malcolmg - I fail to see how an independent Scotland could charge different fees to students from rUK or the rest of the EU (if Scotland stays in). Either they'd have to introduce fees for all or have it free for all.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
IIRC Hague also left a couple of gags out of the speech, but mentioned them on another program. One was about GB having to peck Cherie on the cheek and can't recall the other
Talking of polling it is now more than 2 weeks since the last Scottish Indy poll. Is that not bizarre? I realise that most Scottish media are on their uppers but surely someone is interested?
It is strange that the start of the official campaign was allowed to come and go without a poll. I would be interested if anyone has heard any rumours of one coming up.
"Head Like A Hole by Nine Inch Nails sounds even better when it is preceded by World of Our Own by Westlife."
I have no idea what that means, but it sounds dreadful so I am rather glad of my ignorance.
Head Like A Hole is one of the finest tracks of all time, from one of the finest albums of all time.
Here's the video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao-Sahfy7Hg
Westlife's World of Our Own is the antonym of Head Like A Hole
Judge for yourself
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jal-vzO8bVE
Mr. Eagles, out of politeness I will say thank you for shedding light onto the darkness of my ignorance, but, frankly, I wish you hadn't bothered. It is a terrible thing to say but I was much happier in my ignorance.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Staged or parliamentary debates are places where Ed looks, relatively, at home and natural. On a good day, even accomplished.
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
Talking of polling it is now more than 2 weeks since the last Scottish Indy poll. Is that not bizarre? I realise that most Scottish media are on their uppers but surely someone is interested?
It is strange that the start of the official campaign was allowed to come and go without a poll. I would be interested if anyone has heard any rumours of one coming up.
Probably it's because the result is now a foregone conclusion.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Staged or parliamentary debates are places where Ed looks, relatively, at home and natural. On a good day, even accomplished.
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
You are right that people in the £30k-£60k would be the most negatively affected by the UKIP tax changes.
How many people on higher incomes do not use accountants to maximise their allowances and minimise their tax bill? Damn, few I bet. I know I did and even in retirement still do. The effect of removing such allowances should not be underestimated and will I think produce a different picture.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
You are right that people in the £30k-£60k would be the most negatively affected by the UKIP tax changes.
How many people on higher incomes do not use accountants to maximise their allowances and minimise their tax bill? Damn, few I bet. I know I did and even in retirement still do. The effect of removing such allowances should not be underestimated and will I think produce a different picture.
Isn't the distinction there between PAYE and everyone else rather than higher/basic ?
Is he just waiting to be persuaded? With a hat tip to the writers of Yes Minister
While he does not seek the office, he has pledged himself to the service of his continent, and that should his colleagues persuade him that that is the best way he can serve, he might reluctantly have to accept the responsibility, whatever his personal wishes might be.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Staged or parliamentary debates are places where Ed looks, relatively, at home and natural. On a good day, even accomplished.
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
Erm his budget response was widely derided.
It's no good comparing that to a Leaders Debate though, as he would be far better prepared and much less likely to be taken by surprise. The criticism of his budget response revolved more around the content and politics, than the "Weird Ed" meme. The crux of my point is that "Ed comes across weird on TV, so the Tories should give him as much debating time on screen as possible" is flawed, since that's one (artificial and controlled) environment in which he is likely comes across reasonably well.
More people are going to see highlights and snippets of the debates than the full things, and in such packages (e.g. of PMQs) Ed often comes across better than he is rated by the commentariat who got the full exposure.
Is he just waiting to be persuaded? With a hat tip to the writers of Yes Minister
While he does not seek the office, he has pledged himself to the service of his continent, and that should his colleagues persuade him that that is the best way he can serve, he might reluctantly have to accept the responsibility, whatever his personal wishes might be.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Staged or parliamentary debates are places where Ed looks, relatively, at home and natural. On a good day, even accomplished.
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
Erm his budget response was widely derided.
It's no good comparing that to a Leaders Debate though, as he would be far better prepared and much less likely to be taken by surprise. The criticism of his budget response revolved more around the content and politics, than the "Weird Ed" meme. The crux of my point is that "Ed comes across weird on TV, so the Tories should give him as much debating time on screen as possible" is flawed, since that's one (artificial and controlled) environment in which he is likely comes across reasonably well.
