Not just Germany but the bulk of the northern block. It's why they will cut a deal and put pressure on the southern bloc to agree.
Yes, I'm sure there will be a deal, and that the deal will include some significant concessions. The question is, will those concessions be enough? Of course, they won't be enough to satisfy the diehard Kippers and Booers - nothing would - but I don't think it will be hard to make progress on at least some of the points. In particular, reforms to end EU benefit tourism should be straightforward - Cameron will be pushing at an open door in Berlin and in other northern capitals on that, and the French and Italians will also not be averse.
Financial regulation is the most important sticking point, and likely to be tricky. My view is that, if we can't make good progress on that, we're probably better off Out.
Either way, though, we shouldn't kid ourselves that leaving is a cost-free option which gives us all upside and no downside, or that we can negotiate access to the Single Market without buying back in to some of the constraints which the Kippers will think we've just freed ourselves of.
Not just Germany but the bulk of the northern block. It's why they will cut a deal and put pressure on the southern bloc to agree.
Yes, I'm sure there will be a deal, and that the deal will include some significant concessions. The question is, will those concessions be enough? Of course, they won't be enough to satisfy the diehard Kippers and Booers - nothing would - but I don't think it will be hard to make progress on at least some of the points. In particular, reforms to end EU benefit tourism should be straightforward - Cameron will be pushing at an open door in Berlin and in other northern capitals on that, and the French and Italians will also not be averse.
Financial regulation is the most important sticking point, and likely to be tricky. My view is that, if we can't make good progress on that, we're probably better off Out.
Either way, though, we shouldn't kid ourselves that leaving is a cost-free option which gives us all upside and no downside.
My thoughts exactly, I'm prepared to see what deal we can cut then be persuaded by the arguments.
Not just Germany but the bulk of the northern block. It's why they will cut a deal and put pressure on the southern bloc to agree.
Yes, I'm sure there will be a deal, and that the deal will include some significant concessions. The question is, will those concessions be enough? Of course, they won't be enough to satisfy the diehard Kippers and Booers - nothing would - but I don't think it will be hard to make progress on at least some of the points. In particular, reforms to end EU benefit tourism should be straightforward - Cameron will be pushing at an open door in Berlin and in other northern capitals on that, and the French and Italians will also not be averse.
Financial regulation is the most important sticking point, and likely to be tricky. My view is that, if we can't make good progress on that, we're probably better off Out.
Either way, though, we shouldn't kid ourselves that leaving is a cost-free option which gives us all upside and no downside.
What they won't concede, given the hooha over immigration with Switzerland, is anything that could be represented as "re-taking control of our borders".
But the main thing people are concerned about with the EU is unfiltered immigration. Benefits tourism is a tiny part of that. Even if you stop it entirely, you will still have hundreds of thousands of EU migrants coming here every year, which is far too much for most people in this country. How is the renegotiation going to be enough to satisfy those ordinary voters if you don't address that?
Let's dance with our hankies like Morris As joyous as the works of Horace, Before we go go grab a coat And march off to vote, Not for Nigel, but for Dave and for Boris!
Mr. Woolie, like the Horace reference (presumably Horatio defending the bridge from the Janiculum when the Etruscans attacked?).
I've amended it! Horace the poet.
The problem with writing them quick Is the end product can be quite sick. As green as a hippy, With words wrong, and slippy, That make me look like a pr!ck
Mr. Woolie, like the Horace reference (presumably Horatio defending the bridge from the Janiculum when the Etruscans attacked?).
I've amended it! Horace the poet.
The problem with writing them quick Is the end product can be quite sick. As green as a hippy, With words wrong, and slippy, That make me look like a pr!ck
Mr. Woolie, like the Horace reference (presumably Horatio defending the bridge from the Janiculum when the Etruscans attacked?).
I've amended it! Horace the poet.
The problem with writing them quick Is the end product can be quite sick. As green as a hippy, With words wrong, and slippy, That make me look like a pr!ck
But the main thing people are concerned about with the EU is unfiltered immigration. Benefits tourism is a tiny part of that. Even if you stop it entirely, you will still have hundreds of thousands of EU migrants coming here every year, which is far too much for most people in this country. How is the renegotiation going to be enough to satisfy those ordinary voters if you don't address that?
It might not be enough. I completely agree that the principle of free movement of workers, as one of the 'four freedoms' , is non-negotiable from the EU's point of view. For the same reason, I also think it, possibly in a watered-down version, would also form part of any subsequent treaty giving us access to the Single Market (it's this bit which Kippers seem to be totally blind to, despite the real-life examples of Norway and Sweden).
However, I don't think this matters very much, because I don't think concern over EU immigration is as salient an issue as people make out. Inasmuch as immigration is driving UKIP support, it's actually non-EU immigration which is the most emotive IMO. The Romanians and Bulgarians are being used as a proxy for non-EU immigration, which of course has absolutely zilch to do with being in the EU.
