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Starmer calls peak Reform but says I fight on, I fight to win – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,202
edited 9:34AM in General
Starmer calls peak Reform but says I fight on, I fight to win – politicalbetting.com

? WATCH: Keir Starmer says "the tide is turning" on Reform UK "They can't now win by-elections. They've reached probably the peak of their support – it's going down" pic.twitter.com/tXrw5GpNCr

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Comments

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,773
    First.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,881
    Don't rule Keir out yet!

    But don't forget I'm not always right! 😊
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,632
    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,249
    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,914
    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    Ladbrokes had one the other day but they've pulled it for the time being.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,539
    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,394
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    There were a lot of very similar, and apposite, comments made during Boris' rise to supremacy, and people noted them but kept supporting him because it was "priced in". I think Burnham being a bit of a walking ego trip is similarly priced in.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,401
    edited 9:51AM

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    The £100k gets too much emphasis given how few people earn that . Student loans and Stamp Duty are the big ones. The fetishisation of buy-to-let too, and the resultant squeeze on first time buyers.

    You could stretch to vibes around renewables too - my generation has lived through Ukraine and Iran, and will bear the cost of climate change.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,632

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    Ladbrokes had one the other day but they've pulled it for the time being.
    Thanks. Understandable, given there are people right now who know things the bookies don't. Thought I'd seen one. I'll keep an eye.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,249
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,249

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    It's apposite that Starmer's complete lack of political nous is manifesting itself to the very end.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,108
    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    Gary Neville?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    Gary Neville?
    He has said he is not interested but then
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
    Different country - Scotland is part of our country as is Wales and NI
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,394

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    It's apposite that Starmer's complete lack of political nous is manifesting itself to the very end.
    Two appearances of "apposite" in 5 posts from different posters. Statistically noteworthy!
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,398

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    On the other hand, at the end of the Brown Government of which Burnham was a member, Liam Byrne wrote the famous lines "I'm afraid there is no money". Presume AB has seen the splurges of cash by intervening governments and the current level of debt, so I wonder where he is going to get money for any policies he thinks he can enact.

    He'll have to use all his charm to keep the PLP in line while dealing with the overhanging debt we've all inherited (apart from Sandpit and LostPassword who are no longer with us)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,854
    Dopermean said:

    Foss said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Regarding North Sea oil...
    The fiscal argument is being overstated on both sides.

    Yes, the £25bn figure is doing a lot of heroic work. Even OEUK’s own case is cumulative, conditional, and heavily dependent on tax reform and investment actually happening. It is not a magic annual cheque for defence, pensions, potholes etc.

    But treating this purely as a Treasury line item misses the Aberdeen point. Even if the Exchequer effect is modest, delayed, or even net negative after tax changes, the local economic effect can still be positive. Jobs, supply chains, engineering skills, harbour activity, household confidence and keeping transition capacity in the north east all matter.

    f we are still consuming oil and gas during the transition, there is a strong case for managing domestic production where commercially viable, while using the time and revenue to build the replacement economy in places like Aberdeen rather than leaving them to discover “just transition” means a leaflet and a Job Centre.

    Geology wins eventually. But policy decides whether Aberdeen gets a managed landing or another British industrial faceplant.

    Aberdeen is heading for a faceplant either way, alas, because the national ability to develop new industries is very close to zero, and all the attention is on legacy industry rather than developing new industries.

    We have massive amounts of debate around the oil and gas industry, but there's nothing being said and done about developing a British presence in battery manufacture, or rare earths, or building on some of the promising satellite startups.
    At best, many members of our ruling classes genuinely believe engineering and tech is gauche and of less importance than the touchy-feely stuff. At worst, they think it's a threat to the status-quo they benefit from and thus the enemy.
    The aggressive tone in the documents that came out of the BritVolt saga, towards technical knowledge, is instructive.
    Though wasn't Britvolt subsidy farming rather than a serious manufacturing proposition?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britishvolt
    The problem was that they saw subsidy farming and real estate deals as “proper business”.

    The hatred for technologies and “techies” in some of the documents is quite impressive.

    They saw making batteries as an accidental endpoint of their scheme. With expertise to be bought in as required. And got rid of as quickly as possible.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,372
    Its a fascinating case study in how popular perception matters. It's not unusual for govts to be unpopular midterm, Starmer has certainly made mistakes but its not like he's done anything really disastrous.

    We've not invaded Iraq or caused a bond market crisis or introduced a poll tax.

    But he is undeniably very unpopular and the perception has set in that Labour will make a change.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,372
    How does Aaron explain Aberdeen South?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,196
    edited 10:09AM
    On climate, the previous thread (Jokingly) reckons a Venus scenario is possible.

    Taking global reserves of 1.77 Tn barrels of oil, 200 Tn cubic metres of gas, 1 Tn tonnes of coal if you burnt all of it it would yield 3.7 Tn tonnes of CO2 (Oil 0.8, Gas 0.4, Coal 2.5).

    @ 44% absorption corresponds to ~ 260 ppm additional CO2 (3364 Bn tonnes in atmosphere = 430 ppm) which gets us to about 690 ppm by 2126. So a way away from the 998000 ppm of Venus ;)

    Historically 690 ppm is fine for the earth tbh, & everyone is using solar at that point.

    The problem is solved because we've run out of fossil fuels.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173
    edited 10:08AM

    On previous thread Petercairns sais:

    "It;'s also worth noting that the International annual rate of jobs decline in mature oil fields is set at somehwere between 2-4% so from 1980 to 2030 the natural decline would be from about 130k to around 50k on a 2% decline. or roughly where we will are now regardless of Government policy."

