politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why People Voted UKIP
How important was each of the following as a possible reason for your decision to vote UKIP at the European elections on Thursday? (Only those that replied 10/10 are shown – 10 being very important)
While the first two don't come as any shock the third one is interesting because it implies that the current approach of the established parties with digging up quotes isn't going to be particularly effective as it is likely to be a case of "well he probably shouldn't have said that but at least he said what he actually thinks".
Why people voted UKIP is a subset of Why people didn't vote Conservative. Because they are inane. They want to step closer to the chasm of purple darkness which will engulf us all as we crawl on our knees towards our doom.
Whilst these are the top issues, it doesn't really give a clue as to how many people are so motivated by such issues they are unlikely to switch from a UKIP vote. Whilst it is always interesting to see why people vote the way they do it doesn't necessarily mean we can divine much.
That Labour number is a surprise - I'd have guessed the position with Con reversed and the gap bigger! I wonder how many of these are the Lab vote 2010 stay at home crowd?
Today's YouGov (Lab +6) reminds us of what a fearful world UKIP voters live in:
VI: UKIP (Con)
Not have enough money to live comfortably: 61 (41) Be victim of burglary, robbery or mugging: 49 (24) Suffer directly from public service spending cuts: 71 (38) Lose out to foreign factories/workers: 68 (37) Lose job: 61 (40) Lose home: 50 (21) Suffer discrimination from local councils/employers: 50 (19) Suffer ill-health: 58 (38)
You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:
An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.
Business for New Europe (BNE), which includes the chairmen of BAE Systems, RBS, BT Group, ScottishPower and the London Stock Exchange among its advisory board, said Scotland would face a “long and winding road” back into the EU.
You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:
It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.
And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:
It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.
And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
Are you that patronising and arrogant in real life?
An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.
In line with the views of European voters - that Scotland would join the EU, but would have to apply in the usual manner (article 49) not the Salmond accelerated article 48 manner:
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:
It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.
And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
Are you that patronising and arrogant in real life?
Well, it's the truth, isn't it? (At least, you don't argue that it isn't: "no case - abuse plaintiff's attorney" as someone once said...)
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
The Adam Smith Professor of Political Economy at Glasgow University spots the flaw in the Nats "independence dividend" - it's based on faster productivity growth than rUK. Yet the sterling zone they also want is predicated on having similar productivity growth to rUK.....
I didn't realise Syria was pretending to have a proper election today. Do they genuinely think anyone will believe the result or conclude it was fair when half the country is in ruins or being fought over and large numbers of Syrians are refugees in foreign lands?
An independent Scotland faces at least three years outside the European Union and it will be "next to impossible" to rejoin on the UK's current terms, a group of the country’s most eminent business leaders warned today.
Business for New Europe (BNE), which includes the chairmen of BAE Systems, RBS, BT Group, ScottishPower and the London Stock Exchange among its advisory board, said Scotland would face a “long and winding road” back into the EU.
If any PBers are in Newark today, I will be outside the Ladbrokes on Market Place from about 9.30am. Most likely next toa chalkboard with some odds scrawled on it.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
You're obviously not a Kipper, but using your method of stereotyping .... and assuming you're a voter, you're either a baby-eater, a communist traitor, or a sandal-wearing hippy who disapproves of other people stereotyping.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
You can win them back on policy grounds if you have policies for them, Cameron doesn't. He has now left it too late running in to the GE to offer anything credible.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
Remarkably few will be tempted back imho, why should they be? Little will change policy wise in the foreseeable future, at least not enough that will tempt them. – Anger and frustration are the motivating forces at play here and it will take more than a metaphorical aspirin to appease.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
If it was blank canvas, Miliband would be at 70% in the polls. He has fewer policies than the kippers.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.
Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.
I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.
How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?
The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?
Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!
Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?
The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?
Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....
The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.
Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.
I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.
How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.
I thought the Nats were supposed to be on a high today after the BRILLIANT poll yesterday?
The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?
