In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
Just heard on the news that Israel offered to extend its 12 hour ceasefire by 4 hours, Hamas rejects it and fires more rockets into Israel.
I'm curious how Israel will get blamed for this but I'm sure they'll find a way.
It's about the proportionately.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas' rockets and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel's offensive?
Israel is entitled to do what it has to do to protect its borders and people.
They need to stop the rockets and demolish all the tunnels etc used by Hamas.
Given the military capability they have at their disposal, their response thus far has been very restrained.
Given Hamas' tactics of basing rockets in homes and schools, including 2 UN run schools, collateral damage is inevitable, and Hamas actions suggest that this is a choice they are prepared to make.
I don't want to get into a moral superiority argument - there's plenty of unfortunate history on both sides.
Israel is entitled to protect itself.
Not by any means, surely? Israel seems to be simply taking reprisals, rather than seeking to destroy the military capacity of the enemy. What is it doing to degrade the command and control capacity of Hamas or the Palestinian state?
The strategy seems to maintain a thin pretext of legitimate military action simply so that civilians can be killed, while claiming they are collateral. Actually what Israel is doing is seeking to increase the cost to Hamas of launching attacks by imposing civilian casualties up to point where Hamas finds them unacceptable, and desists.
For the avoidance of doubt, you're saying the Palestinians should not use the methods that some Israelis used to obtain their state?
Firstly, I don't entirely see the relevance of this. I don't think China should use the methods we did to build our economy (slavery) but I still think the UK should negotiate trade deals with China and so on.
Secondly, the massacre of Palestinian villages were horrific war crimes. But the bombing (with several ignored warnings) of a hotel which had been converted to the military headquarters of British forces? How is that not a legitimate target of war?
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
It seems to me that this so-called "Wisdom Poll" simply reflects the previous week's VI polls. As such, it would be more accurately described as a "Common Sense Poll".
That said though, just when it seems that the Tories are at last catching Labour, they get walloped by another bad poll!
Actually what Israel is doing is seeking to increase the cost to Hamas of launching attacks by imposing civilian casualties up to point where Hamas finds them unacceptable, and desists.
Don't get me wrong, it will be effective.
Don't hold your breath, it hasn't worked for decades. Remember when Israel did exactly what it's doing now in 2008, since when there have been no real change in circumstances?
For the avoidance of doubt, you're saying the Palestinians should not use the methods that some Israelis used to obtain their state?
Firstly, I don't entirely see the relevance of this. I don't think China should use the methods we did to build our economy (slavery) but I still think the UK should negotiate trade deals with China and so on.
Secondly, the massacre of Palestinian villages were horrific war crimes. But the bombing (with several ignored warnings) of a hotel which had been converted to the military headquarters of British forces? How is that not a legitimate target of war?
Well it housed Civilians, it was this bit that amused me, explain to me, how a government printing press is a legitimate target of war?
Amichai Paglin, Chief of Operations of the Irgun, developed a remote-controlled mortar with a range of four miles, which was nicknamed the V3 by British military engineers. In 1945, after attacks using the mortar had been made on several police stations, six V3s were buried in the olive grove park south of the King David Hotel.
Three were aimed at the government printing press and three at the hotel itself.[5] The intention was to fire them on the King's birthday, but the Haganah learned about the plan and warned the British through Teddy Kollek of the Jewish Agency. Army sappers then dug them up. On another occasion, members of an unknown group threw grenades, which missed, at the hotel.
Quite an interesting exhibition on at the Hamburger Kunsthalle at the moment, "C'est la vie", which I had a quick look at today. The main building is being refurbished and will open in 2016.
Israel has a right to defend itself..... Jeez, is defending itself the systemic economic starvation and mass bombing of a densely populated impoverished zone- is this what counts as self defence? And, the many thousands and tens of thousands who have been killed, maimed, left destitute as a result of this state sponsored, cataclysmic, ideological and obviously well planned destruction. Think of them, their families, their relatives who will harbour a lifetime of hatred and desire for retribution. Does this count as self defence for the Israeli's who will pay with their own blood in the future in a vicious cycle of tit for tat and one upmanship. The murder of innocent Israeli teenagers and reprisals. The inevitable come backs. Is this the basis of self defence?
Violence begets violence. Israel's bloody, nihilistic path is driven by a perfect storm of negativity- the fact that the American congress is held hostage by a bunch of idiotic, tea party fanatics with an election looming. Equally, the bloody minded, drive to the right in Israel dominated by the fanatical settlers (mainly from Russia). Iran's weakness and it's desire for some kind of legitimacy ergo Hamas's isolation. Civil war in Syria. The fall of the Muslim brotherhood. Europe's introspection. Islamaphobia.
There are no reasonable checks and balances for Israel. And without checks and balances the destruction of Gaza is a consequence. Israel has been planning for this attack for some time, biding its time and seized its moment given the set of global events listed above. This premeditated act of violence by Israel will not solve anything other than fuel the fires of hatred, murder and death for generations to come for Jews and Arabs alike. Self defence it certainly ain't.
For the avoidance of doubt, you're saying the Palestinians should not use the methods that some Israelis used to obtain their state?
Firstly, I don't entirely see the relevance of this. I don't think China should use the methods we did to build our economy (slavery) but I still think the UK should negotiate trade deals with China and so on.
Secondly, the massacre of Palestinian villages were horrific war crimes. But the bombing (with several ignored warnings) of a hotel which had been converted to the military headquarters of British forces? How is that not a legitimate target of war?