I could be wrong, of course, but, as I've said before, and as I have bet with Richard T, I don't think an In/Out referendum is winnable by the Out side. The threat of it is useful as a bargaining counter, but, in the end, we'll stay In. The only question, therefore, is how much reform we can achieve.
So, there was me chatting with God, And I suddenly found it quite odd, That I barked and and I brayed, But no impact it made, For he doesn't exist, the old Sod.
That's about as big a screaming Sell Labour! signal as you could hope to find.
Still, I enjoyed the bit about the false consciousness of the proletariat: "Ed Miliband may envy David Cameron's ratings, but his policies will be popular with voters. They just don't know it yet"
Strange choice of phrase given that it is associated in politics with Reagan's description of Latinos as Republicans who didn't know it yet. Reagan (and, moreso, subsequent Republicans) failed to grasp how much effort it would take to convince anyone to vote for you even if on paper they ought to support your policies. That seems to be exactly what Polly is doing.
Polly Toynbee as so often is dishing out a dollop of sugar to make the medicine go down. Get to the final paragraph for her real message:
"Labour has a year to make its policies heard and believed. Miliband has done well in laying out ideas that resonate: growth for the few is not national growth at all; new jobs that are mostly low-paid and insecure are no basis for economic strength. But credibility still has to be won, and that needs his whole shadow cabinet to step up. Some worry that Miliband's agenda isn't business-friendly, but business will never even be polite until it believes Labour is going to win. Miliband's entire team should be a formidable phalanx hammering out these popular policies until every voter can say what Labour stands for. Axelrod has work to do."
The Limerick! Oh poem, who lines total five Keeping writing, and PB alive. Quick now, change the rhyme, For a very short time, And jerk back, conclude with a jive.
That's about as big a screaming Sell Labour! signal as you could hope to find.
Still, I enjoyed the bit about the false consciousness of the proletariat: "Ed Miliband may envy David Cameron's ratings, but his policies will be popular with voters. They just don't know it yet"
Strange choice of phrase given that it is associated in politics with Reagan's description of Latinos as Republicans who didn't know it yet. Reagan (and, moreso, subsequent Republicans) failed to grasp how much effort it would take to convince anyone to vote for you even if on paper they ought to support your policies. That seems to be exactly what Polly is doing.
Polly Toynbee as so often is dishing out a dollop of sugar to make the medicine go down. Get to the final paragraph for her real message:
"Labour has a year to make its policies heard and believed. Miliband has done well in laying out ideas that resonate: growth for the few is not national growth at all; new jobs that are mostly low-paid and insecure are no basis for economic strength. But credibility still has to be won, and that needs his whole shadow cabinet to step up. Some worry that Miliband's agenda isn't business-friendly, but business will never even be polite until it believes Labour is going to win. Miliband's entire team should be a formidable phalanx hammering out these popular policies until every voter can say what Labour stands for. Axelrod has work to do."
I think Polly Toynbee and Michael Fabricants hairs are related
Them gays, getting married, Causing floods like a spring tide of Romanians.
Much improved Mr.Bond, though of course the correct spelling is "Vem gays"
I think you should turn your hand to alliterative verse. You can use Middle English, for middle England.
even though spring tide has nothing to do with the season?
A fair point. I plead ignorance. I'm from the Kingdom of Mercia. The only tide I'm familiar with is the Severn Bore
Tsk...
Did you not see what I did there?
A spring tide is to the seasons as gay marriage is to the floods. Thus, I introduced a flaw into the composition of the haiku to parody the flaw in the UKIPper thinking of the voice heard in the haiku.
Do keep up - there could be a question about this in the paper and it's May already.
That's about as big a screaming Sell Labour! signal as you could hope to find.
Still, I enjoyed the bit about the false consciousness of the proletariat: "Ed Miliband may envy David Cameron's ratings, but his policies will be popular with voters. They just don't know it yet"
Strange choice of phrase given that it is associated in politics with Reagan's description of Latinos as Republicans who didn't know it yet. Reagan (and, moreso, subsequent Republicans) failed to grasp how much effort it would take to convince anyone to vote for you even if on paper they ought to support your policies. That seems to be exactly what Polly is doing.
Polly Toynbee as so often is dishing out a dollop of sugar to make the medicine go down. Get to the final paragraph for her real message:
"Labour has a year to make its policies heard and believed. Miliband has done well in laying out ideas that resonate: growth for the few is not national growth at all; new jobs that are mostly low-paid and insecure are no basis for economic strength. But credibility still has to be won, and that needs his whole shadow cabinet to step up. Some worry that Miliband's agenda isn't business-friendly, but business will never even be polite until it believes Labour is going to win. Miliband's entire team should be a formidable phalanx hammering out these popular policies until every voter can say what Labour stands for. Axelrod has work to do."
I think Polly Toynbee and Michael Fabricants hairs are related
Afternoon all. I haven't seen the Farage chat but after Dan Hodges decreed it a disaster for Nigel Farage, I am fairly sure that it wasn't.
Hodges has a certain form in this area.
I don't expect it will have much impact on the voters, but it is a pretty impressive take-down by the interviewer imho.