Bring back the Nats. I disagree with them but at least they have an opinion of their own rather than posting endless streams of other people's drivel.....
Leave Avery out of this.
I'm having a bad week and barely slept last night because things are so bad at work.
Thanks for cheering up a stressed, tired man Alan.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Isn't this the Indyref equivalent of some Tory posters' belief that their party is so self-evidently correct that the only reasons people vote Labour are insanity or bribery by Gordon Brown's client state ?
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!
Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
Well UKIP are policy light in a sense. Frankly their magic wand of EU withdrawal isn't a panacea and absent that, what? I think it's more a case that you can project onto a blank canvass.
If it was blank canvas, Miliband would be at 70% in the polls. He has fewer policies than the kippers.
No because Labour has history, a record of past performance to temper the lack of detail. So they pick up a few "this time it will be differents" and those for whom voting is still a binary choice but not much more. Add to that the flavour that Miliband is adding to Labour and most people think they can divine the outline of his approach. UKIP is different, no record, no ideological ballast, no policies, just a vague notion that "they tell it like it is". When you actually stop and ask a voter what a UKIP spokesperson or Farage has actually said that appeals, it's blank faces all round. There's a lot of projection, and Farage and UKIP may find that when they show their hand some people may balk.
Looking at that list, there are basically three major reasons only:
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
You can win them back on policy grounds if you have policies for them, Cameron doesn't. He has now left it too late running in to the GE to offer anything credible.
What policies?
It's tough to make a philosophical ansŵer why brexit without a referendum is better than an in-out vote. Referendum now vs 2017 isn't that fundamental a point - more one of tactics. If you don't think Cameron will keep his promise the your beef isn't with the EU really. - it's with Cameron.
on immigration - yes things. Should be tightened, but without leaving the EU it's tough to take tha strong a positîon.
You're obviously not a Kipper, but using your method of stereotyping .... and assuming you're a voter, you're either a baby-eater, a communist traitor, or a sandal-wearing hippy who disapproves of other people stereotyping.
If Scotland votes No it'll be interesting to see how the most ardent Yes supporters respond.
I also see that an unelected foreign bureaucrat has called on us to raise taxes. Given our recovery is much better than most of Europe's (all of Europe's?) perhaps he should be offering advice to France instead.
Salmond.......clearly knows that his best hope is to create a feel-good factor, by optimistically reaching out to the unconvinced and persuading them that an independent Scotland would be a reasonable place run by moderate people. Boycotts, demonstrations and shouting at people take the nationalists back decades to the time when the SNP was a minority sect run largely for the entertainment of a small band of activists.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
100 years of misgovernment by the Lab/Lib/Con. 75 years of mismanaging Britain's decline by the Lab/Lib/Con. 40 years of surrender to the EU by the Lab/Lib/Con.
There'll be the Grumpy Index, whether the No is taken in good heart or with lots of grumbling, and whether Salmond copies the EU vileness of trying to ask the question again as soon as possible, ignoring the will of the people.
Unlike the EU, however, Salmond's party could win a majority again, which could be considered the nod from the people for Poll 2: Poll Harder. However, if he doesn't rule out a second referendum that could put off voters who quite like the SNP as a party of government but don't want years more of referendum and debate about separation.
These are of varying degrees of interest, not necessarily related to the percentages against them. Those naming "David Cameron" and "gay marriage" are pretty surely disaffected Conservatives. Those naming "Nigel Farage" are cultists.
The really interesting one is "UKIP say what they think". I'd have thought that's a pretty obvious avenue of attack for other parties. It's hardly as if there aren't examples of UKIP being all things to all men (women, not so much).
Looking at some of the MSM reports today about the Trojan Horse issue, anyone would think that there was a time jump between 1997 and 2010! I find it amazing that a letter written during the dying gasps of Major's administration can now be held up a Tory mismanagement. What about the intervening 'lost decade' of uncontrolled immigration and carte blanche approach to ethnic issues.
