In a strange sort of way it suits UKIP not to have any MPs because it helps to keep that feeling of grievance going which is one of the main selling points for their potential supporters. Also it means they're automatically exempt from Westminster scandals like expenses.
Good evening. Not to worry AndyJS, we want MP's and well get them.
Northern Ireland Assembly elections are moved from 2015 to 2016 as they already did for Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly.
When are we expecting the Euros to be moved, Andrea?
I distinctly saw a glint in van Rompuy's eye when he was taking a coffee in La Grande-Place and reading about Nige's electoral prospects in his copy of New Europe.
I noted that, but Begg did admit that he was (partly) responsible for the 3 million jobs figure. To his credit he did say that he had come up with it years (a decade?) ago, and that it was very vague, to within an order of magnitude. He also mentioned that there were many other factors and variables at play. he did seem rather obsessed with the car industry, though.
All in all I think it was a reasonable program, if only because it showed the uncertainty that lies behind any figures given by the pro- or anti- camp.
At the end of the day, the result of any referendum will lie in the hearts, rather than the minds, of the voters. Basically because they will be bombarded with such contradictory and unverifiable information. It'll end up being a matter of what the voter wants to believe, with a heady mixture of fear built in.
The same will doubtless be true for the Scottish Independence referendum.
So in effect on a programme that is supposed to be about having an unbiased look at the numbers people are quoting on various issues, the person who came up with an utterly unrealistic argument a decade ago based purely on his own political viewpoint was asked to adjudicate on whether or not those numbers were valid. No one else was asked to give an alternative opinion because the programme is supposed to be about unbiased assessments and no mention was made of the fact that this man is still an active Europhile who wants to see Britain as part of a federal EU.
How on earth is that in any way supposed to advance the discussion or help people to understand who is being honest about the relative cost of staying or leaving?
As I said it is was a thoroughly dishonest programme.
Yep, that about sums it up. But I disagree with your conclusion. And I'm not exactly a Europhile...
South Thanet at 8/1 looks the best bet of those listed.
I'd hesitate to bet on anything for which someone knows or will know the outcome for a certainty. If PP accept significant stakes, that's Farage's deposit paid for. No law against insider knowledge in betting.
Speaking of knowledge, I'm going to Beijing and Shanghai next month. I try not to spend more than £90-£100/night on hotels and I'm not at all fussy or sensitive to noise, but I do want good wifi and would like international optins at breakfast. Any recommendations? not sure where my meetings are so anywhere fairly central is OK.
I don't know much about Beijing. Haven't been there since 1990. But in Shanghai [ Pudong ], you should be able to get RMB 450 - 650. Try Radisson amongst International chains.
Yep, that about sums it up. But I disagree with your conclusion. And I'm not exactly a Europhile...
Let people listen and make up their own minds.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Yep, that about sums it up. But I disagree with your conclusion. And I'm not exactly a Europhile...
Let people listen and make up their own minds.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Just a few months ago, a presenter on Radio 5 Live wailed: "Oh, all the banks are such money-grabbing evil institutions! Is there anywhere safe I can safe I can put my money?"
To which a minion replied: "Well, there is the wonderful CoOp bank."
As MickPork would say: Chortle.
We have money in the CoOp bank. The service, and especially the Internet banking, has been, and is, abysmal.
When we were buying our house a year ago, we needed a statement signed by the bank. The CoOp branch told us they did not do print outs of statements for customers.
Yep, that about sums it up. But I disagree with your conclusion. And I'm not exactly a Europhile...
Let people listen and make up their own minds.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
I don't expect a program to go into the exact details of a contributor's history. The fact he had originally come up with the figure was mentioned, which was pertinent. And what was discussed was relevant and interesting.
The order of magnitude disclaimer made me laugh, if only for what that would mean for the high-end projection: 30 million jobs lost!
The thing that did come out of it is that, as is often the case with politicians of all stripes, Clegg misrepresented data.
I'd like to see all statistics mentioned by politicians to come with deviation bars. :-)
Just a few months ago, a presenter on Radio 5 Live wailed: "Oh, all the banks are such money-grabbing evil institutions! Is there anywhere safe I can safe I can put my money?"
To which a minion replied: "Well, there is the wonderful CoOp bank."
As MickPork would say: Chortle.
We have money in the CoOp bank. The service, and especially the Internet banking, has been, and is, abysmal.
When we were buying our house a year ago, we needed a statement signed by the bank. The CoOp branch told us they did not do print outs of statements for customers.
What great service.
Sod the plebs!!! No wonder they are the money arm of. Labour.