More people are going to see highlights and snippets of the debates than the full things, and in such packages (e.g. of PMQs) Ed often comes across better than he is rated by the commentariat who got the full exposure.
malcolmg - I fail to see how an independent Scotland could charge different fees to students from rUK or the rest of the EU (if Scotland stays in). Either they'd have to introduce fees for all or have it free for all.
Frank, Not sure myself but still of little consequence to the vote overall. Must be some way I am sure but if not I would rather have independence and English students getting free education than being shackled to Westminster and not having democracy.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
If you think Hague is brilliant , I hope never to have the misfortune to have to spend a night in the pub with you , guaranteed to be bored to death. You need to get out more.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
You are right that people in the £30k-£60k would be the most negatively affected by the UKIP tax changes.
How many people on higher incomes do not use accountants to maximise their allowances and minimise their tax bill? Damn, few I bet. I know I did and even in retirement still do. The effect of removing such allowances should not be underestimated and will I think produce a different picture.
Isn't the distinction there between PAYE and everyone else rather than higher/basic ?
Not really, Mr. Star. Until 2006 I had a PAYE job which was enough on its own to keep me in the higher tax bracket. I also had earnings outside that job. My accountant earned his pay many times over by perfectly legally and without using any aggressive or otherwise dodgy ploys to keep my tax bill down to what I was obliged to pay.
Leave aside outside earnings, anyone on 40% income tax is going to be doing self-assessment and if they are not employing someone to help them they are daft.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
That's for employees and includes Employee's (but not Employer's) NI, right? For pensioners who have some taxable income it is much worse, given that at the moment their marginal tax rate is 20% but would increase to 33% (albeit offset by an increased personal allowance).
The bottom line is that there is no way of squaring the circle. If you make the system more honest and simpler by merging NI and Income Tax into a flat rate whilst raising the tax threshold, you hit many pensioners and middle earners, and those who benefit are the lowish paid (who benefit from the rise in allowances) and the very highly paid (who benefit from the lower top-end marginal tax rate)..
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
If you think Hague is brilliant , I hope never to have the misfortune to have to spend a night in the pub with you , guaranteed to be bored to death. You need to get out more.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
If you think Hague is brilliant , I hope never to have the misfortune to have to spend a night in the pub with you , guaranteed to be bored to death. You need to get out more.
Finally had chance to read the last thread - it is based on one of Fat Steve's obsessions and, quite frankly, what 'evidence' there is is very thin at best.
A number of times Ed has been on telly and seen the poll rating rise. We think of the conference speech, and I have noted other examples more recently on here.
What Labour has had more recently is a messaging problem. This is probably behind their erratic polling.
It may get Tory posters through the night to believe that Ed's mere arrival on our screens depresses the Labour poll share. But Central Office thinks differently, famously warning that the "more people see of Ed the more they like him".
Were Ed such a liability why is Dave avoiding the debates?
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Staged or parliamentary debates are places where Ed looks, relatively, at home and natural. On a good day, even accomplished.
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
Erm his budget response was widely derided.
It's no good comparing that to a Leaders Debate though, as he would be far better prepared and much less likely to be taken by surprise. The criticism of his budget response revolved more around the content and politics, than the "Weird Ed" meme. The crux of my point is that "Ed comes across weird on TV, so the Tories should give him as much debating time on screen as possible" is flawed, since that's one (artificial and controlled) environment in which he is likely comes across reasonably well.
More people are going to see highlights and snippets of the debates than the full things, and in such packages (e.g. of PMQs) Ed often comes across better than he is rated by the commentariat who got the full exposure.
He very often "beats" Dave at PMQs however, not that it matters because nobody watches it bar us nerds, nearly all of whom have already made their mind up about how to vote.
I expect railway renationalisation to be on the UKIP agenda as well.
The scrapping of NI from the last manifesto seems to be a favourite on here this morning.. it was that part of UKIPs old tax policy that lefties ignored when they bang on about the flat tax hurting the lowest paid. It was a flat tax of 31% with no NI and the first £11,500 tax free
Which, by the way, I think is an excellent policy. Of course, in light of inflation, etc., you would probably want to move the tax free allowance up to £15k. I would also suspect you'd need to be at 33% on all above that level.
In this way you massively reduce the cost of tax collection, you also reduce the scope for tax evasion, and attract some tax exiles.
