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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TSE on Making Your Mind Up on who to back at Eurovision.

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » TSE on Making Your Mind Up on who to back at Eurovision.

Whilst the polls show Brits remain cynical about Eurovision and think it is all about politics, some of us enjoy Eurovision for that reason, for the music and the betting opportunities.

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    Natalie Horler representing Germany? She looks OK :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    edited May 2013
    The key to watching the Eurovision Song Contest is to remember that the 20-odd dirges songs are merely the warm-up act to the most fun part - the nation-by-nation scoring at the end!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    The other thing to bear in mind with Eurovision is the apparent media narrative that we have always done crap in recent years. We haven't - we came 5th only four years ago.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PBykhFyy-ZE#t=0s
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,702

    The key to watching the Eurovision Song Contest is to remember that the 20-odd dirges songs are merely the warm-up act to the most fun part - the nation-by-nation scoring at the end!

    Agreed. I can't remember the last time I actually listened to the songs but can still get more than half of the 12 pointers. Actually hearing the songs might be a disadvantage.

    The other attraction is completely inumerate commentators who try to keep the suspense going out of ignorance long after it is actually all over.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    chum before party, chum before competence, chum before everything.

    Unless...

    martin ellis-hall ‏@cutter78 34m

    Was it actually #cameron that said it ? #swivelgate
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    Vicky Foxcroft has won Labour nomination in Lewisham Deptford (Lab maj 30.3% in 2010 GE). As expected.
    http://www.vickyfoxcroft.com/
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    The mad swivel-eyed master strategy emerges. It's chum before party of course!
    Amy Yiannitsarou ‏@AmyYiannitsarou 1m

    Getting vast amounts of entertainment from #swivelgate No10 chosen war with 4 newspapers. Lunacy at its height today.
    Add some inept spinning about 'what's so bad about being called a mad swivel-eyed loon anyway?' mix in some patronising idiocy along the lines of 'activists are all a bit mad anyway aren't they?' and you have near prefect incompetent stupidity only the out of touch chumocracy could think was a good idea.

    Comedy fops at their finest.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Mick_Pork said:

    chum before party, chum before competence, chum before everything.

    Unless...



    martin ellis-hall ‏@cutter78 34m

    Was it actually #cameron that said it ? #swivelgate


    That would be hilarious. If so, surely he'd be toast?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2013
    TSE
    (Whose interest in and enjoyment of all things Eurovision has disturbed his friends for many years)

    Yeh! Well it disturbs me too. To see and hear those inelegant wankers parade their pop's is, to me, pure agony. The last worthwhile and singable tune was Waterloo. since then Eurovision has been a cultural desert.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. Pong, it'd be a bloody bizarre turn of phrase to describe someone as a member of Cameron's inner circle if that person were Cameron.

    That sounds more like someone trying to spin and attach the phrase to Cameron personally.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I had no idea that some of our payment to the European Union actually goes to subsidise tobacco farmers:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22544741
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    MikeK said:

    TSE
    (Whose interest in and enjoyment of all things Eurovision has disturbed his friends for many years)

    Yeh! Well it disturbs me too. To see and hear those inelegant wankers parade their pop's is, to me, pure agony. The last worthwhile and singable tune was Waterloo. since then Eurovision has been a cultural desert.

    Think of it more as a really bizarre form of circus. Harmonising too, as it shows that every part of Europe is full of absolute nutters in weird outfits.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Pong said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    chum before party, chum before competence, chum before everything.

    Unless...



    martin ellis-hall ‏@cutter78 34m

    Was it actually #cameron that said it ? #swivelgate
    That would be hilarious. If so, surely he'd be toast?


    Cammie has been reported in the FT as using the phrase "swivel-eyed" to refer to tories who talk to him about Europe. I'm afraid the inept Cameroon spinners can't slither out of that one.


    The question is who called the tory party activists "mad swivel eyed loons" because they have actually noticed by now as have their MPs and they don't seem best pleased oddly enough.

    The problem for the fops is there's so many chums to choose from in Cammie's chumocracy. So this could go on for quite some time as assorted amusing twits dangle in the wind.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2013
    European Banking Authority has approved proposals to cap the pay of more than ten times as many financial workers in the UK:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/may/17/london-risk-takers-eu-bonus-cap
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I think we need to remember the political side to the voting tonight!

    Germany will do badly because of the Euro crisis, they will get few votes from the mediterranian.

    My favourite is Finland: pretty girl, catchy number, will pick up Scandanavian and Baltic votes as well as good costumes and staging.

    With large Russian minorities in a number of CIS countries and both good song and singer, Russia looks good, Ukraine also for similar reasons.

    Greece has a good song and lively staging, and may get a sympathy vote as well as 12 from Cyprus. The Greek Diaspora may also help with votes in other countries.

    Denmark is strong favourite and has Scandanavian votes likely, but the Scandanavians do share their votes out more widely.

