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Kemi Badenoch is determined to bring the nasty party label back– politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,848
    An interesting theory from the Daily T, that the Tory Defector list is heavily overlapped with Tories who spoke at the National Conservatism in 2023.

    A partial list from the 2023 Nat Con London conference:

    Suella Braverman MP (Home Secretary, keynote speaker)
    Michael Gove MP (Conservative government minister, keynote speaker)
    Jacob Rees-Mogg MP (Conservative government minister, keynote speaker)
    Lee Anderson MP (featured speaker)
    Miriam Cates MP (featured speaker)
    John Hayes MP (featured speaker)
    Danny Kruger MP (featured speaker)
    David Frost (featured speaker)
    Daniel Hannan (featured speaker)

    I'm more inclined to the slightly cynical theory that they are washed up political failures in their 40s and 50s who view Reform defection as a Hail Mary pass to recovering a career.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvCqiy_4y8w
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,326
    Time to rename themselves as the Reformatives.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,200
    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman today:

    "The one nation wets have won the Conservative party. The centrists control it, they populate it, and they are welcome to it. The truth is that, in recent years, I have found myself effectively in a social democrat, left-leaning party made up of conservatives in name only – Chino."

    Can somebody tell me what this social democrat left-leaning party might be? I've been trying to find one.

    The idea Kemi is a latter day Ted Heath or Heseltine or even a Cameron is laughable, she is fiscally more conservative than Farage
    Well quite. Kemi was (until a few weeks ago) roughly in the middle of the Conservative party as it is right now. That's to say pretty right wing by the standards of recent history.

    The Heath/Heseltine wets wandered off ages ago, and there's not much to attract them back. Even if they aren't dead yet. Losing Team Bobby J stops a drift even further to the right, but that's all.
    It is fun how public perceptions, and even labels among the political classes, are so persistently out of date. You'd think there had been no movement at all within political parties as far as most people acknowledge, it takes something like a Corbyn to Starmer transition to persuade people, and that took suspending the old man and barring him from standing to accomplish.

    Christ, we still talk about people being Blairite or Brownite, which might as well be pre-WW2 for all it has relevance now.

    (Ok, that is an exagerration too far, but you get the point).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,115
    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Not lovely Katie?!!

    Reform source:

    "Katie Lam is going to be one of the next Conservative MPs to defect to Reform UK. She’s been on the fence for a while, but after seeing her closest allies join Reform, she feels like she’s got to make a decision."


    https://x.com/charliesimpsona/status/2015808754327957733?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Wow. She’s their last hope

    If she goes that’s it
    That's way more of a shocker than Jenrick - she is one of those who should be the future, if the Tories have a future. It is starting to look like death by a thousand cuts.

    (Spoke to quite a few of the colleagues who are Denton residents today, all furious about SKS blocking Burnham. All Labour 2024 voters.)
    I’d be fucking furious if I was Labour. Not least because, as a Reform supporter (despite their many many flaws) Burnham is much more of a threat than Skyr

    Burnham is personable, mildly charming, quite left wing without being weirdly dogmatic. I could see him being a fairly effective fresh prime minister capturing 30-35% of the vote

    Starmer is viscerally loathed, politically inert, emotionally inept, with actual hints of treachery (Chagos, Hermer, China) - he’s the ideal opponent for Nigel
    Lectures on treachery from Nigel "Russia Today" Farage and Reform "Welsh leader in jail for taking bribes from Putin" UK?
    I’m not trying to make a clever point. I’m being honest

    As things stand, I want Reform to sweep to victory. This is not because they are flawless - quite the opposite. I despair of Farage, sometimes, and they have some very sketchy characters in the ranks

    Nonetheless they’ve got my vote for now

    So I really don’t want Labour led by an effective leader that might halt a Reform victory. To me, Burnham looked exactly like that: a potentially effective leader

    And Starmer has kneecapped him. lol
    Never has this site’s faith in the curse of Leondamus been stronger. Hopefully receiving your vote will be on a par with a touch of the Hope Diamond, except that the only hope involved will accrue to the rest of us.
    Unless I am mistaken, Leon typically tends to vote the winner - Blair 97, Cameron, Brexit, Boris, Starmer. Not sure if you voted for May, Hague or Howard.
    Yes, you’re right, there’s usually a short delay before it all rapidly turns to s**t. I wonder whether the process can be speeded up?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,295
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735
    Battlebus said:

    Time to rename themselves as the Reformatives.

    Personally I think the merger of the two when it comes (give it 4-5 years, sometime post GE) will result in them being the Reform and Conservative Party.

    Boring, but Farage will want Reform to come first, and by that point nationalists will be running all the devolved administrations and I doubt the unionist label will be big on their minds.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007

    eek said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Um, I don't see any prices rises - although we really won't know until Wednesday when they launch the new M5 Max chips.
    $599 in US, were $499. UK they were £549, now £599. Amazon they have gone £529 to £549, highest price for 3 months. Despite as you say M5 chip out this week and new M5 mac mini is coming March or June, so you would expect price ticking down to get rid of all the stock.
    They are still available for $499 in the US - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1859258-REG/apple_mu9d3ll_a_mac_mini_m4_10c_10cgpu_16gb_256gb.html

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,295

    I see SKSs message that Reform are pro Russian is going well

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53606-do-britons-see-reform-uk-as-pro-russia

    There's a massive split between how the Conservatives and Reform see Russia there.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,482
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735
    MattW said:

    An interesting theory from the Daily T, that the Tory Defector list is heavily overlapped with Tories who spoke at the National Conservatism in 2023.

    A partial list from the 2023 Nat Con London conference:

    Suella Braverman MP (Home Secretary, keynote speaker)
    Michael Gove MP (Conservative government minister, keynote speaker)
    Jacob Rees-Mogg MP (Conservative government minister, keynote speaker)
    Lee Anderson MP (featured speaker)
    Miriam Cates MP (featured speaker)
    John Hayes MP (featured speaker)
    Danny Kruger MP (featured speaker)
    David Frost (featured speaker)
    Daniel Hannan (featured speaker)

    I'm more inclined to the slightly cynical theory that they are washed up political failures in their 40s and 50s who view Reform defection as a Hail Mary pass to recovering a career.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvCqiy_4y8w

    Multiple things can be true at the same time.

    I've seen some vaguely anti-Trump comments from Hannan recently so he's probably not going for Reform, Rees-Mogg might be too caught up in his identity as a Tory and Gove, well, who can really tell with Gove, but he seems checked out of politics so why even bother?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,925

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
    LOL! Getting fussy all of a sudden!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,796
    Yesterday they were domestic terrorists who deserved to die.

