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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Well over 100 CON MPs rebel on the Queen’s Speech vote – a

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Well over 100 CON MPs rebel on the Queen’s Speech vote – a step towards an EU exit or EdM becoming PM?

Will this help the Tories win GE2015 or help them lose it? twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/st…

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Comments

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Both, I suspect.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 55,591
    Or neither.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Labour is collapsing in the opinion polls during this Tory euro madness. So the Tories should get Euro madder.
  • MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    I really don't get the importance of this vote. Lots of Tories saying they don't like the coalition. Hold the front page! Media behind the curve and still can't get their heads round the whole idea of coalitions, which will now be a permanent fixture.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass
    Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
    Got to keep the loonies on the path
    The lunatic is in the hall
    The lunatics are in my hall
    The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
    And every day the paper boy brings more
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
    The lunatic is in my head
    The lunatic is in my head
    You raise the blade, you make the change
    You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
    You lock the door
    And throw away the key
    There's someone in my head but it's not me.
    And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
    You shout and no one seems to hear
    And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

    "I can't think of anything to say except...
    I think it's marvellous! HaHaHa!"

    sums up tim
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass

    Too true, tim! The lunatic on the grass has posted 3194 times since the Vanilla change-over!

    :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    It will help them win it!
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass


    Too true, tim! The lunatic on the grass has posted 3194 times since the Vanilla change-over!

    :)
    "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad."
    Aldous Huxley
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,895

    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass

    Too true, tim! The lunatic on the grass has posted 3194 times since the Vanilla change-over!

    :)<

    /blockquote>

    By my count, there have been 7,812 posts about Tim in that time. Some folk are obsessed, I guess.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'William Hague, foreign secretary, promised full Conservative Party support if private members bill on in-out referendum can get underway.' wintour
  • samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013
    FPT


    sam • Posts: 551

    8:16PM


    SouthamObserver said:

    » show previous quotes

    But that is not complete segregaiton, is it? There are more white people living in the places that Tim firts linked to than Bangladeshis.

    I actually agree with your central point: it is a disgrace that council debates were/are conducted in Bangladeshi. English should be the one and only language.




    @SouthamObserver

    Jesus

    It was about white British and Bangladeshi

    There are 79231 White British and 81377 Bangladeshis in the ward Tim linked to

    I know we have different ways of looking at things but Im quite certain 81377 is more than 79231

    In the ward I linked to there are 103848 White British and less than 2500 Asians of any type

    So it would seem there is an imbalance in the make up of the Borough from one side to the other

    Feel free to think differently, we obviously do


    I didnt actually say it was a disgrace that the councils speak Bengali, I said why expect any different in a place where the street signs are in Bengali and is very lopsided in terms of ethnicity
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass
    Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
    Got to keep the loonies on the path
    The lunatic is in the hall
    The lunatics are in my hall
    The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
    And every day the paper boy brings more
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
    The lunatic is in my head
    The lunatic is in my head
    You raise the blade, you make the change
    You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
    You lock the door
    And throw away the key
    There's someone in my head but it's not me.
    And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
    You shout and no one seems to hear
    And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

    "I can't think of anything to say except...
    I think it's marvellous! HaHaHa!"

    sums up tim
    Tim's " lunatic " slur is nothing new for the dogmatic left ;
    " In the twentieth century, systematic political abuse of psychiatry took place in the Soviet Union. Psychiatry was used as a tool during the reign of Leonid Brezhnev to eliminate political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed views that contradicted official dogma."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    edited May 2013
    Somehow, I just can't see Dave saying, "We will then crush the Rebellion with one swift stroke!"
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 36,895
    sam said:

    FPT


    sam • Posts: 551

    8:16PM


    SouthamObserver said:

    » show previous quotes

    But that is not complete segregaiton, is it? There are more white people living in the places that Tim firts linked to than Bangladeshis.

    I actually agree with your central point: it is a disgrace that council debates were/are conducted in Bangladeshi. English should be the one and only language.




    @SouthamObserver

    Jesus

    It was about white British and Bangladeshi

    There are 79231 White British and 81377 Bangladeshis in the ward Tim linked to

    I know we have different ways of looking at things but Im quite certain 81377 is more than 79231

    In the ward I linked to there are 103848 White British and less than 2500 Asians of any type

    So it would seem there is an imbalance in the make up of the Borough from one side to the other

    Feel free to think differently, we obviously do


    I didnt actually say it was a disgrace that the councils speak Bengali, I said why expect any different in a place where the street signs are in Bengali and is very lopsided in terms of ethnicity

    Well, I'll go further than you then. I do think it is a disgrace.

