At least one Conservative politician is prepared to think and write about factors beyond the next election and to consider policy on the basis of a philosophy of ideas as well as learning from the past. Don't believe me? Well try this from Douglas Carswell:
Parts I through IV are a bit of a history lesson, worth reading, though because they set up where he is coming from. Part V is the meat and rather good, unless you happen to be David Cameron or George Osborne.
"It's the personalised nastiness towards Cameron which is strange.."
Oh, come off it, Mr. Navabi! Farage says he doesn't believe Cameron has any guiding principles other than furthering his own career. Big deal. Lots of people, including me, have been saying the same thing for years.
Cameron was the chap who made a fuss about cycling but forgot to mention his chauffeur was following along behind with his shoes and paperwork. Remember that little gem from the past. If Cameron wants to declare himself to be the Heir to Blair and behave like a third-rate PR spiv then one shouldn't be surprised if people take him on his own terms.
"The way I do politics is to say what I actually think. Sometimes people strongly disagree with me. But I hope that everyone realises that my opinions are quite straightforward and are based on profound beliefs. Unlike Mr Cameron’s they are not changed more often than many people change their socks.
Indeed, I sometimes wonder if the Prime Minister actually believes in anything much at all, apart from furthering his own career prospects. That’s why I find it so laughable when people blame me for him being in the doldrums. I’ll take my share of the blame – or should that be the credit? – but most of it he has brought on himself."
What an unpleasant person he is.
His own beliefs are so straightforward, profound and unchanging that the manifesto which he helped launch with two colleagues in April 2010, and of which he co-authored the preface, had become 'drivel' by January 2014.
Farage may be an unpleasant person, I wouldn't know, but his comments about Cameron will strike a chord with many.
The difference is, if by 2020 there is a referendum on Britain's involvement with the EU, and even more so if the answer is to leave, Farage will have made an indelible mark on British politics, whilst Cameron would have been a wishy washy King of compromise. He has wildly flip flopped his views on homosexuality, green energy, religion all in the name of spin.
What has Farage flip flopped on? HS2 (at a push)?
He has made it his lifes work to get Britain out of the EU, and is making progress. What is Cameron's driving ambition? To make sure his mates are in cushy jobs?
At least one Conservative politician is prepared to think and write about factors beyond the next election and to consider policy on the basis of a philosophy of ideas as well as learning from the past. Don't believe me? Well try this from Douglas Carswell:
Parts I through IV are a bit of a history lesson, worth reading, though because they set up where he is coming from. Part V is the meat and rather good, unless you happen to be David Cameron or George Osborne.
Will give that a read. Carswell is one of a small number of MP's that genuinely seem to put conviction before ambition
"The way I do politics is to say what I actually think. Sometimes people strongly disagree with me. But I hope that everyone realises that my opinions are quite straightforward and are based on profound beliefs. Unlike Mr Cameron’s they are not changed more often than many people change their socks.
Indeed, I sometimes wonder if the Prime Minister actually believes in anything much at all, apart from furthering his own career prospects. That’s why I find it so laughable when people blame me for him being in the doldrums. I’ll take my share of the blame – or should that be the credit? – but most of it he has brought on himself."
What an unpleasant person he is.
His own beliefs are so straightforward, profound and unchanging that the manifesto which he helped launch with two colleagues in April 2010, and of which he co-authored the preface, had become 'drivel' by January 2014.
Farage may be an unpleasant person, I wouldn't know, but his comments about Cameron will strike a chord with many.
The difference is, if by 2020 there is a referendum on Britain's involvement with the EU, and even more so if the answer is to leave, Farage will have made an indelible mark on British politics, whilst Cameron would have been a wishy washy King of compromise. He has wildly flip flopped his views on homosexuality, green energy, religion all in the name of spin.
What has Farage flip flopped on? HS2 (at a push)?
He has made it his lifes work to get Britain out of the EU, and is making progress. What is Cameron's driving ambition? To make sure his mates are in cushy jobs?
Without commenting on the politics of either man; it's much easier to criticise from opposition, than to make difficult decisions (which sometimes involve compromise) in power.
Why act so precious about it? Cameron has doubtless made similarly ludicrous claims about his own politics and that of his opponents.
It's the personalised nastiness towards Cameron which is strange. I get the very strong impression from UKIP, and Farage in particular, that they simply want to damage Cameron personally, even if as a by-product that damages the country (and indeed sets back their own cause, or what they present as their own cause).
At least when Labour make personal attacks, it's in the hope that it will help them form the government.
While I agree with you the kipper Cameron attacks are fairly mindless, Cameron himself is hardly faultless with his fruitcakes etc, ripostes. I just wish both of them would let it drop and get back to politics.
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Let's go back in time a bit to EU laws like the Working Time Directive or the equal gender pay laws they passed, a Labour MEP would presumably vote in favour but a Tory MEP may not. With EU health and safety directives you might have party splits too, stuff like that.
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
It is a question to which more than 65% of the electorate have yet to find an answer. Even those who do vote are generally supporting the team than thinking about the EU Parliament. I am honestly not sure if that will be enough for me this time. It's pointless.
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Bit difficult to summarise, but the party websites give quite a lot to consider. Whether you care about the things they do is of course up to you. But for instance there is a free trade deal in negotiation between the EU and the USA which is likely to come up for a vote in the next EP. It may be more or less aggressively free trade - it might phase out various competing subsidies (as in aerospace, Boeing vs Airbus), it might throw open public services to compulsory private competition, it might fail altogether. Generally speaking, I'd guess you can expect Tories to vote for it enthusiastically (free market yeah man), UKIP to vote against (damned EU has no business deciding if we open our markets), Labour and LibDems to exclude the privatisation bits but otherwise vote in favour, Greens to vote against (more bloody free market). There will be no national parliament votes on this - it will be entirely decided through the European Parliament and Council of Ministers (which means governments get a vote but national parliaments don't).
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Bit difficult to summarise, but the party websites give quite a lot to consider. Whether you care about the things they do is of course up to you. But for instance there is a free trade deal in negotiation between the EU and the USA which is likely to come up for a vote in the next EP. It may be more or less aggressively free trade - it might phase out various competing subsidies (as in aerospace, Boeing vs Airbus), it might throw open public services to compulsory private competition, it might fail altogether. Generally speaking, I'd guess you can expect Tories to vote for it enthusiastically (free market yeah man), UKIP to vote against (damned EU has no business deciding if we open our markets), Labour and LibDems to exclude the privatisation bits but otherwise vote in favour, Greens to vote against (more bloody free market). There will be no national parliament votes on this - it will be entirely decided through the European Parliament and Council of Ministers (which means governments get a vote but national parliaments don't).
