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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,633
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:


    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest two-tier Britain news.

    "Benefits claimants can ignore hosepipe ban
    MPs criticise ‘two-tier’ restrictions that allow benefits recipients with three children to hose their gardens"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/13/benefits-claimants-can-ignore-hosepipe-ban/

    LOL

    It really pays less and less in this country to work full time, strive and get on.

    You use your hosepipe. Get a fine.

    The dole bludger down at number 7 can use theirs all day without any comeback.

    Nuts but plenty will justify it.
    I'll break this down for you. Up until the change in the law recently, benefit claimants with 3 or more children only received money for two. Most will be in debt to card companies, the DWP or the local council - perhaps all three. Fining them would simply add to the financial pressures and most likely the fines wouldn't/couldn't be paid. It would waste court time and money for nothing more that a gesture.

    It may offend people and generate the two-tier trope but there is a practicality there.

    So basically fine/screw over the people working you know you will be able to get money from for,doing something others can just do at will.

    The fines are there to prevent a behaviour they don’t want. In this case using excessive water in the garden. So you’re effectively penalising some water users but allowing others to carry on with no fear of any consequence for a behaviour that is not desirable.

    It is two tier and is manifestly unfair on those in the relevant areas.

    By your logic we may as well let benefits claimants speed, park without paying for a ticket or do anything they like as the fine would be unlikely to be paid.
    So what's the answer then?

    There's not much point trying to fine people who don't have money. So then you end up looking at other punishments for non-payment of fines. We could (and do) send people to prison for that, but I'm not sure that's ideal either.

    And there's also the flipside to consider. Some people and businesses feel that they can speed, park without paying for a ticket or do anything they like as the fine is a trivial amount of money for them. Again, that's not especially fair, but people on the right have traditionally been robust in saying that life isn't always fair- get over it. Frankly, I'd rather be in the slice of society where paying fines is a meaningful annoyance than the one the powers that be don't try and levy them.
    Fine them and deduct the fine at source from their benefit payment over a period of time.

    There has to be consequences for behaviour that contravenes relevant laws. If there aren’t people will just carry on without fear of any comeback.

    As we have seen with people walking into shops and walking out with stuff

    There will come a time when those that play by the rules and accept them and potential consequences just say ‘screw this’ and bad behaviour will spread more.
    That’s what’s known as moving from a high-trust society to a low-trust society.
    This is a right wing talking point, not a real thing. If anything is damaging trust in our society, it's social media lies, repeated by helpful idiots.

    Oh, and top politicians not following the rules, like Farage and chums.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,957
    Trump has abandoned his 20% Hormuz transit fee. Assistant Gulf States have promised to make investments into the US instead. I am sure that some of these investments will enrich Trump directly. How long until the oil sheikhs tire of the frequent shakedowns?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,025

    Trump has abandoned his 20% Hormuz transit fee. Assistant Gulf States have promised to make investments into the US instead. I am sure that some of these investments will enrich Trump directly. How long until the oil sheikhs tire of the frequent shakedowns?

    Fantastic. So he's set the rate at 20% for transit fees. The fart of the deal.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,886
    edited 4:09PM
    A lot of people on social media are starting their condolence messages by saying "I disagreed with everything Ann Widdecombe believed in...", but the problem is by saying this they're implying they're in favour of fox hunting, because she was a big campaigner against it. Shows why you should always do your research before making sweeping remarks.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,618
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ann Widdecombe killed in 'targeted attack', counter terror police say"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c05y579g563t

    Doesn't add much though does it? Attacks can be targeted or random and I think it's been established already that this wasn't random.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,381
    carnforth said:

    Battlebus said:

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:


    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest two-tier Britain news.

    "Benefits claimants can ignore hosepipe ban
    MPs criticise ‘two-tier’ restrictions that allow benefits recipients with three children to hose their gardens"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/13/benefits-claimants-can-ignore-hosepipe-ban/

    LOL

    It really pays less and less in this country to work full time, strive and get on.

    You use your hosepipe. Get a fine.

    The dole bludger down at number 7 can use theirs all day without any comeback.