    I have a couple of quid on each of the above, except Denmark, each way, to add interest to the night. Also couldnt resist a couple of quid on someone getting Nul points.

    Viva Eurovision! The worlds biggest TV audience apart from sporting events.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2013
    Mr Hollande said he wanted Britain to stay in the union but any concessions to London must not be at the expense of consolidating the eurozone as “the heart” of the EU.
    He also repeated France’s view that “limits must be set” to prevent the break-up of Europe: the president, who fears a “British contagion” spreading to other members, will resist any attempt to unravel European treaties to allow Mr Cameron to repatriate powers.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/db628364-bf09-11e2-a9d4-00144feab7de.html#axzz2TebP2mKg

    (Paywall)

    Bearing in mind we need unanimous agreement for David Cameron's repatriation, this doesn't look good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    tim said:

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak
    Downing Street spokesman says "it is categorically untrue that anyone in Downing Street made comments about Conservative Party Associations

    It's even worse than being insulted then; they don't even ever discuss party activists at all!
  • samsam Posts: 727
    Jenny Huynh ‏@jennywhojenny 13m

    I can confirm that the #swivelgate #loongate remark was said at the recent #FriendsOfNUCADinner @NUCA_79 #IsItOkayToLaughAtYourOwnJokes

    The president is John HAyes MP, but he doesnt seem likely to be "close to Cameron"
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak
    Downing Street spokesman says "it is categorically untrue that anyone in Downing Street made comments about Conservative Party Associations

    "Anyone in Downing Street"?

    So is that number 10 ruling out Cammie? Or what? anyone inside the building when it was said? Was it in the commons then? CCHQ?

    I sense another public relations and media omnishambles could be on the cards if they keep this up.



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135



    Viva Eurovision! The worlds biggest TV audience apart from sporting events.

    More than Royal Weddings? I suppose they do occur irregularly.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    tim said:

    Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak
    Downing Street spokesman says "it is categorically untrue that anyone in Downing Street made comments about Conservative Party Associations

    "Anyone in Downing Street"?

    Swiveleyegate is in full throttle as the cover-up begins.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    It does sound like it's someone they really don't want it to be.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Huzzah! Azarenka won 6-0, 7-5.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    FTP. Socrates, your pathetic post about Salmond singling out the English by charging them to study in Scotland. Do you think charging Scottish students to study in England is Cameron singling out the Scottish or is that just an inconvenient circumstance but perfectly acceptable.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. G, doesn't everyone get charged to study in England?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,889
    edited May 2013
    "Swiveleyegate is in full throttle as the cover-up begins."

    I'm finding this chase difficult to get excited about when what the unfortunate quarry said is so patently true
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    Mr. G, doesn't everyone get charged to study in England?

    Morris
    Fact is that they would pay if they studied in England so why would we have to pay for them out of the tiny Scottish budget when any Scottish student would be charged in England. They cannot have their cake and eat it. I do agree we should not be subsidising people from EU, but to say it is done for anti English reasons is pathetic. It may be political but certainly not anti English.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013
    malcolmg said:

    FTP. Socrates, your pathetic post about Salmond singling out the English by charging them to study in Scotland. Do you think charging Scottish students to study in England is Cameron singling out the Scottish or is that just an inconvenient circumstance but perfectly acceptable.

    Dont all students pay the same in England whatever their nationality?

    If so, then no one is singled out are they?

    If my first statement is false, then fair enough

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    edited May 2013
    malcolmg said:

    FTP. Socrates, your pathetic post about Salmond singling out the English by charging them to study in Scotland. Do you think charging Scottish students to study in England is Cameron singling out the Scottish or is that just an inconvenient circumstance but perfectly acceptable.

    That's a ridiculous comment.

    In England everyone is charged to study at university.

    In Scotland if you are Scottish you are not charged
    In Scotland if you are from any other EU country you are not charged.
    If you are from England, Wales or Northern Ireland you are charged.

    Now I don't think this is anti-English, just unfair. But to try and compare it with the case for Scots students in England is just stupid.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    Socrates said:

    Mr Hollande said he wanted Britain to stay in the union but any concessions to London must not be at the expense of consolidating the eurozone as “the heart” of the EU.
    He also repeated France’s view that “limits must be set” to prevent the break-up of Europe: the president, who fears a “British contagion” spreading to other members, will resist any attempt to unravel European treaties to allow Mr Cameron to repatriate powers.


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/db628364-bf09-11e2-a9d4-00144feab7de.html#axzz2TebP2mKg

    (Paywall)

    Bearing in mind we need unanimous agreement for David Cameron's repatriation, this doesn't look good.

    When I first read that having not read the quote above I thought you were talking about repatriating Cameron to the EU. I think you would get a lot of support across the political spectrum for that idea :-)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. G, I'm not really sure how a Scot can be annoyed by the situation. Scots pay fees in England, no fees in Scotland. Englishmen pay fees in Scotland, and fees in England.

