We've decided to start clamping down a bit on insults etc. I missed the first one earlier but you've now repeated it recently on the last thread. Tone it down.
We've decided to start clamping down a bit on insults etc. I missed the first one earlier but you've now repeated it recently on the last thread. Tone it down.
out of the first 8 links, 6 aren't good for the Tories/Dave
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't tell them that.
Think you'll find we lefty hoardes usually expect and understand TSE posting links that are supportive of his Party, but aren't particularly bothered about it.
Live and let live, but I honestly can't see how pleasure can be derived from having nails hammered into one's private parts, or having needles driven up one's urethra.
Is the same thing with dominatrices.
Why would any man want to hand over all his money to a woman who will be abusive to him and sexually frustrate him all night long.
The Sikh lady on the bbc immigration program should be the face of an anti immigration campaign. If she was a white man she would be getting dogs abuse on twitter for telling the truth
White non ukippers play the man not the ball, and always will, and nothing will change until immigrants, or their descendants who feel the same are heard. This guardian poll three years ago showed that race didn't play a big part into attitudes about immigration
"According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country".
Closer to home, Dave should tell Juncker that if the Euro wonks want to veto Lord Hill, the UK will turn off the tap and the Euro gravy train Juncker and chums take for granted will soon dry up.
he does seem to have a bit of an underwhelming CV for our only Commissioner but then so did Cathy Ashton I suppose. One can only guess what favour he did Cammo to deserve his ticket on the gravy train.
Not be an MP so no election required
There are other Tory peers.
He was the most senior.
In what way? Oldest? Longest in post? Longest in the Lords? Most obscure?
We've decided to start clamping down a bit on insults etc. I missed the first one earlier but you've now repeated it recently on the last thread. Tone it down.
Lib Dem conference passed a motion against it last year. Farron's been saying the party will probably oppose it for months now. Lib Dems in Scotland helped rip the guts out of it up there.
FPT @JackW If you fire at a packed beach in summer it's highly likely that many there will be children playing.
Artillery shells are not smart weapons.
Join the dots.
It wasn't Brighton beach.
It was in the middle of an offensive that Israel had warned about.
If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes.
That enough dots for you?
Rarely has a PBer written such utter foolishness and there have been some outstanding contenders in the past.
The attack was in broad daylight where it was obvious that the beach was like any other, even in conflict situations, seen as a haven for families to forget their troubles for a few hours.
The fact that Israel kindly gave notice of their extensive offensive doesn't give them a pass to kill indiscriminately.
Equally Hamas is also guilty of the same crimes. At some stage the equivalence of death will take its toll but that prospect is as far away as ever.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved and that includes you.
Both sides need to join the dots together.
Do you think the statement "If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes" is foolish?
Do you think that Israel deliberately targeted children? FFS.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved
Agreed. Although not holding my breath.
and that includes you.
I'm not pro-Israeli, nor their cheerleader. Nor presumably are you a Hamas cheerleader?
Of course Israel targets children as does Hamas. It cannot be disputed.
Any armed force that uses artillery shells in civilian areas will kill children.
We don't know that they were shells. They could have been guided missiles that went astray; not enough info yet.
I rather think you regretted that statement the moment you pressed send.
If they were guided missiles (I doubt it) then both missiles must have individually gone "astray" at the same time and strangely hit their target within yards of each other.
In any case Israeli forces have fried thousands of artillery shells killing many thousands of civilians over the years.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
As long as Israel controlls american TV and politics there is no risk, the problem is off course that A. america is becoming weaker over time B.Israel is becoming more right wing while america is becoming more left wing. C. Latinos and other minorities don't give a dime about Israel.
out of the first 8 links, 6 aren't good for the Tories/Dave
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't tell them that.
Think you'll find we lefty hoardes usually expect and understand TSE posting links that are supportive of his Party, but aren't particularly bothered about it.
Lol
You remind me of the the time one poster moaned and moaned that one of my threads was anti Ed Miliband and wrong.
He shut up when later on that day, Labourlist used my thread to do an article.
We've decided to start clamping down a bit on insults etc. I missed the first one earlier but you've now repeated it recently on the last thread. Tone it down.
Language Timothy!
I noticed you got ticked off earlier too.
Did you calm down or go rant about immigrants at your working class mates down the pub, perhaps in the corner on your own once they left, to get it off your chest?
out of the first 8 links, 6 aren't good for the Tories/Dave
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't tell them that.
Think you'll find we lefty hoardes usually expect and understand TSE posting links that are supportive of his Party, but aren't particularly bothered about it.
If TSE posts a lot of links that are bad for Labour it's because there's a LOT of media article's basically saying the same thing:
Ed's a dud!
No good blaming TSE for that. You need to do something about it like throwing Ed to the wolves and bringing back El Gord for one last throw of the dice...
The Sikh lady on the bbc immigration program should be the face of an anti immigration campaign. If she was a white man she would be getting dogs abuse on twitter for telling the truth
White non ukippers play the man not the ball, and always will, and nothing will change until immigrants, or their descendants who feel the same are heard. This guardian poll three years ago showed that race didn't play a big part into attitudes about immigration
"According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country".
Closer to home, Dave should tell Juncker that if the Euro wonks want to veto Lord Hill, the UK will turn off the tap and the Euro gravy train Juncker and chums take for granted will soon dry up.
he does seem to have a bit of an underwhelming CV for our only Commissioner but then so did Cathy Ashton I suppose. One can only guess what favour he did Cammo to deserve his ticket on the gravy train.
Not be an MP so no election required
There are other Tory peers.
He was the most senior.
In what way? Oldest? Longest in post? Longest in the Lords? Most obscure?
Lib Dem conference passed a motion against it last year. Farron's been saying the party will probably oppose it for months now. Lib Dems in Scotland helped rip the guts out of it up there.
The papers talk of a dramatic shift.
The only way the Yellows could make such a shift appear credible would be to do it under a new leader - otherwise it will seen as what it is - the last throw of the dice from a very worried man. And that is not a positive message to sell on any doorstep.
We've decided to start clamping down a bit on insults etc. I missed the first one earlier but you've now repeated it recently on the last thread. Tone it down.
