I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Clegg is the politician of the decade for me. The courage to embrace (really embrace) coalition as he's done is amazing. The price he's paid is woefully unfair.
The LDs wont have more than 25 seats in 2015 in my view. Possibly zero. The votes for a Europhile party of the middle left are almost non-existent.
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Where do you think they are going to gain seats in England? Scotland alone will put them below 50.
I think maybe 30-35 is a more likely band.
Sorry, I was being boneheaded and thinking they still had 60+ seats. So yes, I think they will likely hold on to 40.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
Louise Mensch @LouiseMensch ·3 mins What Clegg should be doing is talking about the GE and reviewing the LD's Eurofanaticism. "Party of In" = Party of Bin,"
Indeed, it is clear the Lib Dems need to be more eurosceptic to win votes.
I disagree. The Lib Dems have always done well as a pro-European party; I don't think that's their problem. The problems are that they've got lost in the Coalition, the benefits of the EU are poorly sold ("It's good for the economy" sounds hollow and patronising and ignores the social cost), and a measured response to Ukip is lacking.
I hardly think losing more than 90% of their MEPs is doing well. They did everything they could to make the EU case work this time. Nobody wants it.
I don't think being 'The party of in' had much to do with last night tbh.
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
When are we going to get a Newark going UKIP thread ?
We may or may not get a Newark going UKIP thread, but whats absoluely certain is that we won't get a Newark going Labour thread even though Tony won it in 97.
I very much doubt we will get a Newark going UKIP thread.
The reason we won't get a Newark going Labour thread is precisely because Tony won it in 1997 and what followed turned Newark off Labour for a very very long time.
Newark has already voted UKIP. Now the bar charts will tell the sizable Labour vote to do a supreme sacrifice !
Even as a UKIP member I am not sure that counts :-)
Well what do you think? ukip have to be in with a decent shout now? It's all about momentum.
I grew up in Newark and lived there for 40 years. Whilst I now live about 15 miles away over the border in Lincolnshire I still consider Newark my home town.
I honestly do not think that, even after the Euros, UKIP have much chance in the town. I think they have picked the wrong candidate and I believe that the large Polish derived population who came and settled in the town after WW2 and who are completely integrated into life there will not be receptive to UKIP's message.
In addition the constituency lost its Northern, more Labour supporting areas where UKIP might pick up votes in the last boundary changes and in return got portions of Ken Clark's old constituency. Again I don't feel that these changes will do anything to improve UKIP's chances.
Of course I would love to see UKIP win. I would suggest there is a chance if they can get the 'lend me your vote' message across which might reduce the impact of any 'vote Tory get Labour' line from the Blues.
But I still think the smart money has to be with the Tories in Newark.
Thanks for such a considered reply. You know the area far better than I do, but nevertheless I am conscious that by-elections often generate an unpredictable momentum of their own, and UKIP could draw support from both Labour and Tories effectively saying 'don't take me for granted'.
It was interesting that UKIP got their lowest scores in inner London, Oxford and Cambridge and Edinburgh and Glasgow, coincidentally the only areas of the UK to have voted 'Yes to AV!'
One of the least white British parts of the country, with an MP who constantly plays on race, and would have been sacked long long ago if she were white and made the comments with the races reversed
It was interesting that UKIP got their lowest scores in inner London, Oxford and Cambridge and Edinburgh and Glasgow, coincidentally the only areas of the UK to have voted 'Yes to AV!'
Glasgow surprises me a bit. I would've thought, even in Scotland, UKIP would pick up strong votes in areas of extreme poverty which would lead people to cast a "fuck the status quo" vote.
Otherwise, that whole list are Guardianista hotspots, so not surprising.
Mr. Omnium, there are worse attributes to have than being fluky. Alexander benefited from tremendous luck for his entire life, and Caesar had a good dose of fortune too.
Mr. Fenster, I think 50's optimistic.
Nonsense Mr Dancer, Alexander tried his luck, but found it to be based on superiority. He forgot to check along the way that it still applied.
I imagine there are many great generals/admirals in the history books that had the bad fortune to lose their engagements. A tragedy for us, but a bolster for your argument. The flipside of the coin is that many rubbishy commanders have earned many garlands. If there's a policy that they get lorded home, and put into posts, then it's a horrible conclusion in that our history has been shaped by lucksters! This is obviously in fact true - I'll leave you to decide the degree!
The best amongst us though will probably have little legacy. (My 456 volumes of 'The Life of Omnium' should certainly be read in this light.)
