It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Suspect it's more who have we got the phone number of in that area who can sort it out quickly...
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I would make reference to the crack down on police officers using resignation to terminate investigation, then trying to return to The Farce.
“We should stop MPs behaving like corrupt police officers”
I wonder if Binface might actually take the bin off and do one serious interview, just before the postal votes go out, majoring on bad money in politics and actually committing to live in Clacton for a couple of years, being a good local MP fighting for the people who live in one of the poorest places in the country?
It would immediately diffuse the Reform critism of him as an Establishment “Uniparty” stooge.
Doubt it, that's not his point.
"Uniparty" is not a British term in the first place anyway.
Yes, clear signal of people spending too much time online. It's Establishment, without the uniparty bit.
Binface doesn't need to defuse the criticism of him as an establishment stooge anyway, because he's just a joke candidate. Yes, one the establishment parties are enjoying 'supporting' in this contest, but he doesn't need to be criticised on a serious basis (a mistake Reform, but not Farage, are making) because he's already a joke, nor does he need to try to dispel such criticism because he's just there to get a bit of attention and fun.
If anything the bigger risk to Binface would be he tries too hard, and overdoes his schtick as a result.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
Leave aside it's a well-known individual, what's the first port of call in a murder in the home? Friends or family or possibly someone else in their life.
Not that it matters and we don't need to know, but I'm not sure if the police are hinting that they do know what's gone or if they don't have a clue.
Or burglary etc
I can't find any stats for it, but I reckon murders by burglars are incredibly low.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Yep - I suspect if you found a way of making our gun rules tougher and did an opinion poll most people would go for the strictest rules..
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Presumably they’re the regional armed division who can best show up in serious numbers to pluck someone up quickly?
Glad they appear to have him in custody and aren’t looking for anyone else.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
This happened before.
The explanation given was that that the suspect might have been armed and Counter Terrorism Officers were deployed just in case as they are routinely armed.
We shouldn't forget a lot of regular police were deployed in city centres for the England match viewings
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
I'd love to find out the answer to that. It would rocket into my top5 all time political moments. But I'm keeping a lid on expectations. Certainly not tempted by the 9 on Betfair. Farage polled 46% in Clackers at GE24 and Reform's national polling is almost double what it was then. He should win comfortably even allowing for a strong and unified 'anti' vote coming out to get him.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Whenever I see those alt-right types going on about how the UK is basically one second away from instant revolt against elites and only Restore are the talking sense I feel like yelling at them:
"You know how when Europeans comment on American politics they do so without the full context, and usually end up interpreting it all through the lens of their own national political battles? Exactly."
And we have the benefit of a lot more exposure to US media and political reporting than they do of ours.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
Rules don't apply if you are popular. I do wonder if Farage applies that to the most popular political party at the last election, Labour.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
I'd love to find out the answer to that. It would rocket into my top5 all time political moments. But I'm keeping a lid on expectations. Certainly not tempted by the 9 on Betfair. Farage polled 46% in Clackers at GE24 and Reform's national polling is almost double what it was then. He should win comfortably even allowing for a strong and unified 'anti' vote coming out to get him.
I do want to see odds on voteshare, as I think he should get 60-70 easily, and probably over 80%.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
I'd love to find out the answer to that. It would rocket into my top5 all time political moments. But I'm keeping a lid on expectations. Certainly not tempted by the 9 on Betfair. Farage polled 46% in Clackers at GE24 and Reform's national polling is almost double what it was then. He should win comfortably even allowing for a strong and unified 'anti' vote coming out to get him.
I remember hearing that Barack Obama and his staff couldn't believe the reason they couldn't. speak to David Cameron in circa 2012 was that Dave was out canvassing/campaigning for a council election and that the phone signal in West Oxfordshire was shite.
They thought it was a ruse at first.
They thought it was unbelievable that a G7 leader would be out campaigning for such a minor election that they weren't even standing in.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Yeah, the Haqqani Network AND Al Shabab are very active in fucking Yarm.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
Rules don't apply if you are popular. I do wonder if Farage applies that to the most popular political party at the last election, Labour.
He is on course to be the least popular party leader in the UK.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
Leave aside it's a well-known individual, what's the first port of call in a murder in the home? Friends or family or possibly someone else in their life.
Not that it matters and we don't need to know, but I'm not sure if the police are hinting that they do know what's gone or if they don't have a clue.
It could be very similar to the death of Pier Paolo Pasolini. Yes It could be anything.
Point is you are right - Not that it matters and we don't need to know right now. Why would anyone even want to speculate, build conspiracy theories, make political points about it right now. It’s just so sad and horrific end to someone. It’s horrible. Now is only the time for prayers.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Yep - I suspect if you found a way of making our gun rules tougher and did an opinion poll most people would go for the strictest rules..
Trying to explain the concept of “armed police” to Americans is always rather amusing.
They really don’t understand how the vast majority of police in the UK don’t carry guns, and that those that do carry always loudly announce themselves as such.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
"...a powerful by-election victory..." is the clue that Lucky needs to give his head a wobble.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
I'd love to find out the answer to that. It would rocket into my top5 all time political moments. But I'm keeping a lid on expectations. Certainly not tempted by the 9 on Betfair. Farage polled 46% in Clackers at GE24 and Reform's national polling is almost double what it was then. He should win comfortably even allowing for a strong and unified 'anti' vote coming out to get him.
I remember hearing that Barack Obama and his staff couldn't believe the reason they couldn't. speak to David Cameron in circa 2012 was that Dave was out canvassing/campaigning for a council election and that the phone signal in West Oxfordshire was shite.
They thought it was a ruse at first.
They thought it was unbelievable that a G7 leader would be out campaigning for such a minor election that they weren't even standing in.
