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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why People Voted UKIP

SystemSystem Posts: 11,690
edited June 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why People Voted UKIP

How important was each of the following as a possible reason for your decision to vote UKIP at the European elections on Thursday? (Only those that replied 10/10 are shown – 10 being very important)

Read the full story here


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    ZenPaganZenPagan Posts: 689
    While the first two don't come as any shock the third one is interesting because it implies that the current approach of the established parties with digging up quotes isn't going to be particularly effective as it is likely to be a case of "well he probably shouldn't have said that but at least he said what he actually thinks".
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why people voted UKIP
    is a subset of
    Why people didn't vote Conservative.
    Because they are inane. They want to step closer to the chasm of purple darkness which will engulf us all as we crawl on our knees towards our doom.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Briton need better fruitcake - 82%
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen"

    3 hours.
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    Whilst these are the top issues, it doesn't really give a clue as to how many people are so motivated by such issues they are unlikely to switch from a UKIP vote. Whilst it is always interesting to see why people vote the way they do it doesn't necessarily mean we can divine much.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    That Labour number is a surprise - I'd have guessed the position with Con reversed and the gap bigger! I wonder how many of these are the Lab vote 2010 stay at home crowd?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    Today's YouGov (Lab +6) reminds us of what a fearful world UKIP voters live in:

    VI: UKIP (Con)

    Not have enough money to live comfortably: 61 (41)
    Be victim of burglary, robbery or mugging: 49 (24)
    Suffer directly from public service spending cuts: 71 (38)
    Lose out to foreign factories/workers: 68 (37)
    Lose job: 61 (40)
    Lose home: 50 (21)
    Suffer discrimination from local councils/employers: 50 (19)
    Suffer ill-health: 58 (38)

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/ind922q389/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-020614.pdf
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.

    Business for New Europe (BNE), which includes the chairmen of BAE Systems, RBS, BT Group, ScottishPower and the London Stock Exchange among its advisory board, said Scotland would face a “long and winding road” back into the EU.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10870528/Independent-Scotland-at-least-three-years-outside-the-EU.html
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark

    It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.

    And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark

    It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.

    And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
    Are you that patronising and arrogant in real life?

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    edited June 2014
    Scott_P said:

    An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.

    In line with the views of European voters - that Scotland would join the EU, but would have to apply in the usual manner (article 49) not the Salmond accelerated article 48 manner:

    http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/fh13w2r2ie/FULL_April_May_Eurotrack_Results_Website.pdf
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    TSE Perhaps you ought to have mentioned just how bad ComRes did in the Euros.

    Three weeks before they had UKIP on 38% with CON on 18%. On the day the gap between the two parties was 3.6%.

    The ComRes final poll came bottom in terms of accuracy.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is Jack W moonlighting as leader writer for the Sun?

    @Sun_Politics: 'Labour will never return to Downing Street as long as Ed is their leader' http://t.co/qW4AX878Kw
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    Some interesting perspective from that Euro tracker comparing the UK to France & Germany:

    UK/France/Germany - net agree:

    Most crimes committed by immigrants: -26 / -4 / -7
    Govt should persuade immigrants to go home: -17 / -3 / -7
    Politicians personally corrupt: +10 / +43 / +11


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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Scott_P said:

    Is Jack W moonlighting as leader writer for the Sun?

    @Sun_Politics: 'Labour will never return to Downing Street as long as Ed is their leader' http://t.co/qW4AX878Kw

    If I am, I certainly haven't had the spondulicks for my efforts ....

  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen"

    90 minutes 90 seconds
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @LadPolitics: UKIP now out to 6/1 to win Newark by-election on Thursday.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    GeoffM said:

    You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark

    It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.

    And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
    Are you that patronising and arrogant in real life?

    Well, it's the truth, isn't it? (At least, you don't argue that it isn't: "no case - abuse plaintiff's attorney" as someone once said...)

