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  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2014
    Austin Mitchell - Grimsby - UKIP
    "The seat Labour should watch most closely, however, is Great Grimsby – a heartland seat that the party has held unbroken since 1945. Between 1997 and 2010 the Labour vote here slumped, from 26,000 to just 11,000. Many of these voters have already switched to anti-system parties, which won a combined 14% share of the vote in 2010 – though this was splintered across four candidates. Ukip also already have history here: they won 18% of the vote and one seat in the 2012 local elections, and in 2013 did even better in neighbouring Lincolnshire, winning 31% of the vote and 16 seats.

    Since 1977 Great Grimsby has been in the hands of 79-year-old MP Austin Mitchell. If he were to step down, this would present Ukip with an ideal combination: an open seat with very favourable demographics, splintered local politics, an established anti-system vote, and a strong Ukip presence at the grassroots."

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/25/uk-east-coast-ukip-incursion

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/greatgrimsby/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Time methinks for another_richard to buy a new Euro motor

    All those thinking the UK economic recovery is just cyclical should read this little snippet from Bloomberg on the pan-Europe revival in car sales.

    The [European] industry wide gain in March [in new car sales] was the biggest since December.

    In the U.K., which overtook France to become Europe’s second-biggest auto market in 2012, sales amounted to 464,824 cars amid a semi-annual changeover of license-plate numbers that indicate a vehicle’s age and after wage growth accelerated and the unemployment rate declined. The [18%] gain compared with a 5.4 percent increase in Germany to 296,408 cars.

    “These British guys seem to be mad about new cars,” [Hans-Peter] Wodniok, a German motor industry analyst said.

    The International Monetary Fund raised its forecast for the U.K. on April 8, predicting Britain will have the fastest growth among developed nations. The economy will expand 2.9 percent this year, outpacing the 1.2 percent increase predicted for the countries using the euro, according to the Washington-based IMF.


    I really do fear Real Madrid CF or FC Bayern München are about to put in a transfer bid for our George.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @volcanopete

    'That will go straight towards paying off the grotesque fuel bills.'

    Just get down on your knees and thank Ed for all those green taxes and doing nothing about energy prices when he was Secretary of State for Energy.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    5 days of strikes for Londoners.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Pulpstar said:

    Labour's 5 and 6 out of 10s are the key to the close Populus. All about the Labour GOTV machine, Con/UKIP supporters will come out come hell or high water relative to Labour. Alot of "Can't be arsed, perhaps on a sunday" in the Labour camp.

    "Summat came up".
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    MrJones said:

    MrJones said:

    JBriskin said:

    Snowden asks Putin a question!!

    I wonder if the Snowden leaks have revealed enough about the West's military capabilities and doctrines to give Putin the confidence to forge ahead with his Ukrainian campaign?
    Britain and America off-shored their industrial base and rebuilt their economies around megabanks operating at a 33:1 capital ratio.

    Megabanks operating at a 33:1 capital ratio can't do crisis.

    It's just simple arithmetic.
    Would you care to name the banks operating at those ratios?
    It's Basel III

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-12/banks-get-scaled-back-rule-on-debt-limit-from-basel-regulators.html

    "While the regulators amended how banks should calculate the size of their assets, they didn’t change the percentage of their own funds needed to meet the rule.

    The committee will still require banks to hold capital equivalent to at least 3 percent of their assets, without any possibility to take into account the riskiness of their investments."
    It's more Basil III I'm worried about.

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited April 2014
    "Summat came up".


    If Labour voters can't be ar3ed to turn out for a GE, what chance of them turning out for the euro vote in May? What's the ratio of labour supporter to actual labour voter there?

  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Lucas - Not Guilty
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    'The committee will still require banks to hold capital equivalent to at least 3 percent of their assets'

    But which ones are actually operating at that level, and not holding more?
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Yay! SeanT's back.

    I'm a fan. Might just be my age. Do you like the Beatles?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited April 2014
    Indeed, 98% of Britpop was overhyped bollocks.

    Agree completely. Oasis specialised in setting angry lyrics to angry music, but when you drill down into the songs its very difficult to discern any meaning or narrative. It's all image.

    On a par with the Beatles? Oasis are not even on a par with the Ruttles...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    edited April 2014

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL

    Big city government is the key. Greater Manchester should override its boroughs and have a big GM mayoralty a la London. This should have happened years ago.