It was interesting that UKIP got their lowest scores in inner London, Oxford and Cambridge and Edinburgh and Glasgow, coincidentally the only areas of the UK to have voted 'Yes to AV!'
One of the least white British parts of the country, with an MP who constantly plays on race, and would have been sacked long long ago if she were white and made the comments with the races reversed
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Where do you think they are going to gain seats in England? Scotland alone will put them below 50.
I think maybe 30-35 is a more likely band.
Sorry, I was being boneheaded and thinking they still had 60+ seats. So yes, I think they will likely hold on to 40.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
I'd agree with that and on that record Clegg would be entitled to some respect. Regretably that is not the whole record, though. The petulant whining , the seemingly constant cries of "I'll veto" and, especially, the amazing about-face on boundary reform shows another sde to Clegg in office.
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Where do you think they are going to gain seats in England? Scotland alone will put them below 50.
I think maybe 30-35 is a more likely band.
Sorry, I was being boneheaded and thinking they still had 60+ seats. So yes, I think they will likely hold on to 40.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
I'd agree with that and on that record Clegg would be entitled to some respect. Regretably that is not the whole record, though. The petulant whining , the seemingly constant cries of "I'll veto" and, especially, the amazing about-face on boundary reform shows another sde to Clegg in office.
Hardly.
That's a history that says more about the person spinning it than anything else.
On Topic The LDs may as well stick with Clegg, Cable or Farron would not make much difference, if they want a left of centre anti establishment protest vote they will now vote Green. The LDs best hope is to stick with the Coalition and hope some of the benefits of the economic recovery filter through. In any case, while their Euro results were dire, in 1989 Ashdown also fell behind the Greens but the 1992 election saw their vote hold up relative to 1987. The 13% they won in the locals was what David Steel got in 1979, and is probably the best target the LDs can hope for next year
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Where do you think they are going to gain seats in England? Scotland alone will put them below 50.
I think maybe 30-35 is a more likely band.
Sorry, I was being boneheaded and thinking they still had 60+ seats. So yes, I think they will likely hold on to 40.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
I'd agree with that and on that record Clegg would be entitled to some respect. Regretably that is not the whole record, though. The petulant whining , the seemingly constant cries of "I'll veto" and, especially, the amazing about-face on boundary reform shows another sde to Clegg in office.
Louise Mensch @LouiseMensch ·3 mins What Clegg should be doing is talking about the GE and reviewing the LD's Eurofanaticism. "Party of In" = Party of Bin,"
Indeed, it is clear the Lib Dems need to be more eurosceptic to win votes.
I disagree. The Lib Dems have always done well as a pro-European party; I don't think that's their problem. The problems are that they've got lost in the Coalition, the benefits of the EU are poorly sold ("It's good for the economy" sounds hollow and patronising and ignores the social cost), and a measured response to Ukip is lacking.
I hardly think losing more than 90% of their MEPs is doing well. They did everything they could to make the EU case work this time. Nobody wants it.
I don't think being 'The party of in' had much to do with last night tbh.
But it played a part. Having spent 40 years banging the drum and extolling all things European as good and modern with the subtext of peering down their nose at anyone who denied this " true faith ", they have built a bed and are now lying in it. All that telling us the sky would fall if we kept the Pound or how wonderful the European Court is, or the total nonsense about 3 million jobs going wont be forgotten for the rubbish it all was and is.
Put simply post Euro, post mass EU immigration, post the risible prognostications of the courst of human rights what credibility have they got on the subject of "Europe". About 7% I'd say. There comes a moment when you realise banging your head on a wall is daft, and you ought to stop.
Louise Mensch @LouiseMensch ·3 mins What Clegg should be doing is talking about the GE and reviewing the LD's Eurofanaticism. "Party of In" = Party of Bin,"
Indeed, it is clear the Lib Dems need to be more eurosceptic to win votes.
I disagree. The Lib Dems have always done well as a pro-European party; I don't think that's their problem. The problems are that they've got lost in the Coalition, the benefits of the EU are poorly sold ("It's good for the economy" sounds hollow and patronising and ignores the social cost), and a measured response to Ukip is lacking.
I hardly think losing more than 90% of their MEPs is doing well. They did everything they could to make the EU case work this time. Nobody wants it.
I don't think being 'The party of in' had much to do with last night tbh.
But it played a part. Having spent 40 years banging the drum and extolling all things European as good and modern with the subtext of peering down their nose at anyone who denied this " true faith ", they have built a bed and are now lying in it. All that telling us the sky would fall if we kept the Pound or how wonderful the European Court is, or the total nonsense about 3 million jobs going wont be forgotten for the rubbish it all was and is.