Language Timothy!
I noticed you got ticked off earlier too.
Did you calm down or go rant about immigrants at your working class mates down the pub, perhaps in the corner on your own once they left, to get it off your chest?
Strange chap you are
I had a round of golf over the private members club at Cranham what what?
out of the first 8 links, 6 aren't good for the Tories/Dave
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Don't tell them that.
Think you'll find we lefty hoardes usually expect and understand TSE posting links that are supportive of his Party, but aren't particularly bothered about it.
If TSE posts a lot of links that are bad for Labour it's because there's a LOT of media article's basically saying the same thing:
Ed's a dud!
No good blaming TSE for that. You need to do something about it like throwing Ed to the wolves and bringing back El Gord for one last throw of the dice...
I'm not blaming TSE for anything! He openly and proudly supports his Party, there's nothing wrong with that, lots of people here do.
Stop illegally building settlements Open up the Gaza boarder Knock down the wall Stop Collective punishment Stop shelling beaches (they have killed people this way before) Stop diverting water and other resources away from Palestinian territory
Based on what my Jerusalem based contacts say (they are orthodox, but liberal politically)
- Illegal settlements are a nightmare for the Israelis. It's basically freelance nutters, but very difficult for the government to stop them because there is always a minor party in the Knesset who is propping up the government
- On the wall and the closed border, suicide bombs and terrorist murders in the shopping centres of Israeli have basically been eliminated. It ain't pretty, but defence of the citizen in the first thing that the government needs to do. The reason why Hamas ineffectually lobs missiles at Israel is because they can't get across the border with bombs
- Collective punishment: not so much - they try to target as much as they can, they provide warnings, but occasionally they make mistakes
- Haven't asked about beaches
- Water & resources is just a question of competing demands. Just ask California about how outrageous Nevada is about the Colorado River
Tell me: why did Hamas reject the Egyptian proposed cease fire?
8th (1950-1955) 10th (1955-1960) 10th (1960-1965) 10th (1965-1970) 13th (1970-1975) 14th (1975-1980) 16th (1980-1985) 18th (1985-1990) 13th in the 1990-1995 column 21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
Live and let live, but I honestly can't see how pleasure can be derived from having nails hammered into one's private parts, or having needles driven up one's urethra.
Why not? It is all on the same spectrum as being enjoyably frightened by horror movies, or scaring yourself shitless by mountaineering, or skiing, or getting a buzz from a stupidly hot curry.
They all produce endorphines, the body's natural heroin, as painkiller and pleasuregiver: nails in your nuts are merely a severe way of invoking the same.
Have you ever read "Guts" by Charles Palaniuk? Apparently, dozens of people have fainted at readings of this story.
Couldn't decide whether Balls was cross at Hattie having the temerity to stray on to his turf, or pleased to see Ed The Younger being ripped apart on the floor of HOC.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
I think that you do need to keep some perspective. Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, it has a free press and freedom of religion. It is the safest country in the region to be a Jew, or a Christian, an Atheist or even a Muslim. This is why the million Israeli Arabs express no desire to be part of a Palestinian state. They like their freedom and know that Hamas would extinguish that freedom.
Hamas have killed 10 of these boys family according to the nytimes:
There is a really quite suspect idea behind this outrage: that Israel is behaving outrageously and the palestinians are not. This is based on the implicit understanding that Israel is a civilised country while arabs should be forgiven because they are violent savages. I think that we should not accept that double standard. We should expect Hamas and the palestinians to behave in a civilised manner.
Good night all. I am off to prepare for tomorrow's Clan Council (remember I live in Brigadoon) and try not to think of Woody and Nick Clegg's bottom!!!
Live and let live, but I honestly can't see how pleasure can be derived from having nails hammered into one's private parts, or having needles driven up one's urethra.
Why not? It is all on the same spectrum as being enjoyably frightened by horror movies, or scaring yourself shitless by mountaineering, or skiing, or getting a buzz from a stupidly hot curry.
They all produce endorphines, the body's natural heroin, as painkiller and pleasuregiver: nails in your nuts are merely a severe way of invoking the same.
Have you ever read "Guts" by Charles Palaniuk? Apparently, dozens of people have fainted at readings of this story.
I have read it, and the idea it could "induce a fainting fit" is so dizzyingly ludicrous it makes me feel quite faint.
We're made of sterner stuff. I wasn't particularly perturbed by the Swedish boiling or Namibian burning scenes.
FPT @JackW If you fire at a packed beach in summer it's highly likely that many there will be children playing.
Artillery shells are not smart weapons.
Join the dots.
It wasn't Brighton beach.
It was in the middle of an offensive that Israel had warned about.
If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes.
That enough dots for you?
Rarely has a PBer written such utter foolishness and there have been some outstanding contenders in the past.
The attack was in broad daylight where it was obvious that the beach was like any other, even in conflict situations, seen as a haven for families to forget their troubles for a few hours.
The fact that Israel kindly gave notice of their extensive offensive doesn't give them a pass to kill indiscriminately.
Equally Hamas is also guilty of the same crimes. At some stage the equivalence of death will take its toll but that prospect is as far away as ever.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved and that includes you.
Both sides need to join the dots together.
Do you think the statement "If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes" is foolish?
Do you think that Israel deliberately targeted children? FFS.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved
Agreed. Although not holding my breath.
and that includes you.
I'm not pro-Israeli, nor their cheerleader. Nor presumably are you a Hamas cheerleader?
Of course Israel targets children as does Hamas. It cannot be disputed.
Any armed force that uses artillery shells in civilian areas will kill children.
We don't know that they were shells. They could have been guided missiles that went astray; not enough info yet.
According to the BBC: "Israel initially observed the ceasefire on Tuesday, but resumed its strikes amid continued rocket fire from Gaza." So who should we really blame for this abhorrent incident?
Evening all and it seems the Middle East is no nearer a lasting settlement. I tend towards supporting Israel but until it realises that constant breach of UN Resolutions and turfing more Palestinians off their land to build settlements for Russian and Eastern European Jews, will not make the Palestinians lay down their rockets etc.
Of course until the USA, UK and others make Israel comply and return to the 1967 boundaries, it wont happen and more innocents on both sides will continue to die needlessly.
