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  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    isam said:


    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ukip being squeezed. Hodges may remain covered yet.

    Predicting doom for UKIP again the minute a poll comes out?! haha don't let us bother you so!

    YouGov always understate
    YouGov, that was the most accurate pollster at the Euros?
    Oh we can all play this game!

    "Euros are different to GE" etc etc


    I thought either you or Mike wrote a header showing YouGov overstated Lab and Con and understated UKIP?

    So we aren't to mention it? Its invalid because of the Euro polls?
    Understated UKIP by 0.2%
    Oh right haha fair enough

    Maybe it really is all over for UKIP

    You really need to stop taking any observations/analysis or predictions of UKIP not performing at the same level at the general election as they are now, as a personal attack.

    Sean Fear who knows more than you and I about polling and campaigning and is a Kipper expects UKIP to poll 8%-12%
    I just pulled TGOHF up because whenever UKIP don't go up in a poll he says its all over!

    I mentioned earlier and he said he didn't do it.. he did it tonight so I pulled him

    Minutes later, 18% with ComRes

    Maybe you should say to him "You really need to stop etc etc" ?

    I am sure Sean knows more than me about polling and campaigning but I know about over reactions and complacency in betting and I see it daily on here
    Happens almost every time and is tiresome. Ditto those who dissect any poll in which the Tories are within range to within an inch of its life who then disappear the following day when the poll returns to trend.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    JackW said:

    YouGov polled 1,206 Scottish adults between June 25-29 for the Indyref polling

    Do you have a gender breakdown or at this stage are these just headline numbers ?

    Worryingly for the Yes campaign, it is failing to make any inroads with female voters, despite concerted efforts by the Scottish government to appeal to women, with policies such as universal free childcare and gender quotas on boards. The split among women is 62-38 for the Union, exactly the same as in March.
    Women are more risk-averse than men.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    YouGov polled 1,206 Scottish adults between June 25-29 for the Indyref polling

    Do you have a gender breakdown or at this stage are these just headline numbers ?

    Worryingly for the Yes campaign, it is failing to make any inroads with female voters, despite concerted efforts by the Scottish government to appeal to women, with policies such as universal free childcare and gender quotas on boards. The split among women is 62-38 for the Union, exactly the same as in March.
    Thank you.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ukip being squeezed. Hodges may remain covered yet.

    Predicting doom for UKIP again the minute a poll comes out?! haha don't let us bother you so!

    YouGov always understate

    Oh we can all play this game!

    "Euros are different to GE" etc etc


    I thought either you or Mike wrote a header showing YouGov overstated Lab and Con and understated UKIP?

    So we aren't to mention it? Its invalid because of the Euro polls?
    Understated UKIP by 0.2%
    Oh right haha fair enough

    Maybe it really is all over for UKIP

    Pnd I about polling and campaigning and is a Kipper expects UKIP to poll 8%-12%


    e
    The greatest over-reaction on here, was during the Cleggasm, which is what the Kipper surge reminds me of (the reactions of the supporters on here and elsewhere mostly, I mean in April 2010, some Lib Dems were talking about Witney being a LD gain)
    UKIP just won a national election.
    But not a FPTP election, I know the deluded Diane James thinks UKIP are on course to win 60 seats, but look at the Rallings and Thrasher predictions.

    Not one of UKIP's by election performances will get them a seat, and as myself and others have pointed out, it's all about seats not share of the vote.
    The thing that I believe you and Mike are missing when you say "Not one of UKIP's by election performances will get them a seat" is that none of the seats contested have been in favourable areas

    Actually I believe that if they replicated the performances in a favourable seat, ie increase their vote share 600% as per Newark, they will win 3-4 seats, and that your approach to judging their performances, assuming it's not light hearted trolling, is misjudged

    But it will play out before our eyes, should be interesting

    3/4 seats would be a fine result for UKIP.

    Yes

    I strongly fancy Farage and Tim Aker to win S Thanet and Thurrock respectively

    Any two from Great Grimsby, Great Yarmouth, S Bas and E Thurrock, Folkestone, Dover, Boston and. Skegness, Castle Point Dudley North or Cambourne and Redruth for the other two

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    The lack of real movement in the Indyref polls is striking. Shows how little difference a campaign makes.
    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    YouGov polled 1,206 Scottish adults between June 25-29 for the Indyref polling

    Do you have a gender breakdown or at this stage are these just headline numbers ?