    Sorry but I do laugh when people make such ill informed comments.

    What the hell has the decline in jobs in mature oil fields got to do with anything. Of course they decline. But then you find NEW oil and gas fields to replace them. There is still an estimated recoverable 15 billion BOE equivalent in the UK sector - set against total UK production since the start of the North Sea of 37 billion BOE equivalent. So there are decades of oil and gas still to be developed. Oh and every prediction ever made for the North Sea since it started has underestimated the reserves.

    Those job declines are by no means inevitable except due to political decisions

    It's only recoverable if it's economic do do so and that means the new fields have to be developed in large enough numbers and be big enough to maintain upgrade and expand the existing aging North Sea infrastructure and all indications are taht on a field by field basis they are not.

    Things like Rosebank and West of Shetland go straight to tanker so they mostly don't contribute to the network costs, certainly for oil.

    It matters not a jot how much oil is down there, if the long term cost of developing it, extracting it and getting it ashore doesn't make sense. The smaller the new field and the futher out it is, the more it costs to get it ashore.

    Much like Scargills deep mined coal, it matters not how much there is, if someone elses is cheaper.

    Most new fields in the North Sea are small and only viable if they tie into the existing pipeline network and that isn't going to change.

    Peter.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,201
    FPT...

    Stop the presses! We've talked before about the idea that the standing rule that social media aren't publishers should be abolished if they're using algorithms to promote specific material. Well, there's a bombshell* ruling by the EU Court of Justice that has just landed that makes that argument! See https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-41864400.html

    * Possibly not a bombshell. It is, of course, more complicated than that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,914
    Andy_JS said:

    How does Aaron explain Aberdeen South?

    Oil & Gas.

    Not many constituencies in England & Wales are quite so directly impacted.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,249

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
    Different country - Scotland is part of our country as is Wales and NI
    Yes I did pause for thought when writing that, but I felt that to write "the North East of just one region of this country" would have been inviting a lot more reaction still, all distracting from the point I was making.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,521

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
    Current circumstances give the Tories a little opening though, and they need all the ones they can get. There is an old fashioned look to all the by election results overnight. This helps the Tories, who can make progress if Labour v Reform is not seen as the main bout.

    Especially, Reform are currently down if not out. They keep losing the high profile stuff. As every skoolboy nose you never kick a man unless he is down. Tories need to attack strongly and make it clear they don't deal with them or any aspect of the far right.

    Labour are both about to introspect but in such a way as to secure the longer term. Labour v Tory would be the Tories preferred framing of the next election. In fact it would be brilliant. Next best would be Not Reform v Reform.

    Perhaps Kemi should say that they will happily have Kruger back when he recovers from his blip, but not Jenrick. That would make an unmissable point.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,047
    Battlebus said:

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    On the other hand, at the end of the Brown Government of which Burnham was a member, Liam Byrne wrote the famous lines "I'm afraid there is no money". Presume AB has seen the splurges of cash by intervening governments and the current level of debt, so I wonder where he is going to get money for any policies he thinks he can enact.

    He'll have to use all his charm to keep the PLP in line while dealing with the overhanging debt we've all inherited (apart from Sandpit and LostPassword who are no longer with us)
    About that...

    https://bsky.app/profile/thomaswpenny.bsky.social/post/3moi6ycbozk2e

    As part of the spending review / budget process, individual departments would go in to see the Chief Secretary to make the case for their spending.
    He would be given papers for each department with the savings he was expected to achieve.

    There would be a series of calculations over several pages. The ideal, various compromises, then, on the last page, the most he could possibly give them.
    Each department would come in and Andy Burnham would turn to the back page and offer them that.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
    Different country - Scotland is part of our country as is Wales and NI
    Yes I did pause for thought when writing that, but I felt that to write "the North East of just one region of this country" would have been inviting a lot more reaction still, all distracting from the point I was making.
    Well technically I would say the UK is a State and Scotland, England and Wales are Countries, I think NI is a province?

    Peter.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,499

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    I suspect he is bewildered by it all.

    Know a few people in this mould. Always worked hard. Top marks at School and Uni. Mostly worked in the public sector or adjacent. Can't understand why they get passed over/lose their jobs when they haven't done anything wrong, according to their conception of morality and success (i.e. working had)....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346
    I cannot think anything other than labour mps must be in utter turmoil

    Starmer wanting to fight on is the worst case for Labour, and his cabinet needs to tell him early next week it is time to go, if not before

    The weekend is going to be brutal for Starmer
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,372
    One the one hand I predicted the correct winner in each by-election, but on the other hand I said it would be very close in both Aberdeen and Makerfield which it wasn't.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,697
    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    I'm still wondering why the school thought it necessary to collect a quiche?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,075

    On previous thread Petercairns sais:

    "It;'s also worth noting that the International annual rate of jobs decline in mature oil fields is set at somehwere between 2-4% so from 1980 to 2030 the natural decline would be from about 130k to around 50k on a 2% decline. or roughly where we will are now regardless of Government policy."

    Sorry but I do laugh when people make such ill informed comments.

    What the hell has the decline in jobs in mature oil fields got to do with anything. Of course they decline. But then you find NEW oil and gas fields to replace them. There is still an estimated recoverable 15 billion BOE equivalent in the UK sector - set against total UK production since the start of the North Sea of 37 billion BOE equivalent. So there are decades of oil and gas still to be developed. Oh and every prediction ever made for the North Sea since it started has underestimated the reserves.