    On an ironic note, (with £10 stakes) my tennis tips this year are presently surpassing my F1 tips. Not sure if that means my tennis tips are doing well or my F1 tips are awful.
  • samsam Posts: 727
    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, doesn't everyone get charged to study in England?

    Morris
    Fact is that they would pay if they studied in England so why would we have to pay for them out of the tiny Scottish budget when any Scottish student would be charged in England. They cannot have their cake and eat it. I do agree we should not be subsidising people from EU, but to say it is done for anti English reasons is pathetic. It may be political but certainly not anti English.


    Why on earth would a Scottish person study in England if its freemans at home?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 16,889
    @RichardT

    "Now I don't think this is anti-English, just unfair. Butu top try and compare it with the case for Scots students in England is just stupid."

    Actually it's a fairly well balanced argument. The English have chosen to charge students whereas other European and Scottish students go to their universities free of charge. To allow English students to avoid paying by going to a Scottish University would leave them oversubscribed and as the arrangement wouldn't be reciprocal it would also be unfair
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @malcolmg

    Yet Scotland is prepared to give Spanish students free study in Scotland, even when Scots have to pay for study in Spain.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    malcolmg said:

    FTP. Socrates, your pathetic post about Salmond singling out the English by charging them to study in Scotland. Do you think charging Scottish students to study in England is Cameron singling out the Scottish or is that just an inconvenient circumstance but perfectly acceptable.

    That's a ridiculous comment.

    In England everyone is charged to study at university.

    In Scotland if you are Scottish you are not charged
    In Scotland if you are from any other EU country you are not charged.
    If you are from England, Wales or Northern Ireland you are charged.

    Now I don't think this is anti-English, just unfair. But to try and compare it with the case for Scots students in England is just stupid.
    Richard, we can agree to disagree, I see nothing unfair in it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    sam said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, doesn't everyone get charged to study in England?

    Morris
    Fact is that they would pay if they studied in England so why would we have to pay for them out of the tiny Scottish budget when any Scottish student would be charged in England. They cannot have their cake and eat it. I do agree we should not be subsidising people from EU, but to say it is done for anti English reasons is pathetic. It may be political but certainly not anti English.


    Why on earth would a Scottish person study in England if its freemans at home?
    Sam, You would wonder, but assume a few go to Oxford and Cambridge and may be a few specialist subjects perhaps, ie degree in East Enders or Coronation Street
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885

    Mr. G, I'm not really sure how a Scot can be annoyed by the situation. Scots pay fees in England, no fees in Scotland. Englishmen pay fees in Scotland, and fees in England.

    On an ironic note, (with £10 stakes) my tennis tips this year are presently surpassing my F1 tips. Not sure if that means my tennis tips are doing well or my F1 tips are awful.

    Morris as long as you are in positive territory it does not matter
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Are the 'Mad Swivel-Eyed Loons' representing anyone?

    Shapps on news24. Uh-oh.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 43,702
    sam said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mr. G, doesn't everyone get charged to study in England?


    Morris
    Fact is that they would pay if they studied in England so why would we have to pay for them out of the tiny Scottish budget when any Scottish student would be charged in England. They cannot have their cake and eat it. I do agree we should not be subsidising people from EU, but to say it is done for anti English reasons is pathetic. It may be political but certainly not anti English.


    Why on earth would a Scottish person study in England if its freemans at home?</blockquote

    Several reasons. The hidden cost of FE being "free" in Scotland is that there are ever greater restrictions on the number of places that are funded. Most Scottish Universities are now easier to get into if you are not Scottish and are paying fees either because you are from rUK or outside the EU.

    Secondly, England does have one or two fairly useful universities. And test cricket.

    Thirdly, rather than recognise the deficiencies of our state education as Gove is seeking to do our Scottish overlords think it is a better idea to force Universities to take those from disadvantaged backgrounds whether they are educated or not. This is making getting into University even more difficult for what might have been a conventional University student of a few years ago. As these are mainly middle class they are less concerned about the fees.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    More swivel eyed loons.

    'The union passed a no confidence motion in his policies, while president Bernadette Hunter said teachers and pupils had "never had it so bad".'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22558756
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Mr. G, the F1 tips are red without hedging, still slightly green with (hedging is nearly four stakes better than not hedging).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,157
    Re Hollande, it's depressing how, since de Gaulle stepped down , each French President has been worse than his predecessor.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Sean_F

    Was Sarkozy really worse than Chirac or Mitterand?
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    Socrates said:

    European Banking Authority has approved proposals to cap the pay of more than ten times as many financial workers in the UK:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/may/17/london-risk-takers-eu-bonus-cap

    It's time we had a cap on the pay of EU functionaries on account of the risks they run in ruining the lives of European citizens.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,157
    Socrates, I think he was. He was no more competent than either, but less dignified. Hollande, however, is just hapless.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    sam said:

    Why on earth would a Scottish person study in England if its freemans at home?