Talk about double speak, expunge all record of the Labour mismanagement and perhaps the electorate will forget. Orwellianism at its worst.
Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.
Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.
It was on Sky this morning. An old wrinkly was interviewed and pulled out a dog eared copy of a letter he sent to Chris Patten (SoS Education) about radical Muslim infiltration of a Birmingham school (Golden Hill?)
Looking at some of the MSM reports today about the Trojan Horse issue, anyone would think that there was a time jump between 1997 and 2010! I find it amazing that a letter written during the dying gasps of Major's administration can now be held up a Tory mismanagement. What about the intervening 'lost decade' of uncontrolled immigration and carte blanche approach to ethnic issues.
Talk about double speak, expunge all record of the Labour mismanagement and perhaps the electorate will forget. Orwellianism at its worst.
Orwell didn't name Big Brother's ideology Ingsoc without motive.
Mr. Rog, could you elaborate a bit? That does sound like blatant spinning, and attempting to shift prime responsibility from Blair (and Brown) to Major.
Being sulky and alienated and lashing out at its elders? UKIP is no longer a child, it is a teenager.
Where as the Lib Dems have remained as petulant 3 year olds, thinking the world should be all pink and fluffy with all nastiness removed at the wave of a magic wand and then stamping their little feet and sulking when it doesn't work that way.
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen" - 13 seats that will determine the nature of the contest.
The 13 seats are a geographically and political spread of various target and marginal seats - 3 seats from the joint London and the South region, 3 from the East including a Ukip target, 2 each from the North and Midlands and 1 seat each from the West country, Wales and Scotland.
From Tuesday 10th June the regular ARSE 2015 national projection will be joined by the "JackW Dozen" and will be called as follows :
TCTC - Too Close To Call - Under 500 votes. LIKELY HOLD/GAIN - 500 - 2500 votes. HOLD/GAIN - Over 2500 votes.
The "JackW Dozen" with the 2010 winner, majority and second placed party are :
Bury North - Con - 2,243 - Lab Pudsey - Con - 1,659 - Lab Broxtowe - Con - 389 - Lab Warwickshire North - Con - 54 - Lab Cambridge - LibDem - 6792 - Con - 3 way marginal. Ipswich - Con - 2,079 - Lab Watford - Con - 1,425 - LibDem - 3 way marginal. Croydon Central - Con - 2,879 - Lab Enfield North - Con - 1,692 - Lab Cornwall North - LibDem - 2,981- Con Vale of Glamorgan - Con - 4,276 - Lab Ochil & South Perthshire - Lab - 5,187 - SNP Great Yarmouth - Con - 4,276 - Lab - Ukip target
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!
Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:
Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'
Unionists: 'Where from?'
Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'
As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:
Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'
Unionists: 'Where from?'
Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'
Did I miss anything?
Favourite from the Telegraph comments
yoyoegg Wee Eck has taken advice from constitutional expert Professor Yaffle.
You can never our-UKIP UKIP. And more to the point it, seeking to do so could get you into trouble with the majority of the electorate which has a negative view of the party:
It's worth repeating Kellner's point that UKIP "won" the Euro-election with 9% of the electorate. Treating low turnout elections the same as General Elections is surely unwise, however tempting to party activists of all colours.
That's just silly. UKIP won more votes than Labour, Conservatives, and LDs. People who chose not to vote did not have a say.
@MorrisDancer - Mr. StClare, Scotland as a whole, you bounder.
I’m sure the good folk of Scotlandshire will take a NO vote in good spirit. – Although personally, I will not be venturing forth beyond Berwick-on-tweed, just in case they don’t.
Vale of Glamorgan is number 64 on Labour's target list. Given a few gains from the Lib Dems further down their target list it pretty much marks the point at which Labour gain a majority.
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Alan, No decent debate on here, the cretins like Scott, Carlotta , Monica , Watcher and a few new nonentities see to that. I used to enjoy a decent discussion but pointless nowadays. I will be following the other evacuees shortly by the look of things. Whinging servile crawling Scots are not for me.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
I'm sure the unionists would welcome a Nat poster who rises above incessant personal abuse - no wonder their support among women is in the toilet!
Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:
Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'
Unionists: 'Where from?'
Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'
It seems Scotland's destined for devo-max, as it's called, whether they want it or not. Unless England finally gets some sort of equality in the realm of devolution they might as well divide the union now.
The Nats' failure to attract the female vote remains striking if unsurprising, 32% Yes against 68% No.
And the Nat posters we see on here are such charmers too......
Sorry CV but we're running light on Nat posters on PB since we lost JK, MP and TuD is less frequent. Malc does a Sterling Job ( or should that be groat ? ) with help from Mr Carnryx but recently our hot Indy action has been like a limp lettuce.
Keep up the good wotk malc ;-)
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
.
Well maybe CV, while the Indy debate is more claymore to the front of the skull than intellectual fencing the fact remains we've lost focus on the issues. maybe I'm wrong and it's the whole 3 years of endless twaddle that's at fault, but on the last leg of the race we're not really discussing much.
As we've seen with hardening voter opinion, I suspect 3 years has taken its toll. Its all so predictable:
Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'
Unionists: 'Where from?'
Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'
Should they have just done the referendum on devo-max?
How could they?
Salmond did not win a mandate for DevoMax - he won a mandate for Independence - can you imagine the shrieking (to use their favourite word) from the Nats if it was a Devomax and not independence referendum?
JackW - an excellent idea and excellently selected seats. I look forward to the first prognostication.
Thank you.
The pool of seats available for the UK "JackW Dozen" was of course much larger and indeed took much longer than I had expected, compared to my US Presidential "JackW Dozen" where the 13 swing states were largely self selecting.
Hopefully I'll edge a little better that the US election where I called 12 correct to within a point or so and only miscalled one - Florida for Romney by 0.5 point against the actual Obama by 0.5 point. It comes to something when you can't rely on the GOP to swing a close election for their man - hanging chads, my arse !!
The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.
Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.
I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.
How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.
Good to see David K posting again. We're fortunate in having several intelligent and open-minded UKIP posters here (David, SeanF, RichardT, isam, maybe others). FWIW my doorstep impression is that the UKIP vote is quite polarised. About half is seriously concerned about immigration and/or the EU. The other half are exactly as David describes. Helmer's problem is that he doesn't quite appeal to either group at a gut level - he's more archetypally conservative than especially anti-immigration, and he's very much a recognisable political type, not a natural choice for the "stuff them all" voters.
Which segment is more likely to drift back to other parties? The second, I suppose; if they don't vote UKIP they generally won't vote, but some will say "oh, all right then" to their former parties. Any of us who see the UKIP vote as a great reservoir of potential support are kidding themselves, though.
Salmond did not win a mandate for DevoMax - he won a mandate for Independence - can you imagine the shrieking (to use their favourite word) from the Nats if it was a Devomax and not independence referendum?
But the decision to accept any referendum decision was Westminster's wasn't it? So presumably Westminster could have mandated a referendum on devomax (they could have made it UK wide too)
(Please imagine some kind of "lighthearted" font here- I'm not being entirely serious)
This Strathclyde business does look like replaciong the West Lothian questions with a few hundred other questions tho...
Mr. Smarmeron, Germans, of course. If a team's next to Mercedes (near certain to win the title) it'd mean they came second. If they're next to a new team it'd mean they came last, I think.
Vale of Glamorgan is number 64 on Labour's target list. Given a few gains from the Lib Dems further down their target list it pretty much marks the point at which Labour gain a majority.
I look forward to your predictions.
Indeed so.
It was one of the reasons that it made the cut together with the fact that I wanted a far spread of marginal target seats from the most marginal out to around 4.5k
'The killer stat, when it comes to London, is that just 0.6% of all housing transactions funded by mortgages involved a Help to Buy government guarantee'
Yes, a whopping 5% of all the help to buy mortgages were in London compared with 14% in the North West & 13% in Scotland.