American politics, with its ads and money and countless different elected posts at many levels, at times seems both hyper intense and local, and yet also very distant and deferential, with those at the top basically expected to have no interactions with the public outside big town halls and campaign rallies (and endless funding events). I don't know if it is just a cultural portrayal, but american TV shows make it look as though the public treat their Senators and Members of Congress more like minor aristocrats, albeit ones they don't like very much.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Weirdly, a primary school friend of mine (I haven't seen him for 40 years) posted a pro-Lowe line on facebook the other day, talking approvingly about his appearance on Joe Rogan. It was only the second time I had ever heard anyone outside this forum mention Rupert Lowe.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
Leave aside it's a well-known individual, what's the first port of call in a murder in the home? Friends or family or possibly someone else in their life.
Not that it matters and we don't need to know, but I'm not sure if the police are hinting that they do know what's gone or if they don't have a clue.
Or burglary etc
I can't find any stats for it, but I reckon murders by burglars are incredibly low.
Agreed its very low, though thankfully so are murders in general in this country, but its not unheard of.
If it were to be anything like that, then there would be no political motive.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Yep - I suspect if you found a way of making our gun rules tougher and did an opinion poll most people would go for the strictest rules..
Trying to explain the concept of “armed police” to Americans is always rather amusing.
They really don’t understand how the vast majority of police in the UK don’t carry guns, and that those that do carry always loudly announce themselves as such.
Judging by the comments of some videos, they find the idea of armed officers who *don't* fire 5,000 rounds at suspects, at the drop of a hat, alarming.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
"...a powerful by-election victory..."
I rarely go wrong with my 'apply the argument to the other side' test. If someone I did like had done this, would I think it was a good idea? Surely I'd think it was an unnecessary risk at best.
It was just a bit early, since the media stories won't stop about the funding whatever the result (and indeed, even if an investigation clears him), so what benefit to fanning the flames on the story without a need?
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not the only politician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Yep - I suspect if you found a way of making our gun rules tougher and did an opinion poll most people would go for the strictest rules..
Trying to explain the concept of “armed police” to Americans is always rather amusing.
They really don’t understand how the vast majority of police in the UK don’t carry guns, and that those that do carry always loudly announce themselves as such.
Judging by the comments of some videos, they find the idea of armed officers who *don't* fire 5,000 rounds at suspects, at the drop of a hat, alarming.
Don't forget the insistence knife crime in the UK is really really high and that (somehow) means comparing the gun crime rate means nothing,
As it happens I don't know if our knife crime rate is that much higher than theirs (or higher at all), but even if someone loves their guns more than their first born you'd think they could perceive that guns and knives have different potentials.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Presumably they’re the regional armed division who can best show up in serious numbers to pluck someone up quickly?
Glad they appear to have him in custody and aren’t looking for anyone else.
I can certainly see this is not an arrest you would want to risk cocking up.
Equally, a dead suspect with 18 bullet holes would be a bit of a political problem if armed officers cocked up...
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not the only politician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
If only it were that Farage had simply resigned, I would wholeheartedly agree, Lucky.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Isn't that how the standards committee works? The most they can do is put the MP's fate in the hands of the voters and if they win a recall by election (or a recall petition fails) then there's no further sanction?
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Weirdly, a primary school friend of mine (I haven't seen him for 40 years) posted a pro-Lowe line on facebook the other day, talking approvingly about his appearance on Joe Rogan. It was only the second time I had ever heard anyone outside this forum mention Rupert Lowe.
We all know, but don’t talk about here, the reason Lowe has travelled across the pond.
I’ll try and watch the Rogan interview today or tomorrow, but it’s two hours’ long as Rogan’s podcasts tend to be. 2h is actually a pretty short one by Rogan’s standards, many are over 3h.
There’s a lot of fringe British figures that have travelled across the pond and gained some sympathy, for example a lot of the American right think that “Tommy” is a journalist rather than an agitator, and figures like Carl Benjamin (Sargon of Akkad), while he’s moderated his views somewhat compared to a decade ago, still attracts quite an American audience for his podcasts.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
He is misinterpreting the Statute of Indults (Æthelred the Vain, 943) - a member of the *Witan* can receive pardon for petty treasons, if he conducts a tourney while sitting backwards on the horse. Wearing a jousting helm.
So it only applies if you are in the Lords and Faraage would have to wear the jousting helm as well.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
What I find remarkable is other MEPs, and I can't remember the one guy in particular, but he would often wear a tweed jacket, were making almost identical speeches to those that Nathan Gill was making. I am sure they were all incredibly innocent coincidences of course.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Yep - I suspect if you found a way of making our gun rules tougher and did an opinion poll most people would go for the strictest rules..
Trying to explain the concept of “armed police” to Americans is always rather amusing.
They really don’t understand how the vast majority of police in the UK don’t carry guns, and that those that do carry always loudly announce themselves as such.
Judging by the comments of some videos, they find the idea of armed officers who *don't* fire 5,000 rounds at suspects, at the drop of a hat, alarming.
Don't forget the insistence knife crime in the UK is really really high and that (somehow) means comparing the gun crime rate means nothing,
As it happens I don't know if our knife crime rate is that much higher than theirs (or higher at all), but even if someone loves their guns more than their first born you'd think they could perceive that guns and knives have different potentials.
If you want to really upset the pro gun types in the USA - talk to them about the gun control in the US that *works*. It keeps the guns in question out of crimes almost completely.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
"The arrest was carried out shortly after 21:00 BST by officers at Counter Terrorism Police North East and South Yorkshire Police, on behalf of the force.
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Presumably they’re the regional armed division who can best show up in serious numbers to pluck someone up quickly?
Glad they appear to have him in custody and aren’t looking for anyone else.