    You obviously didn't see the display of Scottish education on show at the Farage protest then.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    On the subject of loongate, does anyone give a toss about these stories anymore?

    The last one about plebs went on for six weeks and turned out to be completely made up. Do people really still lap up this rubbish?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,157
    Loongate would just be laughed off if there was any mutual affection between Cameron and his circle, OTOH, and his party and voters on the other.

    But there isn't.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Socrates said:

    @malcolmg

    Yet Scotland is prepared to give Spanish students free study in Scotland, even when Scots have to pay for study in Spain.

    When Scotland becomes independent, rUK students will have the status of EU students, and local students, so could study for free.

    One interesting consequence of Scottish independence could be the anglicisation of Scottish academia.

    At the moment fees for rUK students in Scotland are not capped at £9 000, and are usually more, so there is currently quite a penalty for studying north of the border.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited May 2013
    Sean_F said:

    Socrates, I think he was. He was no more competent than either, but less dignified. Hollande, however, is just hapless.

    At least he tried to take France in the right direction. And he wasn't corrupt or a Nazi collaborator.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    On the subject of loongate, does anyone give a toss about these stories anymore?

    The last one about plebs went on for six weeks and turned out to be completely made up. Do people really still lap up this rubbish?

    It's another broader narrative story though, surely? If true, of course.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @foxinsoxuk

    A very interesting point. Has anyone asked the SNP about their policy for higher education after independence?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Great stuff in the IPL with Adam Gilchrist retiring with a 100% strike rate as a bowler, That's right.

    0.1 Overs 1 wicket for 0.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    edited May 2013
    Carola said:

    It's another broader narrative story though, surely? If true, of course.

    Oh yeah the media narrative. Where they go on and on about one story to the exclusion of all others for over a month.

    And newspaper editors are probably scratching their heads as to why their numbers are falling.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    On the subject of loongate, does anyone give a toss about these stories anymore?

    The last one about plebs went on for six weeks and turned out to be completely made up. Do people really still lap up this rubbish?

    None of the wider public likely care, but then this is really about Conservatives who would rather risk torpedoing Cameron now because they hate him, at any cost to themselves, or else such stories would never get out or given so much weight.

  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2013
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    It's another broader narrative story though, surely? If true, of course.

    Oh yeah the media narrative. Where they go on and on about one story to the exclusion of all others for over a month.

    And newspaper editors are probably scratching their heads as to why their numbers are falling.
    You could say the same re why people are disengaged from politics.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    On the subject of loongate, does anyone give a toss about these stories anymore?

    The last one about plebs went on for six weeks and turned out to be completely made up. Do people really still lap up this rubbish?

    It wouldn't matter if the Cameroons weren't bleeding support to Ukip.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 36,885
    Socrates said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    A very interesting point. Has anyone asked the SNP about their policy for higher education after independence?

    You can be certain it will change for sure, charges will still apply unless you believe in fairies.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
    I agree, yes there are, and it's frustrating that they don't. (No need for the squealy 'but look what the other lot did though!' wiff-waff... that's another reason why meaningful political debate has died a death).

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 31,157
    Socrates, when you put it like that, I suppose you're right.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited May 2013
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
    I agree, yes there are, and it's frustrating that they don't. (No need for the squealy 'but look what the other lot did though!' wiff-waff... that's another reason why meaningful political debate has died a death).

    Well, look at the Thatcher/Major years too. It seemed like wall to wall sleaze compared to now.

    Are the Press simply lazy, or cowed by influence, and threats of legal action?

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Blimey. Just catching up with the NAHT conference. They're not known for that kind of kicking off.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    tim said:

    Isn't the fact that the Tory party has been taken over by a class based misogynist clique, contemptous of 99% of society a story?

    Thats why the newspapers led with this comment.

    Yes, it is important to get information like this out.

    Just like the papers led with Mitchell calling the Police a "pleb".

    Oh, wait.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    edited May 2013
    ConHome reports that Richard Ashworth and Marta Andreasen MEPs have failed re-selection in South East

    It' s not clear (to me) if they meant that they have failed automatic reselection to the top of the list or if they are totally out of the candidates' list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Next said:

    tim said:

    Isn't the fact that the Tory party has been taken over by a class based misogynist clique, contemptous of 99% of society a story?

    Thats why the newspapers led with this comment.

    Yes, it is important to get information like this out.

    Just like the papers led with Mitchell calling the Police a "pleb".

    Oh, wait.
    Quite so - there is a stench of just how desperate some people want this to be true about all this, such that even if it is, their political-arousal is a bit off putting for me; they're enjoying it too much.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
    I agree, yes there are, and it's frustrating that they don't. (No need for the squealy 'but look what the other lot did though!' wiff-waff... that's another reason why meaningful political debate has died a death).

    Well, look at the Thatcher/Major years too. It seemed like wall to wall sleaze compared to now.

    Are the Press simply lazy, or cowed by influence, and threats of legal action?