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,019
    ToryJim said:
    Quel surprise , a fanny enjoys the witterings of an even bigger fanny
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    The Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University spots the flaw in the Nats "independence dividend" - it's based on faster productivity growth than rUK. Yet the sterling zone they also want is predicated on having similar productivity growth to rUK.....

    http://ronaldmacdonaldblog.tumblr.com/post/87595725921/currency-crisis-costs-for-an-independent-scotland
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    I didn't realise Syria was pretending to have a proper election today. Do they genuinely think anyone will believe the result or conclude it was fair when half the country is in ruins or being fought over and large numbers of Syrians are refugees in foreign lands?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27675343
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,019
    Scott_P said:

    An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.

    Business for New Europe (BNE), which includes the chairmen of BAE Systems, RBS, BT Group, ScottishPower and the London Stock Exchange among its advisory board, said Scotland would face a “long and winding road” back into the EU.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10870528/Independent-Scotland-at-least-three-years-outside-the-EU.html

    More like the country's most self seeking arse licking greedy cretins whined today,
    posted by the sites biggest whiner.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University

    Another English Yoonyoonist bully...

    Oh, wait...
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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Quel surprise , a fanny enjoys the witterings of an even bigger fanny
    Oh how predictable, I see we've been marinating in bile overnight.
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    shadsyshadsy Posts: 289
    If any PBers are in Newark today, I will be outside the Ladbrokes on Market Place from about 9.30am. Most likely next toa chalkboard with some odds scrawled on it.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?

    The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Innocent,

    You're obviously not a Kipper, but using your method of stereotyping .... and assuming you're a voter, you're either a baby-eater, a communist traitor, or a sandal-wearing hippy who disapproves of other people stereotyping.

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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    ToryJim said:

    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Quel surprise , a fanny enjoys the witterings of an even bigger fanny
    Oh how predictable, I see we've been marinating in bile overnight.
    Predictably Malcolm's French is as barbaric as his English.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    You can win them back on policy grounds if you have policies for them, Cameron doesn't.
    He has now left it too late running in to the GE to offer anything credible.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,600
    Off topic questions. Thinking about doing a little PB for the first time.

    1 - Does anyone offer spread betting on politics these days?
    2 - Is there an up to date starting guide anywhere? Obviously I have the book.

    Thanks
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    John Denham makes some interesting comments on Labour and Immigration on Labour List

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    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422
    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    Remarkably few will be tempted back imho, why should they be? Little will change policy wise in the foreseeable future, at least not enough that will tempt them. – Anger and frustration are the motivating forces at play here and it will take more than a metaphorical aspirin to appease.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Financier said:

    John Denham makes some interesting comments on Labour and Immigration on Labour List

    Is he a racist ?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    ToryJim said:

    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
    If it was blank canvas, Miliband would be at 70% in the polls. He has fewer policies than the kippers.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,019

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
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    Why do people vote UKIP?

    The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.

    Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.

    I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.

    How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @ScottP
    Scott_P said:

    I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?

    The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?

    Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....


  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761

    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
    I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!

    Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    BobaFett said:

    @ScottP

    Scott_P said:

    I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?

    The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?

    Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....


    Leave Avery out of this.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Being sulky and alienated and lashing out at its elders? UKIP is no longer a child, it is a teenager.

    Why do people vote UKIP?

    The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.

    Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.

    I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.

    How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.

  • Options
    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Today's YouGov: 2010 Splits

    The Conservative 2010 split showed the lowest Cons retention for 2014 at 69% and the highest UKIP desertion at 23%.

    Also the LD split showed the highest desertion to UKIP at 15%.
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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    @ScottP

    Scott_P said:

    I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?

    The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?

    Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....


    Leave Avery out of this.
    :)

    I'm having a bad week and barely slept last night because things are so bad at work.

    Thanks for cheering up a stressed, tired man Alan.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited June 2014
    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Isn't this the Indyref equivalent of some Tory posters' belief that their party is so self-evidently correct that the only reasons people vote Labour are insanity or bribery by Gordon Brown's client state ?
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758

    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
    I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!

    Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
    Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,422

    ToryJim said:

    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
    If it was blank canvas, Miliband would be at 70% in the polls. He has fewer policies than the kippers.
    No because Labour has history, a record of past performance to temper the lack of detail. So they pick up a few "this time it will be differents" and those for whom voting is still a binary choice but not much more. Add to that the flavour that Miliband is adding to Labour and most people think they can divine the outline of his approach. UKIP is different, no record, no ideological ballast, no policies, just a vague notion that "they tell it like it is". When you actually stop and ask a voter what a UKIP spokesperson or Farage has actually said that appeals, it's blank faces all round. There's a lot of projection, and Farage and UKIP may find that when they show their hand some people may balk.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:

    Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.

    I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds

    You can win them back on policy grounds if you have policies for them, Cameron doesn't.
    He has now left it too late running in to the GE to offer anything credible.
    What policies?

    It's tough to make a philosophical ansŵer why brexit without a referendum is better than an in-out vote. Referendum now vs 2017 isn't that fundamental a point - more one of tactics. If you don't think Cameron will keep his promise the your beef isn't with the EU really. - it's with Cameron.

    on immigration - yes things. Should be tightened, but without leaving the EU it's tough to take tha strong a positîon.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    CD13 said:

    Innocent,

    You're obviously not a Kipper, but using your method of stereotyping .... and assuming you're a voter, you're either a baby-eater, a communist traitor, or a sandal-wearing hippy who disapproves of other people stereotyping.

    The latter two are so 20th century...

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good morning, everyone.

    If Scotland votes No it'll be interesting to see how the most ardent Yes supporters respond.

    I also see that an unelected foreign bureaucrat has called on us to raise taxes. Given our recovery is much better than most of Europe's (all of Europe's?) perhaps he should be offering advice to France instead.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013
    Financier said:

    Today's YouGov: 2010 Splits

    The Conservative 2010 split showed the lowest Cons retention for 2014 at 69% and the highest UKIP desertion at 23%.

    Also the LD split showed the highest desertion to UKIP at 15%.

    That's because the LibDems in 2010 were for people who believed:

    "Their leader is someone like me."
    "The other parties are all the same."
    "We need a new kind of politics."

    In 2015, UKIP will sweep up a lot of these votes. (Just as Bepe Grillo's 5 Stars has picked up a lot of these votes in Italy.)
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,176

    ToryJim said:
    Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.

    And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....

    I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Conscious uncoupling innit.

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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    We know why most people vote for UKIP.

    100 years of misgovernment by the Lab/Lib/Con.
    75 years of mismanaging Britain's decline by the Lab/Lib/Con.
    40 years of surrender to the EU by the Lab/Lib/Con.

    New Thread please!
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Good morning, everyone.

    If Scotland votes No it'll be interesting to see how the most ardent Yes supporters respond.

    [snip].

    Are you referring to PBs very own wee, cowrin, tim'rous beasties, or Scotland as a whole? ; )
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. StClare, Scotland as a whole, you bounder.

    There'll be the Grumpy Index, whether the No is taken in good heart or with lots of grumbling, and whether Salmond copies the EU vileness of trying to ask the question again as soon as possible, ignoring the will of the people.

    Unlike the EU, however, Salmond's party could win a majority again, which could be considered the nod from the people for Poll 2: Poll Harder. However, if he doesn't rule out a second referendum that could put off voters who quite like the SNP as a party of government but don't want years more of referendum and debate about separation.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    These are of varying degrees of interest, not necessarily related to the percentages against them. Those naming "David Cameron" and "gay marriage" are pretty surely disaffected Conservatives. Those naming "Nigel Farage" are cultists.

    The really interesting one is "UKIP say what they think". I'd have thought that's a pretty obvious avenue of attack for other parties. It's hardly as if there aren't examples of UKIP being all things to all men (women, not so much).
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen :

    20 minutes
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019
    Looking at some of the MSM reports today about the Trojan Horse issue, anyone would think that there was a time jump between 1997 and 2010! I find it amazing that a letter written during the dying gasps of Major's administration can now be held up a Tory mismanagement. What about the intervening 'lost decade' of uncontrolled immigration and carte blanche approach to ethnic issues.