It would hit the middle class pretty hard. Given there is a diminishing marginal return in the utility of money, I think a progressive income tax of at least two bands is better for the country as a whole.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
You are right that people in the £30k-£60k would be the most negatively affected by the UKIP tax changes.
How many people on higher incomes do not use accountants to maximise their allowances and minimise their tax bill? Damn, few I bet. I know I did and even in retirement still do. The effect of removing such allowances should not be underestimated and will I think produce a different picture.
Isn't the distinction there between PAYE and everyone else rather than higher/basic ?
Leave aside outside earnings, anyone on 40% income tax is going to be doing self-assessment and if they are not employing someone to help them they are daft.
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
In fairness Fitalass you are hardly a neutral judge.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
malcolmg - I fail to see how an independent Scotland could charge different fees to students from rUK or the rest of the EU (if Scotland stays in). Either they'd have to introduce fees for all or have it free for all.
Frank, Not sure myself but still of little consequence to the vote overall. Must be some way I am sure but if not I would rather have independence and English students getting free education than being shackled to Westminster and not having democracy.
There has been a lot of legal tit-for-tat about this, by people far more knowledgeable than myself. The SNP claim is that they will be able to claim special circumstances, e.g. due to their proximity to England. But the Commission usually requires any special circumstances invoked to justify discrimination to be Very Special Indeed. My gut instinct is that the SNP are being over-optimistic on this one, but gut instinct is all that boils down to.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
If you think Hague is brilliant , I hope never to have the misfortune to have to spend a night in the pub with you , guaranteed to be bored to death. You need to get out more.
Cheer up, Malcolm. You're becoming a bore.
I am happy that I will never reach your level of boring, so extremely happy. You and sunny jim would make a nice pair of wally dugs, you could clear a room in no time.
Yes - Betfair back up to 4.5 for UKIP = 3.3/1 net in old money. As my old boss used to say .... "Peter, there's no such thing as a secret, somebody always knows and somebody always tells."
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
In fairness Fitalass you are hardly a neutral judge.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
Bob , "totally deluded" is what you are looking for
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
In fairness Fitalass you are hardly a neutral judge.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
We have polling evidence that shows Ed is the worst Leader of Opposition since Michael Foot
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
Mr. Eagles, seen it before, but that speech is rather super.
Mr. G, Scots going to English universities are treated the same as English students. Scottish, French, German students going to a Scottish university do not have to pay, English students do. The two situations are utterly incomparable, except to draw a stark contrast between two completely different scenarios.
Mr Dancer, Hague is brilliant when Parliamentary occasion allows. His conference speeches are usually pretty fiery, and I expect that this years will be a stonker as it's pre-election.
If you think Hague is brilliant , I hope never to have the misfortune to have to spend a night in the pub with you , guaranteed to be bored to death. You need to get out more.
Malc
You would never go the fourteen rounds.
LOL, that amount of lemonade is too much for anyone.
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
malcolmg - I fail to see how an independent Scotland could charge different fees to students from rUK or the rest of the EU (if Scotland stays in). Either they'd have to introduce fees for all or have it free for all.
Frank, Not sure myself but still of little consequence to the vote overall. Must be some way I am sure but if not I would rather have independence and English students getting free education than being shackled to Westminster and not having democracy.
There has been a lot of legal tit-for-tat about this, by people far more knowledgeable than myself. The SNP claim is that they will be able to claim special circumstances, e.g. due to their proximity to England. But the Commission usually requires any special circumstances invoked to justify discrimination to be Very Special Indeed. My gut instinct is that the SNP are being over-optimistic on this one, but gut instinct is all that boils down to.
MBE, I would tend to agree but who knows , may be some way out as you say. They could charge everyone and reimburse some with another grant perhaps but only up to amount they would pay in their home country.
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
In fairness Fitalass you are hardly a neutral judge.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
We have polling evidence that shows Ed is the worst Leader of Opposition since Michael Foot
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
That's a shame. I'll miss your contributions on here.
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
For sure I will be a foreigner by the time you return , Farage will be wanting me kept out of England.
I disagree. Unlike either Cameron or Clegg as Opposition Leaders in the last pre 2010 GE debates, Ed Miliband won't be a new face of the Labour party. Quite the reverse, he will not only have to defend the record of the last Labour government, but also of course his own role as a Minister in that Government.