His main two points relied on suppositions which are false
That the candidate who made awful comments about gay people was a councillor (he isnt and this one is actually a lie I think.. pretty sure he was a candidate at last years local elections, and isnt this year.. O Brien just made it up to turn the pressure up)
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
For those, such as Fett, on the left, The polls find them trapped in a cleft. For in spite of their lead, Inspiration they need, Of which they are clearly bereft.
That's about as big a screaming Sell Labour! signal as you could hope to find.
Still, I enjoyed the bit about the false consciousness of the proletariat: "Ed Miliband may envy David Cameron's ratings, but his policies will be popular with voters. They just don't know it yet"
Strange choice of phrase given that it is associated in politics with Reagan's description of Latinos as Republicans who didn't know it yet. Reagan (and, moreso, subsequent Republicans) failed to grasp how much effort it would take to convince anyone to vote for you even if on paper they ought to support your policies. That seems to be exactly what Polly is doing.
Miliband's entire team should be a formidable phalanx hammering out these popular policies until every voter can say what Labour stands for."
For those, such as Fett, on the left, The polls find them trapped in a cleft. For in spite of their lead, Inspiration they need, Of which they are clearly bereft.
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
Are you sure?
I don't know either way, but their mother is German. Their 'mother tongue' is literally German.
She may have spoken to them in English first as babies, but I think that is unlikely
I knew a couple (Swedish mother, Brazilian father) raising their daughter in the USA, who spoke all three languages 'natively'. Would you say her first language was English?
Mr. Putney, posted the other day about perhaps writing a couple of lazy musing on spreadbetting in F1 at the halfway and three-quarters stages of the season (on my own blog, of course). Wouldn't include tips. What d'you think?
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
Are you sure?
I don't know either way, but their mother is German. Their 'mother tongue' is literally German.
She may have spoken to them in English first as babies, but I think that is unlikely
I knew a couple (Swedish mother, Brazilian father) raising their daughter in the USA, who spoke all three languages 'natively'. Would you say her first language was English?
I would consider their first language to be what they speak to each other in as a family at home. I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
Them gays, getting married, Causing floods like a spring tide of Romanians.
Much improved Mr.Bond, though of course the correct spelling is "Vem gays"
I think you should turn your hand to alliterative verse. You can use Middle English, for middle England.
even though spring tide has nothing to do with the season?
A fair point. I plead ignorance. I'm from the Kingdom of Mercia. The only tide I'm familiar with is the Severn Bore
Tsk...
Did you not see what I did there?
A spring tide is to the seasons as gay marriage is to the floods. Thus, I introduced a flaw into the composition of the haiku to parody the flaw in the UKIPper thinking of the voice heard in the haiku.
Do keep up - there could be a question about this in the paper and it's May already.
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
Are you sure?
I don't know either way, but their mother is German. Their 'mother tongue' is literally German.
She may have spoken to them in English first as babies, but I think that is unlikely
I knew a couple (Swedish mother, Brazilian father) raising their daughter in the USA, who spoke all three languages 'natively'. Would you say her first language was English?
I would consider their first language to be what they speak to each other in as a family at home. I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
Maybe they can speak German, thats not the point.
It isnt the same as the example you gave
I think the salient point is not which way round they speak their languages but that unlike far too many British people they speak more than one. That will give them an advantage. It's why so many people can migrate here.
Telegraph: “Ed Miliband: Labour won't 'turn our backs' on people worried about immigration
Ed Miliband has promised to listen to voters who are concerned about immigration but refuses to set a target for the number of foreigners being allowed into the UK.”
Telegraph: “Ed Miliband: Labour won't 'turn our backs' on people worried about immigration
Ed Miliband has promised to listen to voters who are concerned about immigration but refuses to set a target for the number of foreigners being allowed into the UK.”
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
Are you sure?
I don't know either way, but their mother is German. Their 'mother tongue' is literally German.
She may have spoken to them in English first as babies, but I think that is unlikely
I knew a couple (Swedish mother, Brazilian father) raising their daughter in the USA, who spoke all three languages 'natively'. Would you say her first language was English?
I would consider their first language to be what they speak to each other in as a family at home. I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
Maybe they can speak German, thats not the point.
It isnt the same as the example you gave
I think the salient point is not which way round they speak their languages but that unlike far too many British people they speak more than one. That will give them an advantage. It's why so many people can migrate here.
Why can so many people migrate here? Sorry, I dont get it. Because British people are so multi lingual? I would have though it was because English is so widely spoken abroad
Telegraph: “Ed Miliband: Labour won't 'turn our backs' on people worried about immigration
Ed Miliband has promised to listen to voters who are concerned about immigration but refuses to set a target for the number of foreigners being allowed into the UK.”
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
But the main thing people are concerned about with the EU is unfiltered immigration. Benefits tourism is a tiny part of that. Even if you stop it entirely, you will still have hundreds of thousands of EU migrants coming here every year, which is far too much for most people in this country. How is the renegotiation going to be enough to satisfy those ordinary voters if you don't address that?