    Worryingly for the Yes campaign, it is failing to make any inroads with female voters, despite concerted efforts by the Scottish government to appeal to women, with policies such as universal free childcare and gender quotas on boards. The split among women is 62-38 for the Union, exactly the same as in March.
    Thank you.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    None in favourable areas is all you need to remember
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    The Times also have done a piece on better together, about their wobble, and how they got things sorted, and how they see things panning out.

    Nor do they [Better Together] seem worried at the regular reports that there is a bigger ground war campaign by those who want independence. Rob Murray, deputy director of operations (grassroots), said that the Yes camp is happy to talk to itself — filling halls with supporters — rather than attempting to convert the undecided voters.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    @isam

    Maybe it really is all over for UKIP

    The fundamental things apply, as time goes by...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo2Lof_5dy4

    Play it once, Sam. For old times sake. Play it, Sam. Play "As time goes by". Sing it, Sam.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    isam said:

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    None in favourable areas is all you need to remember
    The NNESV trends tells you all you need to know.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ukip being squeezed. Hodges may remain covered yet.

    Predicting doom for UKIP again the minute a poll comes out?! haha don't let us bother you so!

    YouGov always understate

    Oh we can all play this game!

    "Euros are different to GE" etc etc


    I thought either you or Mike wrote a header showing YouGov overstated Lab and Con and understated UKIP?

    So we aren't to mention it? Its invalid because of the Euro polls?
    Understated UKIP by 0.2%
    Oh right haha fair enough

    Maybe it really is all over for UKIP

    Pnd I about polling and campaigning and is a Kipper expects UKIP to poll 8%-12%


    e
    The greatest over-reaction on here, was during the Cleggasm, which is what the Kipper surge reminds me of (the reactions of the supporters on here and elsewhere mostly, I mean in April 2010, some Lib Dems were talking about Witney being a LD gain)
    UKIP just won a national election.
    But not a FPTP election, I know the deluded Diane James thinks UKIP are on course to win 60 seats, but look at the Rallings and Thrasher predictions.

    Not one of UKIP's by election performances will get them a seat, and as myself and others have pointed out, it's all about seats not share of the vote.
    The thing that I believe you and Mike are missing when you say "Not one of UKIP's by election performances will get them a seat" is that none of the seats contested have been in favourable areas

    Actually I believe that if they replicated the performances in a favourable seat, ie increase their vote share 600% as per Newark, they will win 3-4 seats, and that your approach to judging their performances, assuming it's not light hearted trolling, is misjudged

    But it will play out before our eyes, should be interesting

    3/4 seats would be a fine result for UKIP.

    Yes

    I strongly fancy Farage and Tim Aker to win S Thanet and Thurrock respectively

    Any two from Great Grimsby, Great Yarmouth, S Bas and E Thurrock, Folkestone, Dover, Boston and. Skegness, Castle Point Dudley North or Cambourne and Redruth for the other two

    I have Thurrock as a LAB gain
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    Give them a byelection in Boston and we will see.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited June 2014
    Ozil 2-0.

    Algeria have been very good, though their final passes in the German penalty area have been poor.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    The lack of real movement in the Indyref polls is striking. Shows how little difference a campaign makes.

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    YouGov polled 1,206 Scottish adults between June 25-29 for the Indyref polling

    Do you have a gender breakdown or at this stage are these just headline numbers ?

    Worryingly for the Yes campaign, it is failing to make any inroads with female voters, despite concerted efforts by the Scottish government to appeal to women, with policies such as universal free childcare and gender quotas on boards. The split among women is 62-38 for the Union, exactly the same as in March.
    Thank you.

    Not necessarily. You might have a significant amount of churn that net equates to little movement.

    That said I think we've been in this 60/40 range for some time and barring a hugely significant game changing event it's likely to edge further away from YES as differential turnout seeps into the final numbers.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    2-1. Great goal for Algeria.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Sam count the number of time Ukip were sub 13% with yougov in May then count for June..