Put simply post Euro, post mass EU immigration, post the risible prognostications of the courst of human rights what credibility have they got on the subject of "Europe". About 7% I'd say. There comes a moment when you realise banging your head on a wall is daft, and you ought to stop.
Support for staying in the EU is growing and has been for the last two years.
Support for the Liberal Democrats has massively reduced since entering the coalition in 2010.
We had a terrible local election result the same days as the Euros.
We've been banging the drum for 40 years and had much better Euro election results than this.
Simply put, I think that shows the reasons for last night.
I'd agree with that and on that record Clegg would be entitled to some respect. Regretably that is not the whole record, though. The petulant whining , the seemingly constant cries of "I'll veto" and, especially, the amazing about-face on boundary reform shows another sde to Clegg in office.
And that's the conclusion most will share. It's not really right though. Compare this period to the Lib-Lab pact. Cameron and Clegg have certainly done much, much better at producing a working government for the UK than ever happened back then. What they have done is take an almost irredeemably hard problem (coalition government) and make it work.
We underestimate that achievement at our peril - not all coalitions will work so well.
On topic: Surely if Nick Clegg was going to resign(or be pushed out by his senior colleagues) over these election results, then he would have done so by now?
No surprises on the top two: SF in at 1st count and the DUP in the form Diane Dodds not a million miles off quota. Dodds struggled a bit more last time than necessary so the DUPers will be happy enough.
It gets very interesting below that where sitting Ulster Unionist MEP Jim Nicholson should probably still make it but has been given a hell of a run by Jim Allister of the TUV on 1st preferences. Both Allister's and UKIPs 1st preference votes suggest plenty of hacked off Unionists.
It'll be down to transfers in the pro Union camp. Despite the usual talk from the SDLP of usurping Nicholson it doesn't look likely, anywhere near likely. Even if Alliances preferences split heavily in the SDLP's Alex Attwood's favour he'd still have some going as Sinn Fein don't have too much to spare.
After these elections there may well be blood on the SDLP comfortable suburban Belfast carpet as the members in the provinces seek to take out the coterie of leader Alistair McDonnell.
Thanks for the various comments. Whether Nick Clegg was politically naïve and genuinely believed he could make the Coalition work with David Cameron on the basis of their strong personal relationship is something I'd love to ask him one day.
The fact is that Cameron had his own party management problems (a substantial minority of Conservatives have opposed the Coalition since the beginning) and dealing with them is always going to be more important than appeasing the junior partner.
That said, the Liberal Democrats have had an influence - the rise in personal allowances taking a large number of the lower-paid out of paying tax would not have happened under a wholly Conservative Government - and the point of politics is to try and get some of your ideas enacted. Yes, the party has had to agree with some unpleasant policies but that's the nature of the Coalition beast - in order to make the thing work at all there has to be some give and take.
The alternative - to remain in futile principled Opposition ad infinitum - isn't why most people get into politics.
I think the Lib Dems will do better than expected at GE2015.
Last night will be their nadir.
I've always thought Clegg deserves a lot more credit than he's been given for delivering a stable government and tackling the deficit. But then politics is a cruel business.
I reckon they'll hang on to 50 seats at the next GE with Clegg leading the party,
Where do you think they are going to gain seats in England? Scotland alone will put them below 50.
I think maybe 30-35 is a more likely band.
Sorry, I was being boneheaded and thinking they still had 60+ seats. So yes, I think they will likely hold on to 40.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
I'd agree with that and on that record Clegg would be entitled to some respect. Regretably that is not the whole record, though. The petulant whining , the seemingly constant cries of "I'll veto" and, especially, the amazing about-face on boundary reform shows another sde to Clegg in office.
I agree with Fenster - however, your interpretation of events is, I fear, the impression the majority of the electorate will have come away with.
Personally I don't want to see a party leader permanently agonising over decisions they made, let alone make a video about it for youtube. I don't think many people do.
Final local election voting figures for the 19 unitary councils. Doesn't mean much because they don't have anything particularly in common with each other apart from being unitary:
Lab 285,174 (32.77%) Con 233,842 (26.87%) UKIP 175,135 (20.12%) LD 101,109 (11.62%) Green 37,816 (4.35%) Ind 21,811 (2.51%)
Changes since 2010 locals (excluding Milton Keynes which has had a reorganisation):
Lab 1.96% Con -6.48% UKIP +17.56% LD -14.20% Green +2.00% Ind +0.29%
Swing, Con to Lab: 4.22%
Swing in these councils is slightly below the 4.7% swing Labour need for an overall majority.