It might not be enough. I completely agree that the principle of free movement of workers, as one of the 'four freedoms' , is non-negotiable from the EU's point of view. For the same reason, I also think it, possibly in a watered-down version, would also form part of any subsequent treaty giving us access to the Single Market (it's this bit which Kippers seem to be totally blind to, despite the real-life examples of Norway and Sweden).
However, I don't think this matters very much, because I don't think concern over EU immigration is as salient an issue as people make out. Inasmuch as immigration is driving UKIP support, it's actually non-EU immigration which is the most emotive IMO. The Romanians and Bulgarians are being used as a proxy for non-EU immigration, which of course has absolutely zilch to do with being in the EU.
Only if you define "access" to the single market very narrowly. Korea and Mexico have access to the single market, although they're not fully signed up members. The UK could do something similar. Yes, there would be a small cost to the fraction of EU trade that falls between free trade and single market issues, but it would be tiny compared to FTAs we could sign elsewhere.
Telegraph: “Ed Miliband: Labour won't 'turn our backs' on people worried about immigration
Ed Miliband has promised to listen to voters who are concerned about immigration but refuses to set a target for the number of foreigners being allowed into the UK.”
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party.
Consider the way Mr Robinson covered Ukip’s campaign launch three weeks ago. He did not seriously attempt to address its policies, as might have been expected. Instead, he tackled Mr Farage about the fact that he employed his German wife as his secretary. This was surely a story that Mr Robinson could and would have left to a junior reporter if he had been dealing with any other party.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
Err? No idea how you concluded that logic argument from what I said. If both partners of a marriage could speak each others languages to a reasonable level (as I believe to be the case with the Farages) then I would think beyond doubt really that both languages are used from time to time in the household whether they lived in Germany or here.
And if they were not then something is a bit odd. Not sure why the interviewer (if he did, not seen it) brought it up or why Farage (if he was) was so defensive about it
A sensible entry point to a debate on immigration is no doubt challenging. Where UKIP IMO suffers is that they are not (yet) saying we want to do this on health, that on defence, something else on transport and the following on immigration.
They are saying IMMIGRATION IMMIGRATION IMMIGRATION...
And hence the similarity between UKIP those other two parties. Who knew or knows what the BNP policy on corporation tax is? The problem UKIP faces is that they seem obsessed. Everything Farage said in that interview was fine IMO - he answered the questions but he didn't address (and O'Brien didn't press) the central theme - UKIP has become a natural home for those who see immigration as their overriding concern. Their only concern perhaps. That is the danger.
And, for the nth time, having been in principle a supporter of UKIP's right to have the immigration (and EU) debate, looking at their current campaign leaflets really shocked me. It put them big style on the wrong side of the line between debate and dog whistle ugly politics.
And for the (n+1)th time it is why I am keen that they move on and broaden their approach to other pressing political matters.
Because if they don't then the suspicion will remain that they quite like that association. You cannot produce an election leaflet and conduct a campaign which only mentions immigration and then wonder why everyone screams racist. Today you just can't.
I understand the distinctions you make between BNP/UKIP but really Sam, do you think the bulk of the electorate get the nuances?
Leaving aside the rights and wrongs, they do have a political dilemma cum opportunity. They have lots of people who agree with them on immigration and maybe the EU but on little else. We see it here on pb - the resemblances between Mike K, Isam and Richard Tyndall are really hard to spot. This isn't to criticise any of them, They're just different.
Now UKIP may be able to maximise its vote by talking obsessively about immigration and the EU. Or they can start saying what they think about other things. But what policy on taxes on the wealthy, NHS privatisation or free schools will necessarily appeal to everyone poised to vote for them on immigration? So they may deepen but shrink their support if they start making other choices, and few politicians volunteer to shrink their support.
As isam observes, it's an EU election so the issue arises less. But the dilemma won't go away on May 23.
No, he has a very, very short memory, which doesn't seem to go back as far as the sustained attack and misrepresentation over Maria Miller, let alone Peter Cruddas.
Only if you've never met any people for whom English is not their first language.
To go back to the anecdote you so swiftly discounted, the Mum speaks Swedish to their daughter as a first choice, the father speaks Portugese, they speak to each other in English and the kid replies in whatever language she feels like.
I would be surprised if Mrs Farage did NOT speak German to her kids.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
Not weird. There are lots of reasons for using both languages, not least that its good for the kids future opportunities to be fluent in two languages.
From a selfish point of view, as a parent you probably want to be able to communicate with your kids in your own mother tongue, too.
[Why can so many people migrate here? Sorry, I dont get it. Because British people are so multi lingual? I would have though it was because English is so widely spoken abroad]
It's a Cosmopolitan Conspiracy. You should try towing the party line more. 2 languages is better than 1
No, he has a very, very short memory, which doesn't seem to go back as far as the sustained attack and misrepresentation over Maria Miller, let alone Peter Cruddas.