    People of Manchester said no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')
    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government. The City of Westminster doesn't have a directly elected Mayor, so their vote wasn't out of line with that.

    London's governance structure has worked extremely well. If any government is serious about the northern cities competing with the place, they need to have someone in charge of the overall economy of these places. You're not going to get that in just one fifth of the conurbation.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL

    Big city government is the key. Greater Manchester should override its boroughs and have a big GM mayoralty a la London. This should have happened years ago.

    People of Manchester said no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')
    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government.
    Indeed. Absolute waste of time having a mayor for an arbitrary sliver of land in the middle of the conurbation.

    The government should have gone for a GM mayor.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL

    Big city government is the key. Greater Manchester should override its boroughs and have a big GM mayoralty a la London. This should have happened years ago.

    People of Manchester said no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')
    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government. The City of Westminster doesn't have a directly elected Mayor, so their vote wasn't out of line with that.

    London's governance structure has worked extremely well. If any government is serious about the northern cities competing with the place, they need to have someone in charge of the overall economy of these places. You're not going to get that in just one fifth of the conurbation.
    Good luck finding enthusiasm for that in the YouGov Cardiff poll.....

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    Dan Hodges will post about how this will be bad for Ed Miliband. Like a stopped clock he will be correct - hopefully the short term effect will allow a level YouGov poll thus winning the Q2 bet with Paddy ;)
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Fair play Sean - 1>0
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL

    Big city government is the key. Greater Manchester should override its boroughs and have a big GM mayoralty a la London. This should have happened years ago.

    People of Manchester said no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')
    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government. The City of Westminster doesn't have a directly elected Mayor, so their vote wasn't out of line with that.

    London's governance structure has worked extremely well. If any government is serious about the northern cities competing with the place, they need to have someone in charge of the overall economy of these places. You're not going to get that in just one fifth of the conurbation.
    Good luck finding enthusiasm for that in the YouGov Cardiff poll.....

    The YouGov poll only asked about power being devolved to local authorities. You seem to be struggling on this difference.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Off Topic - The by election that is not happening .
    Cheltenham BC

    It appears that Andy Wall , Conservative councillor for Battledown ward on Cheltenham BC sent the council an Email in January giving "formal notice" that he intended to resign so that a by election could be held on May 22nd . The council are saying that an intention to resign is NOT an official resignation and he is still a councillor and it is now too late for a by election to be held on May 22nd .
    The local Conservatives are blaming the chief executive who in return has said that any competent political party would know the strict electoral rules and not send in a "resignation" with no effective date but giving a date for the by election which is not in the power of a resigning councillor to demand .
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    Some excellent articles on the problems of getting driverless trains on the Underground:
    http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/driverless-trains-piccadilly/
    http://machorne.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/driverless-trains-and-undergrounds-deep.html

    Basically: it is technically feasible if money is spent; operationally it may be more difficult. It will not happen on a large scale, especially on the deep-level tube, for decades.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 2014
    taffys said:

    Indeed, 98% of Britpop was overhyped bollocks.

    Agree completely. Oasis specialised in setting angry lyrics to angry music, but when you drill down into the songs its very difficult to discern any meaning or narrative. It's all image.

    On a par with the Beatles? Oasis are not even on a par with the Ruttles...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClcwKgxu2wk
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
  • Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Bristol may have an independent mayor, but there is also a petition of no confidence which is gathering signatures.

    http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/community/petition/2286
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')

    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government. The City of Westminster doesn't have a directly elected Mayor, so their vote wasn't out of line with that.

    London's governance structure has worked extremely well. If any government is serious about the northern cities competing with the place, they need to have someone in charge of the overall economy of these places. You're not going to get that in just one fifth of the conurbation.
    Good luck finding enthusiasm for that in the YouGov Cardiff poll.....

    Who is talking about Cardiff? We are simply saying that if we want to develop Manchester it needs a metropolitan wide mayor with real powers. Nothing you have posted tells me that you even grasp the concept.

  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    taffys said:

    Indeed, 98% of Britpop was overhyped bollocks.

    Agree completely. Oasis specialised in setting angry lyrics to angry music, but when you drill down into the songs its very difficult to discern any meaning or narrative. It's all image.

    On a par with the Beatles? Oasis are not even on a par with the Ruttles...