I agree of course there are other factors. Indeed as others have said there are some solid positives, they have made coalition work, and we have had stable government when we needed it as a country. For that respect is due. Boundary reform was a black mark in my view as they came down on the side of not making the system fairer. ( I think we need much more voting system change than that personally given the super perverse results we will start getting with four parties in play ). They have suffered a little unfairly for having to make real decisions in a real govt and have lost the NOTA effect.
But, there comes a point where, for instance, a little admission "we were wrong on the Euro" instead of Clegg still hankering after it, might go a long way.
On topic: Surely if Nick Clegg was going to resign(or be pushed out by his senior colleagues) over these election results, then he would have done so by now?
They might have to beat up Ashdown first which could take a while.
edit: might be better to use the mercy-killing argument instead
Isam Sad but Elliot Rodgers seemed to have a determination to kill those he saw as 'the pretty and popular' who were denying him the love life he desired, if not guns it would have been knives or even running them over. He had severe aspergers and mental health issues, and was probably psychotic and should have been better monitored, as indeed his only family wanted from the police, but California has some of the toughest gun laws in the US
On topic: Surely if Nick Clegg was going to resign(or be pushed out by his senior colleagues) over these election results, then he would have done so by now?
They might have to beat up Ashdown first which could take a while.
edit: might be better to use the mercy-killing argument instead
Of course, the irony is that with neither the Tories nor Labour getting much enthusiasm from the voters and neither UKIP nor the Greens likely to win more than 1 or 2 seats next year, another hung parliament is the likeliest outcome and even if they only get the 13% they got in the locals and lose over half their seats, Clegg could again hold the balance of power
That said, the Liberal Democrats have had an influence - the rise in personal allowances taking a large number of the lower-paid out of paying tax would not have happened under a wholly Conservative Government
Sorry Stodge. No matter how many times you (and others repeat it) it remains not entirely true as a statement.
Below are quotes from an article by the research director of the Fabians - no friend of the Tories - from 2010.
Has anyone noticed how the Lib Dems’ catchy proposal to raise the income tax threshold to £10,000 has very quietly changed? Back in the old days – when the Libs were a progressive party of the left - the proposal was for a ‘tax switch’, taking £17 billion off the super-rich (highly progressive) to fund the cut in income tax (itself highly regressive).
David-Cameron-Nick-CleggBut now it’s just become the tax cut. The Lib Dems have agreed to drop many of the progressive measures to pay for it, such as a mansion tax and scrapping higher-rate pension relief. And it looks instead as if the revenue will come mainly from public spending cuts – making the overall effect even more regressive.
[snip]
Interestingly, Michael Howard considered an increase in the personal allowance for the Conservative manifesto in 2005. He rejected it as being too unfair. Meanwhile, many on the Tory right have long been campaigning to get this policy adopted – most recently Norman Tebbit, and before that Maurice Saatchi.
[snip]
The truth is that this tax cut was not a painful concession that the Tory right had to make. It is something they have wanted for years.
Isam Sad but Elliot Rodgers seemed to have a determination to kill those he saw as 'the pretty and popular' who were denying him the love life he desired, if not guns it would have been knives or even running them over. He had severe aspergers and mental health issues, and was probably psychotic and should have been better monitored, as indeed his only family wanted from the police, but California has some of the toughest gun laws in the US
Yeah I wasnt making a case for or against strict gun laws, just so sad for how that father must be feeling.
So Clegg has Ashdown, but there are another 3 former leaders still alive. Can Kennedy, Steel or Campbell knife Clegg over the body of Ashdown?
I am not a lib dem, but my understand is that Ashdown has a special place in the pantheon of the party - he was the person who brought the party through the dark days of the Liberal / SDP merger and hammered it into a new entity
Thanks for the various comments. Whether Nick Clegg was politically naïve and genuinely believed he could make the Coalition work with David Cameron on the basis of their strong personal relationship is something I'd love to ask him one day.
The fact is that Cameron had his own party management problems (a substantial minority of Conservatives have opposed the Coalition since the beginning) and dealing with them is always going to be more important than appeasing the junior partner.
That said, the Liberal Democrats have had an influence - the rise in personal allowances taking a large number of the lower-paid out of paying tax would not have happened under a wholly Conservative Government - and the point of politics is to try and get some of your ideas enacted. Yes, the party has had to agree with some unpleasant policies but that's the nature of the Coalition beast - in order to make the thing work at all there has to be some give and take.