The press may deal with individuals unfairly in certain situations (though I'm not going to get into the Maria Miller debate again). But it has never been so unfair to an entire party as it has to UKIP. Seriously, give me one example from any of the three big parties' election campaigns over the last twenty years where the BBC's main coverage of it has just been about a gotcha question for their leader.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
If as all the kippers are adamant the interview was a triumph for the messiah, why are they spending so much time defending his comments. FWIW, I thought it was pretty much a score draw. Pretty bland stuff all round.
Only if you define "access" to the single market very narrowly. Korea and Mexico have access to the single market, although they're not fully signed up members. The UK could do something similar. Yes, there would be a small cost to the fraction of EU trade that falls between free trade and single market issues, but it would be tiny compared to FTAs we could sign elsewhere.
There I am sure you are wrong. The bit of access to the Single Market which is of vital importance to us, but of zero importance to Korea or Mexico, is the market for services.
In any case I don't really understand your premise. You seem to think being in the EU locks us out of trade outside the EU, yet the EU has the biggest share of world trade of any economic bloc - even more than the US - and, of individual countries within it, Germany seems to have no trouble trading with the rest of the world. We don't need to leave the EU to increase our trade elsewhere - it's a false dichotomy.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
Not weird. There are lots of reasons for using both languages, not least that its good for the kids future opportunities to be fluent in two languages.
From a selfish point of view, as a parent you probably want to be able to communicate with your kids in your own mother tongue, too.
As an English/German couple with bilingual kids, that is exactly how it is in our household.
No, he has a very, very short memory, which doesn't seem to go back as far as the sustained attack and misrepresentation over Maria Miller, let alone Peter Cruddas.
The press may deal with individuals unfairly in certain situations (though I'm not going to get into the Maria Miller debate again). But it has never been so unfair to an entire party as it has to UKIP. Seriously, give me one example from any of the three big parties' election campaigns over the last twenty years where the BBC's main coverage of it has just been about a gotcha question for their leader.
"Just some bigoted woman"
Edit: Although that only ran for 2 or 3 days, not the entire campaign.
The press may deal with individuals unfairly in certain situations (though I'm not going to get into the Maria Miller debate again). But it has never been so unfair to an entire party as it has to UKIP. Seriously, give me one example from any of the three big parties' election campaigns over the last twenty years where the BBC's main coverage of it has just been about a gotcha question for their leader.
C'mon, that's all they ever do, for any party except Labour, and even that can't be relied on.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
Err? No idea how you concluded that logic argument from what I said. If both partners of a marriage could speak each others languages to a reasonable level (as I believe to be the case with the Farages) then I would think beyond doubt really that both languages are used from time to time in the household whether they lived in Germany or here.
And if they were not then something is a bit odd. Not sure why the interviewer (if he did, not seen it) brought it up or why Farage (if he was) was so defensive about it
Farage said plenty of kids in East London didnt speak English (incorrect) O'Brien said they could speak English as well as Bengali (correct) Farage said ok I meant not their first language that they speak at home (correct) O'Brien said but your kids can speak German (correct) Farage said Yes but they speak English (correct) O'Brien said that means they are the same as your children (incorrect)
The distinction Farage was making being that whole areas of East London are inhabited by people that dont speak English as a first language, signs are in Bengali, etc etc
Wheras Farages kids can speak German, but their primary language is English
If you think he was making it all up and in fact his family all speak German when they shut the front door, and are no different to Bengali familys that barely speak Engliah unless they are in a public place, then fair enough, no one can know for certain
Further interlocutory applications in Rowland v Mitchell MP and Mitchell MP v News Group Newspapers Ltd will be heard by the Honourable Mr Justice Tugendhat on Monday morning. The longer this drags on...
[Why can so many people migrate here? Sorry, I dont get it. Because British people are so multi lingual? I would have though it was because English is so widely spoken abroad]
There was a clip of the Euro presidential debate on the Daily Politics. 3 of the 5 candidates were speaking English
Only if you've never met any people for whom English is not their first language.
To go back to the anecdote you so swiftly discounted, the Mum speaks Swedish to their daughter as a first choice, the father speaks Portugese, they speak to each other in English and the kid replies in whatever language she feels like.
I would be surprised if Mrs Farage did NOT speak German to her kids.
No, he has a very, very short memory, which doesn't seem to go back as far as the sustained attack and misrepresentation over Maria Miller, let alone Peter Cruddas.
The press may deal with individuals unfairly in certain situations (though I'm not going to get into the Maria Miller debate again). But it has never been so unfair to an entire party as it has to UKIP. Seriously, give me one example from any of the three big parties' election campaigns over the last twenty years where the BBC's main coverage of it has just been about a gotcha question for their leader.
Dry your eyes - this attack has boosted the Ukip profile and vote.
I cant imagine Nigel Farage speaks to his children in German, and I doubt the rest speak German to each other when he is not there either
I think exactly the opposite
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
I find that extremely hard to believe. It makes no sense at all
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
I would find it very hard to believe in a British /German marriage that German is not spoken at all in the household. I would also find it strange and a bit pedantic if this was the case.
So if you went to live in Russia, married a Russian, were fluent in Russian yourself, and had two kids that went to a Russian speaking school, you would all speak English at home.