Closer to home, Dave should tell Juncker that if the Euro wonks want to veto Lord Hill, the UK will turn off the tap and the Euro gravy train Juncker and chums take for granted will soon dry up.
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the Bland one and Hattie met after PMQs this afternoon. For once I am with Hattie. At least she was only telling the truth about Labour's tax plans.
I wonder which PBers have been brave and started to place bets on Labour MPs losing marginal to the Tory challenger next May. No doubt there will be a few of them.
May I just mention that about a year ago I hypothesised that one way for Cameron to win the GE was to engineer a HUGE row with the EU at a crucial point before the GE, this ensuring all the Kippers comes home as Dave Stands Up For Britain.
A massive bust up with Brussels as they veto our noble commissioner merely for having a mildly eurosceptic opinion would seem to fit my scenario, quite perfectly.
That would lead to the opposite as Dace will be forced to choose someone less eurosceptic for commissioner by Brussels. In effect he would cede the choice of commissioner to the EU.
the EU Parliament can't veto a single commissioner, only a slate
The way they try to get round this is by saying "we won't approve the slate unless you sack X"
But only Cameron can nominate X - or withdraw the nomination.
If he says "no" then I think the old commission remains in place...
The risk, of course, is that he loses the election & then EdM gets to choose someone...
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was Blair's signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
Sure Ed's got problems but he didn't lead us into the Iraq nightmare.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
I think that you do need to keep some perspective. Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, it has a free press and freedom of religion. It is the safest country in the region to be a Jew, or a Christian, an Atheist or even a Muslim. This is why the million Israeli Arabs express no desire to be part of a Palestinian state. They like their freedom and know that Hamas would extinguish that freedom.
Hamas have killed 10 of these boys family according to the nytimes:
There is a really quite suspect idea behind this outrage: that Israel is behaving outrageously and the palestinians are not. This is based on the implicit understanding that Israel is a civilised country while arabs should be forgiven because they are violent savages. I think that we should not accept that double standard. We should expect Hamas and the palestinians to behave in a civilised manner.
Israel is not a real democracy in any normal western sense of the term. For a start, only Jews are allowed to migrate and settle there: it operates an openly bigoted "apartheid" immigration system.
Israel is a bizarre kind of liberal-Fascist representative quasi-theocracy. It is, for sure, sui generis.
Given Jewish history, their immigration policy seems very sensible to me. European countries wanted to clear out the Jews, so Israel was a refuge for Jews.
Israel is like one of the nation States that succeeded Austria-Hungary.
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was his signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Won't be Dan Hodges running up the Mall naked at the same?
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved and that includes you.
Both sides need to join the dots together.
Do you think the statement "If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes" is foolish?
Do you think that Israel deliberately targeted children? FFS.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved
Agreed. Although not holding my breath.
and that includes you.
I'm not pro-Israeli, nor their cheerleader. Nor presumably are you a Hamas cheerleader?
Of course Israel targets children as does Hamas. It cannot be disputed.
Any armed force that uses artillery shells in civilian areas will kill children.
We don't know that they were shells. They could have been guided missiles that went astray; not enough info yet.
According to the BBC: "Israel initially observed the ceasefire on Tuesday, but resumed its strikes amid continued rocket fire from Gaza." So who should we really blame for this abhorrent incident?
----------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately this is what happens in war. Israel has asked the population to move to safer areas where they say they will not attack. But it's a big ask and not all the population will move and Hamas themselves are stopping people from leaving.
On the cease fire, Israel accepted the truce; Hamas refused and continued launching rockets at Tel-Aviv and other towns in Israel.
Just to clarify, I know what it is to be under rocket fire from Rockets so I know from whereof I speak: 1) Sept 1944 - March 1945 Town London . I was 10 years old and have never forgotten Rockets V2 2) January 1991 Town Tel-Aviv. Rockets Scud II and III.
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was his signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was his signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Lamenting the failure of the British people to see what is supposedly blindingly obvious, I imagine, it's the usual approach I suspect.
Of course, the amazing thing about pundits, be they political, economic or sports focused, is their ability to not let being completely wrong in previous predictions prevent them from being so apparently certain of future predictions. It's mightily impressive, such unshakable confidence, it lends itself to admirable boldness and certainty of purpose. At times.
Live and let live, but I honestly can't see how pleasure can be derived from having nails hammered into one's private parts, or having needles driven up one's urethra.
Why not? It is all on the same spectrum as being enjoyably frightened by horror movies, or scaring yourself shitless by mountaineering, or skiing, or getting a buzz from a stupidly hot curry.
They all produce endorphines, the body's natural heroin, as painkiller and pleasuregiver: nails in your nuts are merely a severe way of invoking the same.
Have you ever read "Guts" by Charles Palaniuk? Apparently, dozens of people have fainted at readings of this story.
I have read it, and the idea it could "induce a fainting fit" is so dizzyingly ludicrous it makes me feel quite faint.
We're made of sterner stuff. I wasn't particularly perturbed by the Swedish boiling or Namibian burning scenes.
Actually, I WAS perturbed by the Swedish Boiling chapter.
The other day I idly picked up Genesis Secret in some airport bookshop (it still sells quite well around the world, unlike most other Tom Knox novels).
I flicked to that chapter and - I must confess - I flinched at the hallucinatory violence. It made me feel quite queasy. It was the first time I'd read it in many years.
I was simultaneously proud and alarmed that I once wrote something so wildly unpleasant.
I'm glad you didn't go all the way with the orang-tang rape scene.
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
8th (1950-1955) 10th (1955-1960) 10th (1960-1965) 10th (1965-1970) 13th (1970-1975) 14th (1975-1980) 16th (1980-1985) 18th (1985-1990) 13th in the 1990-1995 column 21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
They may be nurses but they are clearly not statisticians or epidemiologists! England and Wales now has an infant mortality rate that is half of what it was 30 years ago. It is getting better (not worse!) though other countries have also improved. Could it get better? Probably. But to suggest it is third world is ludicrous. When IMR is higher than 10 it mostly reflects the quality of obstetric and perinatal care. Below that it mostly reflects the rate of premature births, abortion policy and how aggressively very premature babies are resuscitated. Bearing in mind the long term disabilities associated with survival of infants born below 500g, we should at least consider the ethics of treatment. Do we really want survival at any level of disability?