    Then keep swimming down that Egyptian river.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    None in favourable areas is all you need to remember
    The NNESV trends tells you all you need to know.
    You have your methods and I have mine

    I contend it's all changed with 4 party politics and the old methods are past their sell by

    I could be wrong, but so far all my betting positions are way, way ahead of the game

    So I don't want to argue with you, the truth will out and one of us will be wrong
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Reading the Times reports, it is clear that Better Together have won the economic arguments in this debate.

    That's what explains the large No lead.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    isam said:

    isam said:

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    None in favourable areas is all you need to remember
    The NNESV trends tells you all you need to know.
    You have your methods and I have mine

    I contend it's all changed with 4 party politics and the old methods are past their sell by

    I could be wrong, but so far all my betting positions are way, way ahead of the game

    So I don't want to argue with you, the truth will out and one of us will be wrong
    The other thing, UKIP's ground game isn't the best.

    Look at Newark, we all know a by-election was in the offing for over a year, the Tories selected their candidate in 2013, UKIP selected Roger Helmer in May 2014.

    You had Farage spouting off at the count the Tories had won by only 2,000, anyone who has ever been at a count, can usually guesstimate very well, Farage really did believe the UKIP hype.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:


    isam said:

    isam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Ukip being squeezed. Hodges may remain covered yet.

    Predicting doom for UKIP again the minute a poll comes out?! haha don't let us bother you so!

    YouGov always understate

    Oh we can all play this game!

    "Euros are different to GE" etc etc


    I thought either you or Mike wrote a header showing YouGov overstated Lab and Con and understated UKIP?

    So we aren't to mention it? Its invalid because of the Euro polls?
    Understated UKIP by 0.2%
    Oh right haha fair enough

    Maybe it really is all over for UKIP

    Pnd I about polling and campaigning and is a Kipper expects UKIP to poll 8%-12%


    e
    The greatest over-reaction on here, was during the Cleggasm, which is what the Kipper surge reminds me of (the reactions of the supporters on here and elsewhere mostly, I mean in April 2010, some Lib Dems were talking about Witney being a LD gain)
    UKIP just won a national election.
    .
    as

    Actually I believe that if they replicated the performances in a favourable seat, ie increase their vote share 600% as per Newark, they will win 3-4 seats, and that your approach to judging their performances, assuming it's not light hearted trolling, is misjudged

    But it will play out before our eyes, should be interesting

    3/4 seats would be a fine result for UKIP.

    Yes

    I strongly fancy Farage and Tim Aker to win S Thanet and Thurrock respectively

    Any two from Great Grimsby, Great Yarmouth, S Bas and E Thurrock, Folkestone, Dover, Boston and. Skegness, Castle Point Dudley North or Cambourne and Redruth for the other two

    I have Thurrock as a LAB gain
    The Bookies have them odds on but I can't see the value in that

    I live in the next door constituency, Thurrock is very much like the ward in Havering that ukip won, and they gave a ground game there, and past results are good ( 2x national polling)

    I'm on at 16/1 and think its a6/4 shot
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I agree about Thurrock being a Labour gain. There's been a big increase in the African population recently which should assist them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Re Scottish independence:

    Would anyone like to give me odds on SeanT actually delivering the wagered bottle of champagne at the Groucho in the (certain) event of a 'no' vote?
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    It is possible, but I would have thought less churn for the indyref compared with most elections.

    Germans demonstrate their mastery once more. Perhaps when we enter a USE team in the World cup we might get a share of the glory too.
    JackW said:

    The lack of real movement in the Indyref polls is striking. Shows how little difference a campaign makes.

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    YouGov polled 1,206 Scottish adults between June 25-29 for the Indyref polling

    Do you have a gender breakdown or at this stage are these just headline numbers ?

    Worryingly for the Yes campaign, it is failing to make any inroads with female voters, despite concerted efforts by the Scottish government to appeal to women, with policies such as universal free childcare and gender quotas on boards. The split among women is 62-38 for the Union, exactly the same as in March.
    Thank you.