Well it housed Civilians, it was this bit that amused me, explain to me, how a government printing press is a legitimate target of war?
To be honest if you attacked it while workers weren't inside I'd say government propaganda (not meant pejoratively) operations would seem a legitimate target to me. And if said civilians are running the army HQ I think we are well into a grey area here, particularly if you take significant measures to minimise casualties.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
With regards to the Israel/Gaza situation, the best quote I read recently was: You don't stop a dog biting you by attaching electrodes to it's balls.
Indeed. But how are you going to persuade Hamas to stop firing the rockets?
Easy, you don't. Hamas can't be convinced. The Gazan people however, probably can be convinced to not support Hamas and to get new leaders. At the moment Israel tries to do this by punishing them for supporting Hamas via blockades and military means. Predictably this just causes resentment and Gazans don't see Hamas as the problem but Israel. Now if Israel were to instead reward the Palestinians who have chosen peace and negotiation in The West Bank by entering serious independence negotiations, removing some settlements, and so on; I think that would be a more persuasive argument to the man on the Gaza City street.
EDIT: To be honest it's a miracle The West Bank Palestinians have kept the faith with Abbas for so long. They aren't being bombed, which is good for sure, but Israel is also steadily settling further and giving them frankly very little in return for their cooperation/inaction.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
One in six adults (17%), the equivalent of 697,000 voters, said they would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.
The survey of 1,041 adults living in Scotland found 42% believe the country would be poorer under independence against 34% who expect it to be richer. The proportion who think they would be £500 or more a year worse off (28%) is double that who believe they would be £500 or more better off (14%).
Just in case Mr. Llama is late with his intelligence gathering mission, and as he pointed out that intelligence is important.
"Unfortunately for Maxim the British army high command could see no real use for the oil-cooled machine gun he demonstrated to them in 1885; other officers even regarded the weapon as an improper form of warfare.
Not so the German army which quickly produced a version of Maxim's invention (the Maschinengewehr 08) in large quantities at a Spandau arsenal; by the time war broke out in August 1914 the Germans had 12,000 at their disposal, a number which eventually ballooned to 100,000.
In contrast the British and French had access to a mere few hundred equivalents when war began."
Apologies, but when someone calls you out on facts of which they are ignorant of, I tend to get slightly miffed
The German army of 1914 was millions strong and geared for a continental war. The British army of 1914 was a few hundred thousand strong and geared for a colonial war. Their respective kit reflects that fact.
Now look to 1918 when the British Army is geared for continental war. Compare and contrast machine guns, artillery and especially noteworthy tanks between the British and German armies.
On machine guns, aye but the British Army learnt look at the Lewis machine-gun. Rejected by all armies accept the British who used it as a LMG distributed throughout infantry divisions whilst using the Vickers as a discreet Machine Gun Corps attached to infantry divisions.
Moreover compare and contrast the British Army of 1918 with the German (defeated convulsed by mutiny), Russian (defeated), Austrian-Hungarian (defeated), French (convulsed by mutiny). In 1918 the British Army is supreme.
The British Army started in 1914 as a small professional colonial army against mass continental armies. It struggled and it learnt and it bested their best. By 1918 it was the most effective fighting force in the world.
You make a good point about the variation in tactics that is perhaps worth reflecting on. In contrast to the stereotype of the inflexible British General in fact in the British Army of WW1 Battalion commanders had a wide degree of latitude in their tactics. Impressively the British Army then learned from differing approaches and reflected those lessons the next time it saw action. - An example here is the "Russian Sap" a trench leading into 'no-mans land' to act as a staging post prior to attacking the German first line. Some Battalion commanders used this, others did not. After read AAR (After Action Reports) it became clear that when "Russian saps" has been used success had been greater than in sections where they had not. Next time they would be used across all formation. The British Army of WW1 was not the inflexible monolith of Blackadder. It was a flexible, innovative and by 1918 the most successful army in the field.
And now dinner, anon.
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Child. However, you mustn't go around speaking the truth even on here. It is not what people, even TSE with whom I had credited more sense, want to hear.
I'm sorry, my knowledge of the First World War is coloured by reading Alan Clark's book.
I just read about some of the casualties in some of the engagements and think, there's a pattern here.
"Lions led by Donkeys"? You know Alan Clark admitted to making that quote up? I'm on holiday and dont have the source to hand when home I will dig it out but make it up he did.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
@YossariansChild What were they like in 1916? The Battle of the Somme? http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/battle_somme.shtml I posted earlier about the real reason for them walking slowly in line. The more experienced units had already been shot to bits by the same type of idiocy. By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?
You make a good point about the variation in tactics that is perhaps worth reflecting on. In contrast to the stereotype of the inflexible British General in fact in the British Army of WW1 Battalion commanders had a wide degree of latitude in their tactics. Impressively the British Army then learned from differing approaches and reflected those lessons the next time it saw action. - An example here is the "Russian Sap" a trench leading into 'no-mans land' to act as a staging post prior to attacking the German first line. Some Battalion commanders used this, others did not. After read AAR (After Action Reports) it became clear that when "Russian saps" has been used success had been greater than in sections where they had not. Next time they would be used across all formation. The British Army of WW1 was not the inflexible monolith of Blackadder. It was a flexible, innovative and by 1918 the most successful army in the field.
And now dinner, anon.
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Child. However, you mustn't go around speaking the truth even on here. It is not what people, even TSE with whom I had credited more sense, want to hear.