    Today...

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    @atrupar.com‬
    · 17m

    Leavitt: "Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized by illegal alien criminals"


    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mddufpzvtq2z
  • I suspect Starmer goes in 2028 or 2029.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,857
    edited 6:47PM
    Deleted
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007
    On the subject of Clawdbot:


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,128

    Yesterday they were domestic terrorists who deserved to die.

    Today...

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    @atrupar.com‬
    · 17m

    Leavitt: "Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized by illegal alien criminals"


    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mddufpzvtq2z

    Trump has better political instincts than Starmer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,390

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735

    I see SKSs message that Reform are pro Russian is going well

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53606-do-britons-see-reform-uk-as-pro-russia

    There's a massive split between how the Conservatives and Reform see Russia there.
    Yes indeed, though foreign policy disagreements may be easier to paper over in any future agreement to co-operate/merge, so long as Farage avoids being too egregious. Especially as it states Conservative voters don't think Reform are pro-Russia (that many former Tories have joined Reform may play a role in them thinking that).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,791
    The reports coming out of Iran suggest that the numbers up dead might quite possibly be multiple tens of thousands.
    The level of brutality certainly seems to be unprecedented, even for this regime.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,390

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
    Last summer, he said he wouldn't have Suella.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    None posher than someone trying to appear posh.

    See the stereotypical butler even more conscious of status and appearance than their atristrocratic master.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007
    algarkirk said:

    Fishing said:

    algarkirk said:

    And for those who don't like FON, a poll from a extreme, ultra-right wing news source

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/01/andy-burnham-could-win-andrew-gwynnes-seat


    Retain Gorton, lose the whole of Greater Manchester.

    That's like exchanging your queen for a pawn in a game of chess.
    The way to beat Reform is for the government to run the country brilliantly well, and communicate well with the UK population. Might they give that a try instead of worrying about individuals and the micro politics of a seat or a city?

    "Brilliantly well" isn't really necessary after the past 30 years - I'd settle for tolerable competence.
    I agree actually. Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. (Or for today's politics, never let the desultory be the enemy of the merely direly awful.)

    In our house we have a saying:

    "Don't let competent be the enemy of barely acceptable."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 6:51PM

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone still in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735

    Yesterday they were domestic terrorists who deserved to die.

    Today...

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    @atrupar.com‬
    · 17m

    Leavitt: "Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized by illegal alien criminals"


    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mddufpzvtq2z

    I know they don't care about their old words being thrown back at them, but it'd be nice if they considered their reflexive hyper-aggressive self defence approach could use a little adjustment. You could be robust in immediate defence without labelling everyone who dies a domestic terrorist intent on a massacre.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,857
    Trump's average approval rating is already lousy at -14 but there must be a good chance that it heads further south over the next few days.

    There's a significant delay between US fieldwork and release of polling which is for the moment shielding Trump from the polling consequences of Alex Pretti's murder 2 days ago. On Nate Silver's polling average, of the 10 polls used, the least outdated concluded its fieldwork 3 days ago and the most outdated concluded 18 days ago. Further, even the most recent (Rasmussen) takes fieldwork spread from 19/1 to 23/1, that is a rolling 5 day average.

    So every single published poll in the US appears for the moment to predate Pretti's murder.

    PS. I suspect that more up to date internal polling has prompted Trump's attempts to reverse ferret today.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
    What's his beef with Priti as compared to Jenrick and Suella?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,295

    Storm Chandra on its way.

    That name should trigger a few.

    Let's hope it's as effective as he was at the Battle of Imphal.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    edited 6:50PM
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Um, I don't see any prices rises - although we really won't know until Wednesday when they launch the new M5 Max chips.
    $599 in US, were $499. UK they were £549, now £599. Amazon they have gone £529 to £549, highest price for 3 months. Despite as you say M5 chip out this week and new M5 mac mini is coming March or June, so you would expect price ticking down to get rid of all the stock.
    They are still available for $499 in the US - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1859258-REG/apple_mu9d3ll_a_mac_mini_m4_10c_10cgpu_16gb_256gb.html

    Not on the official Apple site. I think Scan in the UK had them for £499 a couple of weeks ago, but Apple / Amazon have upped their prices.

    Edit:- Scan is now £549.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,432
    Given the weekend I’ve had it feels very much like a Dominic Calvert-Lewin hat-trick is now incoming.
    🤦🏻‍♂️😂


    https://x.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/2015852763570139500?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,796
    We are not taking any old retread rubbish latest::



    m Montgomerie 🇬🇧
    @montie

    Let's spell it for those who haven't noticed: The Tories are now facing their biggest crisis of recent decades. The MPs most committed to policies that are popular with their traditional voters are defecting. Many of the remaining MPs are basically blue LibDems. Like a wounded animal it is lashing out - making nasty and personal attacks of the kind levelled at Suella Braverman today. With both of the main two British parties cracking up at the same time we are witnessing something genuinely historic.

    https://x.com/montie/status/2015847163880734732
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Bear in mind that if you use Claude in non-API mode on Clawdbot, you are contravening their terms of service, and they will cut you off. I ran through $5 of API tokens in about 15 minutes yesterday.

    I bet you that Anthropic will release their own version of Clawdbot (probably called... Claudebot...) that will run on the Max plan imminently.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,275
    isam said:

    Given the weekend I’ve had it feels very much like a Dominic Calvert-Lewin hat-trick is now incoming.
    🤦🏻‍♂️😂


    https://x.com/AndyBurnhamGM/status/2015852763570139500?s=20

    A soccer reference. What a true man of the people he is.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    edited 6:57PM
    rcs1000 said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Bear in mind that if you use Claude in non-API mode on Clawdbot, you are contravening their terms of service, and they will cut you off. I ran through $5 of API tokens in about 15 minutes yesterday.

    I bet you that Anthropic will release their own version of Clawdbot (probably called... Claudebot...) that will run on the Max plan imminently.
    Other than messing about I don't use it for anything serious. A lot of those threads about what it did are obviously fake / spoofs, but you are crazy if you actually link it to anything you care about as it has so many security holes.

    I actually use Claude Code (terrible name for a product that isn't just about code) for serious work and I just eat the Super Max Tier and have it whirl away.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
    What's his beef with Priti as compared to Jenrick and Suella?
    Fell out ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,128
    Here's a logical puzzle. Complete the sequence:

    1. Governor of the Bank of Canada
    2. Governor of the Bank of England
    3. Prime Minister of Canada
    4. ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,735
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    The thing about logic is if an underlying fact or premise is mistaken it can lead you to some very wild places.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,925
    OT. Great story about Scafell Pike. Two climbers didn't pay their hotel food and taxi bills after being saved by mountain rescue on the mountain. It's the first time it's happened in 40 years and the hotel and mountain rescue have been inundated with offers of money.

