Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » July’s Issues Index has immigration and the economy down –

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited July 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » July’s Issues Index has immigration and the economy down – but health, crime and the international situation all showing increases

Immigration down 3% in @IpsosMORI Issues Index but still the main concen. Health up 3 & Crime up 4 pic.twitter.com/7pEci2lB9q

Read the full story here


«1

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    First.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Sorry Morris complete and utter rot from you FPT re: Royal Mail.

    Selling quid coins for 50p is wasting money. The government liquified an asset and sold it for a price well below its market rate. If that's not wasting money I don't know what is.
  • FPT
    SeanT said:

    Er, Nazism, Stalinism and Maoism were nothing to do with religion per se, yet their horrors were far far worse.

    It is strongly arguable that Marxism and Nazism were religions, or at least functioned in ways very similar to religions. The new Caliphate is at least nominally tolerant of religious minorities, provided they surrender peacefully to the state, pay the jizya and accept dhimmi status. Various of the Islamic State's propaganda outlets even claim that the dawla has deployed armed guards to protect Christian churches.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    SeanT said:

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    The ISIS-FGM story is now apparently being dismissed as fake. Who would fake that?

    Cui bono?

    A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

    The fact people believed it says more about ISIS.
  • Seems about right. The World does seem a little more dangerous at the minute. I'm personally a bit more worried about unemployment at the minute, though!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2014
    SeanT said:

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    The ISIS-FGM story is now apparently being dismissed as fake. Who would fake that?

    The claim has been attributed to the United Nations, so should be easy to confirm or deny.

    We just have to wait until the UN says otherwise.
  • audreyanneaudreyanne Posts: 1,376
    In a moment of rare female vanity I thought I would re-post this, if only on the grounds that it took me a minute to type and it will be forever lost.

    I think another interesting thread would be along the lines of 'When Voters do Fear.' Although negative campaigning appears to have less impact in the UK than US, if a fear meme takes hold it can be enough to swing an election. It is arguably far more powerful than the flip-side thread of voters not doing gratitude. Two examples in my lifetime particularly stand out:

    1992 Kinnock and Labour's tax bombshell. This was one of the greatest turnarounds in election history. Really and truly the Conservatives should have lost 1992. They were out of steam, starting to look sleazy and tired and it was time for a change. The negative attacks about Labour tax plans combined with the personal assault on Kinnock, especially by the right-wing red-tops were sufficient to scare enough people back to the Tories. Who will ever forget that infamous Sun front page? http://sunheadlines.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/classics-if-kinnock-wins-please-turn.html

    1983 Less stark but still effective was the attack on Michael Foot's Labour. The fear of god and just about everything else was sent into the electorate, portraying the prospect of a Labour victory as tantamount to surrendering to the Soviet Union. Although infamously described as 'the longest suicide note in history,' the 1983 Labour manifesto was probably not as left-wing as portrayed. Oh, and he wasn't really wearing a donkey jacket either :)http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/7361078/Michael-Foot-and-the-donkey-jacket-that-wasnt.html

    Can anyone think of others where negative campaigning has been highly effective? I ask particularly because, trust me, the Conservatives will go for the jugular on this. Labour stuffed up the UK economy. Brown managed to squander just about everything, including our gold reserves. Combine that with a 'weirdo' (not my word) at the helm and you can bet that Fear will be used as a highly effective weapon next year. It is one of the reasons I am certain the Conservatives will have an outright victory.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town
    You missed out "capitalism".
    A religion that says, that only by grabbing ever more, can mankind eventually live in peace and harmony.
    I don't want to get into a religious debate here, but it is batshit insane!
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited July 2014
    Not surprised given the situation in eastern europe and the middle east.

    By the way the US economy is close to one of my preffered overheating gauges with jobless claims plumetting way bellow 300k to 284k, an 8 year low.

    If the bubble pops again the UK is in a much worse situation that before the previous crisis, with a current account deficit and debt having gone sky high it needs every penny of foreign money to plug the gap (bad timing to scare russian money away).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Shocking! Matt joins Salmond brings politics into the Commonwealth games:

    www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    Got to love the Met.

    The Met Police collected information on 18 justice campaigns - including that of Jean Charles de Menezes - a report into a now defunct unit has said.