Yep, that about sums it up. But I disagree with your conclusion. And I'm not exactly a Europhile...
Let people listen and make up their own minds.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Did he mention the 18 billion in, er, protection money?
Not really; it was actually (in my mind at least) a reasonable discussion of the uncertainties of such projections. Leaving aside the amount given / amount returned figures, the real issue is on things like trade and jobs, and you really need a crystal ball to predict those with any accuracy.
I stand by what I said in my first post: it is worth a listen.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Just a few months ago, a presenter on Radio 5 Live wailed: "Oh, all the banks are such money-grabbing evil institutions! Is there anywhere safe I can safe I can put my money?"
To which a minion replied: "Well, there is the wonderful CoOp bank."
As MickPork would say: Chortle.
We have money in the CoOp bank. The service, and especially the Internet banking, has been, and is, abysmal.
When we were buying our house a year ago, we needed a statement signed by the bank. The CoOp branch told us they did not do print outs of statements for customers.
What great service.
Sod the plebs!!! No wonder they are the money arm of. Labour.
The Labour Party owes the Co-op Bank several million pounds. This is the time for Labour's multi-millionaire elite to put their hands into their own deep pockets and clear the party's debts.It would be a real shame if Labour got a reputation as a party of welchers.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Never has an organisation been wrong about something so often as the LSE have been about Europe.
If you take that view what about the Conservative party and Europe, from Heath through Thatcher to Major via the ERM, the single market and free movement. Seems silly to be blaming the outliers when the driving force was the Tory Party.
Although this was primarily a economic union; it has only been in the mid/late 1990s it has moved rapidly towards a political union.
It's a hell of a thing being in the US again for the first time since last autumn. The place seems to be buzzing. I was in Dallas, now in Boston - everyone seems to agree that corporate America is beginning to spend once more anmd that deals are being done. This truly is a remarkable country.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Never has an organisation been wrong about something so often as the LSE have been about Europe.
If you take that view what about the Conservative party and Europe, from Heath through Thatcher to Major via the ERM, the single market and free movement. Seems silly to be blaming the outliers when the driving force was the Tory Party.
Do I detect tim edging towards a eurosceptic position under the cover of an attack on the Tory record ?
Friday evening and another debate on Europe - wonderful !! I suppose if we're going to argue about the (whatever figure you choose to believe from £4 billion to £20 billion that we pay to the EU every year) amount we pay to the EU, we ought to reflect on the £30+ billion we pay in interest on our debts. Indeed, not paying down the debt, just paying the interest. That's duckonomics, frantic activity just to keep afloat.
Interest is a funny old thing and I note some interesting figures on housing debt which make me wonder what the impact of any sudden rise in interest rates might be. I presume it won't be long before someone comes along and claims that a vote for the other side will lead to much higher interest rates which will hit families (the families, won't someone please think of the families ?!!) and the housing market.
It's a hell of a thing being in the US again for the first time since last autumn. The place seems to be buzzing. I was in Dallas, now in Boston - everyone seems to agree that corporate America is beginning to spend once more anmd that deals are being done. This truly is a remarkable country.
SO , following your deep conviction that Romney would handily beat Obama I find it hard to take your US commentaries seriously.
People can only make up their minds if they have all the relevant information. Begg was presented as effectively a neutral observer who confirmed that the figures he had presented a decade ago were still valid.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
Never has an organisation been wrong about something so often as the LSE have been about Europe.
If you take that view what about the Conservative party and Europe, from Heath through Thatcher to Major via the ERM, the single market and free movement. Seems silly to be blaming the outliers when the driving force was the Tory Party.
Although this was primarily a economic union; it has only been in the mid/late 1990s it has moved rapidly towards a political union.
If you're naive I supposed that could be an argument. Difficult to square with Thatcher Lawson Howe and Major taking the pound into the ERM
Exchange rate bands have a long and semi-distinguished history, pre-dating the EU by many years
It's a hell of a thing being in the US again for the first time since last autumn. The place seems to be buzzing. I was in Dallas, now in Boston - everyone seems to agree that corporate America is beginning to spend once more anmd that deals are being done. This truly is a remarkable country.
SO , following your deep conviction that Romney would handily beat Obama I find it hard to take your US commentaries seriously.
Well, as I have no interest in you, we are probably best off ignoring each other then.
Is it possible that we are underestimating the political implications of the Co Op story? If the bank were to go into administration then the administrator would almost certainly call up the Labour party's loans. How would they pay them? Who else would be stupid enough to lend such a bunch of economic incompetents money?