    After spending a day hearing about Farage and his sleazeballs it's a cleansing story
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Um, I don't see any prices rises - although we really won't know until Wednesday when they launch the new M5 Max chips.
    $599 in US, were $499. UK they were £549, now £599. Amazon they have gone £529 to £549, highest price for 3 months. Despite as you say M5 chip out this week and new M5 mac mini is coming March or June, so you would expect price ticking down to get rid of all the stock.
    They are still available for $499 in the US - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1859258-REG/apple_mu9d3ll_a_mac_mini_m4_10c_10cgpu_16gb_256gb.html

    Not on the official Apple site. I think Scan in the UK had them for £499 a couple of weeks ago, but Apple / Amazon have upped their prices.

    Edit:- Scan is now £549.
    Amazon is also at $499.

    So I don't think there's any evidence yet that Clawdbot is increasing demand for Mac Minis to the extent that its affecting prices. But that could change. (FWIW, the Mac Mini is pretty good with smaller models, so you could probably do a hybrid Clawdbot on there that uses the Mac for 90% of the tokens, and offloaded the harder thinking to Anthropic/whoever.)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,847

    Here's a logical puzzle. Complete the sequence:

    1. Governor of the Bank of Canada
    2. Governor of the Bank of England
    3. Prime Minister of Canada
    4. ...

    Prime Minister of the UK !
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,275
    Roger said:

    OT. Great story about Scafell Pike. Two climbers didn't pay their hotel food and taxi bills after being saved by mountain rescue on the mountain. It's the first time it's happened in 40 years and the hotel and mountain rescue have been inundated with offers of money.

    After spending a day hearing about Farage and his sleazeballs it's a cleansing story

    No it’s not. It means the two sleazeballs didn’t ponce off the hotel but they ponced off the mugs who paid their bill.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    It looks like Farage has managed to attract the three least popular Tory MPs into his coven. For the rest of us it's quite good to have all the nastiest shits in one place

    Just waiting for Priti to defect.
    Farage just said he wouldnt have her

    Maybe he is learning
    What's his beef with Priti as compared to Jenrick and Suella?
    Fell out ?
    She delivered the Boriswave
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    When you lose Polly Toynbee you are in trouble

    Guardian

    Here’s the lesson of the Andy Burnham saga: Labour needs a new leader – fast

    Polly Toynbee
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,295

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,857
    Roger said:

    OT. Great story about Scafell Pike. Two climbers didn't pay their hotel food and taxi bills after being saved by mountain rescue on the mountain. It's the first time it's happened in 40 years and the hotel and mountain rescue have been inundated with offers of money.

    After spending a day hearing about Farage and his sleazeballs it's a cleansing story

    Were Farage and one of his sleazeballs out walking in Cumbria this weekend?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,007

    rcs1000 said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Bear in mind that if you use Claude in non-API mode on Clawdbot, you are contravening their terms of service, and they will cut you off. I ran through $5 of API tokens in about 15 minutes yesterday.

    I bet you that Anthropic will release their own version of Clawdbot (probably called... Claudebot...) that will run on the Max plan imminently.
    Other than messing about I don't use it for anything serious. A lot of those threads about what it did are obviously fake / spoofs, but you are crazy if you actually link it to anything you care about as it has so many security holes.

    I actually use Claude Code (terrible name for a product that isn't just about code) for serious work and I just eat the Super Max Tier and have it whirl away.
    There are two scary things: (1) someone could update Clawdbot's source code so it stole passwords, etc (imagine it has access to your main email account, and can even delete emails so you never see the password reset email); (2) prompt inject attacks.

    I have given it access to a Linux VM which is not logged into any of my accounts. I am considering giving it access to a Gmail account that has some access - say can read and write calendar entries. And if you create some MCPs you can *maybe* add some restricted ability to do stuff.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,868
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    I'm sure this has already been dsaid but just two thoughts.

    1 Her timing is extraordinary. Just as Labour were ready to eviscerate Starmer for his unforgivable pettiness with regard to Burnham she upstages him and his story disappears

    2. Anyone listening to Kemi B on Desert Island Discs will be less surprised by the mass exodus from her Party than they would have been before listening. In fact I'm surprised she hasn't joined Farage.

    What did she pick on DID?
    You can listen to Kemi on Desert Island Discs (or scroll to the bottom of the blurb)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002qgm2
  • isamisam Posts: 43,432
    If Katie Lam defects, that is a major coup for Reform/blow for the Tories. She really is the future, not a has been like all the others. Together with Badenoch, she has the chance to present the Tories as a bright and energetic, modern party, in a way none of those who have defected so far could. I hope it doesn't happen
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,349

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    I'm sure this has already been dsaid but just two thoughts.

    1 Her timing is extraordinary. Just as Labour were ready to eviscerate Starmer for his unforgivable pettiness with regard to Burnham she upstages him and his story disappears

    2. Anyone listening to Kemi B on Desert Island Discs will be less surprised by the mass exodus from her Party than they would have been before listening. In fact I'm surprised she hasn't joined Farage.

    What did she pick on DID?
    You can listen to Kemi on Desert Island Discs (or scroll to the bottom of the blurb)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002qgm2
    She confirmed what I have always thought. People join other parties for vaguely ideological reasons, but people join the Conservatives to network.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,532

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    Kemi has stated she disagrees with the councils and wants the elections to take place

    If the councillors disagree they have a choice - accept or resign
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,951
    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure the Braverman defection is a game changer any more than the Jenrick move was a while back.

    Any hopes of a "Unification of the Right" once more lie in the dust or if you prefer the hyphen has been removed from Reform-Conservative.

    Whether this turns out to be an existential battle for the "soul" of the "right" remains to be seen but it opens up some intriguing avenues in other parts of politics. Clearly, and quite reasonably, Badenoch is going to put forward a conservative programme for Government but whether that is as replete with internal contradictions as Starmer's social democracy or Farage's populism remains to be seen.

    What, for existence, will be the Badenoch line on tax cuts - aspirational or actual? What about spending cuts - whose spending, where and when? What about education, health, defence etc, etc. Simply saying you want to balance the public finances is laudable but as someone once said, "where's the beef?".

    There's also what I'm calling the Amber Valley Question - like the West Lothian Question but a big further south. The Amber Valley (NOT to be shortened to AV in case it gets @TSE and others over stimulated) Question states - if you are a Conservative supporter in Amber Valley, do you vote Labour to keep Reform out or do you vote Conservative which might hand the seat to Reform?