I can certainly see this is not an arrest you would want to risk cocking up.
Equally, a dead suspect with 18 bullet holes would be a bit of a political problem if armed officers cocked up...
In the show Criminal Minds an awful lot of episodes end with them just killing the suspects, though thankfully it is usually very clear they were guilty.
Of course, most episodes the perpetrator would also have been caught regardless of the efforts of the main cast, since they are mentally spiraling to the point they are just acting out in the open, so it is a bit weird in that respect
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Isn't that how the standards committee works? The most they can do is put the MP's fate in the hands of the voters and if they win a recall by election (or a recall petition fails) then there's no further sanction?
The standards committee enforce standards.
Legal penalties are enforced by the courts.
You really, really don't want to mix those two together.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Lucky is absolutely right in how it works in reality - winning an election works like a reset of all the yellow and red cards in politics. It really does, time and again over and over. You can pedantically argue this shouldn’t be the case, because it’s not logical, but you have to accept there is so much about how politics works, an awful lot about it, that is never strict to logic and yes, is even bizarre logic.
Do Lucky and me really have to list it all out for you in long post so that you lose the argument? Here’s the first gist: in politics you win based on Charisma, Celebrity and name recognition, not on any ability or proven record on being able to do the job you are being elected into or deliver on what you are actually promising. The second gist, voters cast more votes for you and you win based on what they think you aren’t rather than what you are, that again has absolutely no relevance to ability to do the job and deliver for voters nor is any form of making a logical decision with the vote and support given.
Politics and bizarre logic live together in the same house. Get real.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Isn't that how the standards committee works? The most they can do is put the MP's fate in the hands of the voters and if they win a recall by election (or a recall petition fails) then there's no further sanction?
Yes, the voters weigh in on it when the outcome of an investigation is known (if the parliamentary sanction even prompts a recall, which it wouldn't always).
I think Clacton would back Farage regardless, but some number of people would support him now whilst accused of not declaring his gifts properly, but wouldn't support him later if proven he had not declared gifts properly. It's easy to say 'Oh, I don't care if he did do it' before it is then actually confirmed.
(In reality a la Boris what happens is people attack and delay the process more than engage with the facts).
Doesn’t matter what the country thinks, it’s what Clacton thinks that matters.
For this particular folderol, that's true. But if we're thinking in terms of whether there will be a Reform government... the dislike many people have for Farage matters.
Then the problem goes like this. Without Farage, UKIP rapidly fell apart. He both attracts lots of devotees and lots of haters. But how do you run an organisation based on Führerprinzip without a Führer?
Yes. Clacton is a sideshow. We end up with either the same number of Reform MPs or one fewer. But the general election of 2028/9 is a different matter. There are four prongs to ensuring Reform and Farage have no part in government after it:
One is their absolute polling number, about 26% now. Generally not enough. Two is their polling number relative to the others. Three is tactical voting because of the intensity of dislike of Reform and Farage, and four is the Tories being unambiguous that they will not be in a government with Reform under any circumstances.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Weirdly, a primary school friend of mine (I haven't seen him for 40 years) posted a pro-Lowe line on facebook the other day, talking approvingly about his appearance on Joe Rogan. It was only the second time I had ever heard anyone outside this forum mention Rupert Lowe.
Oh dear. I think that 40 years needs to keep rolling.
It still seems bizarre as to the motive behind the murder .
Leave aside it's a well-known individual, what's the first port of call in a murder in the home? Friends or family or possibly someone else in their life.
Not that it matters and we don't need to know, but I'm not sure if the police are hinting that they do know what's gone or if they don't have a clue.
Or burglary etc
I can't find any stats for it, but I reckon murders by burglars are incredibly low.
About 10-20 a year. Very low.
The vast majority of domestic burglars target homes during the day when they believe the property is empty. Their primary motive is theft, not violence, and they purposefully try to avoid encountering residents. But in this case the property was not empty.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Isn't that how the standards committee works? The most they can do is put the MP's fate in the hands of the voters and if they win a recall by election (or a recall petition fails) then there's no further sanction?
Yes, the voters weigh in on it when the outcome of an investigation is known (if the parliamentary sanction even prompts a recall, which it wouldn't always).
I think Clacton would back Farage regardless, but some number of people would support him now whilst accused of not declaring his gifts properly, but wouldn't support him later if proven he had not declared gifts properly. It's easy to say 'Oh, I don't care if he did do it' before it is then actually confirmed.
(In reality a la Boris what happens is people attack and delay the process more than engage with the facts).
The nature of Reform support is such that the core will not shift from Reform except either to even sillier parties or by the slow attrition of getting tired of the Reform fad. So the assumption should be that Reform have a core of over 20-25% for the next general election. Parties who don't want Reform (that's all of them) should prioritise accordingly. They are easily beaten as long as mainstream parties stop emphasising the narcissism of small differences.
Doesn’t matter what the country thinks, it’s what Clacton thinks that matters.
For this particular folderol, that's true. But if we're thinking in terms of whether there will be a Reform government... the dislike many people have for Farage matters.
Then the problem goes like this. Without Farage, UKIP rapidly fell apart. He both attracts lots of devotees and lots of haters. But how do you run an organisation based on Führerprinzip without a Führer?
Yes. Clacton is a sideshow. We end up with either the same number of Reform MPs or one fewer. But the general election of 2028/9 is a different matter. There are four prongs to ensuring Reform and Farage have no part in government after it:
One is their absolute polling number, about 26% now. Generally not enough. Two is their polling number relative to the others. Three is tactical voting because of the intensity of dislike of Reform and Farage, and four is the Tories being unambiguous that they will not be in a government with Reform under any circumstances.
The fourth isn't going to happen which means that Tory anti-reform tactical votes are a complete non starter. Heck I think the damage has already done with the Tory reactions to the local council results..