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was Blair's signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
Sure Ed's got problems but he didn't lead us into the Iraq nightmare.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
I'm not sure it's all about Iraq.
But for sure these disciples followed His Tonyness in his remarkable journey from social democrat saviour to rightwing neocon oddball.
And they think the only future for the Labour Party is a rightwing neocon oddball Blairalike.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
America is in swift relative decline? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
Is this the war equivalent of "I was just swinging my arms and it's his fault he put his face in the way to get 'punched'".
To close the day, I sence mighty economic problems coming Britain's way when I saw the latest Current Account deficit figures, they haven't gone that bad and so quickly since 1988. Depending on when the next crisis begins it might impact the election but when it starts it will be a big one. Poor Ed and Osborne.
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was his signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Lamenting the failure of the British people to see what is supposedly blindingly obvious, I imagine, it's the usual approach I suspect.
Of course, the amazing thing about pundits, be they political, economic or sports focused, is their ability to not let being completely wrong in previous predictions prevent them from being so apparently certain of future predictions. It's mightily impressive, such unshakable confidence, it lends itself to admirable boldness and certainty of purpose. At times.
Nah he'll be saying it's the death of the Labour Party for generations etc.
In fact Dan's paycheck is more secure if Labour win than lose, given that his job is spoonfeeding anti-Ed crap to the receptive and gullible.
The Sikh lady on the bbc immigration program should be the face of an anti immigration campaign. If she was a white man she would be getting dogs abuse on twitter for telling the truth
White non ukippers play the man not the ball, and always will, and nothing will change until immigrants, or their descendants who feel the same are heard. This guardian poll three years ago showed that race didn't play a big part into attitudes about immigration
"According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country".
So 63% for white and 17% for black does not indicate a difference in attitude by race....well it's a view I suppose...
Why did you miss out the 43% of Asian Britons? Selective quoting to suit your agenda?
I could have been partial to prove my point, but thought it more honest to show the whole findings
What about
"39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently,"
No agenda just amused by your relentless efforts to distance anti-immigration attitudes from racism or national stereotyping and to keep the debate about immigration per se...
Personally, I'm of the view that the UK would prosper outside the EU and that national control of immigration is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty but never would I support a party with a leader who resorts to labelling of Romanians as neighbours about whom it's OK to be uncomfortable...
Farage got that wrong and his and the party's efforts to backtrack show that he knew he got it wrong...
Do we see in "Hugh" the reason Labour are losing working class votes?
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
America is in swift relative decline? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
America is on the edge of a cliff as the world edges towards de-dollaring.
(I don't think that negatively effects Israel though as a US collapse will mean Israel will probably do x and y.)
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
Is this the war equivalent of "I was just swinging my arms and it's his fault he put his face in the way to get 'punched'".
The Sikh lady on the bbc immigration program should be the face of an anti immigration campaign. If she was a white man she would be getting dogs abuse on twitter for telling the truth
White non ukippers play the man not the ball, and always will, and nothing will change until immigrants, or their descendants who feel the same are heard. This guardian poll three years ago showed that race didn't play a big part into attitudes about immigration
"According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country".
So 63% for white and 17% for black does not indicate a difference in attitude by race....well it's a view I suppose...
Why did you miss out the 43% of Asian Britons? Selective quoting to suit your agenda?
I could have been partial to prove my point, but thought it more honest to show the whole findings
What about
"39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently,"
No agenda just amused by your relentless efforts to distance anti-immigration attitudes from racism or national stereotyping and to keep the debate about immigration per se...
Personally, I'm of the view that the UK would prosper outside the EU and that national control of immigration is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty but never would I support a party with a leader who resorts to labelling of Romanians as neighbours about whom it's OK to be uncomfortable...
Farage got that wrong and his and the party's efforts to backtrack show that he knew he got it wrong...
I believe his actual words were it was ok to "have concerns" were a "group of Romanian men" to move in next door. His reasoning for that was a lack of criminal checks on Romanians moving here. That's a difference from being uncomfortable with Romanians in general. He also said that with a proper border control in place, people would not need to feel uncomfortable with Romanians moving in, as people would know they were not gangs.
8th (1950-1955) 10th (1955-1960) 10th (1960-1965) 10th (1965-1970) 13th (1970-1975) 14th (1975-1980) 16th (1980-1985) 18th (1985-1990) 13th in the 1990-1995 column 21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
They may be nurses but they are clearly not statisticians or epidemiologists! England and Wales now has an infant mortality rate that is half of what it was 30 years ago. It is getting better (not worse!) though other countries have also improved. Could it get better? Probably. But to suggest it is third world is ludicrous. When IMR is higher than 10 it mostly reflects the quality of obstetric and perinatal care. Below that it mostly reflects the rate of premature births, abortion policy and how aggressively very premature babies are resuscitated. Bearing in mind the long term disabilities associated with survival of infants born below 500g, we should at least consider the ethics of treatment. Do we really want survival at any level of disability?
21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
What are the demographics of Israel and the occupied territories?
Will there soon be a time, the Palestinians decide they don't want a separate state, they'd much rather have the one they're already in?
But they're not in the Israeli state. They're in Israeli controlled Bantustans, ruled by Israel but without the vote.
Arabs living in Israel get the vote, same as anyone else.
Also worth pointing out that being gay, drinking alcohol or a woman not wearing a veil will get you beaten or killed in many mid east countries. Not in Israel. It is a very interesting and complex country, with plenty of problems but one where freedom is in the air. It is unique in the middle east.
Try your drinking and whoring in Gaza or Hebron, or try it in Tel Aviv. Which place would have you jailed or worse?
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
I don't deny that Hamas are far from innocent, I'm just uncomfortable with the way that Israel sems to just shrugs it's shoulders and says "Oops" when it does something unacceptable.
Have John Rentoul and Dan Hodges ever been spotted in the same room together ?
Probably numerous times under New Labour.