    Those job declines are by no means inevitable except due to political decisions

    His comment about basin collapse was interesting, but he failed to observe that it's more likely to happen if new drilling and extraction is discouraged.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173
    edited 10:15AM

    Andy_JS said:

    How does Aaron explain Aberdeen South?

    Oil & Gas.

    Not many constituencies in England & Wales are quite so directly impacted.
    Coalescence!

    The SNP sits on around 3 in 7 votes,

    If the other Parties split the vote the biggest of them gets 2!...
    3 beats 2.

    If the other Parties unite around the party on 2 it gets 4!...
    4 beats 3!

    One election the Unionist vote is divided!

    The SNP get 50+ MP's Labour a half dozen

    Next People wanting rid of the Tories so switch to Labour;

    Labour get 50 Mp's the SNP again a half dozen.

    Peter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,697

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,854
    Mortimer said:

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    I suspect he is bewildered by it all.

    Know a few people in this mould. Always worked hard. Top marks at School and Uni. Mostly worked in the public sector or adjacent. Can't understand why they get passed over/lose their jobs when they haven't done anything wrong, according to their conception of morality and success (i.e. working had)....
    “But I followed the Process. Yes, plane crashed and everyone died. But my documentation was impeccable.”
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,120
    edited 10:17AM
    Pulpstar said:

    On climate, the previous thread (Jokingly) reckons a Venus scenario is possible.

    Taking global reserves of 1.77 Tn barrels of oil, 200 Tn cubic metres of gas, 1 Tn tonnes of coal if you burnt all of it it would yield 3.7 Tn tonnes of CO2 (Oil 0.8, Gas 0.4, Coal 2.5).

    @ 44% absorption corresponds to ~ 260 ppm additional CO2 (3364 Bn tonnes in atmosphere = 430 ppm) which gets us to about 690 ppm by 2126. So a way away from the 998000 ppm of Venus ;)

    Historically 690 ppm is fine for the earth tbh, & everyone is using solar at that point.

    The problem is solved because we've run out of fossil fuels.

    Except we keep finding more reserves. I am sure I was told in the 70s we'd have run out by 2020.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,099
    edited 10:20AM
    Mortimer said:

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    I suspect he is bewildered by it all.

    Know a few people in this mould. Always worked hard. Top marks at School and Uni. Mostly worked in the public sector or adjacent. Can't understand why they get passed over/lose their jobs when they haven't done anything wrong, according to their conception of morality and success (i.e. working had)....
    Same applied to Rishi in summer 2022 and 2024. Rishi was cleverer and more successful career wise than Truss and arguably Boris and the same applies to Starmer relative to Burnham and Farage but charisma and campaigning skills are a different skillset to being a swot and administrator
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,108
    rkrkrk said:

    Its a fascinating case study in how popular perception matters. It's not unusual for govts to be unpopular midterm, Starmer has certainly made mistakes but its not like he's done anything really disastrous.

    We've not invaded Iraq or caused a bond market crisis or introduced a poll tax.

    But he is undeniably very unpopular and the perception has set in that Labour will make a change.

    He started with 33% of the country voting Labour of which I'd guess a third or so of them only voted Labour to get the Tories out. So he had less than 1 in 4 of the country supporting him to start with.

    The public have expensive tastes that we can't afford and certainly don't expect to pay for.
    The press are uniformly against him, some to ridiculous levels.
    He is, as his government, the worst communicator to ever be in charge of the country.

    I'm more surprised he retains as much support as he does rather than the other way around, and I still think he may be better than all the plausible alternatives.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,075
    This from the header is questionable.
    ..On the plus side the near collapse of the Greens and Lib Dems in Makerfield does give confidence that centre-left voters will vote tactically en masse to stop Reform...

    The choice in the by-election was extremely clear on a number of levels - not least that a vote for Burnham was a vote to get rid of Starmer.
    Choices in a general election are far less clear for any given constituency, and also the anti-incumbent effect would be working against a PM Burnham rather than in his favour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,075
    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173
    Nigelb said:

    On previous thread Petercairns sais:

    "It;'s also worth noting that the International annual rate of jobs decline in mature oil fields is set at somehwere between 2-4% so from 1980 to 2030 the natural decline would be from about 130k to around 50k on a 2% decline. or roughly where we will are now regardless of Government policy."

    Sorry but I do laugh when people make such ill informed comments.

    What the hell has the decline in jobs in mature oil fields got to do with anything. Of course they decline. But then you find NEW oil and gas fields to replace them. There is still an estimated recoverable 15 billion BOE equivalent in the UK sector - set against total UK production since the start of the North Sea of 37 billion BOE equivalent. So there are decades of oil and gas still to be developed. Oh and every prediction ever made for the North Sea since it started has underestimated the reserves.

    Those job declines are by no means inevitable except due to political decisions

    His comment about basin collapse was interesting, but he failed to observe that it's more likely to happen if new drilling and extraction is discouraged.
    No it is going to happen at some point because regardless of new drilling there will be eventual decline and what we need to do is accept that and prepare as best we can before it happens. New development will delay it but it is going to happen.

    It's a bit like sending reinforcements to a position you can't hold.

    You can delay it but you risk losing more men when it falls.

    Best to send only enough to hold long enough to prepare a btetter line of defnce and then get as many out first before it falls.

    I don't have a problem with some new marginal developments if they make sense, but ignoring the long term outcome becuase you don't want to face it, is burying your head in the sand.