Any idea why Labour didn't mention the EU or Europe in their PEB Nick?
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Bit difficult to summarise, but the party websites give quite a lot to consider. Whether you care about the things they do is of course up to you. But for instance there is a free trade deal in negotiation between the EU and the USA which is likely to come up for a vote in the next EP. It may be more or less aggressively free trade - it might phase out various competing subsidies (as in aerospace, Boeing vs Airbus), it might throw open public services to compulsory private competition, it might fail altogether. Generally speaking, I'd guess you can expect Tories to vote for it enthusiastically (free market yeah man), UKIP to vote against (damned EU has no business deciding if we open our markets), Labour and LibDems to exclude the privatisation bits but otherwise vote in favour, Greens to vote against (more bloody free market). There will be no national parliament votes on this - it will be entirely decided through the European Parliament and Council of Ministers (which means governments get a vote but national parliaments don't).
You think the UKP MEPs will vote? Is there no end to your delusions about the European Parliament?
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
So not only do we have a poster showing an entirely fictional situation of a British builder reduced to begging by immigrant labour, it turns out that the actor depicting the scene was an immigrant, presumably depriving some poor homegrown thespian of his chance to find his motivation in this challenging role.
I believe the standard cry of the right on such occasions is "you couldn't make it up".
Why act so precious about it? Cameron has doubtless made similarly ludicrous claims about his own politics and that of his opponents.
It's the personalised nastiness towards Cameron which is strange. I get the very strong impression from UKIP, and Farage in particular, that they simply want to damage Cameron personally, even if as a by-product that damages the country (and indeed sets back their own cause, or what they present as their own cause).
At least when Labour make personal attacks, it's in the hope that it will help them form the government.
If you insult people, as Cameron has UKIP, you should expect consequences. I don't know about you, but in my work and other life, I make a point of trying not to make enemies. Nobody needs an anti-network. Nobody I consider to be an arse knows as much.
Obviously I twit UKIPpers, Nats and other buffoons on line, but that's online and I'm not trying to become or remain PM.
If Cameron's judgment is so poor that he sneers at UKIP, who then come out with comments about him in return that will resonate and may cost him votes, he can have no complaint and has nobody but himself to blame.
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Bit difficult to summarise, but the party websites give quite a lot to consider. Whether you care about the things they do is of course up to you. But for instance there is a free trade deal in negotiation between the EU and the USA which is likely to come up for a vote in the next EP. It may be more or less aggressively free trade - it might phase out various competing subsidies (as in aerospace, Boeing vs Airbus), it might throw open public services to compulsory private competition, it might fail altogether. Generally speaking, I'd guess you can expect Tories to vote for it enthusiastically (free market yeah man), UKIP to vote against (damned EU has no business deciding if we open our markets), Labour and LibDems to exclude the privatisation bits but otherwise vote in favour, Greens to vote against (more bloody free market). There will be no national parliament votes on this - it will be entirely decided through the European Parliament and Council of Ministers (which means governments get a vote but national parliaments don't).
Any idea why Labour didn't mention the EU or Europe in their PEB Nick?
Not seen the broadcast, but it does strike me as somewhat novel that a PEB for next month’s European elections should make zero reference to either ‘Europe’ or the EU. - I wonder which other party will follow this peculiar trend?
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Bit difficult to summarise, but the party websites give quite a lot to consider. Whether you care about the things they do is of course up to you. But for instance there is a free trade deal in negotiation between the EU and the USA which is likely to come up for a vote in the next EP. It may be more or less aggressively free trade - it might phase out various competing subsidies (as in aerospace, Boeing vs Airbus), it might throw open public services to compulsory private competition, it might fail altogether. Generally speaking, I'd guess you can expect Tories to vote for it enthusiastically (free market yeah man), UKIP to vote against (damned EU has no business deciding if we open our markets), Labour and LibDems to exclude the privatisation bits but otherwise vote in favour, Greens to vote against (more bloody free market). There will be no national parliament votes on this - it will be entirely decided through the European Parliament and Council of Ministers (which means governments get a vote but national parliaments don't).
Why didn't the Labour PEB highlight any of these issues? There was no mention of the EU at all.
Asking a naive question, what is the point of the Euro elections?
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
Let's go back in time a bit to EU laws like the Working Time Directive or the equal gender pay laws they passed, a Labour MEP would presumably vote in favour but a Tory MEP may not. With EU health and safety directives you might have party splits too, stuff like that.
But all MEPs by definition must either be federasts or an ineffective splinter movement like UKIP. By engaging in a (farcical) vote on the Working Time Directive at all they're harming the UK's interests. If they're so outvoted by all the other federasts anyway, what's the point of them regardless of colour? Even if every British MEP had been UKIP we'd have got the Working Time Directive anyway based on French and German votes.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I have already said a number of times that I am nervous. Just for you I will say it again: I am nervous.
A few nerves, though, are generally good. Complacency isn't - yet given the ridiculous responses from many Tories on here to one poll (which is out of line with many others, and which is subject up up weighing of the Tory score) that is exactly the problem with them.
It is often said that the Tories have but two states of mind: complacency and panic. Never a truer word.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Perfectly good answer, leading you to make the same points again and ignore the Zimbabwean one.
I believe the policy will be designed to enable the government to pick and choose who they let in based on merit, rather than just letting anyone in regardless.
"Harry Phibbs @harryph Looks like more @TheGreenParty than @UKIP candidates in the council elections in London. Also lots of wards @LibDems not contesting."
twitter.com/harryph/status/459739336578445312
The YouGov local-London poll was: Green 3%, LD 12%, UKIP 9%
So not only do we have a poster showing an entirely fictional situation of a British builder reduced to begging by immigrant labour, it turns out that the actor depicting the scene was an immigrant, presumably depriving some poor homegrown thespian of his chance to find his motivation in this challenging role.
I believe the standard cry of the right on such occasions is "you couldn't make it up".
Tears of laughter ?
By the way if one looks at http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html there is a sliver where not only does Labour get most seats if they score equal to the Conservatives but they also obtain a majority.