What is it about all the Blairite commentators that they hate Ed Miliband so much, are they all still that bitter about David losing the election ?!
Exactly. It all comes down to Rentoul/Hodges/etc protecting Tony's reputation over Iraq and their fury about Ed taking a different view what was his signature policy. Their hatred is such that it impacts on their critical faculties.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Lamenting the failure of the British people to see what is supposedly blindingly obvious, I imagine, it's the usual approach I suspect.
Of course, the amazing thing about pundits, be they political, economic or sports focused, is their ability to not let being completely wrong in previous predictions prevent them from being so apparently certain of future predictions. It's mightily impressive, such unshakable confidence, it lends itself to admirable boldness and certainty of purpose. At times.
Nah he'll be saying it's the death of the Labour Party for generations etc.
In fact Dan's paycheck is more secure if Labour win than lose, given that his job is spoonfeeding anti-Ed crap to the receptive and gullible.
I don't know. With Labour in government likely to be much like most parties in government - that is to say, not great, with numerous cock-ups, but not as disastrous as the doomsayers will think - he has less opportunity to peddle the most pessimistic view possible of the leadership and the party, as unlike when they are in opposition, there will be concrete evidence that their impact will not always be terrible.
He fills a niche as a former Labour insider who conveniently despises the current Labour clique and happily plays up the idea that the Tories are, even when not doing so intentionally, doing fine pretty much no matter what they do. So long as the Tories are in government that can be peddled easily, but with them in opposition and tearing themselves to pieces post 2015, I don't know that their will be as much of a market for such optimistic assessments of their chances.
Do we see in "Hugh" the reason Labour are losing working class votes?
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
Coal and a dead whippet for breakfast? You were lucky!
What are the demographics of Israel and the occupied territories?
Will there soon be a time, the Palestinians decide they don't want a separate state, they'd much rather have the one they're already in?
But they're not in the Israeli state. They're in Israeli controlled Bantustans, ruled by Israel but without the vote.
Arabs living in Israel get the vote, same as anyone else.
No. Arab citizens of Israel do. Not Arab residents. And Israel made sure to kick out enough Arabs during the wars and deny them and their children citizenship to make sure it's not an issue.
8th (1950-1955) 10th (1955-1960) 10th (1960-1965) 10th (1965-1970) 13th (1970-1975) 14th (1975-1980) 16th (1980-1985) 18th (1985-1990) 13th in the 1990-1995 column 21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
They may be nurses but they are clearly not statisticians or epidemiologists! England and Wales now has an infant mortality rate that is half of what it was 30 years ago. It is getting better (not worse!) though other countries have also improved. Could it get better? Probably. But to suggest it is third world is ludicrous. When IMR is higher than 10 it mostly reflects the quality of obstetric and perinatal care. Below that it mostly reflects the rate of premature births, abortion policy and how aggressively very premature babies are resuscitated. Bearing in mind the long term disabilities associated with survival of infants born below 500g, we should at least consider the ethics of treatment. Do we really want survival at any level of disability?
21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
Your lack of understanding of statistics makes you deaf.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
I think that you do need to keep some perspective. Israel is the only real democracy in the middle east, it has a free press and freedom of religion. It is the safest country in the region to be a Jew, or a Christian, an Atheist or even a Muslim. This is why the million Israeli Arabs express no desire to be part of a Palestinian state. They like their freedom and know that Hamas would extinguish that freedom.
Hamas have killed 10 of these boys family according to the nytimes:
There is a really quite suspect idea behind this outrage: that Israel is behaving outrageously and the palestinians are not. This is based on the implicit understanding that Israel is a civilised country while arabs should be forgiven because they are violent savages. I think that we should not accept that double standard. We should expect Hamas and the palestinians to behave in a civilised manner.
Israel is not a real democracy in any normal western sense of the term. For a start, only Jews are allowed to migrate and settle there: it operates an openly bigoted "apartheid" immigration system.
Israel is a bizarre kind of liberal-Fascist representative quasi-theocracy. It is, for sure, sui generis.
Given Jewish history, their immigration policy seems very sensible to me. European countries wanted to clear out the Jews, so Israel was a refuge for Jews.
Israel is like one of the nation States that succeeded Austria-Hungary.
In hindsight, the Jews should have probably have been given East Prussia at their nation state.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
America is in swift relative decline? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
Since nuclear power had just been utilized in 1945 I will give the total aircraft carriers
1945 USA:32 India:not existed yet China: not existed yet USSR:0
2014 USA:10 India:2 (1 under construction) China:1 (2 under construction) Russia:1
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
I don't deny that Hamas are far from innocent, I'm just uncomfortable with the way that Israel seems to just shrugs it's shoulders and says "Oops" when it does something unacceptable.
This is my general position as well, most of the time, as I am prone to flip-flop even more than usual, given the intensely serious nature of the situation. Israel is not without provocation or threat, the never-ending cycle of this whole depressing mess is not, whatever the origins, entirely down to their present attitudes and actions, but they are the one's operating from a position of strength and control, even if both are tenuous at times, and that does impact assessing the whole mess.
The Sikh lady on the bbc immigration program should be the face of an anti immigration campaign. If she was a white man she would be getting dogs abuse on twitter for telling the truth
White non ukippers play the man not the ball, and always will, and nothing will change until immigrants, or their descendants who feel the same are heard. This guardian poll three years ago showed that race didn't play a big part into attitudes about immigration
"According to the survey, 39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently, or at least until the economy improved. And 43% of Asian Britons, 63% of white Britons and 17% of black Britons agreed with the statement that "immigration into Britain has been a bad thing for the country".
So 63% for white and 17% for black does not indicate a difference in attitude by race....well it's a view I suppose...
Why did you miss out the 43% of Asian Britons? Selective quoting to suit your agenda?
I could have been partial to prove my point, but thought it more honest to show the whole findings
What about
"39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently,"
No agenda just amused by your relentless efforts to distance anti-immigration attitudes from racism or national stereotyping and to keep the debate about immigration per se...
Personally, I'm of the view that the UK would prosper outside the EU and that national control of immigration is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty but never would I support a party with a leader who resorts to labelling of Romanians as neighbours about whom it's OK to be uncomfortable...