Ed Miliband would do fine in a leaders' debate. Most people aren't expecting that. That's one of the reasons why I think it quite likely that they may not happen. By raising the possibility of legal challenge, UKIP are playing into David Cameron's hands.
In fairness Fitalass you are hardly a neutral judge.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
We have polling evidence that shows Ed is the worst Leader of Opposition since Michael Foot
Where is the polling evidence the tories will get 36% or above,new kid on the block ukip might see to that ;-)
Leave aside outside earnings, anyone on 40% income tax is going to be doing self-assessment and if they are not employing someone to help them they are daft.
I pay 40% and am not doing self-assessment. I imagine most people working in the London professional or financial sector are the same.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Greens outpolled the LDs last week.
Dave is being equitable by inviting the Greens and Kippers into the debate.
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
That's a shame. I'll miss your contributions on here.
Oh, I've given most of my views by now. Who knows, in three months off I might come up with some new ones.
Just to put this in context, this is what tax take at various levels is between current and 15k + 33%:
That's for employees and includes Employee's (but not Employer's) NI, right? For pensioners who have some taxable income it is much worse, given that at the moment their marginal tax rate is 20% but would increase to 33% (albeit offset by an increased personal allowance).
The bottom line is that there is no way of squaring the circle. If you make the system more honest and simpler by merging NI and Income Tax into a flat rate whilst raising the tax threshold, you hit many pensioners and middle earners, and those who benefit are the lowish paid (who benefit from the rise in allowances) and the very highly paid (who benefit from the lower top-end marginal tax rate)..
You could always come up with pension allowances, but the middle earners bit is impossible to avoid. I wonder what sort of thresholds UKIP would need for 0%, 20%, 40% to work, if they're going to take the lowest paid out of tax.
Leave aside outside earnings, anyone on 40% income tax is going to be doing self-assessment and if they are not employing someone to help them they are daft.
I pay 40% and am not doing self-assessment. I imagine most people working in the London professional or financial sector are the same.
I pay 40% and have to do SA.
This is thanks to that bungling fool Ozzy and his crackpot child benefit cockup.
The other absurd part of our tax system is that a household where one partner earns £50k and one partner earns £20k pays dramatically more tax than one where both earn £35k. How is that fair?
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Greens outpolled the LDs last week.
Dave is being equitable by inviting the Greens and Kippers into the debate.
In the first past the poll elections on May 22nd UKIP won 3.8% of the seats - the LD 10.4%.
The party retained control of 6 of the 7 councils they hold. UKIP hold no councils and have no MPs.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Greens outpolled the LDs last week.
Dave is being equitable by inviting the Greens and Kippers into the debate.
In the first past the poll elections on May 22nd UKIP won 3.8% of the seats - the LD 10.4%.
The party retained control of 6 of the 7 councils they hold. UKIP hold no councils and have no MPs.
Debate involvement should depend on how far the board is tilted in your favour rather than how many votes you receive ?
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
I know we agree to disagree on the EU but look forward to you returning, especially as you're a fellow Depeche Modi fan
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
I know we agree to disagree on the EU but look forward to you returning, especially as you're a fellow Depeche Modi fan
There will be plenty more who will enjoy the silence.
Just a thought re the Spanish abdication, it is 411 years since the last time an Elizabeth in England faced a Phillip in Spain.
It's 456 years since England since had a Spanish King Phillip as reigning monarch.
Hang on! Wasn't a condition of their marriage that Phillip specifically could not be styled King of England?
No Queen Mary's marriage act entitled him to the titles during his marriage to her. So when she died he stopped being able to use the title King of England.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Ofcom doesn't operate on the vagaries of opinion polls that may change month to month but on past performance of actual votes/MP's in that respective election.
Accordingly and correctly Ukip were given major status for the Euro election but correctly not for the general election where they enjoy no support in the House of Commons.
Essentially actual bums on seats not transitory farts from pollsters.
Just caught up with the previous thread. All about Ed and his problems on television. It does beg the question, if Ed is so useless, weird and unappealing on TV, why is Cameron trying to hide away from tv debates? What sort of election campaign are we going to get? Does he just want to hide behind the Tories' financial advantage and just have a mass advertising campaign? The TV companies need to be bold and threaten to empty chair him.