    In my mind Britpop and New Labour are fused. Travesties of music and politics which shame humanity.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @SeanT

    They can't compete with the Beatles:

    Honey pie, honey pie
    Honey pie, honey pie
    Honey pie, honey pie
    Honey pie, honey pie
    I love you honey pie

    Or there's this gem:

    Why don't we do it in the road?
    Why don't we do it in the road?
    Why don't we do it in the road?
    Why don't we do it in the road?
    No one will be watching us
    Why don't we do it in the road?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    Indeed, 98% of Britpop was overhyped bollocks.

    Agree completely. Oasis specialised in setting angry lyrics to angry music, but when you drill down into the songs its very difficult to discern any meaning or narrative. It's all image.

    On a par with the Beatles? Oasis are not even on a par with the Ruttles...

    Oasis's lyrics aren't just meaningless, they are laughably, laughably bad. Some of the worst lyrics in the history of piss poor lyrics.


    Hey you! Up in the sky
    Learning to fly
    Tell me how high
    Do you think you’ll go
    Before you start falling

    http://godonnybrook.com/v3/the-30-worst-oasis-lyrics-ever-definitely-maybe-edition/
    I was more of a Nirvana teenager..

    My fav lyrics were these, which described Kurt Cobain's disappointment upon moving from a sleepy NW Pacific town called Aberdeen to trendy, bohemian Olympia and discovering the same cliques exist in every social group...

    Wouldn't you believe it
    It's just my luck
    Wouldn't you believe it
    It's just my luck
    Wouldn't you believe it
    It's just my luck
    Wouldn't you believe it
    It's just my luck

    No recess
    No recess
    No recess

    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again

    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again
    You're in high school again

    No recess
    No recess
    No recess

    No recess
    No recess
    No recess
    No recess

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @SeanT

    Where were you when we were getting high?
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Well done Sean - whether through luck or research you've found the best (and therefore worst) example.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    dr_spyn said:

    Bristol may have an independent mayor, but there is also a petition of no confidence which is gathering signatures.

    http://epetitions.bristol.gov.uk/epetition_core/community/petition/2286

    Again, that is not a metropolitan mayor - it's just for the official city of Bristol.
  • "Can't complain, mustn't grumble, help yourself to another piece of apple crumble, yeah, yeah!"

    That's the sort of lyrics we need more of.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Socrates is slagging off the White Album. Mods - surely that is a banning offence???
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Who remembers 1997, St Tony was in charge and things could only get...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgMl9qBTBq0
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Travesties of music and politics which shame humanity.

    Except of course for Pulp's 'Common people'. That song has completely skewered the modern middle class PPE at Oxford labour party. It just gets more and more relevant and biting as time goes on. Maybe UKIP should use it in their PPBs....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    I hate to bring this back to politics:
    Caroline Lucas has been cleared.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-27069345
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2014

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Who remembers 1997, St Tony was in charge and things could only get...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgMl9qBTBq0

    Brian Cox on keyboards. I saw him in Dare way before that, still got a cd somewhere.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Mr. Jessop, good. Spares her adding the self-righteousness of martyrdom to her damned hypocritical sanctimoniousness.

    On music: Queen are super.

    As well as the big hits, there are quite a few, especially early ones, with fantasy imagery (My Fairy King, The Prophet's Song, March of the Black Queen). '39 is my favourite country-rock song about the relativity of time dilation caused by faster than light travel [did a blog some time ago about the problem of faster than light travel in sci-fi: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/sci-fi-speed-of-light-problem.html].
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history. The acoustic version of Wonderwall is halfway bearable, all else is pants.

    Indeed, 98% of Britpop was overhyped bollocks.
    I was quite fond of Sleeper

    Overhyped bollocks ;-)
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Morris - I heard on the Today Programme (copyright) that Queen Greatest Hits is the biggest selling album in the UK ever.
  • Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    "Can't complain, mustn't grumble, help yourself to another piece of apple crumble, yeah, yeah!"

    That's the sort of lyrics we need more of.