If this story develops as rcs1000 is predicting the Labour party is going to face a financial crisis as severe as the one they gave to the UK as a whole. They could even end up insolvent. The irony of that would be truly delicious.
"Voters believe Ed Miliband’s Labour party is ‘nice but dim’ and not capable of taking the tough decisions needed as Prime Minister, damning new polling reveals.
The Labour leader is seen weaker, less charismatic and worse in a crisis than David Cameron, as pollsters warn he will have to ‘defy history’ to take power after just one term in opposition.
But the most damaging revelation is that voters see Mr Miliband as more like Harry Enfield’s character Tim Nice But Dim than a future Prime Minister."
A great article as ever, Henry, but I'm increasingly coming to the view that Labour are headed for defeat, even without the boundary changes. A four-point lead (or three-point lead with Rallings and Thrasher) in the local elections was just nowhere near good enough.
Lucky EdM? Well he doesn't have to walk 20 miles to a food bank, unlike some of the cases in the Henry Manson Foodbank Storybook**, and unlike all those grobesities in the Morrison's cafe in Blyth when I had a coffee on Wednesday.
"But the most damaging revelation is that voters see Mr Miliband as more like Harry Enfield’s character Tim Nice But Dim than a future Prime Minister."
A fairly characteristic distortion from the Mail of what that poll actually said.
"But the most damaging revelation is that voters see Mr Miliband as more like Harry Enfield’s character Tim Nice But Dim than a future Prime Minister."
A fairly characteristic distortion from the Mail of what that poll actually said.
To be fair to the Mail, the headline is misleading, but they do publish the stats that show pretty clearly that, according to those who were surveyed, on every measure Labour is more in tune with the interests of ordinary voters than the Tories are.
"But the most damaging revelation is that voters see Mr Miliband as more like Harry Enfield’s character Tim Nice But Dim than a future Prime Minister."
A fairly characteristic distortion from the Mail of what that poll actually said.
He seems like a nice enough chap to me, and certainly of (at least) equal intelligence to Cameron, but for whatever reason Middle England just aren't going for him.
While we're in the business of slagging off I'd just like to say that I find it a little disturbing that anybody ever takes the Mail seriously for anything. There, that covers it I think.
"While we're in the business of slagging off I'd just like to say that I find it a little disturbing that anybody ever takes the Mail seriously for anything"
Come now. Its coverage of celebrity cellulite is second-to-none.
If not to the Blairites when he had the sheer cheek to go up against his brother and win. Some of them will never forgive him for that. Dan Hodges certainly won't though he is admittedly an imbecile.
It appears the entire SNP group of councillors on Argyll and Bute council are now Independents following a decision to form a joint administration with the Lib Dems and Conservatives which has not been approved by the national party .
It appears the entire SNP group of councillors on Argyll and Bute council are now Independents following a decision to form a joint administration with the Lib Dems and Conservatives which has not been approved by the national party .
Not for long.
SNP suspends Argyll and Bute group
The SNP group that leads Argyll and Bute Council has been temporarily suspended by the party over an error.
The group announced on Thursday that the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats would be joining the administration.
But because the deal had not first been approved by the party's national executive, the group has, technically, been suspended.
However, it is widely expected the deal will receive approval.
An SNP spokesman said: "The policy democratically passed by the SNP's National Council in 2007 requires our council groups to seek approval of the party's National Executive Committee before entering into formal coalition arrangements.
"The group has not followed that procedure, and therefore as a matter of course has been suspended in the meantime.
It appears the entire SNP group of councillors on Argyll and Bute council are now Independents following a decision to form a joint administration with the Lib Dems and Conservatives which has not been approved by the national party .
Not for long.
SNP suspends Argyll and Bute group
The SNP group that leads Argyll and Bute Council has been temporarily suspended by the party over an error.
The group announced on Thursday that the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats would be joining the administration.
But because the deal had not first been approved by the party's national executive, the group has, technically, been suspended.
However, it is widely expected the deal will receive approval.
An SNP spokesman said: "The policy democratically passed by the SNP's National Council in 2007 requires our council groups to seek approval of the party's National Executive Committee before entering into formal coalition arrangements.
"The group has not followed that procedure, and therefore as a matter of course has been suspended in the meantime.
"Henry G Manson on how the Tories have made GE2015 easier for Ed"
Let's not be stingy. Clegg did more than his fair share on that score. Clegg is the one primarily responsible for both the AV loss and boundary changes getting booted. That the tories are also implicated should not take away Clegg's strategic genius on that front.
It's a hell of a thing being in the US again for the first time since last autumn. The place seems to be buzzing. I was in Dallas, now in Boston - everyone seems to agree that corporate America is beginning to spend once more anmd that deals are being done. This truly is a remarkable country.
