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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On a uniform swing Nicky Morgan’s Loughborough goes LAB eve

SystemSystem Posts: 11,693
edited July 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On a uniform swing Nicky Morgan’s Loughborough goes LAB even if CON win most votes nationally

The seat highlighted is Nicky Morgan’s Loughborough which as can be seen would go LAB even though EdM’s party would be behind on national vote share. This would be the 316th LAB seat leaving the party ten short of an overall majority.

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    Labour looks the value one. They'll take 3k of the yellow vote (even in a university town) while Cons seep a little to UKIP, that'll be enough. I make Lab 1/2.
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    PP not quoting on this market but they're going 7/4 Cons in Sth Thanet now which I'm on at. Looks a good Tory hold to me, whoever stands for UKIP.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    I don't believe the Ashcroft finding of minimal incumbency. Marginals polling is hard and a disproportionately strong performance be incumbents is as close as you get to a universal rule of politics.

    I'd favour Lab in this seat thanks to all those juicy, squeezable LibDems, but not by much.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    I think this seat goes Labour - Just, 10-11 is correct... Evens the Cons.

    No bet though.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Was swing "uniform" at the last GE? I seem to recall swing figs that were either just about nothing to double digit.
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255
    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.
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    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.
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    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
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    Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    The reshuffle increases the likelihood of BREXIT. IndyRef punters take note.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2014

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Labour looks the value one. They'll take 3k of the yellow vote (even in a university town) while Cons seep a little to UKIP, that'll be enough. I make Lab 1/2.

    I know Loughborough well having canvassed their for Labour in 1997. The seat consists mostly of the town itself, but also a couple of nearby villages. Both Shepshed and Barrow on Soar have fairly traditional estates, the other villages are more leafy. Loughborough itself is a fairly standard Midlands engineering town but also a University town. The University is particularly strong in Science and Sport science. There has been a lot of new science based industry over recent years, but also the loss of a major employer in Astra Zenica. There is a modest Asian population often of Bengali or Gujerati origin. I did suggest it for one of Jack Ws dozen.

    I think the Labour vote is fairly WWC and may not be enthused by Milibandism. The LD vote will be squeezed particularly by tactical voting and Tuition fees. There is a not insignificant BNP vote in recent years that should go UKIP but I do not think it very fertile kipper territory. Nicky Morgan is a popular MP who does good constituency work.

    It will be close either way, but looks like a Labour gain to me. If Nicky Morgan does well with the Education brief she may hang on, Universities fall outside her patch but are particularly influenced by educational issues generally.

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    The one card they had left was civil liberties, and they just set it on fire.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    The one card they had left was civil liberties, and they just set it on fire.
    Clegg is leading a suicide mission ahis troops are joining the jihad. Clegg reckons he will still be DPM. What do others think ? EXMP ?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    I think she works the Constituency well, but Andy Reid was good at this also for Labour. I agree the demographics of the area are moving Tory. The once adjacent marginal NW Leics now looks like a Tory hold, though kippers may do well there picking up the anti HS2 vote and significant BNP sector.
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    “vegetarian head of the pork pie society”. – is this a euphemism for something unspeakable?
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    Securing the Education brief will raise her profile considerably as well as introducing a "pride" factor into the thinking of the good people of Loughborough.
    I lived in a similar nearby constituency which had a high profile Labour MP and I experienced this factor myself when canvassing for the Young Conservatives, many,many moons ago.
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    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
    Thought so - I believe we support the same football team!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    Not all 2010 Lib Dems are going Labour, by any means. This morning's Yougov poll has them breaking Lab 32%, Con 19%, UKIP 11%.

    A boost from first-time incumbency is pretty much assured, unless that incumbent has made herself unpopular. By all accounts, Nicky Morgan is well-regarded locally.

    Allowing for this, I'd say she's really starting with a lead of 10% or so. Labour have to be 4% ahead on the day to be favourites here.
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    FWIW Martin Baxter has Labour winning this constituency with 40.7% of the vote over the Tories' 35.3%, but of course this is based on current polls and excludes special factors.
    He, Baxter, also has Simon Hughes losing in Bermondsey with 28.9%, well behind his predicted share for Labour of 36.1%.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
    Ditto. TFS is also fairly local.

    Focussing on particular marginals may make for interesting threads and betting tips over the summer.

    LDs will be vanishing here, but not all to Labour.
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    FalseFlagFalseFlag Posts: 1,801

    Was swing "uniform" at the last GE? I seem to recall swing figs that were either just about nothing to double digit.

    Postal 'votes' varied significantly. Wonder what effect tighter voting processes will have?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobbaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...
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    FWIW Martin Baxter has Labour winning this constituency with 40.7% of the vote over the Tories' 35.3%, but of course this is based on current polls and excludes special factors.
    He, Baxter, also has Simon Hughes losing in Bermondsey with 28.9%, well behind his predicted share for Labour of 36.1%.

    I omitted to mention that in Bermondsey, Shadsy has Labour on offer at 2/1 no less ..... don't all rush at once.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobbaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...

    I don't think that alien is the same as weird. It's not a judgement about him personally. I agree with Bob about the weird meme. And I did enjoy the link someone provided the other day to an article that looks at the journalists who so frequently describe him as weird.

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JackW said:



    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    That's absolutely right @DavidL has made some very persuasive arguments as to why this election landscape will be closer to 2005 than the optimal efficency that Labour achieved in 2010
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    JackW said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    Back in 2001, it was estimated Labour would be 130 seats ahead of the Conservatives, with equal vote shares. Now, that lead has been whittled down to 30 or so.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...

    I don't think that alien is the same as weird. It's not a judgement about him personally. I agree with Bob about the weird meme. And I did enjoy the link someone provided the other day to an article that looks at the journalists who so frequently describe him as weird.

    I missed that - if you can repost it might be amusing...
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2014
    JackW said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    You could be right but you could just as easily be wrong !

    Here's why.

    The Tories could achieve a seat advantage over Labour on a smaller swing. Yes, of course, it is possible.