    Nah: best British lyrics of the 90s are Beautiful South. Here's Woman in the Wall, for instance

    He was just a social drinker but social every night
    He enjoyed a pint or two or three or four
    She was just a silent thinker, silent every night
    He'd enjoy the thought of killing her before
    Well he was very rarely drunk but very rarely sober
    And he didn't think the problem was his drink
    But he only knew his problem when he knocked her over
    And when the rotting flesh began to stink
    Cry freedom for the woman in the wall
    Cry freedom for she has no voice at all
    I hear her cry all day, all night
    I hear her voice from deep within the wall
    Made a cross from knitting needles
    Made a grave from hoover bags
    Especially for the woman in the wall
    She'd knitted him a jumper with dominoes on
    So he wore it everyday in every week
    Pretended to himself that she hadn't really gone
    Pretended that he thought he heard her speak
    Then at last it seemed that he was really winning
    He felt that he had some sort of grip
    But all of his new life was sent a-spinning
    When the rotting wall began to drip
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2014
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    Tsk.


    I saw Zep in 79 at Knebworth and they were great and all that, but what I would give to go back to 1970-73 when they were in their pomp: the greatest rock band of all time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1Hb9ABpyts
    I think Queen live, must have been astounding, if only for Mercury's showmanship and stage presence. Regret never going to one of their concerts.
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    RE: Beautiful South

    I failed an OU course because of a BS/Youtube combo.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    Next said:

    Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?
    If Sting feels like skiving off, let him.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?

    The band?

    Sometimes I wish they had....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    JBriskin said:

    RE: Beautiful South

    I failed an OU course because of a BS/Youtube combo.

    So it wasn't a Perfect Ten.
  • Next said:

    Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?
    Nope, they used to get paid extra, and have a decent wage structure to compensate for not having the right to strike.

  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Next said:

    Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?
    If Sting feels like skiving off, let him.
    I wondered who would be first...
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    It was a Perfect 10/10 for procrastination :)
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    edited April 2014

    Next said:

    Next said:

    Next said:

    JBriskin said:

    5 days of strikes for Londoners.

    Driverless trains cannot come soon enough.

    If an extremist group caused as much disruption to London transport as the RMT, they would be labelled a terrorist organisation.
    A bit hysterical.
    Employees using their right to withdraw their labour is hardly on a par with slaughtering innocent people on a tube train. Still, in your world, maybe it is.

    I said "disrupt", not "slaughter".

    We are not talking about employees merely withdrawing from some standalone factory in a dispute. But deliberately disrupting the lives of millions of "hard-working" people, who will be the ones who suffer because of it.

    Still, in your world, maybe that is acceptable.
    Yeah, it is, more than acceptable. The right to withdraw labour is still legal in this country.

    Are the Police allowed to withdraw labour?
    Nope, they used to get paid extra, and have a decent wage structure to compensate for not having the right to strike.

    LU drivers are well paid too. And by the nature of their job, they should have limits on the kind of industrial action they can take.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Briskin, a few months ago I think the Greatest Hits album sold its six millionth copy in the UK.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    Re Britpop: The remarkable thing about it wasn't the quality of the music, which with the exception of a veneer of quality on the top was pretty thin, but that for the first time I can remember - and to the greatest extent I can remember - Indie music was mainstream. I could enthusiastically make a far better case for the period immediately before Britpop being a golden period for British indie than the Britpop period itself: Stone Roses, Happy Mondays, Wedding Present, New Order, Inspiral Carpets, Neds Atomic Dustbin; even the bands who crossed both periods like Pulp and the Charlatans got a lot of their better stuff out of the way prior to Britpop really kicking off. There was quality in the second division bands, too: New Fast Automatic Daffodils, Paris Angels, Flowered Up, World of Twist; all of these knocked their counterparts of the Britpop era like These Animal Men and S*M*A*S*H into a cocked hat. Despite all this, bands of the Britpop era managed a lot more commercial success, and had a lot more influence on the mainstream than indie music had really managed previously. THIS is why the era can be celebrated.
    On Blur vs Oasis, while identifying with arty Londoners* over guitar-heavy Mancunians seems unnatural to me, Blur win every time. Definitely Maybe was actually a pretty good album, and they did one or two well-crafted singles and b-sides besides that: Married with Children and She's Electric prove that Oasis can do lyrics. But there was no need for anything Oasis did after about 1995, which was basically just rehashing the same thing, less well. Whereas not only was Parklife the quintessential Britpop album, it was Blur's second or third re-invention of themselves, and they went on to reinvent themselves two or three more times subsequently. Their music may not be as visceral, but I can't help admire its cleverness.
    I'd actually plump for Pulp's "His 'n' Hers" as the best Britpop album. Marginally overlooked in comparison to Different Class, but only really for reasons of timing of release rather than quality.