It is a far more likely scenario (A true 66-1 maybe?) shot than the 1000-1+ shot of Lab Most votes, Con most seats.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
"EXCLUSIVE / A group of pro-Europe British Conservatives has decided to launch a new party to stand in the upcoming European elections as an alternative to David Cameron’s Conservatives … 4 FREEDOMs Party (UK EPP)"
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
CBI has to eat large humble pie before it ran out of members. Scottish independence: CBI reverses referendum stance Business lobby group the CBI has reversed its position as a registered campaigner against Scottish independence. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
I have already said a number of times that I am nervous. Just for you I will say it again: I am nervous.
A few nerves, though, are generally good. Complacency isn't - yet given the ridiculous responses from many Tories on here to one poll (which is out of line with many others, and which is subject up up weighing of the Tory score) that is exactly the problem with them.
It is often said that the Tories have but two states of mind: complacency and panic. Never a truer word.
There weren't many comments at all on the poll and your unsubtle efforts to criticize the weighting, etc of the one poll you don't like is pretty lame.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
Under a hypothetical UKIP govt I would imagine
(a) if he was here already it would be fine (b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Perfectly good answer, leading you to make the same points again and ignore the Zimbabwean one.
I believe the policy will be designed to enable the government to pick and choose who they let in based on merit, rather than just letting anyone in regardless.
But what is 'on merit'?
This matters. The industry I work in is despertely short of skilled people. Any change that would make it harder for us to recruit and get trained staff would not be good.
So when you say things like: "Skilled immigration, not mass immigration", we need to know what it means.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Racist stereotype of Romanians noted
Good point, and fair enough. Apologies to anyone I may have offended.
I'll get one of my Romanian friends to scold me before we share a bottle of Țuică.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
Under a hypothetical UKIP govt I would imagine
(a) if he was here already it would be fine (b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
'Choose', or allow to be selected according to a points system, that doesn't take race or country of origin into account? There is a difference.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
But what is 'on merit'?
This matters. The industry I work in is despertely short of skilled people. Any change that would make it harder for us to recruit and get trained staff would not be good.
So when you say things like: "Skilled immigration, not mass immigration", we need to know what it means.
Sadly, it doesn't look as if you have a clue.
Why do you have to make everything descend into bitching and name calling instead of debating? We disagree, fine.
I am not a UKIP politician and so cant tell you what their definition would be. I try to offer an explanation and you have to get sarcy, because you disagree with the policy.
My own idea would be that if an industry was desperately short of skilled people, then immigrants with the relevant skills would find it easier to pass any VISA requirements than those with skills that the UK already has a plentiful supply of.
I wouldn't have thought UKIPs plan would be much different, but who knows?
Do you honestly expect me to go through a list of what makes the cut and what doesn't, when its not me that makes the policy or has any contribution to it?!
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
Under a hypothetical UKIP govt I would imagine
(a) if he was here already it would be fine (b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
'Choose', or allow to be selected according to a points system, that doesn't take race or country of origin into account? There is a difference.
Points system I would have thought.
UKIP don't ever mention race as an issue. They want to stop mass immigration from a continent that is by and large the same race as the majority of British people.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Racist stereotype of Romanians noted
Good point, and fair enough. Apologies to anyone I may have offended.
I'll get one of my Romanian friends to scold me before we share a bottle of Țuică.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
Under a hypothetical UKIP govt I would imagine
(a) if he was here already it would be fine (b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
'Choose', or allow to be selected according to a points system, that doesn't take race or country of origin into account? There is a difference.
Points system I would have thought.
UKIP don't ever mention race as an issue. They want to stop mass immigration from a continent that is by and large the same race as the majority of British people.
So, mass immigration from outside Europe isn't a problem?
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
So it's perfectly OK for a Bulgarian to stay if he worked for a stockbroker and married an English lady?
What do you mean "to stay"?
To live and work here without risk of being driven off the White Cliffs and into La Manche by Nige?
Under a hypothetical UKIP govt I would imagine
(a) if he was here already it would be fine (b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
'Choose', or allow to be selected according to a points system, that doesn't take race or country of origin into account? There is a difference.
Points system I would have thought.
UKIP don't ever mention race as an issue. They want to stop mass immigration from a continent that is by and large the same race as the majority of British people.
So, mass immigration from outside Europe isn't a problem?
Are you trolling? What's the point?
Mass immigration is a problem wherever it comes from... Mass immigration of Essex boys to Yorkshire would upset Yorkshiremen, mass immigration of City boys to Brighton would upset Brightonians etc etc... human nature
You mentioned race, so I pointed out that it wasn't an issue. It is the other three parties that have an issue with immigration from Africa and Asia, otherwise they wouldn't require people from those continent to jump through hoops while allowing Europeans in as they please
So, mass immigration from outside Europe isn't a problem?
Mass immigration from anywhere is a problem. The difference is that the Government can, if it chooses, do something about immigration from outside of the. It can do nothing about immigration from inside the EU.
Why do you have to make everything descend into bitching and name calling instead of debating? We disagree, fine.
I am not a UKIP politician and so cant tell you what their definition would be. I try to offer an explanation and you have to get sarcy, because you disagree with the policy.
My own idea would be that if an industry was desperately short of skilled people, then immigrants with the relevant skills would find it easier to pass any VISA requirements than those with skills that the UK already has a plentiful supply of.
I wouldn't have thought UKIPs plan would be much different, but who knows?
Do you honestly expect me to go through a list of what makes the cut and what doesn't, when its not me that makes the policy or has any contribution to it?!
I haven't called you any names (on this thread, or elsewhere afaicr). I said you didn't have a clue, because it's obvious you don't on this policy. You've just got assumptions.
And why is it bitching to ask questions of someone who vocally supports a certain policy? If you don't know your own party's policy that well; fair enough. But perhaps it won't be quite as you expect ...
General election betting. If I wanted to bet on UKIP doing well in 2015, are there markets other than vote share to bet on? (Labrokes have a UKIP vote share offer.)
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Racist stereotype of Romanians noted
Good point, and fair enough. Apologies to anyone I may have offended.
I'll get one of my Romanian friends to scold me before we share a bottle of Țuică.
Why do you have to make everything descend into bitching and name calling instead of debating? We disagree, fine.
I am not a UKIP politician and so cant tell you what their definition would be. I try to offer an explanation and you have to get sarcy, because you disagree with the policy.
My own idea would be that if an industry was desperately short of skilled people, then immigrants with the relevant skills would find it easier to pass any VISA requirements than those with skills that the UK already has a plentiful supply of.