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Lucky is absolutely right in how it works in reality - winning an election works like a reset of all the yellow and red cards in politics. It really does, time and again over and over. You can pedantically argue this shouldn’t be the case, because it’s not logical, but you have to accept there is so much about how politics works, an awful lot about it, that is never strict to logic and yes, is even bizarre logic.
Do Lucky and me really have to list it all out for you in long post so that you lose the argument? Here’s the first gist: in politics you win based on Charisma, Celebrity and name recognition, not on any ability or proven record on being able to do the job you are being elected into or deliver on what you are actually promising. The second gist, voters cast more votes for you and you win based on what they think you aren’t rather than what you are, that again has absolutely no relevance to ability to do the job and deliver for voters nor is any form of making a logical decision with the vote and support given.
Politics and bizarre logic live together in the same house. Get real.
Farage has the popularity to win the point locally regardless of his conduct, that is certainly true. The argument is really whether it was worth doing that now, vs later. My argument in favour of later is because doing so now doesn't halt the technical processes, so winning now delivers no additional be benefit to winning later, when the technical processes would be concluded.
Sure, he would probably win a second by-election (if one ever were to occur), but any election is a risk, why undertake one without need? The stated reason is to basically stop the haters hating, but that's also not reality (since the election has nothing to do with the rule following), so why not just say 'I've done nothing wrong, see you at the end of the process, and my constituents will I am sure back me then too'?
You get the benefit of proving your constituent support, without unnecessary work beforehand.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Several dodgy multi-million pound donations are orders of magnitude bigger issues than Lord Alli buying Starmer some new gear and glasses though...
All those in Reform decrying foreign money in British politics don't then get a pass when the smell of rotting fish comes from the head of their party.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not the only politician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
If only it were that Farage had simply resigned, I would wholeheartedly agree, Lucky.
Farage has raised the stakes in a different way, because he had to. Him threatening to resign would have been accepted with gusto - it would have made finding against him more likely. But if he wins big, giving him the ultimate sanction will mean being on the wrong side of the voters. It's clever.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
On that you do have a point, there’s plenty of large donations to all parties which we should agree are bad in principle.
Does the UK really want to go down the US route of very rich people buying elections? Personally I’d limit political donations to something like £1,000 a year per person and £10,000 per incorporated entity.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Several dodgy multi-million pound donations are orders of magnitude bigger issues than Lord Alli buying Starmer some new gear and glasses though...
All those in Reform decrying foreign money in British politics don't then get a pass when the smell of rotting fish comes from the head of their party.
Farage has received a minimum of £5m from someone in Thailand - if that isn't foreign money I don't know what foreign money is.
Reform seem to be implying that Farage is above and beyond the law and all that matters is what Clacton voters make of it .
What if this ended up with criminal proceedings are we now in a position where a politician can do anything and because the voters don’t care that’s okay .
Doesn’t matter what the country thinks, it’s what Clacton thinks that matters.
For this particular folderol, that's true. But if we're thinking in terms of whether there will be a Reform government... the dislike many people have for Farage matters.
Then the problem goes like this. Without Farage, UKIP rapidly fell apart. He both attracts lots of devotees and lots of haters. But how do you run an organisation based on Führerprinzip without a Führer?
Yes. Clacton is a sideshow. We end up with either the same number of Reform MPs or one fewer. But the general election of 2028/9 is a different matter. There are four prongs to ensuring Reform and Farage have no part in government after it:
One is their absolute polling number, about 26% now. Generally not enough. Two is their polling number relative to the others. Three is tactical voting because of the intensity of dislike of Reform and Farage, and four is the Tories being unambiguous that they will not be in a government with Reform under any circumstances.
The fourth isn't going to happen which means that Tory anti-reform tactical votes are a complete non starter. Heck I think the damage has already done with the Tory reactions to the local council results..
Yeah, Kemi's fucking stupid but she's not that fucking stupid. The tories only slender hope of being in government is to coalesce with the Fukkers. If they rule that out, what's the point of them?
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
On that you do have a point, there’s plenty of large donations to all parties which we should agree are bad in principle.
Does the UK really want to go down the US route of very rich people buying elections? Personally I’d limit political donations to something like £1,000 a year per person and £10,000 per incorporated entity.
I'm not sure on the amounts, but I have suggested as a starting point that anyone who donates money to a political party should be ineligible for an honour or peerage for 8 years or 2 parliamentary terms, whichever is longer, to avoid any suggestion of buying reputation or office.
It isn't a punishment as no one has to donate to a party, and if they want to become actively involved or honoured they can do so without money.
Lowering overall amounts for individuals and groups (including unions) also seems perfectly fair. If parties cannot manage their current operations on that level of donations, tough - become more popular so you get more, or cut back your operations rather than being reliant on getting a few million from individuals now and then.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Several dodgy multi-million pound donations are orders of magnitude bigger issues than Lord Alli buying Starmer some new gear and glasses though...
All those in Reform decrying foreign money in British politics don't then get a pass when the smell of rotting fish comes from the head of their party.
Lord Ali's glasses are a long way from the top of the list of the Starmer Government's moral turpitide. How about their cosy relationship with the PRC amd its commercial proxies across multiple touchpoints, managed by Mandelson (the meeting that wasn't)? We've barely scraped that surface, nor are we likely to. How about their completely inappropriate selection of US multinationals to be responsible for UK citizen's data? Is anyone tracing the financials on that? These are real decisions taken by an actual Government.
Doesn’t matter what the country thinks, it’s what Clacton thinks that matters.
For this particular folderol, that's true. But if we're thinking in terms of whether there will be a Reform government... the dislike many people have for Farage matters.