    Nuts but plenty will justify it.
    I'll break this down for you. Up until the change in the law recently, benefit claimants with 3 or more children only received money for two. Most will be in debt to card companies, the DWP or the local council - perhaps all three. Fining them would simply add to the financial pressures and most likely the fines wouldn't/couldn't be paid. It would waste court time and money for nothing more that a gesture.

    It may offend people and generate the two-tier trope but there is a practicality there.
    That's standard Telegraph Trolling to set off the outrage munchkins, and it has worked this morning.

    "Can" is doing a lot of work in that headline: Benefits Claimants - MILLIONS of them.

    The actual people they are talking about are those on a social water tariff called Watersure, which has a grand total of 300k people on it nationwide. Of those, 60k are within areas of hosepipe bans. Watersure aiui caps the bill, so only 60k may benefit since only 2 areas have bans according to the parts of the article not seen on social media.

    The scheme has been in place since 1999, and was not cancelled during 14 years of Conservative lead Goverment.

    A typical recipient would be a household with someone with a medical condition like Crohn's Disease or Weeping Skin Disease, where you need to wash your clothes much more. There's no indication whatsoever that these will be using hosepipes. For the Telegraph to demonise such people is despicable.

    If the Telegraph want to be credibly outraged, then they should focus on people who do not have water meters, or who empty our reservoirs to water their gardens so causing the hosepipe ban in the first place.

    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/eb0dd4f66c17b064
    Why can't people use PIP or child benefit or UC for this purpose? Why do we need a special scheme?

    Why are we doing redistributive activities inside private firms rather than having the government do it? It's another way in which private water firms aren't really private. So maybe we should stop pretending and re-nationalise.
    It's the private company that were given the powers to start the prosecution process. The statutory powers of old utilities and rail companies were flipped over during the privatisation process. So the water utilities are basically saying they have the power to take individuals to court or a fine in lieu of prosecution but are declining to do so. So it's a two tier private sector - those with statutory powers and those without.

    Remember that the next time you pay your TV licence. (Life is not black and white - apart from in Newcastle)
    Sorry, I was referring to Watersure. I should have bolded that para in MattW's comment when replying but I was too lazy.
    How many households on watersure have gardens? Even if they do they're unlikely to be large.
    On the day that the PPE report is released, the Telegraph is getting enraged about a small number of people potentially watering their garden, not Mone, Mellor or any of the other COVID profiteers.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,664
    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I hope he's air-conditioned inside that outfit.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,123
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ann Widdecombe killed in 'targeted attack', counter terror police say"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c05y579g563t

    Well yes, if the alleged killer drove 300 miles, it probably was targeted. But was it terrorism?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,323
    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,252

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    I presume he was also hoping to enrol in an architecture or medicine course?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,447

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    Who’s going to run those errands for his Gran now ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,447
    Trump abandons plan for 20% transit fee for Hormuz

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2077059351357895048?s=61
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,662
    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I am extremely puzzled at why anyone would drive the best part of 600 miles to assassinate Ann Widdecombe. Indeed I am extremely puzzled at why anyone should assonate her anyway. She was a fairly significant figure in Reform, true, but I can think of of several otrhgers who would be higher on an assassins list: people whose death would not give rise to the same degree of public sympathy.

    No doubt more facts will become available soon, but for the moment I suspect that either there's something to come out a plot to assassinate all Reform's first and second level 'politicians' or the 'assassin' had some crazed dislike of the poor lady.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,832
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    It feels like we're living in a poorly written soap. Neither the Anne-Widdecombe-gets-murdered storyline nor the Farage-calls-a-needless-byelection-and-loses-to-Binface storyline are remotely believable. Nor for that matter is wildfires in the notoriously-moist Greater Manchester. Put some effort in, writers!

    I thought there were fires around Manchester a few years ago?
    You're right, I was being slightly flippant. But - if you're here - it does add an air of unreality.
    Still the BBC haven't got their story straight.

    First, the Dovestones fire was pouring smoke over Manchester. Wrong, it wasn't, it was the Tintwistle fire, which coincidentally caused intermittent fire service call outs to localities in Huddersfield back in June when the wind was coming from the south.

    Now to the BBC, it's billed as the Tintwistle fire near Dovestones as if there is one fire. Wrong - the two locations are the other side of the same hill, but they are separated by about 5 miles as the crow flies, or about 12 miles by road.