I wouldn't have thought UKIPs plan would be much different, but who knows?
Do you honestly expect me to go through a list of what makes the cut and what doesn't, when its not me that makes the policy or has any contribution to it?!
I haven't called you any names (on this thread, or elsewhere afaicr). I said you didn't have a clue, because it's obvious you don't on this policy. You've just got assumptions.
And why is it bitching to ask questions of someone who vocally supports a certain policy? If you don't know your own party's policy that well; fair enough. But perhaps it won't be quite as you expect ...
Why haven't I got a clue? Show where I have been inconsistent with something UKIP have said on this matter
You think the UKP MEPs will vote? Is there no end to your delusions about the European Parliament?
Lol. But yes, they do, and on the basis of voting against the EU doing stuff. They've just voted against a ban on ivory sales, not (they say) because they favour ivory sales but because they don't want the EU deciding on it. I'm not sure what would happen if the EU proposed something they really, really liked - freedom to frack, say - but which would affect all EU countries. I'd ask their representative in tomorrow's Nottingham EU debate, but apparently they've not found anyone to take part. (Nor have the Tories.)
Hello - as one of the few lady PBers may I say two things:-
- first, I wouldn't be seen dead in a haircut costing £12 or less. Are you all mad? Just as you can never have too many shoes or handbags, it is worth spending money on a good haircut.
- I don't post during the day because I have a very demanding job.
Today, I was having a day off. Populus rang me up and asked me a lot of questions about certainty to vote etc etc and which parties I definitely wouldn't vote for.
BTW the bank opening difficulties some have mentioned come as a result of the various European Money Laundering Directives which require such nonsense. One of the many benefits (or not) of the EU. Banks have to collect so much information that they forget ever to read any of it. Lots of knowledge - but little understanding.
General election betting. If I wanted to bet on UKIP doing well in 2015, are there markets other than vote share to bet on? (Labrokes have a UKIP vote share offer.)
To outpoll the LibDems at 6/4 Farage to win a seat at 2/1
and have sent you an email on here with a special!
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
That's not a very good answer. Would you want the Irish situation to continue (yet restrict the rest of the EU?) Will you no longer allow Germans to come over to be secretaries? What about marriage laws and rights of residency or work? Will acting be on a 'skilled' list?
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
Racist stereotype of Romanians noted
Good point, and fair enough. Apologies to anyone I may have offended.
I'll get one of my Romanian friends to scold me before we share a bottle of Țuică.
Too late
Too late for what?
Apologies... but actually that's wrong, I think an apology is fair enough and it should be forgotten that you said it
1400 at Friends meeting house? I would be tempted if I were not working that AM, so unlikely to finish in time to get there: http://www.nottinghamquakers.org.uk/
I see it is being organised by Nottingham World development Movement in assosciation with Nottingham Friends of the earth. I know the Quakers do similar events in Leicester at Election time, but I have not seen them plan one for these elections.
It may not be a very fertile soil to recieve the seeds of Kipperism, but am sure that you will get a good reception.
You think the UKP MEPs will vote? Is there no end to your delusions about the European Parliament?
Lol. But yes, they do, and on the basis of voting against the EU doing stuff. They've just voted against a ban on ivory sales, not (they say) because they favour ivory sales but because they don't want the EU deciding on it. I'm not sure what would happen if the EU proposed something they really, really liked - freedom to frack, say - but which would affect all EU countries. I'd ask their representative in tomorrow's Nottingham EU debate, but apparently they've not found anyone to take part. (Nor have the Tories.)
"The industry I work in is despertely short of skilled people."
Why is that, Mr. J? What is your industry doing about it? Is importing people and giving them right to remain the only answer, or indeed the best one?
It's not so much my specialism as Mrs J's. The work is rather technical and whilst there are relatively few companies doing such work, the required skillset is rather high. For instance, I know a fair bit of the background of Mrs J's work, and there's no way in heck I could do it.
I work in a slightly different (although related) field, software. As I've said passim, one company of my acquaintance has recently opened an office in an Eastern European country and is working closely with the local uni, who is tailoring its course towards the company's needs. The idea being that the required skills would be up to date, and therefore the graduates better trained and equipped for the world of work. The company may then take the best of those graduates.
Apparently they tried to do a similar deal with a UK uni, but got turned down. Unis should be doing more of this, and tailoring courses towards industry needs and requirements.
The main reason we moved around the country so much (I think something like nine moves in 12 years or somesuch, both individually and together) is because we had to move where the work is. It's a relatively well-paid job and intellectually fascinating, but projects tend to end at the same time, releasing half a dozen people into the job market if there is no other project.
It's gluts and famines. It's not unknown for entire teams of five or six people to be hired on mass, even when there's no project for them to work on, just because they may be needed.
Sadly, those often don't end well as it gets rather boring having no work to do ...
There is clearly a sort of machismo in men boasting how little they pay for a haircut! For many of us we are simply glad to still require one every now and then...
I also invest in shoes that will last (Solovair) and manage without a handbag at all.
It leaves me more loot to spend on things that matter, such as the Bottle of single malt that I may have to send Hurst Llama.
Hello - as one of the few lady PBers may I say two things:-
- first, I wouldn't be seen dead in a haircut costing £12 or less. Are you all mad? Just as you can never have too many shoes or handbags, it is worth spending money on a good haircut.
- I don't post during the day because I have a very demanding job.
Today, I was having a day off. Populus rang me up and asked me a lot of questions about certainty to vote etc etc and which parties I definitely wouldn't vote for.
BTW the bank opening difficulties some have mentioned come as a result of the various European Money Laundering Directives which require such nonsense. One of the many benefits (or not) of the EU. Banks have to collect so much information that they forget ever to read any of it. Lots of knowledge - but little understanding.
NW: 15 (3 in metropolitan council areas, 2 Greater Manchester, 1 Merseyside) WM: 15 (5 in metropolitan council areas) E: 13 GL: 12 YH: 10 (8 in metropolitan council areas) SE: 9 SW: 9 EM: 8 Wales: 8 Scotland: 5 NE: 2
In the local elections this year we should get results for at least 28 of the 106 constituencies, since there are that many in London and the other metropolitan areas.
There are also 7 Labour targets which have the same boundaries as the local council area so a result will be available for these from the Euro elections: Worcester, Cannock Chase, Pendle, High Peak, Great Yarmouth, Crawley, Argyll & Bute.
What part of "Points system I would have thought" didn't you understand?