    Not necessarily. You might have a significant amount of churn that net equates to little movement.

    That said I think we've been in this 60/40 range for some time and barring a hugely significant game changing event it's likely to edge further away from YES as differential turnout seeps into the final numbers.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TGOHF said:

    Sam count the number of time Ukip were sub 13% with yougov in May then count for June..

    Then keep swimming down that Egyptian river.

    I really can't be bothered to do that!

    We will see, I want ukip to do well and I am very happy with their progress. If you think they're on the slide your entitled to your opinion
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    News from the eastern front:
    The EU-Russian ceasefire agreement is dead, Poroshenko has declared total war on the russian rebels, Putin might respond in a major speech to diplomats tommorow.
    Merkel and Hollande will not be amused by Poroshenko.

    News from the southern front:
    Obama to send another 200 troops to Iraq.
    He seems to follow the Putin strategy of slow war (so people wont notice).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited June 2014
    In other news, John Rentoul says (I paraphrase slightly) 'Ed is crap'.

    I draw this to your attention only because it's the other Ed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-ballss-jedi-speech-reality-strikes-back-9573673.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Hmm I think Thurrock is UKIP's best chance tbh - even better than Thanet South, a 15% swing is alot easier to effect than a 23% one and crucially the anti-UKIP tactical vote in Thurrock is not at all obvious, could be a Labour gain - I wouldn't rule that out but it is a great chance for UKIP.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    So if Cameron can confect a fight with Europe every week between now and the election he might hang on to power.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    isam said:

    isam said:

    @isam

    Opposition parties generally do better in by-elections than they do at the general election.

    So far, UKIP's best performance in a by-election was sub 30%

    Not good enough to win a seat under FPTP, add in the Ashcroft polling which now shows the UKIP a distant third in Eastleigh.

    None in favourable areas is all you need to remember
    The NNESV trends tells you all you need to know.
    You have your methods and I have mine

    I contend it's all changed with 4 party politics and the old methods are past their sell by

    I could be wrong, but so far all my betting positions are way, way ahead of the game

    So I don't want to argue with you, the truth will out and one of us will be wrong
    The other thing, UKIP's ground game isn't the best.

    Look at Newark, we all know a by-election was in the offing for over a year, the Tories selected their candidate in 2013, UKIP selected Roger Helmer in May 2014.

    You had Farage spouting off at the count the Tories had won by only 2,000, anyone who has ever been at a count, can usually guesstimate very well, Farage really did believe the UKIP hype.
    Eastleigh seemed pretty good, it seems like there's no competent national organization but if they've got good people on the ground they know how to let them run with it.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    I think he has chosen a seat but wont tell his enemies so that they wont pour all available resources against him until its too late.
    As for tactical voting, that needs a good campaign to minimize it so we wont know until the last week.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AndyJS said:

    I agree about Thurrock being a Labour gain. There's been a big increase in the African population recently which should assist them.

    That would make a lot of old labour voters vote ukip
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    Farage in Thurrock would have been a shoo in, but Thanet South is trickier I think...
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    edited June 2014
    Easy World Cup question:

    What have all six quarter finalists got in common?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    In other news, John Rentoul says (I paraphrase slightly) 'Ed is crap'.

    I draw this to your attention only because it's the other Ed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-ballss-jedi-speech-reality-strikes-back-9573673.html

    The difference between the two Eds is that EdB will understand and almost certainly agree with John Rentoul's criticism.

    It is difficult to sound convincing when asked to advocate claims you don't believe in.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    For Thurrock as well as S.Thanet the barrier is 40%, if UKIP get close to that they win.
    But its more likely that the Tories will drop bellow 40% in S.Thanet than Labout remaining bellow 40% in Thurrock.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    In other news, John Rentoul says (I paraphrase slightly) 'Ed is crap'.

    I draw this to your attention only because it's the other Ed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-ballss-jedi-speech-reality-strikes-back-9573673.html

    Like all Blairites, Rentoul is clueless on economics. He's essentially nit-picking.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    Robert

    There have been many indicators that College will choose to stand in one of the two Thanets. I have therefore been doing a little bit of research.

    My conclusion is that punters should not assume it will be South rather than North.