Most of the world is now clearly in recovery. Indeed most of the world, especially China, never went into recession, and has kept right on booming. Even Blighty now seems to be flickering into life.
It's just continental Europe that's screwed.
This is where I am, right now, inland southern Portugal. The sense of torpor and melancholy is palpable.
Last year in Portugal you could sense there was no cash - the taxi driver who happily took part of the fare in 1, 2 and 5c pieces when a few years back he would have thrown them back at you.
A tweet from the Express that hasn't been posted by the usual suspect. I wonder why...
@oflynnexpress: Alistair Darling says hardship, unemp etc in eurozone is caused more by "austerity" than the euro. Thought he knew more economics than that.
I reckon UKIP supporters tend to prefer eccentric nonsense of the sort Lynam just came up with.... Just as Labour supporters get off on stuff like this...
Is it possible that we are underestimating the political implications of the Co Op story? If the bank were to go into administration then the administrator would almost certainly call up the Labour party's loans. How would they pay them? Who else would be stupid enough to lend such a bunch of economic incompetents money?
If this story develops as rcs1000 is predicting the Labour party is going to face a financial crisis as severe as the one they gave to the UK as a whole. They could even end up insolvent. The irony of that would be truly delicious.
Just as well as I can pretty much guarantee they won't get it.
If Labour were to face a serious financial crisis would there be a temptation to cut and run for an election? Just a thought.
There might be a temptation but saner heads would prevail. The public wouldn't appreciate taking partisan advantage of a crisis in Labour's finances to the extent of foisting an election on the country. Better to let months and months of crisis hollow Labour out then run an election at the normal time with one of the themes being how the unions were buying Labour's policies (as the unions would almost certainly come to Labour's aid anyway).
The Telegraph story is about Shaun Bailey. 'Lovely detail in our @ShaunBaileyUK story. Top pollster asked No10 aides what kept them awake. After a long silence, one said: 'School fees''. Arf.
Is it possible that we are underestimating the political implications of the Co Op story? If the bank were to go into administration then the administrator would almost certainly call up the Labour party's loans. How would they pay them? Who else would be stupid enough to lend such a bunch of economic incompetents money?
If this story develops as rcs1000 is predicting the Labour party is going to face a financial crisis as severe as the one they gave to the UK as a whole. They could even end up insolvent. The irony of that would be truly delicious.
Just as well as I can pretty much guarantee they won't get it.
If Labour were to face a serious financial crisis would there be a temptation to cut and run for an election? Just a thought.
There might be a temptation but saner heads would prevail. The public wouldn't appreciate taking partisan advantage of a crisis in Labour's finances to the extent of foisting an election on the country. Better to let months and months of crisis hollow Labour out then run an election at the normal time with one of the themes being how the unions were buying Labour's policies (as the unions would almost certainly come to Labour's aid anyway).
Labour's finances are in a much better state now than they were in the run-up to the 2010 election.
The Telegraph story is about Shaun Bailey. 'Lovely detail in our @ShaunBaileyUK story. Top pollster asked No10 aides what kept them awake. After a long silence, one said: 'School fees''. Arf.
"Arf", Carola?
That just shows how out of touch 99% of the population are.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
First time I had met this guy (I reviewed the guest list, but it was the team who put it together). To be fair I'm probably being a little harsh, but when I asked him what interested him he spent 20 minutes telling me about how he wanted to buy all the Ghanese tribal artefacts in the UK and return them to their homeland. Very worthy I'm sure, but doesn't float my boat ;-)
My comment was more that Cameron walked straight around several people and then diverted to talk to the only black person in the room. It may have been a coincidence, but may be not.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Good manners cost nothing.
Others weren't shunning him. My wife and I were talking to him at the time.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Good manners cost nothing.
Others weren't shunning him. My wife and I were talking to him at the time.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
"“Shaun always says that you can see from space that the place is dominated by those from Eton.” Mr Bailey, a father-of-two in his early 40s, has discussed his concerns with a number of Tory MPs. One has told him that there is a “class war” going on within the party."
If you believe you can see Etonians from space, then perhaps working as a policy adviser to the Prime Minister isn't the best match for your skill set.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
To be fair Socrates, you have made your contempt for those you label chavs pretty clear on here quite a few times. If you are now saying that is a pretty disgraceful view to hold, and one that could lead to a downgrading of the way people so labelled are treated not only by sick paedophiles and rapists but also by social services and law enforcement authorities, then I could not agree with you more.