    Peter.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,697
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 596
    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,340
    Pulpstar said:

    On climate, the previous thread (Jokingly) reckons a Venus scenario is possible.

    Taking global reserves of 1.77 Tn barrels of oil, 200 Tn cubic metres of gas, 1 Tn tonnes of coal if you burnt all of it it would yield 3.7 Tn tonnes of CO2 (Oil 0.8, Gas 0.4, Coal 2.5).

    @ 44% absorption corresponds to ~ 260 ppm additional CO2 (3364 Bn tonnes in atmosphere = 430 ppm) which gets us to about 690 ppm by 2126. So a way away from the 998000 ppm of Venus ;)

    Historically 690 ppm is fine for the earth tbh, & everyone is using solar at that point.

    The problem is solved because we've run out of fossil fuels.

    It might fine for the Earth, but at 690 ppm it'll be warm enough to melt virtually all the ice at the poles, raising the sea level by around 60 m. So not so great for coastal settlements and low-lying plains like the ones where we grow most of our food. We'll just have to manage our population down and make Birmingham our new capital city.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,705
    Reflecting Pool latest.

    The flag wagging blue "beautiful for 120 years" pool went green within a week, so they added hydrogen peroxide to make it blue again.

    (Imagine the Red Dwarf them tune as background.)

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,521
    Nigelb said:

    This from the header is questionable.
    ..On the plus side the near collapse of the Greens and Lib Dems in Makerfield does give confidence that centre-left voters will vote tactically en masse to stop Reform...

    The choice in the by-election was extremely clear on a number of levels - not least that a vote for Burnham was a vote to get rid of Starmer.
    Choices in a general election are far less clear for any given constituency, and also the anti-incumbent effect would be working against a PM Burnham rather than in his favour.

    The question remains central, both politically and betting wise. I think it is inevitable, if Reform remain a thing, that the next GE will have a substantial tactical element because about 60% of voters really really don't want Reform to the extent that a Reform government, like Trumpism, puts in question 'losers' consent'.

    The issue will be how this is achieved, and to what extent successfully. Much depends on how the Tories can play out the slight strengthening of their position from Reform's by election fails; and how a new PM gets on.

    The succession of Reform by election fails matters a lot; much more than the local election triumphs.

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,400
    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Utter made up right wing nonsense.

    Her gender, race, colour is immaterial.

    She's useless

    Thats a political judgement nothing elss
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173
    edited 10:30AM
    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Who?

    I can't think of any and I don't speak for any, but I have seen criticism of the idea that the Aberdeen result is some new dawn for the Tories the way they have tried to spin it, but nothing aimed at Kemi's background or gender.

    By and large I think most criticisms on here focus on; " We don't think she is any good, and she's a Tory!"

    Peter.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,929
    Eabhal said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    I doubt SNP will lose a lot of sleep over Aberdeen South. Arbroath and Broughty Ferry is a more typical constituency for them and they won it easily.

    Indeed, there's a risk of taking the wrong lesson from a good result, as happened after Uxbridge.

    Everyone, including Starmer and Burnham, concluded that bring the drivers' friend was the way to go, ignoring the detail that Zone 6 is an unusual bit of London. Chasing that vote was one of the signs of Sunak going mad.

    Potentially, it's the same here, except eking out oil and gas for a bit longer. Obviously plays well in Aberdeen, not sure about nationwide.
    Nobody will bring Aberdeen's glory days back. Geology prevents it even if saving the planet isn't your thing. But it's an emotional thing. People who made a good living out of the oil boom no longer do. Kemi Badenoch is playing the unlikely role of Arthur Scargill in his opposition to an unfeeling Margaret Thatcher towards the miners.
    There is 25 billion of tax income from Kemi's policy which we are not receiving due to dogma, whilst at the same time Norway extracts the oil and gas and tax from it's fields around ours

    It is not either or but both, maximise tax from extracting oil and gas and continue the transition to net zero

    North sea oil and gas exploration will be very much on Burnham's agenda and significantly Wes Streeting is on the same page as Kemi
    We’ve repeatedly debunked the £25 billion figure BigG.
    No you haven't

    We gain tax from more exploration which is not being paid at present at an estimate of 2.5 billion pa
    Yes I have and it’s very silly to repeatedly come to a forum like PB with it. OEUK, which is the O&G lobby, reckon it’s about £1.5 billion per annum assuming full liberalisation of licensing and large cuts to EPL.

    Their own model suggests a significant reduction in tax revenue while we wait for O&G activity to bump up a bit (in relative terms - it will still be declining in line with the overall trend). The implied future revenue is all indirect - payroll, supply chain etc. That subject to an awful lot of uncertainty.

    I’m not against this but it doesn’t help the cause suggesting that there is significant cash available here - a 0.14% increase in tax revenue over a decade, and that’s a very optimistic estimate.
    Any increase in tax revenue is significant.

    A billion here, a billion there, soon you're talking real money.
    Agree of course but I’m going to call out any crap fiscal analysis where I see, whether it’s claims about short term savings from removing the triple lock, the Greens double locking benefits, or mad tax numbers that even the lobbyists won’t stretch to.

    The £25 billion is even more egregious because people are accidentally deliberately confusing a cumulative number with an annual one. It’s also convenient that this magical tax revenue won’t materialise for many years to come.
    Sorry but its utter bullshit spin to denigrate any change.

    There is nobody whatsoever who claims that there are short term savings from removing the triple lock, literally everyone making the argument is pointing to the long-term implications of the triple lock ratchet. Especially the yo-yo effect of having eg inflation one year causing an increase, then catch-up wages the following year causing the same increase to occur a second time.