I'm sorry, my knowledge of the First World War is coloured by reading Alan Clark's book.
I just read about some of the casualties in some of the engagements and think, there's a pattern here.
"Lions led by Donkeys"? You know Alan Clark admitted to making that quote up? I'm on holiday and dont have the source to hand when home I will dig it out but make it up he did.
You make a good point about the variation in tactics that is perhaps worth reflecting on. In contrast to the stereotype of the inflexible British General in fact in the British Army of WW1 Battalion commanders had a wide degree of latitude in their tactics. Impressively the British Army then learned from differing approaches and reflected those lessons the next time it saw action. - An example here is the "Russian Sap" a trench leading into 'no-mans land' to act as a staging post prior to attacking the German first line. Some Battalion commanders used this, others did not. After read AAR (After Action Reports) it became clear that when "Russian saps" has been used success had been greater than in sections where they had not. Next time they would be used across all formation. The British Army of WW1 was not the inflexible monolith of Blackadder. It was a flexible, innovative and by 1918 the most successful army in the field.
And now dinner, anon.
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Child. However, you mustn't go around speaking the truth even on here. It is not what people, even TSE with whom I had credited more sense, want to hear.
I'm sorry, my knowledge of the First World War is coloured by reading Alan Clark's book.
I just read about some of the casualties in some of the engagements and think, there's a pattern here.
"Lions led by Donkeys"? You know Alan Clark admitted to making that quote up? I'm on holiday and dont have the source to hand when home I will dig it out but make it up he did.
I think the quote predates Mr Clarke -
Evelyn, Princess Blücher, an Englishwoman who lived in Berlin during the First World War, in her memoir published in 1921, recalled hearing German general Erich Ludendorff praise the British for their bravery and remembered hearing first hand the following statement from the German General Headquarters (Grosses Hauptquartier): "The English Generals are wanting in strategy. We should have no chance if they possessed as much science as their officers and men had of courage and bravery. They are lions led by donkeys."
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
697K voters, would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September.
Hmm, I thought only London based luvvies said that sort of thing?
Those type of questions are my pet peeve. Thinking about emigrating could be as much as "Hmm, no". They should really ask if they would seriously consider doing it. I guess the number would be negligible.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
They hid some of the pages, so we suspect there was VI involved, but not released.
Just heard on the news that Israel offered to extend its 12 hour ceasefire by 4 hours, Hamas rejects it and fires more rockets into Israel.
I'm curious how Israel will get blamed for this but I'm sure they'll find a way.
It's about the proportionately.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas' rockets and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel's offensive?
You appear to be saying that Israel just has to sit there and take it.
Nope, I am saying that the Israeli administration has to start being fair to others.
No matter how you put it, every time I hear of Gaza I remember the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Surprising as it may seem, there was only a couple of hundred Wehrmacht deaths against at the final solution, nearly 50,000 Do the percentages sound familiar, should do, 40 Israeli dead against nearly 1000 Palestinians.
This is a particular PR disaster for the Israelis, and for the record, I have no particular sympathy for the Palestinians in this instance
Just heard on the news that Israel offered to extend its 12 hour ceasefire by 4 hours, Hamas rejects it and fires more rockets into Israel.
I'm curious how Israel will get blamed for this but I'm sure they'll find a way.
It's about the proportionately.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas' rockets and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel's offensive?
Israel is entitled to do what it has to do to protect its borders and people.
They need to stop the rockets and demolish all the tunnels etc used by Hamas.
Given the military capability they have at their disposal, their response thus far has been very restrained.
Given Hamas' tactics of basing rockets in homes and schools, including 2 UN run schools, collateral damage is inevitable, and Hamas actions suggest that this is a choice they are prepared to make.
Just heard on the news that Israel offered to extend its 12 hour ceasefire by 4 hours, Hamas rejects it and fires more rockets into Israel.
I'm curious how Israel will get blamed for this but I'm sure they'll find a way.
It's about the proportionately.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas' rockets and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel's offensive?
Israel is entitled to do what it has to do to protect its borders and people.
They need to stop the rockets and demolish all the tunnels etc used by Hamas.
Given the military capability they have at their disposal, their response thus far has been very restrained.
Given Hamas' tactics of basing rockets in homes and schools, including 2 UN run schools, collateral damage is inevitable, and Hamas actions suggest that this is a choice they are prepared to make.
697K voters, would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September.
Hmm, I thought only London based luvvies said that sort of thing?
Those type of questions are my pet peeve. Thinking about emigrating could be as much as "Hmm, no". They should really ask if they would seriously consider doing it. I guess the number would be negligible.
Pretty much the same question as "discovered" that a quarter of Bulgaria would up sticks when transitional controls were lifted.
Or as you can see most days on Wanted Down Under where families realise they could get more for their money, enjoy the sun, own a pool, and still won't move.
@YossariansChild What were they like in 1916? The Battle of the Somme? http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/battle_somme.shtml I posted earlier about the real reason for them walking slowly in line. The more experienced units had already been shot to bits by the same type of idiocy. By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?
Dear God, is their no limit to your propensity to post your ignorance? I can give you quite a good reading list from my own shelves and then you might want to trip along the National Records Office to look at some original sources.
Alternatively, you can continue to spout off your ignorance and make yourself look foolish.
697K voters, would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September.
Hmm, I thought only London based luvvies said that sort of thing?
I can just see 1 in 7 of the population leaving , sounds very plausible poll. Who makes this crap up.