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Good manners cost nothing.
Others weren't shunning him. My wife and I were talking to him at the time.
Is it possible that the PM diverted to chat with the guest of an organiser?
The NHS reorganisation you can see from space arranged by a clique of Etonians you can see from space. I think Ollie Letwin may have been asked to scope both problems and declared them trouble-free
I thought you were blaming the NHS reorganisation on Andrew Lansley, who did not go to Eton. He went to Brentwood and then onto uni at Exeter.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
To be fair Socrates, you have made your contempt for those you label chavs pretty clear on here quite a few times. If you are now saying that is a pretty disgraceful view to hold, and one that could lead to a downgrading of the way people so labelled are treated not only by sick paedophiles and rapists but also by social services and law enforcement authorities, then I could not agree with you more.
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
The people I have shown contempt for are adults who are involved in loutish behaviour, not children being exploited. And even those I consider louts, if a hundred of them were raped, I'd put it first thing on the news.
To your second question, no, the whole media elite is together in not reporting it. It's ONE HUNDRED kids. It's the most appalling crime on an epic scale. Yet down to fifth or sixth in the news stories. I find it shocking.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
Reporting restrictions were only lifted today - so the full Hate Mail awaits us. In fairness IIRC the BBC gave it significant prominence in the 6 PM news.
radio 5 has a fascinating discussion on this as we speak. But the British press also has two other big child abuse stories today, that the PB child abuse correspondents have strangely missed
One of which relates directly to something we are not allowed to talk about on PB, unless that ban has been lifted. In which case it is hardly strange that it is not being mentioned. Not sure off the top of my head what the second story you are referring to is.
Actually, the first story is hardly big news; the police have come to the rather earth-shattering conclusion that they have done nothing wrong.
On the TV News they've had it as the fifth story, which is better than how they've done on some other cases, I suppose. I agree that other media organisation have been just as bad.
@tim Searching now I see the one about the Church of England, which I hadn't previously come across. It's very worrying, but right now just accusations. If true, it's certainly appalling. It'll be awful if it turns out to be as widespread as it has been in the Catholic Church. What is the other one you mean?
The NHS reorganisation you can see from space arranged by a clique of Etonians you can see from space. I think Ollie Letwin may have been asked to scope both problems and declared them trouble-free
I thought you were blaming the NHS reorganisation on Andrew Lansley, who did not go to Eton. He went to Brentwood and then onto uni at Exeter.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Letwin was sent in by Dave to assess it, keep up.
But you were always telling us that it was Lansley's baby, and you poured endless bile on him for it. But now it was all the arrangement of an Etonian Clique.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
Reporting restrictions were only lifted today - so the full Hate Mail awaits us. In fairness IIRC the BBC gave it significant prominence in the 6 PM news.
Socrates is making a valid point.
It is much easier for the media to cover the Tia Sharp and April Jones trials as there is a single alleged perpetrator who can be demonised. The abduction, incarceration and rape case in Cleveland is similar in having an individual perpetrator. It also has the added 'good news' appeal of a release after ten years.
The Telford case is made difficult by the number of convicted individuals (here just two brothers), their ethnic identity and the association of their crimes with other similar cases. Covering the case to the same degree would lead to a ethnic group rather than individuals being demonised. This, for obvious reasons, is considered by broadcasters and editors to be undesirable and against the public interest.
radio 5 has a fascinating discussion on this as we speak. But the British press also has two other big child abuse stories today, that the PB child abuse correspondents have strangely missed
One of which relates directly to something we are not allowed to talk about on PB, unless that ban has been lifted. In which case it is hardly strange that it is not being mentioned. Not sure off the top of my head what the second story you are referring to is.
Actually, the first story is hardly big news; the police have come to the rather earth-shattering conclusion that they have done nothing wrong.
The fact that the one you haven't noticed or posted on was the front page of the Times today rather makes my point.
Makes what point? The fact I don't scan the newspapers every day? That's a rather ludicrous attack line.
So what was the story, and what does it have to do with child sex abuse?
If you felt it was important enough, you could have mentioned it. But as far as I can tell, you did not. So were you ignoring it as well?
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
To be fair Socrates, you have made your contempt for those you label chavs pretty clear on here quite a few times. If you are now saying that is a pretty disgraceful view to hold, and one that could lead to a downgrading of the way people so labelled are treated not only by sick paedophiles and rapists but also by social services and law enforcement authorities, then I could not agree with you more.
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
The people I have shown contempt for are adults who are involved in loutish behaviour, not children being exploited. And even those I consider louts, if a hundred of them were raped, I'd put it first thing on the news.