Then the problem goes like this. Without Farage, UKIP rapidly fell apart. He both attracts lots of devotees and lots of haters. But how do you run an organisation based on Führerprinzip without a Führer?
Yes. Clacton is a sideshow. We end up with either the same number of Reform MPs or one fewer. But the general election of 2028/9 is a different matter. There are four prongs to ensuring Reform and Farage have no part in government after it:
One is their absolute polling number, about 26% now. Generally not enough. Two is their polling number relative to the others. Three is tactical voting because of the intensity of dislike of Reform and Farage, and four is the Tories being unambiguous that they will not be in a government with Reform under any circumstances.
The fourth isn't going to happen which means that Tory anti-reform tactical votes are a complete non starter. Heck I think the damage has already done with the Tory reactions to the local council results..
Yeah, Kemi's fucking stupid but she's not that fucking stupid. The tories only slender hope of being in government is to coalesce with the Fukkers. If they rule that out, what's the point of them?
The Tories have more available votes to their right than their left - they are treading water hoping for Reform to stumble, so they can be top dog. The goal is to not beg for a pact, but to be ready to lead one if it happens, on their own terms.
In Swindon the local Tories came top in May and immediately said no deals with Reform, as they are trying to destroy the Tories. Then they cut a deal with Reform.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Might there not be an entirely logical reason for that?
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
I'm trying to decipher this.
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
It’s bizarre logic . This means any politician can do all manner of things and have a free pass if the public still vote for them . We’re not the USA thankfully!
Lucky is absolutely right in how it works in reality - winning an election works like a reset of all the yellow and red cards in politics. It really does, time and again over and over. You can pedantically argue this shouldn’t be the case, because it’s not logical, but you have to accept there is so much about how politics works, an awful lot about it, that is never strict to logic and yes, is even bizarre logic.
Do Lucky and me really have to list it all out for you in long post so that you lose the argument? Here’s the first gist: in politics you win based on Charisma, Celebrity and name recognition, not on any ability or proven record on being able to do the job you are being elected into or deliver on what you are actually promising. The second gist, voters cast more votes for you and you win based on what they think you aren’t rather than what you are, that again has absolutely no relevance to ability to do the job and deliver for voters nor is any form of making a logical decision with the vote and support given.
Politics and bizarre logic live together in the same house. Get real.
But that isn't how it works Rabbit.
Farage is picking his own jury. That simply isn't how justice operates outside of tinpot dictatorships.
You should know better. I am not sure Lucky necessarily does.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
Might there not be an entirely logical reason for that?
You mean in a similar way to how the Old Bill investigate villains rather than non-villains (unless one is the USDOJ or Kash Patel's FBI).
The Sovs have been at this caper for decades. They used to put 12.7mm YakBs on BTRs in Afghanistan. That gun is a good choice for technicals because it's the only gas operated multi-barrel heavy. It doesn't need any electrical or data systems from the Mi-24 to support its use.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not the only politician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
I think if you don't come up with an objective yardstick before an event you are vulnerable to being manipulated by spin, or to accusations that you are spinning yourself, so I think it is worth doing. What do you think of my attempt?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Tony Soprano would argue that the current scrutiny of his family is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other middle class families in New Jersey.
Is there going to be a by-election in South Carolina for the vacant Senate seat?
He was due to stand for re-election this year in November.
The State Governor, Henry McMaster (R) will appoint an interim Senator to serve until January, and there will be a special Republican primary to decide who is on the ballot at the mid-terms.
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Dennis Nilson would argue that the current scrutiny of him is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other civil servants.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not thepolitician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
Put simply the difference between Farage and Starmer is Farage is a traitor and Starmer is not.
The authorities have to progress in measured ways, so they don't put it so starkly.
Crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was granted a lengthy pause in a legal battle because of severe illness, a period in which he gave £12mn to Nigel Farage’s Reform UK, court documents show
That is funny, plausible even, but how do we know it's not AI generated?
Because, as Dura points out above, there’s a long history of the vatniks doing stupid sh!t like this. It doesn’t look AI, and XAI detector didn’t flag it.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
The Sovs have been at this caper for decades. They used to put 12.7mm YakBs on BTRs in Afghanistan. That gun is a good choice for technicals because it's the only gas operated multi-barrel heavy. It doesn't need any electrical or data systems from the Mi-24 to support its use.
That is funny, plausible even, but how do we know it's not AI generated?
Because, as Dura points out above, there’s a long history of the vatniks doing stupid sh!t like this. It doesn’t look AI, and XAI detector didn’t flag it.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
It should be made crystal clear by the relevant authorities that the investigation will recommence, and indeed be extended in light of more recent disclosures, if and when Farage becomes a member of Parliament again.
I am sure it will, however, I suspect that it will not remove Farage as an MP, if his victory in Clacton is a decisive one (and to answer the question above, I don't really know what the numbers behind that would look like). Farage has raised the stakes. He's not thepolitician to do this - Starmer did it (I think over a lockdown issue?) when he said he would resign if the police acted in a particular way, and they stopped short, it seemed because they didn't want to be the cause of such a big political upset.
Put simply the difference between Farage and Starmer is Farage is a traitor and Starmer is not.
The authorities have to progress in measured ways, so they don't put it so starkly.
Put simply, you're wrong.
Starmer tried to give away sovereign territory housing a key USA base, to a state firmly allied with China, and commit the UK to pay tens of billions to hire it back. He also made assurances that he would give the go ahead to a Chinese super-embassy that could have been used to tap into vital national communications, house prisoners, and house quasi military forces in the heart of London.
Those are just a starter for ten, I could happily continue, but had he achieved either or both, he would have been by orders of magnitude a more successful traitor to the British State than any in history.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was Farage out of the political fray? Wasn't he honorary president and majority owner of the party? He may have stepped back, but he hadn't stepped back far... after all he was still able to become candidate for Clacton pretty much at the drop of a hat.