  • InMyHumOpInMyHumOp Posts: 16

    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass
    Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
    Got to keep the loonies on the path
    The lunatic is in the hall
    The lunatics are in my hall
    The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
    And every day the paper boy brings more
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
    The lunatic is in my head
    The lunatic is in my head
    You raise the blade, you make the change
    You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
    You lock the door
    And throw away the key
    There's someone in my head but it's not me.
    And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
    You shout and no one seems to hear
    And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

    "I can't think of anything to say except...
    I think it's marvellous! HaHaHa!"

    sums up tim
    Tim's " lunatic " slur is nothing new for the dogmatic left ;
    " In the twentieth century, systematic political abuse of psychiatry took place in the Soviet Union. Psychiatry was used as a tool during the reign of Leonid Brezhnev to eliminate political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed views that contradicted official dogma."
    I think Timbo uses PB as a sort of confessional therapy. The lunatic thing just being the latest. For example he obsesses about Grumpy old men and who is grumpier than him, the very definition of grumpy, I mean he makes stuff up AND then endlessly complains about it.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,384
    Tactically it's not that bad in that it's giving the impression that the political debate in Britain is largely between the Bolshevik (majority) Tories under Dave and the Menshevik (minority) Tories plus UKIP. Labour and the LibDems aren't getting much air time, and I suspect the decline in Labour certainty to vote reflects that.

    Strategically, though, it's a hostage to fortune - whenever anything goes wrong (and in government something is always going wrong), the charge will be that the Tories were too busy arguing with themselves about Europe to notice disaster X.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    InMyHumOp said:

    tim said:

    The lunatic is on the grass
    The lunatic is on the grass
    Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
    Got to keep the loonies on the path
    The lunatic is in the hall
    The lunatics are in my hall
    The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
    And every day the paper boy brings more
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forbodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
    The lunatic is in my head
    The lunatic is in my head
    You raise the blade, you make the change
    You re-arrange me 'till I'm sane
    You lock the door
    And throw away the key
    There's someone in my head but it's not me.
    And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
    You shout and no one seems to hear
    And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

    "I can't think of anything to say except...
    I think it's marvellous! HaHaHa!"

    sums up tim
    Tim's " lunatic " slur is nothing new for the dogmatic left ;
    " In the twentieth century, systematic political abuse of psychiatry took place in the Soviet Union. Psychiatry was used as a tool during the reign of Leonid Brezhnev to eliminate political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed views that contradicted official dogma."
    I think Timbo uses PB as a sort of confessional therapy. The lunatic thing just being the latest. For example he obsesses about Grumpy old men and who is grumpier than him, the very definition of grumpy, I mean he makes stuff up AND then endlessly complains about it.

    Psychological projection was first conceptualized by Sigmund Freud as a defence mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or her own unacceptable attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead. Thus, projection involves projecting negative qualities onto others, and is a common psychological process.

    If the cap fits......
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Oh Dave. You really thought you'd be "quite good" at this PM stuff too, didn't you? Idiot.

    We're closer to Ed M becoming PM.

    We're no closer nor further from an EU exit (i.e. gone from Not Happening to Not Happening).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    Tactically it's not that bad in that it's giving the impression that the political debate in Britain is largely between the Bolshevik (majority) Tories under Dave and the Menshevik (minority) Tories plus UKIP. Labour and the LibDems aren't getting much air time, and I suspect the decline in Labour certainty to vote reflects that.

    Strategically, though, it's a hostage to fortune - whenever anything goes wrong (and in government something is always going wrong), the charge will be that the Tories were too busy arguing with themselves about Europe to notice disaster X.

    And of course the great thing for Labour about that charge is that it will actually be true, so all the better for them. It's always easier when one's attacks are virtually uncontestable even from your opponents.
  • InMyHumOpInMyHumOp Posts: 16

    Tactically it's not that bad in that it's giving the impression that the political debate in Britain is largely between the Bolshevik (majority) Tories under Dave and the Menshevik (minority) Tories plus UKIP. Labour and the LibDems aren't getting much air time, and I suspect the decline in Labour certainty to vote reflects that.

    Strategically, though, it's a hostage to fortune - whenever anything goes wrong (and in government something is always going wrong), the charge will be that the Tories were too busy arguing with themselves about Europe to notice disaster X.

    I am sure that will be the line, Nick but the thing is lots of things are going wrong in Europe for example the lack of growth. Now Labour and the Lib Dems don't want to talk about Europe because they are wedded to staying in however the large the scale of disasters in Europe and their effects on the UK

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Oh Dave. You really thought you'd be "quite good" at this PM stuff too, didn't you? Idiot.