    Thanet South Conservative Association is due to select its PPC to replace Laura Sandys on July 4th. I suspect College and his local supporters (Alan Bown) are waiting to know who it will be before committing to one of the two constituencies. One thing is certain: Thanet South will not choose a Europhile candidate like Sandys.

    The argument for College challenging Sir Roger Gale in TN (or his successor if Gale decides to stand down) is part emotional part rational.

    The emotional reasons are that TN is College's constituency of birth and more firmly in Alan Bown's territory.

    The rational reasons are there are less 2010 Lab-Lib Dem voters in TN (17,698) than in TS (21,361). TS was also enjoying a Labour revival in the locals before the Faragasm; Labour has chosen the youthful council leader behind that revival as its PPC; and the constituency had a Labour MP (Ladyman) from 1997-2010.

    The risk to UKIP in TS is that Labour could come through the middle to win back the constituency, or, that, if the Con PPC is strong and establishes a lead, a significant proportion of the Lab-Lib Dem voters will vote Tory to keep out UKIP.

    This thinking no doubt lay behind Alan Bown's decision to sponsor Survation polling in Thanet South (et alia) earlier this year. The figures they will be poring over are the proportions of Tory to Labour/LD converts in the area.

    I still think Thanet South is favourite but not by a large amount. Thanet North remains a real option. Ladbrokes have UKIP 6/4 favourite in Thanet South and 4/1 in Thanet North. On 25th May there was also a market on where Farage will stand with TS fav at evens and TN 2nd fav at 5/1 (see Shadsy's blog). The latter market looks as if it has been pulled, but the value in both bets may well lie (or have lain) North.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Ninoinoz said:

    Easy World Cup question:

    What have all six quarter finalists got in common?

    Germany, France, Brazil, Columbia, Costa Rica, Netherlands...

    Hmm....

    Predominant European male ancestry amongst the gene pools ^^; ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Ninoinoz said:

    Easy World Cup question:

    What have all six quarter finalists got in common?

    All won their group?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    AveryLP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    Robert

    There have been many indicators that College will choose to stand in one of the two Thanets. I have therefore been doing a little bit of research.

    My conclusion is that punters should not assume it will be South rather than North.

    Thanet South Conservative Association is due to select its PPC to replace Laura Sandys on July 4th. I suspect College and his local supporters (Alan Bown) are waiting to know who it will be before committing to one of the two constituencies. One thing is certain: Thanet South will not choose a Europhile candidate like Sandys.

    The argument for College challenging Sir Roger Gale in TN (or his successor if Gale decides to stand down) is part emotional part rational.

    The emotional reasons are that TN is College's constituency of birth and more firmly in Alan Bown's territory.

    The rational reasons are there are less 2010 Lab-Lib Dem voters in TN (17,698) than in TS (21,361). TS was also enjoying a Labour revival in the locals before the Faragasm; Labour has chosen the youthful council leader behind that revival as its PPC; and the constituency had a Labour MP (Ladyman) from 1997-2010.

    The risk to UKIP in TS is that Labour could come through the middle to win back the constituency, or, that, if the Con PPC is strong and establishes a lead, a significant proportion of the Lab-Lib Dem voters will vote Tory to keep out UKIP.

    This thinking no doubt lay behind Alan Bown's decision to sponsor Survation polling in Thanet South (et alia) earlier this year. The figures they will be poring over are the proportions of Tory to Labour/LD converts in the area.

    I still think Thanet South is favourite but not by a large amount. Thanet North remains a real option. Ladbrokes have UKIP 6/4 favourite in Thanet South and 4/1 in Thanet North. On 25th May there was also a market on where Farage will stand with TS fav at evens and TN 2nd fav at 5/1 (see Shadsy's blog). The latter market looks as if it has been pulled, but the value in both bets may well lie (or have lain) North.
    I've backed both

    This college thing hasn't really caught on has it?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    In other news, John Rentoul says (I paraphrase slightly) 'Ed is crap'.

    I draw this to your attention only because it's the other Ed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ed-ballss-jedi-speech-reality-strikes-back-9573673.html

    Like all Blairites, Rentoul is clueless on economics. He's essentially nit-picking.
    Rentoul is not nit-picking. He is referring to a real debate going on between academic economists.