    I guess a lot of factors come into it; not least being that many journos are as unrepresentative of the people they 'serve' as the politicos.

  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    ConHome reports that Richard Ashworth and Marta Andreasen MEPs have failed re-selection in South East

    It' s not clear (to me) if they meant that they have failed automatic reselection to the top of the list or if they are totally out of the candidates' list.

    After a siesta: Wasn't Marta Andreasen chucked out of UKIP, then bad-mouthed the party and joined the Tories? If so, well deserved.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    tim said:

    Isn't the fact that the Tory party has been taken over by a class based misogynist clique, contemptous of 99% of society, a story?

    Thats why the newspapers led with this comment.

    Let's be honest, there's always some narrative or another about the Tory party, usually based around class or race. Whether you believed it or not you'd still be peddling it on here every day.

    I look at Cameron and while I'm not exactly pleased with what I see I just can't imagine that he hates women. It's just some boring made up tag that his opponents throw around hoping one of them will stick.

    In this case though you're looking at the polls, seeing that the Tories aren't doing well with women (mainly due to reduction in benefits to couples and less money being thrown at the public sector) and are assuming it's because your crappy line about him being a misogynist has struck gold.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    edited May 2013
    Hannan and Nirj Deva re-adopted.

    No mention of James Elles so far. I thought he was the one more at risk
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    malcolmg said:

    Socrates said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    A very interesting point. Has anyone asked the SNP about their policy for higher education after independence?

    You can be certain it will change for sure, charges will still apply unless you believe in fairies.
    In which case they will have to apply for Scottish students as well because as long as England and Scotland remain in the EU it will be illegal for the Scots to charge tuition fees to the English but not to the Scots.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Congratulations, TSE, on penning a piece that does full justice to the Eurovision phenomenon. But are you sure that Denmark are so justly hot favourites? The voting is only partially related to the quality of the performance or the song, with the artists like a puppet on a string for national preferences, with Cyprus and Greece being only the most obvious countries to give power to "all our friends", and well co-ordinated campaigns to beg, steal or borrow votes are often disgracefully successful. There's usually someone spring from out of nowhere like a jack in the box as well.

    But on one thing I'd be confident, that this will be a return to the bad old days where Britain finish rock bottom. Bonnie Tyler's entry just isn't good enough, and we'll see Britain take one step further to Eurovision oblivion.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    edited May 2013
    James Elles is retiring. That's why he wasn't mentioned anywhere. today.

    So

    Hannan and Deva re-adopted.
    Ashworth and Andreasen not re-adopted
    Elles retiring

    It may not be the end of the road for Ashworth and Andreasen. They should compete against newcomers now.
    BUt one available slot as 3 is the likely number of seats in SE right now
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776
    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
    I agree, yes there are, and it's frustrating that they don't. (No need for the squealy 'but look what the other lot did though!' wiff-waff... that's another reason why meaningful political debate has died a death).

    Well, look at the Thatcher/Major years too. It seemed like wall to wall sleaze compared to now.

    Are the Press simply lazy, or cowed by influence, and threats of legal action?

    I guess a lot of factors come into it; not least being that many journos are as unrepresentative of the people they 'serve' as the politicos.

    Some other potential aspects:
    1) Politicians are much more careful than they were; the rise of the professional politician also means that they have a less interesting backstory. Why embark on an affair if it might cost your career?
    2) The public generally care less than they used to if someone has an affair, or comes out of the closet.
    3) Politicians are becoming better at handling such scandals, e.g. the alleged home lives of Boris and Ken.
    4) Politicians no longer trust the media to keep certain stories quiet.

    Financial impropriety is the big thing, for me at least. That's why the expenses scandal was so important. But the media pushed that far too far.

    I'm finding it rather funny that the source of many of the anti-Tory stories in the Major years is now having a few little difficulties of his own. But I'm not sure that reference is obscure enough for the mods...
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    malcolmg said:

    Socrates said:

    @foxinsoxuk

    A very interesting point. Has anyone asked the SNP about their policy for higher education after independence?

    You can be certain it will change for sure, charges will still apply unless you believe in fairies.
    Presuming that rUK and Scotland remain in the EU (it is possible that either would be outside) under EU law the same rights and fees would apply to EU (therefore rUK) students as Scottish students. It would be illegal to discriminate against them in any way, overtly or covertly.

    Either Scotland would have to introduce fees for all students including their own, or would be paying for rUK students. It is quite possible that they may want to do the latter and thereby acquire a new group of immigrants, well educated and accustomed to Scottish ways. It may be a substantial English migration.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    tim said:

    Isn't the fact that the Tory party has been taken over by a class based misogynist clique, contemptous of 99% of society, a story?

    Thats why the newspapers led with this comment.

    Let's be honest, there's always some narrative or another about the Tory party, usually based around class or race. Whether you believed it or not you'd still be peddling it on here every day.