Let’s say the unimaginable happened and the Bin beat Farage I’m wondering how international media would report it and especially in the USA many are unaware of our very quintessentially British bizarre candidates that turn up to contest by-elections .
The US online right prefer Restore (and thanks to Musk think they are the real opposition force in the UK), so may be more inclined to poke fun at Farage along with any on the left who are aware of him.
It's amusing to see the American online Right convinced that Brits want looser gun control laws.
You can tell there's some chicanery going on with some accounts pretending to be Brits telling them that's true.
One issue that united 99.99% of Brits is the desire to NOT loosen gun control laws.
Weirdly, a primary school friend of mine (I haven't seen him for 40 years) posted a pro-Lowe line on facebook the other day, talking approvingly about his appearance on Joe Rogan. It was only the second time I had ever heard anyone outside this forum mention Rupert Lowe.
Oh dear. I think that 40 years needs to keep rolling.
My memory of him - and, to be fair he was onky 11, but still - is that he wasn't the best at distinguishing reality from fantasy.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was it within 1 year of him becoming an MP?
If it was he needed to have declared it and Farage didn't.
That's literally all that matters - everything is you trying to justify something for reasons I haven't got a clue about except you seem to love really strange american right wing views.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
"Before he entered the political fray"
Come on, pull the other one: its got bells on.
Farage has never left the political arena. Which is why the £5million reads as dodgy to the majority of the country. It doesn't matter whether he was legally required to register it at the time - the fact that he & his gifter carefully timed the gift to sit outside the legally required reporting period speaks volumes all by itself. No one seriously believes that Farage wasn't contemplating entering politics officially at the point that payment was made & therefore the payment fails the sniff test for the average voter regardless of the legalities.
Farage may have made sure he stayed on the right side of the law but everything about these payments feels seedy.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform received more than twice that from Harborne and did declare it. Harborne separately gave Nigel Farage personally £5 million which was not declared. That is what the PSC is investigating and what has led to this by-election. As I've said before, it looks like a storm in a teacup.
What is more serious is what has emerged since Farage called the by-election in regard to the Posh George Cottrell donations that may not have been properly declared, and may have been illegally given, from a person whose colourful past (to employ one of those euphemisms Dura_Ace referred to earlier) includes prison in America for either money laundering or more likely straight theft from the IRS.
As for the other parties, if Reform had a dirty tricks research department it would concentrate on Bernie Ecclestone and Labour, and the various Tory Treasurers and donors who later appeared on honours lists – in other words, cases where there might be a quid pro quo rather than just gossip about gold wallpaper and free glasses. But Reform is nothing beyond Farage's ego and some friends he has not yet fallen out with but give it time.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
"before he re-entered the political fray!"
Seriously! The man has been a prominent UKPolitician for since he left the Tories in the huff over Mastricht in 1992!
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was it within 1 year of him becoming an MP?
If it was he needed to have declared it and Farage didn't.
That's literally all that matters - everything is you trying to justify something for reasons I haven't got a clue about except you seem to love really strange american right wing views.
Actually I am not trying to justify it, and you and Stuart are wasting your time arguing on that score. He may have fallen outside the rules, and you may have a point, but "If they [the conservative party] had received 5 million and not declared it" is still not a remotely valid comparison.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was Farage out of the political fray? Wasn't he honorary president and majority owner of the party? He may have stepped back, but he hadn't stepped back far... after all he was still able to become candidate for Clacton pretty much at the drop of a hat.
I work in Finance. If I received a huge personal gift it would be illegal. Not declaring even the offer would be a serious issue. And my employers would be getting a full trawl by all the agencies.
"It was personal, so it has nothing to do with my day job" wouldn't even get a giggle out of the investigators.
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was it within 1 year of him becoming an MP?
If it was he needed to have declared it and Farage didn't.
That's literally all that matters - everything is you trying to justify something for reasons I haven't got a clue about except you seem to love really strange american right wing views.
Actually I am not trying to justify it, and you and Stuart are wasting your time arguing on that score. He may have fallen outside the rules, and you may have a point, but "If they [the conservative party] had received 5 million and not declared it" is still not a remotely valid comparison.
Yes, it is. If you knew anything about the anti-corruption laws in this country, you'd know that who actually receives the money doesn't protect you from the allegations or consequences. Because the "personal gift" thing is childishly common.
Crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was granted a lengthy pause in a legal battle because of severe illness, a period in which he gave £12mn to Nigel Farage’s Reform UK, court documents show
Crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was granted a lengthy pause in a legal battle because of severe illness, a period in which he gave £12mn to Nigel Farage’s Reform UK, court documents show
Would we be entirely surprised if the ultimate source of some or all of these donations turns out to be Russian?
Latest on Reform sleaze:
* British security services believe Russia and other bad actors have been attempting to penetrate Reform and UKIP for over a decade * They believe Nathan Gill was not the only Russian Reform target * Montenegro is of particular concern to UK agencies
I think 'the establishment' have gone off a bit soon on this one. They always seem to do this - pile in so it all gets lost in what appears to be a tidal wave of witch hunt. Farage has chosen the battleground (Clacton) and the other parties have chosen (by default) Binface to go up against him - a very weak choice given that he is a made up character and cannot be an MP.
If Farage wins a powerful byelection victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary commitee to send him back to face another one. I can see why those who are against Reform want to do this now to finish him off, but these additional allegations, especially the intelligence services weighing in (we have already had the police), are somewhat feeding the narrative. It also serves Farage to have it all out now, because if it's all out now, not only can he claim the voters of Clacton knew it all and still want him as their MP, it also means there's nothing left for any fresh interventions between now and the next election. It feels a bit like Napoleon sending in the Old Guard at Waterloo.