Evening MrG – I think RobD, below has it about right – there is a vast difference between considering doing something, and actually doing it. - as you say, tis a daft question with the sole purpose of garnering a headline; it will never happen.
Just heard on the news that Israel offered to extend its 12 hour ceasefire by 4 hours, Hamas rejects it and fires more rockets into Israel.
I'm curious how Israel will get blamed for this but I'm sure they'll find a way.
It's about the proportionately.
How many Israeli civilians have been killed by Hamas' rockets and how many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel's offensive?
What is a proportionate response to Israeli civilian deaths?
While it a common way of describing the line, I can't help but think one's view of what is or is not proportionate already reflects one's attitude to the conflict, rather than informing it.
When Thatcher came within a hair's breadth of being assassinated by the IRA and Downing Street came under attack the British Government did not send in tanks and helicopter gunships to West Belfast and massacre civilians in a futile attempt to wipe out the IRA, it pursued the political and diplomatic path with eventual results. Israeli overkill hasn't worked in the previous conflicts with Hamas, why should it now?
I'm not sure the comparison is going to help.
The British in Northern Ireland interned hundreds if not thousands without trial, and killed an estimated 363 people over the course of the Troubles. We also limited the number of border crossings in order to abate cross-border smuggling. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to defend British actions in Northern Ireland, but it's hardly a club to hit Israel with when talking short term.
However I think it is the long term vision that both Israel and Hamas lack. In the end, the British put faith in a power-sharing deal and made it stick.
697K voters, would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September.
Hmm, I thought only London based luvvies said that sort of thing?
I can just see 1 in 7 of the population leaving , sounds very plausible poll. Who makes this crap up.
Evening MrG – I think RobD, below has it about right – there is a vast difference between considering doing something, and actually doing it. - as you say, tis a daft question with the sole purpose of garnering a headline; it will never happen.
Good evening to you Simon, good to see some sensible opinions on here. Will be some surprised people come 19th September.
@HurstLlama You can list what you like, I got it from the people who where there in the mud and filth. One of whom was a lance corporal who would later be awarded the military medal, and busted to private for belting a sergeant (who was new to the front) on the same day. He and his friends sparked my interest and reading. what sparked yours?
Another interesting blog from rosebud, aka Ian Warren, on the lib dem win in the local Maidstone byelection this week and the potential UKIP impact in C/LD marginals.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
They hid some of the pages, so we suspect there was VI involved, but not released.
Why would they do that? Calibrating for future polls? Or the result just not to the Sun Tel's liking? (I thought only the Guardian did that!)
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
They hid some of the pages, so we suspect there was VI involved, but not released.
Why would they do that? Calibrating for future polls? Or the result just not to the Sun Tel's liking? (I thought only the Guardian did that!)
Sometimes it is methodology testing/refinement.
I think they should release it under BPC rules though.
One key question is whether the FPTP system will survive a result where the party that got the most votes does not get the most seats. I know such a thing happened in the 1970s but we are in a different era now. It will be further undermined if we get results such as UKIP polling 10-15% (possibly more than the LibDems) but getting no seats.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
They hid some of the pages, so we suspect there was VI involved, but not released.
Why would they do that? Calibrating for future polls? Or the result just not to the Sun Tel's liking? (I thought only the Guardian did that!)
Sometimes it is methodology testing/refinement.
I think they should release it under BPC rules though.
They didn't publish the VI figures though, so strictly no need to publish in the tables.
@HurstLlama You can list what you like, I got it from the people who where there in the mud and filth. One of whom was a lance corporal who would later be awarded the military medal, and busted to private for belting a sergeant (who was new to the front) on the same day. He and his friends sparked my interest and reading. what sparked yours?
You're not serious? The people at the front are the least likely to have any understanding of the strategic issues. They were much too busy worrying about the next few minutes and yards.
In today’s ICM/Sunday Telegraph Wisdom Index poll, the Liberal Democrats are predicted to receive 14 per cent of the vote with Ukip on 15 per cent, the Tories on 30 per cent and Labour on 33 per cent.
Martin Boon, the director of ICM research, said the result was “something of a shock”, after the narrow Conservative lead of 0.7 points in May.
ICM questioned 2,043 adults aged 18 and over from across Britain, online, on July 23 and 24.
How did I know we'd be getting an ICM Wisdon poll?
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
There was some idiot on the other thread saying there'd be only one poll this evening.
I wonder where he is now.
I don't think a Wisdom poll counts as an opinion poll, though.
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
They hid some of the pages, so we suspect there was VI involved, but not released.
Why would they do that? Calibrating for future polls? Or the result just not to the Sun Tel's liking? (I thought only the Guardian did that!)
Sometimes it is methodology testing/refinement.
I think they should release it under BPC rules though.
They didn't publish the VI figures though, so strictly no need to publish in the tables.
However there must have been other questions as well, which could have influenced other questions, so they need to publish.
@saddened You were never a squaddie were you? If the Germans had known for weeks there was an offensive coming, but the "tommies" didn't? Do you think some of them might have an idle chat or two when they were rotated to the rear? Or perhaps you think that those ignorant "Clydesiders" couldn't understand the concepts of "The big picture?"
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
@saddened So you were the one squaddie who never thought about what the next few weeks could be like, or heard a fairly likely rumour?? Billy no mates were you?
@saddened So you were the one squaddie who never thought about what the next few weeks could be like, or heard a fairly likely rumour?? Billy no mates were you?
You really are clueless. How much time did you spend in the Army?