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28459711

  • Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town
    You missed out "capitalism".
    A religion that says, that only by grabbing ever more, can mankind eventually live in peace and harmony.
    I don't want to get into a religious debate here, but it is batshit insane!

    "Capitalism" (if, indeed, it can be defined) does not consist of, and cannot be defined as 'grabbing ever more'. There was a time, of course, when the advocates of "scientific socialism", who lauded material and technological expansion, claimed it to be a more efficient "mode of production" than "capitalism".
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    Life_ina_market_town

    What is the efficiency increase of the latest Iphone over the previous model?
    On paper, the specs look better, but when most people don't even use the max of the previous version, it is a marketing exercise, that is a waste of resources.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The Sun must really have it in for ukip... Here is Nigel's column in today's edition

    pic.twitter.com/Br5stsZW2K
  • Smarmeron said:

    Life_ina_market_town

    What is the efficiency increase of the latest Iphone over the previous model?
    On paper, the specs look better, but when most people don't even use the max of the previous version, it is a marketing exercise, that is a waste of resources.

    Is the implication here that a state body ought to decide what people "need", and which of their demands are "wasteful", and ration "resources" accordingly?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Speedy said:

    and debt having gone sky high

    What debt has increased ? Evidence please.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Isam

    Boo hoo. More like propping up the Tories in government for five long years, that might have had something to do with it.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town

    No, what I am pointing at is the fact we stopped seeing value because we are blinded by a brand (or model).
    I am not arguing for a state lead system, just a calm appraisal of what capitalism, is and does, and it's possible faults and strengths.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    and its possible faults and strengths.

    One is tempted to paraphrase Churchill's comments on democracy, ie Capitalism is the worst possible system, apart from all the others.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    No, what I am pointing at is the fact we stopped seeing value because we are blinded by a brand (or model).
    I am not arguing for a state lead system, just a calm appraisal of what capitalism, is and does, and it's possible faults and strengths.

    Oh, you are rehashing the thesis of that charlatan J.K. Galbraith's The Affluent Society. Goods and services only have value because people want to buy them.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited July 2014
    @Life_ina_market_town

    Not really, I am equally interested in other views on capitalism's strengths and weaknesses.

    Obviously, as it isn't really a religion, no one could think it was infallible?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    Not really, I am equally interested in other views on capitalism's strengths and weaknesses.

    Obviously, as it isn't really a religion, no one could think it was infallible?

    Capitalism is much more avoidable than socialism if you don't agree with it - for that it wins hands down.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    Not really, I am equally interested in other views on capitalism's strengths and weaknesses.

    Obviously, as it isn't really a religion, no one could think it was infallible?

    Old bean, on the last thread when I posted a comment about all the warnings Labour/Gordon Brown received about the deficit you replied with

    "Look at all the warnings Thatcher received?"

    Can you give me some examples of those warnings Thatcher received from such as the IMF or OECD, I listed some of the warnings Brown received.

    Thanks in advance.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    TGOHF

    'Capitalism is much more avoidable than socialism if you don't agree with it"

    You are conflating "socialism and dictatorship" Harry.
  • Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    Not really, I am equally interested in other views on capitalism's strengths and weaknesses.

    Obviously, as it isn't really a religion, no one could think it was infallible?

    Well, if you start by providing a definition of "capitalism", there could be a sensible discussion. I rather get the feeling that in a century's time, somebody will write the equivalent of E.A.R. Brown's magisterial article, 'The Tyranny of a Construct: Feudalism and Historians of Medieval Europe', [AHR, 79(4), (1974), pp. 1063-1088] but in respect of the use of "capitalism" today. Brown ended with a plea now followed by all serious medieval historians:
    The tyrant feudalism must be declared once and for all deposed and its influence over students of the Middle Ages finally ended. Perhaps in its downfall it will carry with it those other obdurate isms-manorial, scholastic, and human-that have dominated for far too long the investigation of medieval life and thought.
    "Capitalism" is an ahistorical category invented by Marxian political economists.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town

    Capitalism started when we climbed down from the trees, and found another forest full of less evolved apes to dominate. (The fail point here is the apes in the other forrest thought the same about them)
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.