    Two separate fires - (1) smaller one at Dovestones, attended by GM and contributing a little smoke, (2) larger one above Tintwistle, attended by Derbyshire, but sending smoke across Manchester.

    The satellite picture the BBC are using tells this entire story as both of the fires and their smoke trails can be seen.
    As we travelled back from Chester yesterday, the smoke was evident to the south of the city and it was being carried over the southern parts by a brisk easterly or east north easterly wind. It was worst at Heaton Moor as you might expect.

    Better this morning as we headed out of Piccadilly but again plenty of haze to the east but not as bad as yesterday afternoon.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,501
    edited 4:23PM

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    No wonder he got shot then. Switching the lights on was a rookie mistake.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,252
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ann Widdecombe killed in 'targeted attack', counter terror police say"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c05y579g563t

    No shit sherlock.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,735
    stodge said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    It feels like we're living in a poorly written soap. Neither the Anne-Widdecombe-gets-murdered storyline nor the Farage-calls-a-needless-byelection-and-loses-to-Binface storyline are remotely believable. Nor for that matter is wildfires in the notoriously-moist Greater Manchester. Put some effort in, writers!

    I thought there were fires around Manchester a few years ago?
    You're right, I was being slightly flippant. But - if you're here - it does add an air of unreality.
    Still the BBC haven't got their story straight.

    First, the Dovestones fire was pouring smoke over Manchester. Wrong, it wasn't, it was the Tintwistle fire, which coincidentally caused intermittent fire service call outs to localities in Huddersfield back in June when the wind was coming from the south.

    Now to the BBC, it's billed as the Tintwistle fire near Dovestones as if there is one fire. Wrong - the two locations are the other side of the same hill, but they are separated by about 5 miles as the crow flies, or about 12 miles by road.

    Two separate fires - (1) smaller one at Dovestones, attended by GM and contributing a little smoke, (2) larger one above Tintwistle, attended by Derbyshire, but sending smoke across Manchester.

    The satellite picture the BBC are using tells this entire story as both of the fires and their smoke trails can be seen.
    As we travelled back from Chester yesterday, the smoke was evident to the south of the city and it was being carried over the southern parts by a brisk easterly or east north easterly wind. It was worst at Heaton Moor as you might expect.

    Better this morning as we headed out of Piccadilly but again plenty of haze to the east but not as bad as yesterday afternoon.
    Is one of these the fire that was started by kids setting off fireworks on the moor?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,302

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    So he was a fire raiser as well as a burglar.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,678
    Cookie said:

    Betting post: England appear to be favourites to qualify from their semi-final with Argentina tomorrow. This is madness, surely? Argentina are not only very good but will cheat, they will get away with it, and they will win. I'd say a chance of England getting through tomorrow's match is less than 20%, rather than the greater than 50% the odds appear to imply.

    I think England are the marginally better team. I would have them slight favourites to beat Argentina but clear underdogs in the final, especially against France.
    Cheating is harder than it used to be. In the age of VAR the hand of God goal would presumably have been disallowed and Maradona punished.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,302

    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I am extremely puzzled at why anyone would drive the best part of 600 miles to assassinate Ann Widdecombe. Indeed I am extremely puzzled at why anyone should assonate her anyway. She was a fairly significant figure in Reform, true, but I can think of of several otrhgers who would be higher on an assassins list: people whose death would not give rise to the same degree of public sympathy.

    No doubt more facts will become available soon, but for the moment I suspect that either there's something to come out a plot to assassinate all Reform's first and second level 'politicians' or the 'assassin' had some crazed dislike of the poor lady.
    I don’t understand why anyone would drive anywhere to assassinate anyone, but I’m not on X so won’t be radicalised by Musk.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 28,002
    How the f*** is this idiot still on the BBC payroll?

    https://x.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/2077008507556053398

    @JohnSimpsonNews
    Argentina v England is important way beyond football. If Argentina wins tomorrow night, it’ll put real fire behind the demand for the Falklands. If England wins, that should put the lid on it — for now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,252

    Cookie said:

    Betting post: England appear to be favourites to qualify from their semi-final with Argentina tomorrow. This is madness, surely? Argentina are not only very good but will cheat, they will get away with it, and they will win. I'd say a chance of England getting through tomorrow's match is less than 20%, rather than the greater than 50% the odds appear to imply.