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
Right strategy, too late. Having spent 2011, 2012, 2013, and most of 2014 looking thoroughly miserable and being completely negative about the coalition, voters will simply be even more bemused if the LibDems now switch back towards celebrating it.
To be fair, Danny A understood this from the start. I think Nick Clegg did too, but he tends to get into Mr Shouty mode and become all defensive, which doesn't inspire confidence . The big problem has been convincing the party as a whole.
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
"Biggus Nickus" [tries to stifle laughter]
"What's so funny about Biggus Nickus?"
I so want to write a thread on this, I'd be able to segue in so many subtle Life of Brian references.
Not one minute, well over half the lads I drank with were.I learned to listen carefully All units, 3 of them at least would bust your face for saying they were "army" (RM's) If you see a huge pile of shells being piled up near your guns, you might assume that it was the Queens birthday? At least you might think so?
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
"Biggus Nickus" [tries to stifle laughter]
"What's so funny about Biggus Nickus?"
I so want to write a thread on this, I'd be able to segue in so many subtle Life of Brian references.
Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
"Biggus Nickus" [tries to stifle laughter]
"What's so funny about Biggus Nickus?"
I so want to write a thread on this, I'd be able to segue in so many subtle Life of Brian references.
Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.
When the Lib Dems are reduced to 10 MPs at the next election, you know what we're all going to sing.
We are back to this. The Germans knew an attack was coming,(they were generally on higher ground due to having first dibs on the real estate)? The squaddies only clue is a huge pile of shells being stacked (mainly because they are unloading the f*cking things during rotation) These are regular soldiers, many of them having been in the army from before the war. Not even the Guards could be that stupid as to not notice? (Though some of them are fairly dense)
I have to say I really don't get this whole somebody called somebody a pleb or a slut or some other rude word.
They were rude to them, well thats not very nice, but if the plod had just been called "f##king useless tickbox paper pushing < insert tirade of swear words >", would that have been better, worse or the same?
Same as if this women has been called a lot of expletives and no mention of slut, would that be less bad? What about trollope? is that ok?
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
Smarmerson said - 'By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?'
You only have to look at the casualty figures to see who was breaking the stalemate. Even by 1918 the American Army had not arrived in large numbers and those that had arrived needed acclimatising and battle training. And the Americans did not want to listen to the wise words of the French and British Veterans and they made all the same mistakes all over again. They were brave soldiers but inexperienced. By 1919 of course the US numbers would have been huge and that is why the Germans attacked in 1918 and ultimately bled themselves white in the process.
You make a good point about the variation in tactics that is perhaps worth reflecting on. In contrast to the stereotype of the inflexible British General in fact in the British Army of WW1 Battalion commanders had a wide degree of latitude in their tactics. Impressively the British Army then learned from differing approaches and reflected those lessons the next time it saw action. - An example here is the "Russian Sap" a trench leading into 'no-mans land' to act as a staging post prior to attacking the German first line. Some Battalion commanders used this, others did not. After read AAR (After Action Reports) it became clear that when "Russian saps" has been used success had been greater than in sections where they had not. Next time they would be used across all formation. The British Army of WW1 was not the inflexible monolith of Blackadder. It was a flexible, innovative and by 1918 the most successful army in the field.
And now dinner, anon.
You are absolutely correct, Mr. Child. However, you mustn't go around speaking the truth even on here. It is not what people, even TSE with whom I had credited more sense, want to hear.
I'm sorry, my knowledge of the First World War is coloured by reading Alan Clark's book.
I just read about some of the casualties in some of the engagements and think, there's a pattern here.
"Lions led by Donkeys"? You know Alan Clark admitted to making that quote up? I'm on holiday and dont have the source to hand when home I will dig it out but make it up he did.
I think the quote predates Mr Clarke -
Evelyn, Princess Blücher, an Englishwoman who lived in Berlin during the First World War, in her memoir published in 1921, recalled hearing German general Erich Ludendorff praise the British for their bravery and remembered hearing first hand the following statement from the German General Headquarters (Grosses Hauptquartier): "The English Generals are wanting in strategy. We should have no chance if they possessed as much science as their officers and men had of courage and bravery. They are lions led by donkeys."
Yossarrians Child says -- ''The British Army started in 1914 as a small professional colonial army against mass continental armies. It struggled and it learnt and it bested their best. By 1918 it was the most effective fighting force in the world. ''
When the Lib Dems are reduced to 10 MPs at the next election, you know what we're all going to sing.
Always look on the bright side of life.
There are Whigs in the world there are Kippers There are Tories and Labour, and then There are those that follow Alex Salmond, but I've never been one of them
I'm a Liberal Democrat And have been since before I was born And the one thing they say about LibDems is They'll take you as soon as you're warm
You don't have to be a six-footer You don't have to have a great brain You don't have to have any clothes on you're A LibDem the moment Paddy came
Because every vote is sacred Every vote is great If a vote is wasted God gets quite irate
Every vote is sacred Every vote is great If a vote is wasted God gets quite irate
Let the Tory spoil theirs On the dusty ground God shall make them pay for Each vote that can't be found
Every vote is wanted Every vote is good Every vote is needed In your neighborhood
Tory, Kipper, Labour Spoil theirs just anywhere But God loves those who treat their Ballots with more care
Every vote is sacred Every vote is great If a vote is wasted God gets quite irate
Every vote is sacred Every vote is good Every vote is needed In your neighborhood
Every vote is useful Every vote is fine God needs everybody's Mine and mine and mine
Let the Kipper spoil theirs Over mountain, hill, and plain God shall strike them down for Each vote that's spoilt in vain
Every vote is sacred Every vote is good Every vote is needed In your neighborhood
Every vote is sacred Every vote is great If a vote is wasted God gets quite irate
For the avoidance of doubt, you're saying the Palestinians should not use the methods that some Israelis used to obtain their state?