    If the Brownlee brothers tow a Scotsman all the way to the podium, what does that do for Better Together?
  • Smarmeron said:

    Capitalism started when we climbed down from the trees, and found another forest full of less evolved apes to dominate. (The fail point here is the apes in the other forrest thought the same about them)

    Meaningless verbiage.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.

    If the Brownlee brothers tow a Scotsman all the way to the podium, what does that do for Better Together?
    4th so far in the triathlon is Mark Austin, a Glasgow-reared Scot. If the brothers can get him on the podium it would be great news - lets leave the politics out this ; )
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496
    Scott_P said:

    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.

    If the Brownlee brothers tow a Scotsman all the way to the podium, what does that do for Better Together?
    You do not get any better , what a saddo.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,496

    Scott_P said:

    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.

    If the Brownlee brothers tow a Scotsman all the way to the podium, what does that do for Better Together?
    4th so far in the triathlon is Mark Austin, a Glasgow-reared Scot. If the brothers can get him on the podium it would be great news - lets leave the politics out this ; )
    It is not politics it is sheer stupidity, he is a cretin.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Life_ina_market_town
    That would depend on how they reacted? Would they fight, steal, trade?
    The world hasn't really changed that much over the years has it?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    No, what I am pointing at is the fact we stopped seeing value because we are blinded by a brand (or model).
    I am not arguing for a state lead system, just a calm appraisal of what capitalism, is and does, and it's possible faults and strengths.

    'Value' is an intangible concept. What one person 'values' is not the same as what another 'values'.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    O/T An excellent cartoon from Alex today

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/

    Alex gets very few mentions on this site, which I find rather odd
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    In addition it's only because capitalism has been so successful that we can afford to be so flippant as a society and attach 'value' to things like being cool, or to brands.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    Telegraph - "News is coming through that a Kenyan was lapped in the loch in the Men's Triathlon ... because he was performing breaststroke. Oh dear."

    Every games should have an 'Eddie the Eagle' or an 'Eric the eel' - audiences lov'em.

    If the Brownlee brothers tow a Scotsman all the way to the podium, what does that do for Better Together?
    4th so far in the triathlon is Mark Austin, a Glasgow-reared Scot. If the brothers can get him on the podium it would be great news - lets leave the politics out this ; )
    It is not politics it is sheer stupidity, he is a cretin.
    True MrG - but he does go to great lengths to keep you diverted and entertained. ; )
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Slackbladder
    Yes, used in that way, "value" can only bee seen from the corner of your eye, you know it is there but it always seems to move.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Life_ina_market_town

    Capitalism started when we climbed down from the trees, and found another forest full of less evolved apes to dominate. (The fail point here is the apes in the other forrest thought the same about them)

    Capitalism as I see it does have a tendency, in an unfettered form, to accumulate wealth to a few. If this goes too far resentment will build up rightly or wrongly, hence some form of "social market capitalism" is required if only to redistribute to those that cannot help themselves (e.g .the sick, disabled, elderly).

    Socialism's central issue (as I see it) is the further you go down the route of redistribution the less incentive there is for an individual to do anything, which results in the collective losing out too. Essentially, "why bother flogging myself to death if they're going to take it off me anyway?"

    I always like the example of the Trabant v the Golf. The Times ran an obit last year of the Trabant's chief engineer (a Party man apparently and brilliant engineer) which stated in the early 50's the East German minister in charge expressly stopped development of the Trabant (much to this chap's chagrin) saying it was "good enough". No alternative cars to speak of course in the GDR system so zip forward to 1989 and the average East German was waiting 10 years (average age of first car was at 40), to buy something less safe, less fast, less comfortable, less environmental, and less reliable than the average West German who on average acquired a car at 28 (with no waiting list). That average car was a Golf.

    Now I know they'll be arguments that East Germany wasn't truly "socialist" or whatever, but the evolution of the Beetle to the Golf 1952ish - 1989 and beyond was driven by the greed for more (yes let's get it out there and be proud of it) and fear of going bust of VW's shareholders. But what would you rather drive your family in, a Trabant or a Golf?