    I think England are the marginally better team. I would have them slight favourites to beat Argentina but clear underdogs in the final, especially against France.
    Cheating is harder than it used to be. In the age of VAR the hand of God goal would presumably have been disallowed and Maradona punished.
    You obviously not seen who is ref'ing the game tomorrow....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,252
    edited 4:32PM
    tlg86 said:

    How the f*** is this idiot still on the BBC payroll?

    https://x.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/2077008507556053398

    @JohnSimpsonNews
    Argentina v England is important way beyond football. If Argentina wins tomorrow night, it’ll put real fire behind the demand for the Falklands. If England wins, that should put the lid on it — for now.

    Its hard to tell these days is he is trying to tell a funny that doesn't really land or being deadly serious. It appears more often than not its the latter.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,381
    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    WTF?
    I think John Rentoul needs a lie down
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,506
    tlg86 said:

    How the f*** is this idiot still on the BBC payroll?

    https://x.com/JohnSimpsonNews/status/2077008507556053398

    @JohnSimpsonNews
    Argentina v England is important way beyond football. If Argentina wins tomorrow night, it’ll put real fire behind the demand for the Falklands. If England wins, that should put the lid on it — for now.

    Has Simpson been on the sherry ! What an absolutely ludicrous thing to say .
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,580
    edited 4:33PM
    HYUFD said:

    Ed Miliband has principles and if you don’t like those he has other ones.

    Miliband willing to approve North Sea oil to land job as chancellor

    Energy Secretary wants to prove he is a ‘pragmatist’ rather than a ‘zealot’ on environmental policy to help his case for being chancellor


    Ed Miliband wants to approve drilling in the North Sea to calm market jitters about his possible appointment as chancellor and prove he is no net zero “zealot”.

    The Energy Secretary has privately signalled his willingness to grant consent for drilling at the Jackdaw gas field but cannot publicly confirm the move until a consultation closes next month.

    Jackdaw, off the coast of Aberdeen, is one of two licences in the North Sea currently held in legal limbo. The other site, Rosebank, would produce oil to be sold in a global market, but Jackdaw would be able to provide enough fuel to heat 1.4 million British homes this winter.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/14/miliband-will-approve-north-sea-oil-clear-path-chancellor/

    A sensible move but might not help Burnham with squeezing the Green vote, though would help him squeeze some ex Labour voters who have gone Reform
    “ Rosebank, would produce oil to be sold in a global market, but Jackdaw would be able to provide enough fuel to heat 1.4 million British homes this winter.”.

    Is the Telegraph correct in that statement about Jack Daw?
    I didn’t think UK owned any North Sea Oil, so what arrangement with private enterprise prevents it being sold on the markets, and consumption for UK only?

    When is the cut off for it not to be ready for British homes this coming winter? Weather forecasts for business planning is suggesting one of coldest snowfest in living memory.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 8,302

    Cookie said:

    Betting post: England appear to be favourites to qualify from their semi-final with Argentina tomorrow. This is madness, surely? Argentina are not only very good but will cheat, they will get away with it, and they will win. I'd say a chance of England getting through tomorrow's match is less than 20%, rather than the greater than 50% the odds appear to imply.

    I think England are the marginally better team. I would have them slight favourites to beat Argentina but clear underdogs in the final, especially against France.
    Cheating is harder than it used to be. In the age of VAR the hand of God goal would presumably have been disallowed and Maradona punished.
    You obviously not seen who is ref'ing the game tomorrow....
    Is it a Scot?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,532
    franklyn said:

    very strange, I can see the comments on this site if I log on through Edge but not if I use Chrome as my browser!

    Thanks for the tip. I can't see comments on my phone where I use the Samsung browser. Maybe I will try Edge like I do here on my laptop.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,025

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    So he was a fire raiser as well as a burglar.
    Burglar's will be the first to the wall when the Omnium regime arrives. And let's face it we're only days away from the Burnham, and thus only mere weeks from the Burnham Collapse, and then the Council of the Wise, and then it's me! (Luckily I've planned ahead, and the population of both Clacton and Makerfield will be sold into slavery to ease the National debt.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,252

    Cookie said:

    Betting post: England appear to be favourites to qualify from their semi-final with Argentina tomorrow. This is madness, surely? Argentina are not only very good but will cheat, they will get away with it, and they will win. I'd say a chance of England getting through tomorrow's match is less than 20%, rather than the greater than 50% the odds appear to imply.