    *Yes I know they're actually from Essex.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    SeanT said:

    OK best gigs ever?

    I saw the Pogues when they were at their peak - and it was in the Brixton Academy, ON ST PATRICK'S DAY.

    It turned into a kind of hysterical comradely brawl, with everyone cheerfully punching everyone else in the face, but in a good way - with everyone drunk or high, of course.

    Fantastic night.

    I went to see Springsteen last year and loved it. I'm too young to have had the chance of seeing him in his prime, but imagine it was incredible.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    "OK best gigs ever?"

    Continuing the Britpop theme - I'll say Placebo - and for double bonus kudos my Gf has just offered up the Pixies on the Surfer Rosa tour.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    Charles said:

    "Can't complain, mustn't grumble, help yourself to another piece of apple crumble, yeah, yeah!"

    That's the sort of lyrics we need more of.

    Nah: best British lyrics of the 90s are Beautiful South. Here's Woman in the Wall, for instance

    (snip excellence)
    They did have some rather great lyrics. I remember buying 'Blue is the Colour' on tape in Sheffield with my then-gf, before listening to it in my Land Rover. She was a bit prudish, and her reaction to the (mild) swear word on the first song was priceless. It even had a sticker on the case warning of the bad language. How times change ...

    Warning: this is the uncensored version, NSFW audio:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHnhMvSxOf0&feature=kp

    Music is the nearest thing we have to time travel; certain songs can take you back to a time and place. When I hear Joan Armatrading's 'Love and Affection' I think of walking along the Grand Union Canal in 1995, supremely happy after having talked to a friend on my (now stupidly chunky) mobile phone.

    The lyrics of 'Liar's Bar' are quite poignant, especially when being sung by an alcoholic:
    Well sitting in a bar alone
    where no-one knows your name
    is like laying in a graveyard
    wide awake
    You're scared that if you cough or yawn
    you might wake up the dead
    So pretend to read a paper
    or just drink instead

    I'm a stand-up comedian
    but I'd sit down if I could
    The world just seems
    to want folk like me to stand
    And the punch-lines seem to disappear
    like clouds across the sky
    And the laughter could be real
    or could be canned

    Rum by the kettle drum
    Whiskey by the jar
    At Liar's Bar
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    90s music was utterly crap compared to the 80s, 70s and 60s.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    corporeal said:

    SeanT said:

    OK best gigs ever?

    I saw the Pogues when they were at their peak - and it was in the Brixton Academy, ON ST PATRICK'S DAY.

    It turned into a kind of hysterical comradely brawl, with everyone cheerfully punching everyone else in the face, but in a good way - with everyone drunk or high, of course.

    Fantastic night.

    I went to see Springsteen last year and loved it. I'm too young to have had the chance of seeing him in his prime, but imagine it was incredible.
    Seen him six or seven times since the first time in 1988. Always a great performance and rarely less than 3 1/2 hours on stage and 25+ songs. Best live performer around for the last 3 decades.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    Travesties of music and politics which shame humanity.

    Except of course for Pulp's 'Common people'. That song has completely skewered the modern middle class PPE at Oxford labour party. It just gets more and more relevant and biting as time goes on. Maybe UKIP should use it in their PPBs....

    Pulp were the only decent band to emerge from Britpop. "Babies" is another great song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38by00DGid0&feature=kp

    Acute social observation, and poignantly cynical lyrics.
    A great band although I also have a great liking for Suede. Never could understand all the fuss over Blur or Oasis though.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    My best gig ever? Tina Turner at Wembley.

    I'm not even slightly embarrassed, she was a brilliant performer.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    I'm always sceptical when I hear rock concerts were 'amazing'.

    Come off it. After a three hour trek and ages standing in a cold field you got jostled by smelly drunken idiots whilst watching a few tiny specks play a furry version of some music you quite like. You got charged 100 quid for the privilege, plus a tenner a go for crap lager and fifteen quid for a lentil burger.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    JBriskin said:

    "OK best gigs ever?"

    Continuing the Britpop theme - I'll say Placebo - and for double bonus kudos my Gf has just offered up the Pixies on the Surfer Rosa tour.

    I went to watch Blur at Mile End in 1995 but it rained all day and so I went back to "Charmers" nightclub in Romford before they came on!