In my case it's the "I would have thought": you seem curiously incurious as to what the party you support believes and proposes. It takes me one google to learn that UKIP's position is
"• Regain control of our borders and of immigration - only possible by leaving the EU.
• Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.
• A points-based visa system and time-limited work permits.
• Proof of private health insurance must be a precondition for immigrants and tourists to enter the UK. "
It's of course no wonder that Kippers are Kippers. @isam doesn't need any help from me but if @SeanT follows through with his sneering piece for the DT then it won't be before time.
The sensible Kipper has strong opinions on certain issues, namely the EU and immigration, and that view has every right to an airing.
But the dismissal and double standards that are applied even here on our politically aware and sophisticated PB beggars belief.
And, again, @Sam needs no help from me but he is a Lab=>UKIP switcher. Hugely interesting from a political perspective and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't own a pair of mustard cords or a nine-iron (does such a thing exist?) but his views are excoriated and as most often with such things, IMO that reflects much more on those who are doing the excoriating than on their subject.
It plays into the elite, intelligentsia, exclusive view of politicians (and political geeks) that is seeing UKIP increasing support every day.
NW: 15 (3 in metropolitan council areas, 2 Greater Manchester, 1 Merseyside) WM: 15 (5 in metropolitan council areas) E: 13 GL: 12 YH: 10 (8 in metropolitan council areas) SE: 9 SW: 9 EM: 8 Wales: 8 Scotland: 5 NE: 2
In the local elections this year we should get results for at least 28 of the 106 constituencies, since there are that many in London and the other metropolitan areas.
There are also 7 Labour targets which have the same boundaries as the local council area so a result will be available for these from the Euro elections: Worcester, Cannock Chase, Pendle, High Peak, Great Yarmouth, Crawley, Argyll & Bute.
That breakdown is very interesting. It shows what nonsense the media/Blairite insistence that "Labour need to win in the south to have a chance!!!!!11" mentality is. 63 of these target seats are in northern England/the Midlands/Wales/Scotland -- if they took all of them, then they would already be within 5 seats of a majority without having taken a single extra seat in the south or in London.
But of course, the Westminster media refuse to concede that -- because they all come from the south, they refuse to accept any signs that the south is not the be-all and end-all.
@Ishmael_X sorry didn't get the chance to mention it the other day but my best wishes to you in your current fight. More power to your elbow and everything else, for that matter.
It's of course no wonder that Kippers are Kippers. @isam doesn't need any help from me but if @SeanT follows through with his sneering piece for the DT then it won't be before time.
The sensible Kipper has strong opinions on certain issues, namely the EU and immigration, and that view has every right to an airing.
But the dismissal and double standards that are applied even here on our politically aware and sophisticated PB beggars belief.
And, again, @Sam needs no help from me but he is a Lab=>UKIP switcher. Hugely interesting from a political perspective and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't own a pair of mustard cords or a nine-iron (does such a thing exist?) but his views are excoriated and as most often with such things, IMO that reflects much more on those who are doing the excoriating than on their subject.
It plays into the elite, intelligentsia, exclusive view of politicians (and political geeks) that is seeing UKIP increasing support every day.
+1
Without naming names, it's deeply depressing to see clearly intelligent posters engage in such passive agressive playground debating tactics to constantly deny any understanding of what UKIP might do, and/or to act as if this matters when they're on 10-15% in the polls.
What part of "Points system I would have thought" didn't you understand?
In my case it's the "I would have thought": you seem curiously incurious as to what the party you support believes and proposes. It takes me one google to learn that UKIP's position is
"• Regain control of our borders and of immigration - only possible by leaving the EU.
• Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.
• A points-based visa system and time-limited work permits.
• Proof of private health insurance must be a precondition for immigrants and tourists to enter the UK. "
Hmm, perhaps I'm under a misapprehension, but I thought the UKIP supporters on here talked more about basing immigration on desirable skills rather than levels of cash.
General election betting. If I wanted to bet on UKIP doing well in 2015, are there markets other than vote share to bet on? (Labrokes have a UKIP vote share offer.)
To outpoll the LibDems at 6/4 Farage to win a seat at 2/1
and have sent you an email on here with a special!
@Ishmael_X sorry didn't get the chance to mention it the other day but my best wishes to you in your current fight. More power to your elbow and everything else, for that matter.
Thank you! And thank you to everyone else who said so.
As any oncologist will tell you if you have to have stage 3 anything the colon is the place to have it. I am rather more likely than not to be around to see a tory maj returned for a second term in 2020, which can't be said of my friends with lung, ovarian and pancreatic cancers.
It's of course no wonder that Kippers are Kippers. @isam doesn't need any help from me but if @SeanT follows through with his sneering piece for the DT then it won't be before time.
The sensible Kipper has strong opinions on certain issues, namely the EU and immigration, and that view has every right to an airing.
But the dismissal and double standards that are applied even here on our politically aware and sophisticated PB beggars belief.
And, again, @Sam needs no help from me but he is a Lab=>UKIP switcher. Hugely interesting from a political perspective and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't own a pair of mustard cords or a nine-iron (does such a thing exist?) but his views are excoriated and as most often with such things, IMO that reflects much more on those who are doing the excoriating than on their subject.
It plays into the elite, intelligentsia, exclusive view of politicians (and political geeks) that is seeing UKIP increasing support every day.
@Ishmael_X sorry didn't get the chance to mention it the other day but my best wishes to you in your current fight. More power to your elbow and everything else, for that matter.
Thank you! And thank you to everyone else who said so.
As any oncologist will tell you if you have to have stage 3 anything the colon is the place to have it. I am rather more likely than not to be around to see a tory maj returned for a second term in 2020, which can't be said of my friends with lung, ovarian and pancreatic cancers.
I'm having dinner in 2 weeks time with a great friend who went into and has now come out (post-chemo) the other side of colon cancer. You are right it is very survivable.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
This is an absurd argument. UKIP are working with the system as it is currently constituted. You are suggesting that they should unilaterally operate under their proposed system. That makes about as much sense as saying that a socialist who wants higher tax rates should unilaretally pay more into the Treasury, or that a conservative who wants to cut spending should return a chunk of their state pension.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
This is an absurd argument. UKIP are working with the system as it is currently constituted. You are suggesting that they should unilaterally operate under their proposed system. That makes about as much sense as saying that a socialist who wants higher tax rates should unilaretally pay more into the Treasury, or that a conservative who wants to cut spending should return a chunk of their state pension.