    I think England are the marginally better team. I would have them slight favourites to beat Argentina but clear underdogs in the final, especially against France.
    Cheating is harder than it used to be. In the age of VAR the hand of God goal would presumably have been disallowed and Maradona punished.
    You obviously not seen who is ref'ing the game tomorrow....
    Is it a Scot?
    Might as well be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,323
    Omnium said:

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    So he was a fire raiser as well as a burglar.
    Burglar's will be the first to the wall when the Omnium regime arrives. And let's face it we're only days away from the Burnham, and thus only mere weeks from the Burnham Collapse, and then the Council of the Wise, and then it's me! (Luckily I've planned ahead, and the population of both Clacton and Makerfield will be sold into slavery to ease the National debt.
    “ the population of both Clacton and Makerfield will be sold into slavery to ease the National debt”

    That’ll raise what, £100?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,207

    Cookie said:

    Betting post: England appear to be favourites to qualify from their semi-final with Argentina tomorrow. This is madness, surely? Argentina are not only very good but will cheat, they will get away with it, and they will win. I'd say a chance of England getting through tomorrow's match is less than 20%, rather than the greater than 50% the odds appear to imply.

    I think England are the marginally better team. I would have them slight favourites to beat Argentina but clear underdogs in the final, especially against France.
    Cheating is harder than it used to be. In the age of VAR the hand of God goal would presumably have been disallowed and Maradona punished.
    You obviously not seen who is ref'ing the game tomorrow....
    We are really going to have to beat them so convincingly that there is no way any assistance matters.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,823

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    It largely depends if Burnham wins the next general election or not. If he doesn't then Farage or Badenoch would be next PM. If he does then it depends how long Labour remains ahead in the polls, if the right reunite and they fall behind in the polls it might be a more centrist New Labour figure like Streeting who replaces him rather than just more leftism with Ed Miliband or Rayner

    Who will win the next election is a game of elimination. It is pretty universally agreed on the centre ground that no-one deserves to, but there will of course be a PM after the next election.

    It's a subject for Sherlock's great dictum (true of course only if slightly amended, but the point is clear):

    when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth

    As it can only be the leader of Lab/Con/Ref it is simple.

    It can't be Reform because they can't win. It can't be Kemi because she isn't PM material and she can't win and there is no-one decent to replace her. So it's Labour, or Labour led, which means almost 100% certainly Burnham. DYOR.

    This is not informed commentary, it's hopecasting. You hate Kemi and Nige, so you already have your conclusion, then work backwards. That's fine as it goes - you have arranged the words nicely, but what credence do you expect anyone to give this?
    Thanks; as to your comments: sentence 1, agree; sentence 2 disagree; sentence 3 none.

    My only defence is that if you carefully sift through the last 8000 or so comments you will see that elsewhere I give more reasoned grounds for my wild speculations. I don't hate Kemi and I would like her to make the Tories electable, but I don't think she will. I don't hate Farage because I try not to hate anybody. People have souls and he is a hurt man. I am strongly opposed to what he stands for and his methods.

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,564

    Andy_JS said:

    "Ann Widdecombe killed in 'targeted attack', counter terror police say"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c05y579g563t

    Well yes, if the alleged killer drove 300 miles, it probably was targeted. But was it terrorism?
    Its best not to speculate.

    The initial assessment of a burglary gone wrong and a local man arrested seemed the most plausible if tragic scenario.

    After which there is clear evidence that a person did drive 300 miles , seemingly in the knowledge of where she lived , and made a premeditated decision to kill her.

    Whether this was politcally or celebrity motivated, or linked to some specific views she openly held, and was entitled to hold who knows.

    the fact that Farage / Musk and the usual right wing suspects are desperate to turn this in to a contract politically motivated killing just adds to the speculation that her family are desperate to quell.

    We may never know.