    I look at Cameron and while I'm not exactly pleased with what I see I just can't imagine that he hates women. It's just some boring made up tag that his opponents throw around hoping one of them will stick.

    In this case though you're looking at the polls, seeing that the Tories aren't doing well with women (mainly due to reduction in benefits to couples and less money being thrown at the public sector) and are assuming it's because your crappy line about him being a misogynist has struck gold.
    It's hard to believe a married man with 2 sisters and 2 daughters, brought up by a disabled father would hold prejudices against anyone, least of all women.

  • hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    UK to put forward Nick Clegg for Eurovision 2014. He will try anything once, even going into coalition with the swivel eyed loony party.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    Carola said:

    'Right, I now have a full account of what happened re. loongate. And I think no10 should tread very carefully indeed. This could get v messy.' oakeshot

    Are they saving it for the Sundays?

    Wasn't Oakeshott involved in the Huhne saga? Not sure she came out of that very well.
    Yep. But I don't think she's directly involved with this. I reckon the journos are talking to each other, but maybe keeping it back for a splash tomorrow.
    Aren't there any proper, juicy, political scandals for the Press to investigate anymore?

    Look back over the history of the previous administration as an example.

    http://iaindale.blogspot.co.uk/2006/04/top-50-or-so-labour-sleaze-scandals.html

    Surely things can't be as dull as they seem.
    I agree, yes there are, and it's frustrating that they don't. (No need for the squealy 'but look what the other lot did though!' wiff-waff... that's another reason why meaningful political debate has died a death).

    Well, look at the Thatcher/Major years too. It seemed like wall to wall sleaze compared to now.

    Are the Press simply lazy, or cowed by influence, and threats of legal action?

    I guess a lot of factors come into it; not least being that many journos are as unrepresentative of the people they 'serve' as the politicos.

    Some other potential aspects:
    1) Politicians are much more careful than they were; the rise of the professional politician also means that they have a less interesting backstory. Why embark on an affair if it might cost your career?
    2) The public generally care less than they used to if someone has an affair, or comes out of the closet.
    3) Politicians are becoming better at handling such scandals, e.g. the alleged home lives of Boris and Ken.
    4) Politicians no longer trust the media to keep certain stories quiet.

    Financial impropriety is the big thing, for me at least. That's why the expenses scandal was so important. But the media pushed that far too far.

    I'm finding it rather funny that the source of many of the anti-Tory stories in the Major years is now having a few little difficulties of his own. But I'm not sure that reference is obscure enough for the mods...

    I don't know that the public now 'care less' about being let down in whatever way by politicians etc. I think it's just that they expect to be.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,036
    Sean_F said:

    Loongate would just be laughed off if there was any mutual affection between Cameron and his circle, OTOH, and his party and voters on the other.

    But there isn't.

    What's the view of Hertfordshire / Bedfordshire Conservatives re Cameron and his circle ?

    It seems to me we're now locked in a spiral of open abuse within the Conservatives party.

    Which means it can't end well and the longer it continues the more damage the Conservatives will suffer.

    It may well be in the interests of the Conservatives to have an early general election before the leadership damages the party too much and before UKIP becomes any stronger.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    David Cameron is reasonably well liked by his voters. It's his party that is the problem. And it is the Conservative party that is the problem. On the subject of the EU and gay marriage, they are quite mad. It's not so much their views as the intensity with which they hold them.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,607

    What's the view of Hertfordshire / Bedfordshire Conservatives re Cameron and his circle ?

    It seems to me we're now locked in a spiral of open abuse within the Conservatives party.

    Which means it can't end well and the longer it continues the more damage the Conservatives will suffer.

    It may well be in the interests of the Conservatives to have an early general election before the leadership damages the party too much and before UKIP becomes any stronger.

    Rubbish. It's Cameron who is the one in touch with voters on gay marriage etc.

    The people who are damaging the Conservative Party's election prospects are those massively out of touch diehards who are determined to do everything to reduce the party's chances at the GE.

    But in fact I suspect most of this nonsense isn't going to matter one way or the other. When it comes to the crunch people won't vote on these trivial issues. And if Cameron does lose some diehard support it'll be in safe seats where it doesn't matter.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,036
    antifrank said:

    David Cameron is reasonably well liked by his voters. It's his party that is the problem. And it is the Conservative party that is the problem. On the subject of the EU and gay marriage, they are quite mad. It's not so much their views as the intensity with which they hold them.

    That's a fair point.

    But a sensible person tries not to meddle with someone else's 'intensity'.

    I suspect also that Cameron and his circle don't believe in anything (bar their own effortless superiority) so didn't understand what they were provoking.

    What we so often come back to when discussing Cameron is his lack of empathy to people different to himself and perhaps even worse that he can't even be bothered to pretend that he has some.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,607
    Most of the crying and screaming is being driven by religious people who cannot comprehend that the overwhelming majority of people do not want and will not accept religious views determining the laws of this country.

    Fact: 1% of people go to a C of E church on any Sunday.