Good morning
'If Farage wins a powerful by election victory, that makes it very hard for a parliamentary committee to send him back to face another one'
This is an election to try to stop a legitimate investigation into Farage and his funding, and it most certainly will not stop the standards investigation reconvening if he wins, no matter the size of the result and nor should it
Why does Farage expect to be held to lesser standards than other mps, and if he has nothing to hide why on earth start this charade ?
I am not saying that he has nothing to hide. I think Farage would argue that the current scrutiny of Reform is well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties.
No, it isn't.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Reform did not receive 5 million and fail to declare it. Afaicr, Farage received 5 million before he re-entered the political fray, and failed to declare it retrospectively. Let us try to be accurate.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Was it within 1 year of him becoming an MP?
If it was he needed to have declared it and Farage didn't.
That's literally all that matters - everything is you trying to justify something for reasons I haven't got a clue about except you seem to love really strange american right wing views.
Actually I am not trying to justify it, and you and Stuart are wasting your time arguing on that score. He may have fallen outside the rules, and you may have a point, but "If they [the conservative party] had received 5 million and not declared it" is still not a remotely valid comparison.
I think asking where this significant amount of money came from is valid and not as you claim is "well beyond the scrutiny applied to other parties."
Crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was granted a lengthy pause in a legal battle because of severe illness, a period in which he gave £12mn to Nigel Farage’s Reform UK, court documents show
Crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was granted a lengthy pause in a legal battle because of severe illness, a period in which he gave £12mn to Nigel Farage’s Reform UK, court documents show
Comments
There is no information to suggest the attack was terrorism-related, Longman told reporters on Sunday."
An interesting juxtaposition.... Counter Terrorism Police North East needed the overtime?
Binface doesn't need to defuse the criticism of him as an establishment stooge anyway, because he's just a joke candidate. Yes, one the establishment parties are enjoying 'supporting' in this contest, but he doesn't need to be criticised on a serious basis (a mistake Reform, but not Farage, are making) because he's already a joke, nor does he need to try to dispel such criticism because he's just there to get a bit of attention and fun.
If anything the bigger risk to Binface would be he tries too hard, and overdoes his schtick as a result.
Glad they appear to have him in custody and aren’t looking for anyone else.
The explanation given was that that the suspect might have been armed and Counter Terrorism Officers were deployed just in case as they are routinely armed.
We shouldn't forget a lot of regular police were deployed in city centres for the England match viewings
You seem to be saying that if a politician calls a byelection and wins handsomely against -say- a man wearing a bin on his head, then it means that any previous crimes he may have committed should be forgiven.
Do I have that right?
"You know how when Europeans comment on American politics they do so without the full context, and usually end up interpreting it all through the lens of their own national political battles? Exactly."
And we have the benefit of a lot more exposure to US media and political reporting than they do of ours.
They thought it was a ruse at first.
They thought it was unbelievable that a G7 leader would be out campaigning for such a minor election that they weren't even standing in.
https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mqgvpbkfzk2x
Point is you are right - Not that it matters and we don't need to know right now. Why would anyone even want to speculate, build conspiracy theories, make political points about it right now. It’s just so sad and horrific end to someone. It’s horrible. Now is only the time for prayers.
They really don’t understand how the vast majority of police in the UK don’t carry guns, and that those that do carry always loudly announce themselves as such.
It's a fascinating mix.
If it were to be anything like that, then there would be no political motive.
And anyway it's sail for transatlantic travel.
Had we lost last night, I'd have 100% supported them vs Argentina.
It was just a bit early, since the media stories won't stop about the funding whatever the result (and indeed, even if an investigation clears him), so what benefit to fanning the flames on the story without a need?
As it happens I don't know if our knife crime rate is that much higher than theirs (or higher at all), but even if someone loves their guns more than their first born you'd think they could perceive that guns and knives have different potentials.
Equally, a dead suspect with 18 bullet holes would be a bit of a political problem if armed officers cocked up...
I’ll try and watch the Rogan interview today or tomorrow, but it’s two hours’ long as Rogan’s podcasts tend to be. 2h is actually a pretty short one by Rogan’s standards, many are over 3h.
There’s a lot of fringe British figures that have travelled across the pond and gained some sympathy, for example a lot of the American right think that “Tommy” is a journalist rather than an agitator, and figures like Carl Benjamin (Sargon of Akkad), while he’s moderated his views somewhat compared to a decade ago, still attracts quite an American audience for his podcasts.
So it only applies if you are in the Lords and Faraage would have to wear the jousting helm as well.
There's a whole story bubbling away that could burst (or be nothing):
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/fbi-investigates-argentina-football-association-alleged-money-laundering-in-u-s-2026/
Note where the money laundering is said to be taking place and who plays there, no idea if just a coincidence.
The French journalist Romain Molina has been covering this, saying FIFA are protecting AFA
https://x.com/Romain_Molina/status/2075960274742358139
Overview:
https://x.com/UtdMaI/status/2075993761264386435?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
It's Argentina, corruption is expected, so a lot of this would not be a surprise to many Argentinians.
Of course, most episodes the perpetrator would also have been caught regardless of the efforts of the main cast, since they are mentally spiraling to the point they are just acting out in the open, so it is a bit weird in that respect
Legal penalties are enforced by the courts.
You really, really don't want to mix those two together.
Do Lucky and me really have to list it all out for you in long post so that you lose the argument? Here’s the first gist: in politics you win based on Charisma, Celebrity and name recognition, not on any ability or proven record on being able to do the job you are being elected into or deliver on what you are actually promising. The second gist, voters cast more votes for you and you win based on what they think you aren’t rather than what you are, that again has absolutely no relevance to ability to do the job and deliver for voters nor is any form of making a logical decision with the vote and support given.