    It may be worth putting Rentoul's comments in the context of George Osborne's April speech to the American Enterprise Institute:

    I bring this same optimism to the second of today’s pessimistic predictions – that even if growth is sustained the benefits will accrue to the few not the many.

    This prediction – that the link between living standards and economic growth has broken – also leads its proponents to the same prescription: more government spending on welfare and the costs of economic dependency.

    But it too can be proved wrong if we follow a different approach.

    To begin with it is not well supported by the facts.

    As Greg Mankiw has pointed out for the US, on a superficial reading the data appears to show that real median incomes grew by only 3% over the entire period from 1979 to 2007. That sounds like there is a big problem.

    But in fact once you take account of changes in household composition, lower taxes, healthcare benefits and other forms of remuneration then that number turns into a 37% real terms increase.

    Of course that’s not to say that inequality doesn’t matter – it does.

    The Great Recession made our countries poorer and times have been difficult for British and American families.

    But in the UK the evidence shows that growth supports rising living standards.

    Recent work by academics at the London School of Economics and our own analysis at the Treasury has found no evidence that employee compensation has become detached from GDP growth in recent decades.

    Previous results that appear to show a break disappear once you take account of rising pension contributions and payroll taxes.

    That is one reason why the labour share of national income in the UK has stayed constant over the last decade.


    [to be continued ...]
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    @Frank_Booth

    Osborne Speech continued

    Nor does the evidence support the so-called “hollowing out” hypothesis in the UK – the idea that middle-skill and middle-income jobs are disappearing with most of the growth in employment either at the top or the bottom of the distribution.

    While some traditional mid-level occupations have shrunk or moved down the income scale, new ones have been created to take their place.

    So we have fewer middle-paid production line and secretarial jobs, but a lot more middle-paid jobs in IT and professional services.

    Overall there has been little change in the proportion of people in middle-income jobs in recent years.

    And after rising during the industrial restructuring of the 1980s, as it did in many countries, the level of inequality in the UK has been fairly constant for two decades, and according to the latest data is at its lowest level since 1986.

    So the long term link between economic growth and living standards has not been broken.

    When the economy shrinks people get poorer, and the only way to ensure people are better off is for the economy to grow.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    isam said:

    Ninoinoz said:

    Easy World Cup question:

    What have all six quarter finalists got in common?

    All won their group?
    Correct!
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    isam said:

    AveryLP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    Robert

    There have been many indicators that College will choose to stand in one of the two Thanets. I have therefore been doing a little bit of research.

    My conclusion is that punters should not assume it will be South rather than North.

    Thanet South Conservative Association is due to select its PPC to replace Laura Sandys on July 4th. I suspect College and his local supporters (Alan Bown) are waiting to know who it will be before committing to one of the two constituencies. One thing is certain: Thanet South will not choose a Europhile candidate like Sandys.

    The argument for College challenging Sir Roger Gale in TN (or his successor if Gale decides to stand down) is part emotional part rational.

    The emotional reasons are that TN is College's constituency of birth and more firmly in Alan Bown's territory.

    The rational reasons are there are less 2010 Lab-Lib Dem voters in TN (17,698) than in TS (21,361). TS was also enjoying a Labour revival in the locals before the Faragasm; Labour has chosen the youthful council leader behind that revival as its PPC; and the constituency had a Labour MP (Ladyman) from 1997-2010.

    The risk to UKIP in TS is that Labour could come through the middle to win back the constituency, or, that, if the Con PPC is strong and establishes a lead, a significant proportion of the Lab-Lib Dem voters will vote Tory to keep out UKIP.

    This thinking no doubt lay behind Alan Bown's decision to sponsor Survation polling in Thanet South (et alia) earlier this year. The figures they will be poring over are the proportions of Tory to Labour/LD converts in the area.