    But to achieve that they have to do disproportionately better in precisely the marginals the two will be at loggerheads; both CON-LAB as well as LAB-CON.

    In this "game" both parties, indeed all parties, know the score. Amongst "all" I am including both GE2010 LD's and, to help the Tories, the current UKIPers.

    It is perfectly possible, more so than in other places, the red GE2010 LD's will move to Labour on a larger than normal switch AND some UKIPers will return to the Tory mother more than elsewhere despite what some of the vociferous kippers in PB say.

    The beauty of UNS is that it is assumed that all these counter currents even out.

    But the Tories have not done well in marginals before. E.g 1992 as well as 2010. In both the Tories had big electoral leads, 1992 gave a majority of +21. 2010 , as we know, -34.

    Let's see what pans out. I think on low swing rates, UNS works quite well. In fact, red LD's and UKIPers might even assist Labour.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    JackW said:



    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    That's absolutely right @DavidL has made some very persuasive arguments as to why this election landscape will be closer to 2005 than the optimal efficency that Labour achieved in 2010
    2005 is a wrong year to choose. Many natural Labour voters including me voted for Kennedy on Iraq or abstained. My vote was in Brentford and Isleworth. It was not a tactical vote. It was an anti Blair vote and Ann Keen supported the war !

    2010 is more normal.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,783
    Dave's Juncker bounce didn't last long:

    Sticks to what he believes in: 25 (-6)

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/z70f0ypdyt/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-150714.pdf
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:



    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    That's absolutely right @DavidL has made some very persuasive arguments as to why this election landscape will be closer to 2005 than the optimal efficency that Labour achieved in 2010
    2005 is a wrong year to choose. Many natural Labour voters including me voted for Kennedy on Iraq or abstained. My vote was in Brentford and Isleworth. It was not a tactical vote. It was an anti Blair vote and Ann Keen supported the war !

    2010 is more normal.
    It's not really focusing on the result, but on the efficiency of the vote.

    As I understand it, in 2010 there were a lot of non-voters in Labour heartlands which didn't impact the seat tally. Consequently they got a lot more seats than you might expect for 29% of the vote.

    To the extent that this is reversed - EdM is new, appeals to the old core, etc - then you could gain significant vote share but no seats as the effect unwinds.
  • Options
    GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    Completely OT but it appears that the woes at the passport office have been resolved.

    I posted my renewal application on the day before news broke of delays in the system, and my replacement passport arrived 30 days later. My son posted his renewal application off last Wednesday, and his replacement arrived yesterday. Both were standard renewals.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    Back in 2001, it was estimated Labour would be 130 seats ahead of the Conservatives, with equal vote shares. Now, that lead has been whittled down to 30 or so.
    I find that rather difficult to accept. Labour had a 9% lead and a majority of 167. Are you saying that on a 0% lead it would have been 130, Really ?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Charles said:

    surbiton said:

    Charles said:

    JackW said:



    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    That's absolutely right @DavidL has made some very persuasive arguments as to why this election landscape will be closer to 2005 than the optimal efficency that Labour achieved in 2010
    2005 is a wrong year to choose. Many natural Labour voters including me voted for Kennedy on Iraq or abstained. My vote was in Brentford and Isleworth. It was not a tactical vote. It was an anti Blair vote and Ann Keen supported the war !

    2010 is more normal.
    It's not really focusing on the result, but on the efficiency of the vote.

    As I understand it, in 2010 there were a lot of non-voters in Labour heartlands which didn't impact the seat tally. Consequently they got a lot more seats than you might expect for 29% of the vote.

    To the extent that this is reversed - EdM is new, appeals to the old core, etc - then you could gain significant vote share but no seats as the effect unwinds.
    My understanding is that in the 105 seats, Labour will do better than expected. There are good reasons to believe that.

    Having said that, Newark showed the Tories have sharpened up their game which was to be honest dreadful. However, how much attention they can devote in a General Election remains to be seen.

    British elections need foot soldiers !

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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    I live in the constituency. Nicky Morgan is certainly trying hard to put herself around and Labour are not very visible. I assume the thinking is that students are Labour's key support here. The turnout in the non-Loughborough parts of the constituency will be high and substantially Conservative.

    Otherwise, I had understood from here that incumbency was critical to the LDs outperforming. Have I got that wrong or are there significant caveats for first time MPs/ conservatives looking to it?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855
    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    Back in 2001, it was estimated Labour would be 130 seats ahead of the Conservatives, with equal vote shares. Now, that lead has been whittled down to 30 or so.
    I find that rather difficult to accept. Labour had a 9% lead and a majority of 167. Are you saying that on a 0% lead it would have been 130, Really ?

    Labour had a lead of 247 seats over the Conservatives.

  • Options
    woody662woody662 Posts: 255

    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
    Thought so - I believe we support the same football team!
    The Mighty Rams.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,427
    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    Back in 2001, it was estimated Labour would be 130 seats ahead of the Conservatives, with equal vote shares. Now, that lead has been whittled down to 30 or so.
    I find that rather difficult to accept. Labour had a 9% lead and a majority of 167. Are you saying that on a 0% lead it would have been 130, Really ?
    No that isn't what is being stated. It is the lead over Tories only which in 2001 was 240 odd seats.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    The problem with the analysis is that in the election UKIP are very likely to get a lot of votes for little recognition in terms of number of seats. As this will affect the tories most, and will probably affect more the seats where it doesn't matter then this will 'hollow out the tory vote and mean that previous anaysis will overestimate % lead required.

    Conversely a lot of the vote that has been lost from the libdems was previous tactiical voters who voted to keep the tories out and ended up with them anyway, and alos the deluded element who seemed to think that a junior partner in a coalition dictates terms and gets to enact their whole manifesto., and this should lead to their vote being much more efficient, and the labour vote should be inflated with some wasted votes..

    Therefore I think it is not entirely correct to say "In fact the Tories would still be losing seats to LAB even if they had a 6% national vote lead." Whilst this is possible it is not fact and some of the factors which have led to that assumption could easily fall away
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...