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
If as all the kippers are adamant the interview was a triumph for the messiah, why are they spending so much time defending his comments. FWIW, I thought it was pretty much a score draw. Pretty bland stuff all round.
All I did was to point out that the interviewers main two points were based on falsehoods
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
[Why can so many people migrate here? Sorry, I dont get it. Because British people are so multi lingual? I would have though it was because English is so widely spoken abroad]
There was a clip of the Euro presidential debate on the Daily Politics. 3 of the 5 candidates were speaking English
Labour are and should be worried because they're not fools. Somehow they've managed to get themselves into something of a pickle. If Ed doesn't work out then who, really, so they have to call on. EdB and Mrs EdB are capable, Hattie has her moments, Darling nearly once stood up to Brown. All of these though are dangerously tainted with the 'yesterdays people' tag.
The new blood though isn't entirely convincing - Tristram is just a kid who's trying to rebel against his Tory parents (or so it seems), and Chukka has a quite incredible enemy-base for someone that's done nothing (I don't know why).
Watching Question Time last night Caroline Flint seemed almost good against that background. McVey did quite well too.
Following on from QT and watching 'This Week' it struck me how isolated the teaching profession has become as the last bastion of the extreme left. No wonder the concept of calling them 'Sir' is evaporating. They seem collectively to have adopted a mindset that means I'd barely give them the time of day.
Labour are and should be worried because they're not fools. Somehow they've managed to get themselves into something of a pickle. If Ed doesn't work out then who, really, so they have to call on. EdB and Mrs EdB are capable, Hattie has her moments, Darling nearly once stood up to Brown. All of these though are dangerously tainted with the 'yesterdays people' tag.
The new blood though isn't entirely convincing - Tristram is just a kid who's trying to rebel against his Tory parents (or so it seems), and Chukka has a quite incredible enemy-base for someone that's done nothing (I don't know why).
Watching Question Time last night Caroline Flint seemed almost good against that background. McVey did quite well too.
Following on from QT and watching 'This Week' it struck me how isolated the teaching profession has become as the last bastion of the extreme left. No wonder the concept of calling them 'Sir' is evaporating. They seem collectively to have adopted a mindset that means I'd barely give them the time of day.
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Solar power'... 'join the green economy' ... 'hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
Labour are and should be worried because they're not fools. Somehow they've managed to get themselves into something of a pickle. If Ed doesn't work out then who, really, so they have to call on. EdB and Mrs EdB are capable, Hattie has her moments, Darling nearly once stood up to Brown. All of these though are dangerously tainted with the 'yesterdays people' tag.
The new blood though isn't entirely convincing - Tristram is just a kid who's trying to rebel against his Tory parents (or so it seems), and Chukka has a quite incredible enemy-base for someone that's done nothing (I don't know why).
Watching Question Time last night Caroline Flint seemed almost good against that background. McVey did quite well too.
Following on from QT and watching 'This Week' it struck me how isolated the teaching profession has become as the last bastion of the extreme left. No wonder the concept of calling them 'Sir' is evaporating. They seem collectively to have adopted a mindset that means I'd barely give them the time of day.
Chuka has got enemies because he allowed himself to be portrayed as the British Obama with not a shred of evidence for his talent or any achievements. It means that he is always going to under achieve, he should have worked out at the start that it would be an albatross.
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
A protest party has to offer policies that will appeal to their local protesters.
Only if you've never met any people for whom English is not their first language.
To go back to the anecdote you so swiftly discounted, the Mum speaks Swedish to their daughter as a first choice, the father speaks Portugese, they speak to each other in English and the kid replies in whatever language she feels like.
I would be surprised if Mrs Farage did NOT speak German to her kids.
Would you really, my mind is at rest
The first language of one of my grandmothers was Welsh. Not sure about my grandfather, although my father spoke and wrote it. Once he moved to England he rarely used it.
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
A protest party has to offer policies that will appeal to their local protesters.
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
A protest party has to offer policies that will appeal to their local protesters.
It worked well for the LDs for many years...
Yes but then what happens is that everyone will look to point out where the party is saying the polar opposite in different areas.
Hi all. Have returned home from a pre assessment of removal of cataracts in my left eye; My right eye was done in January. I will have this op on June 5th.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
A protest party has to offer policies that will appeal to their local protesters.
It worked well for the LDs for many years...
Yes but then what happens is that everyone will look to point out where the party is saying the polar opposite in different areas.
UKIP tried that trick in Wythenshawe, I wrote a strongly worded letter of complaint!
So far as I can see pretty much all the Electoral Commission has achieved in its 13 years is to preside over a monumental increase in postal voting fraud and to take a legal case against UKIP some years back that would have bankrupted us on a technicality had the Supreme Court not overturned a ruling in the nick of time.
Comments
I think you should turn your hand to alliterative verse. You can use Middle English, for middle England.
Financial regulation is the most important sticking point, and likely to be tricky. My view is that, if we can't make good progress on that, we're probably better off Out.