    Similarly literally any tax or spend change can be denigrated by referring it as a tiny percentage of overall tax and spend. That is true of everything when you do that, which is why you should never do that.

    The simple fact of the matter is this is likely to result in tax revenues and won't harm the environment (versus importing and burning oil) so is the right thing to do. Everything else is inconsequential.
    The matter probably isn't simple but this definitely isn't a fact, as @Eabhal is trying to point out with actual numbers. But never let reality get in the way of a simple fact.
    It is a fact.

    Eabhal is denigrating the actual numbers by changing them into percentages of GDP, but deflating a number by making it a percentage of GDP does not change the number. Its still billions of revenue.
    Incorrect, I converted into a percentage of tax revenue to demonstrate the relatively tiny size of the increase in revenue.

    For the umpteenth time, I don’t disagree with the broad policy idea but do take serious umbrage at how it is framed from a fiscal perspective.
    It is not "relatively" tiny though.

    That is the same with any tax change.

    You have repeatedly supported fuel duty increases. I could do the same to that to claim it is relatively tiny too.

    There is no reason to make any changes be deflated by making it a percentage of all taxes, no change is ever going to realistically be "significant" then. It is just not sound logic or economics to do what you are doing.

    Billions of pounds is significant, even if total taxes are hundreds of billions.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346
    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Utter made up right wing nonsense.

    Her gender, race, colour is immaterial.

    She's useless

    Thats a political judgement nothing elss
    These are difficult days for you
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,196
    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,650

    Mortimer said:

    Interesting that Starmer seems determined to stay on. Almost like he hopes the plotters will back off if they have to get their hands dirty.

    I suspect he is bewildered by it all.

    Know a few people in this mould. Always worked hard. Top marks at School and Uni. Mostly worked in the public sector or adjacent. Can't understand why they get passed over/lose their jobs when they haven't done anything wrong, according to their conception of morality and success (i.e. working had)....
    “But I followed the Process. Yes, plane crashed and everyone died. But my documentation was impeccable.”
    It is possible Starmer is just going through the motions here to keep the ball in the air over the weekend and come Monday the men in boiler suits will have a chat and he will announce a date for standing down.

    I suspect the argument now is how long can be negotiate so he has a swan song summer of international visits etc.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,705
    edited 10:34AM
    It seems it may have been Russia who won the "oil tank lid toss" world record, when one of their own Manpads blew it up. I'm not totally sure, but it's fun.

    (suchomimus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-L2FeRSVU
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,650
    Also won a £5 on Kemi in Aberdeenshire.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,120
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    er... members vote?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,099
    The only reason we are at peak Reform is as Burnham stopped their surge in Makerfield and squeezed LD and Green voters. Plus Reform lost votes to Restore
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,688
    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    The tories have come late to identity politics but now embrace it with the zeal of the convert.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,929

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    Wow, he's actually right for once.

    I've been banging the drum on this for years. As have others.

    The problem is we are so utterly inconsistent now in our tax rates, and heavily penalise those with the highest costs (eg young parents) with the highest tax rates, all to featherbed certain voters into not having to pay those taxes.

    Everyone on the same income should pay the same taxes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,914

    The King!! Go the King!!

    Just partial cashed out on Lab leader on BF and put over £300 in the kitty.

    I very pleasant start to a hot weekend.



    Nice, I laid Reform and Restore in Makerfield like there's no tomorrow.

    That and finding some bets on Andy B as next Lab leader means I am no longer going to the poorhouse if Andy B becomes next PM.

    Ed Miliband at 100/1 also helped.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,929
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    MPs have 5 days typically to make nominations from when nominations open though. It doesn't stop the count the second Starmer resigns, it starts a nomination window.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,929

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    er... members vote?
    Not if there's only 1 candidate above the threshold. Would not be the case though since you are never going to stop the clock with only 165 MPs nominating.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346
    HYUFD said:

    The only reason we are at peak Reform is as Burnham stopped their surge in Makerfield and squeezed LD and Green voters. Plus Reform lost votes to Restore

    All the votes for all the parties did not beat Burnham on his own
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,398

    Battlebus said:

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    On the other hand, at the end of the Brown Government of which Burnham was a member, Liam Byrne wrote the famous lines "I'm afraid there is no money". Presume AB has seen the splurges of cash by intervening governments and the current level of debt, so I wonder where he is going to get money for any policies he thinks he can enact.

    He'll have to use all his charm to keep the PLP in line while dealing with the overhanging debt we've all inherited (apart from Sandpit and LostPassword who are no longer with us)
    About that...

    https://bsky.app/profile/thomaswpenny.bsky.social/post/3moi6ycbozk2e

    As part of the spending review / budget process, individual departments would go in to see the Chief Secretary to make the case for their spending.
    He would be given papers for each department with the savings he was expected to achieve.

    There would be a series of calculations over several pages. The ideal, various compromises, then, on the last page, the most he could possibly give them.
    Each department would come in and Andy Burnham would turn to the back page and offer them that.
    Failing upwards ... a great British tradition.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,650
    edited 10:39AM

    The King!! Go the King!!

    Just partial cashed out on Lab leader on BF and put over £300 in the kitty.

    I very pleasant start to a hot weekend.



    Nice, I laid Reform and Restore in Makerfield like there's no tomorrow.

    That and finding some bets on Andy B as next Lab leader means I am no longer going to the poorhouse if Andy B becomes next PM.