    I don't think that alien is the same as weird. It's not a judgement about him personally. I agree with Bob about the weird meme. And I did enjoy the link someone provided the other day to an article that looks at the journalists who so frequently describe him as weird.

    I missed that - if you can repost it might be amusing...

    Here you go ...

    http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/these-people-say-ed-is-weird.html

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ToryJim said:

    surbiton said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    The problem with this thread is that if your mother had testicles then she'd be your father .... unless of course you live in rural Norfolk.

    Fortunately in rural Hertfordshire the sun is shining on the righteous and all genitalia is exactly where it should be.

    UNS is of course fun and allows us to play with various tools .... Oh er missus .... but it's relevance to individual seats is questionable.

    We must also be careful not to ascribe to the coming election some "certainties" that are almost certainly far from certain anymore - especially the theory of the certainty of a large Conservative lead - 6/7% required before the Conservative achieve a seat advantage over Labour.

    There is one certainty this morning .... Mrs JackW and I will enjoy a hearty breakfast on the terrace where UNS - Unlimited Northumberland Sausages will come fully into play.

    Back in 2001, it was estimated Labour would be 130 seats ahead of the Conservatives, with equal vote shares. Now, that lead has been whittled down to 30 or so.
    I find that rather difficult to accept. Labour had a 9% lead and a majority of 167. Are you saying that on a 0% lead it would have been 130, Really ?
    No that isn't what is being stated. It is the lead over Tories only which in 2001 was 240 odd seats.
    Yes, it is difficult to believe that it was like Germany vs Brazil.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Dave's Juncker bounce didn't last long:

    Sticks to what he believes in: 25 (-6)

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/z70f0ypdyt/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-150714.pdf

    Only 25% of GE2010 Lib Dems support LD now. Clegg has undone 40 years of hard work in 4 years.
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    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited July 2014

    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
    Ditto. TFS is also fairly local.

    Focussing on particular marginals may make for interesting threads and betting tips over the summer.

    LDs will be vanishing here, but not all to Labour.
    I was born and raised in Barrow Upon Soar, and lived and worked in Loughborough for a large chunk of my adult life. I now live in one of the leafy villages, so Nicky Morgan is my MP, and the soon to be inadequately crewed Loughborough is my local Fire station.

    Andy Reed, the previous Labour incumbant was a popular local figure, but more interested in playing Rugby, and blindly voting whatever way the whips told him to vote.
    Morgan is cut from the same cloth. Likes to get in the Loughborough Echo, pretty much toes the party line.

    The Labour ppc doesn't seem up to much, the Lib Dems are nowhere. UKIP don't have much of a presence, and, hopefully, the BNP are a busted flush.

    Not a lot going for any of 'em, really. I'll keep you posted!

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...

    I don't think that alien is the same as weird. It's not a judgement about him personally. I agree with Bob about the weird meme. And I did enjoy the link someone provided the other day to an article that looks at the journalists who so frequently describe him as weird.

    I missed that - if you can repost it might be amusing...

    Here you go ...

    http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/these-people-say-ed-is-weird.html

    Ta.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good morning.

    The reshuffle has not been completed and it already looks like a mini civil war may have started in the Tory party. Depending on what happens, it could blow up to a full scale fight just when Cammo has sought to calm the waters.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/07/the-dumbed-down-reshuffle.html
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,524
    edited July 2014
    I'm shocked and appalled.

    A vastly qualified. experienced chap replaced by a WOMAN! A WOMAN!

    It makes no sense, it's a mistake, and you know it's going to end very badly.

    Marvel Comics recasts superhero Thor as a woman

    Character based on the hammer-wielding god of thunder from Norse myth is swapping sex in a new series due in October

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/15/thor-is-a-woman-in-new-marvel-comicbook-series

    (Yes, I know I said the same about when they cast a woman as Starbuck)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    edited July 2014
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, surely she'd be Thora? Or Thorkatla? [I was flicking through the names in the back of Njal's Saga the other day].

    Not seen the Thor films, but I'm surprised that didn't just go for a female character, such as Freyja.

    I think this sort of thing only matters if the demographic in question is a key aspect of the character. So, James Bond could easily be black or ethnically Asian/Chinese, but would always have to be a British man.

    I do wonder if this is just about creating PR to try and keep Marvel's immense momentum going, but could easily be seen as gimmicky and tokenism.

    Edited extra bit: also, Supermodels of SHIELD annoyed me with their Asgard episode. I think it's fine to have a world where men and women are the same, or one where you go for differences, but you can't have women be equally competent and men hamstrung by ye olde traditional weaknesses. It's just inconsistent.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,524
    edited July 2014

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, surely she'd be Thora? Or Thorkatla? [I was flicking through the names in the back of Njal's Saga the other day].

    Not seen the Thor films, but I'm surprised that didn't just go for a female character, such as Freyja.

    I think this sort of thing only matters if the demographic in question is a key aspect of the character. So, James Bond could easily be black or ethnically Asian/Chinese, but would always have to be a British man.

    I do wonder if this is just about creating PR to try and keep Marvel's immense momentum going, but could easily be seen as gimmicky and tokenism.

    They should have gone for Lady Sif, played by Jaime Alexander

    http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/67939-discover-jaimie-alexanders-beauty-secret-at-thor-premiere-in-revealing-dress/1383947617_jaimie-alexander-zoom.jpg

    I'd do horrible, unforgivable things for a chance to swing my hammer at her.

    You should see The Thor films and The Avengers, Chris Hemsworth is brilliant as Thor, but the star is Tom Hiddleston as Loki.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    2013 CC results from the divisions making up the Loughborough Parliamentary seat

    Lab 9464
    Con 8063
    LDem 1419
    UKIP 1292
    Others 1177 .
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,524
    You'll be delighted to know, I've started doing some analysis going back to 1970, to see if cabinet ministers suffer larger swings against them at an election or not.