    Poor guy - he probably does alright with plans and simulations of what he'd do, but he just cannot actually manage the unruly gits he works with to achieve any of those lofty ambitions, forgetting that you cannot do the latter without the former.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,413
    A pilgrim's lament:

    Oh to be in the EU (or Britain) (or England & Wales) (or England) now that Spring is(n't) here.

    Confused of Bedaford
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,644
    edited May 2013
    carl said:

    Oh Dave. You really thought you'd be "quite good" at this PM stuff too, didn't you? Idiot.

    We're closer to Ed M becoming PM.

    We're no closer nor further from an EU exit (i.e. gone from Not Happening to Not Happening).


    Not sure you are right.

    The 'anti politic' view is stronger now than in 2010, in my view.
    It is now against Lab, Con and Lib, and the EU as a part of the body politic of the last 40 years.

    In 2015 it is a real possibility that 3 parties will poll in the 20s in percentage terms, with a fourth in the teens. That, I suspect is unprecedented in UK, and would cause all sorts of angst.
  • MBoyMBoy Posts: 104
    Closer to rEd becoming PM. Just like the Maastrict rebels helped propel Blair to a majority of 170. Dont tell the Tories this though! LOL :D
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Tactically it's not that bad in that it's giving the impression that the political debate in Britain is largely between the Bolshevik (majority) Tories under Dave and the Menshevik (minority) Tories plus UKIP. Labour and the LibDems aren't getting much air time, and I suspect the decline in Labour certainty to vote reflects that.

    Strategically, though, it's a hostage to fortune - whenever anything goes wrong (and in government something is always going wrong), the charge will be that the Tories were too busy arguing with themselves about Europe to notice disaster X.

    Tovarich Palmer, you will arguing there is no plug to pull on Europe next.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I can't see it helping the Conservatives. Nor does it make a referendum more likely. You'd have to be some kind of maniac to think that the biggest problem facing Britain right now is the EU. It appears that the Conservative backbenches are stuffed full of maniacs.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    kle4 said:

    Oh Dave. You really thought you'd be "quite good" at this PM stuff too, didn't you? Idiot.

    Poor guy - he probably does alright with plans and simulations of what he'd do, but he just cannot actually manage the unruly gits he works with to achieve any of those lofty ambitions, forgetting that you cannot do the latter without the former.

    Cameron's talents are those of a mid-ranking PR guy / salesman in an unremarkable company somewhere.

    But he believed he was destined for greatness, possibly because that's the way he was raised.

    Unfortunately for David Cameron, the office of PM tends to expose the weaknesses of charlatans and chancers.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Brick Lane is yuppifying quite rapidly. The area is very popular with young City professionals who want to live close to work.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Off topic (or maybe on-topic!) I see that Gove thing, whatever it is, is in a pickle over his "much needed reforms" again.

    Bringing back O levels, not bringing back O levels, kind of bringing something back and getting rid of something..... look! There! A Hitler Mr Man!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,019
    Just seen the Ipsos-Mori poll - absolutely disastrous for Ed Miliband. Remember, at this stage Labour were supposed to be getting double the coalition parties combined. How long before we get a poll showing a Tory lead? If the Comeback Clegg's political rehabilitation continues I can envisage Labour getting less than they did in 2010.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    carl said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh Dave. You really thought you'd be "quite good" at this PM stuff too, didn't you? Idiot.

    Poor guy - he probably does alright with plans and simulations of what he'd do, but he just cannot actually manage the unruly gits he works with to achieve any of those lofty ambitions, forgetting that you cannot do the latter without the former.

    Cameron's talents are those of a mid-ranking PR guy / salesman in an unremarkable company somewhere.

    But he believed he was destined for greatness, possibly because that's the way he was raised.

    Unfortunately for David Cameron, the office of PM tends to expose the weaknesses of charlatans and chancers.
    I will defend Cameron, disappointed though I have come to be in him, in one regard - the charge he has done terribly because he simply believed he was destined for greatness is horseshit, because I see no evidence it does not apply to every other high ranking politician out there, who believe that they and they alone would be best for Prime Minister because clearly they are better.

    People from all walks of life can rise to a high profile and have huge, perhaps in error, self belief in their abilities, and while coming from privilege really helps one develop that by making the path to testing that easier, I do not see how Cameron's upbringing has made him believe himself more than he should more than many other past PMs.
  • O/T

    Potentially brain-numbing numbers were the three oil companies concerned be found guilty of having overcharged for a period of up to 10 years.