Farage got that wrong and his and the party's efforts to backtrack show that he knew he got it wrong...
I never say anything derogatory about other races or countries precisely because I don't think my race or country is better or worse than any other
But I do see a logical problem with mass immigration from wherever to wherever,, that's all. It's the same the world over, why not try and sort it instead of wishing it would just be ok one day?
Do we see in "Hugh" the reason Labour are losing working class votes?
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
Coal and a dead whippet for breakfast? You were lucky!
Don't you want labour voters who voted ukip at the euros to return? Is that why you insult them?
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
America is in swift relative decline? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
...
America was defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its voters are now so war-averse they refused to intervene in Syria. This is clearly a nation in post-imperial mood.
...
You make some good points, but you could also have said the same post-Vietnam. And how much has America done since then?
I dont think any nation can justify killing non combatants in the numbers that Israel manages.
But how many of those non combatants are pawns sacrificed by Hamas?
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
I don't deny that Hamas are far from innocent, I'm just uncomfortable with the way that Israel sems to just shrugs it's shoulders and says "Oops" when it does something unacceptable.
I agree. I don't believe they do them deliberately - as some imply - but their view is that they exist in a state of war and, unfortunately, sometimes the innocent die in wars.
But it's been interesting: for the last 3-4 days the BBC has been mentioning the Hamas rocket attacks - much more balanced - whereas it was all Israeli attacks for the first week
Do we see in "Hugh" the reason Labour are losing working class votes?
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
Coal and a dead whippet for breakfast? You were lucky!
Don't you want labour voters who voted ukip at the euros to return? Is that why you insult them?
Labour are, of course, vastly more popular with working class voters than UKIP.
Don't you think your "PB's hotline to the Working Classes" act is wearing a bit thin? Heck, we could all "claim" to have "mates" who are "working class", even PB posters.
Some of us might even actually be working class, you never know.
What are the demographics of Israel and the occupied territories?
Will there soon be a time, the Palestinians decide they don't want a separate state, they'd much rather have the one they're already in?
But they're not in the Israeli state. They're in Israeli controlled Bantustans, ruled by Israel but without the vote.
Arabs living in Israel get the vote, same as anyone else.
No. Arab citizens of Israel do. Not Arab residents. And Israel made sure to kick out enough Arabs during the wars and deny them and their children citizenship to make sure it's not an issue.
"Right of Return" is the biggest issue.
My understanding is that the Israeli government offered financial restitution at today's market value. But that wasn't enough: the Palestinians demanded the same patch of land, regardless of what has been done in the last 50 years. You'd think they are looking for an excuse to avoid peace.
Are there any figures on what the public thinks about the bedroom tax? I confess that I don't understand why it in particular became such a focal point for Labour, so I presume they must be getting some traction with it, whereas other restrictions are actually pretty popular.
I hope you are right but sadly I doubt it. We will still be here in a decades time saying the same things.
Israel does not care. Unless the west stops selling them guns and giving them money they won't stop.
The tides are against Israel. The nation relies on America. But America is in swift relative decline, from 50% of global GDP in 1945, down to 15% soon, and so on and so forth. How much longer will Americans be willing and able to unconditionally defend Jerusalem? Ten years? 15? 20 max?
Can't see the Chinese or the Indians going to the wall for the right of Israelis to unilaterally seize Arab land.
Israel should sue for peace now, while America is still, relatively, stronger.
America is in swift relative decline? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now? How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
...
America was defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan, and its voters are now so war-averse they refused to intervene in Syria. This is clearly a nation in post-imperial mood.
...
You make some good points, but you could also have said the same post-Vietnam. And how much has America done since then?
Back in 2000 the USA had control or internal influence in all the countries in the world except China, N.Korea, Cuba, Belarus, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan and Libya. By 2014 they just have control of north america and some parts of europe (UK and some minor central european countries), they even lost control of Israel (Israel controls them now).
8th (1950-1955) 10th (1955-1960) 10th (1960-1965) 10th (1965-1970) 13th (1970-1975) 14th (1975-1980) 16th (1980-1985) 18th (1985-1990) 13th in the 1990-1995 column 21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
They may be nurses but they are clearly not statisticians or epidemiologists! England and Wales now has an infant mortality rate that is half of what it was 30 years ago. It is getting better (not worse!) though other countries have also improved. Could it get better? Probably. But to suggest it is third world is ludicrous. When IMR is higher than 10 it mostly reflects the quality of obstetric and perinatal care. Below that it mostly reflects the rate of premature births, abortion policy and how aggressively very premature babies are resuscitated. Bearing in mind the long term disabilities associated with survival of infants born below 500g, we should at least consider the ethics of treatment. Do we really want survival at any level of disability?
21st in the 1995-2000 column 27th in the 2000-2005 column 29th in the 2005-2010 column
Your lack of understanding of statistics makes you deaf.
The countries just behind UK in the rankings are: Croatia, Cuba, US, Malta, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania.
The US is up in the air at the mo but of the rest i'd guess at least Croatia, Cuba, Poland and Estonia will pass Britain in the 2010-2015 list.
HMS Hermes of Falklands War fame is still in service with the Indian Navy as INS Viraat. She was transferred in 1987. And the ex-Soviet carrier Admiral Gorshkov (now INS Vikramaditya) has just entered service after a long and protracted refurbishment.
Are there any figures on what the public thinks about the bedroom tax? I confess that I don't understand why it in particular became such a focal point for Labour, so I presume they must be getting some traction with it, whereas other restrictions are actually pretty popular.
I believe there was some polling showing about 60% support for it
If does rely on the real policy being explained (which is bringing public sector rental sector rules into line with those in the private sector)
But people do seem to have grasped the idea that the state shouldn't pay for houses that are bigger than the needs of the family.
Yes, there will always be hard cases - but the basic principle seems to be one on which a majority of people agree
Do we see in "Hugh" the reason Labour are losing working class votes?
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
Coal and a dead whippet for breakfast? You were lucky!
Don't you want labour voters who voted ukip at the euros to return? Is that why you insult them?
Labour are, of course, vastly more popular with working class voters than UKIP.