    I hope to have this done by next week.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    F1: only from Twitter so I'll await 'proper' confirmation but it sounds like there's no frelling FRIC agreement.

    Nice for Force India, perhaps helpful for Williams/Red Bull.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941

    I'm shocked and appalled.

    A vastly qualified. experienced chap replaced by a WOMAN! A WOMAN!

    It makes no sense, it's a mistake, and you know it's going to end very badly.

    Marvel Comics recasts superhero Thor as a woman

    Character based on the hammer-wielding god of thunder from Norse myth is swapping sex in a new series due in October

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/15/thor-is-a-woman-in-new-marvel-comicbook-series

    (Yes, I know I said the same about when they cast a woman as Starbuck)

    What next ?

    Angelina Jolie as Blade ?

    I've heard that she isn't actually Thor, she just finds his hammer and so gets his err powers though ... ?

  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,855

    I'm shocked and appalled.

    A vastly qualified. experienced chap replaced by a WOMAN! A WOMAN!

    It makes no sense, it's a mistake, and you know it's going to end very badly.

    Marvel Comics recasts superhero Thor as a woman

    Character based on the hammer-wielding god of thunder from Norse myth is swapping sex in a new series due in October

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/15/thor-is-a-woman-in-new-marvel-comicbook-series

    (Yes, I know I said the same about when they cast a woman as Starbuck)

    Presumably, a god can change sex at will.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    edited July 2014
    Mr. Eagles, is Lady Sif's actress (who I rather liked in Agents of SHIELD) American? She seemed to have a flawless English accent but pronounced swathe as 'swoth' rather than 'swaythe'.

    Edited extra bit: and whilst we're miles off-topic, the first two Honor Harrington books by David Weber are currently free on Amazon (e-book only, of course). Not read any of his stuff before, but £0 is precisely in my preferred price range.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. F, not so sure. If Norse gods had such power to alter their form surely Odin would've grown a second eye some time ago?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    woody662 said:

    woody662 said:

    A few things to consider with this seat. Firstly Nicky Morgan was up against a popular incumbent last time which boosted the labour vote a little, this time she is up against the vegetarian head of the pork pie society!!. Secondly the demographics in this part of the East Midlands are moving towards the Tories, labour frequently moan about this. Nicky Morgan does plenty of local stuff, keeps a newspaper column ect and will no doubt have built up some incumbency vote. The Tories will throw the kitchen sink at her seat and I don't think she will motivate people to vote against her.

    No such thing as a uniform swing, far better bets than 10-11 on labour here.

    Is this your own constituency Woody?
    I'm next door.
    Ditto. TFS is also fairly local.

    Focussing on particular marginals may make for interesting threads and betting tips over the summer.

    LDs will be vanishing here, but not all to Labour.
    I was born and raised in Barrow Upon Soar, and lived and worked in Loughborough for a large chunk of my adult life. I now live in one of the leafy villages, so Nicky Morgan is my MP, and the soon to be inadequately crewed Loughborough is my local Fire station.

    Andy Reed, the previous Labour incumbant was a popular local figure, but more interested in playing Rugby, and blindly voting whatever way the whips told him to vote.
    Morgan is cut from the same cloth. Likes to get in the Loughborough Echo, pretty much toes the party line.

    The Labour ppc doesn't seem up to much, the Lib Dems are nowhere. UKIP don't have much of a presence, and, hopefully, the BNP are a busted flush.

    Not a lot going for any of 'em, really. I'll keep you posted!

    It does look a straight Con/Lab fight. I do some occasional clinics at Loughborough hospital so pass the firestation frequently on Epinal Way.

    Quite a pleasant little town, Loughborough, and very efficient community hospital.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,524

    Mr. Eagles, is Lady Sif's actress (who I rather liked in Agents of SHIELD) American? She seemed to have a flawless English accent but pronounced swathe as 'swoth' rather than 'swaythe'.

    Edited extra bit: and whilst we're miles off-topic, the first two Honor Harrington books by David Weber are currently free on Amazon (e-book only, of course). Not read any of his stuff before, but £0 is precisely in my preferred price range.

    Yes she is American.
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Polls, Statistics and Roundings.

    Looking at the numbers behind today's YouGov, (34/38/6/13) the VI for each party becomes:
    Cons: 34.46; LAB: 37.99; LD: 6.37; UKIP: 13.05.
    So LAB lead of 3.53.

    Yesterday;s YouGov of 35/38/8/10 becomes:
    Cons: 34.6; LAB: 37.6; LD: 7.8; UKIP: 10.2

    So LD have lost 1.43 between the two polls.

    This month the LD2010 retained VI has ranged from 25-36, whilst in June the range was: 24-32., and in May 24-39.
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    woody662woody662 Posts: 255

    2013 CC results from the divisions making up the Loughborough Parliamentary seat

    Lab 9464
    Con 8063
    LDem 1419
    UKIP 1292
    Others 1177 .

    A 7-10% Labour lead at that point so that's encouraging for a Tory hold. Very low UKIP vote, In NW Leics by contrast it was:

    Lab 7993 (35.1%)
    Con 7088 (31.1%)
    UKIP 5584 (24.5%)
    LD 2034 (8.9%)

  • Options
    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Financier said:

    Polls, Statistics and Roundings.

    Looking at the numbers behind today's YouGov, (34/38/6/13) the VI for each party becomes:
    Cons: 34.46; LAB: 37.99; LD: 6.37; UKIP: 13.05.
    So LAB lead of 3.53.

    Yesterday;s YouGov of 35/38/8/10 becomes:
    Cons: 34.6; LAB: 37.6; LD: 7.8; UKIP: 10.2

    So LD have lost 1.43 between the two polls.

    This month the LD2010 retained VI has ranged from 25-36, whilst in June the range was: 24-32., and in May 24-39.

    False precision. There is no point going down to decimal places when the MOE is +\- 3%
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    matt said:

    I live in the constituency. Nicky Morgan is certainly trying hard to put herself around and Labour are not very visible. I assume the thinking is that students are Labour's key support here. The turnout in the non-Loughborough parts of the constituency will be high and substantially Conservative.