    Went to Knebworth to see Oasis is summer of 96.. all was going well until I pushed my way to near the front, smoked a joint & had a panic attack!





  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A good example of the paucity of talent in the 90s is that Patrice Rushen's 1982 hit Forget Me Nots was sampled twice in the space of two years, in 1996 for George Michael's Fastlove and in 1997 for Will Smith's Men In Black.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    I am sure most people could mention the Lemon Song :-)

    But being able to name songs is meaningless in the debate about who is a great band or not. Indeed for a lot of great bands (Talking Heads and Dire Straits being prime examples) their best tracks are not the ones most people remember them for.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited April 2014
    corporeal said:

    SeanT said:

    OK best gigs ever?

    I saw the Pogues when they were at their peak - and it was in the Brixton Academy, ON ST PATRICK'S DAY.

    It turned into a kind of hysterical comradely brawl, with everyone cheerfully punching everyone else in the face, but in a good way - with everyone drunk or high, of course.

    Fantastic night.

    I went to see Springsteen last year and loved it. I'm too young to have had the chance of seeing him in his prime, but imagine it was incredible.
    I went to a 'Tunnel of Love' concert in 1988, on a freebie ticket. I wasn't a fan, but have to say, it was excellent.

    Oddest gig, was Bowie doing Drum and Bass for about 100 people sometime in the 90's, in a bar in Shepherds Bush.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    taffys said:

    I'm always sceptical when I hear rock concerts were 'amazing'.

    Come off it. After a three hour trek and ages standing in a cold field you got jostled by smelly drunken idiots whilst watching a few tiny specks play a furry version of some music you quite like. You got charged 100 quid for the privilege, plus a tenner a go for crap lager and fifteen quid for a lentil burger.

    You really do need to go to a Springsteen concert if that is what you think. Of course being a fan in the first place helps.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    I am sure most people could mention the Lemon Song :-)

    But being able to name songs is meaningless in the debate about who is a great band or not. Indeed for a lot of great bands (Talking Heads and Dire Straits being prime examples) their best tracks are not the ones most people remember them for.
    Pink Floyd too.. apart from "Another Brick In the Wall Pt2" could many people name 5 songs by them?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    Best gigs ever: SeanT's post about the Pogues gig emphasises that for live music to be really exhilarating, you need a band at the top of their powers, giving you something much more than you'd get by listening to their album, and an audience who are really, really up for it. I'd nominate Therapy? at the Octagon, Sheffield, in 1995. Happy mayhem. They brought a cellist, who played on every song, whether the song had a cello part of not, and the crowd-surfing started some time before the band came on. I remember being carried over people's heads, hordes of people cheerfully chanting 'you fat bast*rd' at me; and later getting somebody's boot in my face. One of the best nights out of my life.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    One for our Russian friends: the incomparable Al Stewart. A soldier's story about the Russian retreat during Barbarossa.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZG6tRGMYk&feature=kp

    Although my favourite of his is 'Old Admirals' about Admiral John Fisher. We got married on a ship that Fisher crewed when he was just a young Lieutenant, and we played the song as our first dance ...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    I am sure most people could mention the Lemon Song :-)

    But being able to name songs is meaningless in the debate about who is a great band or not. Indeed for a lot of great bands (Talking Heads and Dire Straits being prime examples) their best tracks are not the ones most people remember them for.
    You had me right up until the point you mentioned Dire Straits.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    AndyJS said:

    90s music was utterly crap compared to the 80s, 70s and 60s.

    Agreed. For me as a rock fan the best decade by far was the 70s although I would probably have to push it back into the late sixties a bit.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    I am sure most people could mention the Lemon Song :-)

    But being able to name songs is meaningless in the debate about who is a great band or not. Indeed for a lot of great bands (Talking Heads and Dire Straits being prime examples) their best tracks are not the ones most people remember them for.
    You had me right up until the point you mentioned Dire Straits.
    Again I would agree with you if talking about anything after the first 3 albums (although I would grab Telegraph Road from the fourth album.

    But by the time they got really popular in the early 80s they should have given up already.

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    Whole Lotta Love?

    Or at least to recognise, Zeppelin's songs don't exactly lend themselves to name recognition.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Incidentally, it's interesting to consider which musicians will still be played in centuries, much as Beethoven is today.