Don't you think your "PB's hotline to the Working Classes" act is wearing a bit thin? Heck, we could all "claim" to have "mates" who are "working class", even PB posters.
Some of us might even actually be working class, you never know.
Well I am working class, so it's not an act, and if you say you are why would I doubt it? I post under my own name it would be easy to find out if you think I'm lying. The fact you don't believe it, though it's true, shows what labour think of their own people
There are more working class labour voters than ukip yes, but working class voters are more of % of UKIPs vote than they are of labours
Comments
Why would any man want to hand over all his money to a woman who will be abusive to him and sexually frustrate him all night long.
I get that for free at home
The papers talk of a dramatic shift.
If they were guided missiles (I doubt it) then both missiles must have individually gone "astray" at the same time and strangely hit their target within yards of each other.
In any case Israeli forces have fried thousands of artillery shells killing many thousands of civilians over the years.
Similarly Fatah and Hamas.
You remind me of the the time one poster moaned and moaned that one of my threads was anti Ed Miliband and wrong.
He shut up when later on that day, Labourlist used my thread to do an article.
Did you calm down or go rant about immigrants at your working class mates down the pub, perhaps in the corner on your own once they left, to get it off your chest?
Ed's a dud!
No good blaming TSE for that. You need to do something about it like throwing Ed to the wolves and bringing back El Gord for one last throw of the dice...
I could have been partial to prove my point, but thought it more honest to show the whole findings
What about
"39% of Asian Britons, 34% of white Britons and 21% of black Britons wanted all immigration into the UK to be stopped permanently,"
I had a round of golf over the private members club at Cranham what what?
Poor Ed looked like a rabbit in headlights, LOL.
- Illegal settlements are a nightmare for the Israelis. It's basically freelance nutters, but very difficult for the government to stop them because there is always a minor party in the Knesset who is propping up the government
- On the wall and the closed border, suicide bombs and terrorist murders in the shopping centres of Israeli have basically been eliminated. It ain't pretty, but defence of the citizen in the first thing that the government needs to do. The reason why Hamas ineffectually lobs missiles at Israel is because they can't get across the border with bombs
- Collective punishment: not so much - they try to target as much as they can, they provide warnings, but occasionally they make mistakes
- Haven't asked about beaches
- Water & resources is just a question of competing demands. Just ask California about how outrageous Nevada is about the Colorado River
Tell me: why did Hamas reject the Egyptian proposed cease fire?
8th (1950-1955)
10th (1955-1960)
10th (1960-1965)
10th (1965-1970)
13th (1970-1975)
14th (1975-1980)
16th (1980-1985)
18th (1985-1990)
13th in the 1990-1995 column
21st in the 1995-2000 column
27th in the 2000-2005 column
29th in the 2005-2010 column
with the the last few showing how Britain is plummeting towards 3rd world status.
(You're right i should have said "towards" rather than "to" as we're not there quite yet).
Looks a lot like the education rankings in fact.
"Have you read and understood my comments?"
I know what the reasons are - half the women in my extended family are nurses or ex-nurses.
"And did you notice on this chart how infant mortality has been going down in the UK?"
Medical science keeps improving. The relative ability of a country to make the most of those improvements can go up or down. In Britain's case it is going down hence the drop in relative ranking.
Hamas have killed 10 of these boys family according to the nytimes:
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-beach-explosion-kills-children.html?from=homepage
Where were the journalists then?
There is a really quite suspect idea behind this outrage: that Israel is behaving outrageously and the palestinians are not. This is based on the implicit understanding that Israel is a civilised country while arabs should be forgiven because they are violent savages. I think that we should not accept that double standard. We should expect Hamas and the palestinians to behave in a civilised manner.
After the shambles again today has Ed decided to support an in/out referendum.
I do hope so. After their previous record in such offers and promises on letting the people decide for themselves the country might die of laughing.
Will there soon be a time, the Palestinians decide they don't want a separate state, they'd much rather have the one they're already in?
The way they try to get round this is by saying "we won't approve the slate unless you sack X"
But only Cameron can nominate X - or withdraw the nomination.
If he says "no" then I think the old commission remains in place...
The risk, of course, is that he loses the election & then EdM gets to choose someone...
@jameschappers: Not sure what Lib Dems hope to gain by opposing bedroom tax [sic] which they voted for repeatedly at this late stage. Desperate stuff
Sure Ed's got problems but he didn't lead us into the Iraq nightmare.
I just wonder what Hodges will be blogging as Ed is being driven up the Mall to see the Queen
Israel is like one of the nation States that succeeded Austria-Hungary.
Both sides need to join the dots together.
Do you think the statement "If the rocket attacks on Israel stopped, so would the counter-strikes" is foolish?
Do you think that Israel deliberately targeted children? FFS.
Israel and Palestine will not enjoy peace until they finally resolve that neither will destroy each other and their respective cheerleaders only lengthen the day that resolution is achieved
Agreed. Although not holding my breath.
and that includes you.
I'm not pro-Israeli, nor their cheerleader. Nor presumably are you a Hamas cheerleader?
Of course Israel targets children as does Hamas. It cannot be disputed.
Any armed force that uses artillery shells in civilian areas will kill children.
We don't know that they were shells. They could have been guided missiles that went astray; not enough info yet.
According to the BBC: "Israel initially observed the ceasefire on Tuesday, but resumed its strikes amid continued rocket fire from Gaza." So who should we really blame for this abhorrent incident?
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Unfortunately this is what happens in war. Israel has asked the population to move to safer areas where they say they will not attack. But it's a big ask and not all the population will move and Hamas themselves are stopping people from leaving.
On the cease fire, Israel accepted the truce; Hamas refused and continued launching rockets at Tel-Aviv and other towns in Israel.
Just to clarify, I know what it is to be under rocket fire from Rockets so I know from whereof I speak:
1) Sept 1944 - March 1945 Town London . I was 10 years old and have never forgotten Rockets V2
2) January 1991 Town Tel-Aviv. Rockets Scud II and III.
Former government chief whip Andrew Mitchell has invested in a high-profile film financing company considered to be a tax avoidance scheme by HMRC.