    Otherwise, I had understood from here that incumbency was critical to the LDs outperforming. Have I got that wrong or are there significant caveats for first time MPs/ conservatives looking to it?

    I don't think the LD performance will be affected either way by the economy. Insofar as people vote according to that, they credit or criticise Osborne. I have some links with the Loughborough Labour campaign, where they are certainly working hard (500 contacts last weekend alone). They're reasonably hopeful.

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    I wouldn't read much into one LD poll - I bet they're back at 8 or so tonight. Note that the difference to ICM may be entirely due to methodology. ICM do their spiral thing (which just affected 1 point this time), but they also weight for past voting, discounting 2010 non-voters, which IMO is dangerous in obvious marginals (where people get dragged out in the end).

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Mr. Fett, doesn't a similar thing occur with GDP estimates, though?
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    On the assumption that name recognition plays some role in helping the more well known candidates get elected then I suspect Dave has given eg Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan etc a slightly improved chance of success in 2015.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...

    I don't think that alien is the same as weird. It's not a judgement about him personally. I agree with Bob about the weird meme. And I did enjoy the link someone provided the other day to an article that looks at the journalists who so frequently describe him as weird.

    I missed that - if you can repost it might be amusing...
    Yes - please do. I suspect it will be entertaining!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    Sean_F said:

    I'm shocked and appalled.

    A vastly qualified. experienced chap replaced by a WOMAN! A WOMAN!

    It makes no sense, it's a mistake, and you know it's going to end very badly.

    Marvel Comics recasts superhero Thor as a woman

    Character based on the hammer-wielding god of thunder from Norse myth is swapping sex in a new series due in October

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jul/15/thor-is-a-woman-in-new-marvel-comicbook-series

    (Yes, I know I said the same about when they cast a woman as Starbuck)

    Presumably, a god can change sex at will.

    Didn't one of the Greek gods do that occasionally? Seem to remember some city somewhere doing so!
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Charles said:

    Not my part of the Midlands, but my sense is that in places like Loughborough and Leamington (which I do know well) Labour is not going to make the advances it needs to win a majority. Ed is just too alien to get out the vote. I would not be surprised to see Nicky Morgan increase her majority after yesterday's promotion.

    Expect a fierce slapping from BobbaFett for you use of an unapproved and sinister meme...
    You too get a minor disintegration this morning Charles: just the two bs in Boba
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    King Cole, there are two figures you could be thinking of.

    The first was a chap who got turned into a lady and then back into a chap (not sure if his name was actually Hermaphrodite, but it might've been). He annoyed Hera by telling her (to settle an argument between her and Zeus) women enjoyed sex more than men.

    The other's Dionysus, who is best thought of as a cross between Freddie Krueger and Freddie Mercury. He's a drunken, murderous, cross-dressing party god, far darker and more vicious than the Roman equivalent Bacchus.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    woody662 said:

    2013 CC results from the divisions making up the Loughborough Parliamentary seat

    Lab 9464
    Con 8063
    LDem 1419
    UKIP 1292
    Others 1177 .

    A 7-10% Labour lead at that point so that's encouraging for a Tory hold. Very low UKIP vote, In NW Leics by contrast it was:

    Lab 7993 (35.1%)
    Con 7088 (31.1%)
    UKIP 5584 (24.5%)
    LD 2034 (8.9%)

    In NW Leics the previously strong BNP vote seems to have gone. HS2 may affect things here but Bridgen has been very vocal against. I think he will hold on. This is a less marginal seat.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    matt said:

    I live in the constituency. Nicky Morgan is certainly trying hard to put herself around and Labour are not very visible. I assume the thinking is that students are Labour's key support here. The turnout in the non-Loughborough parts of the constituency will be high and substantially Conservative.

    Otherwise, I had understood from here that incumbency was critical to the LDs outperforming. Have I got that wrong or are there significant caveats for first time MPs/ conservatives looking to it?

    I don't think the LD performance will be affected either way by the economy. Insofar as people vote according to that, they credit or criticise Osborne. I have some links with the Loughborough Labour campaign, where they are certainly working hard (500 contacts last weekend alone). They're reasonably hopeful.

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    I wouldn't read much into one LD poll - I bet they're back at 8 or so tonight. Note that the difference to ICM may be entirely due to methodology. ICM do their spiral thing (which just affected 1 point this time), but they also weight for past voting, discounting 2010 non-voters, which IMO is dangerous in obvious marginals (where people get dragged out in the end).

    I'm not sure that turnout is noticeably higher in marginal seats than elsewhere. If memory serves me well (it possibly doesn't) the top seats in that respect are safe Tory ones (like mine in leafy Surrey)
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, surely she'd be Thora? Or Thorkatla? [I was flicking through the names in the back of Njal's Saga the other day].

    Not seen the Thor films, but I'm surprised that didn't just go for a female character, such as Freyja.

    I think this sort of thing only matters if the demographic in question is a key aspect of the character. So, James Bond could easily be black or ethnically Asian/Chinese, but would always have to be a British man.

    I do wonder if this is just about creating PR to try and keep Marvel's immense momentum going, but could easily be seen as gimmicky and tokenism.

    Edited extra bit: also, Supermodels of SHIELD annoyed me with their Asgard episode. I think it's fine to have a world where men and women are the same, or one where you go for differences, but you can't have women be equally competent and men hamstrung by ye olde traditional weaknesses. It's just inconsistent.

    In Discworld (Terry Pratchett) one is unable to establish a dwarf's sex by either dress or mannerism. IIRC the identification is made by females having a greater fondness for ornaments.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    matt said:

    I live in the constituency. Nicky Morgan is certainly trying hard to put herself around and Labour are not very visible. I assume the thinking is that students are Labour's key support here. The turnout in the non-Loughborough parts of the constituency will be high and substantially Conservative.

    Otherwise, I had understood from here that incumbency was critical to the LDs outperforming. Have I got that wrong or are there significant caveats for first time MPs/ conservatives looking to it?