    Their influence is completely gone but they cannot understand it let alone begin to accept it.

    Hence the every increasing hysteria as they become more and more desperate.

    Everyone else has moved on. It's a great shame that these people cannot accept it - they can't help thinking as they do. But they've lost - their influence is over.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    antifrank said:

    David Cameron is reasonably well liked by his voters. It's his party that is the problem. And it is the Conservative party that is the problem. On the subject of the EU and gay marriage, they are quite mad. It's not so much their views as the intensity with which they hold them.

    That's a fair point.

    But a sensible person tries not to meddle with someone else's 'intensity'.

    I suspect also that Cameron and his circle don't believe in anything (bar their own effortless superiority) so didn't understand what they were provoking.

    What we so often come back to when discussing Cameron is his lack of empathy to people different to himself and perhaps even worse that he can't even be bothered to pretend that he has some.

    Yet repeated polling shows that Dave is more popular than his party, more popular than rival party leaders and more popular than his rivals within the party.

    It would seem that voters do not believe he is arrogant or are not bothered if he is. Arrogance does not always lead to unpopularity. Many like a leader with a bit of a swagger.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @another_richard That is also a fair point. But in the long run, the Conservatives' problems will only be resolved by party members dialing down the intensity a bit. It's good for the politically-minded to have passion. But many on the right of politics behave like the swivel-eyed loons that we are assured number 10 did not describe Conservative activists as, but could have done quite legitimately.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,036
    " But in fact I suspect most of this nonsense isn't going to matter one way or the other. When it comes to the crunch people won't vote on these trivial issues. And if Cameron does lose some diehard support it'll be in safe seats where it doesn't matter. "

    Almost comical in willful ignorance.

    The increasing shrillness of the Cameron cheerleaders is revealing.

  • @TSE I thought the reason for such consistently lame entries to Eurovision is that the BBC don't want to risk winning & then having to host the damn thing. As the Irish found out by winning several times it ain't cheap.

    So after a near miss a couple years back (thanks for the reminder @sunil) they are just making sure we don't win.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MikeL said:

    Most of the crying and screaming is being driven by religious people who cannot comprehend that the overwhelming majority of people do not want and will not accept religious views determining the laws of this country.

    Fact: 1% of people go to a C of E church on any Sunday.

    Their influence is completely gone but they cannot understand it let alone begin to accept it.

    Hence the every increasing hysteria as they become more and more desperate.

    Everyone else has moved on. It's a great shame that these people cannot accept it - they can't help thinking as they do. But they've lost - their influence is over.

    I dont think the C of E is the problem; it has many gay clergy who are likely to be sympathetic to gay marriage. Indeed if it becomes law I expect pressure to allow willing clergy to celebrate gay marriages.

    It would be the fundamentalist and Catholic churches, as well as the laity of various denominations who object. Many Muslims and other faiths may well also object.

    Like many Christians I am completely relaxed about gay marriage. God knows his own, and can tell the sheep from goats. The book of Matthew is clear that many will be surprised how they are judged, surprised in both directions that is!
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Standby for Comres/mirror poll with a) mixed news for ed m b) bad news for Cameron c) v good news for Farage.' brant
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 6,607

    I dont think the C of E is the problem; it has many gay clergy who are likely to be sympathetic to gay marriage. Indeed if it becomes law I expect pressure to allow willing clergy to celebrate gay marriages.

    It would be the fundamentalist and Catholic churches, as well as the laity of various denominations who object. Many Muslims and other faiths may well also object.

    Like many Christians I am completely relaxed about gay marriage. God knows his own, and can tell the sheep from goats. The book of Matthew is clear that many will be surprised how they are judged, surprised in both directions that is!

    Yes - I'm sure you're right - there are many people in the C of E who are perfectly reasonable.

    What I am saying is that almost all the people screaming are religious and doing it for religious reasons. I'm not saying everyone who is religious is doing this.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,662
    I gather than the following Tory MEPs have been reselected today or last weekend:

    Emma McClarkin (East Midlands)
    Marina Yannakoudakis (London)
    Sayed Kamall (London)
    Charles Tannock (London)
    Saj Karim (North West)
    Jacqueline Foster (North West)
    Julie Girling (Souht West)
    Ashley Fox (South West)
    Kay Swinburne (Wales)
    Philip Charles Bradbourn (West Midlands)
    Anthea McIntyre (West Midlands)
    Daniel Hannan (South East)
    Nirj Deva (South East)


    The following MEPs are retiring

    Struan Stevenson (Scotland)
    Sir Robert Atkins (North West England)
    Giles Chichester (South West England and Gibraltar)
    Robert Sturdy (East of England)
    James Elles (South East)

    The electoral college in Yorkshire meets next Saturday. I don't have a clue on East and North East.

    Out of the 13 reselected MEPs so far, 12 are basically guaranteed re-election next year unless there's a total Tory collapse. They will likely lose 1 of the London 3 .