To your second question, no, the whole media elite is together in not reporting it. It's ONE HUNDRED kids. It's the most appalling crime on an epic scale. Yet down to fifth or sixth in the news stories. I find it shocking.
What happened is shocking. As I have argued on here before there has been a general reluctance in the UK to address allegations of child abuse over a long period of time. This has allowed abusers to prosper - as we have seen in many cases involving all sorts of people. I would also argue that a tendency by sections of society and authority to view certain groups of people as being essentially less deserving of protection because, for instance, they have lifestyles that are frowned upon has also exacerbated the problem. "Don't worry too much about chav kids because they will only turn out wrong 'uns like their parents are," the thinking goes; "and as for their pissed up older brothers and sisters, they are already scum and were probably asking for what they got".That too is shocking.
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Good manners cost nothing.
Others weren't shunning him. My wife and I were talking to him at the time.
Is it possible that the PM diverted to chat with the guest of an organiser?
Or both Charles and Dave have the same impeccable manners/tokenistic behaviour depending on interpretation.
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
Reporting restrictions were only lifted today - so the full Hate Mail awaits us. In fairness IIRC the BBC gave it significant prominence in the 6 PM news.
The Telford case is made difficult by the number of convicted individuals (here just two brothers)
And does not yet appear to have made it on to the BBC UK news home page:
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
To be fair Socrates, you have made your contempt for those you label chavs pretty clear on here quite a few times. If you are now saying that is a pretty disgraceful view to hold, and one that could lead to a downgrading of the way people so labelled are treated not only by sick paedophiles and rapists but also by social services and law enforcement authorities, then I could not agree with you more.
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
The people I have shown contempt for are adults who are involved in loutish behaviour, not children being exploited. And even those I consider louts, if a hundred of them were raped, I'd put it first thing on the news.
To your second question, no, the whole media elite is together in not reporting it. It's ONE HUNDRED kids. It's the most appalling crime on an epic scale. Yet down to fifth or sixth in the news stories. I find it shocking.
What happened is shocking. As I have argued on here before there has been a general reluctance in the UK to address allegations of child abuse over a long period of time. This has allowed abusers to prosper - as we have seen in many cases involving all sorts of people. I would also argue that a tendency by sections of society and authority to view certain groups of people as being essentially less deserving of protection because, for instance, they have lifestyles that are frowned upon has also exacerbated the problem. "Don't worry too much about chav kids because they will only turn out wrong 'uns like their parents are," the thinking goes; "and as for their pissed up older brothers and sisters, they are already scum and were probably asking for what they got".That too is shocking.
And white men, so it ain't been posted on here.
I think you'll find that when some thought it might have involved a "senior Tory from the Thatcher era" there was endless posting.....
Seven men jailed, up to 100 young children abused (some as young as 13), including being sold and trafficked for sex.
Horrific.
Why would anyone mention it? It's only white chavs that are victims. Clearly modern day slavery of British people is much less important than GDP revisions, judging by the order they're reported on BBC News...
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
Reporting restrictions were only lifted today - so the full Hate Mail awaits us. In fairness IIRC the BBC gave it significant prominence in the 6 PM news.
The Telford case is made difficult by the number of convicted individuals (here just two brothers)
And does not yet appear to have made it on to the BBC UK news home page:
Ah yes I see it is. Charles should tell his story about Dave and the black guy he met at this point. It's relevant
Sure: I was co-hosting a drinks party at no 10 (for the Engaging Experiences Philanthropy Network) and Dave cut across the room after his short speech towards the door. Suddenly made a detour (obviously so) to talk to the black guy that he saw on his way out. Serves him right that he then got trapped with him (he was a boring obsessive about Ghanese tribal ornaments...)
Hmmm, who is showing better manners? The person who invites someone who he considers a boring obsessive? Or the person who makes an effort to speak to the guest?
Dave would've left straight away if all his guests had been white.
But he stopped to talk to the guest that others shunned.
Good manners cost nothing.
Others weren't shunning him. My wife and I were talking to him at the time.
Is it possible that the PM diverted to chat with the guest of an organiser?
Or both Charles and Dave have the same impeccable manners/tokenistic behaviour depending on interpretation.
David Herdson is barking up the wrong tree this time. UKIP as a party and as a force is here to stay. It will, to put it bluntly, stay as an independent party, free of any tory links or grand alliances. I believe that if Nigel Farage even proposed a minor pact with the blues, over half the present membership of UKIP would leave: chick, chuck! So against this proposition happening are the majority, that except for local arrangements, it's a non starter.