Firstly, I don't entirely see the relevance of this. I don't think China should use the methods we did to build our economy (slavery) but I still think the UK should negotiate trade deals with China and so on.
Secondly, the massacre of Palestinian villages were horrific war crimes. But the bombing (with several ignored warnings) of a hotel which had been converted to the military headquarters of British forces? How is that not a legitimate target of war?
The British were foremost in abolishing slavery and the slave trade. Britain was not at war with anyone when the hotel was bombed. It was fulfilling a UN mandate. Since it was not at war then the bombing was a crime carried out by terrorists.
Smarmerson said - 'By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?'
You only have to look at the casualty figures to see who was breaking the stalemate. Even by 1918 the American Army had not arrived in large numbers and those that had arrived needed acclimatising and battle training. And the Americans did not want to listen to the wise words of the French and British Veterans and they made all the same mistakes all over again. They were brave soldiers but inexperienced. By 1919 of course the US numbers would have been huge and that is why the Germans attacked in 1918 and ultimately bled themselves white in the process.
The British army, on its own, took as many prisoners as the French and US armies COMBINED during the 100 Days Offensive of 1918.
From wiki
British forces took 188,700 prisoners and captured 2,840 guns French forces took 139,000 prisoners and captured 1,880 guns American forces took 44,142 prisoners and captured 1,481 guns Belgian forces took 14,500 prisoners and captured 414 guns
Smarmerson said - 'By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?'
You only have to look at the casualty figures to see who was breaking the stalemate. Even by 1918 the American Army had not arrived in large numbers and those that had arrived needed acclimatising and battle training. And the Americans did not want to listen to the wise words of the French and British Veterans and they made all the same mistakes all over again. They were brave soldiers but inexperienced. By 1919 of course the US numbers would have been huge and that is why the Germans attacked in 1918 and ultimately bled themselves white in the process.
While Russia was knocked out of the war after the second Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (March '18), the Germans had to garrison the newly conquered Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine with thousands of their troops, partially negating any numerical advantage they might have had over the Western Allies.
I have to say I really don't get this whole somebody called somebody a pleb or a slut or some other rude word.
They were rude to them, well thats not very nice, but if the plod had just been called "f##king useless tickbox paper pushing < insert tirade of swear words >", would that have been better, worse or the same?
Same as if this women has been called a lot of expletives and no mention of slut, would that be less bad? What about trollope? is that ok?
Well, he appears to be correct
Ms Gordon has just published a book about her youthful exploits, The Wrong Knickers, which has drawn comparisons with Bridget Jones’s Diaries and won rave reviews.
Ms Gordon, now happily married, tells of her one-night stands, drug taking and a long running affair with a married man who made love to her while watching Jeremy Paxman on Newsnight.
In it, she says her friends used to call her, affectionately, ‘little slut,’ for sleeping around.
Smarmerson said - 'By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?'
You only have to look at the casualty figures to see who was breaking the stalemate. Even by 1918 the American Army had not arrived in large numbers and those that had arrived needed acclimatising and battle training. And the Americans did not want to listen to the wise words of the French and British Veterans and they made all the same mistakes all over again. They were brave soldiers but inexperienced. By 1919 of course the US numbers would have been huge and that is why the Germans attacked in 1918 and ultimately bled themselves white in the process.
While Russia was knocked out of the war after the second Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (March '18), the Germans had to garrison the newly conquered Baltics, Belarus and Ukraine with thousands of their troops, partially negating any numerical advantage they might have had over the Western Allies.
Additionally sending their newly released POWs, already demotivated and full of Bolshevik propaganda, to reinforce the western front was hardly conducive to unit cohesion.
Comments
The strategy seems to maintain a thin pretext of legitimate military action simply so that civilians can be killed, while claiming they are collateral. Actually what Israel is doing is seeking to increase the cost to Hamas of launching attacks by imposing civilian casualties up to point where Hamas finds them unacceptable, and desists.
Don't get me wrong, it will be effective.
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 2m
MAIL ON SUNDAY: Defence minister branded woman author 'a slut'
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Btf1bprIIAAy7Ga.jpg
Secondly, the massacre of Palestinian villages were horrific war crimes. But the bombing (with several ignored warnings) of a hotel which had been converted to the military headquarters of British forces? How is that not a legitimate target of war?
That said though, just when it seems that the Tories are at last catching Labour, they get walloped by another bad poll!
Amichai Paglin, Chief of Operations of the Irgun, developed a remote-controlled mortar with a range of four miles, which was nicknamed the V3 by British military engineers. In 1945, after attacks using the mortar had been made on several police stations, six V3s were buried in the olive grove park south of the King David Hotel.