    There's an East Ham Question about Labour and the Newham Independents but we'll save that for another day.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,956

    Panorama on the Post Office tonight.

    It’s been called the worst miscarriage of justice in British history. Hundreds of postmasters were wrongly prosecuted after money disappeared from the Horizon computer system. But who’s really to blame for the Post Office scandal?

    With the public inquiry due to deliver its final report later in 2026, the Metropolitan Police says it is looking at more than 50 'persons of interest'. They include managers, investigators and lawyers. Reporter Andy Verity investigates some of those responsible for decisions that saw innocent postmasters jailed, lives destroyed and reputations ruined.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m002qlf9/panorama-post-office-whos-to-blame

    As long as the politicians walk away unscathed...

    From what I can see the politicians (of all parties) have a lower level of blame - they were lied to, repeatedly, by the Post Office managers.

    See the various politicians who believed the lies they were told over Hillsborough.

    The people who are truly criminals in this are those who knew there was a problem and orchestrated a coverup that included lying to ministers, lying to parliament and lying to the courts.
    No - the politicians don't get to avoid responsibility.

    - It was they who determined the structure whereby the Post Office was accountable to nobody.
    - It was the Ministry of Justice and the Attorney- General which failed to ensure any oversight at all of the Post Office's prosecutions or even to ensure that someone was ensuring they were complying with the law on how prosecutions should be conducted.
    - It was Business Ministers who made Royal Mail privatisation a priority which was largely responsible for the cover up which started around the same time and in response to it. You couldn't have given the shares away if the prospectus had been honest about what had been going on at the PO while Royal Mail was in charge of it.

    Yes - they were lied to but they created the structure, the conditions and the incentives for Board members and staff to lie - to them, to the courts, to the press, to sub-postmasters, to Parliament. They were enablers, not merely dim-witted victims.

    I should declare an interest. I played a very tiny part when this programme was first mooted (some months go) in making suggestions about who it should cover. (And, now that I remember, in another professional capacity at the time of the privatisation.)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,452

    Yesterday they were domestic terrorists who deserved to die.

    Today...

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    @atrupar.com‬
    · 17m

    Leavitt: "Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized by illegal alien criminals"


    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mddufpzvtq2z

    There isn't really a template for what happens when a Nazi Barbie starts talking about being all heart, compassion and empathy for the regime's enemies.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    edited 7:16PM
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure the Braverman defection is a game changer any more than the Jenrick move was a while back.

    Any hopes of a "Unification of the Right" once more lie in the dust or if you prefer the hyphen has been removed from Reform-Conservative.

    Whether this turns out to be an existential battle for the "soul" of the "right" remains to be seen but it opens up some intriguing avenues in other parts of politics. Clearly, and quite reasonably, Badenoch is going to put forward a conservative programme for Government but whether that is as replete with internal contradictions as Starmer's social democracy or Farage's populism remains to be seen.

    What, for existence, will be the Badenoch line on tax cuts - aspirational or actual? What about spending cuts - whose spending, where and when? What about education, health, defence etc, etc. Simply saying you want to balance the public finances is laudable but as someone once said, "where's the beef?".

    There's also what I'm calling the Amber Valley Question - like the West Lothian Question but a big further south. The Amber Valley (NOT to be shortened to AV in case it gets @TSE and others over stimulated) Question states - if you are a Conservative supporter in Amber Valley, do you vote Labour to keep Reform out or do you vote Conservative which might hand the seat to Reform?

    There's an East Ham Question about Labour and the Newham Independents but we'll save that for another day.

    'What, for existence, will be the Badenoch line on tax cuts - aspirational or actual? What about spending cuts - whose spending, where and when? What about education, health, defence etc, etc. Simply saying you want to balance the public finances is laudable but as someone once said, "where's the beef?".'

    Its all about immigrants and stopping the boats

    Everything else is irrelevant to their obsession

    And enables Kemi to address the economy and things that really matter
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,452
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm not sure the Braverman defection is a game changer any more than the Jenrick move was a while back.

    Any hopes of a "Unification of the Right" once more lie in the dust or if you prefer the hyphen has been removed from Reform-Conservative.

    Whether this turns out to be an existential battle for the "soul" of the "right" remains to be seen but it opens up some intriguing avenues in other parts of politics. Clearly, and quite reasonably, Badenoch is going to put forward a conservative programme for Government but whether that is as replete with internal contradictions as Starmer's social democracy or Farage's populism remains to be seen.

    What, for existence, will be the Badenoch line on tax cuts - aspirational or actual? What about spending cuts - whose spending, where and when? What about education, health, defence etc, etc. Simply saying you want to balance the public finances is laudable but as someone once said, "where's the beef?".

    There's also what I'm calling the Amber Valley Question - like the West Lothian Question but a big further south. The Amber Valley (NOT to be shortened to AV in case it gets @TSE and others over stimulated) Question states - if you are a Conservative supporter in Amber Valley, do you vote Labour to keep Reform out or do you vote Conservative which might hand the seat to Reform?

    There's an East Ham Question about Labour and the Newham Independents but we'll save that for another day.

    The Cumbria seat question is similar (except for Farren's fortress). All seats were Tory in 2019. All Labour in 2024. All projected to go Reform. Do you vote Labour or Tory to keep out Reform?

  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Um, I don't see any prices rises - although we really won't know until Wednesday when they launch the new M5 Max chips.
    $599 in US, were $499. UK they were £549, now £599. Amazon they have gone £529 to £549, highest price for 3 months. Despite as you say M5 chip out this week and new M5 mac mini is coming March or June, so you would expect price ticking down to get rid of all the stock.
    They are still available for $499 in the US - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1859258-REG/apple_mu9d3ll_a_mac_mini_m4_10c_10cgpu_16gb_256gb.html

    Not on the official Apple site. I think Scan in the UK had them for £499 a couple of weeks ago, but Apple / Amazon have upped their prices.

    Edit:- Scan is now £549.
    Amazon is also at $499.

    So I don't think there's any evidence yet that Clawdbot is increasing demand for Mac Minis to the extent that its affecting prices. But that could change. (FWIW, the Mac Mini is pretty good with smaller models, so you could probably do a hybrid Clawdbot on there that uses the Mac for 90% of the tokens, and offloaded the harder thinking to Anthropic/whoever.)
    Macs are becoming more attractive because it's getting very difficult to build or buy a PC for AI work at a sane price. On top of the RAM and SSD price hikes, NVidia is discontinuing all its 16GB cards below the 5080, and the 5080s are going up in price rapidly. A Mac Mini with 24GB unified RAM costs about £200 less than a 5080 on its own.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,452

    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    I'm sure this has already been dsaid but just two thoughts.