    Ed Miliband at 100/1 also helped.
    He's still 43/1 for anyone who thinks it isn't quite going to go as Andy B wants it to somehow.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,372
    You can't conclude Reform are finished because of two by-elections in Greater Manchester. Their strongest areas are probably West Midlands, East Midlands and East Anglia.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,120

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Utter made up right wing nonsense.

    Her gender, race, colour is immaterial.

    She's useless

    Thats a political judgement nothing elss
    These are difficult days for you
    Nice chutzpah from you there Big_G, given the Tories are averaging less than 20% in the polls with no obvious path up.
  • PeterCairnsPeterCairns Posts: 173
    MattW said:

    It seems it may have been Russia who won the "oil tank lid toss" world record, when one of their own Manpads blew it up. I'm not totally sure, but it's fun.

    (suchomimus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-L2FeRSVU

    Classic ...Lets fire a heat seeking missile at a small drone flying over a burning refinery...What could possibly go wrong!

    Peter.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,650

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    Wow, he's actually right for once.

    I've been banging the drum on this for years. As have others.

    The problem is we are so utterly inconsistent now in our tax rates, and heavily penalise those with the highest costs (eg young parents) with the highest tax rates, all to featherbed certain voters into not having to pay those taxes.

    Everyone on the same income should pay the same taxes.
    Student loans/tax is a disaster that just keeps killing political parties. Although Liberals have managed to come back from that near death experience.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,979

    MattW said:

    It seems it may have been Russia who won the "oil tank lid toss" world record, when one of their own Manpads blew it up. I'm not totally sure, but it's fun.

    (suchomimus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-L2FeRSVU

    Classic ...Lets fire a heat seeking missile at a small drone flying over a burning refinery...What could possibly go wrong!

    Peter.
    It does seem to epitomise the self-harming violent aggression of Russia quite neatly.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,758
    MattW said:

    It seems it may have been Russia who won the "oil tank lid toss" world record, when one of their own Manpads blew it up. I'm not totally sure, but it's fun.

    (suchomimus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-L2FeRSVU

    The whole thing is too unlikely for fiction.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,929

    Lord almighty, I kinda agree with Aaron Bastani

    Why did the Tories die?

    Partly because they spent 14 years trying to destroy anyone who, sociologically speaking, might vote for them in the future.

    That’s right. They purposefully tried to stop the re-production of the middle class.




    https://x.com/AaronBastani/status/2067666479319793932

    Wow, he's actually right for once.

    I've been banging the drum on this for years. As have others.

    The problem is we are so utterly inconsistent now in our tax rates, and heavily penalise those with the highest costs (eg young parents) with the highest tax rates, all to featherbed certain voters into not having to pay those taxes.

    Everyone on the same income should pay the same taxes.
    Student loans/tax is a disaster that just keeps killing political parties. Although Liberals have managed to come back from that near death experience.
    Merge student loans, income tax, national insurance and UC taper into one negative income tax so everyone pays the same tax rate.

    Would screw over Millennials who like myself who paid their loan repayments, but our generation always gets screwed by all changes it seems.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,398
    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Best to keep to that line that any anti-Kemi dialogue is due to her sex and colour. It provides a fig leaf of delusion so you don't need to look at her comparative career to date and her track record as LOTO.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,410

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    er... members vote?
    Not if only Streeting gets on the ballot as above. (81 needed)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,632
    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    I'm still wondering why the school thought it necessary to collect a quiche?
    Dull reasons, none of which make the situation any less ridiculous.
    Daughter made a quiche in cookery lesson yesterday but had to leave it (and school) early for a (disastrous) piano exam, from which she came straight home. Cookery teacher said she would remove quiche from oven and daughter could take it home today. But today is Sports Day, which is off-site at the athletics club in the local park. Daughter collected quiche first thing and apparently left it at the office for wife to collect so she wasn't having to take a quiche to Sports Day for it to sit in the Greater Manchester sun all day.
    But when wife got to school, the office denied the existence of any sort of quiche.
    So a mystery. Albeit a very boring, middle class one.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,249
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    Burnham will get the support of the 81+ MPs who are his natural supporters in the PLP. He will also now pick up the support of a large chunk of the rest of the PLP whose main concern will be seen to back the winner now that Starmer is seen as a dead man walking and Burnham as a shoe-in. If Streeting couldn't get 81 nominations before, when he had to pull his challenge, he certainly can't now.

    Meanwhile Burnham won't be lending votes to anyone. He has nothing to lose by forcing a formal leadership contest, in which Labour will quickly unite around him, and quite a lot to gain by being credited as the one who did for Starmer especially from those who are not natural Labour supporters and see Starmer as toxic.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346

    Brixian59 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Utter made up right wing nonsense.

    Her gender, race, colour is immaterial.

    She's useless

    Thats a political judgement nothing elss
    These are difficult days for you
    Nice chutzpah from you there Big_G, given the Tories are averaging less than 20% in the polls with no obvious path up.
    So you haven't noticed Kemi leads in approval rates, she won Aberdeen South last night together with 2 locals defeating reform

    Time will tell but the Andy - Kemi show is about to come to town

    Kemi like all politicians has faults but she will lead into GE29 and even on here her improvement has been recognised
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,758
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    I'm still wondering why the school thought it necessary to collect a quiche?
    Dull reasons, none of which make the situation any less ridiculous.
    Daughter made a quiche in cookery lesson yesterday but had to leave it (and school) early for a (disastrous) piano exam, from which she came straight home. Cookery teacher said she would remove quiche from oven and daughter could take it home today. But today is Sports Day, which is off-site at the athletics club in the local park. Daughter collected quiche first thing and apparently left it at the office for wife to collect so she wasn't having to take a quiche to Sports Day for it to sit in the Greater Manchester sun all day.
    But when wife got to school, the office denied the existence of any sort of quiche.
    So a mystery. Albeit a very boring, middle class one.
    Were there many crumbs in the office?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,410
    Cookie said:

    dixiedean said:

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    I'm still wondering why the school thought it necessary to collect a quiche?
    Dull reasons, none of which make the situation any less ridiculous.
    Daughter made a quiche in cookery lesson yesterday but had to leave it (and school) early for a (disastrous) piano exam, from which she came straight home. Cookery teacher said she would remove quiche from oven and daughter could take it home today. But today is Sports Day, which is off-site at the athletics club in the local park. Daughter collected quiche first thing and apparently left it at the office for wife to collect so she wasn't having to take a quiche to Sports Day for it to sit in the Greater Manchester sun all day.
    But when wife got to school, the office denied the existence of any sort of quiche.
    So a mystery. Albeit a very boring, middle class one.
    Quichegate is surprisingly more interesting than the politics today. We are in a holding pattern again until Monday (? - AB sworn in and goes for it? Wes goes for it?)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,917
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    That’s a great line for the Tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,650

    Paul Mason
    @paulmasonnews

    3/ It's clear there will now be a demand for a change of leadership. But without total reset of economic policy it's pointless. End Treasury's veto on Labour growth strategy, meet the 3% defence target, cap rents, build council homes and renationalise water...


    Paul Mason
    @paulmasonnews


    4/ You could do all of that in 12 months and take on and smash the far right billionaires trying to destroy our democracy using new social media legislation...

    https://x.com/paulmasonnews/status/2067814977713369568
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,341
    Aberdeen South does have some of the feel of being Kemi's Uxbridge moment, tbh.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,410
    Battlebus said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's interesting reading some of the reactions from the mostly male PB commentators about Aberdeen south and above all Kemi Badenoch. There is much to criticize in the Tory party but I feel that some on the left remain affronted that the Tories have another woman in charge and moreover, a black woman. I think it gets to them, as the long wait continues in the Labour party for anything remotely similar. Sure she's made errors, but she works and last night she won. Give her and the party a break!

    Best to keep to that line that any anti-Kemi dialogue is due to her sex and colour. It provides a fig leaf of delusion so you don't need to look at her comparative career to date and her track record as LOTO.
    PB knows that party leader ratings are sometimes a leading indicator of party performance. She's not brilliant but she is better than terrible and certainly better than the bile-spewing biased Brixham based bot makes out.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,479

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    From the previous thread header: "Labour’s former deputy leader Harriet Harman say the party’s MPs should now decide the leadership - with no say for the party members - in order to preserve the ‘stability of government’ "

    No. Once again Harman gets it wrong. It must be done by the book, and Burnham will actually get a boost by being seen to be responsible for dragging Starmer kicking and screaming away from No 10. Those who voted for Burnham yesterday weren't voting for more of the same, anything but.

    Burnham must be acutely aware that Harriet Harman's actions led to the demise of his leadership campaign in 2015, after she overstepped her brief as acting temporary leader by trying to force through policy to the agenda of the right of the party and gave him the dilemma of whether or not to resign from the Shadow Cabinet. He made the wrong choice to stay in and the left of the party turned against him, paving the way for Corbyn.

    Harman is the last person who should be offering him advice on this.

    So when 11 years later Harriet Harman is advising a particular course of action, Burnham's first recourse should be to look to follow the exact opposite course. Give Starmer the weekend to announce his planned departure, in the knowledge that on Monday Burnham will regardless announce that he is standing for the leadership with the support of way over the required 81 MPs. Very likely a simple Burnham v Starmer contest according to party rules, because Streeting can't I think muster 81 supporters now that Burnham is a dead cert.

    Can he launch a leadership bid Monday?
    Technically he isn't an MP until swearing in.
    Or am I wrong?
    Streeting could, though, and Burnham could announce even if his formal entry would be delayed a bit.
    If Streeting had 81 names we'd already have a contest.
    He'll have considerably fewer now. He'll need loans.
    Streeting's path to power is somewhat rickety to say the least.

    Here's a scenario for him:

    Streeting's pitch to Burnham's support could be "You don't want Andy wielding the dagger, lend your vote to me". Someone gets in Keir's ear "Do not put yourself through the humiliation of a contest which Burnham is going to beat you handily in" and he resigns

    Nominations count:
    Streeting 85
    Burnham 80

    Streeting becomes PM.
    er... members vote?
    Not if there's only 1 candidate above the threshold. Would not be the case though since you are never going to stop the clock with only 165 MPs nominating.
    Burnham is, I think, likely to receive more than 250 nominations, and it's possible he will receive enough nominations to prevent any other candidate reaching 81, particularly as the remaining MPs will be split between Streeting supporters, on the right, and the Socialist Campaign group, on the left.

    So the question is whether Starmer dogs his heels in and forces a vote, and when Burnham forces the issue.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346
    edited 10:49AM
    Andy_JS said:

    You can't conclude Reform are finished because of two by-elections in Greater Manchester. Their strongest areas are probably West Midlands, East Midlands and East Anglia.

    I do not think anyone is saying that but this will have an effect on public perception and with a new labour leader and improved conservative leader the job just gets harder
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,914
    I have some very good news.