    I don't think the LD performance will be affected either way by the economy. Insofar as people vote according to that, they credit or criticise Osborne. I have some links with the Loughborough Labour campaign, where they are certainly working hard (500 contacts last weekend alone). They're reasonably hopeful.

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    I wouldn't read much into one LD poll - I bet they're back at 8 or so tonight. Note that the difference to ICM may be entirely due to methodology. ICM do their spiral thing (which just affected 1 point this time), but they also weight for past voting, discounting 2010 non-voters, which IMO is dangerous in obvious marginals (where people get dragged out in the end).

    Andy Reid was the New Labour stereotype. He got rather lost in the pack, but might have done more in government if there was a smaller Blair majority. Before that Labour had not done well in Loughborough, albeit on different boundaries as I recall.

    I have it as a Labour gain.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, surely she'd be Thora? Or Thorkatla? [I was flicking through the names in the back of Njal's Saga the other day].

    Not seen the Thor films, but I'm surprised that didn't just go for a female character, such as Freyja.

    I think this sort of thing only matters if the demographic in question is a key aspect of the character. So, James Bond could easily be black or ethnically Asian/Chinese, but would always have to be a British man.

    I do wonder if this is just about creating PR to try and keep Marvel's immense momentum going, but could easily be seen as gimmicky and tokenism.

    Edited extra bit: also, Supermodels of SHIELD annoyed me with their Asgard episode. I think it's fine to have a world where men and women are the same, or one where you go for differences, but you can't have women be equally competent and men hamstrung by ye olde traditional weaknesses. It's just inconsistent.

    In Discworld (Terry Pratchett) one is unable to establish a dwarf's sex by either dress or mannerism. IIRC the identification is made by females having a greater fondness for ornaments.
    Or beard. Their King turned out to be a woman in the last one.
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    macisbackmacisback Posts: 382
    I would expect with a fair wind between now and the election the Tories to go well in the East Midlands, with those odds I would be putting my money on the Tories ahead of Labour. This seat in the main is a nice place to live, Morgan should hold this with reasonable comfort. I don't see any great passion for Labour in this sort of area and in the wwc chunks of which there are a few UKIP will take a chunk of Labour's vote.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    King Cole, the question of whether (fantasy) female dwarves should have beards or not is a deep and difficult philosophical question.

    May change my mind (still on the first draft), but so far the Fettered (humanoid, claws, small tusks, really rough skin) are neuter. Also got a neuter cyborg-bear alien with a poor grasp of social boundaries in a short story [no idea if that'll get published or not].

    There are issues with representations of certain groups in fantasy/sci-fi, but also a risk of trying to impose modern moral standards on a world which in most/all other regards is genuinely medieval.

    I'm not a fan of people who claim equality = wonderful, and then write a storyline about men being led around by their trousers. Reminds me of the 'Minister for Women and Equalities' self-parody.

    Ahem, rambling a bit now. And I've got a main character to kill (possibly).
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    JohnO said:

    matt said:

    I live in the constituency. Nicky Morgan is certainly trying hard to put herself around and Labour are not very visible. I assume the thinking is that students are Labour's key support here. The turnout in the non-Loughborough parts of the constituency will be high and substantially Conservative.

    Otherwise, I had understood from here that incumbency was critical to the LDs outperforming. Have I got that wrong or are there significant caveats for first time MPs/ conservatives looking to it?

    I don't think the LD performance will be affected either way by the economy. Insofar as people vote according to that, they credit or criticise Osborne. I have some links with the Loughborough Labour campaign, where they are certainly working hard (500 contacts last weekend alone). They're reasonably hopeful.

    Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th July - Con 34%, Lab 38%, LD 6%, UKIP 13%

    No sign of the Tories repeating that ICM feat with YouGov where Labour's lead remains firm and resolute.

    Morning all.

    Last night’s YG poll was an equal/historic low for the Lib Dem at just 6%. - they've lost 40% of their entire support since the end of last week.

    35 seats at the next GE is starting to look a tad optimistic.
    I wouldn't read much into one LD poll - I bet they're back at 8 or so tonight. Note that the difference to ICM may be entirely due to methodology. ICM do their spiral thing (which just affected 1 point this time), but they also weight for past voting, discounting 2010 non-voters, which IMO is dangerous in obvious marginals (where people get dragged out in the end).

    I'm not sure that turnout is noticeably higher in marginal seats than elsewhere. If memory serves me well (it possibly doesn't) the top seats in that respect are safe Tory ones (like mine in leafy Surrey)
    Which is what makes the Tory vote so inefficient. But then again us leafy Surrey types have potentially alot more to lose from a Red Ed administration.
  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    BobaFett said:

    Financier said:

    Polls, Statistics and Roundings.

    Looking at the numbers behind today's YouGov, (34/38/6/13) the VI for each party becomes:
    Cons: 34.46; LAB: 37.99; LD: 6.37; UKIP: 13.05.
    So LAB lead of 3.53.

    Yesterday;s YouGov of 35/38/8/10 becomes:
    Cons: 34.6; LAB: 37.6; LD: 7.8; UKIP: 10.2

    So LD have lost 1.43 between the two polls.

    This month the LD2010 retained VI has ranged from 25-36, whilst in June the range was: 24-32., and in May 24-39.

    False precision. There is no point going down to decimal places when the MOE is +\- 3%
    So with an average YouGov Labour lead for July at 3.4, we can expect silence from you unless it reaches 7 or 0??
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,343
    edited July 2014
    At the risk of boring everyone by repetition my theory that @Charles is referring assumes:

    1. That Labour turnout is likely to be better in their safe seats than 2010.
    2. Most significantly that lots of tactical voters who supported the Lib Dems in seats Labour has no chance in will vote Labour in disgust. These are wasted votes which will reduce Labour's efficiency.
    3. That the tory tendency to pile up wasted super majorities in safe seats will be moderated by UKIP.
    4. That if the tories are ahead in the overall vote then as a matter of logic they will be doing better in the marginals than they did the last time since their votes have to come from somewhere.
    5. That picking up Lib Dem seats in the SW will improve tory efficiency because they had lots of good seconds there the last time. And as some say in F1 second is first loser.