    I'm all for equality of opportunity, and yes I want those that are genuinely unable to be helped - and (generously too) but equality of outcome creates problems far worse as I see it, I'm afraid.

    I'd be all for socialism if it worked.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    TGOHF

    'Capitalism is much more avoidable than socialism if you don't agree with it"

    You are conflating "socialism and dictatorship" Harry.

    So if Labour get in can I avoid their higher taxes as I don't want to contribute to more "fairness" ?

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Slackbladder

    Every year, more people, consuming more resources from a finite stock.
    This idea might need just a little tinkering round the edges?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Slackbladder

    Every year, more people, consuming more resources from a finite stock.
    This idea might need just a little tinkering round the edges?

    More condoms?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @welshowl
    "More condoms."
    Free at the point of use I hope? :-)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    No wonder the voters are calm about the economy

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 3m
    IMF upgrades UK growth forecast more than any other world economy to 3.2% in 2014 and 2.7% in 2015

  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Smarmeron said:

    @welshowl
    "More condoms."
    Free at the point of use I hope? :-)

    Yes, of course :-) Might draw the line at recycling mind.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Slackbladder

    Every year, more people, consuming more resources from a finite stock.
    This idea might need just a little tinkering round the edges?

    Well pretty much any economic system since we stopped being hunter gatherers has been doing that.

    The system isn't infinitely sustainable, but then no system is because the earth is a finite resource.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @Slackbladder

    Every year, more people, consuming more resources from a finite stock.
    This idea might need just a little tinkering round the edges?

    Comrade, back in the 19th century a chap looked at the amount of food that could be produced and the rate at which population was expanding and demonstrated, using numbers and everything, that mass starvation was inevitable. He was of course wrong because he forgot about or didn't understand human ingenuity.

    Secondly, the number of people on the planet will not continue to increase every year. The number of children has probably peaked and so the number of adults will plateau over the coming couple of decades. How to deal with that is going to test our ingenuity far more than some idea that we will run out of resources.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @welshowl
    "Yes, of course :-) Might draw the line at recycling mind."

    Apparently the early army ones were "reusable" No wonder they all got the clap?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    I'll be glad when this damned humidity ends.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Smarmeron said:

    @Slackbladder

    Every year, more people, consuming more resources from a finite stock.
    This idea might need just a little tinkering round the edges?

    Dan Brown and inferno makes a very interesting novel based on how to control the future,it explores the issue in great detail,well worth a read.


  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HurstLlama

    The drive forward in agricultural yields was, and is driven by the petro -chemical industry, too supply that need we need to recover resources at ever greater expense, and what makes you think the worlds population will stabilize?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    How to deal with that is going to test our ingenuity far more than some idea that we will run out of resources.

    Quite. Plus scientists are reasonably close to developing treatments that won;t just stop ageing, but actually reverse it.

    This will be a huge challenge going forward.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    taffys said:

    How to deal with that is going to test our ingenuity far more than some idea that we will run out of resources.

    Quite. Plus scientists are reasonably close to developing treatments that won;t just stop ageing, but actually reverse it.

    This will be a huge challenge going forward.

    Logan's Run... it's only a matter of time ;)
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited July 2014


    Secondly, the number of people on the planet will not continue to increase every year.

    It does under the UN's central projections up to 2100. Though the pace gets quite slow towards the middle / end of the projection period. And the peak is still under 11 billion rather than the 20 or so billion HD2 used to forecast here.

    On low fertility assumptions we'll have fewer people in 2100 than we had in 2010.

    On high assumptions we go to 16 billion and beyond by 2100.

    Quite a degree of uncertainty there ;)
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    and what makes you think the worlds population will stabilize?

    I think it was Bill Gates who recently said there will be no poor countries at all in 30 years time. Nightmare for Oxfam. Of course its capitalism that will do this, not some idiot waving a placard about 'make poverty history'

    As soon as countries stop being poor, their birth rates fall precipitously. That's virtually a cast iron rule.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    The drive forward in agricultural yields was, and is driven by the petro -chemical industry, too supply that need we need to recover resources at ever greater expense, and what makes you think the worlds population will stabilize?