    It is a tragedy for her family and friends

    What would be a bigger tragedy would be if her reputation was tarnised by Farage and his stormtroopers in any way to create another summer of insurection and violence. She would have hated that!



  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,628
    edited 4:39PM
    stodge said:

    What am I to make of events in Clacton?

    I was half expecting Farage to, pace Jonathan Aitken, witter on about "the sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play" but given how that turned out for Aitken, probably not a good move.

    Am I right in thinking even if Farage is re-elected, the Standards Committee could still throw him out of Parliament thereby forcing a second by-election in which Farage (presumably) would be unable to stand? I presume Farage is hoping a strong re-election will put pressure on the aforementioned Standards Committee to, if not, exonerate him entirely then perhaps to ensure it's more of a slap on the wrist than a kick in the gonads.

    Farage remains an MP and life goes on as normally as it ever can and all we are out is the cost of the by-election and the prevailing questions about donations and contributions which will dog (so to apeak) Farage all the way to the next GE and perhaps beyond.

    As for Count Bin-fahsay, I've seen him interviewed. I'm sure we can all understand his frustration at urinal facilities in west London pubs but how far will the joke take him and what will we do if he gets there?

    The standards committee doesn't throw him out, but can suspend him. However if the days of suspension is sufficient then a petition for a by election can be sought. If there are enough signatures a by election is called. He can stand.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,832

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Battlebus said:


    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest two-tier Britain news.

    "Benefits claimants can ignore hosepipe ban
    MPs criticise ‘two-tier’ restrictions that allow benefits recipients with three children to hose their gardens"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/13/benefits-claimants-can-ignore-hosepipe-ban/

    LOL

    It really pays less and less in this country to work full time, strive and get on.

    You use your hosepipe. Get a fine.

    The dole bludger down at number 7 can use theirs all day without any comeback.

    Nuts but plenty will justify it.
    I'll break this down for you. Up until the change in the law recently, benefit claimants with 3 or more children only received money for two. Most will be in debt to card companies, the DWP or the local council - perhaps all three. Fining them would simply add to the financial pressures and most likely the fines wouldn't/couldn't be paid. It would waste court time and money for nothing more that a gesture.

    It may offend people and generate the two-tier trope but there is a practicality there.

    So basically fine/screw over the people working you know you will be able to get money from for,doing something others can just do at will.

    The fines are there to prevent a behaviour they don’t want. In this case using excessive water in the garden. So you’re effectively penalising some water users but allowing others to carry on with no fear of any consequence for a behaviour that is not desirable.

    It is two tier and is manifestly unfair on those in the relevant areas.

    By your logic we may as well let benefits claimants speed, park without paying for a ticket or do anything they like as the fine would be unlikely to be paid.
    So what's the answer then?

    There's not much point trying to fine people who don't have money. So then you end up looking at other punishments for non-payment of fines. We could (and do) send people to prison for that, but I'm not sure that's ideal either.

    And there's also the flipside to consider. Some people and businesses feel that they can speed, park without paying for a ticket or do anything they like as the fine is a trivial amount of money for them. Again, that's not especially fair, but people on the right have traditionally been robust in saying that life isn't always fair- get over it. Frankly, I'd rather be in the slice of society where paying fines is a meaningful annoyance than the one the powers that be don't try and levy them.
    Fine them and deduct the fine at source from their benefit payment over a period of time.

    There has to be consequences for behaviour that contravenes relevant laws. If there aren’t people will just carry on without fear of any comeback.

    As we have seen with people walking into shops and walking out with stuff

    There will come a time when those that play by the rules and accept them and potential consequences just say ‘screw this’ and bad behaviour will spread more.
    That’s what’s known as moving from a high-trust society to a low-trust society.
    This is a right wing talking point, not a real thing. If anything is damaging trust in our society, it's social media lies, repeated by helpful idiots.

    Oh, and top politicians not following the rules, like Farage and chums.
    Part of it is about the demonisation of those on welfare so parties proposing swingeing cuts to welfare to fund tax cuts for the wealthy will get support at a future election. It's easy to argue to cut benefits if significant parts of the electorate view those on benefits as "scroungers" so let's call that for what it is, an attempt to mobilise an anti-welfare pro-tax vut agenda.