The alternative - to remain in futile principled Opposition ad infinitum - isn't why most people get into politics.
Clegg has made the coalition work. Cameron too. Both have them have conquered the short-termism of their parties to do so. They can't really be held responsible for the failures of the idea of coalition - by definition you get a mixed lowest common denominator.
The reason people should get into politics is because they wish to use their noddles, sadly though this seems to be a minority view.
Incidentally, the probability that the LibDems would refuse to agree to a referendum in any Tory/LibDem coalition negotiations has today plummeted, possibly to zero.
Incidentally, the probability that the LibDems would refuse to agree to a referendum in any Tory/LibDem coalition negotiations has today plummeted, possibly to zero.
They accepted it as soon as Cameron stated that he would not become PM if he couldn't deliver it. You could see Clegg's rhetoric change almost overnight.
So Clegg has Ashdown, but there are another 3 former leaders still alive. Can Kennedy, Steel or Campbell knife Clegg over the body of Ashdown?
I am not a lib dem, but my understand is that Ashdown has a special place in the pantheon of the party - he was the person who brought the party through the dark days of the Liberal / SDP merger and hammered it into a new entity
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
Anyway if a party doesn't have the balls to take a step back from the precipice then it deserves a kick in. The LDs are doing the same mistake as the tories in 1995 or Labour in 2009 and keeping their leadership all the way to the bitter end.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
and yet she's screaming hot totty compared to her predecessor Bairbre de Brun
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
"She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist"
Half the time you could spot Militant and Swup types just by their face - that same kind of grim misery.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
and yet she's screaming hot totty compared to her predecessor Bairbre de Brun
Bairbre at least had a smile on her face occasionally. Christ even Jim Allister looks mildly happy on his election posters.
JackW. UKIP made their real local election mark in Unionist dominated constituencies with the exception of the new Newry & Down council but thats because Mr UKIP Northern Ireland, Henry Reilly, has his own wee personal fiefdom own there. He's the guy running for Europe.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
and yet she's screaming hot totty compared to her predecessor Bairbre de Brun
Bairbre at least had a smile on her face occasionally. Christ even Jim Allister looks mildly happy on his election posters.
JackW. UKIP made their real local election mark in Unionist dominated constituencies with the exception of the new Newry & Down council but thats because Mr UKIP Northern Ireland, Henry Reilly, has his own wee personal fiefdom own there. He's the guy running for Europe.
Bairbre at least had a smile on her face occasionally.
SeanF Indeed Speedy When the country changes decisively against your party changing the leader will not make a decisive difference, although it may save a handful of seats.
I thought it was interesting that UKIP's Wales MEP said Labour's southern heartlands are 'there for the taking'.
Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but imagine UKIP running a local guy against Kinnock the Younger in Aberavon, for example. Given what we've seen in Sunderland and Rotherham, that could be interesting.
Ashdown/Ming/Kennedy - they all have a special place. Real tryers. Clegg has actually delivered something though, and it's pretty hard to deal with that for a party of tryers. It's hard enough to deal with the reconciliation of ideals with government if you're a member of the mainstream parties too.
The LDs need to find a policy that sets them apart. A wishy-washy environmentalism, mixed with a kow-towing to world groups (unfairly I'm sure, but that's how I see them) isn't a vote winner.
It seems perhaps we may have great politicians, but few ideas at the moment.
But in Scotland, the aftermath of the election will inevitably focus on what the results mean for the independence referendum on September 18.
The most obvious implication is that Alex Salmond’s often repeated claim that UKIP’s success highlights a fundamental difference between English and Scottish political attitudes now lacks any credibility.
The First Minister has already blamed the BBC for the development, claiming the national broadcaster has been “beaming in” English coverage of Nigel Farage and corrupting Scottish minds.
That was a desperate piece of spin that failed to deal with the reality of thousands of Scots deciding to vote for Nigel Farage's immigrant-bashing party.
But in Scotland, the aftermath of the election will inevitably focus on what the results mean for the independence referendum on September 18.
The most obvious implication is that Alex Salmond’s often repeated claim that UKIP’s success highlights a fundamental difference between English and Scottish political attitudes now lacks any credibility.
The First Minister has already blamed the BBC for the development, claiming the national broadcaster has been “beaming in” English coverage of Nigel Farage and corrupting Scottish minds.