I'd welcome socialists who want higher tax rates to pay more into the treasury, and for a conservative who wants spending cut to return a chunk of their state pension.
At least one Conservative politician is prepared to think and write about factors beyond the next election and to consider policy on the basis of a philosophy of ideas as well as learning from the past. Don't believe me? Well try this from Douglas Carswell:
Parts I through IV are a bit of a history lesson, worth reading, though because they set up where he is coming from. Part V is the meat and rather good, unless you happen to be David Cameron or George Osborne.
Will give that a read. Carswell is one of a small number of MP's that genuinely seem to put conviction before ambition
He surely has convictions, but sometimes they lead him over the cliff to reach ridiculous conclusions. The Eurozone and Sweden have demonstrated very well the sort of deflationary traps you can get into when you hit the zero bound and don't take other measures to address it. The economic Paulistas seem to plough on in their ideas regardless of the evidence coming in from the real world. The crisis that will bring verification to their beliefs is always two years away.
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
This is an absurd argument. UKIP are working with the system as it is currently constituted. You are suggesting that they should unilaterally operate under their proposed system. That makes about as much sense as saying that a socialist who wants higher tax rates should unilaretally pay more into the Treasury, or that a conservative who wants to cut spending should return a chunk of their state pension.
I'd welcome socialists who want higher tax rates to pay more into the treasury, and for a conservative who wants spending cut to return a chunk of their state pension.
And it's not an absurd argument.
You might welcome it if they did it, but it's certainly absurd to expect them to. It's not like the Irish actor or the Zimbabwean builder aren't going to be in the country if UKIP didn't employ them for one advert is it?
The Europhiles are just currently going for a number of cheap shots on trivial matters to do with UKIP because they're incapable of making a decent case on the big argument. Mainly because last time they tried the latter, with the Deputy PM in the debates, their arguments all fell apart.
3 of Labour's 9 targets in the SE are in Brighton & Hove. The other 6 are Milton Keynes South, Reading West, Crawley, Dover, Hastings&Rye, Chatham&Aylesford.
Some might say Milton Keynes is really in the Midlands rather than the SE. On the other hand, targets like Stevenage, Watford, Harlow, Basildon South are officially in the Eastern region despite probably having more in common with the SE.
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
This is an absurd argument. UKIP are working with the system as it is currently constituted. You are suggesting that they should unilaterally operate under their proposed system. That makes about as much sense as saying that a socialist who wants higher tax rates should unilaretally pay more into the Treasury, or that a conservative who wants to cut spending should return a chunk of their state pension.
I'd welcome socialists who want higher tax rates to pay more into the treasury, and for a conservative who wants spending cut to return a chunk of their state pension.
And it's not an absurd argument.
You might welcome it if they did it, but it's certainly absurd to expect them to. It's not like the Irish actor or the Zimbabwean builder aren't going to be in the country if UKIP didn't employ them for one advert is it?
The Europhiles are just currently going for a number of cheap shots on trivial matters to do with UKIP because they're incapable of making a decent case on the big argument. Mainly because last time they tried the latter, with the Deputy PM in the debates, their arguments all fell apart.
As usual, you seem to be mistaking me for a Europhile.
The problem with your line of argument is that it makes UKIP look just like all the other parties: do as we say, not as we do.
If they can't even manage to make a poster and a PPB without using labour that would probably be disallowed if they came into power, how can they expect people to run businesses under those rules?
And it is far from a trivial matter - if tackling mass immigration is done incorrectly, then the economy will be harmed. It may well be possible to tackle it in a good way, but I see nothing that shows UKIP have any idea about how to do it.
"If they can't even manage to make a poster and a PPB without using labour that would probably be disallowed if they came into power, how can they expect people to run businesses under those rules?"
Why would the Irish actor or the Zimbabwean with a British passport be disallowed if they came into power? Rather, doesn't it show that UKIP aren't as anti immigrant as people like to portray them?
There were Asians in the PEB too. I am surprised you're not trying to infer that they'd be disallowed as well, so little do you understand the issue
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
Good comeback from O'Flynn
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
Irishmen have always been able to come and work in the UK, EU or not I believe
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
Oddly enough, we seem able to make such distinctions, in relation to immigrants from outside the EU. UKIP's argument is that the same controls on immigration should apply to EU and non-EU nationals.
The Conservative counter-argument, on this site at least, is in favour of free migration to the UK. That's a legitimate position, but runs completely contrary to the position that the Conservatives were presenting to the voters in May 2010.
Will Irish jobbing actors be judged 'skilled' and able to immigrate and work in the UK under UKIP's brave new world?
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
This is an absurd argument. UKIP are working with the system as it is currently constituted. You are suggesting that they should unilaterally operate under their proposed system. That makes about as much sense as saying that a socialist who wants higher tax rates should unilaretally pay more into the Treasury, or that a conservative who wants to cut spending should return a chunk of their state pension.
I'd welcome socialists who want higher tax rates to pay more into the treasury, and for a conservative who wants spending cut to return a chunk of their state pension.
And it's not an absurd argument.
You might welcome it if they did it, but it's certainly absurd to expect them to. It's not like the Irish actor or the Zimbabwean builder aren't going to be in the country if UKIP didn't employ them for one advert is it?
The Europhiles are just currently going for a number of cheap shots on trivial matters to do with UKIP because they're incapable of making a decent case on the big argument. Mainly because last time they tried the latter, with the Deputy PM in the debates, their arguments all fell apart.
As usual, you seem to be mistaking me for a Europhile.
The problem with your line of argument is that it makes UKIP look just like all the other parties: do as we say, not as we do.
If they can't even manage to make a poster and a PPB without using labour that would probably be disallowed if they came into power, how can they expect people to run businesses under those rules?
And it is far from a trivial matter - if tackling mass immigration is done incorrectly, then the economy will be harmed. It may well be possible to tackle it in a good way, but I see nothing that shows UKIP have any idea about how to do it.
You're assuming that UKIP advocate that no immigrant should ever be allowed to set foot in the UK. What the party wants is an end to free migration from the rest of the EU.
Comments
http://politeia.co.uk/sites/default/files/files/After Osbrown - Mending Monetary Policy.pdf
Parts I through IV are a bit of a history lesson, worth reading, though because they set up where he is coming from. Part V is the meat and rather good, unless you happen to be David Cameron or George Osborne.
Oh, come off it, Mr. Navabi! Farage says he doesn't believe Cameron has any guiding principles other than furthering his own career. Big deal. Lots of people, including me, have been saying the same thing for years.