Who can forget Tim's daily rants about the scheme causing a property bubble in London and the massive uptake for the maximum £600,000 mortgages which total 31 of the 7,313 transactions.
On a point of comparability: the scheme was completely different in Scotland - I forget the details but IIRC it was much less open to BTL landlords.
This Strathclyde business does look like replaciong the West Lothian questions with a few hundred other questions tho...
As Brogan observes:
This is the key bit of the Strathclyde model, and what makes it so interesting and potentially transformative. He proposes convening a committee of all the parliaments and assembles of the UK to discuss how the UK is run and how power and responsibilities are allocated. The implication is obvious: it needs to change. Lord Strathclyde knows his constitutional politics. He also knows, after watching the mess the current devolution model has made and the wider state of British politics in an age of popular frustration with its practitioners, that the status quo cannot hold.
Comments
is a subset of
Why people didn't vote Conservative.
Because they are inane. They want to step closer to the chasm of purple darkness which will engulf us all as we crawl on our knees towards our doom.
3 hours.
VI: UKIP (Con)
Not have enough money to live comfortably: 61 (41)
Be victim of burglary, robbery or mugging: 49 (24)
Suffer directly from public service spending cuts: 71 (38)
Lose out to foreign factories/workers: 68 (37)
Lose job: 61 (40)
Lose home: 50 (21)
Suffer discrimination from local councils/employers: 50 (19)
Suffer ill-health: 58 (38)
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/ind922q389/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-020614.pdf
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100274383/the-scottish-nationalists-are-losing-it/
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/02/five-myths-ukip-conservatives-farage-newark
And that probably is the most fearful part of the electorate - if only because survival in the 21st century demands an education (and indeed a level of self-esteem) they haven't got.
And yet the Nats on here are unfailingly polite and models of charm and decorum.....
I see the handful of posters on thewebsitethatcannotbenamed are impotently lurking here then venting their frustration......bless.....
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/fh13w2r2ie/FULL_April_May_Eurotrack_Results_Website.pdf
Three weeks before they had UKIP on 38% with CON on 18%. On the day the gap between the two parties was 3.6%.
The ComRes final poll came bottom in terms of accuracy.
@Sun_Politics: 'Labour will never return to Downing Street as long as Ed is their leader' http://t.co/qW4AX878Kw
UK/France/Germany - net agree:
Most crimes committed by immigrants: -26 / -4 / -7
Govt should persuade immigrants to go home: -17 / -3 / -7
Politicians personally corrupt: +10 / +43 / +11
90 minutes 90 seconds
Immigration, EU, and a sense of being left behind/ignore/alienated by society/the main parties.
I'm not sure how many of these voters it will be easy to win back on policy grounds
http://ronaldmacdonaldblog.tumblr.com/post/87595725921/currency-crisis-costs-for-an-independent-scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27675343
More like the country's most self seeking arse licking greedy cretins whined today,
posted by the sites biggest whiner.
Oh, wait...
The YeSNP were tweeting about it madly last night. Was it not good news still being, um, not in the lead?
You're obviously not a Kipper, but using your method of stereotyping .... and assuming you're a voter, you're either a baby-eater, a communist traitor, or a sandal-wearing hippy who disapproves of other people stereotyping.
He has now left it too late running in to the GE to offer anything credible.
1 - Does anyone offer spread betting on politics these days?
2 - Is there an up to date starting guide anywhere? Obviously I have the book.
Thanks
The biggest reason is the sense that nobody represents them any more---they feel either ignored, or taken for granted. They'll give specifics, like immigration, if pushed, but that is not their starting point.
Our voters hear their favourite football manager 'take poisitives' when they have just lost 5-1. They expect he will 'learn lessons from the experience'. When they hear politicians parrotting this drivel, they recogonise it for the bullshit it actually is.