    By way of illustration - say 2p/litre x 30 litres per week for 10 years x 26 million drivers in the UK alone = £8.1 billion.

    Wow!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    Torres scores for Chelsea in the Europa Cup Final against Benfica, 30 minutes left!
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "Will this help the Tories win GE2015 or help them lose it?"

    Are you implying that banging on about Europe might not actually be a brilliant master strategy at all?

    Preposterous! Look at how worried Farage is. ;)
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,475



    Tim's " lunatic " slur is nothing new for the dogmatic left ;
    " In the twentieth century, systematic political abuse of psychiatry took place in the Soviet Union. Psychiatry was used as a tool during the reign of Leonid Brezhnev to eliminate political opponents ("dissidents") who openly expressed views that contradicted official dogma."

    You mean like the Guidoites did to Brown?

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    Oh well, Benfica equalise from the penalty spot...
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    O/T

    Potentially brain-numbing numbers were the three oil companies concerned be found guilty of having overcharged for a period of up to 10 years.

    By way of illustration - say 2p/litre x 30 litres per week for 10 years x 26 million drivers in the UK alone = £8.1 billion.

    Wow!

    Yet another scandal that flourished under New Labour and is now finally being cleared up. How many more to come ?

  • samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    tim said:

    FPT - Take a walk around the Bangladeshi, sorry,Jewish areas of Spitalfields and Whitechapel.
    And marvel at how everything changes but everything stays the same.

    http://www.ibiblio.org/yiddish/Places/London/london.htm

    Good grief!

    All I said was its not asurprise that the councillors in Tower Hamlets speak in Bengali when the street signs are in Bengali and there is a huge lopsidedness to the borough in terms of ethnicity

    (The rich white city types are less likely to be bothered being on the council I would think)

    As proven by the ons stats tim linked to

    Banglatown and Spitslfields ward 40%Bangladeshi 27% white British
    tower Hamlets ward 2% Asian 92% white British

    Nothing more, nothing less. I know east london has always had lots of immigrants, this isn't a recent thing, it's not o do with new labour, I have never known the area to be any different having lived and worked relatively close most of my life, and I don't care.


    Why carry it on and on? @SouthamObserver feels more strongly about the councillors language than I do, all isaid was it was no surprise.

    @antifrank yes Brick Lane is quite trendy know I never said any different, in fact I never mentioned Brick lane
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Palmer, exciting times in Wimbledon makes me think more of Maria Sharapova than Conservative councillors.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    With so many Tory MPs voting against gay marriage and for legislation for an EU referendum, many will surely campaign on a personal ticket to win over UKIPites
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    PPP GOP 2016 nomination

    •Marco Rubio 16% [21%] (22%) {21%} [18%] (10%)
    •Chris Christie 15% [15%] (13%) {14%} [14%] (21%)
    •Jeb Bush 15% [12%] (13%) {14%} [12%] (17%)
    •Rand Paul 14% [17%] (10%) {5%} [7%] (4%)
    •Paul Ryan 9% [12%] (15%) {16%} [12%] (7%)
    •Ted Cruz 7%
    •Rick Santorum 5% [5%] [4%] (12%)
    •Bobby Jindal 3% [4%] (4%) {3%} (3%)
    •Susana Martinez 1% [1%] (1%) {2%}
    •Someone else/Undecided 15% [10%] (8%) {7%} [7%] (10%)
  • samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán


    No need to be afraid you checked the facts of my anecdote and it proved me more right than I thought

    So thank you I owe you one
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    edited May 2013
    I think a 3% lead for Labour is more indicative of whether the Tories will win the next election.

    As Mike points out, Europe doesn't rate highly among the voters, so this vote won't move voters, will it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    StarkDowning - No, Labour now has a base of 34% whatever happens
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    As some one who enjoys poking the Hornets' nest, I have to confess I've never poked the hornets nest in this way.

    Swedish Man Dies After Having Sex With Hornet’s Nest

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/467900/20130515/man-sweden-dies-sex-hornet-s-nest.htm
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,644
    HYUFD said:

    StarkDowning - No, Labour now has a base of 34% whatever happens

    How do you work that out?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,246
    That looks good.