Cameron was the chap who made a fuss about cycling but forgot to mention his chauffeur was following along behind with his shoes and paperwork. Remember that little gem from the past. If Cameron wants to declare himself to be the Heir to Blair and behave like a third-rate PR spiv then one shouldn't be surprised if people take him on his own terms.
What has Farage flip flopped on? HS2 (at a push)?
He has made it his lifes work to get Britain out of the EU, and is making progress. What is Cameron's driving ambition? To make sure his mates are in cushy jobs?
Those nasty people at Commerzebank pointing out the bleeding obvious about the cuts Scotland would have to endure in the event of independence.
No, not the charming and pretty Lizzy Vaid.
A new one. The Guardian reveals all:
http://bit.ly/1fb59zT
What would a Labour MEP do differently for me to what a BNP or LibDem MEP would do?
I have left UKIP out because I know what a UKIP MEP would do: expense fraud and jail time. But in terms if things that matter, is there anything?
*reaches for tin foil hat*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27154700
On Wednesday, UKIP leader Nigel Farage suggested his party did not use actors in its campaign literature.
But on Friday, UKIP said the use of actors was "totally standard practice".
"I would suggest that the only substantive difference between our poster campaign and Mr Hague's is that ours is proving popular and successful while his was followed by a landslide defeat."
I believe the standard cry of the right on such occasions is "you couldn't make it up".
Obviously I twit UKIPpers, Nats and other buffoons on line, but that's online and I'm not trying to become or remain PM.
If Cameron's judgment is so poor that he sneers at UKIP, who then come out with comments about him in return that will resonate and may cost him votes, he can have no complaint and has nobody but himself to blame.
Fair point, and sound advice.
However, I'd point out that the 'fruitcakes' line was pretty true at the time. That was back in the old days when their manifestos were 'drivel'.
If you say you are going to allow 'skilled' immigration but not mass immigration, then you need to define what 'skilled' means. It seems - from Zimbabwean decorators to Irish actors through German secretaries - the definition of 'skilled' is currently rather wide.
The German secretary came to work in the City then married an Englishman
I think the Zimbabwean was born British
NEXT!
I have already said a number of times that I am nervous. Just for you I will say it again: I am nervous.
A few nerves, though, are generally good. Complacency isn't - yet given the ridiculous responses from many Tories on here to one poll (which is out of line with many others, and which is subject up
up weighing of the Tory score) that is exactly the problem with them.
It is often said that the Tories have but two states of mind: complacency and panic. Never a truer word.
http://www.zimeye.org/exactly-why-uk-deported-zimbabwean-grandmother-evenia-mawongera/
There's obviously some difference between the one and the other that I can't see. It's probably something obvious, but I'm not getting it somehow.
Are UKIP's anti-immigration policies are going to be rather wide? In fact, so wide you can run a horse and cart (driven by a Romanian) through?
OGH doesn't do positive threads on the Tories.
I believe the policy will be designed to enable the government to pick and choose who they let in based on merit, rather than just letting anyone in regardless.
@harryph
Looks like more @TheGreenParty than @UKIP candidates in the council elections in London. Also lots of wards @LibDems not contesting."
twitter.com/harryph/status/459739336578445312
The YouGov local-London poll was: Green 3%, LD 12%, UKIP 9%
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/n4ojuqo0a6/YG-Archive-140411-Eveningstandard-London.pdf
By the way if one looks at http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html there is a sliver where not only does Labour get most seats if they score equal to the Conservatives but they also obtain a majority.
It is a far more likely scenario (A true 66-1 maybe?) shot than the 1000-1+ shot of Lab Most votes, Con most seats.
http://www.euractiv.com/sections/uk-europe/new-uk-epp-party-vows-be-alternative-tories-ukip-301715
Scottish independence: CBI reverses referendum stance
Business lobby group the CBI has reversed its position as a registered campaigner against Scottish independence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618
(a) if he was here already it would be fine
(b) if he arrived with a job and passed the VISA requirements, that would be fine a la a British guy going to work in Australia for instance
I know our opponents try to make everything sound extreme, but all UKIP want is to be able to choose who comes to live in the UK. Immigration wouldn't end
This matters. The industry I work in is despertely short of skilled people. Any change that would make it harder for us to recruit and get trained staff would not be good.
So when you say things like: "Skilled immigration, not mass immigration", we need to know what it means.
Sadly, it doesn't look as if you have a clue.
I'll get one of my Romanian friends to scold me before we share a bottle of Țuică.
I am not a UKIP politician and so cant tell you what their definition would be. I try to offer an explanation and you have to get sarcy, because you disagree with the policy.
My own idea would be that if an industry was desperately short of skilled people, then immigrants with the relevant skills would find it easier to pass any VISA requirements than those with skills that the UK already has a plentiful supply of.
I wouldn't have thought UKIPs plan would be much different, but who knows?
Do you honestly expect me to go through a list of what makes the cut and what doesn't, when its not me that makes the policy or has any contribution to it?!
UKIP don't ever mention race as an issue. They want to stop mass immigration from a continent that is by and large the same race as the majority of British people.
Mass immigration is a problem wherever it comes from... Mass immigration of Essex boys to Yorkshire would upset Yorkshiremen, mass immigration of City boys to Brighton would upset Brightonians etc etc... human nature
You mentioned race, so I pointed out that it wasn't an issue. It is the other three parties that have an issue with immigration from Africa and Asia, otherwise they wouldn't require people from those continent to jump through hoops while allowing Europeans in as they please
And why is it bitching to ask questions of someone who vocally supports a certain policy? If you don't know your own party's policy that well; fair enough. But perhaps it won't be quite as you expect ...
If I wanted to bet on UKIP doing well in 2015, are there markets other than vote share to bet on? (Labrokes have a UKIP vote share offer.)
"The industry I work in is despertely short of skilled people."
Why is that, Mr. J? What is your industry doing about it? Is importing people and giving them right to remain the only answer, or indeed the best one?
I'd ask their representative in tomorrow's Nottingham EU debate, but apparently they've not found anyone to take part. (Nor have the Tories.)
- first, I wouldn't be seen dead in a haircut costing £12 or less. Are you all mad? Just as you can never have too many shoes or handbags, it is worth spending money on a good haircut.
- I don't post during the day because I have a very demanding job.
Today, I was having a day off. Populus rang me up and asked me a lot of questions about certainty to vote etc etc and which parties I definitely wouldn't vote for.