    GM crops will help - as soon as the luddites stop blocking the dinners of 3rd world peoples.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited July 2014
    @Slackbladder
    Can we draw the line well before "Soylent Green"?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    Voters on the environment: More renewables? Yes! More nuclear? Yeah, ish. Reduce consumption? Hmm, maybe. Fracking? Blah. Stop wind farms on land? No!

    I paraphrase (and the above are priorities rather than absolute answers, details are here:

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1235/renewableuk-energy-priorities-poll.htm

    The last 3 questions are peculiar, since they require knowledge of Conservative views on wind farms and can be answered identically by supporters and opponents of wind farms and/or Tories.In general it's rather a badly-designed poll, with table on "What is the voters' 5th priority?" etc. But as usual it does show people remaining quite pro-green.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Looking very good for the Brownlee boys in the triathlon - Brownlee Major is leading in the cycling, Brownlee Minor in the leading pack along with him and they've now broken clear of Marc Austin.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    I think it was Bill Gates who recently said there will be no poor countries at all in 30 years time. Nightmare for Oxfam.

    What is it with pbc and this hatred of Oxfam?! Bizarre.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Neil, the UN also forecast continually rising temperatures.

    Somebody linked to an interesting statistical video a few months ago, suggesting, as per Mr. Llama's post, that rates of childbirth have stabilised and that the population will grow for a while longer but stabilise in the not too distant future.

    People always seem determined to find an apocalypse. Bird flu. SARS. Swine flu (that was actually a pandemic, apparently). Global warming.

    Mr. Llama, could be wrong, but was it Malthus who came up with the J-curve?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Smarmeron said:

    @Slackbladder
    Can we draw the line well before "Soylent Green"?

    Too late:

    http://www.soylent.me/
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983

    Mr. Neil, the UN also forecast continually rising temperatures.

    Feel free to come up with your own population projections then!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Voters on the environment: More renewables? Yes! More nuclear? Yeah, ish. Reduce consumption? Hmm, maybe. Fracking? Blah. Stop wind farms on land? No!

    I paraphrase (and the above are priorities rather than absolute answers, details are here:

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1235/renewableuk-energy-priorities-poll.htm

    The last 3 questions are peculiar, since they require knowledge of Conservative views on wind farms and can be answered identically by supporters and opponents of wind farms and/or Tories.In general it's rather a badly-designed poll, with table on "What is the voters' 5th priority?" etc. But as usual it does show people remaining quite pro-green.

    I see ukip have appointed a health spokesman with the brief of countering the labour lie that they want to charge for the nhs... Take note and pass it on old chap
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    PM: IMF says UK is fastest growing major economy in the world this year. There is more to do but #LongTermEconomicPlan is working.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    Voters on the environment: More renewables? Yes! More nuclear? Yeah, ish. Reduce consumption? Hmm, maybe. Fracking? Blah. Stop wind farms on land? No!

    I paraphrase (and the above are priorities rather than absolute answers, details are here:

    http://www.comres.co.uk/poll/1235/renewableuk-energy-priorities-poll.htm

    The last 3 questions are peculiar, since they require knowledge of Conservative views on wind farms and can be answered identically by supporters and opponents of wind farms and/or Tories.In general it's rather a badly-designed poll, with table on "What is the voters' 5th priority?" etc. But as usual it does show people remaining quite pro-green.

    Didn't dissect the back tables of the poll but (genuine question) does it ask are they pro green if "more green energy means you electric bill goes up by X"? Don't get me wrong I think we need a mix, but asking half a question without the downside is like "do you want more spending on health and education?" (yes we all chorus), without asking "are you individually prepared to pay more for that extra"?
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Looking very good for the Brownlee boys in the triathlon - Brownlee Major is leading in the cycling, Brownlee Minor in the leading pack along with him and they've now broken clear of Marc Austin.

    Telegraph - "It's a straight brother-on-brother battle in the triathlon, the Brownlee lads are streets ahead of the field."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Neil, ha, it's a fair comment. Far easier to criticise others than come up with your own ideas.