    Talk about double speak, expunge all record of the Labour mismanagement and perhaps the electorate will forget. Orwellianism at its worst.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Will England's early exit from the World Cup affect Indyref? Didn't Harold Wilson reckon the Tories won in 1970 because of Gordon Banks's tummy bug?
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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.

    It was on Sky this morning. An old wrinkly was interviewed and pulled out a dog eared copy of a letter he sent to Chris Patten (SoS Education) about radical Muslim infiltration of a Birmingham school (Golden Hill?)
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Blue_rog said:

    Looking at some of the MSM reports today about the Trojan Horse issue, anyone would think that there was a time jump between 1997 and 2010! I find it amazing that a letter written during the dying gasps of Major's administration can now be held up a Tory mismanagement. What about the intervening 'lost decade' of uncontrolled immigration and carte blanche approach to ethnic issues.

    Talk about double speak, expunge all record of the Labour mismanagement and perhaps the electorate will forget. Orwellianism at its worst.

    Orwell didn't name Big Brother's ideology Ingsoc without motive.

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    Blue_rogBlue_rog Posts: 2,019

    Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.

    And the link

    http://news.sky.com/story/1274139/muslim-school-plot-fears-were-raised-in-1994

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Rog, sounds like blatant bias, alas.

    Mr. L, Uruguay's undoubted victory will probably not make a difference. I suspect England not winning the World Cup has been anticipated by everyone.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,966

    Being sulky and alienated and lashing out at its elders? UKIP is no longer a child, it is a teenager.


    Where as the Lib Dems have remained as petulant 3 year olds, thinking the world should be all pink and fluffy with all nastiness removed at the wave of a magic wand and then stamping their little feet and sulking when it doesn't work that way.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS ****

    The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen" - 13 seats that will determine the nature of the contest.

    The 13 seats are a geographically and political spread of various target and marginal seats - 3 seats from the joint London and the South region, 3 from the East including a Ukip target, 2 each from the North and Midlands and 1 seat each from the West country, Wales and Scotland.

    From Tuesday 10th June the regular ARSE 2015 national projection will be joined by the "JackW Dozen" and will be called as follows :

    TCTC - Too Close To Call - Under 500 votes.
    LIKELY HOLD/GAIN - 500 - 2500 votes.
    HOLD/GAIN - Over 2500 votes.

    The "JackW Dozen" with the 2010 winner, majority and second placed party are :

    Bury North - Con - 2,243 - Lab
    Pudsey - Con - 1,659 - Lab
    Broxtowe - Con - 389 - Lab
    Warwickshire North - Con - 54 - Lab
    Cambridge - LibDem - 6792 - Con - 3 way marginal.
    Ipswich - Con - 2,079 - Lab
    Watford - Con - 1,425 - LibDem - 3 way marginal.
    Croydon Central - Con - 2,879 - Lab
    Enfield North - Con - 1,692 - Lab
    Cornwall North - LibDem - 2,981- Con
    Vale of Glamorgan - Con - 4,276 - Lab
    Ochil & South Perthshire - Lab - 5,187 - SNP
    Great Yarmouth - Con - 4,276 - Lab - Ukip target

    ......................................................................................

    WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
    JNN - Jacobite News Network
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    malcolmg said:

    ToryJim said:
    Quel surprise , a fanny enjoys the witterings of an even bigger fanny
    Mind your language Malcolm!

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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761

    malcolmg said:

    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
    I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!

    Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
    Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
    As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:

    Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'

    Unionists: 'Where from?'

    Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'

    Did I miss anything?

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @JackW

    How flexible is your ARSE? That is, if Labour remain ~4pts ahead in, say, September, will its outpourings change?

    Interested to see your seat forecasts.

    I wonder if Fett's Four will feature - Dewsbury, Northampton N, Hove, Stroud.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @pppolitics: Tories now 1/12 to win the #Newark by-election on Thursday http://t.co/uGagnOW6o0
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:

    Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'

    Unionists: 'Where from?'

    Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'

    Did I miss anything?

    Favourite from the Telegraph comments

    yoyoegg
    Wee Eck has taken advice from constitutional expert Professor Yaffle.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BobaFett said:

    @JackW

    How flexible is your ARSE? That is, if Labour remain ~4pts ahead in, say, September, will its outpourings change?

    Interested to see your seat forecasts.

    I wonder if Fett's Four will feature - Dewsbury, Northampton N, Hove, Stroud.

    If new evidence and information comes forward then the projection changes accordingly.

    Your four seats all made my long list but failed to make the final cut.

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark

    It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.

    That's just silly. UKIP won more votes than Labour, Conservatives, and LDs. People who chose not to vote did not have a say.

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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    @MorrisDancer - Mr. StClare, Scotland as a whole, you bounder.

    I’m sure the good folk of Scotlandshire will take a NO vote in good spirit. – Although personally, I will not be venturing forth beyond Berwick-on-tweed, just in case they don’t.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    JackW - an excellent idea and excellently selected seats. I look forward to the first prognostication.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    F1: Romanian Forza Rossa team could join in 2016 (same time as Haas):
    http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/forza-rossa-gets-an-entry/

    That's good news, with Caterham up for sale and potentially out of the sport it's good the field won't (probably) be down to 20 or even fewer cars.
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    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    edited June 2014
    JackW said:

    Vale of Glamorgan - Con - 4,276 - Lab

    Vale of Glamorgan is number 64 on Labour's target list. Given a few gains from the Lib Dems further down their target list it pretty much marks the point at which Labour gain a majority.

    I look forward to your predictions.
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    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596

    malcolmg said:

    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
    I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!

    Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
    Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
    As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:

    Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'

    Unionists: 'Where from?'

    Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'

    Did I miss anything?

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100274424/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-as-we-know-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


    Should they have just done the referendum on devo-max?

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Dugarbandier, no.

    It seems Scotland's destined for devo-max, as it's called, whether they want it or not. Unless England finally gets some sort of equality in the realm of devolution they might as well divide the union now.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453


    Should they have just done the referendum on devo-max?

    No.

    The Nats have been whining about that on Twitter too.

    It's essential that the referendum delivers a definitive Yes or No to separation.

    If it's No to separation, the state of devolution is open for debate.

    If it's Yes to separation, devolution is extinct.
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    SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @Morris_Dancer

    " Romanian Forza Rossa team could join in 2016"

    Will their neighbours in the next garage be comfortable with a bunch of Romanians moving next door, or would they prefer Germans?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761

    malcolmg said:

    The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.

    And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......

    Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
    Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)

    But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
    .
    Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
    As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:

    Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'

    Unionists: 'Where from?'

    Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'

    Did I miss anything?

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100274424/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-as-we-know-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


    Should they have just done the referendum on devo-max?

    How could they?

    Salmond did not win a mandate for DevoMax - he won a mandate for Independence - can you imagine the shrieking (to use their favourite word) from the Nats if it was a Devomax and not independence referendum?

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    antifrank said:

    JackW - an excellent idea and excellently selected seats. I look forward to the first prognostication.

    Thank you.

    The pool of seats available for the UK "JackW Dozen" was of course much larger and indeed took much longer than I had expected, compared to my US Presidential "JackW Dozen" where the 13 swing states were largely self selecting.

    Hopefully I'll edge a little better that the US election where I called 12 correct to within a point or so and only miscalled one - Florida for Romney by 0.5 point against the actual Obama by 0.5 point. It comes to something when you can't rely on the GOP to swing a close election for their man - hanging chads, my arse !!

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    BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    JackW said:

    BobaFett said:

    @JackW

    How flexible is your ARSE? That is, if Labour remain ~4pts ahead in, say, September, will its outpourings change?

    Interested to see your seat forecasts.

    I wonder if Fett's Four will feature - Dewsbury, Northampton N, Hove, Stroud.

    If new evidence and information comes forward then the projection changes accordingly.

    Your four seats all made my long list but failed to make the final cut.