Either way, though, we shouldn't kid ourselves that leaving is a cost-free option which gives us all upside and no downside, or that we can negotiate access to the Single Market without buying back in to some of the constraints which the Kippers will think we've just freed ourselves of.
But the main thing people are concerned about with the EU is unfiltered immigration. Benefits tourism is a tiny part of that. Even if you stop it entirely, you will still have hundreds of thousands of EU migrants coming here every year, which is far too much for most people in this country. How is the renegotiation going to be enough to satisfy those ordinary voters if you don't address that?
Let's dance with our hankies like Morris
As joyous as the works of Horace,
Before we go go grab a coat
And march off to vote,
Not for Nigel, but for Dave and for Boris!
Edited extra bit: ahem, almost certainly my mistake.
The problem with writing them quick
Is the end product can be quite sick.
As green as a hippy,
With words wrong, and slippy,
That make me look like a pr!ck
With a penchant for porn
Said "if there's a God",
This poem will rhyme!
But yeah, day off
However, I don't think this matters very much, because I don't think concern over EU immigration is as salient an issue as people make out. Inasmuch as immigration is driving UKIP support, it's actually non-EU immigration which is the most emotive IMO. The Romanians and Bulgarians are being used as a proxy for non-EU immigration, which of course has absolutely zilch to do with being in the EU.
I could be wrong, of course, but, as I've said before, and as I have bet with Richard T, I don't think an In/Out referendum is winnable by the Out side. The threat of it is useful as a bargaining counter, but, in the end, we'll stay In. The only question, therefore, is how much reform we can achieve.
And I suddenly found it quite odd,
That I barked and and I brayed,
But no impact it made,
For he doesn't exist, the old Sod.
"Labour has a year to make its policies heard and believed. Miliband has done well in laying out ideas that resonate: growth for the few is not national growth at all; new jobs that are mostly low-paid and insecure are no basis for economic strength. But credibility still has to be won, and that needs his whole shadow cabinet to step up. Some worry that Miliband's agenda isn't business-friendly, but business will never even be polite until it believes Labour is going to win. Miliband's entire team should be a formidable phalanx hammering out these popular policies until every voter can say what Labour stands for. Axelrod has work to do."
Hodges has a certain form in this area.
Keeping writing, and PB alive.
Quick now, change the rhyme,
For a very short time,
And jerk back, conclude with a jive.
People complaining about immigration sometimes cite problems that leaving the EU would do nothing to solve (islamism etc.).
I've often wondered if 'getting control of the country back' is only a first step, for some.
Did you not see what I did there?
A spring tide is to the seasons as gay marriage is to the floods. Thus, I introduced a flaw into the composition of the haiku to parody the flaw in the UKIPper thinking of the voice heard in the haiku.
Do keep up - there could be a question about this in the paper and it's May already.
That the candidate who made awful comments about gay people was a councillor (he isnt and this one is actually a lie I think.. pretty sure he was a candidate at last years local elections, and isnt this year.. O Brien just made it up to turn the pressure up)
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/05/03/ukip-exercise-anti-gay-candidate-john-sullivan-fails-to-win-gloucestershire-newent-ward/
That Farage's children are no different to children whose first language isn't English (they are because their first language is English, thats the point)
Makes one shudder.
I don't know either way, but their mother is German. Their 'mother tongue' is literally German.
She may have spoken to them in English first as babies, but I think that is unlikely
I knew a couple (Swedish mother, Brazilian father) raising their daughter in the USA, who spoke all three languages 'natively'. Would you say her first language was English?
Maybe they can speak German, thats not the point.
It isnt the same as the example you gave
ni-je-ru-san-wa,
ueta kudamono
sugu toreru
(very poor. I am but a novice).
and, for now, oyasumi nasai!
Ed Miliband has promised to listen to voters who are concerned about immigration but refuses to set a target for the number of foreigners being allowed into the UK.”
Hmm, fool me once, shame on you, etc..!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10836453/Ed-Miliband-Labour-wont-turn-our-backs-on-people-worried-about-immigration.html
It was mentioned in the interview that he speaks German IIRC. In fact they even discussed his family speaking German (just not on the train)
Foxes promise not to 'turn our backs' on chickens worried about being eaten....
It would if they lived in Germany.
I dont think he did say that in the interview. He said his wife speaks German to people in Germany.
Lab 44(+2)
Con 31(-3)
Lib 11(+2)
Kip 10(-1)
Very well, down to you, seems very weird to me
No political party in modern history – not even Neil Kinnock’s Labour in 1987 – has come under such sustained attack and misrepresentation. Mr Kinnock at least had The Guardian and the Daily Mirror; Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title, and several papers are running vendettas against him. Mr Kinnock was treated reasonably fairly by the broadcast media. This is not the case with Mr Farage: consider the lacerating contempt shown towards him by Channel 4 News and its chief presenter, Jon Snow. Nick Robinson, the BBC’s political editor, has also abandoned his usual fairness when dealing with the party.