    My 50/1 bet on Rand Paul is looking promising.
    HYUFD said:

    PPP GOP 2016 nomination

    •Marco Rubio 16% [21%] (22%) {21%} [18%] (10%)
    •Chris Christie 15% [15%] (13%) {14%} [14%] (21%)
    •Jeb Bush 15% [12%] (13%) {14%} [12%] (17%)
    •Rand Paul 14% [17%] (10%) {5%} [7%] (4%)
    •Paul Ryan 9% [12%] (15%) {16%} [12%] (7%)
    •Ted Cruz 7%
    •Rick Santorum 5% [5%] [4%] (12%)
    •Bobby Jindal 3% [4%] (4%) {3%} (3%)
    •Susana Martinez 1% [1%] (1%) {2%}
    •Someone else/Undecided 15% [10%] (8%) {7%} [7%] (10%)

  • If Chelsea win, will John Terry get changed for the photos?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,081
    Evening, PB.

    Any data yet on Tory abstentions on the amendment - did Cameron manage to cobble together even half his Parliamentary party to support the Queen's Speech? It's funny how traditions change: in the good old days of the 19th century coalitions the Prime Minister would have been off to see Her Majesty after a division like this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    Philiph - Well they got that in 1992 and have won back all the Labourites who went off Blair, while lost a few who voted for him
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    As some one who enjoys poking the Hornets' nest, I have to confess I've never poked the hornets nest in this way.

    Swedish Man Dies After Having Sex With Hornet’s Nest

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/467900/20130515/man-sweden-dies-sex-hornet-s-nest.htm

    Good Lord!

    Doesn't bear thinking about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    MS - Indeed, in my view the GOP will pick a conservative in 2016 after 2 losing moderates, whoever wins Iowa will probably be the conservative standard bearer against the more moderate Christie who will win NH, Jeb won't run (he knows he stands no chance against Hillary) and Rubio is unlikely to win the rural and solidly white Iowa caucus, so if Paul wins Iowa he stands a good chance!
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,644
    HYUFD said:

    Philiph - Well they got that in 1992 and have won back all the Labourites who went off Blair, while lost a few who voted for him

    OK I see what you think, and why. I suspect it is miles out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    Tim/FoxinSoxuk/TSE - I think that is taking S and M a little too far!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    Chelsea score in injury time 2-1! Looks like they will lift Europa Cup!
  • samonipadsamonipad Posts: 182
    Incredible header by Ivanovic
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,644
    HYUFD said:

    Tim/FoxinSoxuk/TSE - I think that is taking S and M a little too far!

    He got his Hornets and Whores' nets mixed up, I guess.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,644

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
    Another?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 10,503
    Let's be fair, Mr Martin has never been a fan of the Coalition but at least he's finally worked out what the rest of us have reslised for the better part of three years. The Coalition is and always has been principally David Cameron's project. It had three principal motivations:

    1) Whether actual or not, I suspect the Conservatives were terrified that Clegg would do a deal with Brown and leave them out in the cold once again. The offer of talks on the Friday afternoon prevented that but made the eventual outcome inevitable.
    2) The presence of the Liberal Democrats made sure Cameron wouldn't or couldn't suffer the same fate as John Major and become the prisoner of those elements in the party which did not share his vision.
    3) It neutralised the Liberal Democrats as the potential home for anti-Conservative protest votes (their traditional home especially in the first term of a Conservative Government).

    The problem is:

    1) I don't think a Clegg-Brown deal was ever a serious runner so a minority Conservative administration would have been possible.
    2) It hasn't.
    3) Yes, the Lib Dems have been neutralised but UKIP has filled the vacuum that nature abhors.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675

    O/T

    Potentially brain-numbing numbers were the three oil companies concerned be found guilty of having overcharged for a period of up to 10 years.

    By way of illustration - say 2p/litre x 30 litres per week for 10 years x 26 million drivers in the UK alone = £8.1 billion.

    Wow!

    "The grabbing hands grab all they can
    Everything Counts in large amounts"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675
    Congrats to Chelsea! Could have won it earlier if Lampard hadn't hit the crossbar!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,969
    Philliph - Classic, we will have to see in 2015 on Labour!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    Drooling after Princess Leia.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    I've played in as many winning European finals as John Terry.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776

    Drooling after Princess Leia.
    On the bank holiday weekend I went to Legoland with some friends. It was a Star Wars themed day, and there were many Imperial Stormtroopers and even Darth Vader walking about. The kids loved it.

    But best of all was a rather portly Princess Leia - think how Princess Leia would look nowadays - and a Han Solo who had rather too much of a beer belly.

    They should be hired for the new films. They wouldn't suck as much as Jar Jar Binks, and be more pleasant on the eyes.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
    Of course, how many Brits in Spain according to Eurostat?
    Remind me of that figure.