BTW the bank opening difficulties some have mentioned come as a result of the various European Money Laundering Directives which require such nonsense. One of the many benefits (or not) of the EU. Banks have to collect so much information that they forget ever to read any of it. Lots of knowledge - but little understanding.
Farage to win a seat at 2/1
and have sent you an email on here with a special!
'Are you trolling? What's the point?'
Sorry, I didn't realise that it was such a touchy subject.
I'm simply trying to find out exactly what UKIP's immigration policy is, and how it would work in practice. Nothing more. But no one seems to know.
Or is Ed now the phoney?
What part of "Points system I would have thought" didn't you understand?
I see it is being organised by Nottingham World development Movement in assosciation with Nottingham Friends of the earth. I know the Quakers do similar events in Leicester at Election time, but I have not seen them plan one for these elections.
It may not be a very fertile soil to recieve the seeds of Kipperism, but am sure that you will get a good reception.
I work in a slightly different (although related) field, software. As I've said passim, one company of my acquaintance has recently opened an office in an Eastern European country and is working closely with the local uni, who is tailoring its course towards the company's needs. The idea being that the required skills would be up to date, and therefore the graduates better trained and equipped for the world of work. The company may then take the best of those graduates.
Apparently they tried to do a similar deal with a UK uni, but got turned down. Unis should be doing more of this, and tailoring courses towards industry needs and requirements.
The main reason we moved around the country so much (I think something like nine moves in 12 years or somesuch, both individually and together) is because we had to move where the work is. It's a relatively well-paid job and intellectually fascinating, but projects tend to end at the same time, releasing half a dozen people into the job market if there is no other project.
It's gluts and famines. It's not unknown for entire teams of five or six people to be hired on mass, even when there's no project for them to work on, just because they may be needed.
Sadly, those often don't end well as it gets rather boring having no work to do ...
I also invest in shoes that will last (Solovair) and manage without a handbag at all.
It leaves me more loot to spend on things that matter, such as the Bottle of single malt that I may have to send Hurst Llama.
NW: 15 (3 in metropolitan council areas, 2 Greater Manchester, 1 Merseyside)
WM: 15 (5 in metropolitan council areas)
E: 13
GL: 12
YH: 10 (8 in metropolitan council areas)
SE: 9
SW: 9
EM: 8
Wales: 8
Scotland: 5
NE: 2
In the local elections this year we should get results for at least 28 of the 106 constituencies, since there are that many in London and the other metropolitan areas.
There are also 7 Labour targets which have the same boundaries as the local council area so a result will be available for these from the Euro elections: Worcester, Cannock Chase, Pendle, High Peak, Great Yarmouth, Crawley, Argyll & Bute.
"• Regain control of our borders and of immigration - only possible by leaving the EU.
• Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.
• A points-based visa system and time-limited work permits.
• Proof of private health insurance must be a precondition for immigrants and tourists to enter the UK. "
http://www.ukip.org/issues
The sensible Kipper has strong opinions on certain issues, namely the EU and immigration, and that view has every right to an airing.
But the dismissal and double standards that are applied even here on our politically aware and sophisticated PB beggars belief.
And, again, @Sam needs no help from me but he is a Lab=>UKIP switcher. Hugely interesting from a political perspective and, as far as I'm aware, doesn't own a pair of mustard cords or a nine-iron (does such a thing exist?) but his views are excoriated and as most often with such things, IMO that reflects much more on those who are doing the excoriating than on their subject.
It plays into the elite, intelligentsia, exclusive view of politicians (and political geeks) that is seeing UKIP increasing support every day.
But of course, the Westminster media refuse to concede that -- because they all come from the south, they refuse to accept any signs that the south is not the be-all and end-all.
Makes you wonder why people ask me rather than googling it really doesn't it?
+1
Without naming names, it's deeply depressing to see clearly intelligent posters engage in such passive agressive playground debating tactics to constantly deny any understanding of what UKIP might do, and/or to act as if this matters when they're on 10-15% in the polls.
Separatists reportedly take OSCE monitors 'hostage' in Sloviansk.
8 person team, some of then German.
Should ratchet tensions nicely if they are not let go of fairly quick.
Expect their seizure to be linked to spying allegations amongst members of the team, either the team themselves or their Ukrainian support staff.
On a side note, quite a picture telling much about the mighty Russian Naval power.
http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/portsmouth-warship-sent-to-shadow-russian-navy-destroyer-near-british-waters-1-6017646
http://www.workpermit.com/australia/point_calculator.htm
Edit: Reportedly the seized officials are not OSCE declared monitors but monitors sent under Vienna Document provisions.
As any oncologist will tell you if you have to have stage 3 anything the colon is the place to have it. I am rather more likely than not to be around to see a tory maj returned for a second term in 2020, which can't be said of my friends with lung, ovarian and pancreatic cancers.
How about the snipers in Kiev?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDPJ-ucnyPU
Second term 2020....dare to dream....
And it's not an absurd argument.
The Europhiles are just currently going for a number of cheap shots on trivial matters to do with UKIP because they're incapable of making a decent case on the big argument. Mainly because last time they tried the latter, with the Deputy PM in the debates, their arguments all fell apart.
Some might say Milton Keynes is really in the Midlands rather than the SE. On the other hand, targets like Stevenage, Watford, Harlow, Basildon South are officially in the Eastern region despite probably having more in common with the SE.
The problem with your line of argument is that it makes UKIP look just like all the other parties: do as we say, not as we do.
If they can't even manage to make a poster and a PPB without using labour that would probably be disallowed if they came into power, how can they expect people to run businesses under those rules?
And it is far from a trivial matter - if tackling mass immigration is done incorrectly, then the economy will be harmed. It may well be possible to tackle it in a good way, but I see nothing that shows UKIP have any idea about how to do it.
"If they can't even manage to make a poster and a PPB without using labour that would probably be disallowed if they came into power, how can they expect people to run businesses under those rules?"
Why would the Irish actor or the Zimbabwean with a British passport be disallowed if they came into power? Rather, doesn't it show that UKIP aren't as anti immigrant as people like to portray them?
There were Asians in the PEB too. I am surprised you're not trying to infer that they'd be disallowed as well, so little do you understand the issue
The Conservative counter-argument, on this site at least, is in favour of free migration to the UK. That's a legitimate position, but runs completely contrary to the position that the Conservatives were presenting to the voters in May 2010.