    As for antisocial media, I already mentioned we were messaged by one of our friends who saw a video purporting to show a group of young men fighting with machetes "in Manchester" together with the usual pro-Restore, anti-immigration messaging.

    This friend of ours sees the video and immediately concludes Manchester is a dangerous city filled by young men armed with machetes and thinks we are at risk. As you say, such videos are aimed at the stupid and the gullible and the problem is even when debunked (as they usually are), the damage is done, the message has got home.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,473

    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I am extremely puzzled at why anyone would drive the best part of 600 miles to assassinate Ann Widdecombe. Indeed I am extremely puzzled at why anyone should assonate her anyway. She was a fairly significant figure in Reform, true, but I can think of of several otrhgers who would be higher on an assassins list: people whose death would not give rise to the same degree of public sympathy.

    No doubt more facts will become available soon, but for the moment I suspect that either there's something to come out a plot to assassinate all Reform's first and second level 'politicians' or the 'assassin' had some crazed dislike of the poor lady.
    I do wonder if she wasn't right wing enough for the killer, after all that seemed to be the motive for the various similar events over in Trumpistan.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,662
    Dopermean said:

    carnforth said:

    Battlebus said:

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Battlebus said:


    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Latest two-tier Britain news.

    "Benefits claimants can ignore hosepipe ban
    MPs criticise ‘two-tier’ restrictions that allow benefits recipients with three children to hose their gardens"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/13/benefits-claimants-can-ignore-hosepipe-ban/

    LOL

    It really pays less and less in this country to work full time, strive and get on.

    You use your hosepipe. Get a fine.

    The dole bludger down at number 7 can use theirs all day without any comeback.

    Nuts but plenty will justify it.
    I'll break this down for you. Up until the change in the law recently, benefit claimants with 3 or more children only received money for two. Most will be in debt to card companies, the DWP or the local council - perhaps all three. Fining them would simply add to the financial pressures and most likely the fines wouldn't/couldn't be paid. It would waste court time and money for nothing more that a gesture.

    It may offend people and generate the two-tier trope but there is a practicality there.
    That's standard Telegraph Trolling to set off the outrage munchkins, and it has worked this morning.

    "Can" is doing a lot of work in that headline: Benefits Claimants - MILLIONS of them.

    The actual people they are talking about are those on a social water tariff called Watersure, which has a grand total of 300k people on it nationwide. Of those, 60k are within areas of hosepipe bans. Watersure aiui caps the bill, so only 60k may benefit since only 2 areas have bans according to the parts of the article not seen on social media.

    The scheme has been in place since 1999, and was not cancelled during 14 years of Conservative lead Goverment.

    A typical recipient would be a household with someone with a medical condition like Crohn's Disease or Weeping Skin Disease, where you need to wash your clothes much more. There's no indication whatsoever that these will be using hosepipes. For the Telegraph to demonise such people is despicable.

    If the Telegraph want to be credibly outraged, then they should focus on people who do not have water meters, or who empty our reservoirs to water their gardens so causing the hosepipe ban in the first place.

    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/eb0dd4f66c17b064
    Why can't people use PIP or child benefit or UC for this purpose? Why do we need a special scheme?

    Why are we doing redistributive activities inside private firms rather than having the government do it? It's another way in which private water firms aren't really private. So maybe we should stop pretending and re-nationalise.
    It's the private company that were given the powers to start the prosecution process. The statutory powers of old utilities and rail companies were flipped over during the privatisation process. So the water utilities are basically saying they have the power to take individuals to court or a fine in lieu of prosecution but are declining to do so. So it's a two tier private sector - those with statutory powers and those without.

    Remember that the next time you pay your TV licence. (Life is not black and white - apart from in Newcastle)
    Sorry, I was referring to Watersure. I should have bolded that para in MattW's comment when replying but I was too lazy.
    How many households on watersure have gardens? Even if they do they're unlikely to be large.
    On the day that the PPE report is released, the Telegraph is getting enraged about a small number of people potentially watering their garden, not Mone, Mellor or any of the other COVID profiteers.
    What else do you expect of the Telegraph?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,377
    edited 4:42PM

    stodge said:

    Should we be concerned about the renewed shenanigans in the Gulf? WTI back up to around $80 a barrel and Brent to $85 so basically where it was a month ago and still above the $65 - $67 at the end of February.