Indeed the desire of UKIP is to supplant the Tories as the leading party of the liberal right.
Everything, even political parties have a life span. There is no doubt now that after 80 years of first, appeasement to Germany, Then many in the party wanting to surrender to Hitler, (saved only by Churchills bravery and stubbornness), then after the war, surrendering to social democracy, and then the final surrender, to the common market; that the conservatives have run their course.
The Blues are a decaying party, they are dying bit by little bit.
Comments
I meant in the run up to the next general election. Obviously they need to produce the goods at that point otherwise they'll be judged to have failed.
I distinctly saw a glint in van Rompuy's eye when he was taking a coffee in La Grande-Place and reading about Nige's electoral prospects in his copy of New Europe.
Let people listen and make up their own minds.
http://www.libdems.org.uk/help_us_for_free.aspx
POLDWAS.
No mention was made of the fact that his original assertion and he revalidation are based largely upon his desire to see Britain as a member of an EU federation and that no neutral observer has taken his contention seriously.
No mention of course either of the fact that in 2009 Begg wrote a paper for the LSE stating that the economic crisis created compelling reasons for the UK to join the EU single currency.
http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2009/BritainandtheEuro.aspx
To which a minion replied: "Well, there is the wonderful CoOp bank."
As MickPork would say: Chortle.
We have money in the CoOp bank. The service, and especially the Internet banking, has been, and is, abysmal.
When we were buying our house a year ago, we needed a statement signed by the bank. The CoOp branch told us they did not do print outs of statements for customers.
What great service.
The order of magnitude disclaimer made me laugh, if only for what that would mean for the high-end projection: 30 million jobs lost!
The thing that did come out of it is that, as is often the case with politicians of all stripes, Clegg misrepresented data.
I'd like to see all statistics mentioned by politicians to come with deviation bars. :-)
I stand by what I said in my first post: it is worth a listen.
The Labour Party owes the Co-op Bank several million pounds. This is the time for Labour's multi-millionaire elite to put their hands into their own deep pockets and clear the party's debts.It would be a real shame if Labour got a reputation as a party of welchers.
Surely no Labour party supporter would be stupid enough to fight the next election opposing a referendum on the European Union?
Do I detect tim edging towards a eurosceptic position under the cover of an attack on the Tory record ?
Friday evening and another debate on Europe - wonderful !! I suppose if we're going to argue about the (whatever figure you choose to believe from £4 billion to £20 billion that we pay to the EU every year) amount we pay to the EU, we ought to reflect on the £30+ billion we pay in interest on our debts. Indeed, not paying down the debt, just paying the interest. That's duckonomics, frantic activity just to keep afloat.
Interest is a funny old thing and I note some interesting figures on housing debt which make me wonder what the impact of any sudden rise in interest rates might be. I presume it won't be long before someone comes along and claims that a vote for the other side will lead to much higher interest rates which will hit families (the families, won't someone please think of the families ?!!) and the housing market.
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/43153
SO , following your deep conviction that Romney would handily beat Obama I find it hard to take your US commentaries seriously.
interest rates aren't going to rise any time soon. Not to say that a rise wouldn't have a huge impact but people have a moment or two to prepare.
That said, if the recent "interest only" mortgage problems are anything to go by, many people, whenever it happens, will be badly caught out.
If this story develops as rcs1000 is predicting the Labour party is going to face a financial crisis as severe as the one they gave to the UK as a whole. They could even end up insolvent. The irony of that would be truly delicious.
Meanwhile the Co Op claims they don't need public money: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10049762/Co-op-rules-out-state-aid-as-boss-quits-amid-capital-fears.html
Just as well as I can pretty much guarantee they won't get it.
If Labour were to face a serious financial crisis would there be a temptation to cut and run for an election? Just a thought.
"Voters believe Ed Miliband’s Labour party is ‘nice but dim’ and not capable of taking the tough decisions needed as Prime Minister, damning new polling reveals.
The Labour leader is seen weaker, less charismatic and worse in a crisis than David Cameron, as pollsters warn he will have to ‘defy history’ to take power after just one term in opposition.
But the most damaging revelation is that voters see Mr Miliband as more like Harry Enfield’s character Tim Nice But Dim than a future Prime Minister."
"So Mr Miliband, you are asking for a considerable sum of money. Does any of your leadership have any experience of running a large organisation?"
"Well sir, between 1997 and 2010 we ran the government for the United Kingdom."
"Oh really, and how did that go?"
** ... and other fantasy tales.
A fairly characteristic distortion from the Mail of what that poll actually said.
And only one Spock - Leonard Nimoy!