I respect our supporters sense of frustration with, and alienation from, the other parties. They have little interest in any of UKIP's policies on our main concerns, let alone on other issues.
How far can being on the right side of the zeitgeist take us? None of us has a clue. But, and for the first time ever, we are enjoying the trip.
But yes the ebb and flow of the Indyref has fizzled of late and the debates have become too one-sided. If it keeps on like this I'll jump to your side of the fence until the 18th. :-)
Carnyx and TUD do engage in argument - most of the other Nats labour under the delusion that abusing other posters make their targets' and not themselves, look bad.......but we can observe their self pity from a safe distance in other places....
The Conservative 2010 split showed the lowest Cons retention for 2014 at 69% and the highest UKIP desertion at 23%.
Also the LD split showed the highest desertion to UKIP at 15%.
I'm having a bad week and barely slept last night because things are so bad at work.
Thanks for cheering up a stressed, tired man Alan.
It's tough to make a philosophical ansŵer why brexit without a referendum is better than an in-out vote. Referendum now vs 2017 isn't that fundamental a point - more one of tactics. If you don't think Cameron will keep his promise the your beef isn't with the EU really. - it's with Cameron.
on immigration - yes things. Should be tightened, but without leaving the EU it's tough to take tha strong a positîon.
If Scotland votes No it'll be interesting to see how the most ardent Yes supporters respond.
I also see that an unelected foreign bureaucrat has called on us to raise taxes. Given our recovery is much better than most of Europe's (all of Europe's?) perhaps he should be offering advice to France instead.
"Their leader is someone like me."
"The other parties are all the same."
"We need a new kind of politics."
In 2015, UKIP will sweep up a lot of these votes. (Just as Bepe Grillo's 5 Stars has picked up a lot of these votes in Italy.)
100 years of misgovernment by the Lab/Lib/Con.
75 years of mismanaging Britain's decline by the Lab/Lib/Con.
40 years of surrender to the EU by the Lab/Lib/Con.
New Thread please!
There'll be the Grumpy Index, whether the No is taken in good heart or with lots of grumbling, and whether Salmond copies the EU vileness of trying to ask the question again as soon as possible, ignoring the will of the people.
Unlike the EU, however, Salmond's party could win a majority again, which could be considered the nod from the people for Poll 2: Poll Harder. However, if he doesn't rule out a second referendum that could put off voters who quite like the SNP as a party of government but don't want years more of referendum and debate about separation.
The really interesting one is "UKIP say what they think". I'd have thought that's a pretty obvious avenue of attack for other parties. It's hardly as if there aren't examples of UKIP being all things to all men (women, not so much).
20 minutes
Talk about double speak, expunge all record of the Labour mismanagement and perhaps the electorate will forget. Orwellianism at its worst.
http://news.sky.com/story/1274139/muslim-school-plot-fears-were-raised-in-1994
Mr. L, Uruguay's undoubted victory will probably not make a difference. I suspect England not winning the World Cup has been anticipated by everyone.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100274424/the-end-of-the-united-kingdom-as-we-know-it/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the launch of the ARSE 2015 General Election "JackW Dozen" - 13 seats that will determine the nature of the contest.
The 13 seats are a geographically and political spread of various target and marginal seats - 3 seats from the joint London and the South region, 3 from the East including a Ukip target, 2 each from the North and Midlands and 1 seat each from the West country, Wales and Scotland.
From Tuesday 10th June the regular ARSE 2015 national projection will be joined by the "JackW Dozen" and will be called as follows :
TCTC - Too Close To Call - Under 500 votes.
LIKELY HOLD/GAIN - 500 - 2500 votes.
HOLD/GAIN - Over 2500 votes.
The "JackW Dozen" with the 2010 winner, majority and second placed party are :
Bury North - Con - 2,243 - Lab
Pudsey - Con - 1,659 - Lab
Broxtowe - Con - 389 - Lab
Warwickshire North - Con - 54 - Lab
Cambridge - LibDem - 6792 - Con - 3 way marginal.