    As someone argued earlier, are we looking, much as we did with Iraq in the "No Fly" period of occasional bursts of violence followed by periods of relative calm for a longer or shorter period? It took an invasion and regime change to end that stand off but is there really any appetite in Washington for a ground invasion of Iran? It doesn't seem likely.

    Two positives.

    Firstly, @Casino_Royale was right, and we didn't run out of jet fuel, or diesel, etc. Refineries did a lot of work to fill the gaps, and China used its reserves to massively cut imports.

    Secondly, we're already four and a half months into this, so we're four and a half months closer to pipelines that bypass the strait, to other producers increasing output to make up the deficit, to installing enough renewables that we don't need fossil fuels from the Middle East, to making the Strait increasingly irrelevant.

    It's really bad for Kuwait and Iraq, and some of the other Gulf States, and the higher oil price is a boon for Putin, but it keeps Trump busy and distracted from any other escapades. I'm inclined to just leave him to it.
    It will certainly be ironic if Trump's legacy ends up being an accelerated decline in the use of fossil fuels and a concerted push towards the deployment of more renewables.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,963
    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    Non sequitur of the century.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,886

    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I am extremely puzzled at why anyone would drive the best part of 600 miles to assassinate Ann Widdecombe. Indeed I am extremely puzzled at why anyone should assonate her anyway. She was a fairly significant figure in Reform, true, but I can think of of several otrhgers who would be higher on an assassins list: people whose death would not give rise to the same degree of public sympathy.

    No doubt more facts will become available soon, but for the moment I suspect that either there's something to come out a plot to assassinate all Reform's first and second level 'politicians' or the 'assassin' had some crazed dislike of the poor lady.
    Because they knew she lived alone in an isolated area? That probably isn't true of all the other high profile Reform politicians.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,025

    Omnium said:

    Have we done this?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yzy7qvrpzo

    Farmer who shot burglar dead, no charges.

    Burglar described as “lighting every room he walked into” and an “aspiring footballer”

    So he was a fire raiser as well as a burglar.
    Burglar's will be the first to the wall when the Omnium regime arrives. And let's face it we're only days away from the Burnham, and thus only mere weeks from the Burnham Collapse, and then the Council of the Wise, and then it's me! (Luckily I've planned ahead, and the population of both Clacton and Makerfield will be sold into slavery to ease the National debt.
    “ the population of both Clacton and Makerfield will be sold into slavery to ease the National debt”

    That’ll raise what, £100?
    Well, I suspect that the national campaign to rid ourselves of the electors of Makerfield will be a thing.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,564
    edited 4:42PM
    It would appear that the increasingly authoritarian and seemingly desperate Kemi is starting a cull of centrists and one Nation Tories.

    Gavin Barwell may be a soft and easy target.

    I would suggest that the likes of Ruth Davison, Andy Street and other moderate Tory MP''s and Lords and ex Political figures may be about the expose her folly and to bite back hard!

    Internecine warfare in the Tory Party and the exposure of Farage as a frit gutless coward may yet prove Andy of Makerfield has one essence money cannot buy "political luck"...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,323
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I am extremely puzzled at why anyone would drive the best part of 600 miles to assassinate Ann Widdecombe. Indeed I am extremely puzzled at why anyone should assonate her anyway. She was a fairly significant figure in Reform, true, but I can think of of several otrhgers who would be higher on an assassins list: people whose death would not give rise to the same degree of public sympathy.

    No doubt more facts will become available soon, but for the moment I suspect that either there's something to come out a plot to assassinate all Reform's first and second level 'politicians' or the 'assassin' had some crazed dislike of the poor lady.
    Because they knew she lived alone in an isolated area? That probably isn't true of all the other high profile Reform politicians.
    The profiles of various deliberate killers of politicians, in various countries, over the years suggests that, for many of them, the motive wasn’t especially rational.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 57,473
    Andy_JS said:

    "@JohnRentoul

    After the killing of Ann Widdecombe, Count Binface is suddenly a lot less funny"

    https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/2076985776538087720

    I think it pretty unlikely that Binface was involved in the killing.

    Whatever happened to "keep calm and carry on?"
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