That was a desperate piece of spin that failed to deal with the reality of thousands of Scots deciding to vote for Nigel Farage's immigrant-bashing party.
The unpalatable truth is that since the tuition fees debacle, nothing Nick has said has made the slightest difference but it is important for him to be the scapegoat, to carry the sins of the party (and himself) into the wilderness and to be sent there not by the party but by the electorate just as happened to John Major and Gordon Brown.
What the hell do you think happened on Thursday?
The Lib Dems polled less than the Greens. 6th in Scotland.
The electorate have spoken, but Clegg is too tone deaf to hear them.
Other European leaders have fallen on their swords. Clegg clings to his red box
That said, the Liberal Democrats have had an influence - the rise in personal allowances taking a large number of the lower-paid out of paying tax would not have happened under a wholly Conservative Government
Sorry Stodge. No matter how many times you (and others repeat it) it remains not entirely true as a statement.
Below are quotes from an article by the research director of the Fabians - no friend of the Tories - from 2010.
Has anyone noticed how the Lib Dems’ catchy proposal to raise the income tax threshold to £10,000 has very quietly changed? Back in the old days – when the Libs were a progressive party of the left - the proposal was for a ‘tax switch’, taking £17 billion off the super-rich (highly progressive) to fund the cut in income tax (itself highly regressive).
David-Cameron-Nick-CleggBut now it’s just become the tax cut. The Lib Dems have agreed to drop many of the progressive measures to pay for it, such as a mansion tax and scrapping higher-rate pension relief. And it looks instead as if the revenue will come mainly from public spending cuts – making the overall effect even more regressive.
[snip]
Interestingly, Michael Howard considered an increase in the personal allowance for the Conservative manifesto in 2005. He rejected it as being too unfair. Meanwhile, many on the Tory right have long been campaigning to get this policy adopted – most recently Norman Tebbit, and before that Maurice Saatchi.
[snip]
The truth is that this tax cut was not a painful concession that the Tory right had to make. It is something they have wanted for years.
Is it really that right wing to not tax the first £10,000 off of what people earn. I mean this is hardly helping the "rich". Its helping everyone, its the best policy the Lib Dems came up with !
The most obvious implication is that Alex Salmond’s often repeated claim that UKIP’s success highlights a fundamental difference between English and Scottish political attitudes now lacks any credibility.
Salmond has built his entire campaign on hatred of "the other". He can't really complain when a better salesman beats him at his own game.
But in Scotland, the aftermath of the election will inevitably focus on what the results mean for the independence referendum on September 18.
The most obvious implication is that Alex Salmond’s often repeated claim that UKIP’s success highlights a fundamental difference between English and Scottish political attitudes now lacks any credibility.
The First Minister has already blamed the BBC for the development, claiming the national broadcaster has been “beaming in” English coverage of Nigel Farage and corrupting Scottish minds.
That was a desperate piece of spin that failed to deal with the reality of thousands of Scots deciding to vote for Nigel Farage's immigrant-bashing party.
No one in Scotland did more to promote UKIP than Alex Salmond. I suspect he knows this but I don't anticipate an admission. And a reasonable night for the Scottish Tories to cheer him up further!
The unpalatable truth is that since the tuition fees debacle, nothing Nick has said has made the slightest difference but it is important for him to be the scapegoat, to carry the sins of the party (and himself) into the wilderness and to be sent there not by the party but by the electorate just as happened to John Major and Gordon Brown.
What the hell do you think happened on Thursday?
The Lib Dems polled less than the Greens. 6th in Scotland.
The electorate have spoken, but Clegg is too tone deaf to hear them.
Other European leaders have fallen on their swords. Clegg clings to his red box
Cameroons are hardly in a position to lecture people on not listening.
hordes of lib dem zulus trying to storm the sangar, ashdown at the doorway bayoneting them all one after the other, whimpering voice in the corner "please let me resign", "no, we can do it, i'll kill them all" more whimpering
Comments
Clegg is the politician of the decade for me. The courage to embrace (really embrace) coalition as he's done is amazing. The price he's paid is woefully unfair.
The LDs wont have more than 25 seats in 2015 in my view. Possibly zero. The votes for a Europhile party of the middle left are almost non-existent.
I think Clegg has had his kicking. The tuition fees was a debacle (Lib Dems will have to learn that coalitions are now a very real possibility and hostage-to-fortune popular policies are no longer allowed), losing Laws and Huhne didn't help and Cable's diminishing visibility has exposed Clegg to continual buckets of horse-shit being tipped on his head. But, and this is a mighty big but, they've been pretty impressive in government. Especially as it had been a million years since they'd been in one.