    I still think Thanet South is favourite but not by a large amount. Thanet North remains a real option. Ladbrokes have UKIP 6/4 favourite in Thanet South and 4/1 in Thanet North. On 25th May there was also a market on where Farage will stand with TS fav at evens and TN 2nd fav at 5/1 (see Shadsy's blog). The latter market looks as if it has been pulled, but the value in both bets may well lie (or have lain) North.
    I've backed both

    This college thing hasn't really caught on has it?
    Not yet, Sam.

    But these things take time.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2014
    AveryLP said:

    isam said:

    AveryLP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re UKIP:

    Castle Point
    Boston
    Thurrock
    Thanet South

    are all excellent shots.

    I would not be surprised if they got 2-3 of these, plus maybe one or two surprise others (not Eastleigh!).

    However, I suspect Nigel Farage will not be an MP in 2015, as he (a) has been slow to choose a seat, and may look like a little bit of an import, and (b) is likely to suffer from tactical voting in a way Diane James (for example) would not.

    Robert

    There have been many indicators that College will choose to stand in one of the two Thanets. I have therefore been doing a little bit of research.

    My conclusion is that punters should not assume it will be South rather than North.

    Thanet South Conservative Association is due to select its PPC to replace Laura Sandys on July 4th. I suspect College and his local supporters (Alan Bown) are waiting to know who it will be before committing to one of the two constituencies. One thing is certain: Thanet South will not choose a Europhile candidate like Sandys.

    The argument for College challenging Sir Roger Gale in TN (or his successor if Gale decides to stand down) is part emotional part rational.

    The emotional reasons are that TN is College's constituency of birth and more firmly in Alan Bown's territory.

    The rational reasons are there are less 2010 Lab-Lib Dem voters in TN (17,698) than in TS (21,361). TS was also enjoying a Labour revival in the locals before the Faragasm; Labour has chosen the youthful council leader behind that revival as its PPC; and the constituency had a Labour MP (Ladyman) from 1997-2010.

    The risk to UKIP in TS is that Labour could come through the middle to win back the constituency, or, that, if the Con PPC is strong and establishes a lead, a significant proportion of the Lab-Lib Dem voters will vote Tory to keep out UKIP.

    This thinking no doubt lay behind Alan Bown's decision to sponsor Survation polling in Thanet South (et alia) earlier this year. The figures they will be poring over are the proportions of Tory to Labour/LD converts in the area.

    I still think Thanet South is favourite but not by a large amount. Thanet North remains a real option. Ladbrokes have UKIP 6/4 favourite in Thanet South and 4/1 in Thanet North. On 25th May there was also a market on where Farage will stand with TS fav at evens and TN 2nd fav at 5/1 (see Shadsy's blog). The latter market looks as if it has been pulled, but the value in both bets may well lie (or have lain) North.
    I've backed both

    This college thing hasn't really caught on has it?
    Not yet, Sam.

    But these things take time.

    I know that I'm the most inept that ever stepped
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Introducing Caliph Ibrahim, head of state of the Islamic State:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AveryLP

    ".... and professional services."

    Could he have been alluding to the prostitution earnings now added to the GDP? :-)

    Interesting statistics. Care to show the world how he arrives at those figures?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Avery - I hadn't realised Osborne had chosen to give a speech to the loons at the AEI. No surprise though really.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Speedy said:

    News from the eastern front:
    The EU-Russian ceasefire agreement is dead, Poroshenko has declared total war on the russian rebels, Putin might respond in a major speech to diplomats tommorow.
    Merkel and Hollande will not be amused by Poroshenko.

    News from the southern front:
    Obama to send another 200 troops to Iraq.
    He seems to follow the Putin strategy of slow war (so people wont notice).

    WWIII steaming into view a few years after a banking collapse - same old same old.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @MrJones

    Might be the war to end all wars? no one will survive? :-)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited June 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @AveryLP

    ".... and professional services."

    Could he have been alluding to the prostitution earnings now added to the GDP? :-)

    Interesting statistics. Care to show the world how he arrives at those figures?

    In the long forgotten days of tim's obsessions, discussing Osborne's interest in professional services was unkindly treated by the moderators.

    As to how he arrived at those figures, the internal Treasury work is probably unpublished, but Greg Mankiw has published (on the US economy) and maintains a blog. See: gregmankiw.blogspot.com/

    Unsure of the LSE research. Possibly an old Ralph Miliband document?