    The nonsense posted on here by the xenophobes and anti gay marriage buffoons who are new UKIP converts annoys you more than it does me anyway, be honest.
    Most of them couldn't tell you what a UKIP policy is.
    Could you explain to me how you get to "millions" of Brits in other EU countries again, the pb fact checker that you are?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013
    Allister Heath has reached the same conclusion as me (only about two weeks later than me, but we'll forgive him). An Englishman's home is his castle in the sky, and when it goes up in value, he feels on cloud nine (I'll work on this metaphor but you see what I mean).

    That must be why I'm getting increasingly depressed I suppose, in contrast to the relative optimism (relative to what the prevailing mood before was at any rate) in some parts lately, given I wish house prices were hugely lower.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
    Of course, how many Brits in Spain according to Eurostat?
    Remind me of that figure.

    The nonsense posted on here by the xenophobes and anti gay marriage buffoons who are new UKIP converts annoys you more than it does me anyway, be honest.
    Most of them couldn't tell you what a UKIP policy is.
    I think you will find that is called changing the subject Tim. A classic deflection technique when one knows one is wrong.

    I linked to the exact Eurostat figures when we last discussed this and they proved that Socrates was correct and you were wrong. This was then backed up with your own link to the Channel 4 fact check which confirmed that the figures you were using were basically 'jacked up' (to use Channel 4's own description).

    I am afraid your self proclaimed reputation as the arbiter of truth on PB is rather in tatters after that little episode.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675

    Drooling after Princess Leia.
    For those that missed this yesterday:

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
    Of course, how many Brits in Spain according to Eurostat?
    Remind me of that figure.

    The nonsense posted on here by the xenophobes and anti gay marriage buffoons who are new UKIP converts annoys you more than it does me anyway, be honest.
    Most of them couldn't tell you what a UKIP policy is.
    I think you will find that is called changing the subject Tim. A classic deflection technique when one knows one is wrong.

    I linked to the exact Eurostat figures when we last discussed this and they proved that Socrates was correct and you were wrong. This was then backed up with your own link to the Channel 4 fact check which confirmed that the figures you were using were basically 'jacked up' (to use Channel 4's own description).

    I am afraid your self proclaimed reputation as the arbiter of truth on PB is rather in tatters after that little episode.
    I don't think there's anything wrong with people making mistakes. If you post 4000 posts in such a short time, it's bound to happen. But we should all have the good grace to simply admit when we made a mistake. If you can't do that it comes across as very hypocritical when you try to go on and on about others' real or alleged mistakes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    edited May 2013

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Babylon 5 or Farscape?!

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    On Dr who

    Mr eagles,have you watched all of series 7 ? if so,what you think of series 7 ?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    kle4 said:

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Bablylon5 or Farscape?!

    New BSGer, but I loved the old BSG (except for Boxey and Daggit)

    I love B5 too, but Into the Fire irritated me no end, telling the Shadows to get the hell out of our galaxy, it's like Luke telling the Empire to get the hell out of his galaxy, and them complying.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 30,776

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    No Babylon 5, perhaps the best televised space opera?

    Or even Farscape which, when you put the puppets to one side, has brilliant plots (and the rather lovely Aeryn Sun).

    http://images.wikia.com/farscape/images/1/18/Aeryn_sun_1.jpg

    It's really weird being married to a woman who's a sci-fi geek.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 57,431

    kle4 said:

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Bablylon5 or Farscape?!

    New BSGer, but I loved the old BSG (except for Boxey and Daggit)

    I love B5 too, but Into the Fire irritated me no end, telling the Shadows to get the hell out of our galaxy, it's like Luke telling the Empire to get the hell out of his galaxy, and them complying.
    What about stargate?! ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    On Dr who

    Mr eagles,have you watched all of series 7 ? if so,what you think of series 7 ?

    I've enjoyed it, especially the Submarine one with the 80s music reference, a lot will depend on the season finale turns out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Bablylon5 or Farscape?!

    New BSGer, but I loved the old BSG (except for Boxey and Daggit)

    I love B5 too, but Into the Fire irritated me no end, telling the Shadows to get the hell out of our galaxy, it's like Luke telling the Empire to get the hell out of his galaxy, and them complying.
    What about stargate?! ;)
    SG1 was awesome, some of the spin offs less so.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    FPT - Take a walk around the Bangladeshi, sorry,Jewish areas of Spitalfields and Whitechapel.
    And marvel at how everything changes but everything stays the same.

    http://www.ibiblio.org/yiddish/Places/London/london.htm

    Quite interesting tim. Are you sure you havent got Jewish roots yourself?
    One of the sites mentioned in this article -Valance Rd, Stepney - was the home of my mum's sister, in a prefab from 1946-50, built on the site of the V2 disaster of 1945.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135

    kle4 said:

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Bablylon5 or Farscape?!