    I think the Beatles are overrated. I'm not knocking them, and I do like them, but I think a large part of their popularity is simply that they coincided with the birth of rock and roll (well, nearly) and, more importantly, the baby boomers who became lifelong fans.

    They'll still be played in a century, though. Likewise Queen.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Best gigs - Undertones, The Jam, The Pogues, The Q-Tips.

    Blessed was it to live in North London and be young in mind and body in the late 70s and 80s.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    taffys said:

    I'm always sceptical when I hear rock concerts were 'amazing'.

    Come off it. After a three hour trek and ages standing in a cold field you got jostled by smelly drunken idiots whilst watching a few tiny specks play a furry version of some music you quite like. You got charged 100 quid for the privilege, plus a tenner a go for crap lager and fifteen quid for a lentil burger.

    You need to weigh up the acts on vs the 'festival experience'. Donington's layout was better when they had the bands on in the middle of the racecourse for sure though. The trek to the bands was ridiculous, though Rammstein's Live show was amazing.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682

    Incidentally, it's interesting to consider which musicians will still be played in centuries, much as Beethoven is today.

    I think the Beatles are overrated. I'm not knocking them, and I do like them, but I think a large part of their popularity is simply that they coincided with the birth of rock and roll (well, nearly) and, more importantly, the baby boomers who became lifelong fans.

    They'll still be played in a century, though. Likewise Queen.

    It was interesting to hear a lot of the US rock and blues bands who became monstrously successful in the late sixties and seventies saying that it was hearing the Beatles for the first time made them realise what could be done with what had, until then, been predominantly a black minority music form. It is difficult to underestimate the influence of the Beatles on modern music.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Worst gig - The Temptations at the Hammersmith Odeon. I'd been looking forward to it so much as they are an all time favourite band of mine, but the lead singer was stoned out of his mind and kept forgetting the words and wandering off stage. He died a few weeks later.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @Richard_Tyndall

    Indeed. Dylan's most famous song is "Blowing in the Wind". It would be ridiculous to judge the man's genius by that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Tyndall, not really my subject, but didn't lots of black rock and roll get basically stolen and repackaged by white Americans in the 1950s? Pretty sure Rock Around The Clock was a black guy's hit, with Haley and the Comets just 'covering' it and getting more coverage.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    SeanT said:

    OK best gigs ever?

    For geeky reasons, Genesis, Hampden 1987

    For other reasons, Big Country, Playhouse, some years later

    Worst gig, Iron Maiden
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    What's wrong with Vanilla? This is the 3rd time I've had to sign in today.
    I'm getting really fed up with it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Socrates said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @DavidL

    Big city government is the key. Greater Manchester should override its boroughs and have a big GM mayoralty a la London. This should have happened years ago.

    People of Manchester said no:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_mayoral_referendums,_2012#Manchester

    As did 9 of the 11 cities asked (only Bristol said 'Yes', and Darlington said 'keep')
    That was a completely different question. That's whether they should have an elected mayor for just the city of Manchester. Nothing to do with whether the overall metropolitan area should have a common government. The City of Westminster doesn't have a directly elected Mayor, so their vote wasn't out of line with that.

    London's governance structure has worked extremely well. If any government is serious about the northern cities competing with the place, they need to have someone in charge of the overall economy of these places. You're not going to get that in just one fifth of the conurbation.
    Good luck finding enthusiasm for that in the YouGov Cardiff poll.....

    The YouGov poll only asked about power being devolved to local authorities. You seem to be struggling on this difference.
    You'll struggle to find anything in the Cardiff (I see Bobawhatsit has missed the point) poll showing enthusiasm for regional power.....
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Mr. Tyndall, not really my subject, but didn't lots of black rock and roll get basically stolen and repackaged by white Americans in the 1950s? Pretty sure Rock Around The Clock was a black guy's hit, with Haley and the Comets just 'covering' it and getting more coverage.

    Nobody repackaged African American music for a white audience more clearly than British bands, the Rolling Stones being the prime example.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Pleased to see Caroline Lucas is not going to do time.The decision though must have disappointed a few who would mount a "Save The Balcombe 1" campaign.
    Brighton Pavilion is on a knife-edge,evens the pair,Green and Lab.You might think Evs on the sitting MP, who should benefit from an incumbency factor and a high media profile is big but,as with so many of these really close marginals,you do not know all the local factors which come into play,such as the organisational strength for the ground war of the various parties.
    The Greens on the council entered into conflict with the GMB over refuse workers pay and conditions,which has not done their left-wing credentials much good.Whether the MP supporting the workers on the picket line striking against her own Green council will benefit remains in doubt.
    There are smaller Lab/Green fights going on but Brighton Pavilion is the main attraction.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    antifrank said:

    My best gig ever? Tina Turner at Wembley.