    The chap (Swedish stats man, I think) who made the video I referred to earlier reckoned population would rise but not dangerously so, and would then stabilise. I'm not prone to worrying about various imagined apocalyptic scenarios.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @TGOHF

    They might try genetically modifying bananas? One variety, (essentially a clone) makes up most of the worlds production.
    Sometimes mono cultures can have downsides as well as up?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited July 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    The drive forward in agricultural yields was, and is driven by the petro -chemical industry, too supply that need we need to recover resources at ever greater expense, and what makes you think the worlds population will stabilize?

    What makes me think that the population will not keep on growing? Well my first degree was in mathematics (I got a 2:1 but wasn't clever enough to become a professional mathematician), so I am quite good with numbers and statistics. If you look at birthrates across the world then you will see that the number of babies per woman in declining to the point where replacement will become an issue, yes even in the so-called third world.

    Look, rather than me trying to explain it, pour yourself a nice cup of tea, sit back an watch this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSGoqw45tKI

    You will enjoy it and it will change your view on several issues.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    PM offers resignation:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28457737

    [In Ukraine, obviously].
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HurstLlama

    I feel fairly sure the birthrate in some countries is staying relatively on the high side for religious/cultural reasons? The opposite of China where they had the "one child" policy?
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Smarmeron said:


    I feel fairly sure the birthrate in some countries is staying relatively on the high side for religious/cultural reasons?

    Which countries?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT

    There is a perfect irony about Israeli policy, which while lesser in extent, does have some striking historical precedents.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    taffys said:

    and what makes you think the worlds population will stabilize?

    I think it was Bill Gates who recently said there will be no poor countries at all in 30 years time. Nightmare for Oxfam. Of course its capitalism that will do this, not some idiot waving a placard about 'make poverty history'

    As soon as countries stop being poor, their birth rates fall precipitously. That's virtually a cast iron rule.

    It would be interesting to know where we would now be if people hadn't started waving placards and holding unfettered capitalism to some kind of account.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    'Just curious'.

    As many as it takes to stop Hamas firing rockets?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    taffys said:

    'Just curious'.

    As many as it takes to stop Hamas firing rockets?

    Did you have a number in mind, or just keep on doing it until the rockets stop?

    On a related note.

    Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 5 mins
    Can't have people humanized: Israeli agency bans radio clip naming children killed in Gaza http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-gaza-conflict-2014/1.606908 … (via @medialens)
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Neil
    Afghanistan,Somalia, in fact almost every country where the parents insurance in old age is their children, or where their religion encourages them to multiply?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Neil said:

    Smarmeron said:


    I feel fairly sure the birthrate in some countries is staying relatively on the high side for religious/cultural reasons?

    Which countries?
    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2127rank.html

    notably it is African countries at the top of the fertility index, particularly muslim ones and that the other end of the table is the wealthier end. There are exceptions such as Ukraine and Albania at the low fertility end. The best correlation with low fertility is female education. It also strongly predicts economic development:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_impact_of_female_education

    It is because of the barriers to female education that some parts of the world will remain disproportionally poor and overcrowded. These are often muslim countries thus generating significant pressures on international peace.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    I feel fairly sure the birthrate in some countries is staying relatively on the high side for religious/cultural reasons? The opposite of China where they had the "one child" policy?

    "I feel fairly sure..."

    You haven't watched the video have you? I didn't dig it out and recommend it to you for the sake of my health. By continuing to post on this subject on the basis of your beliefs when there are the facts one click away just makes you look a complete twat.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Taffys,

    "Quite. Plus scientists are reasonably close to developing treatments that won;t just stop ageing, but actually reverse it."

    Sorry, but I don't think so. Cell division will eventually kill - to go back and right errors in replication isn't really feasible. Clonal cells can possibly replace in some circumstances, but they will still have to replicate. And there lies the dangers.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    England’s Alistair Brownlee wins Commonwealth Gold - to add to his Olympic title.

    Younger brother looks set to take Silver. He does.
  • SeanT said:

    Israel has now shelled a school being used as a shelter, killing 15.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28468526

    I've a question fior Israel's defenders on here. Do they have a limit to the Palestinian deaths they will tolerate as Israel exercises its right to "self defence"? Is there a line that even Israel must not cross? What is it? 500 dead Gazan children? 5000? 50,000?

    Or can Israel kill literally everyone in Gaza, as the most moral army in the world exercises inhuman restraint?