I reckon the Tory/Lib Dem relations have been an improvement on Blair/Brown and both sides have been impressively grown up in their dealings. At GE2015 they'll have a pretty decent record to put to the public.
I suspect there is a large percentage of people out there who would happily see a Tory/Lib Dem coalition back in power. I wouldn't mind it, I think they've done okay.
Certainly better than expected and given the legacy of "there being no money left" and the subsequent Euro disasters, I think things have gone pretty well.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/euro-elections-how-scotland-voted-area-by-area.1401053220
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu-regions/S15000001
One of the least white British parts of the country, with an MP who constantly plays on race, and would have been sacked long long ago if she were white and made the comments with the races reversed
Otherwise, that whole list are Guardianista hotspots, so not surprising.
I imagine there are many great generals/admirals in the history books that had the bad fortune to lose their engagements. A tragedy for us, but a bolster for your argument. The flipside of the coin is that many rubbishy commanders have earned many garlands. If there's a policy that they get lorded home, and put into posts, then it's a horrible conclusion in that our history has been shaped by lucksters! This is obviously in fact true - I'll leave you to decide the degree!
The best amongst us though will probably have little legacy. (My 456 volumes of 'The Life of Omnium' should certainly be read in this light.)
That's a history that says more about the person spinning it than anything else.
Put simply post Euro, post mass EU immigration, post the risible prognostications of the courst of human rights what credibility have they got on the subject of "Europe". About 7% I'd say. There comes a moment when you realise banging your head on a wall is daft, and you ought to stop.
Support for the Liberal Democrats has massively reduced since entering the coalition in 2010.
We had a terrible local election result the same days as the Euros.
We've been banging the drum for 40 years and had much better Euro election results than this.
Simply put, I think that shows the reasons for last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijFaBQnfMI
Con 20,017 (28.24%)
Lab 18,842 (26.58%)
UKIP 14,261 (20.12%)
LD 11,673 (16.47%)
Green 4,884 (6.89%)
Ind 1,075 (1.52%)
TUSC 124 (0.17%)
And that's the conclusion most will share. It's not really right though. Compare this period to the Lib-Lab pact. Cameron and Clegg have certainly done much, much better at producing a working government for the UK than ever happened back then. What they have done is take an almost irredeemably hard problem (coalition government) and make it work.
We underestimate that achievement at our peril - not all coalitions will work so well.
No surprises on the top two: SF in at 1st count and the DUP in the form Diane Dodds not a million miles off quota. Dodds struggled a bit more last time than necessary so the DUPers will be happy enough.
It gets very interesting below that where sitting Ulster Unionist MEP Jim Nicholson should probably still make it but has been given a hell of a run by Jim Allister of the TUV on 1st preferences. Both Allister's and UKIPs 1st preference votes suggest plenty of hacked off Unionists.
It'll be down to transfers in the pro Union camp. Despite the usual talk from the SDLP of usurping Nicholson it doesn't look likely, anywhere near likely. Even if Alliances preferences split heavily in the SDLP's Alex Attwood's favour he'd still have some going as Sinn Fein don't have too much to spare.
After these elections there may well be blood on the SDLP comfortable suburban Belfast carpet as the members in the provinces seek to take out the coterie of leader Alistair McDonnell.
The fact is that Cameron had his own party management problems (a substantial minority of Conservatives have opposed the Coalition since the beginning) and dealing with them is always going to be more important than appeasing the junior partner.
That said, the Liberal Democrats have had an influence - the rise in personal allowances taking a large number of the lower-paid out of paying tax would not have happened under a wholly Conservative Government - and the point of politics is to try and get some of your ideas enacted. Yes, the party has had to agree with some unpleasant policies but that's the nature of the Coalition beast - in order to make the thing work at all there has to be some give and take.
The alternative - to remain in futile principled Opposition ad infinitum - isn't why most people get into politics.
Nice try Tom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Newton_Dunn
Personally I don't want to see a party leader permanently agonising over decisions they made, let alone make a video about it for youtube. I don't think many people do.
I guess its difficult not to be but...
Lab 285,174 (32.77%)
Con 233,842 (26.87%)
UKIP 175,135 (20.12%)
LD 101,109 (11.62%)
Green 37,816 (4.35%)
Ind 21,811 (2.51%)
Changes since 2010 locals (excluding Milton Keynes which has had a reorganisation):
Lab 1.96%
Con -6.48%
UKIP +17.56%
LD -14.20%
Green +2.00%
Ind +0.29%
Swing, Con to Lab: 4.22%
Swing in these councils is slightly below the 4.7% swing Labour need for an overall majority.