    I'm not even slightly embarrassed, she was a brilliant performer.

    Sounds like she's simply the best.

    (I'll get me coat)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    The later Pulp stuff is excellent too : both We Live Life, and This is Hardcore

    Radiohead deserves a mention, although whether they are really britpop is another question.

    And I would like to recommend The National, which is American and not from the 90s and d being one of the best bands you probably haven't heard yet.
  • I quite like the Blue Nile myself.

    Floyd songs? Comfortably Numb and One of My Turns.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    It is difficult to underestimate the influence of the Beatles on modern music.

    100% agree. To support your point, I remember the Beach Boys' Brian Wilson talking about the huge impact 'Rubber Soul' made on him when it came out.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,952
    Mr. Socrates, I was unaware of that (as I said, not really my area. About 2,300 years too modern).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    MikeK said:

    What's wrong with Vanilla? This is the 3rd time I've had to sign in today.
    I'm getting really fed up with it.

    Me too!

    I'm planning to replace it on my next business trip, which means the week of the 28th...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited April 2014
    Socrates said:

    Mr. Tyndall, not really my subject, but didn't lots of black rock and roll get basically stolen and repackaged by white Americans in the 1950s? Pretty sure Rock Around The Clock was a black guy's hit, with Haley and the Comets just 'covering' it and getting more coverage.

    Alot of covers are more famous than the original.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    isam said:

    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    JBriskin said:

    RE: Oasis V Blur

    Here's my combined top ten-

    10 -Not Lesiure
    9 - Not 13
    8 - Parklife
    7 - Don't Believe the Truth
    6 - Be Here Now
    5 - Standing on the Shoulder's of Giants
    4 - Dig Out Your Soul
    3 - Modern Life is Rubbish (I've got Lib Dem sympathies)
    2 - Blur
    1 - (What's the Story) Morning Glory [for the zeitgeist]

    The two most overrated bands in British music history.
    Yup. They're almost on a par with Led Zeppelin.
    I'm going to have to leave this debate before I get angry.
    Not surprising that the Watcher is as wrong about music as he is about politics. :-)
    Some people are too easy to wind up.

    However, other than 'Stairway...' are there any tracks that a sizeable majority could name?
    I am sure most people could mention the Lemon Song :-)

    But being able to name songs is meaningless in the debate about who is a great band or not. Indeed for a lot of great bands (Talking Heads and Dire Straits being prime examples) their best tracks are not the ones most people remember them for.
    Pink Floyd too.. apart from "Another Brick In the Wall Pt2" could many people name 5 songs by them?
    Er, yeah - many people could name every single track off Dark Side of the Moon which is the greatest album ever made, bar none, and has sold 50 million copies - 50 million - making it also one of the most commercially successful albums of all time.

    And the song Wish You Were Here, natch.
    I personally could name 50 or 60 but I don't think many people know the names of more than a handful, because they didn't release many singles
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    Incidentally, it's interesting to consider which musicians will still be played in centuries, much as Beethoven is today.

    I think the Beatles are overrated. I'm not knocking them, and I do like them, but I think a large part of their popularity is simply that they coincided with the birth of rock and roll (well, nearly) and, more importantly, the baby boomers who became lifelong fans.

    They'll still be played in a century, though. Likewise Queen.

    What I'll be interested to see Mr Dancer is whether playing covers spreads to become more of a thing.

    In classical music there's an expectation to aspiring to performers to tackle the great works of history. There's a similar more communal attitude in blues (although there many of the songs have unknown authors so less ownership) in popular music almost the opposite.

    Obviously we don't have the recordings of Beethoven etc, but it'll be interesting to see if rock music does go that way somewhat in the future when it's a more distant past.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Nobody repackaged African American music for a white audience more clearly than British bands, the Rolling Stones being the prime example.

    Every year, Eurovision does us the immense favour of reminding us where we would be musically without the amazing influences of black music.

    It's worth watching, just for that.
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