He seems like a nice enough chap to me, and certainly of (at least) equal intelligence to Cameron, but for whatever reason Middle England just aren't going for him.
A fairly characteristic PBTory misreading of what that Mail actually said.come to that.
The somehat crucial end to the line that seems to have unaccountably been missed by the tory spinner was..
"while the the Tories are viewed as 'mean and dim'"
Basically the nasty party is back with the competence of John Major on tory splits.
There, that covers it I think.
Come now. Its coverage of celebrity cellulite is second-to-none.
Some of them will never forgive him for that. Dan Hodges certainly won't though he is admittedly an imbecile.
"Henry G Manson on how the Tories have made GE2015 easier for Ed"
Let's not be stingy. Clegg did more than his fair share on that score. Clegg is the one primarily responsible for both the AV loss and boundary changes getting booted. That the tories are also implicated should not take away Clegg's strategic genius on that front.
@oflynnexpress: Alistair Darling says hardship, unemp etc in eurozone is caused more by "austerity" than the euro. Thought he knew more economics than that.
Michael Fabricant's on HIGNFY.
LOL
Each to their own I say
http://youtu.be/COt65HZCJaA
looks like the two championship games are weighing in
Yet another one who doesn't realise that the Boris and Farage schtick is far harder to pull off than they think.
Merton is just constantly doing an impression of Tony Hancock
John Cooper Clark looks well!
Why is it a kipper boost?
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/party-finance/party-finance-analysis/party-finance-analysis-accounts#Lab
Is it the token black guy story?
'Shaun Bailey has been shunted out of No10 to Cabinet Office with a 40% paycut. Sidelined and angry, he tells friends of his 'non-job'.' gallagher
That just shows how out of touch 99% of the population are.
P3 starts at 10am, with qualifying at 1pm. I'm hoping to offer a tip for qualifying.
"Finally removed"...... Sounds like you think it might be a long time, and you are probably right..
Good manners cost nothing.
£35,000 a year per child is the going rate.
Oh.
My comment was more that Cameron walked straight around several people and then diverted to talk to the only black person in the room. It may have been a coincidence, but may be not.
He could just have been wearing an OE tie.
If you believe you can see Etonians from space, then perhaps working as a policy adviser to the Prime Minister isn't the best match for your skill set.
Shaun is better off working for Nick Clegg.
I am not in the UK at the moment. Is the BBC alone in the way in which it is reporting the story? Presumably other news outlets have majored on it.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
To your second question, no, the whole media elite is together in not reporting it. It's ONE HUNDRED kids. It's the most appalling crime on an epic scale. Yet down to fifth or sixth in the news stories. I find it shocking.
Miliband adviser who was involved in failed 2010 negotiations says preparation 'is part and parcel of being serious about power'":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/10/labour-coalition-talks-adonis
Actually, the first story is hardly big news; the police have come to the rather earth-shattering conclusion that they have done nothing wrong.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/
On the TV News they've had it as the fifth story, which is better than how they've done on some other cases, I suppose. I agree that other media organisation have been just as bad.
@tim Searching now I see the one about the Church of England, which I hadn't previously come across. It's very worrying, but right now just accusations. If true, it's certainly appalling. It'll be awful if it turns out to be as widespread as it has been in the Catholic Church. What is the other one you mean?
Get your tinfoil hat on...
It is much easier for the media to cover the Tia Sharp and April Jones trials as there is a single alleged perpetrator who can be demonised. The abduction, incarceration and rape case in Cleveland is similar in having an individual perpetrator. It also has the added 'good news' appeal of a release after ten years.
The Telford case is made difficult by the number of convicted individuals (here just two brothers), their ethnic identity and the association of their crimes with other similar cases. Covering the case to the same degree would lead to a ethnic group rather than individuals being demonised. This, for obvious reasons, is considered by broadcasters and editors to be undesirable and against the public interest.
So what was the story, and what does it have to do with child sex abuse?
If you felt it was important enough, you could have mentioned it. But as far as I can tell, you did not. So were you ignoring it as well?
http://www.france24.com/en/20130510-france-pm-francois-fillon-presidential-fued-sarkozy-cope-ump-party-divided
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-22379414
Indeed the desire of UKIP is to supplant the Tories as the leading party of the liberal right.
Everything, even political parties have a life span. There is no doubt now that after 80 years of first, appeasement to Germany, Then many in the party wanting to surrender to Hitler, (saved only by Churchills bravery and stubbornness), then after the war, surrendering to social democracy, and then the final surrender, to the common market; that the conservatives have run their course.
The Blues are a decaying party, they are dying bit by little bit.