  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    tim said:

    tim said:

    Isn't the fact that the Tory party has been taken over by a class based misogynist clique, contemptous of 99% of society, a story?

    Thats why the newspapers led with this comment.

    Let's be honest, there's always some narrative or another about the Tory party, usually based around class or race. Whether you believed it or not you'd still be peddling it on here every day.

    I look at Cameron and while I'm not exactly pleased with what I see I just can't imagine that he hates women. It's just some boring made up tag that his opponents throw around hoping one of them will stick.

    In this case though you're looking at the polls, seeing that the Tories aren't doing well with women (mainly due to reduction in benefits to couples and less money being thrown at the public sector) and are assuming it's because your crappy line about him being a misogynist has struck gold.

    Cameron 'should have anti-sexist training'

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4825150/PM-David-Cameron-recommended-to-have-anti-sexist-training.html

    Diane James, the Ukip candidate.She stopped voting Tory in 2010 because she felt David Cameron patronises women

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2013/mar/01/eastleigh-byelection-result-michael-white

    Cameron apologises to women

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15141362

    Maria Hutchings is a local mother, with four children. I don’t know whether that information means much to you, but David Cameron is convinced it does. Today he visited Eastleigh in Hampshire to urge people to vote for Mrs Hutchings in the by-election. And his message was clear.
    “Maria,” he told 1,300 staff at B&Q head office, “is a local mother.” She was “a mother of four children”, he added, a few minutes later. “A local mother, with four children,” he reminded them, a minute after that. “Local mum, four kids,” he summarised.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9871078/Sketch-Mums-the-word-for-David-Cameron.html


    Yeah great you've found a couple of stories. It's still a load of old rubbish though isn't it?

    I mean a UKIP candidate who you probably would otherwise dismiss as a complete fruitloop criticises Cameron and you're all over it.

    And can you remember the last male politician that hasn't upset some womens group or another? I seem to remember Blair getting slow hand clapped by a load of old bags even at the height of his popularity. Brown got similar stories after his comment about Gillian Duffy as well.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352

    MikeL said:

    Most of the crying and screaming is being driven by religious people who cannot comprehend that the overwhelming majority of people do not want and will not accept religious views determining the laws of this country.

    Fact: 1% of people go to a C of E church on any Sunday.

    Their influence is completely gone but they cannot understand it let alone begin to accept it.

    Hence the every increasing hysteria as they become more and more desperate.

    Everyone else has moved on. It's a great shame that these people cannot accept it - they can't help thinking as they do. But they've lost - their influence is over.

    I dont think the C of E is the problem; it has many gay clergy who are likely to be sympathetic to gay marriage. Indeed if it becomes law I expect pressure to allow willing clergy to celebrate gay marriages.

    It would be the fundamentalist and Catholic churches, as well as the laity of various denominations who object. Many Muslims and other faiths may well also object.

    Like many Christians I am completely relaxed about gay marriage. God knows his own, and can tell the sheep from goats. The book of Matthew is clear that many will be surprised how they are judged, surprised in both directions that is!
    In which case you misunderstand the law. There can be no pressure to allow CofE clergy, howeveer sympathetic they are, to officiate over gay marriages because the law expressly states that the CofE are not only exempt but forbidden from conducting gay marriages.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    @TSE I thought the reason for such consistently lame entries to Eurovision is that the BBC don't want to risk winning & then having to host the damn thing. As the Irish found out by winning several times it ain't cheap.

    So after a near miss a couple years back (thanks for the reminder @sunil) they are just making sure we don't win.

    To win you do need to have cross europe appeal, it is rather arrogant to assume that just because British music is popular that we will win. Bearing in mind the number of countries entering we do win more often than chance would suggest.

    There is room for something original (rember Lordi?) but it does need to be entertaining, and for all their lack of talent Jedward are entertaining. British entries are often just too formulaic. If we had a selection by public vote it would be like X factor,
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119

    antifrank said:

    David Cameron is reasonably well liked by his voters. It's his party that is the problem. And it is the Conservative party that is the problem. On the subject of the EU and gay marriage, they are quite mad. It's not so much their views as the intensity with which they hold them.

    That's a fair point.

    But a sensible person tries not to meddle with someone else's 'intensity'.

    I suspect also that Cameron and his circle don't believe in anything (bar their own effortless superiority) so didn't understand what they were provoking.

    What we so often come back to when discussing Cameron is his lack of empathy to people different to himself and perhaps even worse that he can't even be bothered to pretend that he has some.

    Yet repeated polling shows that Dave is more popular than his party, more popular than rival party leaders and more popular than his rivals within the party.

    It would seem that voters do not believe he is arrogant or are not bothered if he is. Arrogance does not always lead to unpopularity. Many like a leader with a bit of a swagger.
    And hence the desperate attempts to get something to stick. It was Flashman a few years ago I seem to remember and an empty PR suit before that.
This discussion has been closed.