Ipswich - Con - 2,079 - Lab
Watford - Con - 1,425 - LibDem - 3 way marginal.
Croydon Central - Con - 2,879 - Lab
Enfield North - Con - 1,692 - Lab
Cornwall North - LibDem - 2,981- Con
Vale of Glamorgan - Con - 4,276 - Lab
Ochil & South Perthshire - Lab - 5,187 - SNP
Great Yarmouth - Con - 4,276 - Lab - Ukip target
......................................................................................
WIND - Whimsical Independent News Division
JNN - Jacobite News Network
ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors
Nats: 'Free Unicorns for Everyone!'
Unionists: 'Where from?'
Nats: 'We've heard it all before, no true Scot, too wee, too poor, too thick, what you don't understand is, the campaign hasn't started yet, its all about GOTV'
Did I miss anything?
How flexible is your ARSE? That is, if Labour remain ~4pts ahead in, say, September, will its outpourings change?
Interested to see your seat forecasts.
I wonder if Fett's Four will feature - Dewsbury, Northampton N, Hove, Stroud.
yoyoegg
Wee Eck has taken advice from constitutional expert Professor Yaffle.
Your four seats all made my long list but failed to make the final cut.
I’m sure the good folk of Scotlandshire will take a NO vote in good spirit. – Although personally, I will not be venturing forth beyond Berwick-on-tweed, just in case they don’t.
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/forza-rossa-gets-an-entry/
That's good news, with Caterham up for sale and potentially out of the sport it's good the field won't (probably) be down to 20 or even fewer cars.
I look forward to your predictions.
Should they have just done the referendum on devo-max?
It seems Scotland's destined for devo-max, as it's called, whether they want it or not. Unless England finally gets some sort of equality in the realm of devolution they might as well divide the union now.
The Nats have been whining about that on Twitter too.
It's essential that the referendum delivers a definitive Yes or No to separation.
If it's No to separation, the state of devolution is open for debate.
If it's Yes to separation, devolution is extinct.
" Romanian Forza Rossa team could join in 2016"
Will their neighbours in the next garage be comfortable with a bunch of Romanians moving next door, or would they prefer Germans?
Salmond did not win a mandate for DevoMax - he won a mandate for Independence - can you imagine the shrieking (to use their favourite word) from the Nats if it was a Devomax and not independence referendum?
The pool of seats available for the UK "JackW Dozen" was of course much larger and indeed took much longer than I had expected, compared to my US Presidential "JackW Dozen" where the 13 swing states were largely self selecting.
Hopefully I'll edge a little better that the US election where I called 12 correct to within a point or so and only miscalled one - Florida for Romney by 0.5 point against the actual Obama by 0.5 point. It comes to something when you can't rely on the GOP to swing a close election for their man - hanging chads, my arse !!
@Susie_Wolff: Hi liebe deutschen Follower, meine neuste Kolumne bei @focusonline:
http://t.co/iK4xiTu1Iq http://t.co/okRV5JXZfp
Which segment is more likely to drift back to other parties? The second, I suppose; if they don't vote UKIP they generally won't vote, but some will say "oh, all right then" to their former parties. Any of us who see the UKIP vote as a great reservoir of potential support are kidding themselves, though.
(Please imagine some kind of "lighthearted" font here- I'm not being entirely serious)
This Strathclyde business does look like replaciong the West Lothian questions with a few hundred other questions tho...
It was one of the reasons that it made the cut together with the fact that I wanted a far spread of marginal target seats from the most marginal out to around 4.5k
This is the key bit of the Strathclyde model, and what makes it so interesting and potentially transformative. He proposes convening a committee of all the parliaments and assembles of the UK to discuss how the UK is run and how power and responsibilities are allocated. The implication is obvious: it needs to change. Lord Strathclyde knows his constitutional politics. He also knows, after watching the mess the current devolution model has made and the wider state of British politics in an age of popular frustration with its practitioners, that the status quo cannot hold.