    1 Her timing is extraordinary. Just as Labour were ready to eviscerate Starmer for his unforgivable pettiness with regard to Burnham she upstages him and his story disappears

    2. Anyone listening to Kemi B on Desert Island Discs will be less surprised by the mass exodus from her Party than they would have been before listening. In fact I'm surprised she hasn't joined Farage.

    What did she pick on DID?
    You can listen to Kemi on Desert Island Discs (or scroll to the bottom of the blurb)
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002qgm2
    She confirmed what I have always thought. People join other parties for vaguely ideological reasons, but people join the Conservatives to network.
    In the post war days when the Tory party was something to be reckoned with, with membership in millions, the young middle classes joined in droves for the best of all possible reasons - to find a nice girl or a decent bloke.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:21PM

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,999
    In an effort to de-escalate, the Trump Admin is benching the Nazi-Cosplayer for Mr. Bribes.

    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/2015867290403930603?s=20
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,288
    viewcode said:

    Battlebus said:

    Roger said:

    I'm sure this has already been dsaid but just two thoughts.

    1 Her timing is extraordinary. Just as Labour were ready to eviscerate Starmer for his unforgivable pettiness with regard to Burnham she upstages him and his story disappears

    2. Anyone listening to Kemi B on Desert Island Discs will be less surprised by the mass exodus from her Party than they would have been before listening. In fact I'm surprised she hasn't joined Farage.

    I didn't listen but I was this one of her choices?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlNhD0oS5pk

    Badenoch's choices in full:
    • Disc one: The Story of Tonight – Original Broadway cast of Hamilton
    • Disc two: Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough - Michael Jackson
    • Disc three: Wonderful World - Sam Cooke
    • Disc four: Be Still in the Presence of the Lord – Aled Jones and the English Session Orchestra
    • Disc five: Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen – Baz Luhrman
    • Disc six: Love is All Around – Wet Wet Wet
    • Disc seven: Carry You Home – Alex Warren
    • Disc eight: Dear Theodosia - Original Broadway cast of Hamilton
    • Book choice: Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackery
    • Luxury item: The 22 movies of the Marvel Cinematic Universe Infinity Saga
    • Castaway's favourite: Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough - Michael Jackson
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkrrknxe08o
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002qgm2
    Favourite song by a paedo. Nice.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:22PM

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
    Indeed, it was a grammar school originally
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,796

    ‪Mark Thompson‬
    @sonofathomp.bsky.social‬

    Bovino learning the inevitable fate of every Trump subcontractor.

    https://bsky.app/profile/sonofathomp.bsky.social/post/3mddvto6h6s26
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,532

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    Kemi has stated she disagrees with the councils and wants the elections to take place

    If the councillors disagree they have a choice - accept or resign
    That is four of the seven county councils in England controlled by the Conservatives (sure, there are some minority unitary authorities on top). Three of those four that made applications are majority held.

    Which poison do you prefer to believe? That they all made such a controversial application without first telling CCHQ? That that they did and Kemi said no, but she was outvoted and they did it anyway? That they were told no and did it anyway?

    Or that she thought they’d get away with it, given all the Labour councils doing the same thing, and she didn’t much fancy losing them all to Recorm.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,390
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
    Indeed, it was a grammar school originally
    So? The sixth form college I went to was a naval training base. I barely know one end of a ship from another.

    Nice comprehensive still isn't posh. Not like Dave, Boris or JRM are posh.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,951
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
    Are the elections being postponed not for the actual authorities but for the Shadow authorites which will replace them in 2027? Surrey are holding elections for the new East and West Surrey Councils in May which will exist in Shadow form until taking over when the County Council and eleven District/Borough Councils are abolished at the end of March 2027.

    The last County Council elections in Surrey, Norfolk, Suffolk and the two Sussexes were in 2021 - that means if a further delay of a year occurs, the County Councillors elected then will still be in post in March 2028 which is absurd.

    I do think Government indecision, not helped by the clear out of Ministers at DCLOG following the exit of Angela Rayner, hasn't helped.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,857
    algarkirk said:

    Yesterday they were domestic terrorists who deserved to die.

    Today...

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    @atrupar.com‬
    · 17m

    Leavitt: "Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America's streets. This includes Renee Good, Alex Pretti, the brave men and women of law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized by illegal alien criminals"


    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3mddufpzvtq2z

    There isn't really a template for what happens when a Nazi Barbie starts talking about being all heart, compassion and empathy for the regime's enemies.
    Despite the underlying tragedy behind all this, it's difficult not to feel a bit of Schadenfreude at her contortions. Very apt given that it's a German word.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
    There was a similar fight to the death over who would control the left in UK politics between Labour and the SDP/Alliance in 1983.

    Labour won and the SDP ended up becoming the centrist LDs
  • trukattrukat Posts: 115
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
    There was a similar fight to the death over who would control the left in UK politics between Labour and the SDP/Alliance in 1983.

    Labour won and the SDP ended up becoming the centrist LDs
    And what if there is no winner? What if Reform take the north and the Tories recover in the south? An Ireland solution? or do the Tories let Starmer have another go?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,503

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
    Grange Hill? What a dump! Only gets three trains each way an hour!

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,288

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    I know a Katie who is posh and a Lottie who ain't posh. The latter being a Rugby League player.

    Our dog is also called Lottie. She is a pedigree, so you could consider her to be posh.

    I hope that helps.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,951
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
    There was a similar fight to the death over who would control the left in UK politics between Labour and the SDP/Alliance in 1983.

    Labour won and the SDP ended up becoming the centrist LDs
    Yes, as I've said on here many times, the Falklands War didn't just secure Mrs Thatcher's legacy - it also secured Labour's position as the credible alternative Government and began the long journey back which ended with the Blair landslide.

    You are wrong about the SDP - some SDP members joined the LDs in 1989, others remained with David Owen, others found their way over to both the Conservative and Labour parties and arguably took both over and moved both toward a semi-social democratic positioning. Anyone remember Danny Finkelstein?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,532
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
    You can spin it all you like. It’s clear the reason why she was initially happy for there to be no elections in those areas. Imagine if Trump did this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:36PM
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
    Are the elections being postponed not for the actual authorities but for the Shadow authorites which will replace them in 2027? Surrey are holding elections for the new East and West Surrey Councils in May which will exist in Shadow form until taking over when the County Council and eleven District/Borough Councils are abolished at the end of March 2027.

    The last County Council elections in Surrey, Norfolk, Suffolk and the two Sussexes were in 2021 - that means if a further delay of a year occurs, the County Councillors elected then will still be in post in March 2028 which is absurd.