    New BSGer, but I loved the old BSG (except for Boxey and Daggit)

    I love B5 too, but Into the Fire irritated me no end, telling the Shadows to get the hell out of our galaxy, it's like Luke telling the Empire to get the hell out of his galaxy, and them complying.
    Aw, come on, that was what made it great! (or would have done, if they'd been able to schedule it to the end of Season 5 as planned, rather than thinking they were going to be cancelled in S4 and rushing it forward hastily). Two godlike races, one seemingly benevolent, each revealed as meddling knight templary arses playing a board game with the lesser races, until the younger races step up together to say they can make their own mistakes and not be manipulated anymore, that they refuse to play the game by those rules. Empowering.

    It's not Luke telling the empire to get the hell out, it's Luke telling Gods to get the hell out and let him fight the empire his own way.

    S5 sucked though.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,197
    tim said:


    The question is not whether the Osborne bubble can last until the next election, it's how fast does it spread out from London.
    Besides the fact, as Heath says in the piece, that the Tories are screwing the politics,as Major did.

    The big danger politically is that a narrative has developed that Osborne has stoked a mini house price bubble. In reality the effect of his measures has been minimal, but now any reverse in house prices will be blamed on Osborne.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    The DM Reporter ‏@DMReporter 1h

    DAVID CAMERON: “I refute all allegations that the Conservative Party are unmanageable. Nigel Farage is doing a great job…”
    *chortle*
    Josh Newlove ‏@JoshNewlove 2h

    Tories undisciplined and split - again. 115 rebels on #EU amendment deliver another broadside into the ever-weakening leadership of Cameron.

    The incompetent fops are powerless as the tory party runs about like headless chickens over Europe, yet again. Time to send for John Major to sort the shambles out. ;)

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    Old or new BSGer? And no room for Bablylon5 or Farscape?!

    New BSGer, but I loved the old BSG (except for Boxey and Daggit)

    I love B5 too, but Into the Fire irritated me no end, telling the Shadows to get the hell out of our galaxy, it's like Luke telling the Empire to get the hell out of his galaxy, and them complying.
    Aw, come on, that was what made it great! (or would have done, if they'd been able to schedule it to the end of Season 5 as planned, rather than thinking they were going to be cancelled in S4 and rushing it forward hastily). Two godlike races, one seemingly benevolent, each revealed as meddling knight templary arses playing a board game with the lesser races, until the younger races step up together to say they can make their own mistakes and not be manipulated anymore, that they refuse to play the game by those rules. Empowering.

    It's not Luke telling the empire to get the hell out, it's Luke telling Gods to get the hell out and let him fight the empire his own way.

    S5 sucked though.
    Season 5 sucked the big hairy balls.

    I don't blame JMS for that, his plan was for season 5 to focus on retaking Earth from President Clark, but when it looked liked season 4 was going to be the final season, he had to rush that storyline.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    @Sam

    Be afraid.
    I am the PB Factchecker
    No pasarán

    Funny how when you were checking facts a couple of days ago you were proved wrong by both Channel 4 Fact Check and Eurostat.

    Maybe you should think about another career.
    Of course, how many Brits in Spain according to Eurostat?
    Remind me of that figure.

    The nonsense posted on here by the xenophobes and anti gay marriage buffoons who are new UKIP converts annoys you more than it does me anyway, be honest.
    Most of them couldn't tell you what a UKIP policy is.
    I think you will find that is called changing the subject Tim. A classic deflection technique when one knows one is wrong.

    I linked to the exact Eurostat figures when we last discussed this and they proved that Socrates was correct and you were wrong. This was then backed up with your own link to the Channel 4 fact check which confirmed that the figures you were using were basically 'jacked up' (to use Channel 4's own description).

    I am afraid your self proclaimed reputation as the arbiter of truth on PB is rather in tatters after that little episode.
    Not really, I was using the FO figures for Brits in Spain.
    What's the Eurostat estimate?

    There's an interesting thread to be written by the way on how intelligent,non racist libertarian UKIP voters feel about the invasion of the hordes from the authoritarian xenophobic wing of the Tory Party.
    I think you may be the man to write it.
    I think I have already made clear my views on that but, as I have said in the past, since I consider parties to be at best a necessary evil really I could probably find more to criticise UKIP over than almost anyone else here. I suspect you should be grateful that as a tool they are so poorly managed as to be comparatively ineffective.