    Loughborough will be an interesting test of the theory but it is important to remember the last result was achieved on a 7% lead for the tories. Even if they were 3% ahead this time that is a 2% swing against our new Secretary of State for Education. She is swimming up river on any result that looks remotely likely at the moment.

    My guess is that her profile and first time incumbency will save her but it will not be easy or other than close.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    ICM data tables not up yet ?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    JohnO said:



    I'm not sure that turnout is noticeably higher in marginal seats than elsewhere. If memory serves me well (it possibly doesn't) the top seats in that respect are safe Tory ones (like mine in leafy Surrey)

    Turnout is generally good in safe Tory seats AND marginals. It sucks in inner-city safe Labour seats, where turnover is high (thus a chunk of the electorate has moved by polling day), giving the effect Mike refers to. So ICM's downrating of people who didn't turn out in 2010 is a good model for inner cities, but that's not where the election will be won or lost.

    Kirkup - mysteriously dropped from the Telegraph's daily e-briefing - is interesting as usual, this time on the parallels between Gove and Lansley:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10969813/Gove-pays-price-for-picking-one-fight-too-many.html

    Essentially Cameron isn't loyal to mould-breakers when the backlash gets too fierce. That's not making a judgement on whether the respective moulds needed breaking, just a mangement style observation. The parallels with Blair break down on that - Blair's instinct when he encountered opposition was to give a zillion interviews with the fiercest critics and try to turn opinion around: my impression was that he positively enjoyed the process and would have liked a Euro referendum partly for the sheer fun of taking on and perhaps changing public opinion. Cameron lets the changes quietly take effect and then dismisses the architect.

    Clearly some of their respective changes were good and some not, and we could argue about that. But management style is important as a motivator for Ministers.

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Financier said:

    BobaFett said:

    Financier said:

    Polls, Statistics and Roundings.

    Looking at the numbers behind today's YouGov, (34/38/6/13) the VI for each party becomes:
    Cons: 34.46; LAB: 37.99; LD: 6.37; UKIP: 13.05.
    So LAB lead of 3.53.

    Yesterday;s YouGov of 35/38/8/10 becomes:
    Cons: 34.6; LAB: 37.6; LD: 7.8; UKIP: 10.2

    So LD have lost 1.43 between the two polls.

    This month the LD2010 retained VI has ranged from 25-36, whilst in June the range was: 24-32., and in May 24-39.

    False precision. There is no point going down to decimal places when the MOE is +\- 3%
    So with an average YouGov Labour lead for July at 3.4, we can expect silence from you unless it reaches 7 or 0??
    No. I am merely saying that is is an utterly pointless exercise working out YouGov polls to decimal places.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited July 2014
    Clegg and Blair's school of choice gets a rap over the knuckles

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28319015

    "It found the school broke the code by:

    Favouring parents for giving support, such as flower-arranging"

    Immigration not an issue for Clegg

    "It found the London Oratory School had the highest proportion of "white British" pupils, the lowest proportion of "non-white" pupils and the lowest proportion of pupils of African heritage."
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,602
    BobaFett said:

    Financier said:

    Polls, Statistics and Roundings.

    Looking at the numbers behind today's YouGov, (34/38/6/13) the VI for each party becomes:
    Cons: 34.46; LAB: 37.99; LD: 6.37; UKIP: 13.05.
    So LAB lead of 3.53.

    Yesterday;s YouGov of 35/38/8/10 becomes:
    Cons: 34.6; LAB: 37.6; LD: 7.8; UKIP: 10.2

    So LD have lost 1.43 between the two polls.

    This month the LD2010 retained VI has ranged from 25-36, whilst in June the range was: 24-32., and in May 24-39.

    False precision. There is no point going down to decimal places when the MOE is +\- 3%
    On what basis do you derive a "MOE is +\- 3%" for YouGov, allowing for their (larger) sample size and the particular way they structure their sample through weighting to reduce random effects? What confidence interval are you using? Or are you just repeating what you've seen others post and assumed it to be correct?

    MOE however defined is certainly not the same for all polling companies. If you doubt me just look at the small fluctuations between successive YouGov Sunday Times polls and compare them with the huge fluctuations between successive Ashcroft polls.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Rompuy and Ashton to be replaced. Once people actually decide who their successors should be:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28316810

    I enjoyed the diagram showing how complicated the EU is. It's almost as if a confederation of 28 nation-states is a bloody stupid idea.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Last night's Yougov is the first one in Aaaaaaaaaaaagges that I note the raw Lib Dem score is weighted down (By 2) rather than up by the normal 20 or so.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Labour looks the value one. They'll take 3k of the yellow vote (even in a university town) while Cons seep a little to UKIP, that'll be enough. I make Lab 1/2.

    I know Loughborough well having canvassed their for Labour in 1997. The seat consists mostly of the town itself, but also a couple of nearby villages. Both Shepshed and Barrow on Soar have fairly traditional estates, the other villages are more leafy. Loughborough itself is a fairly standard Midlands engineering town but also a University town. The University is particularly strong in Science and Sport science. There has been a lot of new science based industry over recent years, but also the loss of a major employer in Astra Zenica. There is a modest Asian population often of Bengali or Gujerati origin. I did suggest it for one of Jack Ws dozen.

    I think the Labour vote is fairly WWC and may not be enthused by Milibandism. The LD vote will be squeezed particularly by tactical voting and Tuition fees. There is a not insignificant BNP vote in recent years that should go UKIP but I do not think it very fertile kipper territory. Nicky Morgan is a popular MP who does good constituency work.

    It will be close either way, but looks like a Labour gain to me. If Nicky Morgan does well with the Education brief she may hang on, Universities fall outside her patch but are particularly influenced by educational issues generally.
    Thanks fox.