    I do think Government indecision, not helped by the clear out of Ministers at DCLOG following the exit of Angela Rayner, hasn't helped.
    No for the actual authorities.

    Shadow authority elections are the new unitary council elections with those authorities taking full office the following year when the new Mayor of the authority is elected
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,142

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
    Indeed, it was a grammar school originally
    So? The sixth form college I went to was a naval training base. I barely know one end of a ship from another.

    Nice comprehensive still isn't posh. Not like Dave, Boris or JRM are posh.
    That would make Farage far too for Reform
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    trukat said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
    There was a similar fight to the death over who would control the left in UK politics between Labour and the SDP/Alliance in 1983.

    Labour won and the SDP ended up becoming the centrist LDs
    And what if there is no winner? What if Reform take the north and the Tories recover in the south? An Ireland solution? or do the Tories let Starmer have another go?
    There will be a winner, even if one got only 1 more seat than the other they would have won.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:39PM

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    Katie Lam is probably too posh for Reform.
    She dresses posh and codes posh and has Lottie as a middle name, but is she actually posh?

    She went to a comprehensive.
    She went to Guildford County School, where she was head girl. She studied Latin and Greek independently. Then went to Trinity College Cambridge to read Classics.

    She was hardly Grange Hill.
    Indeed, it was a grammar school originally
    So? The sixth form college I went to was a naval training base. I barely know one end of a ship from another.

    Nice comprehensive still isn't posh. Not like Dave, Boris or JRM are posh.
    No, it isn't uber posh but then neither are grammar schools or minor public schools really but upper middle class.

    Proper upper class posh is Eton, Winchester, Westminster, Harrow educated and maybe a few other major public schools too like Charterhouse, Rugby and Ampleforth and Fettes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    edited 7:43PM

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    Apple don't miss a trick, pumped the price of mac minis because everybody is buying them to run their Clawdbots. Waiting for Anthropic now to release super mega Max tier at a mere $400/month.

    Um, I don't see any prices rises - although we really won't know until Wednesday when they launch the new M5 Max chips.
    $599 in US, were $499. UK they were £549, now £599. Amazon they have gone £529 to £549, highest price for 3 months. Despite as you say M5 chip out this week and new M5 mac mini is coming March or June, so you would expect price ticking down to get rid of all the stock.
    They are still available for $499 in the US - https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1859258-REG/apple_mu9d3ll_a_mac_mini_m4_10c_10cgpu_16gb_256gb.html

    Not on the official Apple site. I think Scan in the UK had them for £499 a couple of weeks ago, but Apple / Amazon have upped their prices.

    Edit:- Scan is now £549.
    Amazon is also at $499.

    So I don't think there's any evidence yet that Clawdbot is increasing demand for Mac Minis to the extent that its affecting prices. But that could change. (FWIW, the Mac Mini is pretty good with smaller models, so you could probably do a hybrid Clawdbot on there that uses the Mac for 90% of the tokens, and offloaded the harder thinking to Anthropic/whoever.)
    Macs are becoming more attractive because it's getting very difficult to build or buy a PC for AI work at a sane price. On top of the RAM and SSD price hikes, NVidia is discontinuing all its 16GB cards below the 5080, and the 5080s are going up in price rapidly. A Mac Mini with 24GB unified RAM costs about £200 less than a 5080 on its own.
    Well also for any serious ML these days a single desktop even with 5090 doesn't really cut it. You use the cloud / personal cluster for actually grunt work, it is what you want to develop on. The only big downside of the macs is their lack of metal backend for JAX, which is now really the defacto standard ML framework for LLMs and gaining a lot more widespread adoption. So the GPU grunt of any mac (I believe the M5 is about on par with something like a 4070) isn't relevant as you can't even prototype if JAX is your ML framework. But as a low cost little box to sit there and run Claude Code to plug into other things, super useful. Also if you run it separately like that with limited access, it doesn't really matter if your Claude Code agent does something stupid as I don't let it be doing things to main code base unsupervised.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:44PM
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There’s a Tory Party I’d vote for somewhere in the people that are left, especially if Labour get rid of Starmer and go to the left with Burnham “who cares about the bond markets anyway”.

    Taking Braverman was a big strategic error in my view for Reform.

    She's obviously a flake given her record of sackings and resignations, with a very high opinion of her own abilities not sured by anyone else.
    Zahawi, Jenrick and Braverman. Jeez, what a shower. These were always the sort of people who made you slightly embarrassed to be a Tory.
    Luckily, there are only 5 of you Tory voters left in the entire UK. So the sum total of human embarrassment is modest
    Mebbes.
    But the polling analysis from the new Tory ginger group ProsperUK (Andy Street, Ruth Davidson et al) shows a LOT of potential for a centre-right party. There are a few of us around, even now.
    And, let's face it, have you ever seen a more unprepossessing bunch of bampots than the Tory defectors (Danny Kruger possibly excepted). A bunch of entitled narcissists who would be at each others throats 5 minutes into govt.
    Jenrick is good. Talented. Ambitious. Clever. Like it or not - presumably not in your case - he understands social media and he knows how to use it and he is literally the only Tory to have made the political weather at any point (Badenoch excepted, but she’s the leader) since the election

    And they’ve lost him. The Tory party is not in any position to lose raw political talent. About the only other one they possess is Katie Lam. And now she’s going too?

    I do think this could be terminal
    It really isn't terminal. It's far easier to imagine circumstances in which Reform disappears than the Tories. Ultimately Reform is a NOTA protest party. Bit like Corbyn Labour which, not so long ago, had 500k members.
    Jenrick made a massive mistake. Given the split on the right, it's quite likely we'll have some form of left govt after 2029. He would have been brilliantly positioned as the Unite the Right candidate after Farage retires and Badenoch resigns - if he had stuck with the Tories. Completely blown it now. Whether Katie Lam is any brighter we'll soon find out.
    Jacob Rees Mogg is now the clear frontrunner to be the unite the right candidate in 2029 if both Farage and Kemi/Cleverly lose.

    Mogg is likely to return to the Commons soon in a by election in his old seat
    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/04/06/uk-governing-party-suspends-mp-dan-norris-after-rape-arrest_6739879_4.html
    I don't think even JRM could possibly believe that. But who might fill the role is an interesting question.
    No current Tories will ever accept being led by anyone now in Reform and no current Reformers will accept being led by anyone in the Tories except perhaps JRM.