Corporeal:
I agree of course there are other factors. Indeed as others have said there are some solid positives, they have made coalition work, and we have had stable government when we needed it as a country. For that respect is due. Boundary reform was a black mark in my view as they came down on the side of not making the system fairer. ( I think we need much more voting system change than that personally given the super perverse results we will start getting with four parties in play ). They have suffered a little unfairly for having to make real decisions in a real govt and have lost the NOTA effect.
But, there comes a point where, for instance, a little admission "we were wrong on the Euro" instead of Clegg still hankering after it, might go a long way.
edit: might be better to use the mercy-killing argument instead
Can Kennedy, Steel or Campbell knife Clegg over the body of Ashdown?
Below are quotes from an article by the research director of the Fabians - no friend of the Tories - from 2010.
http://www.leftfootforward.org/2010/05/clegg’s-10k-tax-allowance-is-no-tory-concession-its-a-tory-dream/
Has anyone noticed how the Lib Dems’ catchy proposal to raise the income tax threshold to £10,000 has very quietly changed? Back in the old days – when the Libs were a progressive party of the left - the proposal was for a ‘tax switch’, taking £17 billion off the super-rich (highly progressive) to fund the cut in income tax (itself highly regressive).
David-Cameron-Nick-CleggBut now it’s just become the tax cut. The Lib Dems have agreed to drop many of the progressive measures to pay for it, such as a mansion tax and scrapping higher-rate pension relief. And it looks instead as if the revenue will come mainly from public spending cuts – making the overall effect even more regressive.
[snip]
Interestingly, Michael Howard considered an increase in the personal allowance for the Conservative manifesto in 2005. He rejected it as being too unfair. Meanwhile, many on the Tory right have long been campaigning to get this policy adopted – most recently Norman Tebbit, and before that Maurice Saatchi.
[snip]
The truth is that this tax cut was not a painful concession that the Tory right had to make. It is something they have wanted for years.
Just a guess.
That's the biggest lead for Unionists over Nationalists since 1994.
Clegg has made the coalition work. Cameron too. Both have them have conquered the short-termism of their parties to do so. They can't really be held responsible for the failures of the idea of coalition - by definition you get a mixed lowest common denominator.
The reason people should get into politics is because they wish to use their noddles, sadly though this seems to be a minority view.
Maybe nobody wants it. It's a bit like taking over a footie club about to be relegated.
This is Martina Anderson, Sinn Fein MEP and, believe me, thats about as bright and happy as she ever looks. The election posters were no better. I know a fair number of Derry people and they never look that miserable.
She just looks likes an earnest 70s Marxist, which I guess she was......with added explosives.
Half the time you could spot Militant and Swup types just by their face - that same kind of grim misery.
JackW. UKIP made their real local election mark in Unionist dominated constituencies with the exception of the new Newry & Down council but thats because Mr UKIP Northern Ireland, Henry Reilly, has his own wee personal fiefdom own there. He's the guy running for Europe.
she really enjoyed a good funeral.
Thanks.
Speedy When the country changes decisively against your party changing the leader will not make a decisive difference, although it may save a handful of seats.
Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but imagine UKIP running a local guy against Kinnock the Younger in Aberavon, for example. Given what we've seen in Sunderland and Rotherham, that could be interesting.
The LDs need to find a policy that sets them apart. A wishy-washy environmentalism, mixed with a kow-towing to world groups (unfairly I'm sure, but that's how I see them) isn't a vote winner.
It seems perhaps we may have great politicians, but few ideas at the moment.
The most obvious implication is that Alex Salmond’s often repeated claim that UKIP’s success highlights a fundamental difference between English and Scottish political attitudes now lacks any credibility.
The First Minister has already blamed the BBC for the development, claiming the national broadcaster has been “beaming in” English coverage of Nigel Farage and corrupting Scottish minds.
That was a desperate piece of spin that failed to deal with the reality of thousands of Scots deciding to vote for Nigel Farage's immigrant-bashing party.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/david-clegg-ukips-breakthrough-scotland-3608726
The Lib Dems polled less than the Greens. 6th in Scotland.
The electorate have spoken, but Clegg is too tone deaf to hear them.
Other European leaders have fallen on their swords. Clegg clings to his red box
Maybe I am becoming too sweet
Titter ....