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Avery - I hadn't realised Osborne had chosen to give a speech to the loons at the AEI. No surprise though really.

    Co-incided with the IMF annual meeting.

    Take your pick.

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Smarmeron said:

    @MrJones

    Might be the war to end all wars? no one will survive? :-)

    I don't think it will be nukes - not much anyway - just lots of little wars happening at the same time.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @AveryLP

    I like hearing fiction at bedtime, reminds me of my childhood.
    Goodnight.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Russell Brand discusses the Rolf Harris verdict:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-0Rb0zweS8
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    FPT. Robert, why were you surprised at the large number of hits from multinationals like Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and Barclays? Thanks to the invaluable contributions of a small group of very informed posters, this site became an absolute must read when it came to the Banking crisis as it unfolded.

    rcs1000 said: » "As technical administrator, I once did a quick and lazy dump of all the IP addresses of the people accessing PB.

    The most common IP addresses were: the Houses of Parliament, the Conservative Party, News Corporation, and DMGT. Plus there were a surprisingly large number of hits from multinationals like Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and Barclays,

    I kept meaning to match up usernames and IPs, particularly to work out who was posting from CCO, but never got around to it."
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Ukraine: At least in words, it looks like the Ukrainian president has gone for all out assault on the separatists.

    Hasn't much choice really.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Y0kel said:

    Ukraine: At least in words, it looks like the Ukrainian president has gone for all out assault on the separatists.

    Hasn't much choice really.

    Wonder what Putin will do/
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    A 'humanitarian mission'
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Considering the still largish UKIP vote waiting to be lanced, that is a very good position for the Conservatives with just 10 months to go. I caught the BBC 6pm News tonight, and Cameron couldn't have asked for better coverage of his appearance in the HoC's following the Juncker vote. Not only did the report highlight a united Tory party, but it showed some of the BOO crew lining up to praise him as well. And then we saw Ed Miliband criticising Cameron for standing up for the UK and losing, rather than agreeing and building bridges with our opponents in the EU.

    Yeah but the YouGov and ComRes have the Tories only 2 points behind with around 10 months to go.

    I'll take that.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    And doesn't that just hit the nail on the head? As long as the NHS delivers on its Government promises, and remains free from the cradle to the grave, it matters little to the consumer who delivers it.
    TGOHF said:



    Two in three people (67 per cent) say that they do not mind if health services are provided by a private company or the NHS as long as they remain free of charge, while 30 per cent disagree.

    This will not compute on planet left.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    If only Better Together had their very own Daniel Craig with a Glasga accent......And the buckfast was shaken not stirred.
    Twitter
    Michael McMahon @M_McMahon_MSP · Jun 28
    @mik61scot @Bobbybungalow see if you can spot any of the Secret Service plants. They will be the ones in the tuxedos

    Poor Peter Brookes, just think of the abuse he's going to get from MI5 agents posing as cybernats

    Peter Brookes ‏@BrookesTimes 12m

    My cartoon Tuesday @TheTimes: Mickey Moose Salmond declares a McCaliphate #ScottishIndependence #ISIS

    pic.twitter.com/VevgJRYz92

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    Two in three people (67 per cent) say that they do not mind if health services are provided by a private company or the NHS as long as they remain free of charge, while 30 per cent disagree.

    That's a very interesting result.

    As a heartless Tory bastard it has always seemed to me that there is a difference between (a) who pays for the service (which is a political question) and (b) who provides the service (which should primarily be about value for money for a given level of quality).

    Is there any more detail / trend data, etc?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ToryJim said:

    @Plattinio: @ayestotheright Apparently from The Times? http://t.co/eygrdX1Wyz

    This is quite fun.

    That's the same one my English master taught me when I was 11:

    "Sailing slowly by, Vesuvius was a magnificent sight"
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Re Scottish independence:

    Would anyone like to give me odds on SeanT actually delivering the wagered bottle of champagne at the Groucho in the (certain) event of a 'no' vote?

    He's gone up market now.

    I read a thoughtful piece in the Spectator this week and then, to my shock, realised it was penned by PB's finest.
This discussion has been closed.