    So logic leads to Mogg if Reform and the Tories both lose the next general election
    If you think Mogg is the answer than you are in a world of your own
    If you want a candidate to unite the right as Corbyn united the left then Mogg's your man!
    I do not want to have anything to do with Farage/Jenrick/Braverman and the other re-treads

    I do not want to unite the conservative party with the far right Trump tribute act that is Farage and his cult
    Jacob isn't in Reform, he is still a Tory.

    The next GE will now be a fight to the death for who will control the right in UK politics, whichever of Farage and Reform or Kemi/Cleverly and the Tories wins most seats will be the winner. If Farage then eventually the rump Tories will be taken over by Reform anyway unless we get PR.

    If Kemi/Cleverly but they lose the next GE then Rees Mogg has his chance as the only Tory who can squeeze Reform back into its box
    There was a similar fight to the death over who would control the left in UK politics between Labour and the SDP/Alliance in 1983.

    Labour won and the SDP ended up becoming the centrist LDs
    Yes, as I've said on here many times, the Falklands War didn't just secure Mrs Thatcher's legacy - it also secured Labour's position as the credible alternative Government and began the long journey back which ended with the Blair landslide.

    You are wrong about the SDP - some SDP members joined the LDs in 1989, others remained with David Owen, others found their way over to both the Conservative and Labour parties and arguably took both over and moved both toward a semi-social democratic positioning. Anyone remember Danny Finkelstein?
    It helped secure Thatcher's position but even at the end of the Falklands War although the Tories got a big bounce some polls still had the SDP ahead of Labour. Indeed even in the 1983 general election campaign most polls had Labour and the SDP neck and neck for second place
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1983_United_Kingdom_general_election#1982

    Officially the SDP and most of its members and MPs joined with the Liberals to form the Social and Liberal Democrats in 1988 which became the LDs in 1989. A few ex SDP went Labour or Tory but they were the minority
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    Kemi has stated she disagrees with the councils and wants the elections to take place

    If the councillors disagree they have a choice - accept or resign
    That is four of the seven county councils in England controlled by the Conservatives (sure, there are some minority unitary authorities on top). Three of those four that made applications are majority held.

    Which poison do you prefer to believe? That they all made such a controversial application without first telling CCHQ? That that they did and Kemi said no, but she was outvoted and they did it anyway? That they were told no and did it anyway?

    Or that she thought they’d get away with it, given all the Labour councils doing the same thing, and she didn’t much fancy losing them all to Recorm.
    @HYUFD answered your question at 7.18
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,951
    edited 7:52PM
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
    Are the elections being postponed not for the actual authorities but for the Shadow authorites which will replace them in 2027? Surrey are holding elections for the new East and West Surrey Councils in May which will exist in Shadow form until taking over when the County Council and eleven District/Borough Councils are abolished at the end of March 2027.

    The last County Council elections in Surrey, Norfolk, Suffolk and the two Sussexes were in 2021 - that means if a further delay of a year occurs, the County Councillors elected then will still be in post in March 2028 which is absurd.

    I do think Government indecision, not helped by the clear out of Ministers at DCLOG following the exit of Angela Rayner, hasn't helped.
    No for the actual authorities.

    Shadow authority elections are the new unitary council elections with those authorities taking full office the following year when the new Mayor of the authority is elected
    I'm not sure that's true - Norfolk, Suffolk, East and West Sussex were on the original Devolution Priority List from early 2025 and as a result the elections scheduled for May 2025 were postponed. Surrey did its consultation last summer and presented two submissions (one for a two Unitary solution and another for a three Unitary solution) last August but, and as I said before, this may well have been connected to the departure of Angela Rayner and the entire Ministerial team from DCLOG, a decision from Government as to which option was to be implemented wasn't forthcoming until November.

    For Norfolk, the statutory consultation wasn't launched until 20 November last year - why did it take so long? I can understand postponing the 2026 elections, what I can't understand is why the 2025 elections were postponed if the consultation wasn't due to start for another six months?

    My understanding on the Shadow authorities is they become legal entities on 1st April 2027 as they will then take over the financial and legal duties and accountabilities of the County and District/Borough Councils all of which will cease to exist.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,432
    edited 7:54PM
    These "gotchas", tweets from politicians about politicians that have now joined their party aren't usually as bad as they seem, but Reform have a lot of them

    Maybe the lesson is you don't have to be antagonistic ALL the time, especially towards people you pretty much agree with

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    Jul 15, 2025
    The British government learnt of the data leak in August 2023.

    24k Afghans secretly granted asylum, costing British taxpayers up to £7 billion.

    The government covered it up.

    Who was in government?

    Home Secretary: Suella Braverman

    Immigration Minister: Robert Jenrick


    https://x.com/ZiaYusufUK/status/1945140968690266573?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    edited 7:58PM
    isam said:

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    Jul 15, 2025
    The British government learnt of the data leak in August 2023.

    24k Afghans secretly granted asylum, costing British taxpayers up to £7 billion.

    The government covered it up.

    Who was in government?

    Home Secretary: Suella Braverman

    Immigration Minister: Robert Jenrick


    https://x.com/ZiaYusufUK/status/1945140968690266573?s=20

    Zia and BJ still aren't making nice then.

    Edit- Sorry not noticed old tweet. I presume all best buddies now.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,415
    isam said:

    These "gotchas", tweets from politicians about politicians that have now joined their party aren't usually as bad as they seem, but Reform have a lot of them

    Maybe the lesson is you don't have to be antagonistic ALL the time, especially towards people you pretty much agree with

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    Jul 15, 2025
    The British government learnt of the data leak in August 2023.

    24k Afghans secretly granted asylum, costing British taxpayers up to £7 billion.

    The government covered it up.

    Who was in government?

    Home Secretary: Suella Braverman

    Immigration Minister: Robert Jenrick


    https://x.com/ZiaYusufUK/status/1945140968690266573?s=20

    They're reformed characters?!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,319
    edited 7:56PM
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    All those councils are reorganising to organise unitary elections next year, Kemi believes in localism and has left each council to make its own decision even if she personally would hold elections even if at taxpayer cost for 1 year post councillors who are heading for redundancy next year
    Are the elections being postponed not for the actual authorities but for the Shadow authorites which will replace them in 2027? Surrey are holding elections for the new East and West Surrey Councils in May which will exist in Shadow form until taking over when the County Council and eleven District/Borough Councils are abolished at the end of March 2027.

    The last County Council elections in Surrey, Norfolk, Suffolk and the two Sussexes were in 2021 - that means if a further delay of a year occurs, the County Councillors elected then will still be in post in March 2028 which is absurd.

    I do think Government indecision, not helped by the clear out of Ministers at DCLOG following the exit of Angela Rayner, hasn't helped.
    No for the actual authorities.