Cameron's not scared of Miliband. He's scared of Farage.
Labour and Lib Dems would settle for the same debates as last time. Or is Cameron afraid of being seen to exclude Farage? But surely he could then share that responsibility with the others?
If Ofcom allow debates with the Liberal Democrats, but not UKIP, who are ahead of them in the polls, it would be outrageous. I suspect Cameron realises that agreeing to debates means UKIP will inevitably included.
Greens outpolled the LDs last week.
Dave is being equitable by inviting the Greens and Kippers into the debate.
In the first past the poll elections on May 22nd UKIP won 3.8% of the seats - the LD 10.4%.
The party retained control of 6 of the 7 councils they hold. UKIP hold no councils and have no MPs.
Debate involvement should depend on how far the board is tilted in your favour rather than how many votes you receive ?
I suppose it's consistent with FPTP, and true.
But slightly troubling nonetheless.
My view is that the Lib Dems would do better WITHOUT any debates - look what happened in the Euros
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
At the time I recommended af grow a moustache and buy a Jaguar F Type.
Had he done so, he could now have been standing for election to the European Parliament.
Oi! You are at it again. Always these comments about moustaches. Why? You wouldn't do it about skin colour, eye colour, or baldness. So why this continual comment about moustaches? This is outright bigotry. A person has a dark skin therefore he must have a natural sense of rhythm and a weakness outside the off-stump is no worse than this person has a moustache and must therefore be a baby-eating, right-wing loon.
Enough of these comments Mr. P., it is perfectly possible to be somewhat walrussy about the upper lip and be a respectable member of society who is kind to cats.
Weren't you looking for a suitable mid-life-crisis-crazy-lifechange option a while back?
I have a better solution for the short term - a three month sabbatical starting at the end of the month.
You're taking 3 months off so you can spend more time discussing the indyref?
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
I shall be taking a more or less complete break from the internet. When I resurface, Scotland may have decided to become an independent country. Or not.
That's a shame. I'll miss your contributions on here.
Oh, I've given most of my views by now. Who knows, in three months off I might come up with some new ones.
I won't enjoy the silence.
I'll miss the comedy of the stupid people calling you a PB Tory
The other absurd part of our tax system is that a household where one partner earns £50k and one partner earns £20k pays dramatically more tax than one where both earn £35k. How is that fair?
Something to do with women not wanting to be seen as chattels. Curiously, those who benefit most from not being seen as chattels are highly-paid lawyers married to highly-paid lawyers.
Basically I agree with you that the tax system has become really quite unfair, but it is very tricky politically to fix it. Clearly National Insurance is a massive anomaly: it is utterly bonkers that we tax ordinary paid employment at punitive rates (even for modest earners) compared with other forms of income such as dividends or income diverted into service companies. The best way to deal with this anomaly IMO is a gradual reduction in both employers' and employees' NI rates; any proposal to actually increase NI (as it is rumoured the two Eds are contemplating) is indefensible.
Just a thought re the Spanish abdication, it is 411 years since the last time an Elizabeth in England faced a Phillip in Spain.
It's 456 years since England since had a Spanish King Phillip as reigning monarch.
Hang on! Wasn't a condition of their marriage that Phillip specifically could not be styled King of England?
Utterly incorrect.
On marriage by Act of Parliament as King Philip I he enjoyed all the rights and dignities as joint sovereign during his marriage to Queen Mary. On her death he ceased to be King of England :
Comments
Both stages are essentially overblown versions of sixth form debating societies - though that is partly because sixth form debating societies are scaled down models of the Commons ones!
He is somewhat worse at the public speaking side of things, and noticeably worse at the "common touch" stuff.
You'd probably find these are exactly the same people who were affected worst by the gay floods earlier this year.
I'd best not vote UKIP then ^_~
Looks like me and Bobajobb, in it together.
Youtube - William Hague - The European President (2008)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ26SmDzxHE
More people are going to see highlights and snippets of the debates than the full things, and in such packages (e.g. of PMQs) Ed often comes across better than he is rated by the commentariat who got the full exposure.
Leave aside outside earnings, anyone on 40% income tax is going to be doing self-assessment and if they are not employing someone to help them they are daft.