Three were aimed at the government printing press and three at the hotel itself.[5] The intention was to fire them on the King's birthday, but the Haganah learned about the plan and warned the British through Teddy Kollek of the Jewish Agency. Army sappers then dug them up. On another occasion, members of an unknown group threw grenades, which missed, at the hotel.
http://www.hamburger-kunsthalle.de/index.php/cest-la-vie-460.html
Israel has a right to defend itself..... Jeez, is defending itself the systemic economic starvation and mass bombing of a densely populated impoverished zone- is this what counts as self defence? And, the many thousands and tens of thousands who have been killed, maimed, left destitute as a result of this state sponsored, cataclysmic, ideological and obviously well planned destruction. Think of them, their families, their relatives who will harbour a lifetime of hatred and desire for retribution. Does this count as self defence for the Israeli's who will pay with their own blood in the future in a vicious cycle of tit for tat and one upmanship. The murder of innocent Israeli teenagers and reprisals. The inevitable come backs. Is this the basis of self defence?
Violence begets violence. Israel's bloody, nihilistic path is driven by a perfect storm of negativity- the fact that the American congress is held hostage by a bunch of idiotic, tea party fanatics with an election looming. Equally, the bloody minded, drive to the right in Israel dominated by the fanatical settlers (mainly from Russia). Iran's weakness and it's desire for some kind of legitimacy ergo Hamas's isolation. Civil war in Syria. The fall of the Muslim brotherhood. Europe's introspection. Islamaphobia.
There are no reasonable checks and balances for Israel. And without checks and balances the destruction of Gaza is a consequence. Israel has been planning for this attack for some time, biding its time and seized its moment given the set of global events listed above. This premeditated act of violence by Israel will not solve anything other than fuel the fires of hatred, murder and death for generations to come for Jews and Arabs alike. Self defence it certainly ain't.
UNRWA confirms it was a #Hamas rocket that killed children in school yesterday http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/hamas-may-have-fired-rockets-that-hit-unrwa-school-killing-17/2014/07/24/ … But still they blame Israel
Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times (changes since Jun)
Yes 41 (-2), No 48 (+2) , DK 11 (-1)
Excluding DK's
Yes 46% (-2) No 54% (+2)
I must be physic, LOL!
Shame the result is such a let-down, though...
#CrossOverSaturday
W all know Labour's polling drops when Ed is on TV. The speech is Ed's excuse to not appear during the election camapign
EDIT: To be honest it's a miracle The West Bank Palestinians have kept the faith with Abbas for so long. They aren't being bombed, which is good for sure, but Israel is also steadily settling further and giving them frankly very little in return for their cooperation/inaction.
I wonder where he is now.
One in six adults (17%), the equivalent of 697,000 voters, said they would think about emigrating in the event of a “yes” vote in September’s referendum.
The survey of 1,041 adults living in Scotland found 42% believe the country would be poorer under independence against 34% who expect it to be richer. The proportion who think they would be £500 or more a year worse off (28%) is double that who believe they would be £500 or more better off (14%).
Now look to 1918 when the British Army is geared for continental war. Compare and contrast machine guns, artillery and especially noteworthy tanks between the British and German armies.
On machine guns, aye but the British Army learnt look at the Lewis machine-gun. Rejected by all armies accept the British who used it as a LMG distributed throughout infantry divisions whilst using the Vickers as a discreet Machine Gun Corps attached to infantry divisions.
Moreover compare and contrast the British Army of 1918 with the German (defeated convulsed by mutiny), Russian (defeated), Austrian-Hungarian (defeated), French (convulsed by mutiny). In 1918 the British Army is supreme.
The British Army started in 1914 as a small professional colonial army against mass continental armies. It struggled and it learnt and it bested their best. By 1918 it was the most effective fighting force in the world.
Not that I actually know of course - not being a fan.
Check the pic next to my name......
I tweeted, and it appears every unionist in Scotland is retweeting it.
What were they like in 1916?
The Battle of the Somme?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/battle_somme.shtml
I posted earlier about the real reason for them walking slowly in line.
The more experienced units had already been shot to bits by the same type of idiocy.
By late in the war, the Americans had arrived, and they might have had something to do with breaking the stalemate?
Evelyn, Princess Blücher, an Englishwoman who lived in Berlin during the First World War, in her memoir published in 1921, recalled hearing German general Erich Ludendorff praise the British for their bravery and remembered hearing first hand the following statement from the German General Headquarters (Grosses Hauptquartier): "The English Generals are wanting in strategy. We should have no chance if they possessed as much science as their officers and men had of courage and bravery. They are lions led by donkeys."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lions_led_by_donkeys
Israel over the years has done many things, but the Palestinians still keep on attacking Israel.
Occupation eventually damages the occupied and the Occupier.
Hmm, I thought only London based luvvies said that sort of thing?
ORB International did a political poll for the Sun Tel last weekend, it must have been politically weighted but the tables studiously avoided including VI data. I'm wondering if they might start doing VI polling for the Telegraph in future.
No matter how you put it, every time I hear of Gaza I remember the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Surprising as it may seem, there was only a couple of hundred Wehrmacht deaths against at the final solution, nearly 50,000 Do the percentages sound familiar, should do, 40 Israeli dead against nearly 1000 Palestinians.
This is a particular PR disaster for the Israelis, and for the record, I have no particular sympathy for the Palestinians in this instance
Or as you can see most days on Wanted Down Under where families realise they could get more for their money, enjoy the sun, own a pool, and still won't move.
We're a country of dreamers. And why not.
Alternatively, you can continue to spout off your ignorance and make yourself look foolish.
The British in Northern Ireland interned hundreds if not thousands without trial, and killed an estimated 363 people over the course of the Troubles. We also limited the number of border crossings in order to abate cross-border smuggling. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to defend British actions in Northern Ireland, but it's hardly a club to hit Israel with when talking short term.
However I think it is the long term vision that both Israel and Hamas lack. In the end, the British put faith in a power-sharing deal and made it stick.