    Shadow authority elections are the new unitary council elections with those authorities taking full office the following year when the new Mayor of the authority is elected
    I'm not sure that's true - Norfolk, Suffolk, East and West Sussex were on the original Devolution Priority List from early 2025 and as a result the elections scheduled for May 2025 were postponed. Surrey did its consultation last summer and presented two submissions (one for a two Unitary solution and another for a three Unitary solution) last August but, and as I said before, this may well have been connected to the departure of Angela Rayner and the entire Ministerial team from DCLOG, a decision from Government as to which option was to be implemented wasn't forthcoming until November.

    For Norfolk, the statutory consultation wasn't launched until 20 November last year - why did it take so long? I can understand postponing the 2026 elections, what I can't understand is why the 2025 elections were postponed if the consultation wasn't due to start for another six months?

    My understanding on the Shadow authorities is they become legal entities on 1st April 2027 as they will then take over the financial and legal duties and accountabilities of the County and District/Borough Councils all of which will cease to exist.
    Exactly, so in Spring 2027 every district and county councillor elected this May in those new unitary areas is made redundant, unless they have been elected to the new unitary councils next year
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,532

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    Kemi has stated she disagrees with the councils and wants the elections to take place

    If the councillors disagree they have a choice - accept or resign
    That is four of the seven county councils in England controlled by the Conservatives (sure, there are some minority unitary authorities on top). Three of those four that made applications are majority held.

    Which poison do you prefer to believe? That they all made such a controversial application without first telling CCHQ? That that they did and Kemi said no, but she was outvoted and they did it anyway? That they were told no and did it anyway?

    Or that she thought they’d get away with it, given all the Labour councils doing the same thing, and she didn’t much fancy losing them all to Recorm.
    @HYUFD answered your question at 7.18
    He did. And I think it’s party spin and poor party spin at that. Having such a self righteous belief in localism that you are prepared to let Tory candidates cancel elections even though you think it’s an affront to democracy? And it being nothing to do with them being odds on to lose said elections? Pull the other one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    edited 8:06PM
    China hacked the mobile phones of senior officials in Downing Street for several years, The Telegraph can disclose...Spying operation targeted senior government members, including aides to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/01/26/china-hacked-downing-street-phones-for-years/

    Shocked I tell you, shocked. And I bet it was super easy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,089
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    I had a very smart and earnest American today tell me they thought Trump was going to use the military to crush voting in democrat leaning districts in the mid terms. They didn’t mean it in a “that mad trump, it wouldn’t surprise me” way. They really sincerely believe that it is going to happen and that we are living through the death of American democracy.

    Meanwhile, in the UK we have the Tories and Labour colluding to cancel our own midterms and they don’t even have to brandish a baton, yet alone an assault rifle.

    Anyway back to that fascist autocrat in waiting Nigel Farage… if Katie Lam defects, it will no doubt be quickly characterised here as good riddance to a careerist wrongun that will say and do anything to retain her seat. Maybe. But it would also be pretty hard to convince that the Tory’s remain a credible national party.

    You do know [ maybe you don't] that the Lib Dems AND Conservatives have joined together in the HOL to get the decision reversed ?
    The following Tory run councils all formally requested that the national govt allow them to cancel of elections in their area: East Sussex, Harlow, Norfolk, Suffolk, West Sussex.

    Unless you can inform me otherwise, none of those councillors have had the Tory whip removed for this affront to democracy. Odd given the gusto that Badenoch showed for removing the whip from her main opponent, apparently on the grounds of “dishonesty, disloyalty and for undermining trust in politics”.

    I can only conclude the applications made by those councils were made with the acquiescence of CCHQ.
    Kemi has stated she disagrees with the councils and wants the elections to take place

    If the councillors disagree they have a choice - accept or resign
    That is four of the seven county councils in England controlled by the Conservatives (sure, there are some minority unitary authorities on top). Three of those four that made applications are majority held.

    Which poison do you prefer to believe? That they all made such a controversial application without first telling CCHQ? That that they did and Kemi said no, but she was outvoted and they did it anyway? That they were told no and did it anyway?

    Or that she thought they’d get away with it, given all the Labour councils doing the same thing, and she didn’t much fancy losing them all to Recorm.
    @HYUFD answered your question at 7.18
    He did. And I think it’s party spin and poor party spin at that. Having such a self righteous belief in localism that you are prepared to let Tory candidates cancel elections even though you think it’s an affront to democracy? And it being nothing to do with them being odds on to lose said elections? Pull the other one.
    As far as I am concerned Kemi is fighting in the HOL with the Lib Dems to stop the cancellations which doesnt fit your narrative

    And at least I do not associate with the UK Trump tribute act
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,390

    isam said:

    These "gotchas", tweets from politicians about politicians that have now joined their party aren't usually as bad as they seem, but Reform have a lot of them

    Maybe the lesson is you don't have to be antagonistic ALL the time, especially towards people you pretty much agree with

    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK
    ·
    Jul 15, 2025
    The British government learnt of the data leak in August 2023.

    24k Afghans secretly granted asylum, costing British taxpayers up to £7 billion.

    The government covered it up.

    Who was in government?

    Home Secretary: Suella Braverman

    Immigration Minister: Robert Jenrick


    https://x.com/ZiaYusufUK/status/1945140968690266573?s=20

    They're reformed characters?!
    Didn't Farage talk about a degree of repentance being required... possibly when Jenrick defected?

    However, it's easy to imagine people like Zia being pissed off, for all that he's an idiot playing with his "my first national politician" set. There are people who worked for Reform when it was still really unfashionable, and now they are being joined/pushed aside by a bunch of oppotunistic Johnny-come-latelys who have failed in the past but still have "public profile".

    If only there was a comparable example on the left.

    (Disembodied voice: He thinks there's a really obvious comparable example on the left.)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,679
    "Trump and Walz hold 'productive call' as Minnesota governor pushes for 'impartial' inquiry into shootings"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3ve67195gyt
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,452
    https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/2015835762810397066/photo/1

    Matt. Genius. Apologies if already posted.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,564
    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/MattCartoonist/status/2015835762810397066/photo/1

    Matt. Genius. Apologies if already posted.

    AI might be coming for most of our jobs, but Matt is definitely safe as houses.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,415
    edited 8:11PM

    China hacked the mobile phones of senior officials in Downing Street for several years, The Telegraph can disclose...Spying operation targeted senior government members, including aides to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/01/26/china-hacked-downing-street-phones-for-years/

    Shocked I tell you, shocked. And I bet it was super easy.

    They probably listened to the drivel for a while and then shut it down in bemused disgust.
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