Tax collectors say the scheme's investors can expect to receive big tax bills in the coming months.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28331818
Of course, the amazing thing about pundits, be they political, economic or sports focused, is their ability to not let being completely wrong in previous predictions prevent them from being so apparently certain of future predictions. It's mightily impressive, such unshakable confidence, it lends itself to admirable boldness and certainty of purpose. At times.
The IDF released a very interesting video of an (aborted) attack the other day: they made the call, fired the warning shot. The family ran away from the house, but then lots of random "civilians" ran into the house and on to the roof.
I assume they were unarmed - but deliberately putting themselves in harm's way as a human shield. I'm not sure that should really count as a "non combatant" but I'm willing to bet they are in the numbers as such
But for sure these disciples followed His Tonyness in his remarkable journey from social democrat saviour to rightwing neocon oddball.
And they think the only future for the Labour Party is a rightwing neocon oddball Blairalike.
How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did it have in 1945, How many does it have now?
How many nuclear powered aircraft carriers did China India and Russia have in 1945, How many do they have now?
You are comparing a country whose great claim to fame is that it supplies the tat that Primak sells, to the nation that landed a man on the moon? China has 1.4 billion mouths to feed; to do that they make tat in appalling conditions. It is sinking in a stinking pit of its own trash. What is the relative standard of living between China and America? America's living standards are 5 times China's.
Depending on when the next crisis begins it might impact the election but when it starts it will be a big one.
Poor Ed and Osborne.
Do you think Michael Gove did a good or bad job as Education Secretary
Total Good Job 22%
Total Bad Job 58%
DK 19%
Do you think David Cameron was right or wrong to remove Michael Gove as Education Secretary
Right 63%
Wrong 12%
DK 26%
And thinking about women in the Conservative Party, which of the following best reflects your view
Women have many senior roles and are very well represented at the top of the party 5%
There are some women in senior roles and they are fairly well represented 31%
There are not many women in senior roles and they are not very represented 39%
There are no women in senior roles and it seems to be dominated by men 4%
Not sure 21%
In fact Dan's paycheck is more secure if Labour win than lose, given that his job is spoonfeeding anti-Ed crap to the receptive and gullible.
Personally, I'm of the view that the UK would prosper outside the EU and that national control of immigration is a fundamental aspect of sovereignty but never would I support a party with a leader who resorts to labelling of Romanians as neighbours about whom it's OK to be uncomfortable...
Farage got that wrong and his and the party's efforts to backtrack show that he knew he got it wrong...
My parents are public sector workers, born in council houses, and are lifelong labour voters. I have voted labour at every GE I have voted in. I posted for a couple of years on here as a pro labour lefty and received insults from SeanT etc to prove it
Now my family are all voting ukip and I have joined the party because we feel Labour don't speak for us anymore... What does the Labour poster do? Take the piss and claim I can't really be from a working class background...
(I don't think that negatively effects Israel though as a US collapse will mean Israel will probably do x and y.)
Have a look at this and see what you think.
Of course it is posted by the IDF, but you've got to assume that if it was faked someone would have figured it out by now
27th in the 2000-2005 column
29th in the 2005-2010 column
Try your drinking and whoring in Gaza or Hebron, or try it in Tel Aviv. Which place would have you jailed or worse?
He fills a niche as a former Labour insider who conveniently despises the current Labour clique and happily plays up the idea that the Tories are, even when not doing so intentionally, doing fine pretty much no matter what they do. So long as the Tories are in government that can be peddled easily, but with them in opposition and tearing themselves to pieces post 2015, I don't know that their will be as much of a market for such optimistic assessments of their chances.
@IainDale: Ed Miliband should now put down an amendment to the Spare Room Subsidy Act or whatever it is called and challenge the LibDems to vote 4 it.
Part of Operation Decouple of course.
But will it work, or is he, yet again, just dancing to the Tory tune too much.
1945
USA:32
India:not existed yet
China: not existed yet
USSR:0
2014
USA:10
India:2 (1 under construction)
China:1 (2 under construction)
Russia:1
But I do see a logical problem with mass immigration from wherever to wherever,, that's all. It's the same the world over, why not try and sort it instead of wishing it would just be ok one day?
You mean the "get out of your house in two minutes so we can demolish it and never rebuild it" line? Are you really surprised that causes resistance?
But it's been interesting: for the last 3-4 days the BBC has been mentioning the Hamas rocket attacks - much more balanced - whereas it was all Israeli attacks for the first week
Don't you think your "PB's hotline to the Working Classes" act is wearing a bit thin? Heck, we could all "claim" to have "mates" who are "working class", even PB posters.
Some of us might even actually be working class, you never know.
My understanding is that the Israeli government offered financial restitution at today's market value. But that wasn't enough: the Palestinians demanded the same patch of land, regardless of what has been done in the last 50 years. You'd think they are looking for an excuse to avoid peace.
It was others who came in.
BUt I'm to bed. I'm flying to Socal tomorrow
By 2014 they just have control of north america and some parts of europe (UK and some minor central european countries), they even lost control of Israel (Israel controls them now).
The US is up in the air at the mo but of the rest i'd guess at least Croatia, Cuba, Poland and Estonia will pass Britain in the 2010-2015 list.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28331818
Anyway despite all that it's ashame Dave didn't bring him back into Gov't in my opinion.
Reasons:
a) Isn't a mate of Osborne
b) Doesn't have a vagina
c) Not part of the chumocracy
Or he could have made him an EU commissioner...
I wonder if Lynton killed the idea as by-elections inevitably give oxygen and publicity to UKIP.
Commonwealth Games: English athletes briefed on what to do if booed by Scots
Fears that Scottish nationalists will use the games to abuse English athletes has led to some seeking guidance
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/10972257/Commonwealth-Games-English-athletes-briefed-on-what-to-do-if-booed-by-Scots.html
If does rely on the real policy being explained (which is bringing public sector rental sector rules into line with those in the private sector)
But people do seem to have grasped the idea that the state shouldn't pay for houses that are bigger than the needs of the family.
Yes, there will always be hard cases - but the basic principle seems to be one on which a majority of people agree
There are more working class labour voters than ukip yes, but working class voters are more of % of UKIPs vote than they are of labours