Politics and bizarre logic live together in the same house. Get real.
I think Clacton would back Farage regardless, but some number of people would support him now whilst accused of not declaring his gifts properly, but wouldn't support him later if proven he had not declared gifts properly. It's easy to say 'Oh, I don't care if he did do it' before it is then actually confirmed.
(In reality a la Boris what happens is people attack and delay the process more than engage with the facts).
One is their absolute polling number, about 26% now. Generally not enough. Two is their polling number relative to the others. Three is tactical voting because of the intensity of dislike of Reform and Farage, and four is the Tories being unambiguous that they will not be in a government with Reform under any circumstances.
The vast majority of domestic burglars target homes during the day when they believe the property is empty. Their primary motive is theft, not violence, and they purposefully try to avoid encountering residents. But in this case the property was not empty.
Sure, he would probably win a second by-election (if one ever were to occur), but any election is a risk, why undertake one without need? The stated reason is to basically stop the haters hating, but that's also not reality (since the election has nothing to do with the rule following), so why not just say 'I've done nothing wrong, see you at the end of the process, and my constituents will I am sure back me then too'?
You get the benefit of proving your constituent support, without unnecessary work beforehand.
All those in Reform decrying foreign money in British politics don't then get a pass when the smell of rotting fish comes from the head of their party.
Does the UK really want to go down the US route of very rich people buying elections? Personally I’d limit political donations to something like £1,000 a year per person and £10,000 per incorporated entity.
Clock is ticking on that one.
What if this ended up with criminal proceedings are we now in a position where a politician can do anything and because the voters don’t care that’s okay .
This is why the USA is in such a dark place .
It isn't a punishment as no one has to donate to a party, and if they want to become actively involved or honoured they can do so without money.
Lowering overall amounts for individuals and groups (including unions) also seems perfectly fair. If parties cannot manage their current operations on that level of donations, tough - become more popular so you get more, or cut back your operations rather than being reliant on getting a few million from individuals now and then.
Guess what happened next?
https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/2076257881465192450
🤣
In Swindon the local Tories came top in May and immediately said no deals with Reform, as they are trying to destroy the Tories. Then they cut a deal with Reform.
The level of scrutiny relates to behaviour.
When the Conservative Party recently received an ineligible donation - from a bank in the UK, but one that was incorporated in Germany and didn't have a UK Ltd - they returned the money immediately, after informing the Electoral Commission and doing the required anti-money laundering checks on the money.
If they had received 5 million and not declared it, then they would be getting banner headlines.
Farage is picking his own jury. That simply isn't how justice operates outside of tinpot dictatorships.
You should know better. I am not sure Lucky necessarily does.
https://bsky.app/profile/specialkhersoncat.bsky.social/post/3mqgywpggjk2j
The State Governor, Henry McMaster (R) will appoint an interim Senator to serve until January, and there will be a special Republican primary to decide who is on the ballot at the mid-terms.
https://www.foxcarolina.com/2026/07/12/what-happens-now-lindsey-grahams-senate-seat/
The authorities have to progress in measured ways, so they don't put it so starkly.
Probably a GB News producer.
I remember very little (no) scrutiny when Sunak acted to enrich Moderna, a company he was absolutely aware his own investment portfolio had significant shares in. The big parties know how to play the game and keep things within the letter of the rules, but somehow, palms end up being thoroughly greased, and the taxpayer keeps picking up the tab. I don't know whether Reform will be better, but I certainly don't think they'll be worse.
Starmer tried to give away sovereign territory housing a key USA base, to a state firmly allied with China, and commit the UK to pay tens of billions to hire it back. He also made assurances that he would give the go ahead to a Chinese super-embassy that could have been used to tap into vital national communications, house prisoners, and house quasi military forces in the heart of London.
Those are just a starter for ten, I could happily continue, but had he achieved either or both, he would have been by orders of magnitude a more successful traitor to the British State than any in history.
If it was he needed to have declared it and Farage didn't.
That's literally all that matters - everything is you trying to justify something for reasons I haven't got a clue about except you seem to love really strange american right wing views.
Come on, pull the other one: its got bells on.
Farage has never left the political arena. Which is why the £5million reads as dodgy to the majority of the country. It doesn't matter whether he was legally required to register it at the time - the fact that he & his gifter carefully timed the gift to sit outside the legally required reporting period speaks volumes all by itself. No one seriously believes that Farage wasn't contemplating entering politics officially at the point that payment was made & therefore the payment fails the sniff test for the average voter regardless of the legalities.
Farage may have made sure he stayed on the right side of the law but everything about these payments feels seedy.
What is more serious is what has emerged since Farage called the by-election in regard to the Posh George Cottrell donations that may not have been properly declared, and may have been illegally given, from a person whose colourful past (to employ one of those euphemisms Dura_Ace referred to earlier) includes prison in America for either money laundering or more likely straight theft from the IRS.
As for the other parties, if Reform had a dirty tricks research department it would concentrate on Bernie Ecclestone and Labour, and the various Tory Treasurers and donors who later appeared on honours lists – in other words, cases where there might be a quid pro quo rather than just gossip about gold wallpaper and free glasses. But Reform is nothing beyond Farage's ego and some friends he has not yet fallen out with but give it time.
Seriously! The man has been a prominent UKPolitician for since he left the Tories in the huff over Mastricht in 1992!
Peter.
"It was personal, so it has nothing to do with my day job" wouldn't even get a giggle out of the investigators.
Having a trial suspended due to ill health while still taking an active role in politics looks as dodgy as Fuk though.
A drug pusher caught for speeding deserves what s/he gets.
There are plenty of serious allegations. This does not look like one of them.