    Fair enough. When will you be publishing your seat forecasts?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Smarmeron said:

    would they prefer Germans?

    That depends

    @Susie_Wolff: Hi liebe deutschen Follower, meine neuste Kolumne bei @focusonline:
    http://t.co/iK4xiTu1Iq http://t.co/okRV5JXZfp
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,346

    Why do people vote UKIP?

    The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.

    Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.

    I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.

    How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.

    Good to see David K posting again. We're fortunate in having several intelligent and open-minded UKIP posters here (David, SeanF, RichardT, isam, maybe others). FWIW my doorstep impression is that the UKIP vote is quite polarised. About half is seriously concerned about immigration and/or the EU. The other half are exactly as David describes. Helmer's problem is that he doesn't quite appeal to either group at a gut level - he's more archetypally conservative than especially anti-immigration, and he's very much a recognisable political type, not a natural choice for the "stuff them all" voters.

    Which segment is more likely to drift back to other parties? The second, I suppose; if they don't vote UKIP they generally won't vote, but some will say "oh, all right then" to their former parties. Any of us who see the UKIP vote as a great reservoir of potential support are kidding themselves, though.
  • Options
    dugarbandierdugarbandier Posts: 2,596



    How could they?

    Salmond did not win a mandate for DevoMax - he won a mandate for Independence - can you imagine the shrieking (to use their favourite word) from the Nats if it was a Devomax and not independence referendum?

    But the decision to accept any referendum decision was Westminster's wasn't it? So presumably Westminster could have mandated a referendum on devomax (they could have made it UK wide too)

    (Please imagine some kind of "lighthearted" font here- I'm not being entirely serious)

    This Strathclyde business does look like replaciong the West Lothian questions with a few hundred other questions tho...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Mr. Smarmeron, Germans, of course. If a team's next to Mercedes (near certain to win the title) it'd mean they came second. If they're next to a new team it'd mean they came last, I think.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Vale of Glamorgan - Con - 4,276 - Lab

    Vale of Glamorgan is number 64 on Labour's target list. Given a few gains from the Lib Dems further down their target list it pretty much marks the point at which Labour gain a majority.

    I look forward to your predictions.
    Indeed so.

    It was one of the reasons that it made the cut together with the fact that I wanted a far spread of marginal target seats from the most marginal out to around 4.5k

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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BobaFett said:

    JackW said:

    BobaFett said:

    @JackW

    How flexible is your ARSE? That is, if Labour remain ~4pts ahead in, say, September, will its outpourings change?

    Interested to see your seat forecasts.

    I wonder if Fett's Four will feature - Dewsbury, Northampton N, Hove, Stroud.

    If new evidence and information comes forward then the projection changes accordingly.

    Your four seats all made my long list but failed to make the final cut.

    Fair enough. When will you be publishing your seat forecasts?
    As per my original 9.00am post, next Tuesday.

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,804
    FPT
    john_zims said:

    @CarlottaVance

    'The killer stat, when it comes to London, is that just 0.6% of all housing transactions funded by mortgages involved a Help to Buy government guarantee'

    Yes, a whopping 5% of all the help to buy mortgages were in London compared with 14% in the North West & 13% in Scotland.

    Who can forget Tim's daily rants about the scheme causing a property bubble in London and the massive uptake for the maximum £600,000 mortgages which total 31 of the 7,313 transactions.

    On a point of comparability: the scheme was completely different in Scotland - I forget the details but IIRC it was much less open to BTL landlords.

  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,761
    edited June 2014


    This Strathclyde business does look like replaciong the West Lothian questions with a few hundred other questions tho...

    As Brogan observes:

    This is the key bit of the Strathclyde model, and what makes it so interesting and potentially transformative. He proposes convening a committee of all the parliaments and assembles of the UK to discuss how the UK is run and how power and responsibilities are allocated. The implication is obvious: it needs to change. Lord Strathclyde knows his constitutional politics. He also knows, after watching the mess the current devolution model has made and the wider state of British politics in an age of popular frustration with its practitioners, that the status quo cannot hold.
This discussion has been closed.