    There’s going to be lots of threads on the alternative vote system because Labour uses AV to elect their leaders.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,917
    MattW said:

    It seems it may have been Russia who won the "oil tank lid toss" world record, when one of their own Manpads blew it up. I'm not totally sure, but it's fun.

    (suchomimus)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-L2FeRSVU

    It was an air defence missile rather than a Manpads, but yes the lid that got blown off that tank was a self-inflicted wound by the Russians.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,773

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    FPT. Kemi Badenoch absolutely nails it, politically pitch perfect...

    Kemi Badenoch@KemiBadenoch
    This is a significant result, and I want to start by congratulating @DLumsden_MSP
    on becoming the new Member of Parliament for Aberdeen South and the newest Conservative MP!

    Makerfield was about one man’s job.

    Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas across our country and the future of an entire city.

    Yesterday, the people of Aberdeen sent a message on behalf of the whole country. Energy security is national security. They know it is common sense to use our own oil and gas rather than importing it from overseas. They know it is madness to make ourselves poorer, weaker and more dependent at a time when even the government’s own intelligence says we are under threat. The first duty of any government is to keep its people safe. The Conservative Party will always put Britain’s security first.

    What makes this result particularly significant is that many people who voted Conservative today have never voted Conservative before. I want to thank every one of them.

    Many will have voted for us because they care deeply about Aberdeen and its future. Many will have voted for us because they are sick of the SNP’s shenanigans. Others because they are worried about what Labour’s policies mean for their jobs and livelihoods. Many voted for us because they wanted a strong local champion.

    Douglas is that champion. He has lived in Aberdeen all his life. He spent two decades working in the oil and gas industry. He knows this city, he knows its people, and throughout this campaign he brought energy, optimism and a genuine belief in Aberdeen’s future. Wherever he went, he had a smile on his face and a positive message about what this great city can achieve.

    The Conservative Party is working to earn the trust of the country again. I am grateful and humbled that Aberdeen looked at the choice before them and decided that the Conservative Party was the party that would fight for families, workers and business.

    Thank you, Aberdeen. I will never stop fighting for you. Douglas will never stop fighting for you.

    The Conservative Party will keep fighting for common sense, a stronger economy and a stronger country.
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2067861410059612497

    Again FPT...
    X
    Dean M Thomson@DeanMThomson
    "Makerfield was about one man’s job. Aberdeen South was about thousands of jobs in oil and gas"
    That line has cut through. Burnham's team will wince, as face prospects of a bloodied coup to oust Starmer. As Labour descends into infighting, free-range for Tories to define him
    https://x.com/DeanMThomson/status/2067879031270449511
    In your/his dreams. Goodness me, PB Tories are going down a rabbit hole this morning, when the attention of everyone other than those in the North East of a different country is focused elsewhere.
    First off.. Dean is not only a long time Scottish Labour supporter and his uncle also happened to be a Scottish Labour MP for 23 years back in the day! Secondly, he has also been and continues to be an incredible astute observer of Scottish politics with a keen insight into some of the SNP Government's biggest scandals not covered by the UK media in recent years and has now appeared and been interviewed on the UK news channels! Seriously, do your homework and check him out on X before making such lazy assumptions like this!!

    The results last night in the three Westminster by-elections definitely made the positions of PM Keir Starmer at Westminster and FM John Swinney at Holyrood far more precarious, and I say this despite the SNP hold in one of their absolutely nailed on heartland seats in Arbroath and Broughty Ferry. But again do your homework and check out the less than subtle X posts by newly elected SNP MSP and now former SNP Aberdeen South MP Stephen Flynn on the back of Scottish Conservative gain where he made it clear he is looking to replace John Swinney as SNP leader just like Andy Burnham is equally clearly hoping to replace Keir Starmer as the current Labour PM and leader!

    But wiser heads might also note that quietly in the background Kemi Badenoch had a very good night as Conservative party leader and this will have only gone onto strengthen her own position within her party and among the centre right electorate going forward, especially as Nigel Farage looks to be focussing more and more on his big earning interests outside Westminster as Reform and the newly created Restore party descend into an ever more acrimonious fight for the former far right UKIP vote....

    A prediction you can hold me too, come the next GE Keir Starmer, John Swinney, Ed Davey and Zack Polanski will no longer be leaders of their parties but Kemi Badenoch will lead the Conservatives into that election.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,081
    edited 10:53AM
    We know no king but the King in the North, whose name is Burnham.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,914


    The King!! Go the King!!

    Just partial cashed out on Lab leader on BF and put over £300 in the kitty.

    I very pleasant start to a hot weekend.



    Nice, I laid Reform and Restore in Makerfield like there's no tomorrow.

    That and finding some bets on Andy B as next Lab leader means I am no longer going to the poorhouse if Andy B becomes next PM.

    Ed Miliband at 100/1 also helped.
    He's still 43/1 for anyone who thinks it isn't quite going to go as Andy B wants it to somehow.
    Remember that mad afternoon in May when Ed Miliband became the favourite on Betfair ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,346
    Sky

    There are now 98 Labour mps calling for Starmer to go
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,917
    Oh, it appears the Ukranian UFOs are back over Moscow this afternoon.

    https://x.com/saintjavelin/status/2067911472097656979
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 61,917
    WTF is this story?

    https://x.com/skynews/status/2067894540254445641

    BREAKING: Man arrested after toddler ended up in crocodile enclosure 'not fit for interview' and released

    “Ended up”, “Released”..?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,632

    Cookie said:

    Any markets on the next GM mayor yet? I have a view but nowhere to put it...

    Gary Neville?
    Bev Craig.
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