    Also worth pointing out that Loughborough itself has a population just shy of 60,000 putting it comfortably in the range of 10,000 - 100,000 that I think of as defining the Middle England Towns and Their Hinterlands identified on pb.com as the location of most key marginals.

    If any enterprising polling company wants to know where they should target their efforts they could do a lot worse than polling just people in the postcodes covered by METTHs and forgetting the rest of the country.
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    macisback said:

    I would expect with a fair wind between now and the election the Tories to go well in the East Midlands, with those odds I would be putting my money on the Tories ahead of Labour. This seat in the main is a nice place to live, Morgan should hold this with reasonable comfort. I don't see any great passion for Labour in this sort of area and in the wwc chunks of which there are a few UKIP will take a chunk of Labour's vote.

    The surrounding villages are very pleasant, but the town itself is rundown, gridlocked, with lots of empty shops and a student population that runs riot in termtime. A few million is being spent on tarting up the town centre, but unless they get car parking sorted out, that will be a waste of money. The big, traditional industries have gone, and the loss of Astra Zeneca was a big blow to the prestige of the town.
    A recent report found that parts of the town are "virtually childless", due to the amount of family homes taken over by students. I haven't lived there for over a decade, but it was a grim place to live then, and it's only got worse.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    edited July 2014
    TGOHF said:

    ICM data tables not up yet ?

    No - it is pissing me off that the "Gold Standard" is so bloody tardy getting their data up.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    Pulpstar said:

    Last night's Yougov is the first one in Aaaaaaaaaaaagges that I note the raw Lib Dem score is weighted down (By 2) rather than up by the normal 20 or so.

    The raw numbers are more or less in line with the previous polls though... - this leads me to believe that the demographics where one might expect the Lib Dems to do relatively well are falling away just like the rest of them.

    I do howevr think in urban SW seats the Lib Dems will turn out where they face the Conservatives and they'll probably pick up a smidgen from I believe thier 'true' polling now of 8%.

    10% for the Lib Dems at the next GE...
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Mr. F, not so sure. If Norse gods had such power to alter their form surely Odin would've grown a second eye some time ago?

    Ah! But Odin is an actor and under his other name Wotan, his one eye fairly gleams over the stage. ;)
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,524
    Sleazy broken unemployment on the slide.

    Down 121k to 2.1m between March and May.

    Apologies for the lack of Yellow Boxes to greet this joyous news.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,427

    Sleazy broken unemployment on the slide.

    Down 121k to 2.1m between March and May.

    Apologies for the lack of Yellow Boxes to greet this joyous news.

    The jobs record of this government is exceptional. It must give Blanchflower 5 million nightmares.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    SAUSAGE COLLUSION
    08:58: BBC Radio 4 More on sausage-gate. Apparently the sausage makers met in a plush hotel in Hamburg and then kept in touch by phone to collude on prices, says the BBC's Steve Evans on the Today programme. There have been fines for collusion by other German manufacturers recently, including in the beer and sugar industries. Steve says people are asking if business is just too cosy in Germany.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    King Cole, the question of whether (fantasy) female dwarves should have beards or not is a deep and difficult philosophical question.

    May change my mind (still on the first draft), but so far the Fettered (humanoid, claws, small tusks, really rough skin) are neuter. Also got a neuter cyborg-bear alien with a poor grasp of social boundaries in a short story [no idea if that'll get published or not].

    There are issues with representations of certain groups in fantasy/sci-fi, but also a risk of trying to impose modern moral standards on a world which in most/all other regards is genuinely medieval.

    I'm not a fan of people who claim equality = wonderful, and then write a storyline about men being led around by their trousers. Reminds me of the 'Minister for Women and Equalities' self-parody.

    Ahem, rambling a bit now. And I've got a main character to kill (possibly).

    The advantage of writing a fantasy novel is that you are not bound by reality and human social conventions. You could create a world with three sexes, for example, or take inspiration from any number of peculiarities from the animal kingdom, such as Anglerfish, Redback spider, Seahorses, Common reed frogs, etc

    So it's really disappointing that so many fantasy novels stick rigidly to a medieval/patriarchal instead of trying something more interesting.

    I don't know if you have ever read China Mieville's book Perdido Street Station, but he did something memorably weird with an insectoid species.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    ICM data tables not up yet ?

    No - it is pissing me off that the "Gold Standard" is so bloody tardy getting their data up.
    If nothing else to check the midlands scores wrt to Loughborough.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    ICM tables still not up - Do they normally take this long ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,941
    edited July 2014
    TGOHF said:

    Pulpstar said:

    TGOHF said:

    ICM data tables not up yet ?

    No - it is pissing me off that the "Gold Standard" is so bloody tardy getting their data up.
    If nothing else to check the midlands scores wrt to Loughborough.

    At a guess I think Con would be slightly ahead of Labour in the Midlands - the Midlands & Wales crosstabs with yougov are ~ 3 pts ahead for Labour.

    Midlands ICM Lead Conservatives would be a very strong guess, but probably back from GE2010.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    King Cole, the question of whether (fantasy) female dwarves should have beards or not is a deep and difficult philosophical question.

    May change my mind (still on the first draft), but so far the Fettered (humanoid, claws, small tusks, really rough skin) are neuter. Also got a neuter cyborg-bear alien with a poor grasp of social boundaries in a short story [no idea if that'll get published or not].

    There are issues with representations of certain groups in fantasy/sci-fi, but also a risk of trying to impose modern moral standards on a world which in most/all other regards is genuinely medieval.

    I'm not a fan of people who claim equality = wonderful, and then write a storyline about men being led around by their trousers. Reminds me of the 'Minister for Women and Equalities' self-parody.

    Ahem, rambling a bit now. And I've got a main character to kill (possibly).

    Orcs (Tolkien) are asexual IIRC. However, Tolkien doesn't seem to concern himself much with reproductive possibilities. Probably down to a) a Victorian upbringing and b) being an Oxford don.
    Can you direct me to some of your published works, Mr Dancer. PM if preferred.
This discussion has been closed.