    "Mr Willetts presented this plan to leading universities but, officials said, he later became more interested in getting newer and less-renowned institutions involved. "

    Did the Russel group tell him where to put his ideas?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    I really hope Alanbrooke isnt watching Newsnight right now....
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Hugh said:

    Your very last hope is a Kinnockised assault on Ed from your media arm isn't it?

    A long shot.

    My very good hope is that voters will look at the choice available to them.

    No guarantees, of course. I don't entirely share Jack W's faith that voters are rational.. Sometimes they are bonkers.
    I've never inferred the voters are rational. Many of them can't be trusted to tie their shoe laces let alone vote and a high proportion should be locked up on polling day.

    However as bonkers as many are the nation still retains a suitable number of spanners in their collective tool box not to place Ed in Downing Street.

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    Seems that some genius "borked" the estimates for the student loans book? I do hope whoever it was, wasn't counting on spending the twelve billion they estimated for selling it off, for anything important.

    The surreal thing about government accounting is that they don't seem to take any notice of assets. If you're owed a load of money, and you sell those debts to somebody else at fair value, that should make basically zero difference to the amount of money you have available to spend on things, because the money you get for the loan book just replaces your future income stream from the debts.

    Isn't there a way we could get the government to account for things properly so we don't incentivize politicians to play all these silly games? (See also PFI etc.)
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,873
    LAB most seats tightened on Betfair now 1.87

    Tories most seats now out to 2.16.

    Twas only a month ago when some were expecting crossover on this market.

    I am in four figures deep at longer odds on LAB most seats and am currently inclined not to lay
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @edmundintokyo
    Sadly no,It would mean them having to be honest with the voters.
    We have the great British traditions to uphold!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Smarmeron said:

    "Student loans overhaul planned by ministers"
    Really? *chortle* *titter* and "LOL"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28528824

    System sounds in a right mess tbh.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I have the embargoed figures for tomorrow mornings McARSE ....

    And I'm now going to bed with them ....

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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    SeanT said:

    Unbelievable Israeli *c*nt* on Newsnight right now.

    "We warn and leaflet before we bomb"

    Most people have a lot of sympathy for Israel because of what happened to Jews during the 1930's and 1940's.

    But I think this sympathy is being tested by the actions of Israel, which may cause Jewish communities problems. There are already reports of attacks around the UK and I think this will get worse, if Israel continues to kill innocents. Over 230 children now killed.



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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Smarmeron said:

    @edmundintokyo
    Sadly no,It would mean them having to be honest with the voters.
    We have the great British traditions to uphold!

    It's not obvious that proper accounting would be a problem for politicians - it would be a much cheerier picture if you reported the government's actual net worth instead of just fretting about the liabilities all the time.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    JackW said:

    I've never inferred the voters are rational. Many of them can't be trusted to tie their shoe laces let alone vote and a high proportion should be locked up on polling day.

    However as bonkers as many are the nation still retains a suitable number of spanners in their collective tool box not to place Ed in Downing Street.

    I hope you're right, and sorry for putting words into your mouth!
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Tbf to Alanbrooke Willetts doesnt seem to understand basic implications of his own proposals. Where's he placed his other brain?
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Pulpstar said:

    Smarmeron said:

    "Student loans overhaul planned by ministers"
    Really? *chortle* *titter* and "LOL"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-28528824

    System sounds in a right mess tbh.
    Everyone knows that the government in its calculations is factoring in an incredibly low percentage of the money ever being paid back. Hence their rational to get some cash up front for it whilst the going is good, before the default rate climbs. There'll be the usual flannel and show act but that is what its all about at the root of it all.
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