You can list what you like, I got it from the people who where there in the mud and filth.
One of whom was a lance corporal who would later be awarded the military medal, and busted to private for belting a sergeant (who was new to the front) on the same day.
He and his friends sparked my interest and reading. what sparked yours?
In this case I think the anonymous comment at 21:50 rather demolishes his analysis.
I think they should release it under BPC rules though.
You were never a squaddie were you?
If the Germans had known for weeks there was an offensive coming, but the "tommies" didn't?
Do you think some of them might have an idle chat or two when they were rotated to the rear?
Or perhaps you think that those ignorant "Clydesiders" couldn't understand the concepts of "The big picture?"
From the Sunday Times
But Danny Alexander has revealed that he is preparing to take on the Tories in media appearances, and plans a blitz of speeches in the autumn ahead of his party’s conference.
Leaflets and briefing papers criticising the Conservatives are being sent to Lib Dem activists around the country so that they can get their points across to voters on the doorstep.
The plan is being called Operation Roman in Lib Dem circles after Monty Python’s “What have the Romans ever done for us?” joke from the film Life of Brian.
The Lib Dems are portraying themselves as the Romans, believing they “never get the credit” for their achievements in government.
So you were the one squaddie who never thought about what the next few weeks could be like, or heard a fairly likely rumour??
Billy no mates were you?
To be fair, Danny A understood this from the start. I think Nick Clegg did too, but he tends to get into Mr Shouty mode and become all defensive, which doesn't inspire confidence . The big problem has been convincing the party as a whole.
"What's so funny about Biggus Nickus?"
All units, 3 of them at least would bust your face for saying they were "army" (RM's)
If you see a huge pile of shells being piled up near your guns, you might assume that it was the Queens birthday? At least you might think so?
Always look on the bright side of life.
The squaddies only clue is a huge pile of shells being stacked (mainly because they are unloading the f*cking things during rotation)
These are regular soldiers, many of them having been in the army from before the war.
Not even the Guards could be that stupid as to not notice? (Though some of them are fairly dense)
And comedian Bobby Davro was also hired to entertain, doing an impersonation of Mr Blair, and singing the song, If I Ruled The World.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706941/He-Middle-East-not-UK-Peace-envoy-Tony-Blair-blasted-throwing-surprise-birthday-party-wife-Cheries-60th-6million-mansion-Gaza-death-toll-passes-1-000.html
Classy...big Gordo's and Uncle Rupert's (and his ex) invites got lost in the mail apparently.
Anything you want to share?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2706948/New-defence-secretary-Michael-Fallon-accused-calling-female-author-slut-drunken-bar-clash.html#ixzz38cGmYVNQ
Pleb-gate...Slut-gate....
I have to say I really don't get this whole somebody called somebody a pleb or a slut or some other rude word.
They were rude to them, well thats not very nice, but if the plod had just been called "f##king useless tickbox paper pushing < insert tirade of swear words >", would that have been better, worse or the same?
Same as if this women has been called a lot of expletives and no mention of slut, would that be less bad? What about trollope? is that ok?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqzW3wQCMAEuW9z.jpg
and
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BdjzDigCIAAlD5-.jpg:large
and
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BVaOA6JIUAACB_m.jpg:large
You only have to look at the casualty figures to see who was breaking the stalemate. Even by 1918 the American Army had not arrived in large numbers and those that had arrived needed acclimatising and battle training. And the Americans did not want to listen to the wise words of the French and British Veterans and they made all the same mistakes all over again. They were brave soldiers but inexperienced. By 1919 of course the US numbers would have been huge and that is why the Germans attacked in 1918 and ultimately bled themselves white in the process.
Again I must totally agree with your post.
I have already posted earlier, that their arrival was not the only way the war could be won?
Yes what a victory, "The war to end all wars", except that it wasn't, we had to have a rematch.
There are Tories and Labour, and then
There are those that follow Alex Salmond, but
I've never been one of them
I'm a Liberal Democrat
And have been since before I was born
And the one thing they say about LibDems is
They'll take you as soon as you're warm
You don't have to be a six-footer
You don't have to have a great brain
You don't have to have any clothes on you're
A LibDem the moment Paddy came
Because every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
God gets quite irate
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
God gets quite irate
Let the Tory spoil theirs
On the dusty ground
God shall make them pay for
Each vote that can't be found
Every vote is wanted
Every vote is good
Every vote is needed
In your neighborhood
Tory, Kipper, Labour
Spoil theirs just anywhere
But God loves those who treat their
Ballots with more care
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
God gets quite irate
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is good
Every vote is needed
In your neighborhood
Every vote is useful
Every vote is fine
God needs everybody's
Mine and mine and mine
Let the Kipper spoil theirs
Over mountain, hill, and plain
God shall strike them down for
Each vote that's spoilt in vain
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is good
Every vote is needed
In your neighborhood
Every vote is sacred
Every vote is great
If a vote is wasted
God gets quite irate
From wiki
British forces took 188,700 prisoners and captured 2,840 guns
French forces took 139,000 prisoners and captured 1,880 guns
American forces took 44,142 prisoners and captured 1,481 guns
Belgian forces took 14,500 prisoners and captured 414 guns
Our finest military achievement.
The real prize goes those who were still ordering attacks ten minutes before the Armistice?
Pure humanitarian genius that was.
Tell her JackW made you do it...
http://www.incrediblethings.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Delete-My-Browser-History-Medicalert-Bracelet.jpg