Consider the way Mr Robinson covered Ukip’s campaign launch three weeks ago. He did not seriously attempt to address its policies, as might have been expected. Instead, he tackled Mr Farage about the fact that he employed his German wife as his secretary. This was surely a story that Mr Robinson could and would have left to a junior reporter if he had been dealing with any other party.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10830882/British-politics-is-broken-and-only-Nigel-Farage-is-profiting.html
Err? No idea how you concluded that logic argument from what I said. If both partners of a marriage could speak each others languages to a reasonable level (as I believe to be the case with the Farages) then I would think beyond doubt really that both languages are used from time to time in the household whether they lived in Germany or here.
And if they were not then something is a bit odd. Not sure why the interviewer (if he did, not seen it) brought it up or why Farage (if he was) was so defensive about it
Now UKIP may be able to maximise its vote by talking obsessively about immigration and the EU. Or they can start saying what they think about other things. But what policy on taxes on the wealthy, NHS privatisation or free schools will necessarily appeal to everyone poised to vote for them on immigration? So they may deepen but shrink their support if they start making other choices, and few politicians volunteer to shrink their support.
As isam observes, it's an EU election so the issue arises less. But the dilemma won't go away on May 23.
is that with my London bet
I didn't wage more.
To go back to the anecdote you so swiftly discounted, the Mum speaks Swedish to their daughter as a first choice, the father speaks Portugese, they speak to each other in English and the kid replies in whatever language she feels like.
I would be surprised if Mrs Farage did NOT speak German to her kids.
From a selfish point of view, as a parent you probably want to be able to communicate with your kids in your own mother tongue, too.
It's a Cosmopolitan Conspiracy. You should try towing the party line more. 2 languages is better than 1
In any case I don't really understand your premise. You seem to think being in the EU locks us out of trade outside the EU, yet the EU has the biggest share of world trade of any economic bloc - even more than the US - and, of individual countries within it, Germany seems to have no trouble trading with the rest of the world. We don't need to leave the EU to increase our trade elsewhere - it's a false dichotomy.
Edit: Although that only ran for 2 or 3 days, not the entire campaign.
O'Brien said they could speak English as well as Bengali (correct)
Farage said ok I meant not their first language that they speak at home (correct)
O'Brien said but your kids can speak German (correct)
Farage said Yes but they speak English (correct)
O'Brien said that means they are the same as your children (incorrect)
The distinction Farage was making being that whole areas of East London are inhabited by people that dont speak English as a first language, signs are in Bengali, etc etc
Wheras Farages kids can speak German, but their primary language is English
If you think he was making it all up and in fact his family all speak German when they shut the front door, and are no different to Bengali familys that barely speak Engliah unless they are in a public place, then fair enough, no one can know for certain
The 2010 Lib Dem in my office is away on hols for the elections, but if she could vote it would definitely be for UKIP in the Euros
She is undecided either Lib Dem or UKIP at GE2015
*snigger*
All I did was to point out that the interviewers main two points were based on falsehoods
I agree, pretty much a score draw.
Now to business. To say that UKIP is talking only about immigration is nonsense. The Lab/Lib/Con artist may want you to think so but it's not true. Even for the Euros we are talking about jobs and defence and trade.
For the Local elections we are discussing a lot more. For example below is the UKIP manifesto for Richmond and Twickenham in London. Have a butchers; theres a lot more than immigration mentioned there:
http://www.ukiprt.org./files/3313/9454/3605/UKIP_RT_Manifesto.pdf
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/16/poll-jitters-axelrod-labour-miliband
I fear she's going into the denial phase. Next will be anger - Watch out for that, it'll be a lot of fun!
Odds on Henry Reilly of #UKIP winning a European seat have been seriously slashed in a matter of hours on Paddy Power. From 50/1 down to 8/1
http://order-order.com/2014/05/16/caption-contest-winner-18/
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/476384/Beware-of-cheap-and-devious-imitations-Farage-on-Friday-warns-over-ballot-box-tactics
The new blood though isn't entirely convincing - Tristram is just a kid who's trying to rebel against his Tory parents (or so it seems), and Chukka has a quite incredible enemy-base for someone that's done nothing (I don't know why).
Watching Question Time last night Caroline Flint seemed almost good against that background. McVey did quite well too.
Following on from QT and watching 'This Week' it struck me how isolated the teaching profession has become as the last bastion of the extreme left. No wonder the concept of calling them 'Sir' is evaporating. They seem collectively to have adopted a mindset that means I'd barely give them the time of day.
Those Richmond Kippers seem a bit off-messsage - surely Kippers don't go for all that green crap? 'Solar power'... 'join the green economy' ... 'hydro-electric power generation at Teddington lock'?? Did they lift that from the Greens?
It worked well for the LDs for many years...
Once he moved to England he rarely used it.
So far as I can see pretty much all the Electoral Commission has achieved in its 13 years is to preside over a monumental increase in postal voting fraud and to take a legal case against UKIP some years back that would have bankrupted us on a technicality had the Supreme Court not overturned a ruling in the nick of time.
Which case is he talking about?