The bottom line is that there is no way of squaring the circle. If you make the system more honest and simpler by merging NI and Income Tax into a flat rate whilst raising the tax threshold, you hit many pensioners and middle earners, and those who benefit are the lowish paid (who benefit from the rise in allowances) and the very highly paid (who benefit from the lower top-end marginal tax rate)..
GMB - garbage like the other side. Peebee for brekkie, not Susanna Reid.
http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/02/will-cameron-stop-juncker-becoming-eu-chief/
http://politicalbookie.wordpress.com/2014/06/02/will-cameron-stop-juncker-becoming-eu-chief/
Thats not going to be the policy in 2015
That will most likely be no tax on min wage, raise the 40% threshold to £43000 and top rate of 40%
You would never go the fourteen rounds.
A number of times Ed has been on telly and seen the poll rating rise. We think of the conference speech, and I have noted other examples more recently on here.
What Labour has had more recently is a messaging problem. This is probably behind their erratic polling.
It may get Tory posters through the night to believe that Ed's mere arrival on our screens depresses the Labour poll share. But Central Office thinks differently, famously warning that the "more people see of Ed the more they like him".
Were Ed such a liability why is Dave avoiding the debates?
I wouldn't set much stall by Steve's theory.
You predict the best possible Tory outcome and the worst possible Labour one in every situation.
Con's taking blame for clegg ;-)
Populus @PopulusPolls · 38s
New Populus VI: Lab 37 (+2); Cons 32 (-2); LD 10 (+1); UKIP 13 (-1); Oth 8 (=) Tables http://popu.lu/s_vi140602
Had he done so, he could now have been standing for election to the European Parliament.
I thought I was dedicated by spending 5 days in Edinburgh either side of the Day of the referendum.
As my old boss used to say .... "Peter, there's no such thing as a secret, somebody always knows and somebody always tells."
hmm, difficult, but if anyone could pull off a speech like that, Farage is your man..!
http://bit.ly/1l0ksMc
I make no partisan comment, this is just the normal FYI.
Lab 40
Con 28
Lib 9
Kip 23
Where is the polling evidence the tories will get 36% or above,new kid on the block ukip might see to that ;-)
Dave is being equitable by inviting the Greens and Kippers into the debate.
Guido Fawkes @GuidoFawkes 3m
Newark Responds to Mass Immigration of Politicians (via @ChrisMasonBBC) http://guyfawk.es/1pLDvun pic.twitter.com/QZwNrcTuje
It is not the poll weightings you should be looking at, it is the reappearance of TonyB on our airwaves.
More proof positive of Fat_Steve's hypothesis.
This is thanks to that bungling fool Ozzy and his crackpot child benefit cockup.
The party retained control of 6 of the 7 councils they hold. UKIP hold no councils and have no MPs.
"I know I have the body of a weak, feeble trainspotter; but I have the heart and stomach of a King!"
Also, expect the first evidence of rising US wages come Friday.
I suppose it's consistent with FPTP, and true.
But slightly troubling nonetheless.
I'll be around for a few more weeks, of course.
Accordingly and correctly Ukip were given major status for the Euro election but correctly not for the general election where they enjoy no support in the House of Commons.
Essentially actual bums on seats not transitory farts from pollsters.
Enough of these comments Mr. P., it is perfectly possible to be somewhat walrussy about the upper lip and be a respectable member of society who is kind to cats.
UK factory output is continuing to enjoy one of its strongest growth periods for 22 years, a survey has suggested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27663851?ocid=socialflow_twitter#
I'll miss the comedy of the stupid people calling you a PB Tory
Basically I agree with you that the tax system has become really quite unfair, but it is very tricky politically to fix it. Clearly National Insurance is a massive anomaly: it is utterly bonkers that we tax ordinary paid employment at punitive rates (even for modest earners) compared with other forms of income such as dividends or income diverted into service companies. The best way to deal with this anomaly IMO is a gradual reduction in both employers' and employees' NI rates; any proposal to actually increase NI (as it is rumoured the two Eds are contemplating) is indefensible.
On marriage by Act of Parliament as King Philip I he enjoyed all the rights and dignities as joint sovereign during his marriage to Queen Mary. On her death he ceased to be King of England :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_for_the_Marriage_of_Queen_Mary_to_Philip_of_Spain