    Just curious.

    It's amazing just how blasé Israel is about non combatant deaths. I'm all for Israel defending itself, and understand that going on the offensive makes it easier to do that, but it's sickening that we don't call them to account more vociferously on it.

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @BobaFett

    'Selling quid coins for 50p is wasting money. The government liquified an asset and sold it for a price well below its market rate. If that's not wasting money I don't know what is.'

    In 2007 alone the Royal Mail received a £1.7 billion taxpayer subsidy.
    ..
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited July 2014
    Did you have a number in mind, or just keep on doing it until the rockets stop?

    Sorry, was that question aimed at the Palestinian government or the Israeli one? The Palestinians after all, control the rockets.

    The Palestinian government has to be a candidate for the most irresponsible in history. They have for a number of years attacked a vastly superior power with no thought whatever to what might happen to their citizens if that power turned nasty.

    Its a bit like a man looking after a large family prodding a bear with a stick.

    Incidentally, we are no country to lecture anyone on the correct reaction to the indiscriminate killing of our citizens by unmanned rockets.

    When the Germans fired V1s and V2s at us we turned their cities to rubble.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    Smarmeron said:

    @Neil
    Afghanistan,Somalia, in fact almost every country where the parents insurance in old age is their children, or where their religion encourages them to multiply?

    Yes, poor countries have high birthrates; that's almost an iron law of demography. Your point was surely that some countries retained high birth rates even after the demographic transition model would have predicted they would fall? My question was which countries you had in mind. If that wasnt your point I'm struggling to see what your point was. The fact that Afghanistan or Somalia currently have high birth rates doesnt invalidate anything HL has said (or undermine the UN's central population projections).

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. CD13, lobsters have a chemical which prevents reduction of the old polynucleotide chain (which causes ageing). If we could work out how to use that, we could halt ageing.

    Stem cells may also be able to revitalise the cells already aged.

    But, all things have their season.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Incidentally, Mr. Llama's video is well worth a watch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    taffys said:

    Scientists are reasonably close to developing treatments that won;t just stop ageing, but actually reverse it.

    Are you sure ?!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @SO

    I never cease to be amazed by the opprobrium the Right reserve for those that campaign for a better world.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Nice to have it in writing.

    See my answer to Mlacolm G.

    By the way, if an Islamic Militant device slightly damaged a bus stop in Primrose Hill, I guess you'd just be laughing that off.

    Those crazy Islamists!!!...what will they think of next!!!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    How many did we kill in Dresden ?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    UKIP reshuffle almost completed:
    http://www.ukip.org/
    taffys said:

    'Just curious'.

    As many as it takes to stop Hamas firing rockets?

    This is getting absurd. Already 2 UN controlled schools have been found to have their cellars packed with rocket and weapons that Hamas uses, to fire from the schools and the direct vicinity.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:
    Right I'll say it once more. Pour yourself a nice cup of tea (or whatever you prefer), sit back and watch that video. I guarantee you will enjoy it. Once you have watched it then come back to me.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Neil said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @Neil
    Afghanistan,Somalia, in fact almost every country where the parents insurance in old age is their children, or where their religion encourages them to multiply?

    Yes, poor countries have high birthrates; that's almost an iron law of demography. Your point was surely that some countries retained high birth rates even after the demographic transition model would have predicted they would fall? My question was which countries you had in mind. If that wasnt your point I'm struggling to see what your point was. The fact that Afghanistan or Somalia currently have high birth rates doesnt invalidate anything HL has said (or undermine the UN's central population projections).

    What is the birth rate expressed as number of children per woman in Bangladesh then, Mr Neil. Bangladesh, poor country, so how many children per woman?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    I never cease to be amazed by the opprobrium the Right reserve for those that campaign for a better world.

    Really Boba, it infantilises the debate when you say such things. SouthamObserver is an intelligent bloke from what he posts on here, but he does it too with his "deliberate misunderstanding" act when he disagrees with someone. For instance if someone said what you just had about "the left" I am confident one of you pair would be on demanding a precise definition of what "the left" is

    Tiresome

    You can't honestly believe that people of different political persuasions in this middle of the road country aren't in it to make the world better?
This discussion has been closed.