    If over the next few years I see no change in the way UKIP addresses socially Libertarian issues then my position as a supporter will very quickly become untenable. For now they are the best of a bad lot because of their position on the EU and some of their anti-statist beliefs. But the homophobia is something that will have to change very rapidly or the remaining Libertarians within the party will certainly leave. We are not exactly party people in the first place.

    And now you have successfully diverted me as a well.

    I will dig out those numbers for you and return to mock you mercilessly once again tomorrow. I am too wine befuddled to do any serious research this evening.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    'Sounds like William Hague was key to late surge in rebel vote, told '22 it was genuinely free vote, gave green light' mont RT
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    Jan Aage Fjortoft ‏@JanAageFjortoft 16m

    Torres is now reigning World Champion, EuroChampion, ChampionsLeague winner and EuropaLeague winner...

    Where did his career go wrong..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 26,352

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a Trekkie first, A Whovian Second, and BSGer third and a Star Wars fourth.
    On Dr who

    Mr eagles,have you watched all of series 7 ? if so,what you think of series 7 ?

    New series BSGer, Whovian, slowly developing Trekkie (seen everything years ago but starting to re-evaluate more favourably), Wheedon fanatic (Firefly, Buffy/Angel and Avengers), Jedi and Blakian. Looking forward to the Blakes 7 reboot.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    tim said:

    Carola said:

    'Sounds like William Hague was key to late surge in rebel vote, told '22 it was genuinely free vote, gave green light' mont RT

    Same as Daves signals to the HoL rebels which cost them the boundary changes.
    Oh well, they think they know what they are doing

    I don't think even they believe that - they'd be projecting less of a panicky desperation if they at least believed they had it all in hand, however falsely.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,767
    edited May 2013
    Sun Politics ‏@Sun_Politics 1m

    YouGov/Sun poll tonight: 1st poll to ask the actual referendum question in Tory bill - 37% say YES (to stay in), 43% say NO (to leave).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,135
    Perhaps I'm wrong, but given the reputation, I'd imagine it's been a while since Dennis Skinner voted alongside so many Tory MPs.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    tim said:

    SeanT said:

    tim said:


    The question is not whether the Osborne bubble can last until the next election, it's how fast does it spread out from London.
    Besides the fact, as Heath says in the piece, that the Tories are screwing the politics,as Major did.

    The big danger politically is that a narrative has developed that Osborne has stoked a mini house price bubble. In reality the effect of his measures has been minimal, but now any reverse in house prices will be blamed on Osborne.
    The effect of his measures has certainly not been minimal. They may be crazy and reckless, but they are not trivial or minimal:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/houseprices/10039583/Help-to-Buy-bubble-could-push-house-prices-up-by-30pc.html

    As I said weeks back, Osborne is already on Plan B - that's B for property Bubble. And it could easily work.
    It's PlanC, plan A got dumped, Plan B was printing and trying to boost business lending, Plan C is a house price bubble.

    The problem is the big stat of the day, pay up by 0.4% pa, inflation 2.8% pa.
    I think the stat of the day is the rising growth forecast. we also had no triple dip, indeed the revised figures show only that there was a single dip, but a big Labour one.

    still some way to go, but increasingly Balls borrow and spend policies look past their sell by date.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,118
    Stargate is excellent indeed. Here's a spin-off that should've been made, but wasn't:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6583fGajLTQ
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,197
    SeanT said:

    tim said:


    The question is not whether the Osborne bubble can last until the next election, it's how fast does it spread out from London.
    Besides the fact, as Heath says in the piece, that the Tories are screwing the politics,as Major did.

    The big danger politically is that a narrative has developed that Osborne has stoked a mini house price bubble. In reality the effect of his measures has been minimal, but now any reverse in house prices will be blamed on Osborne.
    The effect of his measures has certainly not been minimal. They may be crazy and reckless, but they are not trivial or minimal:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/houseprices/10039583/Help-to-Buy-bubble-could-push-house-prices-up-by-30pc.html

    As I said weeks back, Osborne is already on Plan B - that's B for property Bubble. And it could easily work.
    Nationwide House Price Index: "Price of a typical home declined by 0.1% between March and April"

    http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/default.htm
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,675

    Sunil and mr eagles,which camp would you be in - lol

    Star Wars and Doctor Who fans in clash

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/22546463

    I'm a bit of both a Star Wars and a Star Trek fan, but I was disappointed with the various recent "prequels"! I especially like Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, and The Empire Strikes Back, they are my favourite episodes from each of the "sagas".
This discussion has been closed.